Ike Ibeabuchi vs. Klitschko Bros.

[Luigi1985]

How would the Nigerian does against both, Wladimir and Vitaly?

[SuzieQ49]

Ike KO over Wlad, Wlads weak chin combined with his poor stamina and lack of mental toughness would catch up to him in this fight. Wlad does have a chance with his tremendous offense, but I see Ike being aggresive and landing on Klit and finishing him off

Ike decision Vitali- I think Ike would outwork and outslug Vitali, who had poor defense, and his bad habit of keep his left too low would catch up to him in this fight. I wouldnt rule out vitali quitting on his stool if the going got tough by late rounds

[brooklyn1550]

It's tough to say how he'd fare against athletic, tall heavyweights who knew how to use their reach. Simply because he never faced one.

I could see a fight between he and Wladimir going two ways. 1) Wladimir outboxes him from long range, outjabbing him, and holding when Ibeabuchi gets closer. 2) Ibeabuchi is able to get inside of Wladimir, outworks him, roughs him up, hurts him, and stops him. I might lean toward number 2 due to the fact Peter was competitive with Wladimir and was able to land clean shots; and Peter, while almost/just as powerful, has no where near the technical skill, footwork, or stamina. I'm not sure how Wladimir would hold up, mentally, against a fighter with the mental strength of Ibeabuchi.

Vitali could do the same and outbox Ibeabuchi, but he tended to get in slugfests. Really a toss up fight in my opinion.

[Seamus]

Wlad KO6. Vit UD12.

Saw Ike fight in person and never bought the bandwagon.

Another "what if" guy that everyone on this board is so in love with.

[brooklyn1550]

Wlad KO6. Vit UD12.

Saw Ike fight in person and never bought the bandwagon.

Another "what if" guy that everyone on this board is so in love with.

Wladimir didn't floor Samuel Peter and didn't stop Sultan Ibragimov. But he's going to knock Ibeabuchi out in 6?

[JohnThomas1]

Wlad KO6. Vit UD12.

Saw Ike fight in person and never bought the bandwagon.

Another "what if" guy that everyone on this board is so in love with.

Yeah, half fair points. Wlad and Vit don't exactly get my blood boiling, but Ikes claim to fame is beating a Tua who never exactly fulfilled his promise or became as good as thought, and i still don't think Ike beat Tua anyways! I'll say he has a helluva chance vs the Klit's because he can take a heckuva punch as well as hit quite hard himself. He is a chance of stopping Wlad and might be busy enough to take Vit close. Hard to say, he is far less proven and accessible than the two brothers.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Ike KO over Wlad, Wlads weak chin combined with his poor stamina and lack of mental toughness would catch up to him in this fight. Wlad does have a chance with his tremendous offense, but I see Ike being aggresive and landing on Klit and finishing him off

Ike decision Vitali- I think Ike would outwork and outslug Vitali, who had poor defense, and his bad habit of keep his left too low would catch up to him in this fight. I wouldnt rule out vitali quitting on his stool if the going got tough by late rounds

Agreed, a person has to dig up one of the greats to beat Ike. He puts me in mind of a heayweight version of Evander Holyfield when he was at cruiserweight. A machine with that up on your toes style that has crazy stamina and punching power. Not to mention he was one of the most technically polished heavyweights that i have ever seen. All of this talent wasted for a maid at a hotel room.

[JohnThomas1]

Agreed, a person has to dig up one of the greats to beat Ike. He puts me in mind of a heayweight version of Evander Holyfield when he was at cruiserweight. A machine with that up on your toes style that has crazy stamina and punching power. Not to mention he was one of the most technically polished heavyweights that i have ever seen. All of this talent wasted for a maid at a hotel room.

Let me guess, you'd take him over Tyson too! :lol:

[slicksouthpaw16]

Let me guess, you'd take him over Tyson too! :lol:
Not only would Ike stop Tyson, but The Tua that Ike beat would also stop him as well. Tyson can not take what these guys have to dish out and you Tyson fans just continue to ignore that and go ahead and pick him to beat some of the toughest legends like Ali/Foreman/Liston/ ect. Its bordaline stalking the way you Tyson huggers go on about his carzy power and footspeed, totally ignoring his lack of heart.:lol: He would mentally fall apart. Ibeabuchi was far tougher and skilled than ANY version of Tyson. Again, picture Holyfield at cruiser weight and there you have it. Ike was a bigger version of Holyfield.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Tyson did not like to be pushed backward because it throws him off of his game. Ike and Tua are both come foward power houses that are far tougher, can match him in punching power, better chins and can take his shots and keep coming, Tyson can not handle all of that heat.

The smaller Holyfield was able to push Tyson backwards and you seen the result there. He completly fell apart. Wait let me quess what the Tyson fans will say, ''Keven Rooney wasn't in his corner''',:lol: ''Evander didn't beat peak Tyson'' or ''youza hater'' LOL. Its just hesterical.

[JohnThomas1]

Not only would Ike stop Tyson, but The Tua that Ike beat would also stop him as well.

Oh, so not only ike but Tua also :lol:

Tyson can not take what these guys have to dish out and you Tyson fans just continue to ignore that and go ahead and pick him to beat some of the toughest legends like Ali/Foreman/Liston/ ect.

But you're totally balanced by freely picking the likes of Tua and Ike and lord only knows who else to beat him without fail :rofl

Never mind them handling what Tyson dishes out, that doesn't matter of course :nut

Its bordaline stalking the way you Tyson huggers go on about his carzy power and footspeed, totally ignoring his lack of heart.:lol:

Oh for sure, he was the heavyweight version of Willie Pep for power and Butterbean for footspeed LOL

He would mentally fall apart.

Suuuuure he would, never mind the other two never won a title let alone beat a few top fighters.

Ibeabuchi was far tougher and skilled than ANY version of Tyson.

Man, when it rains it pours!! :happy

Again, picture Holyfield at cruiser weight and there you have it. Ike was a bigger version of Holyfield.

Holyfield was far more skillful, and as for proven? We need not even go there

:good

[slicksouthpaw16]

Oh, so not only ike but Tua also :lol:



But you're totally balanced by freely picking the likes of Tua and Ike and lord only knows who else to beat him without fail :rofl

Never mind them handling what Tyson dishes out, that doesn't matter of course :nut



Oh for sure, he was the heavyweight version of Willie Pep for power and Butterbean for footspeed LOL



Suuuuure he would, never mind the other two never won a title let alone beat a few top fighters.



Man, when it rains it pours!! :happy



Holyfield was far more skillful, and as for proven? We need not even go there

:good
Im my opinion Tua has better one punch knockout power than Tyson does because he gets better leverage on his pucnhes. Ike and Tua both can take what Tyson has to dish out because they both went 12 hard rounds taking power punches from each other so their heart is proven. Everytime Tyson took a heart test, he has always failed. He has always lacked heart, its just that his managing team did a great job at matching him against lesser opponents when he was in his peak. Avoiding real competition like Bowe, Witherspoon, Mercer ect. :-(

[slicksouthpaw16]

Yeah man, it sure seems like Tyson would blow out real opponents like these the way he does those other bartenders. These guys sure look like punks don't they?:nut

rQStB2IRWOo

[JohnThomas1]

Tyson did not like to be pushed backward because it throws him off of his game. Ike and Tua are both come foward power houses that are far tougher, can match him in punching power, better chins and can take his shots and keep coming, Tyson can not handle all of that heat.


Your arguement is yet again one sided. Tua and Ike haven't done enough to prove they can handle the Tyson heat that they will be walking into. Handling each others is one thing, it's not as if they are anything near ATG's. Tua sure got gun shy vs Lennox Lewis, no?

The smaller Holyfield was able to push Tyson backwards and you seen the result there. He completly fell apart. Wait let me quess what the Tyson fans will say, ''Keven Rooney wasn't in his corner''',:lol: ''Evander didn't beat peak Tyson'' or ''youza hater'' LOL. Its just hesterical.

Holyfield wasn't so small by the time he fought Tyson, and nor was he weak. It's not like Tyson hasn't beaten some big strong men. Holyfield, even at this stage of Tyson took some very serious leather and i'd like to see those other two take that, and better still his leather from around the Berbick fight.

Obviously you would say the Tyson who fought Holyfield was peak Tyson? Right?

[Thread Stealer]

Im my opinion Tua has better one punch knockout power than Tyson does because he gets better leverage on his pucnhes. Ike and Tua both can take what Tyson has to dish out because they both went 12 hard rounds taking power punches from each other so their heart is proven. Everytime Tyson took a heart test, he has always failed. He has always lacked heart, its just that his managing team did a great job at matching him against lesser opponents when he was in his peak. Avoiding real competition like Bowe, Witherspoon, Mercer ect. :-(

At Tyson's peak, the only guy of these 3 who had made a mark was Spoon, who was basically blackballed after defying King.

[JohnThomas1]

Im my opinion Tua has better one punch knockout power than Tyson does because he gets better leverage on his pucnhes.


Tua is a huge hitter and he and Tyson would be close in one punch power, but Tyson kills him for overall offensive prowess.

Ike and Tua both can take what Tyson has to dish out because they both went 12 hard rounds taking power punches from each other so their heart is proven.

Tyson's a far better offensive force than either. One of the finest ever, offensively - don't even debate it. Going 12 with each other isn't akin to going in with Tyson.

Everytime Tyson took a heart test, he has always failed.

Tyson trudged on for round after round against Douglas when he was getting pummelled, even dropped him late. I'd hardly say peak Tyson wouldn't hang in there, hell he hung in there against Lewis for ages.

He has always lacked heart, its just that his managing team did a great job at matching him against lesser opponents when he was in his peak. Avoiding real competition like Bowe, Witherspoon, Mercer ect. :-(

What a crock of shit, Witherspoon :lol:

If he didn't fight Berbick or Thomas you'd be naming them! :lol:

Witherspoon got smashed by the Crusher in one round son.


Chicken Bowe wasn't exactly lining up, and the timing was awkward with jail etc.

Mercer? WTF? :lol:

[JohnThomas1]

At Tyson's peak, the only guy of these 3 who had made a mark was Spoon, who was basically blackballed after defying King.

And that's about it - King wasn't letting Spoon fight for any title, and not due to fear.

[mcvey]

How would the Nigerian does against both, Wladimir and Vitaly?
I like Ike! I pick Ike to beat Wlad ,his work rate and stamina ,plus his durability would get him inside ,and once there I think he would break up the tall man. Vitaly would be a sterner task .Ike could win but would ship a lot of heavy leather to get there Vitaly is more dura ble than his Brother,but stiffer and slower,he would not be comfortable with the pace Ike would set ,but his long shots would give Ike something to think about.Vitaly by split dec.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Tua is a huge hitter and he and Tyson would be close in one punch power, but Tyson kills him for overall offensive prowess.



Tyson's a far better offensive force than either. One of the finest ever, offensively - don't even debate it. Going 12 with each other isn't akin to going in with Tyson.



Tyson trudged on for round after round against Douglas when he was getting pummelled, even dropped him late. I'd hardly say peak Tyson wouldn't hang in there, hell he hung in there against Lewis for ages.



What a crock of shit, Witherspoon :lol:

If he didn't fight Berbick or Thomas you'd be naming them! :lol:

Witherspoon got smashed by the Crusher in one round son.


Chicken Bowe wasn't exactly lining up, and the timing was awkward with jail etc.

Mercer? WTF? :lol:

:lol: LOL! Bowe, Mercer, and Witherspoon would be Tyson's toughest test and best opponents that he has fought are you kidding me? Tyson has never fought fighters that would be live underdogs like them. Matter of fact. Witherspoon on his best day would have a decent chance at upsetting prime Tyson. I personally wouldn't favor Witherspoon over Tyson but a few friends of mine would. He was very underated. Mercer would have a chance at out lasting Tyson. Tyson would of course sweep the early rounds until Tyson starts to lost confidence because of a tougher guy with power is still there taking his best stuff and throwing back. Simlar to the Mercer/Morrison fight. Tyson has never fought a real threat. Bowe did something that Tyson was scared to do and that was fighting a prime Holyfield. Bowe even beat Evander in his prime, Tyson was knocked out by an older rustier version of Evander. and please, if you bring up that past his prime stuff, i will just laugh, again.:lol: People tend to forget that Evander was further over the hill than Tyson was. He had been knocked out by Riddock Bowe, loss to Michael Moorer and had delt with life threatning heart problems. The only loss that Tyson had on his record was to Douglas..lol.



Also, Don King set up that Witherspoon/Smith BS. Witherspoon wasn't even hurt and the ref jumped in and stopped the fight. It was similar to the Tyson/Ruddock quick stoppage. Don King as always paid off referee's to stop fights for him, ust like in the Lewis/MCcall fight.

[JohnThomas1]

:lol: LOL! Bowe, Mercer, and Witherspoon would be Tyson's toughest test and best opponents that he has fought are you kidding me?

Bowe would be a very dangerous underdog, Witherspoon a heavy underdog, and Mercer a chuckle.

Tyson has never fought fighters that would be live underdogs like them. Matter of fact.

Oh bullshit. Spinks would have been stronger odds to beat Tyson than at least two of those three, possibly the lot. Little doubt you'll attack Spinks to bits, but the facts are he was considered a great chance by many and picked by quite a few top experts as well. Your three amigo's would mostly not have this support.

Witherspoon on his best day would have a decent chance at upsetting prime Tyson.

He would have a very small one, that's all. Tho a fan he substancially way too much support nowadays and muchly lives off his effort vs a declining Holmes who oft fought down to his opponents.

I personally wouldn't favor Witherspoon over Tyson but a few friends of mine would.

No doubt bookies love them.

He was very underated.

Not at all, if anything he might be overrated.

Mercer would have a chance at out lasting Tyson. Tyson would of course sweep the early rounds until Tyson starts to lost confidence because of a tougher guy with power is still there taking his best stuff and throwing back. Simlar to the Mercer/Morrison fight.

Hell, Mercer couldn't even outlast and finish the better than a Holmes with one foot in the grave! :lol:

You've fallen to the shallow view Tyson succumbs anytime you take him into the later rounds. He went hard early vs Bonecrusher and Tucker before pacing himself and never fatiguing bad at all. Just because a great fighter in Holyfield could wear down a post peak Tyson doesn't mean average fighters like Mercer are going to turn the trick. The gap between a Mercer and Holyfield is bigger than the grand canyon, besides the fact Mercer would be facing a better version of Tyson.

Did you answer my question whether you consider the Tyson that fought Holyfield to be peak or did you duck that one?

Tyson has never fought a real threat.

I think you might actually fit into the hater bracket now we are getting deeper.

Bowe did something that Tyson was scared to do and that was fighting a prime Holyfield.

Yes, Tyson set himself up for rape so he could go to jail and avoid Holyfield :nut

Bowe even beat Evander in his prime, Tyson was knocked out by an older rustier version of Evander.

Yeah, it was peak Tyson too :rofl

Bowe seemed to be a stylistic nightmare for Holyfield, and IMO Holyfield is a shocker for Tyson too.

and please, if you bring up that past his prime stuff, i will just laugh, again.:lol:

Well grow some balls and answer my question in a straightforward many so you can humour us even more

Do you consider Tyson peak when he fought Holyfield?

It's not exactly hard to decipher the question...

People tend to forget that Evander was further over the hill than Tyson was.

Debatable. You sit on any negative Tyson view because you hate the guy, but i'd contend this performance is as good as any of Holyfields ever.

He had been knocked out by Riddock Bowe, loss to Michael Moorer and had delt with life threatning heart problems. The only loss that Tyson had on his record was to Douglas..lol.


Yeah, never mind Tysons 4 years in jail :rofl

Also, Don King set up that Witherspoon/Smith BS. Witherspoon wasn't even hurt and the ref jumped in and stopped the fight. It was similar to the Tyson/Ruddock quick stoppage. Don King as always paid off referee's to stop fights for him, ust like in the Lewis/MCcall fight.

Proof and source?

[ChrisPontius]

I would pick both Klitschko's to win by decision. Of course, Ike has a good punchers chance against Wlad. But i think Wlad will stick, move and hold like he did against Peter. Ike never had to search for Tua, who is basically a one-handed fighter, and i still thought he (Ibeabuchi) lost that fight.

He still did demolish Byrd, but so did Wlad. And he didn't lose rounds in doing so. Ike never had to deal with someone who had his footwork, speed and sense of range. He had a very close fight with a journeyman named Wilson.

He never fought anyone like that. If Foreman went to prison after the Norton fight, we'd think he'd annihilate boxers who he had to chase, too.


Gotta add though, The President was an awesome physical specimen with a load of talent and that makes it hard to pick against him. But there's a lot of "what if's" about him and experience tells us that a fighter can look immortal during the first few fights of his career but soon down the road, something's gonna give. Frazier looked immortal after FOTC. Foreman did after his fights with Frazier and Norton. Tyson did after Spinks. Bowe did after Holyfield I. If they retired after said fights, i'd have trouble picking against them in fights, but as we know, weaknesses surfaced for all of them, it just took a few fights to see them because they were so good.

[Bummy Davis]

I would pick a prime and injury free Vitali ove IKE, I was impressed with IKE (BYRD KO) and the win over Tua could have gone either way but he showed he had whiskers but a tall awkward Vital, I think would outpoint him. Vlad (we know his weaknesses in the past) could also do it but he must stay focused and use the Jab, Tua fought an in fight with IKE and so did Byrd and a lot of that was because that is where IKE wanted to fight but I think Vlad could keep him at the end of the jab with a few right hand in place to keep IKE honest. I liked IKE as a contender and thought he presented the best challange for Lennox Lewis but he did show a lot of mental weakness and it may have been exposed in a fight with Lennox, we will never know. He looked like a strong Jeffries type with better than decent ring movement, he looked solid but the Mind bothers me and he showed that flaw outside the ring

[Sardu]

Does he have to fight them both at once? Okay then Wlad slaps Ibeabuchi's hand down while Vitaly thows out his shoulder trying to end it with a huge right hand. Now that Vitaly has bowed out with an injury it is just Wlad and Ike in there now. Between rounds Ike sexually assaults the ring card girl whom he confuses with a Las Vegas escort/entertainer. Ike does not hear the bell for round two and Wlad manages to slap his hands away from the stripper. Ike is enraged and it throws him off his gameplan. Wlad outboxes him.


Vitaly retires on stool after first round - Ibeabuchi TKO 1 after almost being disqualified assaulting ring girl.

Wlad UD 12 Ike

[PowerPuncher]

Both Klitchko's have 1 thing in common and that is they are poor inside fighters. Ike would need to close the gap throwing right counters and make it an inside fight working the body and hooking.

Ike Kos Wlad mid rounds - Wlad wins the early rounds but Ike's compact punches and bodywork beggin to have an effect and he stops Wlad as he turns up the heat in the mid rounds as Wlad slows

Ike Kos Vitali late - Vitali's defense is leaning back and against a pressure fighter who is an excellent inside fighter will get backed up and worked over. I see the early rounds been close but Vitali's tendency to use a sloppy leaning back style will catch up with him in the late rounds. This would be close but Ike's strength and stamina will tell late to score a late KO/TKO. It may go the distance.

[PowerPuncher]

Oh and if you want to talk Tyson-Ibeauchi piss off and make a thread about it

[JohnThomas1]

Oh and if you want to talk Tyson-Ibeauchi piss off and make a thread about it

Wtf suddenly gave you the illusion of being somebody of high importance or standing?

[PowerPuncher]

Wtf suddenly gave you the illusion of being somebody of high importance or standing?

Your mamma

[JohnThomas1]

Your mamma

Nah, she knows a germ when she sees one

:good

[PowerPuncher]

Nah, she knows a germ when she sees one

:good

Thats not a nice thing to say about your mammas vaginal hygene

[Seamus]

Ike is another "what-if" fighter whose greatest achievement was having his career cut mercifully short before his lack of skill and ability was exposed.

[PowerPuncher]

Wlad KO6. Vit UD12.

Saw Ike fight in person and never bought the bandwagon.

Another "what if" guy that everyone on this board is so in love with.

Ike was more proven than Vitali with 2 better wins on his record than Vitali in his few fights so if anyone's a 'what if guy' its Vitali not Ike

Seeing Ike in person doesnt make your judgement more valid than if you saw him on TV, but against who and where did you see him out of interest?

[Seamus]

Emerald Queen Casino. Sloppy, strong heavyweight who was wide open for counters if the opponent was strong and skilled enough. Byrd was not the former; Tua was not the latter.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Bowe would be a very dangerous underdog, Witherspoon a heavy underdog, and Mercer a chuckle.



Oh bullshit. Spinks would have been stronger odds to beat Tyson than at least two of those three, possibly the lot. Little doubt you'll attack Spinks to bits, but the facts are he was considered a great chance by many and picked by quite a few top experts as well. Your three amigo's would mostly not have this support.
Think about it, Spinks was a true blown up light heavyweight great that was also past his prime when Tyson beat him. He was not a true heayweight at all. Tyson dodged true heayweights that were in their prime because they would be too much for him. I am not taking nothing away from Tyson but you have to admit that Spinks was too small. Would Tyson blow out Witherspoon, Bowe or Mercer the way he did Spinks? No, he wouldn't. These guys were true young heavyweights that were in their peak and Tyson wanted no part of them.

I would also favor Bowe over any Tyson. He was an offensive machine that had the offensive ability, toughness, chin and heart to out last Tyson and get him in the later rounds. The version of Bowe that fought Holyfield the first time beats Tyson.




He would have a very small one, that's all. Tho a fan he substancially way too much support nowadays and muchly lives off his effort vs a declining Holmes who oft fought down to his opponents.



No doubt bookies love them.



Not at all, if anything he might be overrated.
Styles makes fights. Mercer was also a green contender at the time. When Tyson fought Larry, he was already a champion and Holmes was also ring rusted. He actually had a few fights to prepare him for Mercer. These are not excuses, just facts. Mercer WAS green and Holmes WAS actually prepared for him.

Witherspoon is barley mention as a good heavyweight today so how is he overrated. You Tyson fans never give anyone credit that would have given Tyson a hard fight, if not pull of the upset. There is no point in explaining to you fans because you will not listen and just continue to call him one of the greatest. I would just repeat myself over and over again.



Hell, Mercer couldn't even outlast and finish the better than a Holmes with one foot in the grave! :lol:
read above

You've fallen to the shallow view Tyson succumbs anytime you take him into the later rounds. He went hard early vs Bonecrusher and Tucker before pacing himself and never fatiguing bad at all. Just because a great fighter in Holyfield could wear down a post peak Tyson doesn't mean average fighters like Mercer are going to turn the trick. The gap between a Mercer and Holyfield is bigger than the grand canyon, besides the fact Mercer would be facing a better version of Tyson.

Did you answer my question whether you consider the Tyson that fought Holyfield to be peak or did you duck that one?
WOW..lol he went hard with James Smith so now he would go hard with Ibeabuchi, Tua, Mercer, Bowe, Witherspoon ect? All of the opponents that Tyson ducked. Tony Tucker? James Smith? Are you serious? They were never even elite fighters, let alone being on the level of any of the fighters that i mentioned. They were decent C class hand picked opponents that did not test Tyson's heart. Mercer also lost a close decision to the same version of Holyfield that out classed Tyson. Tyson was dominated and forced out of his game by a tougher guy.

Also, yes Tyson was past his peak when he fought Evander. My point was that Holyfield was even more over the hill than Tyson was. He had lost to Bowe twice and one of those were by knockout, and he also lost to Michael Moorer and delt with life threatning heart problems.




I think you might actually fit into the hater bracket now we are getting deeper.



Yes, Tyson set himself up for rape so he could go to jail and avoid Holyfield :nut

Tyson also ducked prime Lennox and prime Holyfield even before he went to jail. The Tyson camp wouldn't have let him no where near real cometition. While Tyson was champion, what great or even elite fighter did he beat? Lennox was there, Evander was there, Mercer was there, Witherspoon was there, Bowe was there, and hell, even Morrison was sticking around.



Bowe seemed to be a stylistic nightmare for Holyfield, and IMO Holyfield is a shocker for Tyson too.


Debatable. You sit on any negative Tyson view because you hate the guy, but i'd contend this performance is as good as any of Holyfields ever.
Any tough come foward fighter is a stylistic nightmare for Tyson. Its good that you finally see it. Tyson would have recieved the same thing from Ike. He was a bigger version Holyfield. Watch him fight, damn. Im trying to educate you here kid. I don't hate Tyson, im stating nothing but facts and you Tyson fans can not handle it. Tyson was a good fighter in his prime and he will good against a fighter that is trying to move on him.

Don't expect me to reply to your respone to this thread because i will no longer waste my time in debates for close minded posters. I will be going in one big cirlce and there would be no significance. You wouldn't learn anything. Nothing matters to Tyson huggers other than his great punching power and hand speed. :rofl When i ask you about Tyson not showing heart, you will just say that Kevin Rooney was not in his corner, he was in jail, or he wasn't motivated..lol








Proof and source?
You want a source? Then Watch boxing.

[JohnThomas1]

Think about it, Spinks was a true blown up light heavyweight great that was also past his prime when Tyson beat him. He was not a true heayweight at all.

As predicted you've gone at Spinks. Hindsight is 20/20 but the fact remains Spinks was considered Tyson's biggest threat by almost everyone - that mattered. Tyson took him on. As for Spinks not being a true heavyweight, well Larry Holmes sure found out he could be an effective one. Bottom line - Tyson destroyed his most highly regarded challenger, heck he'd already knocked off a heap of top rated heavies by this stage.

Tyson dodged true heayweights that were in their prime because they would be too much for him. I am not taking nothing away from Tyson but you have to admit that Spinks was too small.
He wasn't too small against Holmes and as for Tyson ducking these supposed true Heavies - gimmee a break. He cut a swathe thru the division and the one or two he couldn't happen to fit in you claim he ducked. That's just ridiculous, utterly ridiculous.

Would Tyson blow out Witherspoon,Bowe or Mercer the way he did Spinks? No,he wouldn't.
You are talking durable men, one can't blow everyone out, and so what if not? The thing about Tyson is that he's such an offensive machine early he may well have blown one of more of these guys out, after all, he did to plenty of others. Berbick was damn durable and he didn't know if he was coming or going.

These guys were true young heavyweights that were in their peak and Tyson wanted no part of them.
Tyson flogged plenty of true heavyweights, Tucker, Bonecrusher, Williams, Berbick, Thomas yada yada. You are blinded by your hatred.

I would also favor Bowe over any Tyson. He was an offensive machine that had the offensive ability,toughness,chin and heart to out last Tyson and get him in the later rounds. The version of Bowe that fought Holyfield the first time beats Tyson.
I'd favour Tyson but it is indeed a fight i'd love to see. Bowe's an excellent fighter and if the timing was better this fight or Lewis would have defined his career over and above even Holyfield possibly


Styles makes fights. Mercer was also a green contender at the time.
You've got some real tickets on Mercer, personally i think him a solid contender and not much else. He had his moments, giving Lewis lots of trouble etc but he's no champ.

Here we go again with primes, you jump on Tyson fans for saying Tyson wasn't peak vs Holyfield and now you wriggle and squirm trying to find excuses for Mercer getting beat by a grandad. Mercer was 30yo and had beaten Cooper and Morrison in his last two fights so he sure wasn't too bad.

When Tyson fought Larry, he was already a champion and Holmes was also ring rusted. He actually had a few fights to prepare him for Mercer. These are not excuses, just facts. Mercer WAS green and Holmes WAS actually prepared for him.
The bottom line tho?

Holmes UD12 Mercer
Tyson TKO4 Holmes

Witherspoon is barley mention as a good heavyweight today so how is he overrated.
What circles do you hang in? :huh

You Tyson fans never give anyone credit that would have given Tyson a hard fight, if not pull of the upset. There is no point in explaining to you fans because you will not listen and just continue to call him one of the greatest. I would just repeat myself over and over again.
I give plenty credit, and i've already summised your matches. Witherspoon sits around Berbick and Thomas albeit with a little more offensive firepower at times but there's every chance he gets put away just like them. Hell, he might not even appear in shape, nothing new there - the surprise would be in he DID turn up in shape.

WOW..lol he went hard with James Smith so now he would go hard with Ibeabuchi, Tua, Mercer, Bowe, Witherspoon ect?

Well Mercer is bugger all better :lol:

But you run from my point, and that is Tyson isn't the self destructing impotent wally people like you make him out to be after 5 or so rounds.

All of the opponents that Tyson ducked. Tony Tucker? James Smith? Are you serious? They were never even elite fighters, let alone being on the level of any of the fighters that i mentioned. They were decent C class hand picked opponents that did not test Tyson's heart.
I think i need a shovel. C class? Tucker beat Douglas and was the other champ last time i looked. Smith beat plenty of decent guys too and hit like an absolute mule. How come you never name Berbick, Thomas and the rest?

Basically you're just going to say anyone Tyson beat was weak as piss and tear them down regardless. I am in a no win situation.

Mercer also lost a close decision to the same version of Holyfield that out classed Tyson. Tyson was dominated and forced out of his game by a tougher guy.

Yeah, Holyfield was really going to have the adrenaline flowing fighting Mercer lol.

Maybe Holyfield was still recoving from his heart attack you claim the fight before :lol:

Or was it an adverse reaction to roids? :hey

Also, yes Tyson was past his peak when he fought Evander.
Well why on earth do you keep mocking Tyson lovers on this very point?

My point was that Holyfield was even more over the hill than Tyson was.
That's in YOUR opinion, and it doesn't make Tyson fans wrong that Mike was past his prime as you yourself, after much avoiding, have finally admitted.

He had lost to Bowe twice and one of those were by knockout, and he also lost to Michael Moorer and delt with life threatning heart problems.
WEll look at the sheer amount of wrestlers that steroids kill, play with fire and risk getting burnt.

Tyson also ducked prime Lennox and prime Holyfield even before he went to jail. The Tyson camp wouldn't have let him no where near real cometition.
There was a bit of shuffling around and money exchanged, but i've seen much debated on both sides of the topic and really can't be arsed going deep. I know one thing, he wasn't avoiding Holyfield at the time. He'd been waiting ages for Holyfield to get comfortable at the weight and was looking forward to the money. I mean what on earth had Holyfield done to scare him? Went life and death with a Michael Dokes Tyson would have murdered? Dokes fought superbly on the night but was handicapped severely from years of drug abuse and age.

While Tyson was champion, what great or even elite fighter did he beat?
Well you run rampant around here telling us all what a great great fighter Sonny Liston was, so you tell me what elite or great fighter Liston beat? I'll mimick your attitude and say Patterson wasn't a true heavyweight - so what do you and Liston have left? What GREAT elite fighter did Holmes beat? Bob Foster? Joe Louis? The list goes on.

What Tyson did was mostly destroy a list of top contnders with a compellingness perhaps not seen ever before. It's not just who he beat, but also how he beat them.

How can you ram Liston's greatness down our throat when he too never beat an elite fighter via your standard of judging? We won't even go into you accusing Tyson of having no heart whilst Liston with 2 "quits" gets off scott free now :lol:

I'm a Liston fan, but your double standards toward Tyson have to be aired :good

Lennox was there, Evander was there, Mercer was there, Witherspoon was there, Bowe was there, and hell, even Morrison was sticking around.
Yes, but if he beat all of those and missed Berbick, Tucker and Crusher you'd be here extolling their virtues, Tucker was big and tall and Tyson was scared of him yada yada. You're bias is impossible.

Any tough come foward fighter is a stylistic nightmare for Tyson.
Rubbish. Berbick was tough as nails and sure came forward when he wasn't getting hammered into orbit. Most come forward fighters in history will be murdered by Tyson. GREAT come forward fighters, Foreman, Holyfield etc might be a different matter, but don't give me any tough mug coming forward will beat or trouble Tyson - simply ain't true.

Its good that you finally see it. Tyson would have recieved the same thing from Ike. He was a bigger version Holyfield. Watch him fight, damn. Im trying to educate you here kid. I don't hate Tyson, im stating nothing but facts and you Tyson fans can not handle it. Tyson was a good fighter in his prime and he will good against a fighter that is trying to move on him.
He couldn't even beat Tua, who couldn't even win a title!

Don't expect me to reply to your respone to this thread because i will no longer waste my time in debates for close minded posters. I will be going in one big cirlce and there would be no significance. You wouldn't learn anything. Nothing matters to Tyson huggers other than his great punching power and hand speed. :rofl When i ask you about Tyson not showing heart, you will just say that Kevin Rooney was not in his corner, he was in jail, or he wasn't motivated..lol
Hmmmmm, have you seen me mention Rooney even once in all this debate?

I've always said i believe peak Lewis and Holyfield would always beat Tyson, as well as quite a few others including Foreman and Holmes IMO. I stand by it every time the topic comes up. I'd certainly feel secure that you stand a lot closer to hater status than me to hugger. You are so blinded by bias you can't even give a single tidbit of balanced credit.
But yes, feel free not to waste your pearls on me i think i've more than seen and posted enough :good

You want a source? Then Watch boxing.
Everytime i ask you for proof of something you've boasted you have came up lame and impotent. Liston - Ali claims, Holmes - Cooney odds, books etc, you couldn't support a single one of them. Lots of hot air, with zero substance :oops:

[Nick Balsamo]

First, Ibeabuchi knocks Wlad out in an exciting fight. 5 rounds and it must be it. Ike is too strong and has a rock solid chin, he took David Tua's bomb for 12 rounds without flinching...Wlad is faster but he's been iced by lesser fighters. Ike puts him down.

Against Vitali it's a different fight. The older brother is more patient and intelligent fighter than his younger brother. If he keeps the fight on the outside, he may be able to win a decision. I give Ike 2 out of 3 anyways.

I believe the Ike we saw against Byrd and Tua would've beat the Lewis that faced Vitali.

[Marciano Frazier]

It's difficult to say based on Ibeabuchi's brief, 20-fight career. The only two opponents of serious world-class merit who he faced were Tua and Byrd, both of whom were of the shorter, smaller variety (in terms of dimensions, though Tua was heavy), one a swarmer and the other a slickster/mover. Both wildly different styles from either of the Klitschko brothers, who are tall, rangy boxer-punchers.

That said, based on what I've seen, I think Wlad cautiously boxes Ibeabuchi and takes a close-but-clear decision, and Vitali goes to war, likely going the distance and ending up razor-thin.

[janitor]

It's difficult to say based on Ibeabuchi's brief, 20-fight career. The only two opponents of serious world-class merit who he faced were Tua and Byrd, both of whom were of the shorter, smaller variety (in terms of dimensions, though Tua was heavy), one a swarmer and the other a slickster/mover. Both wildly different styles from either of the Klitschko brothers, who are tall, rangy boxer-punchers.


They were the best boxer and the best puncer in the division respectivley.

The only thing that could have prevented Ibeabuchi from ataining greatness is his fragile psychy.

[KobeIsGod]

Crazy Ike loses to both and Vitali would stop him. Ike was great at punching at a short, stationary target

[slicksouthpaw16]

Crazy Ike loses to both and Vitali would stop him. Ike was great at punching at a short, stationary target
Not true. He knocked out the elusive Chris Byrd and and was well ahead on points when he did it. How did he do that? Because he simply let his hands go in volume. Ike had the best stamina i have ever seen for heavyweight. Chris Byrd was one of the slickest southpaws that i have ever seen and was no where near a short stationary target. Hell, you can even make a case of Ike out boxing Byrd in the center of the ring as well and thats just insane. Its not like Chris Byrd was anybody, he went on to become a two time world champion after that loss.

Ibeabuchi vs Byrd

9jTGymMrvxU

[KobeIsGod]

Not true. He knocked out the elusive Chris Byrd and and was well ahead on points when he did it. How did he do that? Because he simply let his hands go in volume. Ike had the best stamina i have ever seen for heavyweight. Chris Byrd was one of the slickest southpaws that i have ever seen and was no where near a short stationary target. Hell, you can even make a case of Ike out boxing Byrd in the center of the ring as well and thats just insane. Its not like Chris Byrd was anybody, he went on to become a two time world champion after that loss.

Ibeabuchi vs Byrd

9jTGymMrvxU

byrd used more upperbody movement but stayed in the punch zone. he used to lean back a lot and utilize shoulder rolls. Wlad uses a lot of foot movement and at 6-7, he is a far more elsuive target. byrd wanted his opponents to miss while he stood in front of them. he let ike pin him against the ropes and tee off. Wouldn't happen with Wlad and Vitali. Infact, Vitali would be the one pinning Ike against the ropes.

Wlad UD Ike
Vitali tko 10 Ike :bart

[ChrisPontius]

They were the best boxer and the best puncer in the division respectivley.

The only thing that could have prevented Ibeabuchi from ataining greatness is his fragile psychy.

I think the best puncher in the division was Lewis and he was arguably also the best boxer, or Holyfield. You could say that Byrd was the best elusive, upper body movement based boxer though.

But Marciano_Frazier makes an excellent point that both Tua and Byrd were stylistically polar opposites to either Klitschko. I think Ibeabuchi's style is a lot less effective against someone who is not there to be hit.

[Stonehands89]

Ike was developing very quickly. He is the fighter who's ability to impose his physicality reminded me most of Liston. His skillset looked similar, his relatively slow hands and that thick powerhouse built was also reminiscent of Liston. I for one was very impressed with his defeat (and I scored it as such) of Tua and that destruction of Byrd. Those styles are in no way similar -Tua the puncher and Byrd the defensive stylist. Ibeabuchi outboxed Tua and caught Byrd -who was out of mind after that left uppercut. He wasn't "arguing with the ref", he was arguing with pink elephants.

I think that he would have went right through both of the amateurish Klitschkos.

What a disgrace and a shame that he's a menace. He had the makings of the 'sweeper of refuse' that the HW division is in dire need of right now.

[JohnThomas1]

Ike was developing very quickly. He is the fighter who's ability to impose his physicality reminded me most of Liston. His skillset looked similar, his relatively slow hands and that thick powerhouse built was also reminiscent of Liston. I for one was very impressed with his defeat (and I scored it as such) of Tua and that destruction of Byrd. Those styles are in no way similar -Tua the puncher and Byrd the defensive stylist. Ibeabuchi outboxed Tua and caught Byrd -who was out of mind after that left uppercut. He wasn't "arguing with the ref", he was arguing with pink elephants.

I think that he would have went right through both of the amateurish Klitschkos.

What a disgrace and a shame that he's a menace. He had the makings of the 'sweeper of refuse' that the HW division is in dire need of right now.


Good read. It would be no surprise if he swept out most of the current lot.

[Sister Sledge]

The problem with Ike fighting these guys is that Ike was easy to hit. He would have to take a lot of punishment to get inside with these guys. Ike did have a good skillset and I believe he might have been able to beat Wlad, but I don't think he gets by Vitali.

[slicksouthpaw16]

byrd used more upperbody movement but stayed in the punch zone. he used to lean back a lot and utilize shoulder rolls. Wlad uses a lot of foot movement and at 6-7, he is a far more elsuive target. byrd wanted his opponents to miss while he stood in front of them. he let ike pin him against the ropes and tee off. Wouldn't happen with Wlad and Vitali. Infact, Vitali would be the one pinning Ike against the ropes.

Wlad UD Ike
Vitali tko 10 Ike :bart

Please, peak Tua couldn't back Ike up and he has more one punch knockout power than the both of them and is an aggressor himself, he was definatly tougher than both of the brothers. Ike had a conceit chin and could take what they had to dish out. Also, Peter and Brewster both were able to get to Klitschko and Ike is a better out boxer, faster, stronger, has more stamina and more in his arsenal than both of them. It would only be a matter of time until he caught up with Wladimir. Vitali is the one that he would have to wear down. Vitali gets hit too much and cuts easily, Sanders and old Lewis were both able to be the agresor and still be effective. The thing is that they ran out of gas, Ike went 10 hard rounds slugging with a prime Tua and didn't show fatigue at all. He goes to the body, mixes up him punches and wears Vitali down and stops him in the later rounds. Vitali was also hurt in the sanders and Lewis fight with short sharp punches.

Also, Ike is always the aggressor and you have never seen him pinned up against the ropes. With the few fights that he had, he fought some great opposition and was proven.

[Rock0052]

Ike would get beat by both Klitschko's and Lennox. Even if you throw out that he never fought a tall boxer puncher who fought at range like they did, has slower handspeed and threw the wider shots (which would leave him wide open for counters)...how can you bank on a crazy person ad******g on the fly in a championship fight enough to win? Somehow a fighter with two screws loose outsmarts and outstrategizes some of the smartest HW's in the division? It seems like more wishful thinking than anything else considering Ike had zero experience against that kind of opponent. We also have no idea how he'd cope with championship pressure.

What I saw in Ike was that he was a very good, albeit one dimensional, contender. He matches up poorly with the taller HW's, and that one dimension isn't enough to steamroll those guys. He'd be an occasional alphabet beltholder in today's scene, but his instability would've always been his undoing.

[Russell]

Ike would get beat by both Klitschko's and Lennox. Even if you throw out that he never fought a tall boxer puncher who fought at range like they did, has slower handspeed and threw the wider shots (which would leave him wide open for counters)...how can you bank on a crazy person ad******g on the fly in a championship fight enough to win? Somehow a fighter with two screws loose outsmarts and outstrategizes some of the smartest HW's in the division? It seems like more wishful thinking than anything else considering Ike had zero experience against that kind of opponent. We also have no idea how he'd cope with championship pressure.

What I saw in Ike was that he was a very good, albeit one dimensional, contender. He matches up poorly with the taller HW's, and that one dimension isn't enough to steamroll those guys. He'd be an occasional alphabet beltholder in today's scene, but his instability would've always been his undoing.

Ike was supposedly completely normal up until, I believe, the Tua fight.

Some feel something got banged loose upstairs, some kind of dementia. Maybe something pre-existing became worse.

Who knows.

[Rock0052]

Ike was supposedly completely normal up until, I believe, the Tua fight.

Some feel something got banged loose upstairs, some kind of dementia. Maybe something pre-existing became worse.

Who knows.

I've thought of that same possibility as well...he took some hellacious shots in that fight, and I do think he suffered some kind of damage from it. I'll give Ike his due though- I never thought he'd be able to last against Tua taking shots for the entire fight like that, let alone pull out the W on the scorecards. I don't know how someone could be in a fight like that and come out the same fighter.

I'll admit though, I might be a little too hard on Ike- but a little counterbalance never hurts. :yep

[madman101]

Crazy Ike loses to both and Vitali would stop him. Ike was great at punching at a short, stationary target

"Ike was great at punching at a short, stationary target" lol same as wlad then i think ike would ice wlad walk straight through his jab and bust him up inside Vitali not so sure his toughness might get him to a decision but id flavour the older brother to get the job done

[SuzieQ49]

Vitali toughness? What toughness did he show against Chris Byrd? Wlad is tougher than Vitali, and a better fighter too.

[sinol]

in 1999....the klitschko bros would of never been heavyweight champs/ they peaked way later/..........in 1999 ike woulda beaten wlad or vitali......prime for prime ike knocks out wlad....prime 4 prime i say perhaps vitali on opinst vs ike...but then again ike woulda gotten under that jab...and he punches much harder than chisora

[MRBILL]

How would the Nigerian does against both, Wladimir and Vitaly?

Ike might get LUCKY with chinny Wladimir, but he'd be pounded by stud Vitali.......
:deal

MR.BILL:bbb

[luke]

ike would beat vitali, vitali would more than likely quitt from "injury"

and wladamir would be lucky to last 6 rounds.

ike was just a bigger stronger evander holyfield imo.

[punchy]

In his time he was a monster, a little bit raw though he would have needed more fights before facing the brothers.

[round15]

A fighter that had so much potential as Ike could KO both Klitschko Bros, just on power alone. Don't know if he had the discipline to box and adapt in a fight over 12 against the Klitschkos if he himself got into trouble.

Ike's not winning the outside battle against either Wlad or Vitali so he'd half to rely on getting inside to attack their bodies and counterpunch on top. He might be in for a long night if he waits for Wlad or Vitali to make a mistake. They'll both just pile up points on him and stay outside using their reach.

Not counting out Ike, but his best chance at winning againt either Klitschko was early in their careers when they were still learning and vulnerable. Ike's not beating the post Lennox fight Klitschko or Wlad at that time.

[ripcity]

Both of the brothers Klitchko would have beat him.

[Azzer85]

Ike knocks Wlad out
and probably stops Vitali late

Ike is a big what if, yes i know, but Vitali is so overrated its unbeliavble

Im sure Ike could do a lot better than 'G-Sora'

[lufcrazy]

Wlad beats him on points.

He stops vitali.

[Threetime no1]

Ike stops Wlad, too aggressive and too much workrate.

Against Vitali, i'd favour Vitali just, in a decision win.

Apparantley Ike was always a random head the ball, Tua's punches didn't cause his problems, though they may of added to them.

[Bummy Davis]

Wlad KO6. Vit UD12.

Saw Ike fight in person and never bought the bandwagon.

Another "what if" guy that everyone on this board is so in love with.


I would have to agree with this, he was a woulda, coulda,shoulda