So, Taylor apologists....

[Amsterdam]

Is Ouma still a 'good win' on his resume?:yep

He's always mentioned, along with Spinks, as if they were merits on his record that should be considered top opposition for a large Middleweight.

Now, Spinks won his fight this weekend and Ouma almost did, this is not the major reason to bring it up. But I think everyone can finally see that both are small, extremely limited LMW's that didn't belong in the ring with a large MW?

And shouldn't be mentioned as 'top opposition' when discussing Taylor's resume and competition, that everyone has been so high on?

:yep

[iceman]

Is Ouma still a 'good win' on his resume?:yep

He's always mentioned, along with Spinks, as if they were merits on his record that should be considered top opposition for a large Middleweight.

Now, Spinks won his fight this weekend and Ouma almost did, this is not the major reason to bring it up. But I think everyone can finally see that both are small, extremely limited LMW's that didn't belong in the ring with a large MW?

And shouldn't be mentioned as 'top opposition' when discussing Taylor's resume and competition, that everyone has been so high on?

:yep

:lol: I was waiting for this.Whats your point?
Taylor will be judged on his performance against Pavlik in their 2nd fight when he acquitted himself very well and lost a narrow decision.
Why dwell on the performance of a shot Ouma?

Ps - i'm not a Taylor apologist

[Bslice]

I take it that Ouma lost last night then ? I think Ouma has definitely lost a step since he fought Jermain Taylor and I believe he was was a quality opponent at the time he fought Jermain.

[PH|LLA]

I still can't believe Hopkins lost to Taylor. Un-fucking-believable.

Talk about taking full advantage of a good style matchup against a much better fighter

[BOGART]

I wouldn't go as far to say Ouma and Spinks are some sort of great wins for Taylor. What I will say is that coming in between Hopkins twice, Wright, and Pavlik twice, Spinks and Ouma are quality stay busy type of fights. Those fights were simply easier defenses amongst his obvious big ones. When put into context-for "easier" defenses, Ouma and Spinks were quality.

However, after seeing Ouma lose again last night, a slight reevaluation of the Ouma that Taylor fought may be idea. But it wouldn't change much. For that stretch of 7 fights from Hopkins 1 until Pavlik 2, Taylor may have fought better competition than anyone in boxing. Spinks and Ouma were simply the easiest of that stretch. Not too bad actually.

[Boro chris]

I still can't believe Hopkins lost to Taylor. Un-fucking-believable.

Talk about taking full advantage of a good style matchup against a much better fighter

Or sometimes boxing simply doesn't make any sense!:D
Mayorga v Forrest?

[booradley]

I wouldn't go as far to say Ouma and Spinks are some sort of great wins for Taylor. What I will say is that coming in between Hopkins twice, Wright, and Pavlik twice, Spinks and Ouma are quality stay busy type of fights. Those fights were simply easier defenses amongst his obvious big ones. When put into context-for "easier" defenses, Ouma and Spinks were quality.

However, after seeing Ouma lose again last night, a slight reevaluation of the Ouma that Taylor fought may be idea. But it wouldn't change much. For that stretch of 7 fights from Hopkins 1 until Pavlik 2, Taylor may have fought better competition than anyone in boxing. Spinks and Ouma were simply the easiest of that stretch. Not too bad actually.

Good post.

[KO Boxing]

Whoever said either Ouma or Spinks were "good" wins for Taylor CAN be labeled an "apologist"...

But Taylor's performance in those fights is not enough to make me a Taylor "hater". He's 1-1-1 in his 2 fights against Hopkins (1-0-1) and Wright (0-1), but he still performed well enough in those fights (against fighters who WERE still elite at the time) to be considered a "good" fighter.

And as has been said a million times, Taylor had nothing to do with the judges in those fights. So it's not HIM.

And what's not to like in the Pavlik fights? He lost, but he fought well, and they were entertaining enough. And for someone who doesn't like Taylor, his losses further prove him as NOT being elite (although its hard to not rate him at all).

[Decebal]

Let me answer that question, being that I am a Taylor apologist and all.

I'm not sure how important those victories are, and, anyway...they are in the past...But I do know that Taylor's last performance has been of almost B+ level. Pretty good, I think.

:good

[Taylex]

I still can't believe Hopkins lost to Taylor. Un-fucking-believable.

Talk about taking full advantage of a good style matchup against a much better fighter

Agreed! How on eath did Taylor beat Hopkins I will never know. I think BHOP convinced himself that he could not out-work Taylor for 12 rounds and tried to pace him self.

Both fights were very close decisions and I think BHOP was just unlucky not to get the victory.

[Brickhaus]

Ouma hasn't been the same since he moved up in weight. He had the same problem that RJJ had when he moved up and back down. Before, he had tons of fast twitch muscle and little else, which meant that he had lots of speed and stamina but little power. When he packed on extra muscle, it added some slow-twitch, negating some of the fast twitch, and when he took off the weight, his muscle composition stayed more like it was at 160 than it was when he was at 154 originally.

Also, word on the street is that Ouma has been partaking heavily over the past couple years. That can't help his lung capacity, and thus hurts his stamina.

In any case, the Ouma who fought Taylor wasn't the same Ouma who beat Powell and Rubio, but there was no way Taylor's handlers could have known that until the fight actually happened. In retrospect, it wasn't a good win, but fighting a former beltholder for his 'gimme' fight after just fighting 3 P4P top 10 guys in a row looked respectable enough at the time. If that makes me an apologist, then so be it.

[Amsterdam]

Let me answer that question, being that I am a Taylor apologist and all.

I'm not sure how important those victories are, and, anyway...they are in the past...But I do know that Taylor's last performance has been of almost B+ level. Pretty good, I think.

:good

B.

[Hermit]

I think Taylor was done at 160 and was really struggling to make weight in his last fights. I wouldn't be surprised if that was why he went with smaller opponents. He tried to get his mandatory with Pavlik above the limit. I think those last 4 or 5 pounds affected him. But we shall see. He looked better in his one fight above 160 so far.

[Decebal]

B.

Only if your standards have suddenly gone up. Otherwise, B+.

[ripcity]

Is Ouma still a 'good win' on his resume?:yep

He's always mentioned, along with Spinks, as if they were merits on his record that should be considered top opposition for a large Middleweight.

Now, Spinks won his fight this weekend and Ouma almost did, this is not the major reason to bring it up. But I think everyone can finally see that both are small, extremely limited LMW's that didn't belong in the ring with a large MW?

And shouldn't be mentioned as 'top opposition' when discussing Taylor's resume and competition, that everyone has been so high on?

:yep
So dose this mean that Kelly Pavlik and Bernard Hopkins suck too? I mean Pavlik beat a guy who is obovously over ratted and Hopkins lost to him twice.

[Bslice]

As ive been saying all along, Ouma's boring and he sucks. He's always been a B level guy, nothing special. I don't understand why people used to think so hhighly of him.


People thought highly of him cause Everlast hyped him in their catalog

[klion22]

Who said the Ouma and Spinks fights were "good" wins?

Only naive JT fans would claim that.

Most people criticized JT for fighting the smaller guys. And rightfully so.

So you're point is exactly what? Stating something obvious?

[TFFP]

Is Ouma still a 'good win' on his resume?:yep

He's always mentioned, along with Spinks, as if they were merits on his record that should be considered top opposition for a large Middleweight.

Now, Spinks won his fight this weekend and Ouma almost did, this is not the major reason to bring it up. But I think everyone can finally see that both are small, extremely limited LMW's that didn't belong in the ring with a large MW?

And shouldn't be mentioned as 'top opposition' when discussing Taylor's resume and competition, that everyone has been so high on?

:yep
Not only this, but I've had a guy on here telling me Jermain Taylor has explosive power :lol:

So explosive he can't get rid of these JMW's, or any opponent with a pulse :yep

[rreed23]

Perhaps not but Pavlik was :good

[bigeddie27]

I never really considered ouma a good opponent but taylor is gonna surprise a lot of cats at super middle.

[Boom_Boom]

I never really considered ouma a good opponent but taylor is gonna surprise a lot of cats at super middle.

word :thumbsup

[Amsterdam]

I never really considered ouma a good opponent but taylor is gonna surprise a lot of cats at super middle.

So he's going to fair better against superior opposition?:yep

[IntentionalButt]

Let me answer that question, being that I am a Taylor apologist and all.

I'm not sure how important those victories are, and, anyway...they are in the past...But I do know that Taylor's last performance has been of almost B+ level. Pretty good, I think.

:good

I did not know this about you. :shock:

[DanePugilist]

I don't blame Taylor for being crap - I blame the people, who put him on the top 10 p4p list.

Despite being robbed, Spinks clearly showed again that he is a mediocre fighter.

I sincerely hope that people will think twice before they add:

Taylor
Wright
Hopkins
Tarver
Spinks
Judah

To any kind of top 10 p4p list.

And stop hailing those who manage to beat them by default.