No Abraham vs Miranda!!!!

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Word on the streets is that Giovanni Lorenzo people are blocking the fight so that Lorenzo will take on Abraham in Germany:hat

[Tom_Tocca]

Word on the streets is that Giovanni Lorenzo people are blocking the fight so that Lorenzo will take on Abraham in Germany:hat

:rofl

There is already a thread about it - READ next time!

[booklord]

I called it!

It's all part of a vast conspiracy to drive Miranda out of his mind!

Kidding aside though (maybe) I thought Abraham planned his second mandatory after the propsed Miranda fight and before Pavlik. Since Ayala was supposed to be a mandatory defense can Lorenzo really force is very next fight to be another mandatory? ( Especially as Abraham plans to fight at 4 times this year ) If true no wonder so many belt-holders forfeit their belts.

[Tom_Tocca]

I called it!

It's all part of a vast conspiracy to drive Miranda out of his mind!

Kidding aside though (maybe) I thought Abraham planned his second mandatory after the propsed Miranda fight and before Pavlik. Since Ayala was supposed to be a mandatory defense can Lorenzo really force is very next fight to be another mandatory? ( Especially as Abraham plans to fight at 4 times this year ) If true no wonder so many belt-holders forfeit their belts.

Ayala was a voluntary defense - I still wonder why Lorenzo was appointed the mandatory without doing anything...

[BigBone]

Giovanni Lorenzo is really Abraham's mandatory? Somehow I doubt it... How the hell can he be? He never ever had one international title fight, never beat a top15 contender, never fought a title eliminator and he's only 4th at the rankings...

They can't do much anyway as Abraham would fight Miranda at a catch-weight and IBF couldn't do much since it would be a non-title fight... I think team Lorenzo is trying to put some pressure on IBF and Sauerland to earn some step-aside money and fight Abraham later... but that only works if Lorenzo is the mandatory... but how could he be the mandatory?

[Tom_Tocca]

Giovanni Lorenzo is really Abraham's mandatory? Somehow I doubt it... How the hell can he be? He never ever had one international title fight, never beat a top15 contender, never fought a title eliminator and he's only 4th at the rankings...

They can't do much anyway as Abraham would fight Miranda at a catch-weight and IBF couldn't do much since it would be a non-title fight... I think team Lorenzo is trying to put some pressure on IBF and Sauerland to earn some step-aside money and fight Abraham later... but that only works if Lorenzo is the mandatory... but how could he be the mandatory?

He is - [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[BigBone]

Thx Tom. I've already read that but that sounds fishy... I mean the rule is to make a mandatory defense every x months, but what if there's no mandatory?

The IBF should order a title eliminator and problem is solved.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

:rofl

There is already a thread about it - READ next time!

Hey come on man:twisted: the news was buried deep in that thread this news is worthy of it's own thread:nono But getting back to the subject while I think Lorenzo is a real talent and has a shot at beating The King he really should have to fight a eliminator with Sebastian Sylvester to get a title shot the title:bbb and let Abraham fight Miranda:good

[11player]

Giovani Lorenzo is WBC's #1 and WBA's #4, he is Pavlik's mandatory, not Abraham's.

Nevertheless, it's a good legit fight for Abraham and one that will clear out the way for a Pavlik vs Abraham showdown. Abraham is helping out Pavlik.

[Pantera2000]

Lorenzo IS Abraham's mandatory.
Main Events will have to approve the Miranda fight per the IBF.

No way around it. Why Lorenzo is the mandatory I can not tell you. But he is, and Main Events hold the key to allow Miranda vs Abraham II now.

[Pantera2000]

(from the scene with boxing)
After a potential May clash between Mikkel Kessler and Edison Miranda fell apart due to Kessler's withdrawal, the promoters left behind, and Showtime, tried to put together a rematch between Miranda and IBF middleweight champion Arthur Abraham for June 21.

Steve Kim of MaxBoxing reports that Pat English, attorney for New Jersey-based promotional firm Main Events, has intervened on behalf of undefeated Giovanni Lorenzo, who is due a shot at Abraham's title. Lorenzo is the highest ranked challenger according to the IBF rankings. Sebastian Sylvester is the only fighter ranked above him, but he is taking on Javier Castillejo in a WBA final eliminator on April 12, which eliminates him from the IBF equation.

According to Kim’s report, there was talk of step aside money and possible placing Lorenzo on the undercard against Raul Marquez, but the two sides were not able to come to an agreement on either.

I was under the impression that Abraham-Miranda would be fought at a catch-weight, thus making it a non-title fight. There could be a time deadline for Abraham-Lorenzo to take place and that’s probably where Lorenzo’s argument comes into play.

[jisi]

Ayala was a voluntary defense - I still wonder why Lorenzo was appointed the mandatory without doing anything...

Abraham had to fight the mandatory in April 2008.

Why alowed the IBF this voluntary defense? Sauerland is playing games. Abraham ducked Miranda and will not go to the USA to fight Miranda because Miranda was robbed in the first fight. He broke the jaw and the fight had to be stopped. TKO Loss for Abraham nothing else.

[Tom_Tocca]

Abraham had to fight the mandatory in April 2008.

Why alowed the IBF this voluntary defense? Sauerland is playing games. Abraham ducked Miranda and will not go to the USA to fight Miranda because Miranda was robbed in the first fight. He broke the jaw and the fight had to be stopped. TKO Loss for Abraham nothing else.

You have no knowledge in this case so you should stop talking about it - next time you should first talk to the people involved in and then start speculating...

[Chillman]

Abraham's last mandatory defense was against Khoren Gevor in August 2007, so I assumed the next one wasn't due until August or (Abraham's already proposed fight date) September of this year?

[booradley]

What happened to Zuniga? Why is he out of the picture? Is he now content to stay at 168 and defend his IBO trinket? It seems to me that he is not big enough to be a real force at SMW. Furthermore, I think Zuniga is one of the most under-rated, under appreciated, and under promoted guys in boxing! In my opinion if Fulgencio got a shot at Arthur Abraham, AA would only be champ for about 10 or 11 more rounds, and then it's good night Irene!

Boo

[Tom_Tocca]

What happened to Zuniga? Why is he out of the picture? Is he now content to stay at 168 and defend his IBO trinket? It seems to me that he is not big enough to be a real force at SMW. Furthermore, I think Zuniga is one of the most under-rated, under appreciated, and under promoted guys in boxing! In my opinion if Fulgencio got a shot at Arthur Abraham, AA would only be champ for about 10 or 11 more rounds, and then it's good night Irene!

Boo

I don't know about Zuniga - I also think it would be better if Lorenzo and Zuniga would determine the IBF mandatory instead of giving Lorenzo this position by default.

[Lampley]

Seeing as Abraham is nothing but a paper titlist anyway, why doesn't he tell the IBF to fuck itself and take the fight with Miranda anyway.

A victory over Edison on American soil will bring more money to a Pavlik showdown than a defense in Europe of a meaningless belt.

[Tom_Tocca]

Abraham's last mandatory defense was against Khoren Gevor in August 2007, so I assumed the next one wasn't due until August or (Abraham's already proposed fight date) September of this year?

You have to fight your mandatory every 9 months by he rules of the IBF (unless there is no mandatory, which I would think but the IBF proved otherwise with Lorenzo :-()

[Tom_Tocca]

Seeing as Abraham is nothing but a paper titlist anyway, why does he tell the IBF to fuck itself and take the fight with Miranda anyway.

A victory over Edison on American soil will bring more money to a Pavlik showdown than a defense in Europe of a meaningless belt.

Why should Sauerland fuck around with the IBF - he needs them to materialize a fight for Povetkin with Wlad...

[Lampley]

Why should Sauerland fuck around with the IBF - he needs them to materialize a fight for Povetkin with Wlad...
If you were Sauerland, would you want to toss Povetkin to the wolves like that? I see your point, but in the end, it's going to cost him more money obeying a set of arbitrary wishes, rather than taking the big money in a winnable fight for Abraham that should lead to an even bigger-money clash.

That belt holds no value outside of Germany. Everyone is talking a big game about Abraham crossing the continents to become an international star, but the actions in this case suggest a continuing protectionist strategy.

[booradley]

I don't know about Zuniga - I also think it would be better if Lorenzo and Zuniga would determine the IBF mandatory instead of giving Lorenzo this position by default.

Tom -- I haven't seen much of Lorenzo, but I've seen a lot of Zuniga. Based on what I know about the two fighters I think Zuniga is a much better and more deserving fighter. Do you agree?

I also think Abraham/Zuniga is a great fight. Zuniga is double tough, he has a great inside game, good hand speed, his KO ratio is close to 80%, and he puts out 110% in his fights. He hasn't lost since he lost a 9 round war with Pavlik. In addition he threw his name in the hat for June 7th when Duddy was cast aside. Isn't Zuniga really a better opponent to build toward a Pavlik fight than pretty much anybody else?

Boo

[booklord]

That belt holds no value outside of Germany. Everyone is talking a big game about Abraham crossing the continents to become an international star, but the actions in this case suggest a continuing protectionist strategy.

There's a chance that if Abraham doesn't keep the belt that Pavlik won't fight him and would instead go after the winner of the abandoned IBF belt. He's made noise about wanting to unify the belts. So they might hold value for him.

[Tom_Tocca]

Tom -- I haven't seen much of Lorenzo, but I've seen a lot of Zuniga. Based on what I know about the two fighters I think Zuniga is a much better and more deserving fighter. Do you agree?

I also think Abraham/Zuniga is a great fight. Zuniga is double tough, he has a great inside game, good hand speed, his KO ratio is close to 80%, and he puts out 110% in his fights. He hasn't lost since he lost a 9 round war with Pavlik. In addition he threw his name in the hat for June 7th when Duddy was cast aside. Isn't Zuniga really a better opponent to build toward a Pavlik fight than pretty much anybody else?

Boo

Of course it would be an all-action fight - though, Miranda fits the bill far more because of him having history with AA. Zuniga is nearly as unknown as Lorenzo is.

But still I'm interested in Zuniga's next steps in boxing...

[Pantera2000]

If the fight doesnt happen now and Abraham is forced to do his mandatory now, then I hear the rematch could still very well happen in Sept.

[Lampley]

There's a chance that if Abraham doesn't keep the belt that Pavlik won't fight him and would instead go after the winner of the abandoned IBF belt. He's made noise about wanting to unify the belts. So they might hold value for him.

I think Pavlik will fight the most lucrative opponents he can. If Abraham were to defeat Miranda, that would be him. There's no one out there besides him and Winky, belt or no belt.

[Pantera2000]

Of course it would be an all-action fight - though, Miranda fits the bill far more because of him having history with AA. Zuniga is nearly as unknown as Lorenzo is.

But still I'm interested in Zuniga's next steps in boxing...

Miranda vs Zuniga may happen....

[Pantera2000]

I think Pavlik will fight the most lucrative opponents he can. If Abraham were to defeat Miranda, that would be him. There's no one out there besides him and Winky, belt or no belt.

Mayorga

[Tom_Tocca]

Miranda vs Zuniga may happen....

Wow, that would be an all-action fight, too - one I would like to see if AA can't charm the IBF...

[Pantera2000]

Wow, that would be an all-action fight, too - one I would like to see if AA can't charm the IBF...

Not me. For one they are good friends, so I dont know how motivated Miranda would be to 'kill' him. Two it is not an easy fight, and little reward. But nobody else will fight Miranda. It is crazy.

[Tom_Tocca]

Not me. For one they are good friends, so I dont know how motivated Miranda would be to 'kill' him. Two it is not an easy fight, and little reward. But nobody else will fight Miranda. It is crazy.

Miranda seems to be fucked up by boxing politics recently...

[booradley]

Miranda vs Zuniga may happen....

Now here are 2 guys who will fight pretty much anybody, anytime, and anyplace. Miranda brings the power. Zuniga brings the skill. Both have a ton of heart. GREAT FIGHT! In fact it may have potential fight of the year written on it! However, I think Zuniga should drop back down to 160.

Boo

[Pantera2000]

.............

[Lampley]

Mayorga

:patsch

Unfortunately, there's some truth to that.

[Pantera2000]

:patsch

Unfortunately, there's some truth to that.

A lot!

[Rock0052]

It's gotta be frustrating in your shoes Pantera, since seemingly every fight with Edison's going to shit recently. I know I was really looking forward to seeing Miranda's next move and how he'd fare in a fight vs Kessler or an Abraham rematch. Any ideas on what EM might be trying to pursue next?

[startown81]

If the fight doesnt happen now and Abraham is forced to do his mandatory now, then I hear the rematch could still very well happen in Sept.
I really hope miranda fights before september. I look foward to his fights more then anyone elses.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

What I don't get is why Lorenzo is pushing for a fight with Abraham when he has a fight with Pavlik coming up:huh as there is more money in a Pavlik fight then Abraham:-(

[booradley]

What I don't get is why Lorenzo is pushing for a fight with Abraham when he has a fight with Pavlik coming up:huh as there is more money in a Pavlik fight then Abraham:-(

Maybe he thinks if he can beat Abraham, the pavlik fight would make an even bigger payday, or, more likely, he thinks he can beat Abraham, and get rich defending the IBF trinket and never face pav.

[Arriba]

Or perhaps he got word that that opportunity might take a while and instead of waiting for Pavlik to take on Lockett and Winky, he'll face Abraham and attempt to get a belt.

[booradley]

Or perhaps he got word that that opportunity might take a while and instead of waiting for Pavlik to take on Lockett and Winky, he'll face Abraham and attempt to get a belt.

The IBF title would help him get a fight with pavlik, and make that fight much more valuable to Pavlik who has voiced his desire to unify the titles at 160 many times.

[Odo]

You have to fight your mandatory every 9 months by he rules of the IBF (unless there is no mandatory, which I would think but the IBF proved otherwise with Lorenzo :-()


Any news,tom?

Will Abraham have to fight Lorenzo next? Done deal?

[curmudgeon]

That belt holds no value outside of Germany.

Germany is a large market and that is a whole lot of value.

[Pantera2000]

Any news,tom?

Will Abraham have to fight Lorenzo next? Done deal?

It seems there is no way to make Main Events go away, so Abraham will have no choice but to face Lorenzo next.

Miranda is still up in the air. Nobdy, I mean NOBODY will fight him. I heard their team is going to make a release with a list of fighters that turned down the fight, and none was for money reasons.
The last I heard is Zuniga might be a possibility.

[Tom_Tocca]

It seems there is no way to make Main Events go away, so Abraham will have no choice but to face Lorenzo next.

Miranda is still up in the air. Nobdy, I mean NOBODY will fight him. I heard their team is going to make a release with a list of fighters that turned down the fight, and none was for money reasons.
The last I heard is Zuniga might be a possibility.

Funny thing is that the IBF never officially named Lorenzo the mandatory and the IBF still has the power to allow AA an exception...can't believe Main Events influence here...

[Pantera2000]

Funny thing is that the IBF never officially named Lorenzo the mandatory and the IBF still has the power to allow AA an exception...can't believe Main Events influence here...

Apparently Main Evens and Sauerland had an agreement before Abraham's past fight. Pat English was ready to sue the world and it seems like the IBF went his way. Plus, dont forget, a fight with Miranda at 166lbs makes the IBF no money.

[Tom_Tocca]

Apparently Main Evens and Sauerland had an agreement before Abraham's past fight. Pat English was ready to sue the world and it seems like the IBF went his way. Plus, dont forget, a fight with Miranda at 166lbs makes the IBF no money.

I didn't know about this agreement - sounds like it we should blame Duddy for this shit :D . Hadn't he fought like a dumbass vs. Smichet we would not look no further but for Pavlik vs. Duddy and AA vs. Lorenzo on June 7 in MSG.

Duddy crushed the whole card and story.

Though we shouldn'd forget Miranda - his dreams of a big fight were shattered by no other than Mundine in combination with Danny Green. Mundine choose a bad mismatch vs. Soliman without even getting this one sanctioned only to tune-up for Green but the Machine had other ideas and retired. So as of now The Man has no choice but to face Kessler.

So in reality, boxing is the biggest soap opera of them all... :yep

[pipe wrenched]

What happened to Zuniga? Why is he out of the picture? Is he now content to stay at 168 and defend his IBO trinket? It seems to me that he is not big enough to be a real force at SMW. Furthermore, I think Zuniga is one of the most under-rated, under appreciated, and under promoted guys in boxing! In my opinion if Fulgencio got a shot at Arthur Abraham, AA would only be champ for about 10 or 11 more rounds, and then it's good night Irene!

Boo

I agree on all points 100%. :yep

[booradley]

I didn't know about this agreement - sounds like it we should blame Duddy for this shit :D . Hadn't he fought like a dumbass vs. Smichet we would not look no further but for Pavlik vs. Duddy and AA vs. Lorenzo on June 7 in MSG.

Duddy crushed the whole card and story.

I hope either Pavlik or Abraham gets this Lorenzo clown in the ring a smacks the shit out of him SOON! This asshole's last 6 opponents had 55 losses between them and he has the audacity to claim Pavlik and AA are both ducking him:patsch

Boo

[pipe wrenched]

I hope either Pavlik or Abraham gets this Lorenzo clown in the ring a smacks the shit out of him SOON! This asshole's last 6 opponents had 55 losses between them and he has the audacity to claim Pavlik and AA are both ducking him:patsch

Boo

Wow, didn't know that shit about Lorenzo!:-(

I haven't seen anything of him that I can recall, only see his name thrown around a bit in discussions.