Lennox vs Vitali, explain or just vote

[H .]

I want to know what most people think. So here's an unbiased thread for you to simply pick a direction. This is a fight, 6/21/03, that has been talked about for years. Lewis won by 6th round TKO, some say there's more to it while others say there isn't. You know you have something to say about it, so go ahead and lay it all down for everyone to see, or just vote. Let's see what the majority says.

[KobeIsGod]

Lennox was on his last legs. Did u see him collapse on to his stool? Manny Steward had to give him mouth-to-mouth. Vitail took Lewis' best shots and refused to quit. Vitali was just getting his second wind and no doubt Vitali would have knocked out Lewis in the 7th if not for that stupid doctor who stopped the fight due to that cat scratch on Vit. Then Lennox, who promised Vitali a rematch, bitched out and decided instead to stink up the HBO broadcast booth instead of the ring w/his arrogance.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

[KO byBRIGGS]

Vitali was hurt badly and would have probably had his career ended had it continued. A great fight none the less and Viatli showed alot of heart.

[Steve Fox]

Lewis put a horseshoe in his glove, everybody knows that, he even admitted it in an interview.

[lamont zero]

i really liked the fight and i dislike the debate after it but it shows me und all of us that a good match-up can have two winners: the fighters and us. lewis took vitalis best shots and did not go down and vice versa. i am a huge lennox-fan and vitali earned a lot of respect for his heart by giving his best but in the end it was so close. he had to knock lennox out because he knew the fight would be stopped on his cuts but he did not manage to knock out an old ATG.

[FlatNose]

The cut was very nasty, Vitali was given every reasonable chance to turn things around, and the injury was undoubtably caused by a punch.That is a conclusive ending, like it or not.Lennox was 37 years old at the time so he can't be faulted for retiring afterwards, it was a smart move.So whats all the fuss about?

[H .]

So far, folks are favoring Lennox, but it's damn close. Interesting.

[Brendan]

Great fight. The cut was unfortunate as we were robbed of a better ending.

I think Vitali would have taken Lewis out.

[BaronBrad]

I voted "The result is all that matters, Lennox won". As stated in the original post the fight was in 2003. Who cares about the early rounds, Lennox won. I do think he would have stopped Vitali had it continued.

[magnificentdave]

The fight had a disappointing ending, and while you cannot *blame* Lewis for not rematching him, due to his age and the chance to go out on top- I think it would have been the honorable thing to do.

I'm not sure how to phrase it, but it seems Lewis lost, if he ever had it, his warrior, or gladiator spirit and was no longer concerned so much with the real glory of the boxing ring, or maybe too concerned about his image/legacy and worried about suffering a loss.

It was a back and forth fight, and while Lennox clearly won a TKO victory, it is silly to think you can accurately predict what would have happened had the fight not been stopped, I think both fighters had the tenacity and chins to take it 12 rounds to a decision, albeit they would have been dead tired and barely standing by leaning on each other by the end... it would have been epic. More epic, anyways.

[Shotgun]

My thoughts are that the fight happened 4 years ago, Lennox Lewis won and everyone should get over it. *If* the cut didn't happen maybe it would have turned out different. But the cut did happen, and the stoppage was not out of line at all, all the complaining and debating isn't going to change a thing. I can't believe how many people still get riled up discussing this fight

[Erebus]

Lennox TKO6.... Nuff Said:deal

[Mendoza]

I want to know what most people think. So here's an unbiased thread for you to simply pick a direction. This is a fight, 6/21/03, that has been talked about for years. Lewis won by 6th round TKO, some say there's more to it while others say there isn't. You know you have something to say about it, so go ahead and lay it all down for everyone to see, or just vote. Let's see what the majority says.

How about an option for there should have been a re-match, but $25,000,000.00 was not enough for Lewis to tempt fate again in a fight where he losing, but saved by cuts.

[Bazooka]

Vitali looked out of gas at the end of the sixth the seventh round would have been Lewis's all day not saying he would have stopped Vitali in that round but judging from the way Vitali looked at the end of the 6th Lewis might have we just dont know, so lets just say Lewis wins the next round, That cut would have gotten worse as a result of the fight moving forward.
Taking away any vision Vitali had away from him regarding that eye, and I am sorry against a banger Like Lewis you must have both eyes to win, I am assuming after the 7th Vitali would have picked up his second wind, However the damage from that cut and the blood would have made it harder for Vitali to do much with that second wind.
Either way clearly to me Vitali was in big trouble with the cut alone, he was just as tired as Lennox at the end of the sixth but remember Lewis did land about six or seven solid upper cuts at the end of the sixth that left Vitali holding on at the end of the round.
I agree its a toss up, but with one eye and being out of gas that 7th round would have been Hell, Lewis IMO would have knocked him out

[Mendoza]

Vitali looked out of gas at the end of the sixth the seventh round would have been Lewis's all day not saying he would have stopped Vitali in that round but judging from the way Vitali looked at the end of the 6th Lewis might have we just dont know, so lets just say Lewis wins the next round, That cut would have gotten worse as a result of the fight moving forward.
Taking away any vision Vitali had away from him regarding that eye, and I am sorry against a banger Like Lewis you must have both eyes to win, I am assuming after the 7th Vitali would have picked up his second wind, However the damage from that cut and the blood would have made it harder for Vitali to do much with that second wind.
Either way clearly to me Vitali was in big trouble with the cut alone, he was just as tired as Lennox at the end of the sixth but remember Lewis did land about six or seven solid upper cuts at the end of the sixth that left Vitali holding on at the end of the round.

I agree its a toss up, but with one eye and being out of gas that 7th round would have been Hell, Lewis IMO would have knocked him out


But Lewis nearly collapsed on his stool at the end of round six. Older fighters often shoot their loads and go for a knockout when they know they can not win a distance fight. Lewis never scored a TKO beyond round 8 in his life. After the fight was stopped, the entire arena saw Vitlai had plenty of energy left.

[Danny Ocean]

a cut is part of boxing, especially when caused by a punch

lewis won because he did more damage to vitali,

[Bazooka]

But Lewis nearly collapsed on his stool at the end of round six. Older fighters often shoot their loads and go for a knockout when they know they can not win a distance fight. Lewis never scored a TKO beyond round 8 in his life. After the fight was stopped, the entire arena saw Vitlai had plenty of energy left.

That was after the fight, after the winner was announced after he knew for sure it was over basicly it was an act, not really an act but he made it clear he wanted to continue.
Lewis did collapse in his stool sure, which is why I said you cant really say weather or not Lewis would have knocked him out, but what you can argue is that the cut would have gotten worse in the 7th and that would not have helped Vitali at all no matter how much he had left in the tank.
and even though Lewis never scored a TKO after the 8th round in his entire life, that doesnt mean he wouldnt have in that fight, we know that when fights have gotten ruff when Vitali has had injuries he has a history of quitting as well, so you dont know what would have happend had it continued.
I still dont understand why The klitschko fans are still all over this fight? it was years ago, they are upset becuase Lewis chose to do the right thing and retire with his marbles still intact, its insane especially when you look at their excuses when Vitali decided to hang them up, they were saying the same thing, he may as well retire for his own saftey and health yet Lewis isnt allowed to do the same?
I just dont get it, There are rules in this sport every fighter knows that if a cut happens and its a bad cut the fight can be stopped, Lewis beat the man with in the rules of the sport and he is the man getting bashed for it, I just dont fucking get it

[barneyrub]

Lennox was on his last legs. Did u see him collapse on to his stool? Manny Steward had to give him mouth-to-mouth. Vitail took Lewis' best shots and refused to quit. Vitali was just getting his second wind and no doubt Vitali would have knocked out Lewis in the 7th if not for that stupid doctor who stopped the fight due to that cat scratch on Vit. Then Lennox, who promised Vitali a rematch, bitched out and decided instead to stink up the HBO broadcast booth instead of the ring w/his arrogance.

:rofl :rofl :roflWhat we saw actually was Lewis hitting vitali during the last round and vitali trying to hold on. After the bell who cares! During the round Lewis was on top and vitali couldnt defend himself or throw any punches back, he looked out on his feet at the bell as he took another uppercut as he tried to hold on.
Promised a rematch? When did he "promise", there is a difference between talking about the possiblility and "Promising".
"Stupid doctor", "cat scratch!." Those words display your childish hate.

[barneyrub]

But Lewis nearly collapsed on his stool at the end of round six. Older fighters often shoot their loads and go for a knockout when they know they can not win a distance fight. Lewis never scored a TKO beyond round 8 in his life. After the fight was stopped, the entire arena saw Vitlai had plenty of energy left.no he didnt lol, he sat down from the position he ended the round in in that corner then straightened himself up, big deal, it was after the bell! The point you should be looking at is who was still punching while the round was in progress and who was trying to hold on and unable to defend or punch. Vitali was like a frozen statue as he tried to hold on at the bell.

[Fighting Weight]

That display from VITLAY at the end of the fight was just smoke and mirrors. Basically he acted tough when he knew the fight was over and Lennox wasn't going to hit him no more. Pathetic when you consider that VITLAY was ready to quit anyway if the doctor hadn't stopped it.

Notice he didn't even protest when the doctor said he was going to stop the fight, he only had his hissy fit once it was all over :roll:

What a bum.

[Ilesey]

A previous poster summed this fight up in a nutshell.

Lewis TKO 6.

:hi:

[achillesthegreat]

Two points:
1) Lewis was the smarter fighter and was pacing himself. Vitali continued to shoot his load. Lewis was investing with hard and heavy shots which were taking their toll on Vitalis stamina, body and face.
2) Lewis punches brought about a stoppage. This wasn't one freak cut. This was a systematic butchering of Vitalis face. It got progressively worse. Vitali didn't adapt to it. Surely he didn't think they would just let it go on.

[Maxmomer]

I don't undertsand the controversry with this fight. Vitali lost by TKO. The cut was bad enought to warrant a TKO and what caused the cut? Lewis's fists.

[Gabriel R.]

I don't know, but I believe the knockout would have come soon, while I don't know who would have settled it. The chances were pretty equal for both fighters. Vitali was on a mission that evening and appeared almost unstoppable, but like Lennox, he also was damaged and exhausted. So everything could have happened at that point of time.

From the poll I can't chose any option, but I give big credit to Vitali. Until the stoppage, he was the slightly better man in a balanced fight.

[ChampionsForever]

Vitali was going DO[Only registered and activated users can see links] he was winning sure but big boys dont fight 6 round fights, Lennox would have KOd lurch.

[El Bombasto]

It's hard to believe that Vitali would have won that fight, unless you sincerely felt that he was on the verge of knocking out Lewis within the next two rounds. If the fight were allowed to continue, the cut would have gotten worse and the fight would have been stopped anyway, barring a knockout by VK.

[lefthook31]

Lewis fought a very uncharacteristic but necessary fight to defeat a guy that fights tall and moves well for his height. Because he had to go out of his comfort zone it made him look vulnerable and he got hit a little more than he often does, but it was effective and he was breaking Vitali down round by round, and was really close to stopping him if the fight would have continued.

[ripcity]

Just watched the fight on youtube. (I'm pretty sure it was the whole fight, the video was in German which I don't speak and had "Rockey" music).
If the videos I watched did not show every minuet of every round. I did not time the rounds to see if what they showeed was 3 minuets. They also switched to black and wite close ups. If the video was edited I would think that it being in German the editing would favor Vitali.
That being said I thought the first two rounds were kind of sloppy espicialy the first. The next three rounds Vitali seemed to and first and more but Lennox also landed shots of his own. I didn't bother to keep score, but I would give a slight edege to Vitali. He was hardly domating like some people might suguest.
Should the fight have been stoped when it was? I'm not a doctor so I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure you dont get a cut like Vitali had with out getting hit. I think he could have gone on, but with Lennox targeting it and makeing it worse the fight probbly would not have gone past the eighth round. Unless Vitali's cornor were able to fix it something they were not able to do sense the third round when it opened up.
What were to happen if the fight were to contune will be debated for a long time.
My opionion is that Lennox would have targeted that cut making it worse and worse. Vitali having to protect it would open up more opitions for Lennox. Lennox probbly would have taken the lead on the score cards in the 9th or 10th round and winning a decision or a 11th or 12th round stopage. If Vitali's corner were able to fix the cut if not the result would have been Lennox by TKO in the eighth round or between the eighth and ninth rounds.:bbb :rasta

[BobDigi5060]

Lennox had the momentum at the end but give Vitali credit.

[Bazooka]

Lennox had the momentum at the end but give Vitali credit.

Vitali does get credit, but not as much as the nuthuggers are expecting I am sorry it just dont work that way, in fact I think he is getting too much credit from a fucking loss when the fuck does that ever happen?

[Fighting Weight]

Vitali does get credit, but not as much as the nuthuggers are expecting I am sorry it just dont work that way, in fact I think he is getting too much credit from a fucking loss when the fuck does that ever happen?

He gets credit because everyone expected him to quit, basically. He probably would have quit too, if the doctor hadn't taken the decision away from him.

[Bazooka]

He gets credit because everyone expected him to quit, basically. He probably would have quit too, if the doctor hadn't taken the decision away from him.

Be careful what you say, that statement makes you a hater!!!!!:twisted: :hey

[Fighting Weight]

Be careful what you say, that statement makes you a hater!!!!!:twisted: :hey

You spelt hatter wrong :twisted:

[BobDigi5060]

Vitali was getting his ass beat in the rounds before the stoppage.

[H .]

As of now, 51 - 42 favoring Lennox, with 3 picking neither. Very interesting.

[Marciano Frazier]

I agree with four of the six possible answers in the poll. I do think Lewis would probably have knocked Vitali out had the fight gone on, I do think the most important thing is the actual result, I do think Vitali deserves credit for having been up on the scorecards, and I do have something else to say(that last sentence).

[H .]

Even with a lot of people saying that only the result matters, most of y'all are saying Lennox or Vitali would've won by KO. Pretty close though.

[Liston3]

Lennox won... Plain and simple... THE RESULT SAYS LEWIS TKO6 KLITCHSKO, Klitchsko fans will say anything, i remember a klit fan making a post about Lewis using his braids to open up the kiltcsko cut :bart :patsch

[dwilson]

Lewis would have gone onto destroy Vitali the next couple of rounds.

[Street Lethal]

I picked "Give Vitali a little credit, the scorecards favored him" because that fits closest to my opinion. I don't know who would have won. Vitali had Lennox in some trouble. He impressed me with his accuracy. It was a poor way for Lewis to go out.

[H .]

Lots of mixed feelings here!

[Vantage_West]

i really liked the fight and i dislike the debate after it but it shows me und all of us that a good match-up can have two winners: the fighters and us. lewis took vitalis best shots and did not go down and vice versa. i am a huge lennox-fan and vitali earned a lot of respect for his heart by giving his best but in the end it was so close. he had to knock lennox out because he knew the fight would be stopped on his cuts but he did not manage to knock out an old ATG.i totally agree about having 2 winners gatti-ward was similar or hearns-hagler

but the point was that vitali is a loved fighter and lennox was disliked only the real boxing fans liked lennox. it was a great way to go out in my opinion beat the man who would become the next lineal champion

but lennox won whatever was going to happen vitali was starting to fade ,miss shots and get backed up...im almost sure he would of finished vitali while klitschko was on his feet.good(sane) post:good

[Vantage_West]

I picked "Give Vitali a little credit, the scorecards favored him" because that fits closest to my opinion. I don't know who would have won. Vitali had Lennox in some trouble. He impressed me with his accuracy. It was a poor way for Lewis to go out.really he stopped a man who would later go on to be the best of his division whats wrong with that:huh

[Vantage_West]

Lennox won... Plain and simple... THE RESULT SAYS LEWIS TKO6 KLITCHSKO, Klitchsko fans will say anything, i remember a klit fan making a post about Lewis using his braids to open up the kiltcsko cut :bart :patschof course why didnt i think of this. they are laced to gether by razor wire if i remember correctly:think thats it i changed my mind vitali by glorious 10th round knock out:lol:

[H .]

No comments by Ruskull or Heavyrighthand? :huh

[H .]

bump :D
Lots of talk about Vitali going on with his comeback and all. Of course, where there's talk of Vitali, somehow the Lennox-Vitali argument is brought up again.
The result of this poll shows the majority :hey
Oh, and someone mentioned Vitali scaring Lennox into retirement? :think

[H .]

Lewis was preparing for a different, much less dangerous opponent (Kirk Johnson) when Vitali was inserted into the fight. It was an excellent fight. No need in debating what might have happened. The cut was terrible and the stoppage totally fair and warranted. Lennox Lewis has always been a calculating guy and smartly retired after this fight. He handled his money well and felt he had nothing left to prove.

Perhaps, but I still would've loved to see a rematch though, regardless of its outcome.

[Mind Reader]

I voted for the result is all that matters Lennox won, but yes he would have KO'ed Vitali if the fight would have been continued.

[barneyrub]

Lennox was on his last legs. Did u see him collapse on to his stool? Manny Steward had to give him mouth-to-mouth. Vitail took Lewis' best shots and refused to quit. Vitali was just getting his second wind and no doubt Vitali would have knocked out Lewis in the 7th if not for that stupid doctor who stopped the fight due to that cat scratch on Vit. Then Lennox, who promised Vitali a rematch, bitched out and decided instead to stink up the HBO broadcast booth instead of the ring w/his arrogance.

:rofl :rofl :roflDURING the th round it was vitali who looked out on his feet, holding onto lewis`s waist to stay up, coming out of a clinch in the cornerat the end unable to punch back or raise his hands to defend himself. DURING the round Lewis was punching, right up to and on te bell, vitali was standing with a glazed over "where am i" kind of look! But hey, your more interested in what happened after the round ended! What about the slow weaving path taken by vitali to his corner after the bell then! You call the doctor stupid for saving the guys eye!
When did Lewis "promise" a rematch, he didnt! That came out of vitali`s bad english translation of lewis`s words of, "no problem" as vitali punched his arm screaming rematch in german then eventually english. He didnt even know where he was or what language Lewis speaks, what does that tell u about his condition.

[fists of fury]

It's difficult to say how this would have ended.
Lewis claims he was going for the knockout - which I can believe - and by the 6th Vitali was still there fighting, even after taking a monster uppercut in the 6th.

Who would have won depends on who had the superior conditioning in the fight after that point. I don't think this fight would have lasted the distance - someone would have gone down and stayed down before too long.

I just can't figure out who it would have been. Incidentally, I voted for option #4. You have to give Klitschko credit for giving Lewis a good, hard fight.

[DamonD]

At this point in time, sadly I've become bored of it.
It used to be a favourite but there's been so many wars about it here it's totally turned me off to it...I just can't enjoy it any more.

[Sonny's jab]

Why do people think this fight was controversial ?

Vitali's cuts were very bad by the standards employed by modern boxing referees. Therefore the stoppage was legit, to be expected, nothing out of the ordinary.

This was 2003, not 1920.
In the 21st century fights tend to get stopped when one of the guys has facial injuries like he got chewed up by a Doberman.
I dont see the controversy.

Lennox Lewis should have retired a long time earlier, so I dont understand the resentment of him retiring. He may not have giving the rematch he promised but he RETIRED and VACATED the championship, giving every other fighter a chance to be champion. I'm no big fan of Lennox Lewis but I respect his human right to quit boxing. In fact I respect him more for actually genuinely retiring, it wasn't an empty statement.

Vitali's biggest supporters need to come to terms with the fact that he couldn't beat a rusty overweight and rapidly aging champion on that night. He lost fair and square.
I think Lewis knew that a 2nd win over Vitali would NOT have added much value to his legacy and reputation. No one thought that much of Vitali before he fought Lewis and no one would have thought much of him if Lewis beat him twice.
Lewis was in a lose-lose situation, only Vitali had the real status to gain from a rematch, losing the first one had done him more good that winning had done for Lewis !
Lewis's retirement was a wise move, esp. when you consider the fact that he was clearly sliding and probably wouldn't be more than 50-50 to win the rematch.

Lewis quit while he was still on top and not many boxers do. Smart move, Lennox.

[cuchulain]

I'm a fan of both fighters.

Lennox won and that's all that matters in THAT fight.

But he did retire Lennox who, IMO, would PROBABLY have lost the rematch. He was at the very end of his prime and he probably felt he could not repeat the win, so why risk his legacy, for any money.

That said, prime Lewis beats prime Vitali. Lewis is a top five alltime and Vitali isn't.

[LeedsLad]

Both guys looked fucked, so its hard to predict how the fight would have gone. If the fight had continued though, Vitali would have been seriously hindered by those cuts so he would have probably been KO'd.

But it will always say Lennox TKO6 Vitali, regardless.

[McGrain]

I've never really understood the legs on this one.

Two guys had a fight. One punched the other in the face until he couldn't continue, securing a victory.

Like most other boxing matches then.

[RonnieHornschuh]

lewis was dead tired after the 6th, vitali didn't realise it because he was pumped with adrenalin. vitali was motivated like never before, not sure that can be said about lennox. impossible to guess how the fight would have ended, but that's a rhetorical question since vitali's injurie was too bad to continue.
interesting how some people bring that discussion again after watching PARTS oft the fight on youtube and not knowing half of the facts. for example that vitali's first cut was caused by the stitch of lennox' inside glove. if you're really interested in a fight, download it and watch it fullscreen.

[Holmes' Jab]

Lewis would have won anyway (either by KO or TKO) within the next couple of rounds, has the doc not stepped in. Vitali was badly shaken up. :yep

[PIRA]

lewis was dead tired after the 6th, vitali didn't realise it because he was pumped with adrenalin. vitali was motivated like never before, not sure that can be said about lennox. impossible to guess how the fight would have ended, but that's a rhetorical question since vitali's injurie was too bad to continue.
interesting how some people bring that discussion again after watching PARTS oft the fight on youtube and not knowing half of the facts. for example that vitali's first cut was caused by the stitch of lennox' inside glove. if you're really interested in a fight, download it and watch it fullscreen.


For four cuts to open nullifies your allegation the inside doing all the damage - that eye, nose and mouth on the left side got hit and cut repeatedly. That's a difference in ability - not a difference in equipment.

BTW both boxers gloves are inspected numerous times. The glove's stitch must have grown a protrusion that even Vitali never saw or complained about.

[PIRA]

Lewis would have won anyway (either by KO or TKO) within the next couple of rounds, has the doc not stepped in. Vitali was badly shaken up. :yep

Yep - another two by my reckoning. That cut would have leaking meat by that time - Lewis would have been damm knackered but known for sure they were his last two rounds. And that he had just ended VK's career. Let that go two more rounds and he would never be the same again.

[KO byBRIGGS]

Vitali showed great heart and yes had Lennox hurt but in hurting Lennox he left himself open for punishing shots that may not have hurt his chin but the blood and cuts were very bad to say the least. Even if the fight had gone on eventually the cuts would have gotten even worse and in that possibility there could have been Vitali leaving on a stretcher it is the doctors job to prevent injury and he was un-questionably at risk of severe injury when the fight stopped. I understand the frustration of not seeing the re-match in what would have obviously been a great fight again but boxers do not have to subject themselves to these wars. We have to respect these guys for the times they do get into that ring and not crusify them for the times they dont. Lennox Lewis went out on top something most guys never do and I applaude him for that. Too many times you have to see guys get hurt and go out on losses but he avoided that. Lewis was the greatest of his era imo and gets my respect.

[H .]

Vitali showed great heart and yes had Lennox hurt but in hurting Lennox he left himself open for punishing shots that may not have hurt his chin but the blood and cuts were very bad to say the least. Even if the fight had gone on eventually the cuts would have gotten even worse and in that possibility there could have been Vitali leaving on a stretcher it is the doctors job to prevent injury and he was un-questionably at risk of severe injury when the fight stopped. I understand the frustration of not seeing the re-match in what would have obviously been a great fight again but boxers do not have to subject themselves to these wars. We have to respect these guys for the times they do get into that ring and not crusify them for the times they dont. Lennox Lewis went out on top something most guys never do and I applaude him for that. Too many times you have to see guys get hurt and go out on losses but he avoided that. Lewis was the greatest of his era imo and gets my respect.

Well said, all of that.

[Mr "T"]

Vitali showed great heart and yes had Lennox hurt but in hurting Lennox he left himself open for punishing shots that may not have hurt his chin but the blood and cuts were very bad to say the least. Even if the fight had gone on eventually the cuts would have gotten even worse and in that possibility there could have been Vitali leaving on a stretcher it is the doctors job to prevent injury and he was un-questionably at risk of severe injury when the fight stopped. I understand the frustration of not seeing the re-match in what would have obviously been a great fight again but boxers do not have to subject themselves to these wars. We have to respect these guys for the times they do get into that ring and not crusify them for the times they dont. Lennox Lewis went out on top something most guys never do and I applaude him for that. Too many times you have to see guys get hurt and go out on losses but he avoided that. Lewis was the greatest of his era imo and gets my respect.
Good sound post, KO. Both men deserve respect--it was a hellava' fight and the better man won (with an asterisk).
It was great seeing two super-heavyweights go toe to toe.
Lennox was great--Top 3 ATG-- and Vitali was summarily underrated.
Meanwhile, can we all just move on?:beat

[Drexl]

Well, I totally changed my mind about the overrated thing. LL IS vastly overrated here. What a joke. LL was completely getting owned in that fight.

And you are a walking example of him being UNDERrated.

The only round that Vitali CLEARLY won was the 2nd.

Owned? This must be some bizarre new meaning of the word "owned" that I have not seen before. :roll:

[barneyrub]

lewis was dead tired after the 6th, vitali didn't realise it because he was pumped with adrenalin. vitali was motivated like never before, not sure that can be said about lennox. impossible to guess how the fight would have ended, but that's a rhetorical question since vitali's injurie was too bad to continue.
interesting how some people bring that discussion again after watching PARTS oft the fight on youtube and not knowing half of the facts. for example that vitali's first cut was caused by the stitch of lennox' inside glove. if you're really interested in a fight, download it and watch it fullscreen.you made that up, because no video angle shows that it was the laces. It was clearly the knuckle part of the glove.

[barneyrub]

its interesting how the same people who complain about lewis beating what they describe to be fighters on the decline like Holyfield and Tyson dont give lewis credit for beating a prime 31 year old fighter who would go on to be regarded as THE champion at a time when lewis himself was declining at 37 years and 9 months old after having over a year out the ring and at his heaviest weight.

[PATSYS]

All I can say is that I saw sunshine on Vitali's face when the fight was waived by the ref. It was only split second as Vitali tried his best to contain his real feelings.

All those NO, NO, NO bull crap in the ring were hypocrisy at its best.:twisted:

[Fighting Weight]

All I can say is that I saw sunshine on Vitali's face when the fight was waived by the ref. It was only split second as Vitali tried his best to contain his real feelings.

All those NO, NO, NO bull crap in the ring were hypocrisy at its best.:twisted:

Absolutely 100% correct. He was like the kid in the playground passively getting the shit beaten out of him, and when the fight gets broken up starts getting brave and throwing punches again cos he knows the other guy ain't hitting back no more.

VITLAY = big girls blouse.

[PATSYS]

Absolutely 100% correct. He was like the kid in the playground passively getting the shit beaten out of him, and when the fight gets broken up starts getting brave and throwing punches again cos he knows the other guy ain't hitting back no more.

VITLAY = big girls blouse.

You damn right. I know how he felt, because when I was a kid, I got brave too against bigger guys when I know the teacher is there to break up the fight immediately :lol:

[Fighting Weight]

You damn right. I know how he felt, because when I was a kid, I got brave too against bigger guys when I know the teacher is there to break up the fight immediately :lol:

Yep it's happened to all of us at some point or other I suspect. Shame for VITLAY it happened in front of the whole world :rofl

[barneyrub]

I guess you disagree with anyone with functional eyeballs and brain, as well as all the judges. That's fine. Lewis was losing, decisively so, and he was getting really tired on top of that.It was vitali who was out on his feet at the end of rd 6, getting hit , trying to hold himself up by holding onto lewis`s waist and not defending or throwing back. The referee was looking very closely at Vitali after he staggered across the ring holding onto lewis`s waist into the corner where he got hit with more uppercuts as the bell rang, he had a look on his face as if he was looking around to see where he was and asking what day is it.

[Drexl]

I guess you disagree with anyone with functional eyeballs and brain, as well as all the judges. That's fine. Lewis was losing, decisively so, and he was getting really tired on top of that.

No, I agree with the judges. But just because someone won a round does not mean they "owned" the other guy.

Losing decisively? One round scored the other way (as Harold Lederman scored it) and it was a draw on the cards. Hardly decisive.

Bottom line, Lewis stood up to all Vitali could throw at him. Vitali couldn't withstand all that Lewis threw at him. result - Lennox TKO Vitali.

The scorecards are only relevant if it goes to the cards, and even then the winner is who won the majority of the 12 rounds, not the first 6. We have all seen fighters hopelessly behind after 6 and still win, and Lennox wasn't even that far behind. He also won the final round on all 3 cards, pointing to him being in the ascendancy.

[PATSYS]

Shame for VITLAY it happened in front of the whole world :rofl

...And at an advanced age of 32 :lol: :patsch

[PATSYS]

Bullshit. A lucky cut has nothing to do with being able to withstand anything. Lewis got lucky. End of story. Same with a fighter breaking his hand/wrist during a fight or dislocating a shoulder.

So for you, Rafa Marquez did not really win against Vasquez (1st fight)?

[LeedsLad]

I didn't watch it. Unless the "winning" fighter was ahead on the scorecard, I don't believe in considering them winners for non-knockdown related TKO decisions for things like broken bones/cuts. I don't consider the LL/VK fight a win for either guy, and LL should have immediately offered a rematch, instead he cowardly walked away. LL has already answered the question for you what would have happened had the fight continued.

Lewis TKO6 Klitschko... guess what, nobody gives a shit whether you consider it or not, Lewis won:yep

[Drexl]

Bullshit. A lucky cut has nothing to do with being able to withstand anything. Lewis got lucky. End of story. Same with a fighter breaking his hand/wrist during a fight or dislocating a shoulder.

Lucky cut?

It has been proven conclusively several times that the cut was caused by a punch. Then several rounds of punches to the same spot made it worse until the fight was stopped. How the fuck is that lucky???

If the cut spontaneously appeared before Lennox threw a punch in the first round, THAT would be lucky. But Vitali's body couldn't take the heat therefore he lost by a 100% legit stoppage.

[Drexl]

I didn't watch it. Unless the "winning" fighter was ahead on the scorecard, I don't believe in considering them winners for non-knockdown related TKO decisions for things like broken bones/cuts.

:lol:

Sore loser.

Having weak skin is a physical deficiency as much as having a bad chin, slow reflexes, bad balance or slow hands.

So tell me, if a fighter throws a body shot that breaks his opponents ribs and ref stops it because the other guy is in agony while covering up on the ropes WHILE STILL STANDING, is that not a legit victory in your little world?

[Drexl]

I don't care what a bunch of jingoists/bigots/racists think, either.

Racists? WTF?? :patsch

:lol:

[Jazzo]

Lewis TKO 6.

[Jazzo]

Racists? WTF?? :patsch

:lol:

:lol:

[Jazzo]

Klitschko fans use the same "logic" as the Creationists :deal

[barneyrub]

Bullshit. A lucky cut has nothing to do with being able to withstand anything. Lewis got lucky. End of story. Same with a fighter breaking his hand/wrist during a fight or dislocating a shoulder.Where was the lucky cut? Because there was a cut under the eyebrow after rd 2, a cut on the eyelid and another one under the eye after rd5 and after rd 6 vitali`s lips were hanging off.

[barneyrub]

I didn't watch it. Unless the "winning" fighter was ahead on the scorecard, I don't believe in considering them winners for non-knockdown related TKO decisions for things like broken bones/cuts. I don't consider the LL/VK fight a win for either guy, and LL should have immediately offered a rematch, instead he cowardly walked away. LL has already answered the question for you what would have happened had the fight continued.You remind me of this guy,
"It is but a fleshwound" lol.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Drexl]

Lewis has already answered the question for you, concerning what would have happened had the fight continued. That's why he retired with his tail between his legs.

No, Lewis answered by stopping Vitali.

Face it, Vitali had the worst version of Lennox ever to step in the ring right there in front of him for the taking.... and he failed.

Lennox retired because he was a multi-millionaire in his late 30's who had achieved all of his career goals before Vitali's name was even mentioned as a possible opponent.

[barneyrub]

Lewis has already answered the question for you, concerning what would have happened had the fight continued. That's why he retired with his tail between his legs.

Yeah he really ran away, thats why he got in the ring with vitali in Germany for a little play sparring recently!

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Vitali knows whats what, he says Lewis is the biggest name in boxing history,

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[barneyrub]

You missed the last part of that, uhh, "quote". Good old British Bs/spin doctoring. He finishes the sentence with "except me".Thats his delusion.

[Jimbo]

Absolutely 100% correct. He was like the kid in the playground passively getting the shit beaten out of him, and when the fight gets broken up starts getting brave and throwing punches again cos he knows the other guy ain't hitting back no more.

VITLAY = big girls blouse.

It was just a better version of Seldon's acting in the Tyson fight.

[Steve Fox]

It was Vitaly's style of fighting that cost him so dearly. He always leans his head back to keep out of range and in doing so it meant that he exposed the soft flesh between the eyeball and the brow. Had he not been leaning back, he would have had to take more severe blows from Lewis - maybe getting KO'd in the process. Thet doesn't explain all the other cuts though.

[Vanboxingfan]

Well, I totally changed my mind about the overrated thing. LL IS vastly overrated here. What a joke. LL was completely getting owned in that fight.

You might want to actually watch the fight and look at the damage Vitali sustained if you think that. The scorecards had Vitali ahead, yes, but the first round was a feeling out round, no meaningful shots were exchanged but Vitali won it. At the end of the fight, Lewis won the 6th round on all cards and the fight was scored 58-56 by all 3 judges. While it seems like two rounds, it's actually a one round swing. Meaning if Lewis had won the first round, instead of lost it, it would have been tied 57-57. That's hardly getting owned by ANY MEASURE.

Regardless, the scorecard was meaningless because Vitali sustained numerous cuts, not one or two, but several. The cut above the eye was impairing his vision and he was at risk of loosing his eye. He had a cut below the same eye, and his lip was cut open to the point that he was swallowing his own blood. No luck punch scenario explains this. And in the 6th Lewis landed an uppercut that stunned me and I was only watching the fight. So not only was Lewis not getting owned, he CLEARLY won that fight. What's unfortunate is I gave V.K. a lot of credit for his brave effort, which has been significantly diminished by the whining of his fans. And the stupidest part is saying Lewis was owned in that fight, kills whatever credibility you have because everyone knows you're not capable of being objective so your posts are basically meaningless.

[McGrain]

Lewis has already answered the question for you, concerning what would have happened had the fight continued. That's why he retired with his tail between his legs.


He was also pretty old. And not as good as he used to be. And he won.

[PATSYS]

I didn't watch it. Unless the "winning" fighter was ahead on the scorecard, I don't believe in considering them winners for non-knockdown related TKO decisions for things like broken bones/cuts. I don't consider the LL/VK fight a win for either guy, and LL should have immediately offered a rematch, instead he cowardly walked away. LL has already answered the question for you what would have happened had the fight continued.

Then fucking watch it and get a clue.

[Dekkers]

I see a lucky cut, a total ass beating on Lewis who looks like he's asmatic, and a former champion cutting and running, chased out of boxing without a rematch, like a coward.
Lewis had a great career, his fight with Vitali is simply the end of it, a guy who did as much as Lewis has the right to hang up his gloves, after beating Vitali once and not be called a coward.

oT7-KU3sjkM

-OQrgv5MemE

uHzFd7MOuYU

[carras]

Lewis tko 6

[Drexl]

I have given up on trying to respond to the points people make because my lame arguments have been destroyed by facts, instead I think I'll just edit people's quotes and throw insults around and hope nobody will notice.


We noticed.

[Vanboxingfan]

I didn't watch it. Unless the "winning" fighter was ahead on the scorecard, I don't believe in considering them winners for non-knockdown related TKO decisions for things like broken bones/cuts. I don't consider the LL/VK fight a win for either guy, and LL should have immediately offered a rematch, instead he cowardly walked away. LL has already answered the question for you what would have happened had the fight continued.

You really need to find a different sport to watch cause you certainly don't know or understand boxing.

[H .]

I'm surprised Ruskull, Widdow, and Heavyrighthand don't post much here.

[jbrunner3]

Lewis was more out of gas than Vitali. They were both landing hard shots. I think Lennox would've folded from one in about the 9th.

[Zakman]

I'm surprised Ruskull, Widdow, and Heavyrighthand don't post much here.

Ya just HAD to start some shit today, huh??:lol:

Here goes another ten pages.........:yep

[H .]

Ya just HAD to start some shit today, huh??:lol:

Here goes another ten pages.........:yep

:lol:
I was getting bored. Here's everyone's favorite topic.
:D

[H .]

bump :lol:

[Asterion]

In the end, you have to give both men credit for that fight.

[rydersonthestorm]

Lewis was battering vitali at the end he hit him with a number of huge uppercuts and would have finished him if the fight wasn't stopped becuase of the cut.

[codeman99998]

I give both men credit blah blah.

Here is an option that wasn't on there that should have been.

If the fight continued, the referee should have been fired.

Seriously, world title fight or not, I have never seen a cut that bad before. I can't imagine what would have had to have happened for that fight to be stopped if they had let it continue.

If Vitali had never been cut, I think he would have won by knockout. But the real question is, "should the fight have been stopped?" And the answer is absolutely yes. With that in mind, Lewis TKOd Vitali on cuts. Sometimes, fights are decided by cuts. Is it a shame that this fight was? Yes. Does that mean the fight should have gone on? No.

[H .]

I give both men credit blah blah.

Here is an option that wasn't on there that should have been.

If the fight continued, the referee should have been fired.

Seriously, world title fight or not, I have never seen a cut that bad before. I can't imagine what would have had to have happened for that fight to be stopped if they had let it continue.

If Vitali had never been cut, I think he would have won by knockout. But the real question is, "should the fight have been stopped?" And the answer is absolutely yes. With that in mind, Lewis TKOd Vitali on cuts. Sometimes, fights are decided by cuts. Is it a shame that this fight was? Yes. Does that mean the fight should have gone on? No.

Or you could give them both credit. :conf

[El Bombasto]

absolutely no doubt vitali would've gottem ko'd

[H .]

The question was asked if Vitali would have beaten Lewis, ....well, this poll is a pretty good indication of what folks think. :deal

[H .]

bump! ...you asked for it

[H .]

any talks of a rematch yet. i mean, with holy and tyson coming back again, anythings possible

[Punisher33]

I doubt it, one man would have a hard time getting to the gym, the other being Vitali couldnt even make it out of training camp. I perdict we wont see either man in the ring ever again, if we do it will be a losing effort for either fighter.

[Fighting Weight]

A rematch isn't needed anyway, the worst version of Lewis beat a prime VITLAY which tells you all you need to know - and lets not forget about Lewis's record in rematches :shock:

Lewis retired because he didn't need it any more, simple as that. Scared of a bum like VITLAY? Some people need to get a grip, VITLAY had his chance and lost.

[barneyrub]

Lennox was on his last legs. Did u see him collapse on to his stool? Manny Steward had to give him mouth-to-mouth. Vitail took Lewis' best shots and refused to quit. Vitali was just getting his second wind and no doubt Vitali would have knocked out Lewis in the 7th if not for that stupid doctor who stopped the fight due to that cat scratch on Vit. Then Lennox, who promised Vitali a rematch, bitched out and decided instead to stink up the HBO broadcast booth instead of the ring w/his arrogance.

:rofl :rofl :roflDURING the actual 6th round it was Vitali that was out on his feet and at the end unable to lift his arms to throw or defend himself as he was hit by uppercuts at the bell, he had just staggered across the ring to that corner only staying up by holding onto Lewis`s waist while falling forward pushing Lewis with his shoulder as he [Vitali] tried to regain his balance.
The sitting arrangement between rounds is irrelevant.
There were 2 cuts above the eye, one below and the mouth was ripped open.
Lewis didnt promise anything, he never said "I promise a rematch" he talked about considering it and when Vitali got in his face all drunkenly about it and hit him on his arm while screaming "rematch" Lewis replied merely with "no problem!" that is not a promise by any definition other than by someone that speaks pigeon english :tong If he fought again he would of only fought Vitali, he didnt go off and fight someone else, he was old and the only reason he was still active was because he was contracted to give Tyson the rematch that Tyson requested, that was now never going to happen so he retired to get married which he did soon after and which is something he didnt want to do while still boxing, Lewis had been champ variously since 1992, this fight was 2003, Lewis was almost 38, Vitali was 31.

[Fighting Weight]

DURING the actual 6th round it was Vitali that was out on his feet and at the end unable to lift his arms to throw or defend himself as he was hit by uppercuts at the bell, he had just staggered across the ring to that corner only staying up by holding onto Lewis`s waist while falling forward pushing Lewis with his shoulder as he [Vitali] tried to regain his balance.
The sitting arrangement between rounds is irrelevant.
There were 2 cuts above the eye, one below and the mouth was ripped open.
Lewis didnt promise anything, he never said "I promise a rematch" he talked about considering it and when Vitali got in his face all drunkenly about it and hit him on his arm while screaming "rematch" Lewis replied merely with "no problem!" that is not a promise by any definition other than by someone that speaks pigeon english :tong

Yep, Lewis was forced into a corner by VITLAYS bitch antics after the fight. It was laughable and just showed VITLAY up to be the cunt that he is, he meekly surrendered V Byrd and he did the same against Lewis - until the fight was over, then he started acting tough. Pathetic. He got owned and he knows it.

[barneyrub]

They have been in the ring together since that fight,

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Shamrock]

Lennox was on his last legs. Did u see him collapse on to his stool? Manny Steward had to give him mouth-to-mouth. Vitail took Lewis' best shots and refused to quit. Vitali was just getting his second wind and no doubt Vitali would have knocked out Lewis in the 7th if not for that stupid doctor who stopped the fight due to that cat scratch on Vit. Then Lennox, who promised Vitali a rematch, bitched out and decided instead to stink up the HBO broadcast booth instead of the ring w/his arrogance.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

Funny enough, this is the way it was! The crowd in attendance claimed Vitali the 'People's Champ'!! They thought he was robbed after beating Lewis for six rounds. :thumbsup

[Shamrock]

The question was asked if Vitali would have beaten Lewis, ....well, this poll is a pretty good indication of what folks think. :deal

A pro british forum? yeah, sure does! :patsch

[Punisher33]

The scorecards at the end were all in favor of Vitali 4 rounds to 2, there was still 6 more rounds to go, and Vitali's vision was getting worse. I like neither fighter, but Vitali was in worse shape physically going into the 7th round, he wouldve had to knock Lewis out in the next 2 rounds, or his eye would of been completely closed, because Lewis would of been targeting that eye for the rest of the fight.

[H .]

A pro british forum? yeah, sure does! :patsch

:conf

[KobeIsGod]

DURING the actual 6th round it was Vitali that was out on his feet and at the end unable to lift his arms to throw or defend himself as he was hit by uppercuts at the bell, he had just staggered across the ring to that corner only staying up by holding onto Lewis`s waist while falling forward pushing Lewis with his shoulder as he [Vitali] tried to regain his balance.
The sitting arrangement between rounds is irrelevant.
There were 2 cuts above the eye, one below and the mouth was ripped open.
Lewis didnt promise anything, he never said "I promise a rematch" he talked about considering it and when Vitali got in his face all drunkenly about it and hit him on his arm while screaming "rematch" Lewis replied merely with "no problem!" that is not a promise by any definition other than by someone that speaks pigeon english :tong If he fought again he would of only fought Vitali, he didnt go off and fight someone else, he was old and the only reason he was still active was because he was contracted to give Tyson the rematch that Tyson requested, that was now never going to happen so he retired to get married which he did soon after and which is something he didnt want to do while still boxing, Lewis had been champ variously since 1992, this fight was 2003, Lewis was almost 38, Vitali was 31.

this thread again :nut Pigeon english? wtf :lol:

i dont understand why u needed to respond several times to this same post. Obviously, u couldn't pick up my sarcasm and notice the dude in my avatar. here is what i think about this fight:

lennox wasn't mentally ready for this fight but vitali was supercharged. it showed early. when lennox got hammered the first 2 rounds, he woke up and let loose.

had the fight continued, lennox would have won a UD or it just would have been stopped on cuts in a later round. i dont think vitali would have gone down at all. lewis was really lucky though. i still think had that cut in the 3rd not happened, vitali would have won a UD. i would have picked vitali to win a UD in a rematch too. lennox knew it was time to go so he did the right thing. go out on top

[Bodysnatcher]

A pro british forum? yeah, sure does! :patsch

Yeah, it's all about those evil Brits and their colonial arrogance.

Yawn.

[KobeIsGod]

Lennox was on his last legs. Did u see him collapse on to his stool? Manny Steward had to give him mouth-to-mouth. Vitail took Lewis' best shots and refused to quit. Vitali was just getting his second wind and no doubt Vitali would have knocked out Lewis in the 7th if not for that stupid doctor who stopped the fight due to that cat scratch on Vit. Then Lennox, who promised Vitali a rematch, bitched out and decided instead to stink up the HBO broadcast booth instead of the ring w/his arrogance.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

this baby is off the charts :yep

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Vanboxingfan]

Funny enough, this is the way it was! The crowd in attendance claimed Vitali the 'People's Champ'!! They thought he was robbed after beating Lewis for six rounds. :thumbsup

That's called a moral victory. Too bad it's basically meaningless. The Jamacian bobsled team got it's share of cheers and support too. :yep

[KobeIsGod]

That's called a moral victory. Too bad it's basically meaningless. The Jamacian bobsled team got it's share of cheers and support too. :yep

Lewis won the fight, Vitali won the event :D

[9Ball]

I think that Vitali was definately looking the stronger of the two when it was stopped but I think Lennox would have caught up with him eventually.
:cool:

[Farmboxer]

Such a sick provincial attitude! Lewis was ready to go, Vitali was just getting warmed up to knock Lewis out cold in the 7th round, even Max Kellerman, a known Klitschko hater said that Lewis was done for, he was sitting right behind Lewis' corner. Lewis refused to fight a rematch, and for good reason.

[MancMexican]

Missed out the most important option

'Out of prime Lewis tore prime Klitchko's face apart and got a tko. End of pointless debate.'

[Farmboxer]

Lewis is still running from Vitali. Vitali is still trying to get him into the ring. Vitali does not run out of gas, but Lewis did and has before. Lewis was done for, but can't make sense against provincial attitutes.

[cuchulain]

As a Vitali fan, I have to be embarrassed by some of the more deluded posts on this thread..

IMO, very hypothetically, if the cut could have been cleaned up with star trek technology to the point that it was not a factor, Vitali would have had a better chance of winning the fight than Lennox. Both men were very tired but Lennox was more tired.

That said, the cut was there. It was caused by a punch. Cuts are a part of boxing. Lennox stopped Vitali in the sixth. The stoppage was good.

Vitali was in his prime. Lennox had begun his slide.

A prime Lennox v prime Vitali results in a Lennox win 8 times out of 10.

Lennox was a top 5 alltime great heavywt. Vitali wasn't quite top 10.

[Carlos Primera]

absolutely no doubt lennox would have been KO'ed in the 7th.

[MancMexican]

absolutely no doubt lennox would have been KO'ed in the 7th.

good thing lewis stopped vitali in the 6th then

[4ybak]

good thing lewis stopped vitali in the 6th then
:nono

..doc did!

[fidds]

Like flogging a dead horse this thread aint it :patsch

Lewis tko 6 vitali klitschko :good

[Tony Harrison]

Missed out the most important option

'Out of prime Lewis tore prime Klitchko's face apart and got a tko. End of pointless debate.'

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Does anyone actually believe Klitschko would have half as much success against a primed, fully focused Lennox Lewis.

Lewis was supposed to be fighting Kirk Johnson that night if I recall. At that stage in his career he wasn't the athlete he used to be.

I like Vitali but some of the trash he and his supporters talk about Lewis is disrespectful and frankly ludicrous. Big upright robotic guys like Klitschko didn't fair too well against Lewis in the past.

[Drexl]

:nono

..doc did!

I don't remember the doctor throwing any punches. :huh


By your logic, no fighter has ever stopped another fighter in the history of the sport - either the referee or the doctor stopped it. :roll:

[Phanekim]

I remember dragging my more expert boxing roomate to the fight. I told him this would be a good fight. He told me it wasn't. Boy was he wrong.

I must admit, I have wondered the same question as the OP over the years. Quite frankly, I couldn't say, its so up in the air...both were pretty much gassed. It was probably the best heavyweight fight on this decade.

[Shamrock]

I think that Vitali was definately looking the stronger of the two when it was stopped but I think Lennox would have caught up with him eventually.
:cool:

With that cut? maybe! Or Vit may have flattened him.

No way does Lennox make top ten in history, 11 - 12 maybe!

[Vanboxingfan]

With that cut? maybe! Or Vit may have flattened him.

No way does Lennox make top ten in history, 11 - 12 maybe!

So did Vitali loose to an ATG fighter or just to an over the hill fighter who was at best 11-12th? How bad was Vitali? Obviously the better Lewis was as a fighter, the more impressive Vit's near win was.

[Shamrock]

So did Vitali loose to an ATG fighter or just to an over the hill fighter who was at best 11-12th? How bad was Vitali? Obviously the better Lewis was as a fighter, the more impressive Vit's near win was.

I didn't think much of Vitali in rating with ATGs, just better than Lewis in that fight. I believe Wlad will rate a lot better when hes done than both Vit and Lennox.

[Vanboxingfan]

I didn't think much of Vitali in rating with ATGs, just better than Lewis in that fight. I believe Wlad will rate a lot better when hes done than both Vit and Lennox.

Not sure how he could be better in that fight when he lost. Strange conclussion as far as I'm concerned.

As for Wlad, he's lost and been knocked down too many times to rank ahead of Lewis as far as I'm concerned, but he could get close if he shows an impressive string of victories.

[Drexl]

I think that Vitali was definately looking the stronger of the two when it was stopped

Lennox won the final round on all 3 cards.

[Shamrock]

Not sure how he could be better in that fight when he lost. Strange conclussion as far as I'm concerned.

As for Wlad, he's lost and been knocked down too many times to rank ahead of Lewis as far as I'm concerned, but he could get close if he shows an impressive string of victories.

Better had the lucky cut not occurred! A ko is planned, a cut happens by chance. (Lennox declined a rematch).

Lennox was WBC champ when he got flattened twice, Wlad's knockdowns against Peter were illegal, and Wlad showed where it was at in the rematch. Also made Byrd look like a schoolboy.......! Didn't Lennox avoid Byrd?

[Punisher33]

Better had the lucky cut not occurred! A ko is planned, a cut happens by chance. (Lennox declined a rematch).

Lennox was WBC champ when he got flattened twice, Wlad's knockdowns against Peter were illegal, and Wlad showed where it was at in the rematch. Also made Byrd look like a schoolboy.......! Didn't Lennox avoid Byrd? Even a Peter hater could see Wlad was knocked down at least once fairly, I myself thought 2 of the 3 knockdowns were fair. Wlad clinched over 90 times in that fight, and wouldnt let go of Peter when he was hurt in that match, like it or not Peter was the last oppenent to not only hurt Wlad in a match, but make it competitive as well.

[Fighting Weight]

Also made Byrd look like a schoolboy

I think that was a case of wishful thinking on your part :yep

[Shamrock]

Even a Peter hater could see Wlad was knocked down at least once fairly, I myself thought 2 of the 3 knockdowns were fair. Wlad clinched over 90 times in that fight, and wouldnt let go of Peter when he was hurt in that match, like it or not Peter was the last oppenent to not only hurt Wlad in a match, but make it competitive as well.

:lol: :lol: :lol: was the last fight competitive then for fucks sake? Proves the point I'm thinking.

The Lewis fight really produced a heap of Klit haters, lets consider that Lennox has been hurt a few times as well!

[Shamrock]

I think that was a case of wishful thinking on your part :yep

Did Byrd not look like a schoolboy then?? :huh

[Punisher33]

:lol: :lol: :lol: was the last fight competitive then for fucks sake? Proves the point I'm thinking.

The Lewis fight really produced a heap of Klit haters, lets consider that Lennox has been hurt a few times as well! Wlad didnt fight Peter in his last match, he fought a one eyed Lamon Brewster. There was never a second match between Peter and Wlad, a match I would love to see again.

[Shamrock]

Wlad didnt fight Peter in his last match, he fought a one eyed Lamon Brewster. There was never a second match between Peter and Wlad, a match I would love to see again.

You are right, it was Brewster I was talking about. He easily dispatched Brewster. I too would like to see Wlad beat down on Peter decisively. I don't think Peter would get within range in a rematch.

[Punisher33]

You are right, it was Brewster I was talking about. He easily dispatched Brewster. I too would like to see Wlad beat down on Peter decisively. I don't think Peter wouldn't get within range in a rematch. Thats your opinion, I repsect that. I still think its only a matter of time before Wlads glass chin gets shattered again for al too see, I just dont see it happening against a caution first fighter like Iggy, I just hope it's at least competitive for the first 6 or 7 rounds, until Wlad lets the big right hand go and Iggy lays motionless in the center of the ring.

[Shamrock]

Thats your opinion, I repsect that. I still think its only a matter of time before Wlads glass chin gets shattered again for al too see, I just dont see it happening against a caution first fighter like Iggy, I just hope it's at least competitive for the first 6 or 7 rounds, until Wlad lets the big right hand go and Iggy lays motionless in the center of the ring.

Remember Lennox had a 'glass' chin as well, and Steward saw him out. I think Wlad is perfecting Stewards methods better than Lennox did, and Wlad is the stronger puncher. Time will tell.

[Punisher33]

Remember Lennox had a 'glass' chin as well, and Steward saw him out. I think Wlad is perfecting Stewards methods better than Lennox did, and Wlad is the stronger puncher. Time will tell. True, but Lewis had a better uppercut on the inside and didnt get tired as easy as Wlad. I understand Lewis was knocked out twice by 2nd tier fighters, other than that he has never been down, Wlad on the other hand has been knocked down 10 or 11 times, depending on if you want to count the standing 8 he got when he fought Brewster the first time, and TKO'd 3 times, 1 of which was under Manny's tutelage. He will self destruct when under pressure, I just dont too many Heavyweights that can pressure Wlad effectively.:think

[Shamrock]

True, but Lewis had a better uppercut on the inside and didnt get tired as easy as Wlad. I understand Lewis was knocked out twice by 2nd tier fighters, other than that he has never been down, Wlad on the other hand has been knocked down 10 or 11 times, depending on if you want to count the standing 8 he got when he fought Brewster the first time, and TKO'd 3 times, 1 of which was under Manny's tutelage. He will self destruct when under pressure, I just dont too many Heavyweights that can pressure Wlad effectively.:think

Wlad got tired under that phantom drug when in with Brewster, his recent bouts don't produce that same 'tired' effect. I would still like to see him use his feet a bit more so he can manage pressure fighters, but I'm sure he is still a developing fighter. We havn't seen the best from him yet, that I feel sure.

Lewis was fully fledged developed when he was flattened, and flattened he was! Wlad was never really flattened in the same degree. Lewis took two weeks to wake up :lol: :lol: :lol: :good

[Lance_Uppercut]

Once that cut opened, Vitali's only chance was a KO in the very next round. We can't pretend the cuts weren't there. They would have only gotten worse.

[RUSKULL]

Wlad didnt fight Peter in his last match, he fought a one eyed Lamon Brewster. There was never a second match between Peter and Wlad, a match I would love to see again.

"Scuse me bro, Lamon Brewster had two fully functioning eyes before, during & after the second fight with Wladimir. He said so himself. "The eye was not a factor at all" if I remember correctly.

[Relentless]

"Scuse me bro, Lamon Brewster had two fully functioning eyes before, during & after the second fight with Wladimir. He said so himself. "The eye was not a factor at all" if I remember correctly.

wlad said he was in the best shape of his life before the purrity fight............

[Shamrock]

Once that cut opened, Vitali's only chance was a KO in the very next round. We can't pretend the cuts weren't there. They would have only gotten worse.

Shut to fuck up Lance :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Lance_Uppercut]

Shut to fuck up Lance :lol: :lol: :lol:

Get those balls away from your eyes and try using common sense for once.:roll:

[Punisher33]

"Scuse me bro, Lamon Brewster had two fully functioning eyes before, during & after the second fight with Wladimir. He said so himself. "The eye was not a factor at all" if I remember correctly. He did, but he also said a little later, "That I'm not going make excuses like Wlad did when I beat him, he was the better man tonite, I just hope we can do it again since we each have a win each other now", so if you want to read between the lines you can, but I think most people would say Brewster just wasnt himself that night, and chose to use the caution first approach instead of his usual brawling style.

[Vanboxingfan]

True, but Lewis had a better uppercut on the inside and didnt get tired as easy as Wlad. I understand Lewis was knocked out twice by 2nd tier fighters, other than that he has never been down, Wlad on the other hand has been knocked down 10 or 11 times, depending on if you want to count the standing 8 he got when he fought Brewster the first time, and TKO'd 3 times, 1 of which was under Manny's tutelage.

As far as I'm concerned that ends the discussion right there. Wlad has a great offense, but unfortunately he can't deal with pressure as well as Lewis, and he doesn't have the inside skills, (ie uppercut, holding etc) that Lewis had. Otherwise he'd be a great, great fighter..

[Shamrock]

Get those balls away from your eyes and try using common sense for once.:roll:

:good :hi:

[Shamrock]

As far as I'm concerned that ends the discussion right there. Wlad has a great offense, but unfortunately he can't deal with pressure as well as Lewis, and he doesn't have the inside skills, (ie uppercut, holding etc) that Lewis had. Otherwise he'd be a great, great fighter..

Steward said Wlad was the better fighter out of the two, knows his shit that boy. :yep

[Vanboxingfan]

Better had the lucky cut not occurred! A ko is planned, a cut happens by chance. (Lennox declined a rematch).

Lennox was WBC champ when he got flattened twice, Wlad's knockdowns against Peter were illegal, and Wlad showed where it was at in the rematch. Also made Byrd look like a schoolboy.......! Didn't Lennox avoid Byrd?

which of the lucky cuts are we talking about..there were numerous cuts on Vitali, not just one. :yep

And I don't think Lewis avoided Byrd, I think he simply felt it wasn't a marketable fight at that point in his career. You don't seriously think Byrd would have beaten him do you?..surely Wlad isn't that much better than Lewis that the outcome would have been marketedly different.

[Shamrock]

which of the lucky cuts are we talking about..there were numerous cuts on Vitali, not just one. :yep


you need to follow all the posts m8

[Lance_Uppercut]

:good :hi:

AFter years of posting here, this is still the best you can do. :patsch

Explain to me HOW Vitali would ahve won when he had sever cuts to his face.

[Shamrock]

which of the lucky cuts are we talking about..there were numerous cuts on Vitali, not just one. :yep

And I don't think Lewis avoided Byrd, I think he simply felt it wasn't a marketable fight at that point in his career. You don't seriously think Byrd would have beaten him do you?..surely Wlad isn't that much better than Lewis that the outcome would have been marketedly different.

Lewis was a gunshy heavyweight, the fight could have taken much longer than it did with Wlad. And then we can only surmize at the outcome, Lennox avoided it! Byrd was slick. :yep

[Lance_Uppercut]

Lewis was a gunshy heavyweight, the fight could have taken much longer than it did with Wlad. And then we can only surmize at the outcome, Lennox avoided it! Byrd was slick. :yep

Lewis was gunshy? I guess you just paid attention LATER in his career. :patsch

[Shamrock]

AFter years of posting here, this is still the best you can do. :patsch

Explain to me HOW Vitali would ahve won when he had sever cuts to his face.

:smooch

[Mindspring]

My thoughts are that the fight happened 4 years ago, Lennox Lewis won and everyone should get over it. *If* the cut didn't happen maybe it would have turned out different. But the cut did happen, and the stoppage was not out of line at all, all the complaining and debating isn't going to change a thing. I can't believe how many people still get riled up discussing this fight

I agree, it's old news, but I remember when the fight was made, everyone asked, Vitali who? Even Lennox asked the question. I even asked the question, but was pleased to see one helluva' fight break out that night.:bbb :bbb
Fact is, Vitali made an imprint that few imagined. He completely surprised Lewis and gained his respect.
This was a heavyweight fight to die for...regardless of the outcome, this matchup had the potential to be on the all time best list, so let us treat this post with respect and kinda' move on:deal
Thanks.

[Lance_Uppercut]

:smooch

I see you have no intention of posting anything that resembles what could have come in the 7th round. At least that is/has been established troll.

[Fighting Weight]

Wlad got tired under that phantom drug when in with Brewster,

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Always amusing.

[Shamrock]

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Always amusing.

Great to see the funny side :yep

[RUSKULL]

wlad said he was in the best shape of his life before the purrity fight............

He punched himself out of energy in that fight & besides, he's had a lot of life since so it's quite possible he's been in better shape since. :thumbsup

[Drexl]

Steward said Wlad was the better fighter out of the two, knows his shit that boy. :yep

"Man praises boss"?
What a shock!!!!!

Wlad pays his bills. Lennox doesn't anymore. It's not rocket science. :roll:

Steward also said......

"There is absolutely no way Kelly Pavlik is operating on the same level that Jermain is on right now, mentally or physically. He’s a basic right-handed fighter. Jermain will control him with his jab.

"Kelly Pavlik has never been in with a fighter on Jermain’s level. Kelly is a Versus fighter. Jermain is an HBO fighter. It will be a tough fight for one round at most."

"In all the years I’ve been training fighters, I’ve never had a fighter in better shape mentally or physically than Jermain is now. I’ll be honest with you. Even if I was Marvin Hagler or Sugar Ray Robinson, I wouldn’t want to be fighting this Jermain Taylor."


So, in the words of the man you seem to think always tells the truth and is always right.... Taylor is physically and mentally better than Wlad.

:lol:

[BewareofDawg]

Vitali won the event though

[Relentless]

just like ray austin won the event.

[BewareofDawg]

just like ray austin won the event.
Ray Austin got his ass knocked out by a fighter who only used 1 hand :lol: He won the "Thanks for showing up" award.....but not the Event :nono

[Drexl]

Vitali won the event though

I thought "the event" was a boxing match... :think

My bad.

[BewareofDawg]

I thought "the event" was a boxing match... :think

My bad.
No. The event is so much more :good

[Relentless]

Ray Austin got his ass knocked out by a fighter who only used 1 hand :lol: He won the "Thanks for showing up" award.....but not the Event :nono

vitlay just can't beat SBA's everytime he steps up in competition he gets his ass beaten and then he cries like winky wright.

[Drexl]

No. The event is so much more :good

Was there a pie-eating contest and pony rides as well or something?

I must have missed them.

If Vitali had swept all the other competitons that happened that night (Sack race, Arm Wrestle, Tiddlywinks, Egg & Spoon race etc..) and capped it off with a win in the "three-legged race" with Wlad strapped to him, then I guess you are right.

Vitali must have won the event and should rightly be declared "Belle of the Ball".

[barneyrub]

He punched himself out of energy in that fight & besides, he's had a lot of life since so it's quite possible he's been in better shape since. :thumbsupIts always nice to see certain fighters given an excuse, the difference is Lewis never claimed to be out of shape, to of punched himself out, to of been poisioned. He just said ok, lets do it again and this time i will make you pay. He didnt need to with vitali though , he already beat him to within a mm of losing his eye.

[barneyrub]

I agree, it's old news, but I remember when the fight was made, everyone asked, Vitali who? Even Lennox asked the question. I even asked the question, but was pleased to see one helluva' fight break out that night.:bbb :bbb
Fact is, Vitali made an imprint that few imagined. He completely surprised Lewis and gained his respect.
This was a heavyweight fight to die for...regardless of the outcome, this matchup had the potential to be on the all time best list, so let us treat this post with respect and kinda' move on:deal
Thanks.Luckily this fight was watched live by 4.6 million which in todays world is a rare occurrence.

[Shamrock]

"Man praises boss"?
What a shock!!!!!

Wlad pays his bills. Lennox doesn't anymore. It's not rocket science. :roll:

Steward also said......

"There is absolutely no way Kelly Pavlik is operating on the same level that Jermain is on right now, mentally or physically. He’s a basic right-handed fighter. Jermain will control him with his jab.

"Kelly Pavlik has never been in with a fighter on Jermain’s level. Kelly is a Versus fighter. Jermain is an HBO fighter. It will be a tough fight for one round at most."

"In all the years I’ve been training fighters, I’ve never had a fighter in better shape mentally or physically than Jermain is now. I’ll be honest with you. Even if I was Marvin Hagler or Sugar Ray Robinson, I wouldn’t want to be fighting this Jermain Taylor."


So, in the words of the man you seem to think always tells the truth and is always right.... Taylor is physically and mentally better than Wlad.

:lol:

So you quote Steward out of context, is that habit forming? :yep

You would believe it if he said LL was best...........! But he didn't! I can see the merits why while youre blind lovin on the past :lol:

[Thread Stealer]

what happened is that an old, out of shape, inactive for a year lummox lewis had trouble with vitali, but still won regardless.

[Shamrock]

what happened is that an old, out of shape, inactive for a year lummox lewis had trouble with vitali, but still won regardless.

Vitali made Lummox look old, but lummox won by a lucky cut. :smooch

[Thread Stealer]

Vitali made Lummox look old, but lummox won by a lucky cut. :smooch

Lucky, schmucky.

Vitali had a heavy, undertrained, inactive for a year Lummox in front of him, and still did not get the job done although his effort was admirable.

[H .]

With all the Vitali talk today, I figured this could use a bump.

I'm surprised to see low responses here from Ruskull, Widdow_Maker, and HeavyRightHand.

[cuchulain]

The cut was too severe for Vitali to continue.

Winning or not, the result was TKO 6 in favour of Lennox.

That said, Lennox was at the end of his great career and wisely declined the rematch.

[bachatu]

I didnt watch the fight live. But after seeing peoples comments on threads I thought Lennox got his ass kicked. then after i watched the fight and noticed Lennox did loose the early rounds, but Lennox clearly was came back during the second half of the fight and had the momentum. It appeared that Lennox needed some rounds to adjust to Vitalis style and he adjusted accordingly; once he did that he started catching Vitali and would have kO'd him or won by unanimous decision. I think part of the reason why people made such a big deal of this fight was because Vitali certainly challenged Lewis more than other fighters while Lennox was still the reigning champ, but Lewis was still the better fighter that night imo.


Edit: After rewatching the figh on youtube again with volume down. Although Vitali had his moments early on, in the end it was clear that Lennox's punches were more destructive and had more power behind them. He was breaking down Vitali physically, and it was only a matter of time.

[RICH]

Great fight. The cut was unfortunate as we were robbed of a better ending.

I think Vitali would have taken Lewis out.


:good

[Axe]

Awesome thread. Totally revolutionary, never before seen on ESB material.

Wish I thought of this first. :tired

[Random1]

I give Vitali credit for putting up a good fight, but hey, the cut wasn't caused by a headbutt.

[boxingcar]

Without the cut , Vitali would've tkoed Lennox Lewis.
And lennox' decision to not give vitali a rematch was one of the smartest move in his career. (at least he ended on a good note).

[Random1]

Odd, my post said it was edited by someone else as soon as it was posted. :nut

[H .]

bump, for the newbies

:smoke

[BewareofDawg]

Vitali won the event though
:deal

[Heavyrighthand]

Anyone knows what that members only inteview with Lennox says on the site that talks about boxing?

[bill poster]

Lennox won. End of.

[H .]

Anyone knows what that members only inteview with Lennox says on the site that talks about boxing?

:conf

[Drexl]

So you quote Steward out of context, is that habit forming? :yep

You would believe it if he said LL was best...........! But he didn't! I can see the merits why while youre blind lovin on the past :lol:
Learn the correct use of English before attempting to sound clever. What was "out of context" about what I quoted? ... and WTF does your "habit forming" comment even mean? :verysad

He did say the same type of stuff about Lennox while he was training him. That doesn't make is the truth. That is the whole point! He sucks up to whoever is his boss at the time.

I have never EVEN ONCE posted any of his quotes about how great Lennox is because it is just an employee talking about the man who pays his bills. It's meaningless. It was when he was talking about Lennox and it is now.



From an interview a few years ago......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: When was Lennox Lewis at his very best?

Emanuel Steward: "I would say right about the time he fought Botha. He was sharp, precision. I mean, one of the things that I think a lot of people didn't realize about Lennox, Lennox physically was extremely extremely strong. And guys who would fight him and I would see them after, the first thing they would say is they were amazed at how physically strong he was. And he blocked punches - it was just like hitting a big tree trunk or something, he would just push you off. Lennox was very physically strong. And very unpredictable, even with us in the camp. We didn't know when Lennox would come out and just explode soon as the bell would ring. Or he would come out and be cautious. You never could tell about him. He's very unpredictable and explosive. He was the best heavyweight I ever worked with."

Q: When he was at his best, do you think there was any heavyweight in history who could beat him?

Emanuel Steward: "When Lennox was at his very best he'd have been very difficult for anyone to beat. And I've said this a lot. The greatest heavyweight of all time was Muhammad Ali. And I will say Ali would have had problems with Lennox. Lennox was still taller than Ali. And Lennox had a very good left jab himself. But that's the closest anybody - not that he might have beaten Ali - but I think Ali would have beaten all the heavyweights in history, that I saw, still. But I think the ones he would have had the most trouble with were with Lennox and Larry Holmes. Ali would have problems with Larry Holmes - in his prime. All of them in their prime. And he would have problems with Lennox Lewis."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Again, I wouldn't even bother mentioning it if you hadn't claimed he never said anything like that about Lennox, but there you go.... He did.

Just because Steward says something doesn't mean it's true. I form my opinions for myself. You should try it sometime.

:good