Is wladimir klitschko the greatest Heavweight of all time?

[US_BOXING_FAN]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.

[Bart]

No.

[Flatlander]

:rofl No

[US_BOXING_FAN]

Can you be a little bit more expansive on your response beside just saying no???..who do you think the Greatest is?

[Bart]

Can you be a little bit more expansive on your response beside just saying no???..who do you think the Greatest is?

A-Force

[dangerousity]

Ali would outbox Klitschko. He was only 3" shorter and about the same reach...on top of that Ali had the chin to withstand Wlad shots and is much faster and much more skilled. Ali would slip Wlad punches and utterly make him silly.

Tyson would KHTFO. Lewis would KO him too. Foreman would KO him. Holmes would have outboxed him. Holyfield UD.

Id pick him to beat Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier and all other previous titlists.

[PeterNielsen70]

Can you be a little bit more expansive on your response beside just saying no???..who do you think the Greatest is?

He's only 6'6½, his brother, Vitaly, was 6'7½ i think.

[Brickhaus]

I wouldn't give him even odds against Lennox Lewis much less some of the all-time greats.

- Ali would be able to evade his jab and move inside.
- Lewis is big enough and jabs well enough to hang on the outside, and had better stamina and chin and would outlast him
- Foreman (pre-comeback version) would have walked through the job and beaten the hell out of his body until he exposed his chin.
- Peak Bowe would have countered the jabs with power shots to Wlad's chin.


Yes, he probably would have beaten most of the small brawling types because he's big and is good at keeping guys on the outside, but he'd have trouble against some of the more elusive heavies and some of the other good big heavies. I'm not sure he's even head to head top 10 material.

[Muchmoore]

:lol:

Um, no. Watch some classic fights.

[PATSYS]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.

If you mean one of the greatest 100 HWs of all time, then maybe.

But if you mean top 10, answer is no.

Wlad has all the tools to become a great HW. But we will only find out when his career is over.

I see Wlad as this era's Lennox Lewis, only there is nobody around to challenge him whereas during Lewis' era, the HW division has some of the top talents around.

[lefthook31]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.
Ali beat Foreman remember?? It takes heart and will and mental toughness to be considered great or the greatest. Number one Klitschko doesnt have the talent in his competition to prove much, and he has shown little mental toughness, in giving up against guys like Ross Purrity, Sanders and Brewster. When the going gets tough, he quit. He showed some mental improvment in the Peter, fight, but Sam Peter can never be considered to be on the same level as a George Foreman. Klitschko is a talented athelete, but he doesnt have the guts nor does he have the competition to reach all time great stature. It takes evenly matched complete fighters to face each other to produce an all time great. He will go down as a talented heavyweight in a weak era.

[Relentless]

the klitschko quote of the week thread.

[BigReg]

Here are a list of fighters from the 90's until now that are better than Wlad:

Riddick Bowe
Evander Holyfield
Vitali Klitscho
Lennox Lewis

Wlad has some good skils, but he seems too content to stand on the outside and jab all night. Bowe, Lewis and Vitali are big enough to get in close with Wlad using their own jab. Wlad is not a great inside fighter, and becomes a bit timid when guys get in his ass and start firing shots from close range. Evander is pure heart and brute strength. He'll eat a couple of jabs to get on the inside, and then he would proceed to do some serious damage to Wlad's face. If Corrie Sanders can intimidate this guy, I'm sure everyone else on my list could as well.

[lefthook31]

Here are a list of fighters from the 90's until now that are better than Wlad:

Riddick Bowe
Evander Holyfield
Vitali Klitscho
Lennox Lewis

Wlad has some good skils, but he seems too content to stand on the outside and jab all night. Bowe, Lewis and Vitali are big enough to get in close with Wlad using their own jab. Wlad is not a great inside fighter, and becomes a bit timid when guys get in his ass and start firing shots from close range. Evander is pure heart and brute strength. He'll eat a couple of jabs to get on the inside, and then he would proceed to do some serious damage to Wlad's face. If Corrie Sanders can intimidate this guy, I'm sure everyone else on my list could as well.
Why is Vitali on the list?? Who has he beaten?? He lost to Lewis remember, and quit against Byrd. Vitali accomplished nothing in the 90's either.

[BigReg]

Why is Vitali on the list?? Who has he beaten?? He lost to Lewis remember, and quit against Byrd. Vitali accomplished nothing in the 90's either.

Who has Wlad beat? Vitali hurt his rotator cuff when he quit against Byrd. He was clearly winning that fight,at the time it was stop. Also, there is no shame in losing to Lewis, he's one of the best HW's of all time. Vitali was ahead when that fight was stopped too. Actually, Vitali has never even been knocked down his entire career. Wlad has been knocked out 3 times(his losses where alot worse than Vitali's). Are you really going to tell me that Wlad could beat his older brother? I don't think so, Vitali isn't an ATG, but he would beat Wlad.

[KO byBRIGGS]

No he is not, there are many fights that could be made that he doesnt take for whatever reason, I for one want to see him fight someone bigger than him or atleast around the same size. Any of the following opponents:

Shannon Briggs
Nicolai Valuev
Tony Thompson

I`m not saying he'd lose but I want to see him fight big opponents.

[IOANNIS]

No!

[Rumsfeld]

No. Wlad has yet to crack the top 15, and quite possibly, has not cracked the top 20. However, if he dominates the division for the foreseeable future, his name might well deserve mention on a very short list.

[barneyrub]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.Who did he fight in his last fights though? Ray Austin, come on everyone said that was a joke of an opponent so that performance tells us nothing, as for Brewster, a guy coming off over a year out the ring, coming off a loss and severe injury detatched retina which by his demeaner and his trainers words as early as the 2nd round about how he wasnt going to let him take any shots tonight, at a point before he had really taken anything big! Essentially Brewster was mentally unfit to be in a fight due to that injury, all the instructions shouted at thim during the rounds were about staying in the shell defence and out of wlads punching zone, they had no plan of fighting or attack. 2 uncompetitive opponents that shoulkd never of been in world title fights at that point. That tells us nothing, you may as well watch him in training and say he looks good against that heavy bag! What will tell us about wlad is what happens when he gets hit, will his legs go wobbly and everything fall apart, will he leap in to grab hold and lean down on his opponent or will he be able to use a new technique of continuing to fight!

From all those possible match ups you mention, we do know that Lewis would be the absolute favourite to of ko`d wlad IF that fight had happened back in 2002/03 which is the only window in which it could have happened. Nobody seriously believes wlad would have won at that point, as for a mystical prime vs prime fight, who knows at this point because we dont really have many questions answered about wlad from the last couple of opponents, so youd have to still go with Lewis just now. What i think everyone would also agree is that Vitali would always beat wlad, he is alot tougher despite wlads skill. And Remember, Lewis beat Vitali while at his oldest, most inactive and heaviest so he proved tougher or at least as tough. The mental capacity and heart to come back from disasterous early rounds like Lewis did against Vitali is what will bring wlad the respect and acclaim and shut the doubters up, thats something we havent seen in him as yet! Hopefully his next fight isnt another showcase peice of matchmaking for the german crowd by bringing in a past 40 Sanders back from inactivity and a beating from big brother Vitali, thats about as nonsense a title fight today as bringing in a one eyed Brewster, too late, he would be just as well fighting Ali now! For all it will prove.

[Sakura]

"What i think everyone would also agree is that Vitali would always beat wlad, he is alot tougher despite wlads skill"

Rubbish..better Klitchko is younger one and his already achieve more than Vitali. Wlads skill level is much higher than Vitalis...Lennox fans has always agenda against wladimir, because Lennox win older brother. Years ago klitchkos say that they want fight vitali vs Tyson and Wlad vs Lewis

[Sonny's jab]

The ESB Forum Greatest heavyweights of All-time :

1. Wlad Klitschko
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Chris Byrd
6. Lamon Brewster
7. Mike Tyson
8. Corrie Sanders
9. Larry Holmes
10. Evander Holyfield
11. George Foreman
12. Monte Barrett
13. Sam Peter
14. James Toney
15. Rocky Marciano
16. Joe Louis
17. Jameel McCline
18. Calvin Brock
19. Sonny Liston
20. Ross Purrity

[Lupe]

No.

This is the best answer you're ever gonna get.

[Lupe]

The ESB Forum Greatest heavyweights of All-time :

1. Wlad Klitschko
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Chris Byrd
6. Lamon Brewster
7. Mike Tyson
8. Corrie Sanders
9. Larry Holmes
10. Evander Holyfield
11. George Foreman
12. Monte Barrett
13. Sam Peter
14. James Toney
15. Rocky Marciano
16. Joe Louis
17. Jameel McCline
18. Calvin Brock
19. Sonny Liston
20. Ross Purrity

Bullshit!

How come is Ali so high up while Ross Purity at #20? What about Francois Botha?

[MrMagic]

Wladimir is entitled to some respect, but only a wise boxing fan would sum up his wins/loses and give him a spot in the ATG/HOF AFTER his career is over.:good I think he's got a few more good fights ahead of him.

[marauder1999]

The ESB Forum Greatest heavyweights of All-time :

1. Wlad Klitschko
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Chris Byrd
6. Lamon Brewster
7. Mike Tyson
8. Corrie Sanders
9. Larry Holmes
10. Evander Holyfield
11. George Foreman
12. Monte Barrett
13. Sam Peter
14. James Toney
15. Rocky Marciano
16. Joe Louis
17. Jameel McCline
18. Calvin Brock
19. Sonny Liston
20. Ross Purrity

Toney is #14????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: --------what the fuck is he on here at all????

[Sonny's jab]

Toney is #14????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: --------what the fuck is he on here at all????

:huh

:rofl

[KobeIsGod]

Wlad as of right now has established himself as the best hw in the world by a wide margin and is moving closer to becoming undisputed each fight. That's it! Nothing more, nothing less.

[PeterNielsen70]

The ESB Forum Greatest heavyweights of All-time :

1. Wlad Klitschko
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Chris Byrd
6. Lamon Brewster
7. Mike Tyson
8. Corrie Sanders
9. Larry Holmes
10. Evander Holyfield
11. George Foreman
12. Monte Barrett
13. Sam Peter
14. James Toney
15. Rocky Marciano
16. Joe Louis
17. Jameel McCline
18. Calvin Brock
19. Sonny Liston
20. Ross Purrity

Almost totally agree - but why not move Lamon Brewsten a couple of places up the list:think

[Stinky gloves]

Almost totally agree - but why not move Lamon Brewsten a couple of places up the list:think

Brewster above Ali for sure

[MrMagic]

Almost totally agree - but why not move Lamon Brewsten a couple of places up the list:think
Brewster, not Brewsten.
And my danish friend, do not disrespect a warrior :good
That avatar makes me crazy

[Rollo]

Ask Ross Puritty.

[PeterNielsen70]

And here is a list that isn’t quite that insane:


Muhammed Ali
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
George Foreman
Joe Lewis
Larry Homes
Evander Holyfield
Rocky Marciano
Riddick Bowe
Vitali Klitschko Sorry no room for Wlad in top-10 :smooch

[Boro chris]

Can you be a little bit more expansive on your response beside just saying no???..who do you think the Greatest is?


Thats a very good point you've made.












Now fuck off.

[DamonD]

"How shall we fuck off, O Lord?"

[lefthook31]

Who has Wlad beat? Vitali hurt his rotator cuff when he quit against Byrd. He was clearly winning that fight,at the time it was stop. Also, there is no shame in losing to Lewis, he's one of the best HW's of all time. Vitali was ahead when that fight was stopped too. Actually, Vitali has never even been knocked down his entire career. Wlad has been knocked out 3 times(his losses where alot worse than Vitali's). Are you really going to tell me that Wlad could beat his older brother? I don't think so, Vitali isn't an ATG, but he would beat Wlad.

WTF who said anything about Wlad, I dont think much of him as a fighter either, but I really dont think much of Vitali.

Oh I see, thats my mistake the sentence should have been who has vitali beat, not Wlad

[unitas]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.

you should try comedy:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

[Sundance]

Wlad is going to dominate his era, that's pretty obvious from his last six fights against the best that's out there. Another Peter fight might offer a challenge, but he'll be damaged goods by the time Vitali is finished with him.
I never thought I'd see an era when white Europeans dominated the HW scene. Changed days. It started for me when Herbie Hide was dismantled in two rounds by VK and hasnt really stopped since.

[brooklyn1550]

No, 3rd best - behind Corrie Sanders and Ross Puritty

[Robbi]

No, 3rd best - behind Corrie Sanders and Ross Puritty

:bush

[brooklyn1550]

What the hell is he doing there?:(

:lol: Who knows?

[brooklyn1550]

:bush

I see you have changed from Pernell Whitaker to Bernard Hopkins:good ....what's your pick for the 21st?

[CKOT]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.


yeah

[BigReg]

WTF who said anything about Wlad, I dont think much of him as a fighter either, but I really dont think much of Vitali.

Oh I see, thats my mistake the sentence should have been who has vitali beat, not Wlad

In my post, I listed fighters from 1990 until now that I feel are better than Wlad. You then responded by questioning why Vitali was on the list. Naturally, since the list was comprised of people I believe to better than Wlad, I assumed that since you questioned Vitali's inclusion on the list that you felt that Wlad was better than him.

[Ayatollah]

Ban this infidel. Ban him to hell.

[Brendan]

Ali would outbox Klitschko. He was only 3" shorter and about the same reach...on top of that Ali had the chin to withstand Wlad shots and is much faster and much more skilled. Ali would slip Wlad punches and utterly make him silly.

Tyson would KHTFO. Lewis would KO him too. Foreman would KO him. Holmes would have outboxed him. Holyfield UD.

Id pick him to beat Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier and all other previous titlists.

Would the Ali that almost got turded by an old liquor store owner or struggled with and got knocked flat and almost out by a less than skilled 185lb Henry Cooper beat the new improved Wlad? ---NO SIR.

Would the Tyson that got beat into submission by the amasingly talented Buster Douglas or turded everytime he stepped up to A level fighters (sometimes c--The Irish bloke or sometimes B--Williams) beat the new improved Wlad?---NO SIR.

Would the Foreman who got KO'd by Ali or beaten by Morrison beat the new improved Wlad?---NO SIR.

Would the Lewis who got beat silly by Vitali and saved by a cut or KO'd by McCall or Rahman beat the new improved Wlad?---NO SIR.

Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier...those little guys?...hahahaha---NO SIR.

No guy test the new improved Wlad.

[Fighting Weight]

Would the Ali that almost got turded by an old liquor store owner or struggled with and got knocked flat and almost out by a less than skilled 185lb Henry Cooper beat the new improved Wlad? ---NO SIR.

Would the Tyson that got beat into submission by the amasingly talented Buster Douglas or turded everytime he stepped up to A level fighters (sometimes c--The Irish bloke or sometimes B--Williams) beat the new improved Wlad?---NO SIR.

Would the Foreman who got KO'd by Ali or beaten by Morrison beat the new improved Wlad?---NO SIR.

Would the Lewis who got beat silly by Vitali and saved by a cut or KO'd by McCall or Rahman beat the new improved Wlad?---NO SIR.

Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier...those little guys?...hahahaha---NO SIR.

No guy test the new improved Wlad.


:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

The less cynical side of me likes to think this is a deliberate attempt at comedy.......

[djrock247]

You know, this is a difficult question to answer. I've thought long and hard about this all day and I keep coming back to the same question...

are you fucking retarded?

[Brendan]

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

The less cynical side of me likes to think this is a deliberate attempt at comedy.......

No sir, just fact.

Accept.

[Brendan]

The new Stewardised Wlad is the greatest boxer ever.

God bless Steward.

[Mrboogie23]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.





:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl







are you an idiot?


hmmmmm..... :think

I say yes.

[PeterNielsen70]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.

I like your analysis a lot. I think your right on many points. But perhaps a day we will see the Lewis-Wladimir fight. Some fighters do make some nice comebacks. For example George Foreman. Also Rocky in the movies. I know it is just a movie, but anyway. Perhaps we will have to wait 5 years before we will figure out who’s the best.:thumbsup

[Asterion]

Ali was 6'3 220 lbs you idiot, he wouldn;t be anything near a CW. Jump off a cliff and die.

205 to 215 at his best.

[Batsch]

This thread says a lot of people knowing the sport. Hell guys like Klitschko or Lennox would have good chances to beat every HW which fought within the last 120 years. I don´t say they would beat everyone, but they got good chances.

People who just say "no" without any explanation are just too stupid or just don´t know what they should answer because they dont know nothing about the sport.

And otherwise esp. a lot of Americans and Brits like to glorify the past and every critics on the past ist some kind of blasphemy.

I can say these morons: Wake up. We are in the 21th century now.

Klitschko is not the best HW of all times, but he is pretty good and he has good chances vs. blown up Cruiserweights like Ali and Foreman and so on.

No Heavyweight was unbeatable. And Klitschko and Lewis got the tools to land flush shots against every Heavyweight in the past. Thats the reality. I wanna see what happens to Foreman who went down several times in his career, if he had to take a Klitschko straight right or left hook. Do you think Foreman was superman??? Or Ali???? Or Liston???

[Fighting Weight]

Klitschko is not the best HW of all times, but he is pretty good and he has good chances vs. blown up Cruiserweights like Ali and Foreman and so on.


:admin :admin :admin :admin :admin :admin

:patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch

[Batsch]

:admin :admin :admin :admin :admin :admin

:patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch


Foremans weight was around 215-220 lbs. you little moron.....thats nothing more than a nowadays blown up Cruiser (Evander Holyfield, Chris Byrd). He would look quite tiny vs. Lennox or Wlad. But I think with your more or less primitive brain you cannot imagine....

So write what you want. I cannot take it serious.

[Sakura]

Ali weights against Henry Cooper 201lb. So not so far away

[RUSKULL]

Here are a list of fighters from the 90's until now that are better than Wlad:

Riddick Bowe
Evander Holyfield
Vitali Klitscho
Lennox Lewis

Wlad has some good skils, but he seems too content to stand on the outside and jab all night. Bowe, Lewis and Vitali are big enough to get in close with Wlad using their own jab. Wlad is not a great inside fighter, and becomes a bit timid when guys get in his ass and start firing shots from close range. Evander is pure heart and brute strength. He'll eat a couple of jabs to get on the inside, and then he would proceed to do some serious damage to Wlad's face. If Corrie Sanders can intimidate this guy, I'm sure everyone else on my list could as well.

Wlad has already surpassed Vitali in achievements. Head to head we'll probably never know since they refuse to fight each other. The full story is still being written for both since Vitali is making his comeback.

As far as Bowe is concerned I believe you're wrong. As far as achievements are concerned Wlad has passed Bowe since he has more defenses against better opposition. Before you say "well Bowe was linear" remember it's partly his fault the HW belts are spintered today.

Head to head I think Wlad beats Bowe up similar to the way Golota did minus the lowblows. :yep Wlad's jab is better than Golota's and so is his power. In fact I think he would've stopped either version of Riddick that Golota was DQ'd against.

Both Holyfield & Lewis have better legacys than Wladimir does at this point but head to head & prime for prime, we'll never know.

[RUSKULL]

All of this talk about Wlad's standing among the all-time greats is ridiculous because he is STILL ACTIVE! We can't make judgements like this until he is retired and we can view all of his accomplishments (as well as failures)...

All that being said - the version of Wlad that we just saw against Brewster (a 6'6", fast, powerful, athletic, confident, MOTIVATED guy with a monster jab thats just hitting his prime) would have been a tough fight for ANYBODY in the history of the division. Not saying he'd beat everybody - but he'd sure as hell give them a tought fight!!! You haters say what you will, but it's just my opinion...

That's what I'm saying to a tee. The current version of Wladimir gives any HW fighter in history a good fight but that doesn't mean he wins them all by any means. The same posters that are saying this guy & that guy would beat Klitschko down in a single round are the same ones that just predicted he'd be KO'd by Brewster, Brock & Peter. Shit some were saying Byrd would KO Wlad! I kid you not.....................

[DaveTheWave]

Yeah, Klit is the greatest heavy ever and I'm gonna turn pro and whip PBF and then move up and destroy Taylor... (ahh, but if only...)

[Batsch]

Yeah, Klit is the greatest heavy ever and I'm gonna turn pro and whip PBF and then move up and destroy Taylor... (ahh, but if only...)


Hey, I would cheer you.


GO ON MATE:happy:happy:happy:happy:happy

[DK80]

Klitschko is still active. If he has a successful carreer and unifies the titles (or at least some of them) you can argue that he's the best or one of the best, but at the moment he's still in the making.

[Fighting Weight]

Foremans weight was around 215-220 lbs. you little moron.....thats nothing more than a nowadays blown up Cruiser (Evander Holyfield, Chris Byrd). He would look quite tiny vs. Lennox or Wlad. But I think with your more or less primitive brain you cannot imagine....

So write what you want. I cannot take it serious.

Foreman always fought around 220 and around 1977 just before he quit at age 27/28 he was fighting around the 230 mark. WALDO was 243 or thereabouts when he fought Brewster last week. This means WALDO is only 13lbs heavier than a 'blown up cruiserweight' :huh :huh :huh

Foreman would look 'tiny' compared to Lewis or WALDO?? And to think you called me a moron :nut

I agree Byrd is just a blown up cruiserweight though - and he's still the best win on WALDOS resume :good

[RUSKULL]

Foreman always fought around 220 and around 1977 just before he quit at age 27/28 he was fighting around the 230 mark. WALDO was 243 or thereabouts when he fought Brewster last week. This means WALDO is only 13lbs heavier than a 'blown up cruiserweight' :huh :huh :huh

Foreman would look 'tiny' compared to Lewis or WALDO?? And to think you called me a moron :nut

I agree Byrd is just a blown up cruiserweight though - and he's still the best win on WALDOS resume :good

That would be "wins" not "win" as in plural since he beat his ass down twice. :yep :bbb

[RUSKULL]

I agree that Forman was no "blown up cruiserweight" though, in fact he was known as "Big George" back in the day. The ironic thing is that he was only 6'3" if I'm not mistaken (I'm too lazy to go to boxrec..............)

[Fighting Weight]

I agree that Forman was no "blown up cruiserweight" though, in fact he was known as "Big George" back in the day. The ironic thing is that he was only 6'3" if I'm not mistaken (I'm too lazy to go to boxrec..............)

I thought he was 6'4 but even so, 'blown up cruiserweight'???? Ali pre-layoff wasn't the biggest heavy but he'd have struggled to make cruiser that's for sure.

Damn if the WALDO lovers want to make an argument then make one but saying shit like that is just idiotic. 'Foreman would look tiny next to WALDO' :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[RUSKULL]

I thought he was 6'4 but even so, 'blown up cruiserweight'???? Ali pre-layoff wasn't the biggest heavy but he'd have struggled to make cruiser that's for sure.

Damn if the WALDO lovers want to make an argument then make one but saying shit like that is just idiotic. 'Foreman would look tiny next to WALDO' :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

I believe Ali was 6'2" and I couldn't see him as a Cruiser either.

Rocky Marciano would've been a Cruiser & he would've ruled there too! :good

[Maxmomer]

You know, this is a difficult question to answer. I've thought long and hard about this all day and I keep coming back to the same question...

are you fucking retarded?

Nice. Nice, nice.

[psychopath]

Is wladimir klitschko the greatest Heavweight of all time?

Fuck that . . . nah definitely not! :yep

[Maxmomer]

Foremans weight was around 215-220 lbs. you little moron.....thats nothing more than a nowadays blown up Cruiser (Evander Holyfield, Chris Byrd). He would look quite tiny vs. Lennox or Wlad. But I think with your more or less primitive brain you cannot imagine....

So write what you want. I cannot take it serious.
Your logic astounds me.

[Fighting Weight]

I believe Ali was 6'2" and I couldn't see him as a Cruiser either.

Rocky Marciano would've been a Cruiser & he would've ruled there too! :good

Ali was 6'3, plenty big enough to beat the sh.....no, I'm not going to bother :hey

Marciano with modern methods would probably have weighed 20-30lbs more than he did back then. Hell if Tua can carry 240+ then Rock can carry 220 and they're the same height as each other. Difference is Marciano could fight :deal

[RUSKULL]

Let me say right now that I'm a big Klitschko fan but neither is the greatest HW of all time and either would have an incredibly hard time achieving that status in today's HW climate. Not that today's HW division is so bad mind you but the 70's & 90's are hard to match. The 80's basically sucked though, y'know during Holmes & Tyson's eras :yep

[RUSKULL]

Ali was 6'3, plenty big enough to beat the sh.....no, I'm not going to bother :hey

Marciano with modern methods would probably have weighed 20-30lbs more than he did back then. Hell if Tua can carry 240+ then Rock can carry 220 and they're the same height as each other. Difference is Marciano could fight :deal


As far as Rocky is concerned I've found that most people either over or under rate him. :roll:

[Mr "T"]

Can you be a little bit more expansive on your response beside just saying no???..who do you think the Greatest is?They are hurt and pissed, what else do you expect from a brat?:yep

[Mr "T"]

No he is not, there are many fights that could be made that he doesnt take for whatever reason, I for one want to see him fight someone bigger than him or atleast around the same size. Any of the following opponents:

Shannon Briggs
Nicolai Valuev
Tony Thompson

I`m not saying he'd lose but I want to see him fight big opponents.
:nut Try on Jameel, 6'6 250, Ray Austin 6'6 250, you need more proof?

[McGrain]

Lock
This
Fucking
Thread

[Shamrock]

I know that klitschko has a weak chin but from watching his last several fights I don't see anyone out there that can beat him right now. he has a great stiff jab which he could probably knock some guys out with that alone. but he also really does punch like a steel hammer with both fist. and in the Lamon Brewster fight he showed that he has developed great ring movement. I know that most people continue to refer to Ali as the greatest , but let's be real back in his era of boxing those heavyweights would only be today's cruiserweights. Most of those guys would be too small and wouldn't be able to handle klitschko's size or power including Ali , although I believe Ali was actually a more skilled fighter I just don't think he would be able to get inside on klitschko to do any real damage. And i don't even think he would know how to because that just wasn't his style of fighting. Actually I think that George Foreman of those days would have a better chance against klitschko because of his size , power and Chin. And the only guy that has fought within the last few years that i believe would have a good chance to defeat klitschko would be Lennox Lewis. that would have been an exciting fight to watch but sadly we'll never know for sure who would have won that fight.

Klitschko would KO Lennox Lewis! Joe Louis is the best of all time, and he would get inside Klitschko's reach and cause some real damage for sure.

[barneyrub]

:nut Try on Jameel, 6'6 250, Ray Austin 6'6 250, you need more proof?neither are legit opponents for provng anything against. Hopeless cases in world title fight qualifications.

[barneyrub]

Wlad has already surpassed Vitali in achievements. Head to head we'll probably never know since they refuse to fight each other. The full story is still being written for both since Vitali is making his comeback.

As far as Bowe is concerned I believe you're wrong. As far as achievements are concerned Wlad has passed Bowe since he has more defenses against better opposition. Before you say "well Bowe was linear" remember it's partly his fault the HW belts are spintered today.

Head to head I think Wlad beats Bowe up similar to the way Golota did minus the lowblows. :yep Wlad's jab is better than Golota's and so is his power. In fact I think he would've stopped either version of Riddick that Golota was DQ'd against.

Both Holyfield & Lewis have better legacys than Wladimir does at this point but head to head & prime for prime, we'll never know.I dont think you can include wbo defenses in your argument, that has never been a legit title at heavyweight and its disengenious to announce him as 2 time heavyweight champion of the world, in that case he is level with Herbie Hide who also you could call 2 time world champion for winning that baubble. Defences against better opposition, yeah Bowe didnt really fight anyone but some of wlads so far aint great either, hopeless mcline, hopeless austin coming off a draw, a one eyed brewster coming off a loss, a 43 year old mercer, calvin who?, shufford......

[Bummy Davis]

No he is not but he is a very much improved fighter and has dominated the top heavyweights, Byrd,Peter,Brock,Austin,Brewster and has done so impressivly, Vlad is only 31 and I expect to see him in another 10 or so fights, time will tell how much he improves and where he will stand next to the ATGs

[Shamrock]

No he is not but he is a very much improved fighter and has dominated the top heavyweights, Byrd,Peter,Brock,Austin,Brewster and has done so impressivly, Vlad is only 31 and I expect to see him in another 10 or so fights, time will tell how much he improves and where he will stand next to the ATGs

Nicely done, and accurate! :good

[Marciano Frazier]

No, he's not the greatest of all time. He's not even the greatest of the last 10 years, maybe not even the last five years.

[RUSKULL]

I dont think you can include wbo defenses in your argument, that has never been a legit title at heavyweight and its disengenious to announce him as 2 time heavyweight champion of the world, in that case he is level with Herbie Hide who also you could call 2 time world champion for winning that baubble. Defences against better opposition, yeah Bowe didnt really fight anyone but some of wlads so far aint great either, hopeless mcline, hopeless austin coming off a draw, a one eyed brewster coming off a loss, a 43 year old mercer, calvin who?, shufford......

Bowe had 3 great fights vs. Holyfield and 2 vs. Golota, the only problem is he lost 1 vs. Holyfield & would've lost both vs. Andrew if Golota wasn't so stupid.

Riddick Bowe had potential but he never did much, just a footnote in the history books and I doubt he'll change that with his latest comeback.

[hobgoblin]

you guys are so gullible! he was pulling your legs right from the start. this is OBVIOUS sarcasm.

[Shamrock]

you guys are so gullible! he was pulling your legs right from the start. this is OBVIOUS sarcasm.

Yeah, its a little bit over the top, I agree. So lets talk about Mikey's legacy Hobs, where does he stand in the greats? I suspect hes in there somewhere for one reason or another. He's another who might get in on Klit at prime to prime. But I don't think Klit is in his prime yet, still need to see him commit and let his hands go. Mike had no problems in that department for sure.

[Seamus]

Marciano with modern methods would probably have weighed 20-30lbs more than he did back then.

OK, that's just fucking silly, unless by modern methods you mean the James Toney Wendy's-Triple-for-breakfast, lunch-and-dinner method.

Marciano was a fit, mean machine at 187. Take him for what he was, not what he was never meant to be.

And by the way, what's the use in commenting on the legacy of a work-in-progress?

[C Money]

There's no way in hell that you can call Wlad the greatest HW at this point. Wlad would need to unify and defend it at least 3 to 4 times before you could question him in the top 5.

[Farmboxer]

Vlad certainly looks like he can become the best heavyweight in history!!!!!!! Vlad has the best skills of any, and is still getting better!!!!!!!

[C Money]

Vlad certainly looks like he can become the best heavyweight in history!!!!!!! Vlad has the best skills of any, and is still getting better!!!!!!!


I'd take a PRIME Joe The Brown Bomber Louis over Wlad any day, even if Wlad unified against the current crop.

[viperguy]

Greatest of all time:lol: Wald is good but prime Mike would knock him out.

[Shamrock]

OK, that's just fucking silly, unless by modern methods you mean the James Toney Wendy's-Triple-for-breakfast, lunch-and-dinner method.

Marciano was a fit, mean machine at 187. Take him for what he was, not what he was never meant to be.

And by the way, what's the use in commenting on the legacy of a work-in-progress?

Nicely put Seamus, Marciano was too mean a trainer to carry any fat, and Wlad can only be commented on as a work in progess, not yet the finished article by any means. Steward has an ATG in the making, we just wait until the kettle boils then judge the heat in the kitchen.

[PIRA]

Wlad is defintley the greatest of all time. He's beaten every fighter of his era and that can't be said for the rest of the heavyweights. I think his sheer size advantage would lead him to a KO over a prime Tyson. Wlads very good at slipping and countering jabs so he'd EASILY pull out a UD over Ali. Holyfield, Riddick Bowe, Michael Moorer, Joe Louis, Joe Frazier and Lennox Lewis all get KO'd in their prime by Wlad. George Foreman was strong, but athletes back then were nothing compared to athletes these days so i give it to Wlad by late KO. Wlad takes Rocky Marciano to a 15 round UD. Knocking down Rocky 6 times and getting knocked down a few times himself.

Wlad = GOAT...



































:rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol: :rofl:lol::rofl:lol::rofl:lol:

:yep


If you think Wlad is even remotley close to even the top 10, you must be

:rasta or :nut


:-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

Man you had me going there. I nearly choked until I saw the end of the post. Reading Klithugger posts about Wlad being ATG is great for releasing those emotions - you want to grab the offender and knock some boxing brains into them.

[PIRA]

Lol yeah Wlads good, and obviously the best heavyweight in this time, but seriously... this time. Fernando Vargas should've stayed at 264 he might be able to win the WBACUAB title over someone whos 2-56 and somehow get #1 contender by the IBF.

You should have been around for "the grainy stills"......Klithugging at its finest.

Lets watch for Purrity to come out of retirement and get ranked nbr 1, Wlad beat him them all the Kliterites will hold that up with an epic win over Sanders and scream "Wlad's done everything LL has done and is better looking".

[Erebus]

Greatest of all time:lol: Wald is good but prime Mike would knock him out.

:good :good :good :happy

In the early rounds too.

[Sundance]

:good :good :good :happy

In the early rounds too.


Doubt it. He couldnt knock out Mitch Green, Tony Tucker or James Smith. :hi: Tyson is more myth than legend.

[Erebus]

Doubt it. He couldnt knock out Mitch Green, Tony Tucker or James Smith. :hi: Tyson is more myth than legend.

Much like Waldo:yep

[Shamrock]

Much like Waldo:yep

Wlad is still emerging dumfuck!:smooch

[Matthew W]

It's impossible to judge how older fighters would do against today's HW's because the training was a lot less sophisticated. With todays training methods Marciano, Ali etc would have been even better (certainly heavier and stronger) and so there wouldn't have so much of a weight difference between them and Wlad. Wlad has a long way to go before he is top 10 of all time, I am not saying he won't make it, just being realistic.

[PeterNielsen70]

What the hell is he doing there?:(


OK - away with Vitaly then - but I'll still rank him above the baby-brother:smooch

[Fighting Weight]

Much like Waldo:yep

Much as the WALDO-lovers hate to admit it, Tyson is nothing like WALDO :yep

[Fighting Weight]

Wlad is still emerging dumfuck!:smooch

Still emerging at 31, and with 3 defeats to crap competition :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Shamrock]

Still emerging at 31, and with 3 defeats to crap competition :lol: :lol: :lol:

He didn't stay down like Lewis did in his prime....:lol: :lol: :lol: :hi:

[Fighting Weight]

He didn't stay down like Lewis did in his prime....:lol: :lol: :lol: :hi:

No but he went down and got dominated by 3 guys Lewis wouldn't even contemplate as opponents, never mind threats.....

Happy spinning old man :good

[Shamrock]

No but he went down and got dominated by 3 guys Lewis wouldn't even contemplate as opponents, never mind threats.....

Happy spinning old man :good

Yet Lennox went down against b grade fighters and never got up again! What sort of domination is that?:dead

[lightning punch]

reponse to the initial post: maybe one day but not yet.

[Fighting Weight]

Yet Lennox went down against b grade fighters and never got up again! What sort of domination is that?:dead

He won the rematches EASILY old man....how many losses has WALDO avenged? How long did he wait to do it, and how fucked was his opponent when he chose to rematch him??

Bye bye to your argument :hi:

[Sakura]

Atleast wlad fighting: wlad 52 fights and 11 years

Lewis 42 fights and 14 years

[Butch Coolidge]

He'd have a much better chance vs "the greats" than what most think. I think Ali would outbox Klitschko just like he outboxed Ken Norton which wasn't easy at all. Tyson fell to a "glass chinned coward" named Buster Douglass. Lennox Lewis decided to hang up the gloves before fighting him. Klitschko has enough skills and punching power that if there was a time machine he would expose a few legends and give some of the real legends a tough fight at the very least. WK is a large man with good movement, excellent power in both hands and well rounded boxing skills, beatable yes, but capable of beating others as well.

[Shamrock]

He won the rematches EASILY old man....how many losses has WALDO avenged? How long did he wait to do it, and how fucked was his opponent when he chose to rematch him??

Bye bye to your argument :hi:

Wlad winning rematches easily too TEENAGE PUP! What the point is, Lennox lost to B-GRADE fighters in him prime......ATG.....:lol: :lol: :lol: fighters he should not have lost to at that stage. Wlad is 31, he got another 7yrs to better Lennox's record, we judge him then! :hi:

[dyolf82]

Being from Kentucky I find this post offensive... Klitschko? Not even top 10. Ali, foreman, lewis, tyson, holmes, spinx, holyfield, (just to name a few in no particular order):patsch

[Malph]

He'd have a much better chance vs "the greats" than what most think. I think Ali would outbox Klitschko just like he outboxed Ken Norton which wasn't easy at all. Tyson fell to a "glass chinned coward" named Buster Douglass. Lennox Lewis decided to hang up the gloves before fighting him. Klitschko has enough skills and punching power that if there was a time machine he would expose a few legends and give some of the real legends a tough fight at the very least. WK is a large man with good movement, excellent power in both hands and well rounded boxing skills, beatable yes, but capable of beating others as well.

This man speaks the truth. Vlad, due to his less than Tex-Cobb like chin, COULD be beaten by many of the past heavyweights. But with his size, power, boxing skills, he'd be a tough matchup for just about all of them.

Being sort of an old fart, I watched Ali, Frazier, Spinks, Holmes and Tyson
growing up. Of them all, I'd only put money on a (prime) Tyson, (prime) Ali or (prime) Holmes to beat him. At his best, Tyson was fast-enough, powerful-enough and skilled enough to get inside Vlad's jab/defense and hurt him. To put Spinks in that list you'd have to be smoking as much crack as Spinks probably was. To get into a "classic" boxer vs. boxer standup boxing match with Vlad would be dangerous for any of them.

[Ring Master]

No.

[Shamrock]

Tyson fell to a "glass chinned coward" named Buster Douglass

How can anyone label this man a "coward":huh

[2smart4u]

He's fast becoming the contemporary greatest heavyweight of all time. Let's see if he can topple man-mountain Valuev. If he does, he could be it.:huh

[cuchulain]

Ali would outbox Klitschko. He was only 3" shorter and about the same reach...on top of that Ali had the chin to withstand Wlad shots and is much faster and much more skilled. Ali would slip Wlad punches and utterly make him silly.

Tyson would KHTFO. Lewis would KO him too. Foreman would KO him. Holmes would have outboxed him. Holyfield UD.

Id pick him to beat Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier and all other previous titlists.


I mostly agree with your assessment. I'm not very sure that he couldn't beat Holyfield, and I'd pick both Rocky and smokin' Joe over Wlad.

Ali would put a very lopsided UD on him.

All that said, he is, by a wide margin, the best heavywt since Lennox retired.

[cuchulain]

Being from Kentucky I find this post offensive... Klitschko? Not even top 10. Ali, foreman, lewis, tyson, holmes, spinx, holyfield, (just to name a few in no particular order):patsch


Spinks?

Are you serious?

I would have as much chance of beating him as Spinks would.

Wlad, at this point, is not an alltime top 10, and Ali would dance rings around him, scoring a late stoppage or UD.

But he is the best out there right now and could have several more years to improve his resume.

But Spinks?

No way, no how, no version.

[Shamrock]

i think wlad has the skills to be great. but we need to see him fight someone that has some solid credability before we make comparisons to other heavies

On the button, thanks! :good

[DamonD]

Sounds fair enough.

He needs to stay sharp. He doesn't want another sudden Sanders-style shock, making some title belt defences then suddenly getting iced by a big underdog. Approach every fight with the importance it deserves.

If he carries on as he's doing, he'll do fine. Might need to deal with King at some point though, can't avoid that forever.

[Muskyrat]

Dunno why u guys keep postin to bring this one back to the top
half decent fighter in a decidedly average division

[Farmboxer]

Vlad has the tools to become the greatest, but he needs to keep cleaning out the heavyweight division to force the other champions to fight him.

[2smart4u]

:blood

[PeterNielsen70]

I agree that Forman was no "blown up cruiserweight" though, in fact he was known as "Big George" back in the day. The ironic thing is that he was only 6'3" if I'm not mistaken (I'm too lazy to go to boxrec..............)

I think he was a little blown up, though. He was often pushed around in the ring by his bigger opponents.

But still its possible for small men, becoming great fighters and champs. Just look at Rocky Balboa, he was only 5'10 at most, I think.:smooch

[Speak.King]

:rofl NoTry, HELL NO!!!

[Speak.King]

Can you be a little bit more expansive on your response beside just saying no???..who do you think the Greatest is?Ali's the greatest, for what he did for the sport. The division is a waste-land, you can't be serious.

[PeterNielsen70]

Ali's the greatest, for what he did for the sport. The division is a waste-land, you can't be serious.

I'll try with a revised top-10:think :huh


Muhammed Ali
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
George Foreman
Joe Lewis
Larry Homes
Evander Holyfield
Rocky Marciano
Joe Frazier
Riddick Bowe (?):deal

[dyolf82]

OK so I was pushing it when I said spinks... but my point got across. The boys back then all had heavy hands to go along with good boxing skills. Klitschko is a very good fighter I personally think that he's still on the outside looking in due to the opponents he's faced and loss to... he should be undefeated. I can't imagine him coming up when ali, foreman, holmes, frazier, norton etc were all in the mix. He'd have atleast 10 losses.