View Full Version : Haye vs Klitschko P4P
Ok the big debate on these two guys is if Haye will simply be walked through by Wlad's size, strength and reach. Obviously Wlad has those advantages.
But P4P, who would you pick? I feel Wlad is probably the better P4P fighter, but not by a lot.
If Wlad was a cruiserweight, he wouldn't be too dissimilar to Enzo.
Haye's a lot better P4P I think.
warrior85
03-22-2008, 09:20 AM
If Wlad was a cruiserweight, he wouldn't be too dissimilar to Enzo.
Haye's a lot better P4P I think.
:good good call.
196osh
03-22-2008, 09:21 AM
Haye and by a distance in terms of ability, the Enzo call is not a bad one.
Relentless
03-22-2008, 09:24 AM
Haye, waldo is talented too, he was also alot more exciting before he joined manny steward.
Krisv1
03-22-2008, 09:26 AM
I have alot of respect for Wlad for the for he does for charity etc, but this guy is seriously bad for the fight games main division.
I hope Haye butchers him
196osh
03-22-2008, 09:30 AM
Haye, waldo is talented too, he was also alot more exciting before he joined manny steward.
If you take him down to 200lbs and 6'3" Haye would starch him. Hell the only reason he beats Haye now is his massive size advantage.
I think you guys are underrating Wlad quite a bit here. Sure, he can fight like a gutless coward, but when he wants to he can turn on his (excellent) assault machine. Plus he is highly skilled, its not like Haye is in another league in terms of skills. Or anything for that matter.
WiDDoW_MaKeR
03-22-2008, 10:36 AM
There is no way to rate something like this.
196osh
03-22-2008, 10:38 AM
I think you guys are underrating Wlad quite a bit here. Sure, he can fight like a gutless coward, but when he wants to he can turn on his (excellent) assault machine. Plus he is highly skilled, its not like Haye is in another league in terms of skills. Or anything for that matter.
Wlads skills are very good but so are Zab Judah's. Just because you have the skills does not mean that you can always implement them if you are not mentally 100%.
Haye can use his skills to their true potential because he is mentally foucused therefore:
p4p: Haye > Wlad
Goose
03-22-2008, 10:39 AM
Just watched this guy Haye...he doesnt fight tall at all like he supposed to, somebody like Peter will knock him out into next week....
There shouldnt be any P4P talk with this guy
Relentless
03-22-2008, 11:29 AM
If you take him down to 200lbs and 6'3" Haye would starch him. Hell the only reason he beats Haye now is his massive size advantage.
waldo is pretty fast too.
mike464
03-22-2008, 11:42 AM
P4P Haye is much, much better. That's not in doubt.
dwilson
03-22-2008, 11:42 AM
Wlad is the best heavy weight currently active, in all departments. Wlad is also an excellent boxer but due to his physical advantages and dodgy chin he knows he can play it safe.
Haye on the other hand may turn out to be a step above in certain area's but I do not think he can play it safe at heavy. That is why if these two ever meet I would have to pick Wlad to win and prob by stoppage. I would love Haye to beat him but he has a lot to prove before claims of him being the superior guy at the weight come true.
P4P Klitschko wins hands down.
Remeber Klitschko won a gold medal at the olympics! Haye although a good amateur didnt fulfill his potential.
I think the minute Haye gets tagged by Klitschko (if they ever fight) he will now he is being hit by a BIG powerful man, pretty much a role reversal of Haye at Cruiserweight. Plus if they ever fight i would like to know what would be going through Hayes mind at the weigh in staredown?
Asterion
03-22-2008, 11:48 AM
P4P, I think Haye beats him.
But Wlad has accomplished more.
Relentless
03-22-2008, 11:50 AM
P4P, I think Haye beats him.
But Wlad has accomplished more.
and what are his accomplishments?
haye in 20 fights has accomplished more than waldo in his 45, haye unified, wado owns 2 belts.
Asterion
03-22-2008, 11:52 AM
and what are his accomplishments?
haye in 20 fights has accomplished more than waldo in his 45, haye unified, wado owns 2 belts.
Wlad has beaten much more Top10 contenders and had more title defenses. He has also unified. Haye is younger, however.
Relentless
03-22-2008, 11:55 AM
Wlad has beaten much more Top10 contenders and had more title defenses. He has also unified. Haye is younger, however.
how many top 10 guys has waldo beaten? 5, 6 ? what about the 39 other opponents on his record? who are they?
Asterion
03-22-2008, 11:58 AM
how many top 10 guys has waldo beaten? 5, 6 ? what about the 39 other opponents on his record? who are they?
10-12 :think
Byrd (twice)
Brock
Brewster
Ibragimov
McCline
Schulz
Barrett
Botha
Peter
TOS
Haye (in less fights) has beaten Mormeck, Mac, Gurov and Fraggomeni (not sure if he was ranked so high).
11player
03-22-2008, 12:07 PM
P4P Wlad is still better, based more on the fact that he is a proven fighter, while there are still a few doubts about Haye, specially as a HW.
Haye has been basically a heavyweight fighting Cruiserweights.
Granted although he was struggling with the weight, he was doing it correctly and you heard him say that he can make the weight easily(before the Maccarannelli fight). So realistically he has had an advantage over most his opponents.
Lets see what he is like on a level playing field?
WiDDoW_MaKeR
03-22-2008, 12:27 PM
how many top 10 guys has waldo beaten? 5, 6 ? what about the 39 other opponents on his record? who are they?
Chris Byrd I
Chris Byrd II
Sam Peter
Ray Austin
Calvin Brock
Sultan Ibragimov
Jameel McCline
TOS
Lamon Brewster
All of these guys were in the top 10 when Wlad beat them.
He also beat these guys were either top 11 through 20 at the time he beat them... Charles Shufford, Monte Barrett (who later went into the top 10), Eliseo Castillo (undefeated coming off very impressive win over Michael Moorer), Derrick Jefferson, David Bostice, Ray Mercer, Axel Schulz, Frans Botha, ect... there may be more but I think I proved my point. Wlad has been consistently dismantling Top contenders for a long time now.
Mindspring
03-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Haye, waldo is talented too, he was also alot more exciting before he joined manny steward.
I was thinking the same thing. It seems like Manny's put a "governor"on Wlad's punch output, maybe because he's afraid of his stamina?
PH|LLA
03-22-2008, 12:42 PM
you should poll it.
Goose
03-22-2008, 01:52 PM
Chris Byrd I
Chris Byrd II
Sam Peter
Ray Austin
Calvin Brock
Sultan Ibragimov
Jameel McCline
TOS
Lamon Brewster
All of these guys were in the top 10 when Wlad beat them.
He also beat these guys were either top 11 through 20 at the time he beat them... Charles Shufford, Monte Barrett (who later went into the top 10), Eliseo Castillo (undefeated coming off very impressive win over Michael Moorer), Derrick Jefferson, David Bostice, Ray Mercer, Axel Schulz, Frans Botha, ect... there may be more but I think I proved my point. Wlad has been consistently dismantling Top contenders for a long time now.
:rofl
Chris Byrd T1000 liquid metal prototype
Rock0052
03-22-2008, 02:47 PM
:rofl
Chris Byrd T1000 liquid metal prototype
:lol:
BigReg
03-22-2008, 02:55 PM
If Haye is much better than Wlad p4p, then he should have problem beating him. I mean Haye does claim to be a natural HW, and says he struggles to make CW.
Cobbler
03-22-2008, 03:15 PM
if Haye got tko'd by carl thompson,wlad KO'S him.my humble opinion.
Just as valid and ultimately pointless as saying 'if Klitschko got tko'd by Ross Purrity then Haye KO's him' really.
Asterion
03-22-2008, 04:07 PM
if Haye got tko'd by carl thompson,wlad KO'S him.my humble opinion.
Haye was green in that fight. Just like Wlad was green against Purrity.
BigReg
03-22-2008, 04:16 PM
Haye was green in that fight. Just like Wlad was green against Purrity.
Purrity was a gatekeeper. Many managers put there up and coming prospects in against him, and most beat him. Look at Purrity's opposition before Wlad. No way Wlad should have lost that fight.
Thompson wasn't quite a gatekeeper when he fought Haye. However, there's no excuse for getting gassed out in the 5th round.
Geoffers
03-22-2008, 04:16 PM
Let's wait until Mr Haye emerges from his weight-building session and see how he looks in his next heavy fight. After that, P4P won't be relevant.
Cobbler
03-22-2008, 04:22 PM
Purrity was a gatekeeper. Many managers put there up and coming prospects in against him, and most beat him. Look at Purrity's opposition before Wlad. No way Wlad should have lost that fight.
Thompson wasn't quite a gatekeeper when he fought Haye. However, there's no excuse for getting gassed out in the 5th round.
But Thompson had beaten Sebastian Rothmann in his previous fight. And whenever we were discussing who Steve Cunningham had fought, people kept bringing up Rothmann as one of the first five names mentioned.....:?
Symphenyceo
03-22-2008, 04:25 PM
haye
BigReg
03-22-2008, 04:29 PM
But Thompson had beaten Sebastian Rothmann in his previous fight. And whenever we were discussing who Steve Cunningham had fought, people kept bringing up Rothmann as one of the first five names mentioned.....:?
Did you even read what I wrote? I said Thompson wasn't a gatekeeper. This isn't a Steve Cunningham thread. We all know Haye has no interest in fighting him, and would rather get his head knocked into the 5th row by Wlad or some other big puching HW.
Cobbler
03-22-2008, 04:42 PM
Did you even read what I wrote?
Oh yeah, apparantly not, actually. Or I read it the wrong way.
wayne3280
03-22-2008, 05:08 PM
P4P Haye is much, much better. That's not in doubt.
I doubt it. 'Much, much better' is just wrong. You haven't even seen either man against someone on their level in their respective divisions.
Both men have been impressive in their last fights. Where most saw a 'coward' in Wlad v Ibragimov, I saw someone beat a world champion with absolute ease. Why make a fight 'exciting' if you can simply sit back and walk to an easy victory?
Relentless
03-22-2008, 05:11 PM
Did you even read what I wrote? I said Thompson wasn't a gatekeeper. This isn't a Steve Cunningham thread. We all know Haye has no interest in fighting him, and would rather get his head knocked into the 5th row by Wlad or some other big puching HW.
yeah right!!:rofl:rofl
Sakura
03-22-2008, 05:19 PM
Haye's biggest fight is amateur fight with Solis..altought, that was good, there is no chance compare him with wlad.
Fighting Weight
03-22-2008, 05:24 PM
and what are his accomplishments?
haye in 20 fights has accomplished more than waldo in his 45, haye unified, wado owns 2 belts.
Exactly. P4P I'd say there's not much in it but Haye has definately accomplished more.
[quote=KCD]Remeber Klitschko won a gold medal at the olympics! Haye although a good amateur didnt fulfill his potential.
quote]
Not sure if that is at all relevant. Regarding Amateur pedigree however, those who know their stuff will tell you that the World Championship's are a harder competition to win than the Olympics.
And Haye got a silver medal in those, and lost to Solis, which there is little shame in, dont know who Wlad beat in the Olympic final but I would guess it was not a guy half as good as Odlanier.
If Haye is much better than Wlad p4p, then he should have problem beating him. I mean Haye does claim to be a natural HW, and says he struggles to make CW.
Well, If we are putting it that way, Pac should have no trouble beating Judah at 147? It roughly the comparative size and height advantages Haye would be giving away to Wlad.
Relentless
03-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Haye's biggest fight is amateur fight with Solis..altought, that was good, there is no chance compare him with wlad.
what?
Sakura
03-22-2008, 08:12 PM
what?
??Haye's best accomplishment...
Relentless
03-22-2008, 08:14 PM
??Haye's best accomplishment...
haye's best accomplishment is unifying the cruiserweight division.
Sakura
03-22-2008, 08:19 PM
haye's best accomplishment is unifying the cruiserweight division.
Hm, unifying cruiserweight division is littlebit different, than do that in heavyweight's..my take is wlad..
BigReg
03-22-2008, 08:32 PM
Well, If we are putting it that way, Pac should have no trouble beating Judah at 147? It roughly the comparative size and height advantages Haye would be giving away to Wlad.
Wrong. Pac has never made any claims to being a natural WW. Haye claims he is a natural HW. If he's a natural HW, and if he's suprerior to Wlad on p4p basis, then he should be able to beat him. Pac also never said the Judah was disgrace to boxing and he never said that he would clean out the WW division.
There's a reason that HW is 201 and up. Once you're dealing with guys who are that heavy, the weight difference isn't really much of a factor. No one is draining themselves. So if Haye is superior to Wlad on a p4p basis, and if he's a natural 225 lb. HW as he and his fans claim, then I see no reason why he wouldn't beat Wlad.
Sakura
03-22-2008, 08:36 PM
Wrong. Pac has never made any claims to being a natural WW. Haye claims he is a natural HW. If he's a natural HW, and if he's suprerior to Wlad on p4p basis, then he should be able to beat him. Pac also never said the Judah was disgrace to boxing and he never said that he would clean out the WW division.
There's a reason that HW is 201 and up. Once you're dealing with guys who are that heavy, the weight difference isn't really much of a factor. No one is draining themselves. So if Haye is superior to Wlad on a p4p basis, and if he's a natural 225 lb. HW as he and his fans claim, then I see no reason why he wouldn't beat Wlad.
:thumbsup :thumbsup
box3r86
06-20-2008, 11:10 AM
only just wlad but he's had the opportunity to fight some top fighters. haye will overtake him soon imo
KilltheKing
06-20-2008, 11:12 AM
Not even close ... Haye destroys Klit P4P
charlievint
06-20-2008, 11:42 AM
Ok the big debate on these two guys is if Haye will simply be walked through by Wlad's size, strength and reach. Obviously Wlad has those advantages.
But P4P, who would you pick? I feel Wlad is probably the better P4P fighter, but not by a lot.
P4P....Neither... Both are soild HW's but neither are GREAT technical boxers with superb skills. Afterall the HW division isn't over flowing with highly skilled fighters. They are decent and some are very solid, but neither make the P4P list unless its only made up of HW's
vBulletin® v3.8.0, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.