Actually watching Douglas-Tyson for the first time in a long time..

[EARL]

.. and I forgot how phenominal Douglas looked. He was actually beating Tyson more decisively than I remember. Another thing that I forgot is how much better Tyson looked in this fight than people give him credit for. Tyson's showing plenty of head movement, only difference is Douglas is timing him perfectly every time Tyson tries to bob and weave inside his range.

[djrock247]

Buster Douglas ON THIS NIGHT (and I emphasize on this night only!) would have given Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Jack Johnson & Rocky Marciano one hell of a fight. He was simply incredible. He came into that fight in a physical condition that he'd never before been nor had he returned to after. His jab was crisp & effective. Defensively sound, putting punches together, UNBELIEVABLE. Amazing what a little motivation can do to the right individual.

[brooklyn1550]

Buster Douglas performed at the level of the great heavyweights on this night. Once in a lifetime performance!

[EARL]

Another thing that seems overblown is the " slow count " for Douglas. I don't see what the big deal is.. if Don King didn't make such a stink about it I don't think anyone would even be mentioning it today.


The only thing that I'll concede to about this fight is that Tyson seemed like he might've taken Douglas a little too lightly, and then when he finally realized what he was in the ring with it was too late.

[EARL]

Buster Douglas ON THIS NIGHT (and I emphasize on this night only!) would have given Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Jack Johnson & Rocky Marciano one hell of a fight. He was simply incredible. He came into that fight in a physical condition that he'd never before been nor had he returned to after. His jab was crisp & effective. Defensively sound, putting punches together, UNBELIEVABLE. Amazing what a little motivation can do to the right individual.
I agree, except I think even the Douglas that was stopped in the first round by Savarese would annihilate Johnson, Louis, and Marciano.

[Bodysnatcher]

Another thing that seems overblown is the " slow count " for Douglas. I don't see what the big deal is.. if Don King didn't make such a stink about it I don't think anyone would even be mentioning it today.

Especially since Douglas was pounding the canvas in frustration at the count of THREE.

Hardly the act of a guy who couldn't have got up had the count been quicker.

However, I HATE to admit this, but if Tyson had been in shape I think it might have been a different outcome.

But ifs, maybes, wouldas, couldas...they are irrelevant.

Douglas was so good that night he probably would have won regardless.

[EARL]

Especially since Douglas was pounding the canvas in frustration at the count of THREE.

Hardly the act of a guy who couldn't have got up had the count been quicker.

However, I HATE to admit this, but if Tyson had been in shape I think it might have been a different outcome.

But ifs, maybes, wouldas, couldas...they are irrelevant.

Douglas was so good that night he probably would have won regardless.

Tyson definitely looked in shape.. but like I said it just looks more to me like he underestimated Douglas a bit.

[boxingabc123]

.. and I forgot how phenominal Douglas looked. He was actually beating Tyson more decisively than I remember. Another thing that I forgot is how much better Tyson looked in this fight than people give him credit for. Tyson's showing plenty of head movement, only difference is Douglas is timing him perfectly every time Tyson tries to bob and weave inside his range.

Douglas was phenomonal that night, and I don't buy into the slow count crap. But Mikes head movement was a far cry from what it was with Rooney. And Mike also wasn't jabbing his way in, and wasn't throwing combinations either. His head movements were slow, predictable, and easy time, and Buster took advantage of this and hit him beautifully.

[EARL]

Douglas was phenomonal that night, and I don't buy into the slow count crap. But Mikes head movement was a far cry from what it was with Rooney. And Mike also wasn't jabbing his way in, and wasn't throwing combinations either. His head movements were slow, predictable, and easy time, and Buster took advantage of this and hit him beautifully.

He wasn't jabbing his way in because Douglas was timing him with HIS jab and with combos as well. And I don't know.. Tyson's head movement looked as quick as it'd ever been, although as Douglas was tagging him with more and more blows he was slowing down a bit, I'll admit that much.

[boxingabc123]

He wasn't jabbing his way in because Douglas was timing him with HIS jab and with combos as well. And I don't know.. Tyson's head movement looked as quick as it'd ever been, although as Douglas was tagging him with more and more blows he was slowing down a bit, I'll admit that much.

No way. Mike was just trying to walk his way inside. A lot of times he wasn't bobbing and weaving, he was just leanin to the side to get out of the way of his jab which he wasnt slipping and Douglas would see this and drop a right hand on him. And Mike didn't work the body at all either.

[tays001]

I agree, except I think even the Douglas that was stopped in the first round by Savarese would annihilate Johnson, Louis, and Marciano.:scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :nut :nut :nut :verysad

[EARL]

No way. Mike was just trying to walk his way inside.


What do you mean? From the start of the very first round Mike was trying to bob and weave inside.


A lot of times he wasn't bobbing and weaving, he was just leanin to the side to get out of the way of his jab which he wasnt slipping and Douglas would see this and drop a right hand on him. And Mike didn't work the body at all either.

His bobbing and weaving slowed down a bit as the fight went on, but that was because Douglas kept catching him with hard shots. It just didn't look like Tyson had much of an answer for what Douglas was putting in front of him in this fight. No matter how much bobbing and weaving he did Douglas was always right there timing him with jabs which then set up the combinations.

[EARL]

:scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :scaredas: :nut :nut :nut :verysad


Especially Johnson. :hey

[larryx]

man i CAN NOT watch dat fight it hurts my soul

[boxingabc123]

What do you mean? From the start of the very first round Mike was trying to bob and weave inside.

Yea but his bobbing and weaving was nothing like it was in his days with Rooney. It was so easy to time and I give Buster all the credit in the world for having the courage to stand in there and risk trading.


His bobbing and weaving slowed down a bit as the fight went on, but that was because Douglas kept catching him with hard shots. It just didn't look like Tyson had much of an answer for what Douglas was putting in front of him in this fight. No matter how much bobbing and weaving he did Douglas was always right there timing him with jabs which then set up the combinations.

Your right about it slowing down threw out the fight. By the 5th round he was like a sitting target, and Busters timing was perfect. I love watching this fight because Mike gets nailed over and over. Mike shows heart though because he keeps comming.

[Bentchassis]

Douglas was phenomonal that night, and I don't buy into the slow count crap. But Mikes head movement was a far cry from what it was with Rooney. And Mike also wasn't jabbing his way in, and wasn't throwing combinations either. His head movements were slow, predictable, and easy time, and Buster took advantage of this and hit him beautifully.

Totally agree, Buster took alot away from Tyson that night, he braught the fight outside alot and was SO quick and accurate to counter and keep Mike at bay, but Tyson def looked lethargic to me, he showed glimpses when it suited, but a combination of things happened, Buster faught like a an ATG and Tyson was off.

[cpnasty]

He was amazing that night

[vargasfan1985]

.. and I forgot how phenominal Douglas looked. He was actually beating Tyson more decisively than I remember. Another thing that I forgot is how much better Tyson looked in this fight than people give him credit for. Tyson's showing plenty of head movement, only difference is Douglas is timing him perfectly every time Tyson tries to bob and weave inside his range.

imo that douglas, that night, could have quite possiblly beaten almost any HW.

[Sweet Pea]

I agree, except I think even the Douglas that was stopped in the first round by Savarese would annihilate Johnson, Louis, and Marciano.That's ridiculous, and so were parts of your first post to be quite honest, given how poor Tyson did actually look regarding his head movement and overall technique at this stage.

That Douglas would still beat Johnson though, but not the other two.

[knockout]

First time i watched it,it shock the heel out of me i was like how the hell did tyson lose.

[EARL]

That's ridiculous, and so were parts of your first post to be quite honest, given how poor Tyson did actually look regarding his head movement and overall technique at this stage.

His head movement looked fine to me, but as I've said.. the punishment he was taking from Douglas looked to slow him down in certain spots. As for his technique I think Douglas was throwing him off of that more than anything.

I'm not gonna go into the whole " if you weren't scared of Tyson you could beat him " BS because I know it's exactly that.. BS.. but nobody before Douglas ever fought Tyson with the determination and fearlessness that he did that night and it threw him off his game.. who else did Tyson fight that was calm and collected enough to actually time his pursuits and pepper him with stiff jabs and hard combinations and with minimal clinching?


Douglas would still beat Johnson though, but not the other two.

Okay I'll be fair..

Douglas KO1 Johnson

Douglas KO5 Marciano/Louis. :yep

[billyconn]

Could prime Bowe have "Bustered" Tyson? Since he was just a bigger and better version of Douglas....

[divac]

Earl, you've done an exellent job of breaking this fight down.

As you've said, Tyson was showing everything you said, headmovement, and the such.

I hear all kinds of excuses on Tyson's behalf that he was out of shape, that he did'nt do this or that.....
.....all exactly the same kind of excuses that arose again when Evander Holyfield stopped Tyson twice.

I've rewatched all these fights over the years, and yes, Tyson's headmovement was there and especially in the early rounds.
......but what is a fighter to do, when he exhibits the same movements that he's done all through his career that resulted in sucess, and then now he's getting timed and tagged repeatedly with or without the headmovement?

Yes, the further along the fight evolved with Douglas, the less headmovement exhibited by Tyson, but thats because one, Tyson is probably figuring, why am I wasting my energy with headmovement when I'm getting clocked regardless???
.....and two, that was a shellaking that Tyson was taking from Douglas, of course he's not going to be as energetic of precise with his headmovment, or any movement for that matter.


If Tyson had an off night due to taking Douglas lightly, it really does'nt matter imo how lightly or how seriously Tyson would taken Douglas.
Douglas showed complete domination in every area over Tyson that there is no reason to believe that any version of Tyson that may have showed up would have made much of a difference.

Douglas over Tyson was as a complete a beatdown and domination of a fighter as highly regarded as Tyson was in those days that I've ever seen.

Nothing that Tyson could have changed would have mattered, that fight was a complete mismatch!
Douglas was supreme that night!

[Azania]

Gotta agree with a lot here.Buster brought that perfomance from down under and made it stick.Thing I always notice everytime I watch this fight...from the get-go Buster lays some hard shots on Mike...his outside game was sweet...countering quick and beautifully everytime Mike tried to lunge in..made him miss a lot.

IMO....two scenarios....1.Mike was not as quick as his usual self with his attacks....not crisp enough...add the fact that Buster was very quick with his hands and feet from the outside...2.Might sound strange,but even if Mike was on his A-game,he probably would have been laid oout quicker if he did'nt get to Buster first...

Either way...a perfomance for the ages by Buster that night.

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

What is amazing to me is that Douglas lost his Mother shortly before this fight, and STILL won by KO:good i LOVED THIS FIGHT!! I was hoping Douglas would KO HIM i never liked Tyson:-(
Douglas had a short reign he was KTFO just 7 months later by a 208 lb Holyfield,

[Vantage_West]

Another thing that seems overblown is the " slow count " for Douglas. I don't see what the big deal is.. if Don King didn't make such a stink about it I don't think anyone would even be mentioning it today.


The only thing that I'll concede to about this fight is that Tyson seemed like he might've taken Douglas a little too lightly, and then when he finally realized what he was in the ring with it was too late.well king was tryign to change it to a diqualification or a n/c for tyson.
due to the slow count and that it was in japan a place not known for a powerful boxing law backbone to stand up and say no to don king.

but a few union of boxing commision officials were on hand it seems.


anyways peopel seem to think it was the jab that got tyson in this fight. it was more his workrate and combo's very similar to what evander did to tyson. a good inside game with a jab - cross when the goign got tough.

[Punisher33]

Tyson was to busy having orgies with japanese bitches to worry about Buster, as Tyson put it. Tyson wasnt a 100% that night, not physically, and certainly not mentally. His trainer was gone, his life was a mess, and wasnt prepared for a guy like Buster that night. If it was 85-88, Tyson would of layed Buster out in less than 6, but for one night Buster shocked the world with heart, toughness, and determination, and was able to stand up to the bully and win the hearts of millions of people, by knocking out the baddest man the planet that night.

[Sakura]

imo that douglas, that night, could have quite possiblly beaten almost any HW.

:yikes :yikes

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

:happy

[Thread Stealer]

Could prime Bowe have "Bustered" Tyson? Since he was just a bigger and better version of Douglas....

Bowe didn't fight like Douglas.

Douglas outboxed Tyson from the outside, using his jab, right hand leads, and mixing in uppercuts. He clinched a lot on the inside. Bowe didn't clinch, his instinct was to brawl. He didn't use his height and reach like he should have, because he preferred to get inside and punish guys with short uppercuts on the inside and mixing in those body shots.

It's easy to see Bowe beating Tyson, given his terrific uppercut and infighting ability (and Tyson's suspectibilty to uppercuts), but it's also easy to see Bowe getting taken out. Bowe's defense was shit. He took a good shot, but against the biggest punchers he faced (Hide, Golota), he was hurt numerous times.

[EARL]

Bowe didn't fight like Douglas.

Douglas outboxed Tyson from the outside, using his jab, right hand leads, and mixing in uppercuts. He clinched a lot on the inside. Bowe didn't clinch, his instinct was to brawl. He didn't use his height and reach like he should have, because he preferred to get inside and punish guys with short uppercuts on the inside and mixing in those body shots.

Douglas didn't really even clinch him that much and there were some occasions when it actually looked like Tyson initiated the clinches.


It's easy to see Bowe beating Tyson, given his terrific uppercut and infighting ability (and Tyson's suspectibilty to uppercuts), but it's also easy to see Bowe getting taken out. Bowe's defense was shit. He took a good shot, but against the biggest punchers he faced (Hide, Golota), he was hurt numerous times.
Outside of Ike Ibeabuchi, which would be a 50/50 fight for me, (I might even put my money on Ibeabuchi) I think Bowe would stand the next best chance against Tyson.

[tays001]

Especially Johnson. :hey:yep

[tays001]

Could prime Bowe have "Bustered" Tyson? Since he was just a bigger and better version of Douglas....

no cuz BOWE would of traded with tyson. and that would be his down fall

[Lance_Uppercut]

I caught that again this weekend too. Douglas looked incredible in physique and skill. He beat Tyson good. Definitely one of the best wins ever by a single boxer.