Nikolay Valuev vs. George Foreman [Archive]

Russell

03-31-2008, 09:40 PM

kenmore

03-31-2008, 09:45 PM

I think that even the older, faded comeback Foreman would have been too much for Valuev. Watch Foreman's films from the '90s...you'll see that he still has fast hands, considerable power, ring smarts, an excellent jab, and excellent combination punching ability. These traits, coupled with Foreman's natural strength and durability, would have gotten him past Valuev in my opinion.

I think Foreman would have stopped Valuev late or decisioned him in a good fight.

The prime Foreman, of course, would have blown Valuev away. Just my thoughts.

mr. magoo

03-31-2008, 09:58 PM

Foreman beats the crap out of him. Valuev does not have a punch that can hurt George, and he would be open to George's ax chopping away at him. Foreman knocks him out by mid rounds.

Russell

03-31-2008, 10:03 PM

Would if look like Louis chopping down Buddy Baer?

mr. magoo

03-31-2008, 10:07 PM

Would if look like Louis chopping down Buddy Baer?

Better,

Louis looked like a lumber jack taking down a tree.

Foreman would look like a big round demolition ball taking out a skyscraper.

JohnThomas1

03-31-2008, 10:09 PM

Better,

Louis looked like a lumber jack taking down a tree.

Foreman would look like a big round demolition ball taking out a skyscraper.

I am very inclined to agree.

mr. magoo

03-31-2008, 10:12 PM

I am very inclined to agree.

I think that perhaps it would be prudent for George to wear a hard helmet accompanied with a lunch pale to the job site :good

rodney

03-31-2008, 10:44 PM

Forman knocks Valuev stiff.
He would do it if they fought tomorrow, let alone yesterday.

RoccoMarciano

04-01-2008, 12:42 AM

Forman knocks Valuev stiff.
He would do it if they fought tomorrow, let alone yesterday.

:good

That Neanderthal (Valuev) has never belonged in a boxing ring.

SteveO

04-01-2008, 12:48 AM

I think he could (and would) take Valuev's best and dish it back just a little better.

RoccoMarciano

04-01-2008, 01:16 AM

....dish it back just a little better.
Aren't you overestimating Valuev just a tad?

janitor

04-01-2008, 03:26 AM

Foreman would think that all his christmases had come at once to have such a big target in front of him.

RoccoMarciano

04-01-2008, 04:31 AM

Foreman would think that all his christmases had come at once to have such a big target in front of him.

Valuev throwing one of of his "text Book", snail-paced punches would mean lights out! As an earlier poster wrote, George could prolly still clobber the Neanderthal :lol:

ChrisPontius

04-01-2008, 06:51 AM

:good

That Neanderthal (Valuev) has never belonged in a boxing ring.

Fuck off.

ChrisPontius

04-01-2008, 06:54 AM

Every retard saying "He doesn't belong in a boxing ring" has no respect for human beings whatsoever.

What has Valuev ever done to you? He's an honest guy who was humble in defeat. Yes some of his decisions were dodgy, but this guy doesn't even speak english, do you think he was responsible for that? He's just a simple man who does what he loves, boxing. Just because he's big he doesn't "deserve" to be in a boxing ring and should be called a neanderthal?

The man stepped in the ring 50 times and risked his health for the entertainment of us and showed more balls than most of here ever have or will.

So fuck off, poster "RoccoMarciano"

janitor

04-01-2008, 07:55 AM

:good

That Neanderthal (Valuev) has never belonged in a boxing ring.

If the man is good enough to win the WBA heavyweight title then he probably isnt going to do much better at anything else.

Lobotomy

04-01-2008, 01:23 PM

If George does manage to get his weight down to 225 pounds for a comeback, I think Valuev would be an excellent victim for him to pound on.

More interesting to me would be seeing just how impervious Valuev is to punishment. He'd sure be taking a tremendous amount downstairs.

A surplus of size can be just as serious a physical limitation as a lack of size. Foreman would get inside his long arms, and use Valuev's body as a heavy bag. As a middle aged man, George has greater physical strength than he did as a youngster. (Just look at how much his muscular measurements have increased. And yes, I do sometimes wonder if he messed around with growth enhancers, to obtain the greater muscle mass he developed for his second career. It may be "sacrilege" to suggest such a thing, but Foreman clearly was no more concerned about the rules of the sport inside the ring than he was as a kid, still shoving away, landing kidney shots, and freely indulging in the other rulebending most champions employ. Hey, anything for an edge, right? Maybe that included chemical enhancements as well.)

With Valuev, George's physical strength would actually be magnified by the rare advantage of his having the lower center of gravity. Simply by virtue of having shorter arms, he'd be throwing the shorter, quicker punches for a change. His cross armed defense could be much more of an asset against somebody so much taller than himself.

Even if Valuev had an advantage in physical strength, Foreman gets the edge in coordination, simply by being smaller. George could be wild at times, but how does he manage to miss this target? Nikolai is no HOFer. Foreman is an ATG. But Valuev would not duck Foreman anymore than Frazier did. His guts could well spell his downfall. It would be fascinating to watch though.

Jack

04-01-2008, 01:32 PM

Anyone saying things like "He doesn't belong in a ring" need to understand he has more balls than they ever will. He's stepped into the 50 times, which takes more guts than sitting behind a keyboard and slagging someone off. I like Valuev a lot and I think he gets a hard time from fans. He fought his way up from poverty to become one of the best heavyweights in the world, despite a deabilitating, life shortening condition. He is extremely humble and seems to be a genuinely nice person.

If he wasn't a giant, peple wouldn't have such a problem with him. I don't know why they do, but it's sad.

Anyway, this fight would be almost identical to Foreman/Chuvalo. Valuev isn't mobile enough to beat Foreman, but I doubt he'd go down.

radianttwilight

04-01-2008, 01:42 PM

I think people are selling Valuev short here. If there's anything he has going for him, it's good stamina and a solid chin. I think Valuev could quite possibly decision comeback Foreman, who just wasn't as fast and aggressive as the younger version...but a 1970s Foreman would certainly chop him down to size.

heerko koois

04-01-2008, 01:46 PM

Foreman by ko inside 4 rounds....

mr. magoo

04-01-2008, 02:18 PM

You always get a good value with valuev. For Foreman, this would be like a a big mac extra value meal from McDonald's.

Russell

04-01-2008, 04:23 PM

rodney

04-01-2008, 10:48 PM

Fuck off.

I agree with RoccoMarciano's comments.
NEANDERTHOL --- Valuev.
Also,
No match for Forman.
No match for Primo Cannera.

SuzieQ49

04-02-2008, 01:13 AM

1970s George Foreman by devastating knockout in round 1

RoccoMarciano

04-02-2008, 02:52 AM

If the man is good enough to win the WBA heavyweight title then he probably isnt going to do much better at anything else.

The fact he was ever a winner speaks volumes regarding the current state of HW boxing.

RoccoMarciano

04-02-2008, 02:57 AM

Here come's rocco's seething cliched response...!

What particluar cliche is it you expect me to type? It's pretty obvious what the neanderthal means/meant to boxing.

RoccoMarciano

04-02-2008, 03:03 AM

You always get a good value with valuev. For Foreman, this would be like a a big mac extra value meal from McDonald's.

Extra value :lol:

Valuev would amount to no more than a small snack for George. George eats up an extra value meal from Mac's as if it were an appetizer. :D

Russell

04-02-2008, 03:04 AM

He "means" more to boxing than you mean on on a internet boxing forum, if you've got delusions of unimportance here.

Oh, I get it... You're afraid of the sacred 49-0 Valuev almost cruised by. :lol:

Russell

04-02-2008, 03:04 AM

Extra value :lol:

Valuev would amount to no more than a small snack for George. George eats up an extra value meal from Mac's as if it were an appetizer. :D

I find this funny coming from a pear shaped old man. :hey

RoccoMarciano

04-02-2008, 03:09 AM

if you've got delusions of unimportance here.
Didn't you type a wrong word there?

Oh, I get it... You're afraid of the sacred 49-0 Valuev almost cruised by.

Hard to be "afraid" of something that never happened.

RoccoMarciano

04-02-2008, 03:12 AM

I find this funny coming from a pear shaped old man. :hey
Apparently you are unaware of who used to be in my avatar. It wasn't me of course; although I enjoy Mick's musical skills immensely.

Russell

04-02-2008, 03:31 AM

Feel free to post a real picture of yourself. I'm sure it's even more flattering. :rofl

I'll be waiting.

RoccoMarciano

04-02-2008, 04:13 AM

Feel free to post a real picture of yourself. I'm sure it's even more flattering. :rofl

I'll be waiting.
Why? Are you suddenly attracted to me? :lol:

Russell

04-02-2008, 04:24 AM

I'm intrigued by you telling me I was mislead by the rotund, ugly man in your avatar looking, obviously, nothing like you.

10-1 odds Rocco looks more like a Neanderthal than Valuev, guys.

Anyone want to take me up on this one?

RoccoMarciano

04-02-2008, 04:39 AM

10-1 odds Rocco looks more like a Neanderthal than Valuev, guys.

Actually I look more like my current avatar, Russ.... not that I'm trying to get a beetle's thing hard :lol:

mr. magoo

04-02-2008, 08:24 AM

Actually I look more like my current avatar, Russ.... not that I'm trying to get a beetle's thing hard :lol:

LOL:lol:

I like Russell, but that was too funny to resist cracking up about :cheers

mcvey

04-02-2008, 10:31 AM

Original and comeback George.

Can George get through Valuev's massive reach to land those big shots, or even his thudding jab?

Valuev's got a very underrated jab himself, and George's body might make a tempting target. Valuev CAN attack the body very well.

George, at 215, is literally going to be giving up more than a 100 pounds to Valuev...

How's it go?
Both versions beat the Russian up,George Mark 1 quicker,I dont like the slagging Valuev is getting either ,he isnt much as a fighter ,imo ,but an article I read about him shows a decent man who just happens to be very big.
For the same reason I dislike the word bum when used about a fighter,it takes balls to get in a ring,I know,I used to be near panic before I went in.

mr. magoo

04-02-2008, 10:38 AM

Both versions beat the Russian up,George Mark 1 quicker,I dont like the slagging Valuev is getting either ,he isnt much as a fighter ,imo ,but an article I read about him shows a decent man who just happens to be very big.
For the same reason I dislike the word bum when used about a fighter,it takes balls to get in a ring,I know,I used to be near panic before I went in.

A fair post.

I often like to make fun of Valuev, but by no means do I consider him to be a bum. He's held a world title, won 47 out of 48 fights, and may yet improve his legacy should he beat Chagaev in May. I also agree that he seems to be a decent human being. Wlad impresses me with his identity outside the ring too. He has a PHd, can speak several languages and seems like a nice person in his interviews. As much as I would like to see another American heavyweight champion, I sadly must admit that many of them from the past were not as well educated or as nice of people as our current friends from Eastern Europe.

Jack

04-02-2008, 10:40 AM

No match for Primo Cannera.
:lol:

Valuev is better than Carnera. Pretty easily, actually.

SuzieQ49

04-02-2008, 10:48 AM

Primo Carnera wide unanimous decision Valuev

guncho

04-02-2008, 11:01 AM

70's foreman by close UD (foreman had stamina problems)

90's foreman would lose clouse SD!

Valuev has a great chin so I don't think foreman could ko or tko him!

mcvey

04-02-2008, 11:04 AM

Primo Carnera wide unanimous decision Valuev
Ill second that Carnera is a league above Valuev,imo.

janitor

04-02-2008, 05:00 PM

The fact he was ever a winner speaks volumes regarding the current state of HW boxing.

Are you suggesting that he could have got further as a profesional basketball player or a jazz musician?

Perhaps he could have been a paleontologist of world renown but there wouldnt have been any money in it for him.

I have been verry skeptical of Valuev throughout his career but his last fight got my atention.

Russell

04-02-2008, 05:20 PM

Are you suggesting that he could have got further as a profesional basketball player or a jazz musician?

Perhaps he could have been a paleontologist of world renown but there wouldnt have been any money in it for him.

I have been verry skeptical of Valuev throughout his career but his last fight got my atention.

Being critical of him is fine but I can't fathom how anyone without some kind of "He's a huge fucking freak' initial reaction could think he was terrible, or even medicore.

Top tier chin, good pacing/stamina, he works the body VERY well when he chooses to, respectable power, monster reach, controls the other man in the clinches very well.

One of the best of the current crop, in all honesty.

Jack

04-02-2008, 05:21 PM

Primo Carnera wide unanimous decision Valuev
Carnera is less skilled, has less stamina, doesn't punch as hard, is probably slower and has a much poorer chin.

How could Carnera win?

To be honest, I don't really care about what you say. You're just another poster who would have a completely opinion opinion if Valuev was around in the 30's and Carnera was still active.

Valuev would stick Carnera on the end of his jab, before knocking him out late.

janitor

04-02-2008, 05:53 PM

Carnera is less skilled, has less stamina, doesn't punch as hard, is probably slower and has a much poorer chin.

I dont think that any of those asertions can be justified to be quite honest.

Either way Carnera has more substance in terms of acomplishments in his pinky than Valuev has in his entire body......at the moment.

mr. magoo

04-02-2008, 06:02 PM

I dont think that any of those asertions can be justified to be quite honest.

Either way Carnera has more substance in terms of acomplishments in his pinky than Valuev has in his entire body......at the moment.

Two questions for you.

1. How do think Carnera would do against Ruslan Chagaev?

2. How will your rating of Valuev change should he beat Chagaev in their rematch in May?

janitor

04-02-2008, 06:06 PM

[quote=mr. magoo]Two questions for you.
1. How do think Carnera would do against Ruslan Chagaev?

I would install da Preem as a favourite at the moment. Chagev could certainly win though.

2. How will your rating of Valuev change should he beat Chagaev in their rematch in May?

If it is a clear cut win then I would be compeled to recognise him as the No2 guy in the division as of now. If he looses and never really cracks the top 5 again then he is an also ran in historic terms.

Russell

04-02-2008, 06:12 PM

You seem to hang a lot on this one fight, janitor.

He's beaten good fighters before this, and even his one loss to Ruslan was a MD.

mr. magoo

04-02-2008, 06:17 PM

[quote]

I would install da Preem as a favourite at the moment. Chagev could certainly win though.

If it is a clear cut win then I would be compeled to recognise him as the No2 guy in the division as of now. If he looses and never really cracks the top 5 again then he is an also ran in historic terms.

These are reasonable answers.

I think that both Chagaev and Valuev a lot to either gain or lose from this meeting. Ruslan has a chance to remain undefeated and hold on to a world title, hence setting himself up for future big matches. Valuev has a shot at avenging the loss and becoming a two time titlist. The one who I think is more hard pressed to win this fight is Valuev for obvious reason that he will be turning 35 this year, and should he lose a second time to Chagaev, may never again get another shot. If Ruslan loses, he at least has a few years to build himself back up.

Jack

04-02-2008, 06:44 PM

I dont think that any of those asertions can be justified to be quite honest.
See this is the problem I have. You don't think Valuev has a better chin?! Come on, now. How many times was Carnera down in his career? Has Valuev ever been hurt? You could make more of a case for Floyd Patterson having a better chin than Oliver McCall.

Valuev has the better chin.

janitor

04-03-2008, 07:15 AM

See this is the problem I have. You don't think Valuev has a better chin?! Come on, now. How many times was Carnera down in his career? Has Valuev ever been hurt? You could make more of a case for Floyd Patterson having a better chin than Oliver McCall.

Valuev has the better chin.

Valuev may well have the better chin, perhaps probably, but it is hard to judge at this stage.

Valuev has fought verry few genuine contenders while Carnera has fought a shed load, including some all time greats. World class fighters tend to start getting knocked down when they start fighting other world class fighters. Dont forgett that Sam Peter had an all time chin untill he fought Jameel McCline.

Lets wait and see.

gregor

04-03-2008, 09:12 AM

70's foreman by close UD (foreman had stamina problems)
90's foreman would lose clouse SD!
Valuev has a great chin so I don't think foreman could ko or tko him!

I am not sure Valuev chin is that good. Valuev took some good shots from his opponents, but they were nowhere close to Foreman in this aspect.

I think 70's Foreman wins by KO/TKO, I admit he had stamina problems but I don's think the fight would last that far.

IMHO 90's Foreman (before Moorer) also had a good chance to KO Valuev. Valuev defence is quite bad, and he never learned to use his size advantage, so I think Foreman would be able to land some good shots. Otherwise, if the fight goes the distance I would still go with George. His stamina (or rather pacing) got much better, and he still had somewhat better workrate than Valuev.