Best Chin?

[mcvey]

Which Champ in the following divisions had the best chin?

Heavy
LHeavy
Middle

[McGrain]

Heavy, Jeffries.

175, Harry Greb

160 Herry Greb.


How about Ali, Kid Norfolk and Dick Tiger for secondry mentions?

[RoccoMarciano]

Nah that Jeffries is way overrated. Now that second fellow you mention at HW couldn't throw a punch, but he sure had a penchant for taking them :lol:

[McGrain]

Nah that Jeffries is way overrated. Now that second fellow you mention at HW couldn't throw a punch, but he sure had a penchant for taking them :lol:

Well it's said that the light hitting Corbett dropped the green version in sparring...

[RoccoMarciano]

Well it's said that the light hitting Corbett dropped the green version in sparring...

Corbett dropping Ali? Man I thought Ali's chin was better than that :lol:

[McGrain]

Corbett dropping Ali? Man I thought Ali's chin was better than that :lol:

He was very, very young when this happened.

[RoccoMarciano]

He was very, very young when this happened.

You need to remember, some people just seem to exist outside of time.....

[McGrain]

You need to remember, some people just seem to exist outside of time.....

Yes, why worry about punch resistance when you can watch the pyramids being built? It's a wonder he even bothered with Frazier III.

[teeto]

This is very hard to narrow down to one for each division , come on, it would be much easier to do a good few candidates for each , but i supose that's why this thread has been made!!

I know you like the early part of the century McGrain, but i might have to disagree a little!!

HW - Floyd Patterson! Kidding(obviously!) , i'm leaning towards Mercer , but there are contenders for this one.

LHW - Greb , if forced to pick a champion/titlist then maybe Spinks - at 175

MW - With this , and i feel strongly here, there have been great ones, really great ones, Hagler and Greb among them. But imo there is a cream of the crop which is Lamotta, he took the blows of many big-hitters (Bob Satterfield!) , but it is rounds 11 and 12 of the Roinson number6 fight that he proved it to me that it's hard to pick against him. I'd feel the same if we were discussing Wayne McCullough.

[SteveO]

George Chuvalo.

James Toney gets a nod, too.

[RoccoMarciano]

Yes, why worry about punch resistance when you can watch the pyramids being built? It's a wonder he even bothered with Frazier III.

You know what I'm referring to.

[McGrain]

You know what I'm referring to.

;)

[Bill1234]

Which Champ in the following divisions had the best chin?

Heavy
LHeavy
Middle

Heavy-Chuvalo
Lightheavy-can't make up mind.
Middle-Hagler/LaMotta

[Russell]

I'd take McCall over Chuvalo, honestly.

Took Lewis's shots better than Chuvalo did Foreman or Fraziers, in my opinion.

[Bokaj]

Chuvalo might have had the best chin of all HW:s, but the question pertained to champs, didn't it? In that case old George Foreman probably gets the nod. He just seemed impossible to put down.

When it cames to middweights Hagler has to be right up there. I mean Hearns busted what might be the best right hand p4p on his face and he just got pissed off. Even a warrior like Hearns must have pissed himself when he saw that. LaMotta should probably be mentioned as well. "You never got me down, Ray. You never got me down."

[Bummy Davis]

Chuvalo has to be one of the best, because he got hit flush on it by Foreman,Frazier,Quarry, and was not dropped
Ltheavy...Joey Maxim had a good one
Middle....Jake Lamotta had the best(GRANITE)..Hagler had the 2nd best and Monzon

[Russell]

Hagler's chin is definitely better than Monzon's, I'd say.

[SteveO]

You're right. Chuvalo wasn't champ. I should've read more closely.

I change my vote to McCall for HW.

Stil a nod to Toney.

[JohnThomas1]

McCall
Tunney, anyone? (champ at heavyweight...)
LaMotta/Monzon/Greb

[TBooze]

Heavy: Chuvalo

Light Heavy: Spinks deserves a mention IMO

Middle: LaMotta

[Sonny's jab]

It's hard to judge chins at heavyweight. Even a guy with a great chin can get knocked down or even out by a good shot from a 200 pound guy.
I'll say Muhammad Ali.

Billy Conn at light-heavyweight.

Jake LaMotta at middleweight.
(Hagler and Monzon are good alternative choices)

[Holmes' Jab]

HW: Oliver McCall
LHW: Jack Dillon
MW: Carlos Monzon

[Mendoza]

Well it's said that the light hitting Corbett dropped the green version in sparring...

Soruce? Corbett said Jeffries could not be hurt, not even with an ax. I doubt he dropped him in sparring. Fitz and Sharkey hit a ton, in 50+ rounds, they did not come close to scoring a knockdown.

[Sonny's jab]

Soruce? Corbett said Jeffries could not be hurt, not even with an ax. I doubt he dropped him in sparring. Fitz and Sharkey hit a ton, in 50+ rounds, they did not come close to scoring a knockdown.

Dropping a guy and hurting him are two different things.
I've read that Jeffries started sparring with Corbett when he was almost completely inexperienced, a rank novice. I'd be surprised if Corbett, the "dancing master", didn't put him down. Corbett should've been able to feint him off-balance and send him over with a mere tap, assuming Jeffries was as inexperienced as I've been led to believe.

[Holmes' Jab]

McCall
Tunney, anyone? (champ at heavyweight...)
LaMotta/Monzon/Greb

Good shouts. Especially Tunney at his natural weight.

[JohnThomas1]

Good shouts. Especially Tunney at his natural weight.

Tunney might have one of the most underrated chins around.

[mr. magoo]

Best Chins?

How about:

Tommy Morrison
Wladimir Klitschko
Earnie Shavers

[janitor]

Nah that Jeffries is way overrated. Now that second fellow you mention at HW couldn't throw a punch, but he sure had a penchant for taking them :lol:

Jeffries was never off his feet in any profesional fight, pre Johnson, despite being thrown to the wolves early in his career and taking beatings from some helacious punchers.

I think his chin is at least top3 among the lineal heavyweight champions.

[ChrisPontius]

Jeffries was never off his feet in any profesional fight, pre Johnson, despite being thrown to the wolves early in his career and taking beatings from some helacious punchers.

I think his chin is at least top3 among the lineal heavyweight champions.

Well if all heavyweight champions past him faced as best punchers supermiddleweights and feather fisted lightheavies/cruisers who were at the wrong side of 30, i'd say they would look a lot better.

[mr. magoo]

Well if all heavyweight champions past him faced as best punchers supermiddleweights and feather fisted lightheavies/cruisers who were at the wrong side of 30, i'd say they would look a lot better.

Although I respect Janitor's opinions, I have to agree with you Chris. Joe Choynski was a dangerous fighter to be sure, but he was basically about the size of the average modern day middleweight, and he managed to break Jeffries nose. Fitzsimmons was not a particularly big fighter nor in his best days, and he gave Jim a pretty good whipping too. James Jeffries is one of my favorite fighters and I've always respected his toughness, but to rate his chin over men who's durability have been far better tested over the evolution of the division is not appropriate.

[Sonny's jab]

Well, they say Fitzsimmons was a true power puncher and hit like a Louis or a Dempsey. If that's so, then Jeffries' chin was tested.

[mr. magoo]

Well, they say Fitzsimmons was a true power puncher and hit like a Louis or a Dempsey. If that's so, then Jeffries' chin was tested.

I'm sure he hit very hard for a man of his size.

[Sonny's jab]

I'm sure he hit very hard for a man of his size.

Perhaps he hit as hard as Joe Louis, that's what I'm saying.
If so, what does that say about Jeffries' chin ?

[janitor]

Well if all heavyweight champions past him faced as best punchers supermiddleweights and feather fisted lightheavies/cruisers who were at the wrong side of 30, i'd say they would look a lot better.

It is not the size of the people your chin is tested against that counts but their effectivness as a puncher. For example you would probably regard Bob Satterfield as a sterner test of sombodys chin than Primo Carnera.

Was Henry Cooper really a better puncher than Bob Fitzsimmons?

Was Marty Marshal?

Was Jimmy Young?

What about Tom Sharkey?

Jeffries chin has to be judged against the fact that he was thrown in with all time punchers albeit small ones at a verry junior stage of his career. The same supermiddleweights and cruiserweights who failled to drop him were putting away other guys his size brutaly.

[mr. magoo]

Perhaps he hit as hard as Joe Louis, that's what I'm saying.
If so, what does that say about Jeffries' chin ?

If he truly hit as hard as Joe Louis, then I would'nt hesitate to agree with you that Jeffries' chin should not be questioned.

[Sonny's jab]

If he truly hit as hard as Joe Louis, then I would'nt hesitate to agree with you that Jeffries' chin should not be questioned.

But we cant really say if he did or not, and that's why I dont like making assessments of those early "pre-filmed" fighters.

I can discredit Fitz as a puncher because he's a "super-middle", and therefore discredit Jeffries as "not fully tested", that would be silly. Nor can I credit them, since I dont actually know.

I just dont know whether Fitz hit that hard, or whether Jeffries chin held up against a Joe Louis-level puncher. But I wouldn't say it isn't so, just because I dont know.

People who feel comfortable rating the fighters from those eras seem to have a fairly solid case for crediting the fighters though, using contemporary reports and reputations though.

[mr. magoo]

But we cant really say if he did or not, and that's why I dont like making assessments of those early "pre-filmed" fighters.

I can discredit Fitz as a puncher because he's a "super-middle", and therefore discredit Jeffries as "not fully tested", that would be silly. Nor can I credit them, since I dont actually know.

I just dont know whether Fitz hit that hard, or whether Jeffries chin held up against a Joe Louis-level puncher. But I wouldn't say it isn't so, just because I dont know.

People who feel comfortable rating the fighters from those eras seem to have a fairly solid case for crediting the fighters though, using contemporary reports and reputations though.

I agree,

When I responded to Janitor, I said " If " . The truth is that I don't know either. For example, I have never seen a man like Sam Langford fight on film, and neither have most people here, but some claim he would beat the shit out of Nikolay Valuev soley based on his reputation. Frankly, I don't like making judgements about fighters I haven't seen, but people seem to do it all the time.

It's sort of like people who live in the UK saying what a great public speaker Henry VIII was, and that his speaches made Gordon Brown look like a fool. How would you know this??

[Sonny's jab]

I agree,

When I responded to Janitor, I said " If " . The truth is that I don't know either. For example, I have never seen a man like Sam Langford fight on film, and neither have most people here, but some claim he would beat the shit out of Nikolay Valuev soley based on his reputation. Frankly, I don't like making judgements about fighters I haven't seen, but people seem to do it all the time.

It's sort of like people who live in the UK saying what a great public speaker Henry VIII was, and that his speaches made Gordon Brown look like a fool. How would you know this??

I thought you were claiming that Jeffries' chin had NOT been tested as much as later champions. That's how I interpreted your original post (and Icertainly got that from ChrisP's post which you were agreeing with).
I'm guessing janitor thinks it WAS fully tested, enough to be top 3 in heavyweight linear champions.

To be honest, the bare facts of Jeffries' record don't impress me much at all when compared with other heavyweight champions. The fact that he beat old, "small" fighters and fighters attempting comebacks off ridiculous layoffs, I dont see much to be impressed about as far as quality of opposition goes. It's really a stretch for me to imagine they constituted great competition, but as far as punching power goes I dont see why Fitz or whoever else cant have been a murderous puncher and perhaps Jeff's chin really was granite. Those claims I'd consider very minor leaps of faith, whereas much that is claimed about these old-timers I actually consider fantastical leaps of faith.

Like you, I find it easier to discuss stuff that came a couple of decades later and was caught on quality film.

As for Gordon Brown, he looks like a fool regardless of Henry VIII's supposed oratory skills. (The footage backs up this claim.)

[dpw417]

Which Champ in the following divisions had the best chin?

Heavy
LHeavy
Middle
I'll go with
Heavyweight: Chuvalo.
Lightheavweight: Maxim...For my money. He fought absolutely everyone in his era. I recently saw an old article online from Time Magazine entitled something like "I've got the best bum out there!"...In the article Doc Kearns stated that Maxim had the best chin of any fighter he ever worked with, including Dempsey and Walker!...That's good enough for me.
Middleweight: LaMotta.

[mcvey]

It is not the size of the people your chin is tested against that counts but their effectivness as a puncher. For example you would probably regard Bob Satterfield as a sterner test of sombodys chin than Primo Carnera.

Was Henry Cooper really a better puncher than Bob Fitzsimmons?

Was Marty Marshal?

Was Jimmy Young?

What about Tom Sharkey?

Jeffries chin has to be judged against the fact that he was thrown in with all time punchers albeit small ones at a verry junior stage of his career. The same supermiddleweights and cruiserweights who failled to drop him were putting away other guys his size brutaly.
Jack Johnson said Choynsky hit harder than Fitz ,Fitz hit harder than Jeffries.Choynsky and Fitz were small ,and while I think Jeffries is a little overated ,especially his defence ,ironically this leads me to beleive he must have had a top chin,a s not being especially elusive he took shots from but Fitz and Choynsky,without going down ,though he looked a sight after the fights.So though Jeffries met no very big men who could hit ,he did meet the best punchers of his era and stay upright.

[JohnPaul Futbol]

HW: Jay Leno

[janitor]

If he truly hit as hard as Joe Louis, then I would'nt hesitate to agree with you that Jeffries' chin should not be questioned.

I dont honestly know whether Fitzsimmons hit as hard as Louis.

I am a bit skeptical myself.

What I am sold on is that Fitz was the best pure puncher in the heavyweight division between John L Sullivan and Sam Langford. Some writers who saw these guys fight qestioned Jeffries power but nobody questioned Fitz's power. Nobody really questioned it untill the people who had seen him started dying off.

The deeper you get into Fitz the more the claims of Fleischer and others for his punching ability start to ring chillingly true.

[mcvey]

Which Champ in the following divisions had the best chin?

Heavy
LHeavy
Middle
My picks H Ali / Jeffries
LH Maxim/Greb
M Lamotta /Hagler

[ChrisPontius]

It is not the size of the people your chin is tested against that counts but their effectivness as a puncher. For example you would probably regard Bob Satterfield as a sterner test of sombodys chin than Primo Carnera.

Was Henry Cooper really a better puncher than Bob Fitzsimmons?

Was Marty Marshal?

Was Jimmy Young?

What about Tom Sharkey?

Jeffries chin has to be judged against the fact that he was thrown in with all time punchers albeit small ones at a verry junior stage of his career. The same supermiddleweights and cruiserweights who failled to drop him were putting away other guys his size brutaly.
Henry Cooper wasn't in the situation that he hadn't won a single fight in 5 years time. He wasn't 36 or 38 years old, either.

And yes, if Ali retired after the Cooper fight, i'd say he had a weak jaw. But he proved beyond any doubt in the 40 fights years after Cooper that his chin is outstanding.


Marshal caught a young and green Liston. Young knocked a young Foreman down indeed and i think this, combined with the fact that the only puncher (1st career) that landed on him had him down twice and nearly out, makes me question his chin.


I know what you're aiming at (most fighters were knocked down by lesser punchers), and that certainly speaks for Jeffries..... BUT! I find it ridiculous to rank him at the absolute top when he has never faced a 210+lbs puncher. Fitzsimmons was a tiny guy compared to most heavyweights that Louis, Ali, Lewis, Holyfield, Frazier et al had to deal with. On top of that, he was 36 years old.

A good chin? Sure. One of the best of all time? Not tested enough.


Janitor, let me ask you something.

Ike Ibeabuchi was never knocked down in any of his early fights, took every bomb of David Tua (who never looked more impressive before or after) without flinching. To me, based on that alone he has survived a much heavier test than any that Jeffries had. Would you rank him at the absolute top of chins for that? What about Vitali Klitschko ?


No?

Now let's say Ibeabuchi faced Jeff Lacy. But not just any Lacy, but a 36 year old one. Ike didn't get knocked down and won by knockout. After that, he faced Cunningham, a 36 year old version who hadn't won a fight since he was 31. Ibeabuchi didn't get knocked down against him either.
Actually, you can replace Cunningham by Chris Byrd since he could probably come down to cruiser. And of course assume he is 36 years old and hasn't won a fight in 5 years. Of course, we already know that Ike didn't get knocked down by Byrd. He ate him up.

Would he now rank in your top3 best chins of all time?

[janitor]

[quote=ChrisPontius]Henry Cooper wasn't in the situation that he hadn't won a single fight in 5 years time. He wasn't 36 or 38 years old, either.


I dont think you can assume a period of inactivity on the part of fighters of this period based on a gap in their record. They somtimes had unrecored fights even as champions against lesser opposition and some sparring sesions of the period were more like no decision bouts.

Furthermore Cooper was never close to being in the class of Fitzsimmons and Corbett anyway.


And yes, if Ali retired after the Cooper fight, i'd say he had a weak jaw. But he proved beyond any doubt in the 40 fights years after Cooper that his chin is outstanding.


Jeffries was probably less tested than the Ali of the Cooper fight when he started fighting the top punchers of the period.

Dosnt their failure to capitalize on this to the extent of a flash knockdown tell us something about his chin?

Furthermore since you clearly dont rate Jeffries defence you have to upgrade his chin in light of the above facts.

Marshal caught a young and green Liston.

Probably no more green than Jeffries was when he started fighting the top contenders of his era.

I know what you're aiming at (most fighters were knocked down by lesser punchers), and that certainly speaks for Jeffries.....
BUT! I find it ridiculous to rank him at the absolute top when he has never faced a 210+lbs puncher. Fitzsimmons was a tiny guy compared to most heavyweights that Louis, Ali, Lewis, Holyfield, Frazier et al had to deal with. On top of that, he was 36 years old.


Against smaller all time punchers he is prety darn tested. I wouldnt necisarily put him in the No1 spot but I think that he has a fair case. Your argument about the size of the punchers he faced is half valid. Presumably you would consider sombody who went the distance against Joe Louis to have a more tested chin than sombody who went the distance against Primo Carnera or even Wlad Klitschko?


Janitor, let me ask you something.

Ike Ibeabuchi was never knocked down in any of his early fights, took every bomb of David Tua (who never looked more impressive before or after) without flinching. To me, based on that alone he has survived a much heavier test than any that Jeffries had. Would you rank him at the absolute top of chins for that? What about Vitali Klitschko ?


I consider Ibeabuchi's chin to be one of the best that I have personaly seen as well as Tuas. I think that the second Jeffries Sharkey fight is comparable to Tua Ibeabuchi as a test of durability. They probably both shipped more punishment over twice the distance.


Now let's say Ibeabuchi faced Jeff Lacy. But not just any Lacy, but a 36 year old one. Ike didn't get knocked down and won by knockout. After that, he faced Cunningham, a 36 year old version who hadn't won a fight since he was 31. Ibeabuchi didn't get knocked down against him either.
Actually, you can replace Cunningham by Chris Byrd since he could probably come down to cruiser. And of course assume he is 36 years old and hasn't won a fight in 5 years. Of course, we already know that Ike didn't get knocked down by Byrd. He ate him up.


Now lets asume that Lacey has knocked out Sam Peter with a single punch along with a few other top heavyweights and cruiserweights. I certainly didnt expect it to happen but now I cant deny the hype. Obviously he is a top heavyweight puncher incredible as it may seem.

I think the diference between our positions is that you look at the size of the fighter while I look at the fighter as an all round package.

[Sonny's jab]

Fitzsimmons was knocking big or durable men out cold, like Tom Sharkey for example.
The burly 220 pound Jeffries couldn't knock Sharkey out.
But Jeffries can be classed as a "210+ pound puncher".

If Jeffries had fought a clone of himself - and soaked up a load of power shots - I dont think that weighs heavier to credit his chin than him doing same against Fitzsimmons.

It seems that Fitz had a top league HEAVYWEIGHT punch, regardless of his body weight. If we cant take that as a given fact handed down from the era then we cant take anything, and should perhaps remain skeptical to the point of professing no knowledge whatsoever of the era.

I'm very skeptical of the pre-filmed era but even I would concede that it's about 99% likely that Fitz packed a powerful top level "HEAVYWEIGHT" punch. I'm "guessing" he had more KO power than Jeffries, and I'm "guessing" that Jeffries packed a decent heavyweight punch. Simple evidence, and simple testimony suggests something of that nature, I'm not exactly taking a huge leap of faith.

Punching power isn't a subtle nuance or an elaborate claim on the "style" or "ability" of a fighter. Fitz knocked big tough guys out with single shots, guys who stood up well to far bigger fighters. He did it, therefore he's a banger. I dont see where the doubt arises.

[JohnThomas1]

So what more modern day fighters would you compare his power to Sonny? Tyson, Bruno, Lewis, Shavers, Holmes, Ali, Klit, Bowe, Holyfield, Louis, Marciano etc.

[Vantage_West]

McCall
? dunno
Eubank

[janitor]

So what more modern day fighters would you compare his power to Sonny? Tyson, Bruno, Lewis, Shavers, Holmes, Ali, Klit, Bowe, Holyfield, Louis, Marciano etc.

As with most all time great punchers his power might not be anything totaly off the scale.

Nobody to my knowledge ever said that Louis or Tyson was the hardest hitter they ever faced.

An all time great puncher is 70% technique and 30% power for my money.

[ozziebattler]

Oliver McCall.

Even as he gotten older he still takes shots like no other.

[Sonny's jab]

So what more modern day fighters would you compare his power to Sonny? Tyson, Bruno, Lewis, Shavers, Holmes, Ali, Klit, Bowe, Holyfield, Louis, Marciano etc.

I cant categorically compare him, I dont like comparing pre-filmed fighters against fighters I can assess properly on film.

I assume (based on his reputation and his build) that he was a SHARPER "KO" puncher than some of those you mention above, some of the brute heavy-handed clubbers. But those guys could probably cause more distress with non-KO blows, that's the trade-off.

His reputation for punching "power" was not surpassed by either Jim Jeffries or Jack Johnson, and I'd go along with that, (though perhaps Langford was considered by some his equal) and when Dempsey burst on the scene it was Fitzsimmons (Dempsey's idol) the writers often compared his punching ability to.

I've seen Dempsey and Johnson on film, and I can say I think Dempsey compares favourably with Louis and Tyson as a puncher, and Johnson looks capable of hitting at least as hard as Ali or Holmes.
So I reckon Fitzsimmons must be well in the midst of the pack you mention. I could try to be MORE specific but I havent even considered an order in which those names you mention would be listed as punchers. Fitzsimmons was a dangerous puncher, that's the bottom line.

[Sonny's jab]

As with most all time great punchers his power might not be anything totaly off the scale.

Nobody to my knowledge ever said that Louis or Tyson was the hardest hitter they ever faced.

An all time great puncher is 70% technique and 30% power for my money.

It depends how you define "power".
I think power includes technique. The power of a punch is ultimately measured by what it does to the man it lands upon.
Powerful punches aren't always the "hardest" or "heaviest" blows, that's true.

[janitor]

It depends how you define "power".
I think power includes technique. The power of a punch is ultimately measured by what it does to the man it lands upon.
Powerful punches aren't always the "hardest" or "heaviest" blows, that's true.

I would say that Joe Louis might have had less raw power in one punch than say Frank Bruno, but when it comes down to who was the more effective puncher its no contest in favour of Louis.

Fitzsimmons might have had less raw power than Gerald McClelan or Jeff Lacey but he had something they didnt. The ability to deliver it the way it would do most damage. That is what sets guys like Langford, Dempsey, Louis, Tyson etc apart from the rank and file punchers.

The best way to describe Fitzsimmons is as as Charley Burley in Gerald McCleland body.

[mr. magoo]

Over the past year, I have taken a serious long look at Joe Louis's career, and have come to the conclusion ( based on my own observations, and no one elses, ) that he was quite possibly the greatest puncher of all time. There were very few heavyweights who matched his actual power and virtually none who had his technical skills as a puncher.

When we talk about chins, a name that deserves mention should probably be James Braddock. He was never previously Ko'd in some, 84 fights going in with Louis, and had survived Max Baer for 15 rounds. Despite returning after a two year abscence, Braddock managed to take a prime Louis's best for 8 rounds.

In review,

James Braddock was only stopped once in a total of 86 pro fights, to who I personally feel as the best puncher of all time, and managed to take his best for a long duration, when past his prime. I think Braddock's chin was extremely solid...

[bigjake]

You're right. Chuvalo wasn't champ. I should've read more closely.

I change my vote to McCall for HW.

Stil a nod to Toney.

george chuvalo was a canadian heavyweight champion for many years

[Doppleganger]

Heavy - McCall for me - never been dropped or even staggered although certain fighters (Bruno/Lewis) did make him go into a shell.

LHW - I have no idea.

Middle - Hagler for me, his record of durability speaks for itself and how many middles in history could have taken that first big right from Tommy Hearns?

[Russell]

I never saw Lennox make McCall go into a shell.

He was just pissing him off the second time. McCall put his fucking hands down and was taunting Lennox to hit him again.

[Doppleganger]

I never saw Lennox make McCall go into a shell.

He was just pissing him off the second time. McCall put his fucking hands down and was taunting Lennox to hit him again.
Maybe the wrong choice of words there but McCall did quit. He wasn't, however, rocked or staggered by either Bruno, Lewis or anyone else AFAIK. I haven't seen the Seldon fight though.

[Russell]

I've seen it. He was never stunned.

Seldon got his attention, but that was about it.

[Bigcat]

Oliver McCall (former world heavyweight champ , never stopped or knocked down or out in a long career)

Gotta be considered at heavyweight.........

[ChrisPontius]

Maybe the wrong choice of words there but McCall did quit. He wasn't, however, rocked or staggered by either Bruno, Lewis or anyone else AFAIK. I haven't seen the Seldon fight though.

Lewis rocked McCall briefly in the 3rd round, 1:06. McCall lunges in with a hook and while he misses, Lewis comes over the top with a hard right hand, briefly stunning Oliver although he was off-balance. Nothing to make a big deal out of if it was a normal fighter, but since McCall is nearly invurnerable to punches, it's worth pointing out. Masterful boxing display by Lennox, by the way. His peak fight perhaps, along with Golota.