My American friends: If Mr. Joe Calzaghe shut-out Mikkel Kessler...

[China_hand_Joe]

In impressive fashion could you finally admit he is the best (not greatest - but the best) fighter of the last decade or is at least P4P number one right now. It is an if, but would anyone deny him his status if he did -question-mark-

[codeman99998]

Yes.

[1-Ton]

Joe should already be near the top of everybody's P4P list, if you ask me. I probably wouldn't have him at the top, but I wouldn't raise an argument with you if you did.

[Tony Harrison]

Sorry for posting in a post intended for American use but has your disdain for emoticons now spread to basic punctuation - question mark.

[Decebal]

Sorry for posting in a post intended for American use but has your disdain for emoticons now spread to basic punctuation - question mark.

Sack that secretary, China Joe!

[China_hand_Joe]

Sorry for posting in a post intended for American use but has your disdain for emoticons now spread to basic punctuation - question mark.My keyboard is dying.

[China_hand_Joe]

People, bare in mind shutting out a wonderful boxer like Mikkel Kessler is almost impossible.

[Decebal]

"If Joe would achieve the almost impossible in the ring, would he be the best?"

:think

[China_hand_Joe]

"If Joe would achieve the almost impossible in the ring, would he be the best?"

:thinkIt is a trick question, I admit.

[boxfan99]

In impressive fashion could you finally admit he is the best (not greatest - but the best) fighter of the last decade or is at least P4P number one right now. It is an if, but would anyone deny him his status if he did -question-mark-

How do you define a shut-out? Do you mean 120-108 X 3 or what?

If Joe should do that, I'll have him at no.2 P4P.

[vonBanditos]

I'd really have to see the performance to make that call. I'd definitely have him up there at the top, but it seems to be a lot easier to maintain a #1 position than it is to achieve it. How would you defend his position against Floyd Mayweather?

[Decebal]

It is a trick question, I admit.

I like your thinking: I will get these guys to believe that Kessler is nigh unbeatable and then I will propose that Joe beats him in impressive comprehensive fashion. Then I will ask them whether he is the best!

One of the best ways of getting the true haters to come out of the woodwork - they will answer NO! no matter what...even to your hypothetical argument.

[shelterr]

If he shut out Kessler i would have him P4P #4 easy. Unless Winky loses and then i would have him at #3. Keep in mind that i really like Calzaghe and Kessler both, im fuckin stoked for this fight, but PBF and PacMan have been unbeatable as of late and if Winky beats a P4P top ten rated Hopkins then he can't be bumped for Calzaghe beating a non-top ten P4P fighter.

[China_hand_Joe]

How do you define a shut-out? Do you mean 120-108 X 3 or what?

If Joe should do that, I'll have him at no.2 P4P.Without losing a round basically, in the eyes of a competent judge.

[China_hand_Joe]

I like your thinking: I will get these guys to believe that Kessler is nigh unbeatable and then I will propose that Joe beats him in impressive comprehensive fashion. Then I will ask them whether he is the best!

One of the best ways of getting the true haters to come out of the woodwork - they will answer NO! no matter what...even to your hypothetical argument.Kessler may or may not be nigh unbeatable. Whether he is or not, I cannot think of one instance of someone like a Kessler being shut-out, certainly not a fighter like Kessler at his best weight, in his prime.

[Decebal]

Kessler may or may not be nigh unbeatable. Whether he is or not, I cannot think of one instance of someone like a Kessler being shut-out, certainly not a fighter like Kessler at his best weight, in his prime.

Damn right! He won't! Not even by JC! It won't happen, China Joe!

[Decebal]

your manipulating again chj :hey :-(

A self-professed communist, manipulating?:shock:

[jyuza]

Even if he win (which is pretty hard to predict considering the opposition) I just can't see how he can be ranked in the Top 3 P4P.

Beating Lacy, Manfredo, Bika and an eventual Kessler isn't enough to be the best.
Pacquiao, Wright and Floyd are by far the 3 best.

And about the decade's best... well, no need to argument this one, Calzaghe is no where near a De La Hoya, Whitaker, Lewis, Trinidad, Hopkins in a best-of-the-decade contest.

[China_hand_Joe]

Even if he win (which is pretty hard to predict considering the opposition) I just can't see how he can be ranked in the Top 3 P4P.

Beating Lacy, Manfredo, Bika and an eventual Kessler isn't enough to be the best.
Pacquiao, Wright and Floyd are by far the 3 best.

And about the decade's best... well, no need to argument this one, Calzaghe is no where near a De La Hoya, Whitaker, Lewis, Trinidad, Hopkins in a best-of-the-decade contest.We are talking in terms of actual boxing (and fighting) ability in the ring. Winky endless resume is irrelevant if Joe has proven himself to be a godlike fighter.

[Decebal]

Sorry, China Joe, that was out of order. I know you are not really a communist...you like professional boxing!:D

[China_hand_Joe]

Sorry, China Joe, that was out of order. I know you are not really a communist...you like professional boxing!:DI like the standard of athleticism, not the extreme capitalist structuring of it, nor the ignorant and self-defeating attitude of materialistically driven boxers.

[bigG]

joe will handle kessler relatively easily.....and prove himself to be the best british boxer of modern times......world p for p....???....top 5....

[Decebal]

I like the standard of athleticism, not the capitalist structure.

Are you by chance saying that it might take a capitalist structure to bring the best out of an athlete?:scaredas:

[jyuza]

We are talking in terms of actual boxing (and fighting) ability in the ring. Winky endless resume is irrelevant if Joe has proven himself to be a godlike fighter.

Oh well, Joe does have very good boxing skills, no doubt about that.

Jones Jr and PBF are way above him in terms of pure skills though.

[China_hand_Joe]

Are you by chance saying that it might take a capitalist structure to bring the best out of an athlete?:scaredas:By the time you had replied I had ellaborated on the original content of my post.

[China_hand_Joe]

Oh well, Joe does have very good boxing skills, no doubt about that.

Jones Jr and PBF are way above him in terms of pure skills though.Pure fighting ability. I don't think Floyd is on the same level as Joe and Jones as a complete trained physical and mental specimen. He is more technically skilled but even at 135 he wasn't as awe-inspiring as the other two names mentioned.

[Decebal]

By the time you had replied I had ellaborated on the original content of my post.

elaborated, yes, but not sufficiently to answer my question...and for good reasons too!

If money were to play no part driving boxers to excel, we would all be fans of the amateur sport. Why are we disappointed when we hear there is a great Cuban boxer who won't/cannot turn pro? If the amateur game was as good as the pro game, we wouldn't care at all...

China Joe, why does it take the capitalist structure to get the best out of boxers? Why is it not enough to pat them on the back and hang a medal round their necks?

[China_hand_Joe]

China Joe, why does it take the capitalist structure to get the best out of boxers? Why is it not enough to pat them on the back and hang a medal round their necks?Because they are ignorant with flawed ideals thanks to their upbringing in our capitalist society.

[Decebal]

Because they are ignorant with flawed ideals thanks to our capitalist society.

And yet it is a boxer like Joe C. who has played the money game better than most and has been criticised as a result that you consider the best! Money came first for Joe. This is probably the reason why he became so good in the first place. If he had been Cuban, he wouldn't have been as good...

[China_hand_Joe]

And yet it is a boxer like Joe C. who has played the money game better than most and has been criticised as a result that you consider the best! Money came first for Joe. This is probably the reason why he became so good in the first place. If he had been Cuban, he wouldn't have been as good...If he had been a hardcore anti-capitalist he'd be not only one of the best but the greatest of all time having fought anyone and everyone for free, once he had sufficient saving to live off.

[ChuckYoungblood]

Not too many americans in this thread, specially reserved for their opinions on Europe's biggest fight ever...

[China_hand_Joe]

Not too many americans in this thread, specially reserved for their opinions on Europe's biggest fight ever...They are scared of this thread, it might bring their embarrassing perceptions crashing in on themselves.

[jyuza]

Pure fighting ability. I don't think Floyd is on the same level as Joe and Jones as a complete trained physical and mental specimen. He is more technically skilled but even at 135 he wasn't as awe-inspiring as the other two names mentioned.

Man, you just put Joe on the same line as Jones Jr.

Will you go there to watch the Kessler fight ? There is strong chance that I will go myself.

[Decebal]

If he had been a hardcore anti-capitalist he'd be not only one of the best but the greatest of all time having fought anyone and everyone for free, once he had sufficient saving to live off.

No, China Joe...the reason why Joe went for the money and not the best fights had very little to do with the "capitalist structure" and very much to do with the way he is as a human being. Sad but true. He is paying and will be paying after he retires BIG TIME in terms of opportunities lost to build an amazing legacy. Good thing is he doesn't MUCH care...money still probably comes first.

Sorry to hijack your thread...couldn't control myself...(because of the way I am, nothing wrong with the system!):lol:

[China_hand_Joe]

No, China Joe...the reason why Joe went for the money and not the best fights had very little to do with the "capitalist structure" and very much to do with the way he is as a human being. Sad but true. He is paying and will be paying after he retires BIG TIME in terms of opportunities lost to build an amazing legacy. Good thing is he doesn't MUCH care...money still probably comes first.
You have just agreed with me but are denying it.

[China_hand_Joe]

Will you go there to watch the Kessler fight ? There is strong chance that I will go myself.A long way of time-wise, I don't plan that far ahead.

[Decebal]

You have just agreed with me but are denying it.

I will be happy to agree with you but for the life of me, I cannot see with what I have agreed!:think

[jyuza]

A long way of time-wise, I don't plan that far ahead.

Where are you ?

[China_hand_Joe]

Joe is the "way he is as a human being" as he is a product of a capitalist society which I had previously mentioned. "Because they are ignorant with flawed ideals thanks to our capitalist society." We are in agreement which is a good thing.

[Smazz20]

If Calzaghe shuts out Kessler then it will be clear that Kessler was only ever really a cab driver like every other fighter Joe has beaten except for Lacy who was just a little overhyped.

Joe will then fall off the p4p list.

[jyuza]

Nevermind.

How far do you think you can plan something ?

[China_hand_Joe]

Where are you ?In the UK, the same as all Calzaghe fans! 4-8 weeks is long term planning for me.

[China_hand_Joe]

.

[Decebal]

Joe is the "way he is as a human being" as he is a product of a capitalist society which I had previously mentioned. "Because they are ignorant with flawed ideals thanks to our capitalist society." We are in agreement which is a good thing.

Of course it is a good thing if the two of us are in agreement! Except that on this unfortunately we're not!

Everyone who was born and lives in a capitalist society is a product of that society, sure, but not all those "products" are the same as a "human being". Not all thse products would have made the choices that Joe did. Some would have said: I've made enough money, now I will try to make the best fights in search of glory and greatness and will put the monetary considerations second. It's not as if this would have meant he would have fought for free or would not have made hundreds of thousands of pounds a year! But Joe chose differently, going for £ first!

There are some Cuban fighters who despite not being a product of the capitalist society do their outmost to flee to the West to fight professionally to make money, even though in their own country they would have unequalled status and public affection and would be considered heroes by all. Why? Surely it has to do with the way they are personally, as human beings, and little to do with the system.

Joe cannot blame the system on the choices he made as a result of which his legacy will suffer. Sad but true. This is why I go on about Bute having to gun for the best/dare to be great, etc. etc. If he fails to live up to my ideals, I will drop him like a hot potato. Does that make me a boxing fan? Maybe not, but in that case, I don't so much care, because in life it's more important to be a great human being than a great boxer. :good

[Smazz20]

Of course it is a good thing if the two of us are in agreement! Except that on this unfortunately we're not!

Everyone who was born and lives in a capitalist society is a product of that society, sure, but not all those "products" are the same as a "human being". Not all thse products would have made the choices that Joe did. Some would have said: I've made enough money, now I will try to make the best fights in search of glory and greatness and will put the monetary considerations second. It's not as if this would have meant he would have fought for free or would not have made hundreds of thousands of pounds a year! But Joe chose differently, going for £ first!

There are some Cuban fighters who despite not being a product of the capitalist society do their outmost to flee to the West to fight professionally to make money, even though in their own country they would have unequalled status and public affection and would be considered heroes by all. Why? Surely it has to do with the way they are personally, as human beings, and little to do with the system.

Joe cannot blame the system on the choices he made as a result of which his legacy will suffer. Sad but true. This is why I go on about Bute having to gun for the best/dare to be great, etc. etc. If he fails to live up to my ideals, I will drop him like a hot potato. Does that make me a boxing fan? Maybe not, but in that case, I don't so much care, because in life it's more important to be a great human being than a great boxer. :good


Sorry to interrupt but I have to say that your still a boxing fan even if you drop Bute. I'm a big Calzaghe fan, but i'm a boxing fan first and foremost. When Calzaghe retires i'm still gonna watch boxing. Who knows, maybe Bute will become my favoutie fighter then:yep

[China_hand_Joe]

Of course it is a good thing if the two of us are in agreement! Except that on this unfortunately we're not!

Everyone who was born and lives in a capitalist society is a product of that society, sure, but not all those "products" are the same as a "human being". Not all thse products would have made the choices that Joe did. Some would have said: I've made enough money, now I will try to make the best fights in search of glory and greatness and will put the monetary considerations second. It's not as if this would have meant he would have fought for free or would not have made hundreds of thousands of pounds a year! But Joe chose differently, going for £ first!

There are some Cuban fighters who despite not being a product of the capitalist society do their outmost to flee to the West to fight professionally to make money, even though in their own country they would have unequalled status and public affection and would be considered heroes by all. Why? Surely it has to do with the way they are personally, as human beings, and little to do with the system.

Joe cannot blame the system on the choices he made as a result of which his legacy will suffer. Sad but true. This is why I go on about Bute having to gun for the best/dare to be great, etc. etc. If he fails to live up to my ideals, I will drop him like a hot potato. Does that make me a boxing fan? Maybe not, but in that case, I don't so much care, because in life it's more important to be a great human being than a great boxer. :goodSure there are exceptions, but there is no reason why Joe Calzaghe would be one. 99% of people are not an exception, you cannot blame Joe Calzaghe for not being an exception. He had nothing like the upbringing to divert and has had Frank ****** whispering into his ear for over a decade.

[Decebal]

Sorry to interrupt but I have to say that your still a boxing fan even if you drop Bute. I'm a big Calzaghe fan, but i'm a boxing fan first and foremost. When Calzaghe retires i'm still gonna watch boxing. Who knows, maybe Bute will become my favoutie fighter then:yep

:good Smazz20, my point is that I don't support fighters whom I don't respect morally. I don't care what nationality they are, how talented they are, how exciting...I just cannot. The reason why I got into boxing is because of Bute. But if he starts dodging or not doing his outmost to fight the best, I will not be able to support him any more.

I love watching Calzaghe! He is so exciting, at his best! I respect him much more now, although not fully yet, because he has decided to fight Kessler. If he fights the best out there after Kessler until he retires, he will have redeemed himself in my eyes, and I will become a great fan...whether he wins or loses.

It's never too late to start walking on the right path!:old

[Decebal]

Sure there are exceptions, but there is no reason why Joe Calzaghe would be one. 99% of people are not an exception, you cannot blame Joe Calzaghe for not being an exception. He had nothing like the upbringing to divert and has had Frank ****** whispering into his ear for over a decade.

Sorry, China Joe, I don't buy that. Joe is not a 16 year old boy anymore. He is very capable of taking moral decisions. Hatton isn't more intelligent and hasn't had a better upbringing than Joe, and yet he managed to say NO to Frank, for whatever reasons.

[China_hand_Joe]

Sorry, China Joe, I don't buy that. Joe is not a 16 year old boy anymore. He is very capable of taking moral decisions. Hatton isn't more intelligent and hasn't had a better upbringing than Joe, and yet he managed to say NO to Frank, for whatever reasons.Hatton's decisions have been identicle to Joe's. He too is an unfortunate capitalist who turned down Mayweather years ago. Hatton said no to ****** to try and make even more money.

[Decebal]

Hatton's decisions have been identicle to Joe's. He too is an unfortunate capitalist who turned down Mayweather years ago. Hatton said no to ****** to try and make even more money.

You know better, of course, I am new. If Hatton has turned down Mayweather thinking that he might lose, and thus, make less money in the future, I am no longer a big Hatton fan...Is it too late for him to make amends? Probably not...he is still young!

[deram]

Shut out?

Yes....

But wont happen.

[China_hand_Joe]

There has been no event in Joe Calzaghe's life that would have lead to an elightenment like that, the same goes for Hatton and pretty much every other boxer out there. Don't blame them, it isn't their fault nothing triggered a rejection of capitalism in them.

[Decebal]

There has been no event in Joe Calzaghe's life that would have lead to an elightenment like that, the same goes for Hatton and pretty much every other boxer out there. Don't blame them, it isn't their fault nothing triggered a rejection of capitalism in them.

One need not reject capitalism in order to think of legacy first and money second, once one is financially secure for the rest of one's life, does one?

Joe knew precisely what he was doing. He needs no excuses. He thought he could have his cake and eat it, like most of us hope. Now he knows better and has stepped up to the plate! Nice one, Joe!:good

[China_hand_Joe]

One need not reject capitalism in order to think of legacy first and money second, once one is financially secure for the rest of one's life, does one?
The conditioning is arguably even stronger in Hatton, his grandchildren are already set for life. I guarentee he will continue as he has done already too.

[Decebal]

The conditioning is arguably even stronger in Hatton, his grandchildren are already set for life. I guarentee he will continue as he has done already too.

If he doesn't do his utmost to fight PBF he is a very big fool! Everyone without exception will think more of him if he fights a good fight against PBF and loses than if he dodges him...

[China_hand_Joe]

If he doesn't do his outmost to fight PBF he is a very big fool! Everyone without exception will think more of him if he fights a good fight against PBF and loses than if he dodges him...He will fight Paulie next.

[warrior85]

when calzaghe wins he unarguably should be in everyones top 3 p4p

[Darthmage]

I would not consider him the best fighter of the last decade.

Pac beat barrera, moralesx2 and arguably won against marquez as well while also destroying any top contenders thrown at him.

[Decebal]

He will fight Paulie next.

PM is OK, I guess, but if he could fight PBF instead he should do it!

[China_hand_Joe]

PM is OK, I guess, but if he could fight PBF instead he should do it!Hatton could take 2 million (or a lot more) and the fight wouldn't be too difficult to make.

[Zakman]

In impressive fashion could you finally admit he is the best (not greatest - but the best) fighter of the last decade or is at least P4P number one right now. It is an if, but would anyone deny him his status if he did -question-mark-

I have always thought that Calzaghe would EASILY beat Kessler, and I see nothing to make me change that assessment. We are heading toward another Lacy situation, where Calzaghe exposes yet another overrated hype job.:yep

Calzaghe by wide UD

[peter5]

I agree with you there mate, JC waltzes around the dane, making him and his crew look bad...cant wait!

[DanePugilist]

If indeed JC shuts out Kessler - that alone should make him P4P no.1 in my book.

However, that would mean he would have to outdo his performance vs Lacy by far, which would mean that no other SMW should be mentioned in the same breath as him. Not even RJJ.

Sorry for my answer, as I am not American, but Amagerican.

[Amsterdam]

Shut out?

Yes....

But wont happen.

Not only a viscious shutout, but a painful stoppage also.:D

[pecks]

If Joe shuts him out than it'd be clear that Blocky was right all along and Joe had no business whatsoever targetting guys like Kessler. :p

[Amsterdam]

If Joe shuts him out than it'd be clear that Blocky was right all along and Joe had no business whatsoever targetting guys like Kessler. :p

Blocky doesn't rate Kessler, this alone is pretty ridiculous. However, Blocky's said that Calzaghe will blast Kessler into pieces, he's 100% correct about this.

It'll be awe inspiring.:happy

[DanePugilist]

Not only a viscious shutout, but a painful stoppage also.:DStoppage won't top a 12 round beatdown of Kessler, imo. Even when doing it with brittled hands.

[Amsterdam]

Stoppage won't top a 12 round beatdown of Kessler, imo. Even when doing it with brittled hands.

Everyone forgets that he broke his hand in round 8 of the Lacy bout, but kept issuing the brutality.

Oh yeah! We're going to the slaughterhouse Nov. 3rd and Calzaghe's packing two 7.62's that are prepared to spitfire shred a mother fucker, too bad it's Mikkel.

[DanePugilist]

Everyone forgets that he broke his hand in round 8 of the Lacy bout, but kept issuing the brutality.

Oh yeah! We're going to the slaughterhouse Nov. 3rd and Calzaghe's packing two 7.62's that are prepared to spitfire shred a mother fucker, too bad it's Mikkel.It's always allowed to dream - do so now - because on November the 3rd-4th+ it will be over. Reality will hit you like a bad memory.:cool::lol:

[deram]

Stoppage won't top a 12 round beatdown of Kessler, imo. Even when doing it with brittled hands.

I would be more impressed in this order:

1. Beaten to a pulp a la Morrison-Mercer - KO and TKO all in one.
2. One punch KO like Kessler-Beyer.
3. Wide schooling like Kessler-Andrade or Calzaghe-Lacy.
4. Wide points win like Kessler-Mundine or Calzaghe-Bika.
5. TKO like Calzaghe-Mitchell or Kessler-Siaca.
6. Clear points win and interesting to think that I couldn't actually think of a fight with either where they won an uncontroversial fight with 3-4 points. Both have overall absolutely dominated so far.

Of course no matter who wins.

[Amsterdam]

I would be more impressed in this order:

1. Beaten to a pulp a la Morrison-Mercer - KO and TKO all in one.
2. One punch KO
3. Wide schooling.
4. Wide points win.
5. TKO.
6. Clear points win.

Of course no matter who wins.

It's in this order:

1. Supernatural victory
..
...
......
No other way to go about it.:lol:

[DanePugilist]

I would be more impressed in this order:

1. Beaten to a pulp a la Morrison-Mercer - KO and TKO all in one.
2. One punch KO
3. Wide schooling.
4. Wide points win.
5. TKO.
6. Clear points win.

Of course no matter who wins.One should always be impressed with KOs, however - outclassing an elite tops everything in my book, so no. 3 would be no. 1 for me.

[Amsterdam]

It's always allowed to dream - do so now - because on November the 3rd-4th+ it will be over. Reality will hit you like a bad memory.:cool::lol:

I don't care who wins honestly, because only the surname Calzaghe will be victorious.

I really don't care, after all of these months of discussing this bout, it's made and it's going to be great. Let the ridiculous nuthugging commense, because the fucking objectivity is played out!:lol:

5 solid months of this shit, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.

Explosion destructo Calzaghe, rawrrrrr!!!!:yep

[smokey]

It doesn't matter where in the world you're from, Joe has earned some respect. What's in question is how he can stand with a boxer-puncher who has power. Lacy greatly dissapointed in his ability to bring the fight. If he shuts down Kessler anywhere close to how he shut down Lacy, he'll get massive respect.

[Amsterdam]

It doesn't matter where in the world you're from, Joe has earned some respect. What's in question is how he can stand with a boxer-puncher who has power. Lacy greatly dissapointed in his ability to bring the fight. If he shuts down Kessler anywhere close to how he shut down Lacy, he'll get massive respect.

This is inevitable, Kessler has a 10% chance of victory rating from Amsterdam. Lacy had a 0% and I harassed the Lacy fans badly, while ol' Deram was well saying it was 50/50.

TKO 10, b-r-u-t-a-l-i-t-y.

[DanePugilist]

It's in this order:

1. Supernatural victory
..
...
......
No other way to go about it.:lol:Yes, it takes divine prowess to negate the supernatural. Kessler by UD or late TKO.

[Amsterdam]

Yes, it takes divine prowess to negate the supernatural. Kessler by UD or late TKO.

But you aren't being objective.:rofl

[DanePugilist]

But you aren't being objective.:roflNo, but I am not a journalist either:lol:. However, I am a danish retard.

[DanePugilist]

Amsterdam.. man, I just don't see how you rate Kessler a better chance than Lacy?

I was exactly like you, I gave Lacy no fucking chance in hell, thought Joe would be too good from the outside and avoid inside brawling (about the ONLY thing I got wrong with that fight)

But Lacy had a punchers chance, he was an educated boxer who could work the body and head and had a lot more diversity than Kessler

Once Calzaghe figures out the distance and timing, Kessler ain't got fucking shit to back him up or scare him. I give Kessler a 0% chance solely because of this.

Kessler's going to get his shit fucked up, Joe will unify the entire division in one foul swoop and then people will still be saying "Well, he never beat an elite proven American"Yes, we all saw how diverse, Lacy was:good. Lets all hope that TeamCalzaghe listens to you.

[Fedor Em]

If he DOMINATES Kessler he will be top 3-4 on my p4p list, and I will have him as the 2nd best Supermiddle in history (a nose hair ahead of Toney). Hell Calzaghe is already is in my top 6 p4p.

If Wright beats Hopkins

1. Winky Wright
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Rafael Marquez
4. Joe Calzaghe

If Hopkins beats Wright

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Rafael Marquez
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Bernard Hopkins

[Brickhaus]

No. He could knock out Kessler cold in 30 seconds and he still wouldn't move up in my P4P (he's #4 right now, but he's really far behind Floyd, Winky and Pac).

[smokey]

This is inevitable, Kessler has a 10% chance of victory rating from Amsterdam. Lacy had a 0% and I harassed the Lacy fans badly, while ol' Deram was well saying it was 50/50.

TKO 10, b-r-u-t-a-l-i-t-y.

Lacy 0%?!?!? Good prediction on your part, but I think Lacy and his team were just as much to blame for that humiliation as anything. Past the one punch KO, they had no plan. Kessler has also shown plenty more boxing ability than Lacy did. 10%? I'd give him a better chance than that. If Joe totally outclasses him, them he's going to show himself to have been one of the bets kept secrets in boxing.

I'm not going to predict anything, but a dominant Calzague win would be big.

[DanePugilist]

If he DOMINATES Kessler he will be top 3-4 on my p4p list, and I will have him as the 2nd best Supermiddle in history (a nose hair ahead of Toney). Hell Calzaghe is already is in my top 6 p4p.

If Wright beats Hopkins

1. Winky Wright
2. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
3. Rafael Marquez
4. Joe Calzaghe

If Hopkins beats Wright

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
2. Rafael Marquez
3. Joe Calzaghe
4. Bernard HopkinsGood lists. Will you put Kessler at JCs spot, if he wins?

[Amsterdam]

Amsterdam.. man, I just don't see how you rate Kessler a better chance than Lacy?


I'm being nice by giving him 10%.:lol:

That's really lenient considering he's facing his ultimate stylistic nightmare.


I was exactly like you, I gave Lacy no fucking chance in hell, thought Joe would be too good from the outside and avoid inside brawling (about the ONLY thing I got wrong with that fight)


My exact comments on this forum all throughout the wait for that fight was "Calzaghe will win every round, brutalise the fuck out of Lacy and generally smoke him to oblivion".

They all laughed at me, it was a hilarious end. Then I made a thread for all of the Calzaghe haters asking what they thought would happen if he was "managed better", for a while month they were mystified by Calzaghe.:lol:


But Lacy had a punchers chance, he was an educated boxer who could work the body and head and had a lot more diversity than Kessler


Lacy didn't have shit, people act like because a big puncher in Byron Mitchell landed a perfect fully flush shot that Calzaghe walked right into, which also spun his entire body around, only for Calzaghe to get up immediatley and finish off Mitchell... that Joe has a vulnerable chin.

Once Calzaghe figures out the distance and timing, Kessler ain't got fucking shit to back him up or scare him. I give Kessler a 0% chance solely because of this.

Kessler's 10% is if Joe gets old overnight, that's IT. The Calzaghe of even 85% of the Lacy smokes this guy into outer space. TKO 10, BRUTAL.

He'll get more and more tenative and the thrashing will commense.


Kessler's going to get his shit fucked up, Joe will unify the entire division in one foul swoop and then people will still be saying "Well, he never beat an elite proven American


Kessler's going to get annihilated!!!

Of course the yanks will do that, that's why I am highly excited for this fight, but why I preferred Joe to smash Taylor(whom would never sign for it) and THEN to unify against Kessler after, which would merit a P4P #1 ranking.

But Kessler alone will do, it will prove the point.

[Amsterdam]

Good lists. Will you put Kessler at JCs spot, if he wins?

#1 for me.

He'd have beaten the best fighter in boxing. I don't care anything for the Ring's ridiculous list.

[Amsterdam]

Lacy 0%?!?!? Good prediction on your part, but I think Lacy and his team were just as much to blame for that humiliation as anything. Past the one punch KO, they had no plan. Kessler has also shown plenty more boxing ability than Lacy did. 10%? I'd give him a better chance than that. If Joe totally outclasses him, them he's going to show himself to have been one of the bets kept secrets in boxing.

I'm not going to predict anything, but a dominant Calzague win would be big.

Yes, 0 fucking percent and I stood by it for the months leading to the fight in the midst of laughter from naysayers.

While I was being "objective" for the Kessler fight talks, I am SICCCCCK of it.

Calzaghe trashing, beautiful. 10%, he's getting fucked up and thrown in the trash November 3rd.

[DanePugilist]

#1 for me.

He'd have beaten the best fighter in boxing. I don't care anything for the Ring's ridiculous list.Does that include the valued ring belt? Nonetheless, I wholeheartedly agree. Ring is overrated.

[Amsterdam]

Does that include the valued ring belt? Nonetheless, I wholeheartedly agree. Ring is overrated.

Kessler is the man, #1 P4P and the 2nd best SMW ever if he beats Calzaghe.:nod

If he beats Calzaghe, he also starches Dawson easily...

[DanePugilist]

I'm being nice by giving him 10%.:lol:

That's really lenient considering he's facing his ultimate stylistic nightmare.Funny, I rate this fight as Calzaghe nightmare above all.


My exact comments on this forum all throughout the wait for that fight was "Calzaghe will win every round, brutalise the fuck out of Lacy and generally smoke him to oblivion".

They all laughed at me, it was a hilarious end. Then I made a thread for all of the Calzaghe haters asking what they thought would happen if he was "managed better", for a while month they were mystified by Calzaghe.:lol:


Lacy didn't have shit, people act like because a big puncher in Byron Mitchell landed a perfect fully flush shot that Calzaghe walked right into, which also spun his entire body around, only for Calzaghe to get up immediatley and finish off Mitchell... that Joe has a vulnerable chin.
I wasn't a member of the board back then, but who in their right mind can rate Lacy highly after his poor performance? Thats on par with rating Manfredo at top 10 in SMW.

You rightfully predicted a beatdown - surely you didn't just do that prediction by JCs "supernatural" ability alone? There is nothing wrong with JCs chin. However, its not on par with Andrade's. Can JC sustain such malicious onslaught?


Kessler's 10% is if Joe gets old overnight, that's IT. The Calzaghe of even 85% of the Lacy smokes this guy into outer space. TKO 10, BRUTAL.

He'll get more and more tenative and the thrashing will commense.



Kessler's going to get annihilated!!!

Of course the yanks will do that, that's why I am highly excited for this fight, but why I preferred Joe to smash Taylor(whom would never sign for it) and THEN to unify against Kessler after, which would merit a P4P #1 ranking.

But Kessler alone will do, it will prove the point.If JC is anything but 100% he will be thrashed. He needs to be at least 10% better than he was against Lacy to win. He needs to improve his defensive abilities to survive past round 7.

[DanePugilist]

Kessler is the man, #1 P4P and the 2nd best SMW ever if he beats Calzaghe.:nod

If he beats Calzaghe, he also starches Dawson easily...I wouldn't go that far. I do rate JC above Dawson at this point, but the guy has quality. It would never be easy.

[Axe]

In impressive fashion could you finally admit he is the best (not greatest - but the best) fighter of the last decade or is at least P4P number one right now. It is an if, but would anyone deny him his status if he did -question-mark-

Best of the last ten years? No. Jones was still in his prime just 5 years ago.

P4P #1? I'd have him #2 behind Floyd (who is going to jump even further ahead by facing Hatton).

[Fedor Em]

Good lists. Will you put Kessler at JCs spot, if he wins?

Nah, he will be top 10 on my list no doubt, but he has not proven himself like Joe has. Calzaghe has been on top for a while now.

[DanePugilist]

Best of the last ten years? No. Jones was still in his prime just 5 years ago.

P4P #1? I'd have him #2 behind Floyd (who is going to jump even further ahead by facing Hatton).Is that by ability or resume - in both cases? If by ability then I agree. However, Hatton will be his toughest match since Castillo. Think he would deserve a top 3, if he won vs Hatton. As it is, I don't see him removing Pacman and Winky by resume.

[Amsterdam]

Nah, he will be top 10 on my list no doubt, but he has not proven himself like Joe has. Calzaghe has been on top for a while now.

Joe Calzaghe even smokes Fedor in a streetfight. He can't be beaten, why does Kessler have even a little 10% lick of a chance?:think

[Amsterdam]

Is that by ability or resume - in both cases? If by ability then I agree. However, Hatton will be his toughest match since Castillo. Think he would deserve a top 3, if he won vs Hatton. As it is, I don't see him removing Pacman and Winky by resume.

I'm sick of that goddamn Mayweather, I will tell you that.

[DanePugilist]

Nah, he will be top 10 on my list no doubt, but he has not proven himself like Joe has. Calzaghe has been on top for a while now.Ok. I respect your opinion. Lets hope that Kessler will continue to face challenges after JC.

[DanePugilist]

I'm sick of that goddamn Mayweather, I will tell you that.I have vomited already. The guy has abilities, but no way could I rate him no. 1 p4p for what he has done thus far.

[smokey]

Yes, 0 fucking percent and I stood by it for the months leading to the fight in the midst of laughter from naysayers.

While I was being "objective" for the Kessler fight talks, I am SICCCCCK of it.

Calzaghe trashing, beautiful. 10%, he's getting fucked up and thrown in the trash November 3rd.

I'll take you on that. I'm not calling for a Kessler victory. I think it's possible, but I am confident that Joe won't get a blowout victory.

[Axe]

Is that by ability or resume - in both cases? If by ability then I agree. However, Hatton will be his toughest match since Castillo. Think he would deserve a top 3, if he won vs Hatton. As it is, I don't see him removing Pacman and Winky by resume.

You are referring to Floyd?

Most lists go by resume (see Ring mag) and already have him at #1, ahead of Winky and Pac. It is subjective so your list is as good as anyone's. :good

Hatton is a fellow undefeated top 10 P4Per, so beating Hatton does big things for PBF...but he is already at the top of the food chain right now, in the opinion of most.

[Amsterdam]

I have vomited already. The guy has abilities, but no way could I rate him no. 1 p4p for what he has done thus far.

I actually rate Manny Pac as my #1 P4P, even with his numerous flaws.

Floyd has a great 130-135 resume, but above 140, it's just decent.

Corley-Gatti-Mitchell-Judah-Baldomir-DLH(old).

Those are some good names, but he didn't go all out on Baldomir and DLH, where he could have easily stopped both on accumulation by way of those masterful combinations... instead, he fights like a fucking pansy and pot shots his way to a victory. The Judah bout was the last bout where we saw some really stunning Mayweather combinations.

Afraid to break his precious little hands, when Calzaghe busted his in the 8th vs. Lacy and kept throwing bombs until the final bell, yet Calzaghe is a "pussy" to most Americans...;)

I'm not calling on a defencive style, everyone here knows that I am critical of a guys defence, but pot shotting, instead of using your full 100% ability is pretty pathetic.

He's no warrior.

[smokey]

You are referring to Floyd?

Most lists go by resume (see Ring mag) and already have him at #1, ahead of Winky and Pac. It is subjective so your list is as good as anyone's. :good

Hatton is a fellow undefeated top 10 P4Per, so beating Hatton does big things for PBF...but he is already at the top of the food chain right now, in the opinion of most.

Seriously. Outside of the record, watch the fights and analyze the opposition. I don't put Hatton in my top 5 P4p simply because he is so open to a slickster type fighter. In my opinion, you don't get top P4P ranking when you are so open to defeat by a particular style.

[Amsterdam]

Seriously. Outside of the record, watch the fights and analyze the opposition. I don't put Hatton in my top 5 P4p simply because he is so open to a slickster type fighter. In my opinion, you don't get top P4P ranking when you are so open to defeat by a particular style.

Floyd's taking Hatton because it's an easy fight for him, Floyd will unlikely take a hard fight in Miguel Cotto, whom man handles boxers so far.

So a win over Hatton is a good start, but if that's all he's going to go for and then stay away from the other big names, then that deserves disrespect.

[digiram]

I'd give him props, but he'd still be behind PBF and Pac. Those are guys that have dominated their "natural" divisions and have proven to be able to win belts at higher weight classes. If he beats Kessler, then moves up to beat like an Ademak or Dawson, maybe even B-hop, then I might consider moving him towards 1 or 2.

[smokey]

Floyd's taking Hatton because it's an easy fight for him, Floyd will unlikely take a hard fight in Miguel Cotto, whom man handles boxers so far.

So a win over Hatton is a good start, but if that's all he's going to go for and then stay away from the other big names, then that deserves disrespect.
Slow plodding agressors are Floyd's bread and butter. Hatton has a much better chance due to style.

[DanePugilist]

I actually rate Manny Pac as my #1 P4P, even with his numerous flaws.

Floyd has a great 130-135 resume, but above 140, it's just decent.

Corley-Gatti-Mitchell-Judah-Baldomir-DLH(old).

Those are some good names, but he didn't go all out on Baldomir and DLH, where he could have easily stopped both on accumulation by way of those masterful combinations... instead, he fights like a fucking pansy and pot shots his way to a victory. The Judah bout was the last bout where we saw some really stunning Mayweather combinations.

Afraid to break his precious little hands, when Calzaghe busted his in the 8th vs. Lacy and kept throwing bombs until the final bell, yet Calzaghe is a "pussy" to most Americans...;)

I'm not calling on a defencive style, everyone here knows that I am critical of a guys defence, but pot shotting, instead of using your full 100% ability is pretty pathetic.

He's no warrior.They are good names, but Pacman has great names on his resume - so Pacman should rightfully be no. 1.:good

Even if I still feel that Oscar won the fight, I want to give PBF credit for fighting with so many things against him(ring-, glovesize, weightclass) .

I think his accomblishments by resume is highly overrated, and I agree that he is no warrior. I had expected more.

[Amsterdam]

They are good names, but Pacman has great names on his resume - so Pacman should rightfully be no. 1.:good

Even if I still feel that Oscar won the fight, I want to give PBF credit for fighting with so many things against him(ring-, glovesize, weightclass) .

I think his accomblishments by resume is highly overrated, and I agree that he is no warrior. I had expected more.

I scored that bitch 8-4 for Jr., Oscar did nothing for some rounds...

How'd you manage to get that for Oscar?:blood

[Axe]

Seriously. Outside of the record, watch the fights and analyze the opposition. I don't put Hatton in my top 5 P4p simply because he is so open to a slickster type fighter. In my opinion, you don't get top P4P ranking when you are so open to defeat by a particular style.

Open to a slickster type of fighter?

Hatton is a textbook swarmer, and a textbook swarmer is exactly the type of style that is needed to beat someone like PBF.

You are not going to outbox him, you are not going to KO him, what you have to do is get in his face and make it a long night. Hatton is built to make it a rough night for Floyd.

That being said, PBF is simply to talented for any fighter in the 140-154 lb range atm. He will beat Ricky.

[smokey]

Open to a slickster type of fighter?

Hatton is a textbook swarmer, and a textbook swarmer is exactly the type of style that is needed to beat someone like PBF.

You are not going to outbox him, you are not going to KO him, what you have to do is get in his face and make it a long night. Hatton is built to make it a rough night for Floyd.

That being said, PBF is simply to talented for any fighter in the 140-154 lb range atm. He will beat Ricky.

I agree that Hatton' style matches up good against PBF, who I don't really call a "slickster" boxer. Collazo's style is a better example. I'd see Judah being a stylistic nightmare for Hatton, but the stamina issue would give Hatton a win if he could survive the early onslaught of punishment he is guaranteed to absorb.

[DanePugilist]

I scored that bitch 8-4 for Jr., Oscar did nothing for some rounds...

How'd you manage to get that for Oscar?:bloodBecause I saw him win more rounds:cool:. Can't remember my scoring, but I think I had it 7-5 for Oscar, maybe 8-4.

Granted I have only seen it on the fight night, but I saw a Oscar who controlled most of the fight, did most, more willing to do something.

[Steve Fox]

While 'career defining fight' is a popular term, in truth a fighters career is defined by there whole career.

[DanePugilist]

While 'career defining fight' is a popular term, in truth a fighters career is defined by there whole career.Well, judging from this board, one fight alone can ruin the impression of all the others.

Having said this, I don't think that either will ever meet such supreme opposition again.

[haavard]

Think about if Calzaghe and Kessler were American. They would soon be considered all-time greats without a doubt!

[Arthur]

yes if he does that he is the best fighter.
On the other hand, if Kessler KO's Calzaghe than the same can be said for him.

[Illmatic]

hed be p4p #3

[BENNY BLANCO]

In impressive fashion could you finally admit he is the best (not greatest - but the best) fighter of the last decade or is at least P4P number one right now. It is an if, but would anyone deny him his status if he did -question-mark- Joe didn't shut-out Kessler but Andre Ward sure did so does that mean you think he is the best?:hat

[Rudyard]

In impressive fashion could you finally admit he is the best (not greatest - but the best) fighter of the last decade or is at least P4P number one right now. It is an if, but would anyone deny him his status if he did -question-mark-
:lol::rofl Hell no! If he had the supporting resume to back him up then that would be a different story! Joe's a good fighter no doubt about it!

I've been critical of this...Floyd is included but he still has time but Joe on the other hand he retired and well the rest is history!

[Sting]

Wow. Talk about resurrecting a thread.

Anyway, it nice to see Amsterdam's genius posts again. :yep

[janeschicken]

People, bare in mind shutting out a wonderful boxer like Mikkel Kessler is almost impossible.

:lol::lol::lol:

oh boy.

[Will]

The fight was what it was then and there.

Resurecting this thread means nothing.

[Top Dog]

Joe should already be near the top of everybody's P4P list, if you ask me. I probably wouldn't have him at the top, but I wouldn't raise an argument with you if you did.


:happy

[PH|LLA]

Joe didn't shut-out Kessler but Andre Ward sure did so does that mean you think he is the best?:hat
Kessler won 2 rounds on two scorecards and 3 on another.