Rank These Fighters By Their Accomplishments

[salsanchezfan]

..........Please rank the following fighters in order of their career accomplishments. Not skill, remember. Let's leave that out of the equation. Just what they were able to accomplish, regardless of the tools they had or didn't have...........

Eder Jofre
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Ezzard Charles
Michael Spinks
Carlos Monzon
Carlos Ortiz

[Sweet Pea]

Ezzard Charles
Carlos Ortiz
Carlos Monzon
Marvin Hagler
Tommy Hearns
Michael Spinks
Eder Jofre

Likely, based purely on resume/accomplishments. Spinks is a tough one to rank.

[salsanchezfan]

Ezzard Charles
Carlos Ortiz
Carlos Monzon
Marvin Hagler
Tommy Hearns
Michael Spinks
Eder Jofre

Likely, based purely on resume/accomplishments. Spinks is a tough one to rank.



...........Hmmmmm. Okay, cool thanks. It'll be interesting to see some others. I have an inkling as to how it will go, but I wanted to see for sure.

[teeto]

Mine - this is tight in some areas of the list though -
Charles
Monzon
Ortiz
Spinks
Hagler
Hearns
Jofre

I know i'll get detractors for the Spinks- Hagler situation, but i accept that could possibly wrong or right.

This is quite funny though, because Jofre may be top (Charles?) if it were strictly a p4p list

[salsanchezfan]

...........Anyone else? I'd like to get a concensus. :D

[brooklyn1550]

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Carlos Ortiz
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Thomas Hearns
6. Michael Spinks
7. Eder Jofre

[salsanchezfan]

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Carlos Ortiz
4. Marvin Hagler
5. Thomas Hearns
6. Michael Spinks
7. Eder Jofre


...........Many thanks.

Keep 'em coming folks!

[teeto]

Charles seems to be undisputed king of this thread!!!

[Ted Spoon]

1) Ezzard Charles
2) Carlos Monzon
3) Carlos Ortiz

The top three are quite solid, then it becomes a more level playing field:

4) Michael Spinks
5) Marvin Hagler
6) Thomas Hearn's
7) Eder Jofre

[brooklyn1550]

Charles seems to be undisputed king of this thread!!!

As he should be:good

Nobody else on that list comes close to matching his resume, despite the fact that all of them are legendary fighters.

[sweet_scientist]

..........Please rank the following fighters in order of their career accomplishments. Not skill, remember. Let's leave that out of the equation. Just what they were able to accomplish, regardless of the tools they had or didn't have...........

Eder Jofre
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Ezzard Charles
Michael Spinks
Carlos Monzon
Carlos Ortiz
Ezzard Charles
Marvin Hagler (I had him edging Ray and beating Vito twice)
Carlos Ortiz
Tommy Hearns
Carlos Monzon
Michael Spinks
Eder Jofre

Hagler, Ortiz, Hearns, Monzon and Spinks are very hard to distinguish accomplishment-wise.

[teeto]

As he should be:good

Nobody else on that list comes close to matching his resume, despite the fact that all of them are legendary fighters.
You're right , he is a lock for number 1 imo (as in everyone else's!) , and Jofre is the undisputed bottom place here it seems , that is right though. However , he was a great fighter , one of the best ever imo, the fact that he's bottom of this list is the main reason why many dont rate him as high as i do as a ATG - achievement. But he was said to be absolutely amazing in his prime, got beat twice by a very good fighter who seemed to be his bogeyman, and then comes back past his prime and at a higher weight and wins all his remaining fights at the top level - greta fighter imo

[salsanchezfan]

I figured Charles would rank #1, but some of the answers down the list are a bit surprising. To be honest, I could see many names here flip-flopped and completely understand the reasoning behind them.

[Pat_Lowe]

Ezzard Charles
Marvin Hagler (I had him edging Ray and beating Vito twice)
Carlos Ortiz
Tommy Hearns
Carlos Monzon
Michael Spinks
Eder Jofre

Hagler, Ortiz, Hearns, Monzon and Spinks are very hard to distinguish accomplishment-wise.

Hearns above Monzon? Interesting, he would be one of the fighters I'd rank highly based largely on head to head ability.

[salsanchezfan]

Hearns above Monzon? Interesting, he would be one of the fighters I'd rank highly based largely on head to head ability.



............Nice to see ya Pat, you still fighting?

[Sizzle]

Ezzard Charles
Carlos Monzon
Michael Spinks
Marvin Hagler
Eder Jofre
Carlos Ortiz
Thomas Hearns

[sweet_scientist]

Hearns above Monzon? Interesting, he would be one of the fighters I'd rank highly based largely on head to head ability.

Weird thing is I have Hagler and Monzon right next to each other on a p4p list and Hearns is about 15 spots behind them.

I give Hearns the edge accomplishments-wise for going up in weight and doing the business, but I'm not sure I can give you a more solid reason for why he should rank above Monzon. Afterall you could say then why doesn't he rank above Hagler as well? And to that I'd say I don't know, it just seems weird to have him above Hagler after the way Marvin dealt with him.

[Sweet Pea]

Ezzard Charles
Carlos Monzon
Michael Spinks
Marvin Hagler
Eder Jofre
Carlos Ortiz
Thomas HearnsNo way Ortiz rates that low. His resume is second only to Charles's on that list.

[brownpimp88]

No way Ortiz rates that low. His resume is second only to Charles's on that list.
exactly!

Loi, locce, borwn, elorde, ramos and laguna. His resume is easily #2 on this list.

[Ted Spoon]

There is some structure to this list.

Ezzard Charles is undisputedly #1 here with master classes over equally highly rated fighters in Burley and Moore, which gives him a unique pedigree.

Ted Spoon chose Carlos Monzon for his second, and although married by Haglers better exposed era, there should be no confusement over who comes first out of the two when accomplishments are concerned:

-Monzon tamed the real Bennie Briscoe, fought more qualified, natural middleweights in Benvenuti and Valdez, also fought past his best, yet did not lose and tortured the aspiring welterweight Napoles.

Where Hagler failed, Monzon did not.

Ortiz, for his stellar record when faced with classy opposition at different weights and his longevity, fits in snugly at #3. Could easily be #2.

The real two interchangeables are Hagler and Spinks, who were both dominant at their bests weights, Hagler a little longer, but Spinks succeeded at the higher weight. Hmmm.

Hearn's lost out to the better men of his day, but they really were great. It's tough to be sharing an era with Leonard and Hagler, but that ugly loss to Barkley, underlining the hitmans main weakness, makes sure he stays lower. Still, a multiple weight champion with tremendous wins.

Jofre is a true P4P fighter, not really because of his record, but because of his distinguished style - that explosive, two-handed variety of boxing. Ultimately, this thread is about accomplishments and the Harada losses had a lot to do with a styles clash, not so much the uncomfortable poundage situation.

[sweet_scientist]

There is some structure to this list.

Ezzard Charles is undisputedly #1 here with master classes over equally highly rated fighters in Burley and Moore, which gives him a unique pedigree.

Ted Spoon chose Carlos Monzon for his second, and although married by Haglers better exposed era, there should be no confusement over who comes first out of the two when accomplishments are concerned:

-Monzon tamed the real Bennie Briscoe, fought more qualified, natural middleweights in Benvenuti and Valdez, also fought past his best, yet did not lose and tortured the aspiring welterweight Napoles.

Where Hagler failed, Monzon did not.

Ortiz, for his stellar record when faced with classy opposition at different weights and his longevity, fits in snugly at #3. Could easily be #2.

The real two interchangeables are Hagler and Spinks, who were both dominant at their bests weights, Hagler a little longer, but Spinks succeeded at the higher weight. Hmmm.

Hearn's lost out to the better men of his day, but they really were great. It's tough to be sharing an era with Leonard and Hagler, but that ugly loss to Barkley, underlining the hitmans main weakness, makes sure he stays lower. Still, a multiple weight champion with tremendous wins.

Jofre is a true P4P fighter, not really because of his record, but because of his distinguished style - that explosive, two-handed variety of boxing. Ultimately, this thread is about accomplishments and the Harada losses had a lot to do with a styles clash, not so much the uncomfortable poundage situation.

Ted, if you felt Hagler beat Leonard, would you still have Monzon above him?

[Ted Spoon]

Ted, if you felt Hagler beat Leonard, would you still have Monzon above him?
Aye, because the implications following the result would have been in the mold of 'Hagler should have beat Leonard', it was the expected decision, or rather, 'Hagler looked bad and Leonard still has some life left'.

Above this however; Briscoe, Benvenuti, Griffith and Valdez were a cut above Haglers crop.

[sweet_scientist]

Aye, because the implications following the result would have been in the mold of 'Hagler should have beat Leonard', it was the expected decision, or rather, 'Hagler looked bad and Leonard still has some life left'.
Maybe, but I tell you what, I think Leonard that night looked better than Briscoe, Benvenuti, Griffith or Napoles EVER did at the weight and I'd pick THAT Leonard to beat them all. (No doubt many, if not everyone, lol would disagree with that, but hey that's what I feel. BTW, I think too much is made of Hagler and Leonard being past their primes in their fight. They were, but both worked tremendously hard to get in shape for the fight. They weren't shells of their former selves as some make out.)

Above this however; Briscoe, Benvenuti, Griffith and Valdez were a cut above Haglers crop.
I don't really agree in terms of their h2h ability, but they were more accomplished at the weight than a lot of Hagler's middleweight opposition were.

[Manassa]

Jofre, so consistently low...

[Sweet Pea]

Jofre, so consistently low...In a thread based purely on resume and accomplishments, you'd disagree?

[Ted Spoon]

Maybe, but I tell you what, I think Leonard that night looked better than Briscoe, Benvenuti, Griffith or Napoles EVER did at the weight and I'd pick THAT Leonard to beat them all. (No doubt many, if not everyone, lol would disagree with that, but hey that's what I feel. BTW, I think too much is made of Hagler and Leonard being past their primes in their fight. They were, but both worked tremendously hard to get in shape for the fight. They weren't shells of their former selves as some make out.)


I don't really agree in terms of their h2h ability, but they were more accomplished at the weight than a lot of Hagler's middleweight opposition were.
That is a fair assumption, but this is a direct comparison.

Hagler would be favoured, but have his hands full with Nino, Emile, 'Bad' Bennie and Valdez. Emile is a fighter who could casually upset an orthodox fighter like Hagler with his combination of strength and feints.

Monzon would turn Sibson, Hamsho & co into putty, as did Hagler.

Duran would be interesting, but simply to small to count against Monzon's strength. Leonard would probably have to go into survival mode to last the distance against Monzon as he is badly out gunned.

Both men fought on past their best, but Monzon held it together in the end. It has to be said that if Hagler found Mugabi tough he would have had hell with Valdez near the end of his career.

[Sizzle]

No way Ortiz rates that low. His resume is second only to Charles's on that list.

I disagree, Hagler/Monzons supreme dominance at middleweight and Spinks dominance at lightheavyweight coupled with what he achieved at heavyweight sets all three above Ortiz in my opinion.

[Sweet Pea]

I disagree, Hagler/Monzons supreme dominance at middleweight and Spinks dominance at lightheavyweight coupled with what he achieved at heavyweight sets all three above Ortiz in my opinion.Ortiz had top wins at two weight classes as well, and when you compare the quality of their top wins with Ortiz, he holds the clear edge. Spinks has top notch wins in 2 weight classes, as does Ortiz, but purely in terms of accomplishments, Ortiz has the better resume than Monzon and especially Hagler, and his conquests of two weight classes should also rate him above those two. This is when taking into account only resumes/accomplishments, once again.

Ortiz: Loi, Locche, Brown, Laguna, Elorde, Ramos(all HOF'ers)

Monzon: Benvenuti, Valdez, Briscoe, Napoles, Griffith

Hagler: Hearns, Duran, Mugabi, Hamsho, Antuofermo

Spinks: Holmes, Cooney, Qawi, Muhammad, Johnson, Davis

[Sizzle]

Ortiz had top wins at two weight classes as well, and when you compare the quality of their top wins with Ortiz, he holds the clear edge. Spinks has top notch wins in 2 weight classes, as does Ortiz, but purely in terms of accomplishments, Ortiz has the better resume than Monzon and especially Hagler, and his conquests of two weight classes should also rate him above those two. This is when taking into account only resumes/accomplishments, once again.

Ortiz: Loi, Locche, Brown, Laguna, Elorde, Ramos(all HOF'ers)

Monzon: Benvenuti, Valdez, Briscoe, Napoles, Griffith

Hagler: Hearns, Duran, Mugabi, Hamsho, Antuofermo

Spinks: Holmes, Cooney, Qawi, Muhammad, Johnson, Davis

But how do you factor in consistency? For example, yes Ortiz beat Loi, but he also lost to him twice.

Monzon crushed every ranked contender placed before him.

Hagler dominated the middleweight division for something like seven years, before losing indecisively to Ray Leonard.

Spinks too was undefeated at lightheavyweight. And made the DIFFICULT leap to heavyweight to win the top honours there. (Certainly a bigger leap than going from lightweight to lightwelterweight for example)

In my humble opinion, all three dominated strong eras against top notch opposition.

If Ortiz has the better wins, then I think it's fair to say his resume is a little patchier than the aforementioned fighters.

I'm not saying there is NO CASE for Ortiz to be rated above them, but I don't think he is undisputably second of that lot as you suggest.

[Manassa]

In a thread based purely on resume and accomplishments, you'd disagree?

Not necessarily, it just seems a shame.

[Stonehands89]

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Eder Jofre
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Carlos Ortiz
5. Michael Spinks
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Marvin Hagler

Jofre at #2. The comeback launches him in this list. He was 37, fighting above his prime weight, and went 14-0 to get a title shot against Legra ("Pocket Cassius Clay"), who was 29 years old. Then he defends against Saldivar, who he KOd with one shot. His record is a stand-out - 72-2-4 with 50 KOs and he was never stopped.

I also have Hearns over Hagler -I love dominance, but Hearns taking titles over such an expanse of weight classes is nothing to sneeze at... and that after he beats Benitez and Duran -he outboxed a genious and shattered a chin of stone.

[JohnThomas1]

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Eder Jofre
3. Carlos Monzon
4. Carlos Ortiz
5. Michael Spinks
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Marvin Hagler

Jofre at #2. The comeback launches him in this list. He was 37, fighting above his prime weight, and went 14-0 to get a title shot against Legra ("Pocket Cassius Clay"), who was 29 years old. Then he defends against Saldivar, who he KOd with one shot. His record is a stand-out - 72-2-4 with 50 KOs and he was never stopped.

I also have Hearns over Hagler -I love dominance, but Hearns taking titles over such an expanse of weight classes is nothing to sneeze at... and that after he beats Benitez and Duran -he outboxed a genious and shattered a chin of stone.
You've won me over, but i'm swapping Jofre and Monzon.

1. Carlos Monzon
2. Ezzard Charles
3. Eder Jofre
4. Carlos Ortiz
5. Michael Spinks
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Marvin Hagler

Actually i am going to edit and bang Monzon in at 1.

[red cobra]

..........Please rank the following fighters in order of their career accomplishments. Not skill, remember. Let's leave that out of the equation. Just what they were able to accomplish, regardless of the tools they had or didn't have...........

Eder Jofre
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Ezzard Charles
Michael Spinks
Carlos Monzon
Carlos Ortiz
1. Carlos Monzon - Monzon has the distinction of fighting the best put before him and won them all, retiring unbeaten as champion. I know he lost 3 fights early in hid career, but they were all decisions, and he beat them all in returns.
2. Eder Jofre - Easily the best fighter no one has ever seen. Winning all but to the great Fighting Harada, who had his number, then coming back to annex the featherweight title and then retiring as champion.
3. Ezzard Charles - After having a career as a peerless lightheavyweight, masterfully outboxed Joe Louis, and gave Rocky Marciano his two toughest fights.
4. Marvin Hagler - Dominated his era of middleweight challengers, the highlight, obviously being his titanic war against Hearns.
5. Carlos Ortiz - Master of the class of lightweights of his generation, proved his worth by avenging his defeat by Laguna by beating him twice in return.
6. Michael Spinks - Established himself as boss of the early to mid-eighties era of lightheavies, achieved that one of a kind accomplishment of taking the heavyweight title (though dubiously) from Larry Holmes.
7. Thomas Hearns - Established himself as a dominant force for a time in various weight classes, though failed twice in winning the biggest fights of his career.

[Pat_Lowe]

............Nice to see ya Pat, you still fighting?

Yeh you too. Um nah I'm having a break, I've been on like a 3 month long drinking binge etc lol. Just celebrating my turning 18 and that so yeah its been put off for a little bit.

[Musashi]

..........Please rank the following fighters in order of their career accomplishments. Not skill, remember. Let's leave that out of the equation. Just what they were able to accomplish, regardless of the tools they had or didn't have...........

Eder Jofre
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Ezzard Charles
Michael Spinks
Carlos Monzon
Carlos Ortiz

1.) Charles
2.) Monzon
3.) Hagler
4.) Ortiz
5.) Hearns
6.) Jofre
7.) Spinks

Ask me on another day, and several of these fighters could be moved around (except Charles).

[Vantage_West]

Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler
Carlos Monzon
Carlos Ortiz
Ezzard Charles
Eder Jofre
Michael Spinks


:think am i biased.

i thikn hearns ranks higher becuase of having 5 wieghts under his belt. in which he could of won a fight against thompson and possibly got a 6th wieght.

hagler becuase of his longatitvity and who's who of the division.