Calzaghe vs Hopkins

[TheChamp1000]

Just seen the trailer

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Looks pretty good, cant wait for the fight :bbb

[Claypole]

That trailer was a bit over the top, especially the small speeded up sequence. To claim that Calzaghe "destroyed" Kessler was pushing it a bit too far as well.

[dan-b]

I hope Hopkins destroys Calzaghe.

[Claypole]

I hope Hopkins destroys Calzaghe.Nobody gets destroyed in this one, it's got stinkfest written all over it. Hopkins is a master at neutralising opponents, whilst Calzaghe is a master at working opponents out.
Joe will end up out neutralising the neutraliser.

[dan-b]

Nobody gets destroyed in this one, it's got stinkfest written all over it. Hopkins is a master at neutralising opponents, whilst Calzaghe is a master at working opponents out.
Joe will end up out neutralising the neutraliser.

I agree it wont be a destruction either way but I still think Hopkins will outpoint Joe. It will be terrible for boxing if Joe wins, an overated WBO boy from a needless division.

[dan-b]

Hoping's about all you can do for B-Hop on this one. All he can do as well.

At least I can stop hoping that overated WBO boy will face a credible opponent ay?

[GazOC]

Calzaghe on points for me, theres also the Tarver-Woods fight the week before.

[dan-b]

not sure about the trailer... it does try and make B-Hop look exciting though - no mean feat.

Bhops is twice the man the golden spoon WBO boy could ever hope to be.

[TheChamp1000]

That trailer was a bit over the top, especially the small speeded up sequence. To claim that Calzaghe "destroyed" Kessler was pushing it a bit too far as well.


Yes they got it the wrong way round.
"Destroyed" Lacy and "Beat" Kessler is right.

[GazOC]

Hopkins is too old to be credible now. i wish joe was fighting Dawson, but kessler was better than Hopkins is now.

I agree. Two loses to lazy arse Taylor and a win over a stone overweight Winky isn't much form. The Tarver win was very impressive, but how focused was Tarver on the fight as he was filming Rocky 6 at the time IIRC?

[GazOC]

Thats fair enough, hardly as bad as Lewis filming instead of training for Rahman. A good win for Hopkins then?

[TFFP]

My only wish is that Mary is not badly hurt in this fight and I truely mean that

Bizarre trailer

[Beatboxer]

This would have been even better had it happened in 2002.

Obviously Hopkins felt that a bout against a blown up Jnr Middle Carl Daniels was of far more importance.

[dwilson]

I just wish Calzaghe would have stepped up and faced a credible opponent.

I can not blame him going fror the money though.

[scurlaruntings]

Calzaghe on points for me, theres also the Tarver-Woods fight the week before.Im looking forward to that. Providing all goes well and Clinton brings his A game he should outwork that stupid scrub to a wide UD. Tarvers a clown. He has no class and his mouth is always writing a cheque that his ass cant cash. Woods by HUMILIATION! :rasta

[scurlaruntings]

This would have been even better had it happened in 2002.

Obviously Hopkins felt that a bout against a blown up Jnr Middle Carl Daniels was of far more importance.Well at least he was undisputed and held all the belts. I believe Daniels was a mandatory. Meanwhile Joe was was coming off a career defining win over Kevin "ceasefire" Mcyntyre! :lol: That bout was so woeful that even Joe didnt want to hit the poor guy and kept looking at the ref for a stoppage. Ah those were the days aye.

[Beatboxer]

Well at least he was undisputed and held all the belts. I believe Daniels was a mandatory. Meanwhile Joe was was coming off a career defining win over Kevin "ceasefire" Mcyntyre! :lol: That bout was so woeful that even Joe didnt want to hit the poor guy and kept looking at the ref for a stoppage. Ah those were the days aye.

Hopkins ducked Calzaghe, but I can see it from his perspective.

Who would want to fight an awkward grossly underrated, quick champion from the divison above you when you would likely get more credit for beating up a blown up welterweight or two from the press?

Hopkins loses that fight and his marketability likely goes down the tubes.

Calzaghe at least tried to make that fight and Hopkins accepeted intially. Before having a couple of nightmares and waking up the next morning to demand twice the amount he origninally accepted.

Besides mock Calzaghes resume all you want. Hopkins has never beaten anyone the calibre of Kessler. And that will be proven with time, trust me on that one.

[scurlaruntings]

We`ve heard tons of excuses of all the mooted clashes with Joe and his socalled names and im not buying any of it.I watched far too much of his WBO drivel over the years to take him seriously.Theres only so many times you can cry wolf.

[Beatboxer]

We`ve heard tons of excuses of all the mooted clashes with Joe and his socalled names and im not buying any of it.I watched far too much of his WBO drivel over the years to take him seriously.Theres only so many times you can cry wolf.

Im going to make a thread later tonight once I get back from Uni on this subject.

I respect your views and knowledge of boxing so ill be keen for your input.

I haven't got time to debate this in depth at the moment but it should be an interesting topic I feel.

[Tony Harrison]

Will Hopkins be able to hurt Calzaghe with his counters? Obviously they won't feel like whiskers on kittens but will they have enough pop to keep Joe off him?

Bearing in mind Calzaghe took some massive shots from Kessler and walked through them I doubt it.

I'm not sure how Bernard will deal with Calzaghe's lightning fast jab either. When he boxes behind it Joe is extremely hard to hit cleanly.

[dwilson]

How many top class pure middle weights did Hopkins fight and beat?

[Beatboxer]

How many top class pure middle weights did Hopkins fight and beat?

Wait for tonight.

Trust me the haters are going to be running for cover.

[dwilson]

Wait for tonight.

Trust me the haters are going to be running for cover.


Mine was a serious question. I'll wait to see what you have to offer and will enjoy the debate. It will be great to see a proper critiqe of the guys opposition.

[GazOC]

How many top class pure middle weights did Hopkins fight and beat?

TBH Hopkins' middlweight defences are a poor bunch, most of his defences are against welters/ jr middles moving up or pointless rematches....

[Benjiabc]

Undoubtedly - it's easy to discredit it because Tarver was off his best due to the weight loss, but Hopkins totally messed him up. Clever tactics, sharp punching, great defence.

Add the fact that Hopkins looked bereft of ideas when he faced Taylor and you can see that the extra weight gave him something back.

I still think that Joe is better than him H2H (even at prime) and has the sort of awkward, unconventional style that Hopkins will have difficulty adapting to.

But i think it's a tactical fight which will bore the shit out of me at 5am and make me regret staying up.


i have the same feeling. i can smell it

[Benjiabc]

Well at least he was undisputed and held all the belts. I believe Daniels was a mandatory. Meanwhile Joe was was coming off a career defining win over Kevin "ceasefire" Mcyntyre! :lol: That bout was so woeful that even Joe didnt want to hit the poor guy and kept looking at the ref for a stoppage. Ah those were the days aye.


are you a british boxing fan or what. hatton calzaghe?

[scurlaruntings]

TBH Hopkins' middlweight defences are a poor bunch, most of his defences are against welters/ jr middles moving up or pointless rematches....This much is true.And he received a tremendous amount of flak because of it after not building on his win over Tito. Merchant used to give him hell in the ring and there verbals were very spiteful. But Hop did things his way and credit to him he won ALL the titles. His tenure as the best man was undisputable.

[scurlaruntings]

are you a british boxing fan or what. hatton calzaghe?Yes i am. Im also a realist. I call it how i see it. Have you seen Joes fight with Kevin Mcyntyre? What were your thoughts on this epic bout?

[brown bomber]

Joe has had some horrendous opponents... Carlos Christie gave a career worst against him.... Tyler Hughes.... Nice.

[GazOC]

His tenure as the best man was undisputable.

Thats true, he was def 'the man' at middleweight and its not his fault that the middles didn't have much strength in depth when he was champ or that the big money fights happened to be the smaller guys moving up (he'd have been a fool not to take them). Bigger challenges were availiable to him if he had of been willing to move up in weight earlier but that was his choice, he made 160 easily so he stayed there. Unlike some I'll never put down a champion for staying at a weight and dominating it over several years, it takes talent, focus and dedication. I'm not a big fan of all the bouncing up and down weight divisions, hand picking from the same clique of oppoents that goes on these days.

[Max Molyneux]

This would have been even better had it happened in 2002.

Obviously Hopkins felt that a bout against a blown up Jnr Middle Carl Daniels was of far more importance.

Hopkins wouldn't of had a chance back In 02 anyway.

Just now he will lose even harder to Joe.:yep

[scurlaruntings]

Totally agree.But Joe didnt do the same. He held the WBO for far too long. All the mooted bouts with the names then that were available from 60 - 75 never happened. Joe and his father and ****** blaimed everyone else and now that his just built on his win over Lacy with a win over the Kessler his the next big thing? Not in my book.

[Max Molyneux]

What next big thing? Regardless of Lacy and Kessler he's clearly a brilliant fighter.

[GazOC]

Theres a fair few poor defences on Calzaghes record but it also includes Woohhall, Brewer, Mitchell, Reid, Lacy, Kessler, Sheika, Eubank. Pretty decent opposition IMHO.

[steelem]

but he's still like watching paint dry.

you could quite easily say that about mayweather b4 the hatton fight

[scurlaruntings]

Theres a fair few poor defences on Calzaghes record but it also includes Woohhall, Brewer, Mitchell, Reid, Lacy, Kessler, Sheika, Eubank. Pretty decent opposition IMHO.Very decent opposition. Bar Eubanks they are all B and C level and all the more reason why he should have been stepping it up ages ago.Joe was supposed to be at 75 over 3 years ago.:roll: Remember his claims that he couldnt make the weight?

[GazOC]

Very decent opposition. Bar Eubanks they are all B and C level and all the more reason why he should have been stepping it up ages ago.Joe was supposed to be at 75 over 3 years ago.:roll: Remember his claims that he couldnt make the weight?

I don't know how many letters you use to rank fighters but it must be a fair few if Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchel and Reid are B and C level, they were all world class fighters (champions in some cases). Are we saying its OK for Hopkins to stay at 160 but not for Calzaghe to stay at 168?

I also remember David Hayes claims he can't make cruiser...;)

[scurlaruntings]

I don't know how many letters you use to rank fighters but it must be a fair few if Woodhall, Brewer, Mitchel and Reid are B and C level, they were all world class fighters (champions in some cases). Are we saying its OK for Hopkins to stay at 160 but not for Calzaghe to stay at 168?

I also remember David Hayes claims he can't make cruiser...;)Davids certainly tight at the weight. Theres no questioning that. Calzaghe has been at 68 for his ENTIRE CAREER.That doesnt sound like a man that has trouble making weight. Now like i said i had no problem with Joe staying at 68. But the bottom line is when it mattered most the bouts never happened. 68 was a wasteland.And yet he would face Ottke.He had tons of great matchups around him and always it was someone elses fault as to why they never happened. There was a time when he was mooted to face Joppy! Even that fell through.:roll:

[GazOC]

What matchups would you have liked to see at 168?

[brown bomber]

Pre championship Calzaghe featured in some of the most 'minging' fights you could wish to see.... He found it so easy he used to showboat and make a right cock of himself. Then they pitch him in with Eubank and its like watching a completely different fighter. Watch his early performances and you'll see a braggart who show boats and can't punch properly. Watch him Vs Lacy and Kessler and you've got a brilliant fighter... Amazing difference.

[brown bomber]

What matchups would you have liked to see? Calzaghe Vs Hopkins, Jones Jnr, Michealzewski, Tarver, Johnson all could have been made with compromise.

[brown bomber]

Pre championship Calzaghe featured in some of the most 'minging' fights you could wish to see.... He found it so easy he used to showboat and make a right cock of himself. Then they pitch him in with Eubank and its like watching a completely different fighter. Watch his early performances and you'll see a braggart who show boats and can't punch properly. Watch him Vs Lacy and Kessler and you've got a brilliant fighter... Amazing difference.:good

[GazOC]

Calzaghe Vs Hopkins, Jones Jnr, Michealzewski, Tarver, Johnson all could have been made with compromise.
You snuck in before I put 'at 168' (which nixes DM, Tarver, Johnson and maybe RJJ) on the end.....:lol:

[brown bomber]

You snuck in before I out 'at 168' (which nixes DM, Tarver, Johnson and maybe RJJ) on the end.....:lol::lol: I'm always quick....

[scurlaruntings]

Calzaghe Vs Hopkins, Jones Jnr, Michealzewski, Tarver, Johnson all could have been made with compromise.Fuck it i would have taken Thomas Tate, Joppy, Glen Johnson, Tito, or Harry Simon. 4 of those five he had semi-confirmed bouts that fell through for one reason or another. ALL would have given him name and star recognition abroad.

[GazOC]

Fuck it i would have taken Thomas Tate, Joppy, Glen Johnson, Tito, or Harry Simon. 4 of those five he had semi-confirmed bouts that fell through for one reason or another. ALL would have given him name and star recognition abroad.

You'd take them (bar Johnson at 175) over Brewer, Woodhall, Reid etc for defences at 168?:huh

[scurlaruntings]

In terms of getting him name recognition abroad that time hell yes. He should have built on his win over an aged Brewer.He didnt.

[Max Molyneux]

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Chumps think Froch could beat Calzaghe!:rofl

[brown_bomber]

I hope Hopkins destroys Calzaghe.


yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee agreed :good

[brown bomber]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Chumps think Froch could beat Calzaghe!:rofl:lol: Thanks what a gay forum.

[brown bomber]

Tito or Simon.... yesh yesh yesh. I'll have some of that.

[dan-b]

Besides mock Calzaghes resume all you want. Hopkins has never beaten anyone the calibre of Kessler. And that will be proven with time, trust me on that one.

This I find funny. People building the strength of Calzaghe's resume around a fighter they believe will one day be great.

[Max Molyneux]

I remember ****** bragging In one of his columns that King asked him about offering Calzaghe a Tito fight around late 2004/early 2005. Man Tito would of been seriously hurt!

[dan-b]

I remember ****** bragging In one of his columns that King asked him about offering Calzaghe a Tito fight around late 2004/early 2005. Man Tito would of been seriously hurt!

Yes because ****** is the mark of integrity.

[scurlaruntings]

I remember ****** bragging In one of his columns that King asked him about offering Calzaghe a Tito fight around late 2004/early 2005. Man Tito would of been seriously hurt!Hey guess what that fight never happened either! Obviously that was King or Titos fault.

[toffeejack]

Hey guess what that fight never happened either! Obviously that was King or Titos fault.

Pathetic :patsch

[scurlaruntings]

Pathetic :patschYou mean Joe not fighting Tito or your post :lol:

[dan-b]

Pathetic :patsch

Of course. How dare anyone speak ill of the messiah Calzaghe?

[toffeejack]

Of course. How dare anyone speak ill of the messiah Calzaghe?

What's pathetic is the constant negative jibs about him.

You and Scurla are obsessed by him, has he shagged any of your birds or something?

I bet it nearly killed you to see him easily beat the previously undefeated Kessler who you probably predicted to win back in November.

[dan-b]

What's pathetic is the constant negative jibs about him.

You and Scurla are obsessed by him, has he shagged any of your birds or something?

I bet it nearly killed you to see him easily beat the previously undefeated Kessler who you probably predicted to win back in November.

Oh the old "jealous, must have shagged your bird" weak retort. No I didn't predict a Kessler win probably because, unlike you, I had been watching boxing since before then. No it didn't kill me I saw what I expected to see, number one beating number two. A good fighter.

[scurlaruntings]

What's pathetic is the constant negative jibs about him.

You and Scurla are obsessed by him, has he shagged any of your birds or something?

I bet it nearly killed you to see him easily beat the previously undefeated Kessler who you probably predicted to win back in November.:blood Ok lets ignore the rest of your post and talk about the boxing part.

Im not a bandwagoner.Im not about to jump on the next big thing or the latest fad just because Joe beat Kessler.Great win no question but it took Joe 10 years to establish his dominance at 68 when his by far been the most talented man at the weight and that includes when Sven was the number 1. His a very talented fighter no question but im hardly going to suddenly forget those great nights in watching him beat up the Pudwills Jiminez`s and Mcyntyres of this world.

Its taken him 10 years to achieve what David Haye has done in half as many fights and im supposed to give him some kudos just because he beat Kessler? Was you singing that same tune when Joe was making those bullshit defences of the WBO too? Or was you a fan of another sport back then?:roll:

[GazOC]

Scurra, you can't just accuse everybody who disagrees with you of being a newcomer to boxing and think that it automatically settles the argument in your favour...;)

[dan-b]

Scurra, you can't just accuse everybody who disagrees with you of being a newcomer to boxing and think that it automatically settles the argument in your favour...;)

Are you skim reading again?;)

[scurlaruntings]

Scurra, you can't just accuse everybody who disagrees with you of being a newcomer to boxing and think that it automatically settles the argument in your favour...;)Of course i can otherwise he wouldnt have made such a childish retort. Either hit me some facts, come construtive or get shown up as another fan boy. Too many posters are fickle around here. Everyone is so quick to simply jump on the next big thing.

[toffeejack]

:blood Ok lets ignore the rest of your post and talk about the boxing part.

Im not a bandwagoner.Im not about to jump on the next big thing or the latest fad just because Joe beat Kessler.Great win no question but it took Joe 10 years to establish his dominance at 68 when his by far been the most talented man at the weight and that includes when Sven was the number 1. His a very talented fighter no question but im hardly going to suddenly forget those great nights in watching him beat up the Pudwills Jiminez`s and Mcyntyres of this world.

Its taken him 10 years to achieve what David Haye has done in half as many fights and im supposed to give him some kudos just because he beat Kessler? Was you singing that same tune when Joe was making those bullshit defences of the WBO too? Or was you a fan of another sport back then?:roll:

Firstly I've followed Joe since even before the Mark Delaney fight and have followed boxing since the late 80's watching Sunday morning highlights of Tyson.

It was frustrating to see those shit defences yes because it was clear he had the talent to fight the best in the world but who the hell could have have fought?

As we all know Hopkins effectively backed out at the last minute after all the verbal agreements, doubling the purse offer.

Toney had moved on from 168 by then as had Jones.

Ottke (what a joke) wanted nothing to do with Calzaghe as we all know would have got taken apart.

The only question mark is the Glen Johnson one. The reasons are justified however, no way did he duck Johnson his head was fucked and the hand injuries weren't helping.

He would have clearly beat Johnson anyway so no chance did he duck him.

He should have fought in America sooner though I'll give you that.

[dan-b]

Firstly I've followed Joe since even before the Mark Delaney fight and have followed boxing since the late 80's watching Sunday morning highlights of Tyson.

It was frustrating to see those shit defences yes because it was clear he had the talent to fight the best in the world but who the hell could have have fought?

As we all know Hopkins effectively backed out at the last minute after all the verbal agreements, doubling the purse offer.

Toney had moved on from 168 by then as had Jones.

Ottke (what a joke) wanted nothing to do with Calzaghe as we all know would have got taken apart.

The only question mark is the Glen Johnson one. The reasons are justified however, no way did he duck Johnson his head was fucked and the hand injuries weren't helping.

He would have clearly beat Johnson anyway so no chance did he duck him.

He should have fought in America sooner though I'll give you that.

Regardless of how shit the fighters were he should have at least stamped his authority on his own division by cleaning up the belts long ago. He also did a lot of talking about moving up to 175 but never did, probably because a certain Mr Jones lay in wait.

[scurlaruntings]

Aha ok now where talking!

Ok you say WHO should he have fought but the bottom line is Joe needed exposure back then. This guys name was linked to almost everyone from 60 to 75. He had bouts with US names like Telesco Tate and Joppy fall through. He had mooted bouts with an unbeaten Eastman, a prime Hopkins Tito Simon Woods Tarver all fall through or fail to occur.He said he couldnt make 68 had 2 fights scheduled with Johnson at 75 and pulled out of both twice, prompting Lacy to refuse to fight Joe unless there was a bonus paid upfront. Lo and behold 3 years after the Johnson farce his still at 68?!

[jc]

Scurlas hated Joe for years, its best to just scroll down past his post on a JC thread... :tong

Joe could have fought a few fighters that owuld have improved his resume, but nobody too special.

Even if he got a unification against Siaca, Beyer or Lucas would that have gained the same attention as his win over Lacy? Nah course it wouldnt.

Calzaghe fought alot of no hopers but and some decent world rated fighters thrown into the mix aswel, and the fact is HE did get that big unification fight, he is on HBO,he is undisputed champion and is fighting the big name in America, all stuff Scurla said would never happen...:deal

[dan-b]

Scurlas hated Joe for years, its best to just scroll down past his post on a JC thread... :tong

Joe could have fought a few fighters that owuld have improved his resume, but nobody too special.

Even if he got a unification against Siaca, Beyer or Lucas would that have gained the same attention as his win over Lacy? Nah course it wouldnt.

Calzaghe fought alot of no hopers but and some decent world rated fighters thrown into the mix aswel, and the fact is HE did get that big unification fight, he is on HBO,he is undisputed champion and is fighting the big name in America, all stuff Scurla said would never happen...:deal

So you're saying Joe knew he would get better exposure from unifications years down the line? I know you guys think he's special but I didn't think it stretched to predicting the future.

[jc]

So you're saying Joe knew he would get better exposure from unifications years down the line? I know you guys think he's special but I didn't think it stretched to predicting the future.

i dont beleive for a second Joe shied away from anyone. Im just saying he didnt fight those guys, but it hasnt done him any harm, some fighters get their dues and big fights at the tail end of their careers.

Bernard Hopkins would be a good example to prove my point.

[GazOC]

Of course i can otherwise he wouldnt have made such a childish retort. Either hit me some facts, come construtive or get shown up as another fan boy. Too many posters are fickle around here. Everyone is so quick to simply jump on the next big thing.

The 'shagged your bird' bit was childish, but you're still using that 'newbie' tactic a hell of lot at the monent.

The facts (as I see them) are that pretty much all the accusations you can level at Calzaghes 168 reign you can level at Hopkins 160 reign. Both defended against a mixed bunch and didn't step up in weight for the bigger challenges.

As for the Tito fight, lets not row over who is lying...its either ****** or King and probably both.;) Titi was too small and too fragile in any case for a tilt at 168.

[GazOC]

Are you skim reading again?;)

Sorry I didn't catch that!!;)

[dan-b]

i dont beleive for a second Joe shied away from anyone. Im just saying he didnt fight those guys, but it hasnt done him any harm, some fighters get their dues and big fights at the tail end of their careers.

Bernard Hopkins would be a good example to prove my point.

I disagree, so you think making all those pointless defences didn't do him any harm? You think constantly talking about a move to 175 but never following through did him no harm? You think expecting the likes of Jones & Hopkins to come to Wales to fight for his bauble did him no harm?

Lets face it Joe was happy making his hometown defences, no harm in that, but lets not retrospectively make him a legend.

[Diablo]

Ill never understand people who spent so much of their time bashing fighters they dislike on forums.

"It took Joe 10 years to where Haye is now" blah blah from the broken record that is scurla.

Im a big fan of Hopkins, Calzaghe and Haye but i just cant understand this crusade against Calzaghe people are obsessed with.

The man his never lost a fight and beat many class operators before his unification fights with Lacy and Kessler. Ie Eubank, Brewer, Shieka, Mitchell, Woodhall, Reid...

He DID NOT get embarrased by an ancient Carl Thompson or lose all his titles to Jermain Taylor.

[scurlaruntings]

The 'shagged your bird' bit was childish, but you're still using that 'newbie' tactic a hell of lot at the monent.

The facts (as I see them) are that pretty much all the accusations you can level at Calzaghes 168 reign you can level at Hopkins 160 reign. Both defended against a mixed bunch and didn't step up in weight for the bigger challenges.

As for the Tito fight, lets not row over who is lying...its either ****** or King and probably both.;) Titi was too small and too fragile in any case for a tilt at 168.Agreed. BUT Joe made no attempt to unifiy as Hop did and he made no attempt to stamp his authority over 68. His was just another case of right time right place. I just think its rather backwards how everyone seems to be ready to jump on board the bandwagon and instantly forget the past as though it has no bearing on the future.

[dan-b]

But he is a great fighter with a sub-standard resume.

It's because of this view that we will never reach a compromise. It's the same argument the Wlad fanatics tout.

[GazOC]

I think how you rate Calzaghes career depends on what you think of Brewer, Mitchell, Woodhall etc. No one disputes the Pudwells and McIntyres etc were total waste of time but I think Calzaghe beat enough decent fighters to be considered to have a reasonably good tenure as 168 champ. Not stand out or great but very decent. He was unquestionably the best fighter in his division for a large part of the last 10 years, I don't blame him for not going to Germany to fight Otkke to unify, that was a robbery waiting to happen.

[Cobbler]

Agreed. BUT Joe made no attempt to unifiy as Hop did and he made no attempt to stamp his authority over 68.

Are you saying that he hasn't now unified or stamped his authority on the 168 division?

Or that he should have done it earlier?

If it's the second then it as least bears pointing out that Calzaghe is still younger than when Hopkins won his second title at Middleweight.

[scurlaruntings]

Are you saying that he hasn't now unified or stamped his authority on the 168 division?

Or that he should have done it earlier?

If it's the second then it as least bears pointing out that Calzaghe is still younger than when Hopkins won his second title at Middleweight.The later. Age is immaterial here. Hopkins career never blossomed until he was in his late 30`s and he was always in Jones shadow when they were both at 160. Plus he doesnt boast as much physical talent as Joe did bearing in mind Joes solid amatuer pedigree.

[dan-b]

Are you saying that he hasn't now unified or stamped his authority on the 168 division?

Or that he should have done it earlier?

If it's the second then it as least bears pointing out that Calzaghe is still younger than when Hopkins won his second title at Middleweight.

Theres no comparison. Hopkins actively seeked unification it's all he talked about after every fight. He just refused to sell his soul to Don King which is why he was forced to wait.

[Diablo]

Agreed. BUT Joe made no attempt to unifiy as Hop did and he made no attempt to stamp his authority over 68. His was just another case of right time right place. I just think its rather backwards how everyone seems to be ready to jump on board the bandwagon and instantly forget the past as though it has no bearing on the future.

Hopkins was lucky he got caught up in Don kings "Trinidad Middleweight unification tourney". Hopkins didnt seek it out or make it happen...it was handed to him on a silver platter by King.

[dan-b]

Hopkins was lucky he got caught up in Don kings "Trinidad Middleweight unification tourney". Hopkins didnt seek it out or make it happen...it was handed to him on a silver platter by King.

Thats horseballs & you know it. King had to have Hopkins in it because he held a belt. King honestly believed Trinidad would sweep Hopkins aside. Hopkins was widely regarded as the best middleweight in the world before the tournament. He did actively seek unification I suggest you do some research & listen to some post fight interviews.

[scurlaruntings]

Hopkins held the IBF since Jones left 160. He then beat Keith Holmes for the WBC. He then beat Tito who held the WBA.He upset all the odds that were stacked in Tito`s favor who was assumed to be the MAN at 160. Hop took him apart. Thats what GREAT fighters do. Meanwhile.. Joe was busy just making defences of the WBO. Theres no luck involved in any of that. Hopkins fought for what he wanted. There was much financial reward to gain aswell as a unification. Thats why the fight happened. The reality was no one apart from King gave a crap about his middleweight tourney.

[dan-b]

very true:good

Is that the best you can do? He doesn't need a cheer leader.

[Diablo]

The way i see it is both Calzaghe and Hopkins have similar resumes and I have big respect for both. They are both in that elite club of being a 10+ year world champ.

Hopkins may have the higher profile wins but they were vs natural welterweights plus Calzaghe is undefeated...so it balances itself out for me.

[ravi B]

they got it the wrong way round he beat kessler and destroyed lacy

[dan-b]

The way i see it is both Calzaghe and Hopkins have similar resumes and I have big respect for both. They are both in that elite club of being a 10+ year world champ.

Hopkins may have the higher profile wins but they were vs natural welterweights plus Calzaghe is undefeated...so it balances itself out for me.

Calzaghe wants to place himself as an elite fighter but while Hopkins & Jones were cementing legacies at 160 & 175 respectively Calzaghe was defending the WBO. Calzaghe had far more opportunities open to him than Hopkins did but never took them.

[Diablo]

Are u forgetting Calzaghe is the younger fighter?

Hopkins wasnt cementing any legacy until he beat Tito at age 36!

[dan-b]

Are u forgetting Calzaghe is the younger fighter?

Hopkins wasnt cementing any legacy until he beat Tito at age 36!

Why do you keep bringing age into it? Joe has stated he may only have a year or two left in boxing.

[scurlaruntings]

Are u forgetting Calzaghe is the younger fighter?

Hopkins wasnt cementing any legacy until he beat Tito at age 36!Thats called opportunity.It didnt knock until he was 36.It says alot about Hopkins professionalism that despite being a natural light heavy he did so much roadwork that even in his late 30`s he was able to make 156. As iv said to already age here is completely immaterial.

[Diablo]

Why do you keep bringing age into it? Joe has stated he may only have a year or two left in boxing.

Im bringing age into it because you forget Calzaghe is a younger generation compared to Jones/Hopkins and it takes a european fighter alot longer to get respect at world level.

Would u risk your rep and fight a dangerous welsh ko artist for fuck all money?

[dan-b]

Im bringing age into it because you forget Calzaghe is a younger generation compared to Jones/Hopkins and it takes a european fighter alot longer to get respect at world level.

Would u risk your rep and fight a dangerous welsh ko artist for fuck all money?

More horseballs. So by fighting McIntyre, Pudwill, Jimenez etc was to get him resect at world level was it?

[Diablo]

More horseballs. So by fighting McIntyre, Pudwill, Jimenez etc was to get him resect at world level was it?
You've got a thing for bollocks allright..your clearly hanging from hopkins sack.

WHy constantly mention the worst opponents in his career...does it pain u to mention the others? Brewer, shieka, mitchell, reid, woodhall, eubank.

Why did Hopkins cement his legacy vs Hakkar, daniels, council, bo James? :lol:


Cant u just accept they both fought a few stiffs u $%*5£*% hater:patsch

[dan-b]

You've got a thing for bollocks allright..your clearly hanging from hopkins sack.

WHy constantly mention the worst opponents in his career...does it pain u to mention the others? Brewer, shieka, mitchell, reid, woodhall, eubank.

Why did Hopkins cement his legacy vs Hakkar, daniels, council, bo James? :lol:


Cant u just accept they both fought a few stiff u fucking retarded hater:patsch

Brewer? A man that was starched in 3 by middleweight Antwun Echols a man Hopkins beat twice.

Who are you calling a fucking retarded hater anyway? How about we meet up & you can say that to my face just before I stick my fist down your throat you cunt?

I'm not hanging from anyone's sack I just don't like the way people are retrospectively making Joe out to be some kind of legend. Lets say I forgive Joe for all his shit defences, of a shit belt, in a shit division. Why did he continually talk about a move to 175 but never make it? Answer me that.

[Diablo]

Im not making Joe out to be a legend, i just feel his resume is very similar to Hopkins..something u cannot concede. The proposed jump up to 175 fell through after the injurys ko'd the Johnson match. It took Nard a long time make the jump in weight as well...Joe is doing it now after cleaning out his divison.

And i seriously doubt you would be fast or skilled enough to get your fist anywhere near my throat, unless you've practiced mma for 5+ years like i have.

[dan-b]

Im not making Joe out to be a legend, i just feel his resume is very similar to Hopkins..something u cannot concede. The proposed jump up to 175 fell through after the injurys ko'd the Johnson match. It took Nard a long time make the jump in weight as well...Joe is doing it now after cleaning out his divison.

And i seriously doubt you would be fast or skilled enough to get your fist anywhere near my throat, unless you've practiced mma for 5+ years like i have.

No so called elite fighter has as padded a record as Calzaghe besides maybe Hatton. Do you not at least think it took him an inordinate amount of time to clean up his division?

It won't be necessary, just cool it with the personal abuse. It was completely uncalled for.

[Diablo]

Sorry about that, wasnt my intention to be abusive.

It took him ages and it was very frustrating.. mr ****** has to take some of that blame though and his fragile hands. Hopkins took a while to unify as well though..but promoters play a part.

Hattons record is far more padded, WBU defences hold no value..WBO is at least a real title.

Im a fan of both Nard and Joe and seriously dont know who ill be rooting for until that bell rings.

[dan-b]

Sorry about that, wasnt my intention to be abusive.

It took him ages and it was very frustrating.. mr ****** has to take some of that blame though and his fragile hands. Hopkins took a while to unify as well though..but promoters play a part.

Hattons record is far more padded, WBU defences hold no value..WBO is at least a real title.

Im a fan of both Nard and Joe and seriously dont know who ill be rooting for until that bell rings.

No hard feelings. I just feel someone with Joes talent should have been a superstar. He had the potential, he should have ditched ****** years ago. The WBO being a "real" title is debatable but lets not go there.:lol:

Personally I hope Hopkins puts on a clinique against Joe then retires.

[TFFP]

I rate Joe Calzaghe, he's good at boxing

[mattress]

I rate Joe Calzaghe, he's good at boxing

No shit Einstein! I just hope he puts Hopkins into retirement. And as for the idiot who claimed that a Calzaghe win 'would be bad for boxing', what the hell are you smoking? BHop was, maybe still is, a master technician but his fights are fast becoming borefests. I'd rather watch Calzaghe fight any day of the week.

[steelem]

No shit Einstein! I just hope he puts Hopkins into retirement. And as for the idiot who claimed that a Calzaghe win 'would be bad for boxing', what the hell are you smoking? BHop was, maybe still is, a master technician but his fights are fast becoming borefests. I'd rather watch Calzaghe fight any day of the week.

your right in many parts i hope calzaghe puts hopkins into retirement but if you watch the hopkins tarver fight then you have to think agaion - i really hope joe does the job on the cocky yank

[GazOC]

I rate Joe Calzaghe, he's good at boxing

I hope there was something lost in translation in that pearl of wisdom?;)

[dan-b]

No shit Einstein! I just hope he puts Hopkins into retirement. And as for the idiot who claimed that a Calzaghe win 'would be bad for boxing', what the hell are you smoking? BHop was, maybe still is, a master technician but his fights are fast becoming borefests. I'd rather watch Calzaghe fight any day of the week.

I'd rather Hopkins, a man I respect & has strived hard for what he wanted to achieve, win than an overhyped WBO boy from a needless, weak division.

Calzaghe really is amazing he seems to have been able to erase peoples memories with two good wins. Because he did the unprecedented thing of fighing the number two in the division he seems to now be deemed a legend.

Fact is, no matter how much people like to talk it up his win over Kessler will never hold as much historical significance as Hopkins win over Tito to unify the middleweight title. This is not mine, Hopkins or anyone elses fault but his & his alone.

He could have, and should have, been involved in equally epic bouts but he chose to stay on safe ground & defend the WBO. History will not treat him kindly because of that.

[Diablo]

Hopkins may have become more technical due to his diminished workrate but the fact he is still fighting at p4p and world level is outstanding.

Jones and Trinidad are just names now..fooling certain people that they can compete but Hopkins is still the real deal.

[TFFP]

I hope there was something lost in translation in that pearl of wisdom?;)
I'm just putting it out there

I can't wait for this beatdown. I only wish I was back home, they will be partying into the night at the Newbridge Arms :yep

[steelem]

I'm just putting it out there

I can't wait for this beatdown. I only wish I was back home, they will be partying into the night at the Newbridge Arms :yep


I think we will all be partying that night

[dan-b]

I'm just putting it out there

I can't wait for this beatdown. I only wish I was back home, they will be partying into the night at the Newbridge Arms :yep

There will be no beat down. It's about as likely as Hopkins knocking Joe out, it would be great to see but won't happen. I will enjoy seeing Joe's dad crying when Hopkins roughs his son up & the ref does nothing because it's not one of ******'s mates though.:good

[TFFP]

See steelem - they won't be partying in Watford

Home of the Official St Bernard English Fanclub, chaired by a certain Dan-b

[steelem]

There will be no beat down. It's about as likely as Hopkins knocking Joe out, it would be great to see but won't happen. I will enjoy seeing Joe's dad crying when Hopkins roughs his son up & the ref does nothing because it's not one of ******'s mates though.:good

i think its a 50-50 dan-b you never know calzaghe has never fought anyone as good as hopkins

[dan-b]

See steelem - they won't be partying in Watford

Home of the Official St Bernard English Fanclub, chaired by a certain Dan-b

I know you've missed me but you can do better than that.

i think its a 50-50 dan-b you never know calzaghe has never fought anyone as good as hopkins

I don't dispute for a second it will close. I just fancy Hopkins to nick it & to make Joe feel very uncomfortable in there.

[jc]

Its funny when Calzaghe haters like Dan and Scurla keep bringing up the WBO the take away from Calzaghes achievments, even though if you look the difference between Joe's 20 defences and hopkins 20 defences is minimal!

[dan-b]

Its funny when Calzaghe haters like Dan and Scurla keep bringing up the WBO the take away from Calzaghes achievments, even though if you look the difference between Joe's 20 defences and hopkins 20 defences is minimal!

I can safely say no one Hopkins fought was worse than Tocker Pudwill. Morrade Hakkar comes closest but at least he had the savvy to last a few rounds. My main beef is the way Joe is getting all these accolades now for doing something he should have done years ago. Plus he never made a move to 175 because he would have been humiliated by Jones.

[scurlaruntings]

Hakkar at the time was his mandatory. Hopkins naturally wanted to keep all his belts and thats why the fight happened. Joe fought Pudwill because Thomas Tate retired through injury and Pudwill was brought in as a late replacement.

Pudwill was just a club fighter. I dont know where on earth ****** found him from.But ironically he was another Sven Ottke left over.

[jc]

I can safely say no one Hopkins fought was worse than Tocker Pudwill. Morrade Hakkar comes closest but at least he had the savvy to last a few rounds. My main beef is the way Joe is getting all these accolades now for doing something he should have done years ago. Plus he never made a move to 175 because he would have been humiliated by Jones.

How old was Hopkins when he became undisputed champ again?

Like I have said before, a fighters career will peak later than others. Some a stars from fight 1, some have to work years nbefore they secure the big fight. To say Calzaghe could have unified ealier is naive, because who was he going to unify against...?!

His fights against Lacy and Kessler were bigger event, more exciting and easier to make than a Calzaghe vs Beyer, Lucas, Ottke fight ever was!

Roy Jones may have beaten him, but Roy Jones could beat most middleweights/light heavyweights in history, hardly a good case to slate Calzaghe.





And Tocker Pudwill was an extremely late stand in!:good

[scurlaruntings]

How old was Hopkins when he became undisputed champ again?

Like I have said before, a fighters career will peak later than others. Some a stars from fight 1, some have to work years nbefore they secure the big fight. To say Calzaghe could have unified ealier is naive, because who was he going to unify against...?!

His fights against Lacy and Kessler were bigger event, more exciting and easier to make than a Calzaghe vs Beyer, Lucas, Ottke fight ever was!

Roy Jones may have beaten him, but Roy Jones could beat most middleweights/light heavyweights in history, hardly a good case to slate Calzaghe.





And Tocker Pudwill was an extremely late stand in!:goodYes but Hopkins went out of his way to unify.By the time the middleweight tourney ended King didnt have a choice but for Tito and Hop to fight. Joe made NO ATTEMPTS whatsoever to unify.He simply didnt care about establishing his dominance as the premier man at 68 because he was making easy money and easy defences of the WBO.

[dan-b]

How old was Hopkins when he became undisputed champ again?

Like I have said before, a fighters career will peak later than others. Some a stars from fight 1, some have to work years nbefore they secure the big fight. To say Calzaghe could have unified ealier is naive, because who was he going to unify against...?!

His fights against Lacy and Kessler were bigger event, more exciting and easier to make than a Calzaghe vs Beyer, Lucas, Ottke fight ever was!

Roy Jones may have beaten him, but Roy Jones could beat most middleweights/light heavyweights in history, hardly a good case to slate Calzaghe.





And Tocker Pudwill was an extremely late stand in!:good

Hopkins always wanted to unify, just listen to some post fight interviews, he was just frozen out by King because Holmes & Joppy were making him good money with the other two proper belts.

So you're saying Joe only hit his peak with the Lacy fight are you? So all those meaningless defences were necessary were they? Even when Joe was apparently struggling to make 168 he kept defending his bauble.

At least Hopkins gave the Jones fight a shot & would have done so again had the money been right. Joe just talked a lot, his unbeaten run is very cynical in my opinion. I'd have more respect for him if he had one "L" on his record handed to him by Jones than an extra five "W" against crap opposition.

[jc]

Yes but Hopkins went out of his way to unify.By the time the middleweight tourney ended King didnt have a choice but for Tito and Hop to fight. Joe made NO ATTEMPTS whatsoever to unify.He simply didnt care about establishing his dominance as the premier man at 68 because he was making easy money and easy defences of the WBO.

:blood
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Calzaghe has always been the biggest name around at 68, until Lacy that is. Hopkins was never, Tito was his payday, thats why he fought him nothing to do with anything else.

[mattress]

I'd rather Hopkins, a man I respect & has strived hard for what he wanted to achieve, win than an overhyped WBO boy from a needless, weak division.

I realise that you appreciate Calzaghe as a boxer but to say that his opposition will predict the outcome of this bout is rather naive. Like many, I wish Calzaghe was plying his trade in a different era or fighters, such as Hopkins hadn't ducked him four or five years ago, when this fight would have much more significance.

Calzaghe is undoubtedly a great, great fighter, that is unquestionable. He sometimes loses his head during fights and gets stuck in the trenches rather than step back and use the tools that most fighters dream of having, but, to me, that is part of his appeal.

Like I said, I wish this fight would have happens a few years ago, or that Calzaghe had the opportunity to fight Benn or Jones but we really shouldn't hold that against him.

Boxing is a tough game, as we all know, and it's appeal is obvious. That is the reason why we all come here and fight like cat and dog over our favourite fighters. I just hope that we can all agree that these guys get all the credit that they deserve for giving us such enjoyment and pain....even when we don't appreciate their offerings.

Let's get ready to rumble.

[dan-b]

:blood
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Calzaghe has always been the biggest name around at 68, until Lacy that is. Hopkins was never, Tito was his payday, thats why he fought him nothing to do with anything else.

I think you'll find the general consensus from after the Glen Johnson fight was that Hopkins was the worlds best middleweight.

[mattress]

I think you'll find the general consensus from after the Glen Johnson fight was that Hopkins was the worlds best middleweight.

Of course he was but I don't think that was what JC was trying to contradict.

[dan-b]

Of course he was but I don't think that was what JC was trying to contradict.

Nah he just wanted an excuse to post a picture of messiah Calzaghe & the man all Calzaghe zealots are praying will one day be great. 168 is a pointless division & kept JC safe for years. Jones would have dealt with him in style, shame Joe never had the balls to step up.

[jc]

Dan, you a full of rubbish mate. Ask yourself why he was calling for unification, it had nothing to do with proving who was the best. Hopkins was the Winky Wright of the middleweight division, talented, arguably the best, but a spoiler who had no fans and was making shit money and had to travel around defending his belt to get by. no Tito fight, meant no money.

Joe Calzaghe though was the biggest name at 168 albeit a very un-famous division. nobody realistically thought a rival champion could beat him until Jeff Lacy. And Joe Calzaghe did fight Jeff Lacy if i remember rightly.

Anyone who thinks Joe Calzaghe didnt want to unify is naive. because not only has he unified, but against younger, more dangerous champions that the Germans of five years ago...

[jc]

Nah he just wanted an excuse to post a picture of messiah Calzaghe & the man all Calzaghe zealots are praying will one day be great. 168 is a pointless division & kept JC safe for years. Jones would have dealt with him in style, shame Joe never had the balls to step up.

its pointless arguing with someone who refuses to look at the bigger picture, and see what is really in front of them.

its the equilavent to going up to Pope and saying 'Nah mate, your barking up the wrong tree, there's no such thing as God.'. Even though its true id doubt he'll let it sink in.

[dan-b]

Dan, you a full of rubbish mate. Ask yourself why he was calling for unification, it had nothing to do with proving who was the best. Hopkins was the Winky Wright of the middleweight division, talented, arguably the best, but a spoiler who had no fans and was making shit money and had to travel around defending his belt to get by. no Tito fight, meant no money.

Joe Calzaghe though was the biggest name at 168 albeit a very un-famous division. nobody realistically thought a rival champion could beat him until Jeff Lacy. And Joe Calzaghe did fight Jeff Lacy if i remember rightly.

Anyone who thinkg Joe Calzaghe didnt want ti unify is naive. because not only has he unified, but against younger, more dangerous champions that the Germans of five years ago...

So this is the way you justify years of crap defences is it? Before the unification fights he talked about a move to 175. Why did this not happen when he was apparently struggling to make 168? It seems to be a question you Calzaghe fanatics are unable to answer.

[mattress]

168 is a pointless division & kept JC safe for years. Jones would have dealt with him in style, shame Joe never had the balls to step up.

Unfortunately the only credability being lost here is yours. I always considered you a well measured and intelligent poster too.

[jc]

Every champion who holds his belt for a long time will have some shit defences, ill glady point out Joe Louis', Larry Holmes, Ricardo Lopez's and even bernard Hopkins' record to illustrate this.

Joe Clazaghe has fought some very good fighters aswel, but that is overlooked by the blind haters to concentrate on the Tocker Pudwills...

[mattress]

Jones would have dealt with him in style

I think he may well have but to say that he'd have presented Jones with no problems just displays ignorance beyond belief. You can find a hundred quotes, from great fighters, showing their appreciation for the tactical nous and skill of Calzaghe. You can come to ESB and find a thousand quotes, from idiots, showing nothing but disdain for his obvious talent. I often scratch my head around here.:patsch

[dan-b]

Unfortunately the only credability being lost here is yours. I always considered you a well measured and intelligent poster too.

I've tried tackling the Calzaghe debate reasonably on numerous occasions but just get abuse.

Every champion who holds his belt for a long time will have some shit defences, ill glady point out Joe Louis', Larry Holmes, Ricardo Lopez's and even bernard Hopkins' record to illustrate this.

Joe Clazaghe has fought some very good fighters aswel, but that is overlooked by the blind haters to concentrate on the Tocker Pudwills...

Yeah but it's not as if Joe Louis or Larry Holmes could have moved division is it? Unlike Joe, the reasons for which you are yet to venture.

I think he may well have but to say that he'd have presented Jones with no problems just displays ignorance beyond belief. You can find a hundred quotes, from great fighters, showing their appreciation for the tactical nous and skill of Calzaghe. You can come to ESB and find a thousand quotes, from idiots, showing nothing but disdain for his obvious talent. I often scratch my head around here.:patsch

I never said he wouldn't have posed Jones problems but prime Roy would have first moved away parrying Joes shots & caught him with accurate straight shots. Then as the fight progressed & Joe got frustrated Jones would have started to land lead left uppercuts & harder rights that could well have stopped him late.

[TFFP]

Hopkins was crap against Roy Jones anyway, not like it would make a difference if Joe lost to him. Doesn't seem to be held against St Bernard does it?

[dan-b]

Hopkins was crap against Roy Jones anyway, not like it would make a difference if Joe lost to him. Doesn't seem to be held against St Bernard does it?

You really are missing the point aren't you son? I would have MORE respect for Joe if he'd taken a fight against Jones.

[mattress]

I never said he wouldn't have posed Jones problems but prime Roy would have first moved away parrying Joes shots & caught him with accurate straight shots. Then as the fight progressed & Joe got frustrated Jones would have started to land lead left uppercuts & harder rights that could well have stopped him late.

I cannot argue with your assessment as I don't know how it would have panned out....and never will know. I am a great fan of RJJ but I am 100% certain that a fight with JC would not have been a walkover like some here predict.

[mattress]

I would have MORE respect for Joe if he'd taken a fight against Jones.

What did happen?? Sorry for my ignorance.

[dan-b]

I cannot argue with your assessment as I don't know how it would have panned out....and never will know. I am a great fan of RJJ but I am 100% certain that a fight with JC would not have been a walkover like some here predict.

Nope we'll never know because Joe wasn't prepared to leave his little safe haven unlike Jones. A true modern day great.

[dan-b]

What did happen?? Sorry for my ignorance.

With what? Sorry I don't understand your question.

[mattress]

Joe wasn't prepared to leave his little safe haven unlike Jones.

I didn't realise Roy was such a well-travelled boxer. I thought he never fought outside the US. I'd better go and check BoxRec!

[mattress]

With what? Sorry I don't understand your question.

Regarding the proposed fight between the two (RJJ and JC). Did JC decline the fight?

[dan-b]

I didn't realise Roy was such a well-travelled boxer. I thought he never fought outside the US. I'd better go and check BoxRec!

While your there compare the two resumes. I was referring to his safe haven of the 168 division not the logistical element.

[dan-b]

Regarding the proposed fight between the two (RJJ and JC). Did JC decline the fight?

Nah JC never chased it, presumably because he was happy making money defending the WBO at home under the pretense of a great fighter. Joe seemed to think the worlds best should come to him despite having never heard of him.

[TFFP]

No, your are perfectly correct

Roy Jones loves the home cooking too. Just like St Bernard. Well actually, the saint has left Yankland a whole twice so we shouldn't be too harsh. Not like that Eurobum Calzaghe, I mean he's only left his safe haven...wait for it...twice

Theres no way they should be judged by the same standards mind :-(

[mattress]

Nah JC never chased it, presumably because he was happy making money defending the WBO at home under the pretense of a great fighter.

Regardless of resume, do you think he is a great fighter? Do you regard Hopkins as a great fighter?

[dan-b]

No, your are perfectly correct

Roy Jones loves the home cooking too. Just like St Bernard. Well actually, the saint has left Yankland a whole twice so we shouldn't be too harsh. Not like that Eurobum Calzaghe, I mean he's only left his safe haven...wait for it...twice

Theres no way they should be judged by the same standards mind :-(

That wasn't the basis for my argument. Read the posts. I'm still waiting for reasons as to why Joe never stepped up. Jones didn't just talk, he acted. He soon realised 168 was a barron wasteland so stepped up to 175, won all the proper belts there, then even won a heavyweight belt. An offer was even put on the table for a fight with Lewis but Lennox had already decided he was going to retire.

Meanwhile weight drained Joe kept defending the WBO while talking about being a great fighter.

[dan-b]

Regardless of resume, do you think he is a great fighter? Do you regard Hopkins as a great fighter?

It's interesting that when JC fanatics run out of answers they go on the attack. I still have no answer as to why Joe never stepped up despite claiming to be struggling to make weight. I'll answer your question if & when you answer mine.

[TFFP]

That wasn't the basis for my argument. Read the posts. I'm still waiting for reasons as to why Joe never stepped up. Jones didn't just talk, he acted. He soon realised 168 was a barron wasteland so stepped up to 175, won all the proper belts there, then even won a heavyweight belt. An offer was even put on the table for a fight with Lewis but Lennox had already decided he was going to retire.

Meanwhile weight drained Joe kept defending the WBO while talking about being a great fighter.
Why is he being compared to Roy Jones anyway? As far as I know, Joe ain't fighting Roy Jones. Everybody knows old china chin has a better resume, he was incredible in his prime

If we want to talk about stepping up, and resumes stick to Hopkins. I don't blame you for attempting this illusion though, since Joe/Mary's resumes virtually mirror each other

[dan-b]

Why is he being compared to Roy Jones anyway? As far as I know, Joe ain't fighting Roy Jones. Everybody knows old china chin has a better resume, he was incredible in his prime

If we want to talk about stepping up, and resumes stick to Hopkins. I don't blame you for attempting this illusion though, since Joe/Mary's resumes virtually mirror each other

What illusion? Hopkins stepped up to light heavy & beat who was considered "the man". He also already fought Jones & lost. He'd beaten Glen Johnson a man Joe couldn't bring himself to fight because he was too busy crying about the wife he cheated on. He also twice beat Antwun Echols, a middleweight who starched Brewer in three who's fight with Joe is considered one of his defining fights.

[toffeejack]

What illusion? Hopkins stepped up to light heavy & beat who was considered "the man". He also already fought Jones & lost. He'd beaten Glen Johnson a man Joe couldn't bring himself to fight because he was too busy crying about the wife he cheated on. He also twice beat Antwun Echols, a middleweight who starched Brewer in three who's fight with Joe is considered one of his defining fights.

No one but Joe knows the reasons for not stepping up sooner but hes hinted at the past at wanting to unify 168 before doing it. In fairness he's stuck to his word there even though the unification took a long time to happen.

What is your opinion on Bhop ducking Calzaghe also? You state that Calzgahe is doing now what he should have done years ago, the same must go for Hopkins over this fight also right?

[TFFP]

What illusion? Hopkins stepped up to light heavy & beat who was considered "the man". He also already fought Jones & lost. He'd beaten Glen Johnson a man Joe couldn't bring himself to fight because he was too busy crying about the wife he cheated on. He also twice beat Antwun Echols, a middleweight who starched Brewer in three who's fight with Joe is considered one of his defining fights.
He lost against Roy Jones, he got completely dominated. Congratulations. Kudos for taking the fight, but he got whooped...next

Glen Johnson was a nobody at the time. This is one you look back on and it looks decent, Kessler will be the same. Even so, Glen Johnson is nothing special. Decent win

Antwun Echols is a better win than Eubank/Lacy/Reid? He beat Brewer, but the guy that got whooped by Anthony Mundine, a fringe fighter at 168? We can both play the discrediting game

He did fight Robert Allen 56 times though. Plus he lost to Jermain Taylor, a very sloppy fighter. Or do we just forgot about losses? :lol:

This all comes back to what I said. The resumes are similar. Loads of defenses in mediocre divisions. A few defining wins, Trinidad/Tarver/De La Hoya vs Eubank/Kessler/Lacy

Nothing in it

[dan-b]

No one but Joe knows the reasons for not stepping up sooner but hes hinted at the past at wanting to unify 168 before doing it. In fairness he's stuck to his word there even though the unification took a long time to happen.

What is your opinion on Bhop ducking Calzaghe also? You state that Calzgahe is doing now what he should have done years ago, the same must go for Hopkins over this fight also right?

Yup it's regrettable the fight never happened. The risk/reward ratio was poor for Hopkins here. A fight away from home, for a crap belt against a highly skilled opponent. The fact Hopkins will face him now at 43 makes it all less relevant. And before any of you zealots say a word, YES I WILL GIVE JOE FULL CREDIT IF HE WINS.

If Joe had really wanted to unify before he could have done. I don't understand this theory. It's not as if he knew one day better fighters would hold the belts. What would he have done, sat around waiting for better opponents to win the belts forever while at the same claiming to be p4p?

[mattress]

It's interesting that when JC fanatics run out of answers they go on the attack. I still have no answer as to why Joe never stepped up despite claiming to be struggling to make weight. I'll answer your question if & when you answer mine.

Sorry for my question seeming like an attack but I really am interested in your view. It seems that to qualify as a great fighter, to you, you must win multiple divisions. I just happen to disagree with you theory, that's all. Don't take it personally, I am not the keeper of great boxing wisdom!

I often wonder why the UK has failed to produce more, multi-division champions. I really don't know the answer but I am open to suggetions that may explain it.

[dan-b]

He lost against Roy Jones, he got completely dominated. Congratulations. Kudos for taking the fight, but he got whooped...next

Glen Johnson was a nobody at the time. This is one you look back on and it looks decent, Kessler will be the same. Even so, Glen Johnson is nothing special. Decent win

Antwun Echols is a better win than Eubank/Lacy/Reid? He beat Brewer, but the guy that got whooped by Anthony Mundine, a fringe fighter at 168? We can both play the discrediting game

He did fight Robert Allen 56 times though. Plus he lost to Jermain Taylor, a very sloppy fighter. Or do we just forgot about losses? :lol:

This all comes back to what I said. The resumes are similar. Loads of defenses in mediocre divisions. A few defining wins, Trinidad/Tarver/De La Hoya vs Eubank/Kessler/Lacy

Nothing in it

He didn't get dominated. Have you even seen the fight? I might watch it again now actually.

You don't know Kessler will go on to do anything, Johnson has.

The point is Echols wasn't a 168 fighter & neither was Brewer but Joe sure made a meal out of beating him.

I still believe he won the second Taylor fight as do most others.

De La Hoya & Trinidad are two truly great fighters & cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Lacy & Kessler. A hype job & a maybe man.

[dan-b]

Sorry for my question seeming like an attack but I really am interested in your view. It seems that to qualify as a great fighter, to you, you must win multiple divisions. I just happen to disagree with you theory, that's all. Don't take it personally, I am not the keeper of great boxing wisdom!

I often wonder why the UK has failed to produce more, multi-division champions. I really don't know the answer but I am open to suggetions that may explain it.

On the contrary. I am well known for my dislike of the divison hopping fad, however, it was Joe himself who talked about moving division. Like many of you have said on numerous occasions Joe was "the man" at 168 despite not unifying so he really had nothing to prove & could have stepped up years ago. Plus he had also said he was struggling to make weight so the move seemed logical.

[toffeejack]

Yup it's regrettable the fight never happened. The risk/reward ratio was poor for Hopkins here. A fight away from home, for a crap belt against a highly skilled opponent. The fact Hopkins will face him now at 43 makes it all less relevant. And before any of you zealots say a word, YES I WILL GIVE JOE FULL CREDIT IF HE WINS.

If Joe had really wanted to unify before he could have done. I don't understand this theory. It's not as if he knew one day better fighters would hold the belts. What would he have done, sat around waiting for better opponents to win the belts forever while at the same claiming to be p4p?

I dunno mate maybe he could have unified sooner but you know ****** is a snake and all the politics that go on no one really knows.

I think this will be a very scrappy fight though, Hopkins is a great but is too old to take the fight to Calzaghe.

I can honestly see him using every trick in the book to try and win this and I bet he's watched the Bika fight to see hoe Joe can sometimes be dragged into someone elses fight and try and rough him up.

I think Calzaghe will be ready for this though and will win by late stoppage or UD.

[TFFP]

He didn't get dominated. Have you even seen the fight? I might watch it again now actually.

You don't know Kessler will go on to do anything, Johnson has.

The point is Echols wasn't a 168 fighter & neither was Brewer but Joe sure made a meal out of beating him.

I still believe he won the second Taylor fight as do most others.

De La Hoya & Trinidad are two truly great fighters & cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Lacy & Kessler. A hype job & a maybe man.
So Echols is not a 168 fighter but De La Hoya and Trinidad are both middles? Neither did anything near their best work at MW. You can pretend its not a factor, but against a huge MW I'm afraid it is. Still, good wins, better than Kessler/Eubank certainly not

Yes, he got whooped by Jones. At no point did he ever look like winning that fight, which means he got whooped in my book

The fact it was even close against Taylor tells a story. What it should tell you is that Hopkins stands no chance in this fight. He struggled with Taylor's speed and movement. How is he going to fair against an A calibre fighter's movement? Do you think Taylor would be competetive against Calzaghe? Think about that carefully, otherwise I could seriously start doubting your analytical knowledge of matchups

The rest of their resumes are much of a muchness. Good wins over B levels. Brewer/Reid/Mitchell and co vs Johnson/Echolls/Winky (at LHW anyway)

There is more riding on this fight than people think, depending on how competetive it is

[dan-b]

I dunno mate maybe he could have unified sooner but you know ****** is a snake and all the politics that go on no one really knows.

I think this will be a very scrappy fight though, Hopkins is a great but is too old to take the fight to Calzaghe.

I can honestly see him using every trick in the book to try and win this and I bet he's watched the Bika fight to see hoe Joe can sometimes be dragged into someone elses fight and try and rough him up.

I think Calzaghe will be ready for this though and will win by late stoppage or UD.

It's too easy to blame ******. Joe could have walked away & been his own man like Hopkins but didn't. I will have eternally more respect for Hopkins because he done things his way.

[dan-b]

So Echols is not a 168 fighter but De La Hoya and Trinidad are both middles? Neither did anything near their best work at MW. You can pretend its not a factor, but against a huge MW I'm afraid it is. Still, good wins, better than Kessler/Eubank certainly not

Yes, he got whooped by Jones. At no point did he ever look like winning that fight, which means he got whooped in my book

The fact it was even close against Taylor tells a story. What it should tell you is that Hopkins stands no chance in this fight. He struggled with Taylor's speed and movement. How is he going to fair against an A calibre fighter's movement? Do you think Taylor would be competetive against Calzaghe? Think about that carefully, otherwise I could seriously start doubting your analytical knowledge of matchups

The rest of their resumes are much of a muchness. Good wins over B levels. Brewer/Reid/Mitchell and co vs Johnson/Echolls/Winky (at LHW anyway)

There is more riding on this fight than people think, depending on how competetive it is

Eubank was finished & I still don't see all the fuss with Kessler. Neither of have them have achieved anything like what DLH & Tito have who are shoe in HOF's.

My idea of a whooping is getting a severe beating, losing every round & possibly being KO'd. Jones maintains Hopkins gave him one of his sternest tests despite his lack of experience.

The Taylor fights were uncomfortably close but I do think Hopkins was starting to feel the strain at the weight at this point. His simple transfer to 175 is an illustration of this. A Taylor Calzaghe fight at 168 would probably end in the 10th round with Joe consistently tagging taylor with chopping (slaps?) punches. Taylor neither having the movement or defensive capability to avoid them.

Whats riding on this? I personally hope Hopkins retires after this fight win or lose. As for Joe I expect he'll fancy the Jones fight now years after he's past his best.

[TFFP]

Eubank was finished & I still don't see all the fuss with Kessler. Neither of have them have achieved anything like what DLH & Tito have who are shoe in HOF's.

My idea of a whooping is getting a severe beating, losing every round & possibly being KO'd. Jones maintains Hopkins gave him one of his sternest tests despite his lack of experience.

The Taylor fights were uncomfortably close but I do think Hopkins was starting to feel the strain at the weight at this point. His simple transfer to 175 is an illustration of this. A Taylor Calzaghe fight at 168 would probably end in the 10th round with Joe consistently tagging taylor with chopping (slaps?) punches. Taylor neither having the movement or defensive capability to avoid them.

Whats riding on this? I personally hope Hopkins retires after this fight win or lose. As for Joe I expect he'll fancy the Jones fight now years after he's past his best.
Like I said, it depends how the fight goes. If Joe destroys him as I anticipate, it proves Joe is a stylistic nightmare for old Bernard. It would give an indication of how a prime matchup would go. Obviously I have to take into account Hopkins age which is why I'm not satisified with a close win, but then Joe isn't a spring chicken either

Joe has said he isn't interested in Jones, but Pavlik. If he takes that fight I will be very disapointed

There is a lot riding on this, because if Joe doe the job I expect, and then beats Pavlik retiring undefeated there is definitely a claim for him being highly ranked as an ATG and not just at SMW. If heaven forbid Hopkins wins...well...that would be huge for him. He'd be a lock for top 30 ATG. Some people have him there already, but not me

[dan-b]

Like I said, it depends how the fight goes. If Joe destroys him as I anticipate, it proves Joe is a stylistic nightmare for old Bernard. It would give an indication of how a prime matchup would go. Obviously I have to take into account Hopkins age which is why I'm not satisified with a close win, but then Joe isn't a spring chicken either

Joe has said he isn't interested in Jones, but Pavlik. If he takes that fight I will be very disapointed

There is a lot riding on this, because if Joe doe the job I expect, and then beats Pavlik retiring undefeated there is definitely a claim for him being highly ranked as an ATG and not just at SMW. If heaven forbid Hopkins wins...well...that would be huge for him. He'd be a lock for top 30 ATG. Some people have him there already, but not me

We did it! A conclusion of sorts. I don't have Hopkins top 30 ATG either so no issue there. I think if you're hoping for an utter whipping you will be dissapointed you should just be happy with the win as I'm sure Joe will be should he do it.

[Diablo]

Eubank was finished & I still don't see all the fuss with Kessler. Neither of have them have achieved anything like what DLH & Tito have who are shoe in HOF's.

My idea of a whooping is getting a severe beating, losing every round & possibly being KO'd. Jones maintains Hopkins gave him one of his sternest tests despite his lack of experience.

The Taylor fights were uncomfortably close but I do think Hopkins was starting to feel the strain at the weight at this point. His simple transfer to 175 is an illustration of this. A Taylor Calzaghe fight at 168 would probably end in the 10th round with Joe consistently tagging taylor with chopping (slaps?) punches. Taylor neither having the movement or defensive capability to avoid them.

Whats riding on this? I personally hope Hopkins retires after this fight win or lose. As for Joe I expect he'll fancy the Jones fight now years after he's past his best.

I dont expect Joe will bother with Jones. I think it speaks volumes both Hopkins and Calzaghe have dismissed him...they both see him as a joke and nothing to be gained in terms of legacy

[hitman_hatton1]

i favour hops on this one.

i've always thought he's got the style to beat joe.

good on the counter, fast hands, awkward, good spoiler, tough as old boots, decent puncher.

people are saying he throws 10 punches a rd and all that bollocks. but he can go with a pace as he's proved so often in his career.

hops on a decision.

hope i'm wrong.

[dan-b]

I dont expect Joe will bother with Jones. I think it speaks volumes both Hopkins and Calzaghe have dismissed him...they both see him as a joke and nothing to be gained in terms of legacy

I think to call him a joke is taking a touch far but he's certainly a diminished fighter who I wouldn't be interested in seeing either Joe or Bernard take on now.

[Farmboxer]

Calzaghe is an excellent fighter, but look for the US Boxing media to cut him down, not to mention the criminal judges and referee.

[elle]

Calzaghe is an excellent fighter, but look for the US Boxing media to cut him down, not to mention the criminal judges and referee.


The referee will be Joe Cortez according to FWTV.

[elle]

Cortez isn't a bad choice for Joe here. The only one who'd be better would be Nady.

Both like clean fighting and restrict holding.


Calzaghe seems happy with the choice of referee from what I've read.

[dan-b]

He's reffed a Hopkins fight before as well without incident.