Pac-JMM Numbers upgraded to 525K PPV!!!

[PacDbest]

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"The network's last PPV show -- the Pacquiao-Marquez rematch on March 15 -- logged some 525,000 buys, making it the highest-grossing bout in history at or below 135 pounds."

[freddy-wak]

Good Fucken News....i Hope Marquez Made Enough To Be Happy With

[MrMagic]

Oh so 525K paid to see Marquez outbox Pacman :happy

[PacDbest]

Good Fucken News....i Hope Marquez Made Enough To Be Happy With

I don't think JMM was Part of that PPV cut. I remember Pac got nothing from the 1st Morales fight.

[peter5]

Oh so 525K paid to see Marquez outbox Pacman :happy

It means "the people" know who won :deal

[PacDbest]

Oh so 525K paid to see Marquez outbox Pacman :happy

525K gets their money worth & witness what they want to see!!! The commercial ads in the sole of JMM!!!!:rofl :rofl

[MrMagic]

525K gets their money worth & witness what they want to see!!! The commercial ads in the sole of JMM!!!!:rofl :rofl
Actually, as much as I hate the Pac-huggers on here overrating his overall skills, Pacman made a fight out of it, and I was on the edge of my seat, so he contributed :good

[saul_ir34]

It was a great fight but the decision ruined it. The people know who won.
Why do you think the Paclanders dont want the rematch to happen??
Usually they ahve polls and threads about how they should fight again(before the second fight). Now +70% of them vote for Diaz instead of JMM again.

They know. JMM has beaten Pac twice now.

[peter5]

Great fight, two great fighters, worng decision, a 3rd should happen:deal

[PATSYS]

This is good news, it only means a 3rd fight is feasible.

[PacDbest]

It was a great fight but the decision ruined it. The people know who won.
Why do you think the Paclanders dont want the rematch to happen??
Usually they ahve polls and threads about how they should fight again(before the second fight). Now +70% of them vote for Diaz instead of JMM again.

They know. JMM has beaten Pac twice now.

Nope. JMM crying robbery ruined it. It's a close fight in everybodys opinion. How can he call that a robbery???

But I got JMM's respect. I want a third fight.

[MrMagic]

Pac must've made a ton of money with that number of buyers, and I believe each and every one who did buy the PPV will pay to see another fight between the two.

So, Pac should make it happend and not be a pussy and run from JMM now.

[Boom_Boom]

Would you fucking crybabies stop with it already.

God ya'll act like this shit was tito/dlh all over again.

The decision isnt controversial, nor did it make clear who the better fighter was of the two.

[PATSYS]

Would you fucking crybabies stop with it already.

God ya'll act like this shit was tito/dlh all over again.

The decision isnt controversial, nor did it make clear who the better fighter was of the two.

DLH-Mosley 2 was even more controversial IMO.

[kg0208]

Good numbers:good

[PacDbest]

Pac must've made a ton of money with that number of buyers, and I believe each and every one who did buy the PPV will pay to see another fight between the two.

So, Pac should make it happend and not be a pussy and run from JMM now.

Pac running against JMM coz he wants to fight Hatton & DLH???? Are you out of your mind????

[MrMagic]

Pac running against JMM coz he wants to fight Hatton & DLH???? Are you out of your mind????
Watch the post-fight interview and tell me he accepted JMMs invitation to a rematch

[PacDbest]

Watch the post-fight interview and tell me he accepted JMMs invitation to a rematch

Just wait... There will be a third fight. I can guarantee it. OK stop crying!!!!:hi:

[MrMagic]

Just wait... There will be a third fight. I can guarantee it. OK stop crying!!!!:hi:
I hope so, because I'd rather see JMM - Pac than any of the possible Hatton/DLH/Diaz/? fights :good

[Pimp C]

Great numbers. Boxing is back!:happy

[4Rounder]

Great freaking numbers. There is nothing stopping that leech Arum from being able to make the 3rd fight, but the fucker will probably wait until next year.

Marquez won that fight and the world of boxing knows it. :good :yep

[saul_ir34]

Nope. JMM crying robbery ruined it. It's a close fight in everybodys opinion. How can he call that a robbery???

But I got JMM's respect. I want a third fight.

Well honestly how can you not have JMMs respect???
The worst thing was the judge that had it 115-112 just like Lederman and we allknow what kind of judge that is.

One thing that suggested JMM was gonna get robbed was that going into the 12th Merchant said he had it even 6 rounds to 5 (due to the KD). The 12th clearly belonged to JMM and Merchant said it was a draw still.
I always respected Merchant and his goofy comments but that made me mad since he made it obvious it was a JMM round. It just goes to show taht as usual HBO will support whoever they can get the most money out of.

[Chert]

roach and arum already green-lighted a 3rd fight between pac and jmm but it won't be an immediate rematch like jmm wants. pac already has plans to take on d. diaz for the WBC 135 lbs title and possibly hatton @140 after this. if jmm wants a rematch, he would have to go up to 135 and wait probably until early next year as pac is still busy w/ these two other fights. in the meantime, jmm could probably fight guzman @130 or even take on either casa or campbell @135 while waiting for the 3rd pac fight.

[johnco]

Oh so 525K paid to see Marquez outbox Pacman :happy

wow, 525 K saw JMM kissed the canvass :happy :happy :happy :lol: :lol: :lol:

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[johnco]

Great freaking numbers. There is nothing stopping that leech Arum from being able to make the 3rd fight, but the fucker will probably wait until next year.

Marquez won that fight and the world of boxing knows it. :good :yep

yep JMM shold have won if he didnt execute the reverse summer dive

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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and hold the rope for dear life :lol: :good

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[PacDbest]

roach and arum already green-lighted a 3rd fight between pac and jmm but it won't be an immediate rematch like jmm wants. pac already has plans to take on d. diaz for the WBC 135 lbs title and possibly hatton @140 after this. if jmm wants a rematch, he would have to go up to 135 and wait probably until early next year as pac is still busy w/ these two other fights. in the meantime, jmm could probably fight guzman @130 or even take on either casa or campbell @135 while waiting for the 3rd pac fight.

Pac-Diaz are basically made. JMM needs to fight at Championship level on his next fight. He can't take another Jaca or 3K. He can't just take a Vacation. JMM need to fight either on of these...Valero, Guzzy, Casa, or Campbell. No more no less.

[Tito Time]

it was a draw or a slight edge to JMM.

[Chert]

i have great respect for both pac and jmm especially after their 2nd fight. they are just so evenly matched with pac being an offensive juggernaut w/ speed and power while jmm with his great counter-punching skills and textbook-perfect form. that's why pac and jmm will always have very close fights and none of them will dominate the other. i'm sure they can easily say that the toughest fights in their careers were against each other.

[PacDbest]

i have great respect for both pac and jmm especially after their 2nd fight. they are just so evenly matched with pac being an offensive juggernaut w/ speed and power while jmm with his great counter-punching skills and textbook-perfect form. that's why pac and jmm will always have very close fights and none of them will dominate the other. i'm sure they can easily say that the toughest fights in their careers were against each other.

This is the reason I want JMM to collect belts before the third fight. I want JMM to surpass what EM & MAB has done. JMM currently was a 2 division Champ, Getting the 3rd at 135 & meet Pac for the 135 unification will be the best scenario for the 3rd fight. It will be much bigger fight if it happens.

[AG11]

This is great news. Definitely helps with putting them in the ring again.

[johnco]

This is the reason I want JMM to collect belts before the third fight. I want JMM to surpass what EM & MAB has done. JMM currently was a 2 division Champ, Getting the 3rd at 135 & meet Pac for the 135 unification will be the best scenario for the 3rd fight. It will be much bigger fight if it happens.

exactly... i just have this feeling that the haters dont want pac to collect his 4th belt that no mexican has done before. It will be sickening in their stomach if pac achieved that. that will be another bragging rights for pac fans ;)
they are so scared that pac meets jmm at 135 and father time might catch jmm :lol: However, i dont see any difference. If jmm gets one belt at 135, then unification with pac will create more drama. i dont know why they are so paranoid about jmm-pac 3. as if pacs life revolve around jmm or the other way around :good l

[Chert]

actually, i think it would be his 5th belt if he wins against diaz @135. pac already has belts @ 112 (WBC), 122 (IBF), 126 (Ring) and 130 (WBC and Ring).

[johnco]

actually, i think it would be his 5th belt if he wins against diaz @135. pac already has belts @ 112 (WBC), 122 (IBF), 126 (Ring) and 130 (WBC and Ring).

i am discounting the ring at 126... good info though. :good

[kg0208]

actually, i think it would be his 5th belt if he wins against diaz @135. pac already has belts @ 112 (WBC), 122 (IBF), 126 (Ring) and 130 (WBC and Ring).

Yup....if he were to go after Casamayor, he could get his 5th belt and 4th World Title in the Lineal sense.

[Chert]

i am discounting the ring at 126... good info though. :good

i'm counting the Ring as a legit belt as pac also got the lineal championship @126 together with it. and being lineal champ is certainly a great honor when compared to the ABC belts.

[johnco]

Yup....if he were to go after Casamayor, he could get his 5th belt and 4th World Title in the Lineal sense.

thank you for the info kg... for your recollection and expertise, who are the greats that achieved that status (5 or more belts and 4 or more lineal) thanks

[smoochp]

Was that more than Jones vs Tito. Thats great numbers

[Chert]

thank you for the info kg... for your recollection and expertise, who are the greats that achieved that status (5 or more belts and 4 or more lineal) thanks

i think both pbf and dlh already have 5 belts each. i'm just not sure how many lineal championships they already won though.

[PacDbest]

Was that more than Jones vs Tito. Thats great numbers

Pac bigger than Tito & Jones??? Who could have imagined that 5 years ago????

[johnco]

i think both pbf and dlh already have 5 belts each. i'm just not sure how many lineal championships they already won though.

ok.. a disciplined pac will crack top 50 someday. he's getting there. :good

[Richel Hersisia]

these numbers are so impressive

[Morrissey]

There should be a third fight then.

[Chert]

There should be a third fight then.

i'm sure there will be. ppv numbers like this are just too irresistible even for arum.

[loui_ludwig]

Pac won the fight and square. Like their first fight, 1 has it for Pac and has it for JMM. The knockdown made the diffirence. Pac won by split decision.

As far as the 12th, JMM won that round because Pac did not do nothing. But the 11th round, Pac won it. The HBO commentators, espcially Lampley, keep saying JMM land a right, was actually hitting the gloves. Pac threw and landed more punches that JMM. JMM was hitting air and gloves instead of Pac's face. Watch the 11th round again withouth listening to Lampley and the other commentators.

I had Pac winnning, 1, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, and 11.

[kg0208]

thank you for the info kg... for your recollection and expertise, who are the greats that achieved that status (5 or more belts and 4 or more lineal) thanks
Mayweather has 6 titles in 5 weight classes, though he should have held the IBF at 130 as well (Corrales stripped before fight). However, he only has 3 World titles by most accounts (some say 2 world titles). DLH has helt like 8 titles in 6 weight classes. Only 2 or 3 lineal, I think only 2. There are only something like 9 fighters in history with 3 Lineal titles.

I am not sure anyone has ever held 4 Lineal titles. Keep in mind, they don't mean what they used to in the old days because of the multiple titles. But obviously, it is very difficult to do. It's one helluva accomplishment, one that would easily put Pacquiao in the top 50 fighters ever (for some, he resides there already)

[PH|LLA]

525K is absolutely amazing

[PacDbest]

Mayweather has 6 titles in 5 weight classes, though he should have held the IBF at 130 as well (Corrales stripped before fight). However, he only has 3 World titles by most accounts (some say 2 world titles). DLH has helt like 8 titles in 6 weight classes. Only 2 or 3 lineal, I think only 2. There are only something like 9 fighters in history with 3 Lineal titles.

I am not sure anyone has ever held 4 Lineal titles. Keep in mind, they don't mean what they used to in the old days because of the multiple titles. But obviously, it is very difficult to do. It's one helluva accomplishment, one that would easily put Pacquiao in the top 50 fighters ever (for some, he resides there already)

Research boxrec, you'll find out the Lineage. Can't you find it in your books & DVDs????:hey

[kg0208]

Research boxrec, you'll find out the Lineage. Can't you find it in your books & DVDs????:hey

Do you know what fighters held 3 or more Lineal titles?

Will Boxrec alone answer this question for you? If so, I expect to have your answer in your response. Otherwise, I suggest you stop questioning my method of learning since it is more than obvious that I know more than you.

[PacDbest]

Do you know what fighters held 3 or more Lineal titles?

Will Boxrec alone answer this question for you? If so, I expect to have your answer in your response. Otherwise, I suggest you stop questioning my method of learning since it is more than obvious that I know more than you.

Do your research!!

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Here' DLHs.

At 135 he got his title from Vacancys by Chavez. At 140 Lineal from Chavez. At 147 Lineal from Whitaker. At 154 Lineal from Castillejo I traced it back to Mugabi.

[kg0208]

Do your research!!

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Here' DLHs.

At 135 he got his title from Vacancys by Chavez. At 140 Lineal from Chavez. At 147 Lineal from Whitaker. At 154 Lineal from Castillejo I traced it back to Mugabi.
Do your research. You didn't, of course, provide the answer to my question. You can't, and I already knew you could not.

I guessed off the top of my head about DLH. I said he may had 2 or 3 but I think only 2. If I had chosen to look it up, I would have found the answer as easily as you. It was knowledge you yourself didn't possess and only gained by following my lead.

The only way you were able to find out about DLH's lineal titles at all is because I provided the name, then you went back and researched it. Without me providing you names, find out who the other fighters are besides, DLH, Mayweather, and Pacquiao who held 3 Lineal titles. Oh and Armstrong, since I provided you that name in the past.

[charlievint]

Oh so 525K paid to see Marquez outbox Pacman :happy

No Retard....525K paid to see PAC reverse the bogus decision 4 yrs ago and put on a great performance in beating JMM for a 2nd time.:happy

[charlievint]

It means "the people" know who won :deal

Exactly.....Everyone needs to get over it! PAC won....Just be happy JMM was able to make it competitive.

[charlievint]

Actually, as much as I hate the Pac-huggers on here overrating his overall skills, Pacman made a fight out of it, and I was on the edge of my seat, so he contributed :good

They both contributed and I don't know anyone overrating PACs skills...No one ever said he was a great technical boxer.....just a GREAT FIGHTER who wins.

[PacDbest]

Do your research. You didn't, of course, provide the answer to my question. You can't, and I already knew you could not.

I guessed off the top of my head about DLH. I said he may had 2 or 3 but I think only 2. If I had chosen to look it up, I would have found the answer as easily as you.

The only way you were able to find out about DLH's lineal titles at all is because I provided the name, then you went back and researched it. Without me providing you names, find out who the other fighters are besides, DLH, Mayweather, and Pacquiao who held 3 Lineal titles. Oh and Armstrong, since I provided you that name in the past.

OK!! I already know all about it. So what's new??? We already discussed it many times. Just Google & you'll find answers. You don't need your books & DVDs.

[charlievint]

It was a great fight but the decision ruined it. The people know who won.
Why do you think the Paclanders dont want the rematch to happen??
Usually they ahve polls and threads about how they should fight again(before the second fight). Now +70% of them vote for Diaz instead of JMM again.

They know. JMM has beaten Pac twice now.

Dude....why fight a 3rd time when PAC won both. There is no logic in a rematch although.....I WANT TO SEE IT. Both fights were candidate for FOTY and 3rd would be the same....unfortunately the outcome will be the same as the 2nd...a legit win for PAC.

[charlievint]

Pac won the fight and square. Like their first fight, 1 has it for Pac and has it for JMM. The knockdown made the diffirence. Pac won by split decision.

As far as the 12th, JMM won that round because Pac did not do nothing. But the 11th round, Pac won it. The HBO commentators, espcially Lampley, keep saying JMM land a right, was actually hitting the gloves. Pac threw and landed more punches that JMM. JMM was hitting air and gloves instead of Pac's face. Watch the 11th round again withouth listening to Lampley and the other commentators.

I had Pac winnning, 1, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10, and 11.

STOP ALREADY! Pac won! No need to beat a dead horse.

[kg0208]

OK!! I already know all about it. So what's new??? We already discussed it many times. Just Google & you'll find answers. You don't need your books & DVDs.
Who said I only use books and DVD's? I said they were PART of what I use. I use the internet, videos, books, whatever I can find. I use MORE than just Boxrec, which was what I and others were criticizing you for.

Stop stalling PacD. If you know all about it, who are the other fighters? This tactic of saying you already know but never answering makes you look like a liar. I already know who the fighters are. But I asked you, since you seem to question my ability to research as compared to yours. Last post PacD. Give me the answer.

BTW, you don't KNOW anything. De La Hoya did win the 154 title from Castillejo. But the Lineage doesn't go back to Mugabi, who was NEVER the 154 Lineal Champion. So again, Boxrec has failed you.

[PacDbest]

Who said I only use books and DVD's? I said they were PART of what I use. I use the internet, videos, books, whatever I can find. I use MORE than just Boxrec, which was what I and others were criticizing you for.

Stop stalling PacD. If you know all about it, who are the other fighters?

BTW, you don't KNOW anything. De La Hoya did win the 154 title from Castillejo. But the Lineage doesn't go back to Mugabi, who was NEVER the 154 Lineal Champion. So again, Boxrec has failed you.

Who said I only use boxrec??? Only you & Brooky.:yep

OK then who has the right to be called Lineal at 154 accdg to your reseach???

[kg0208]

Who said I only use boxrec??? Only you & Brooky.:yep

OK then who has the right to be called Lineal at 154 accdg to your reseach???
You said it kid. You said video was "subjective". You said boxrec gave you "the facts" and we criticized you because facts needed context. You then went to youtube and looked up the names mentioned and posted video's of the fighters to pretend like you have watched them before. But you couldn't tell us anything about them. You stalled all day before that, just like you are now.

Norris was the first Lineal 154lb champion since Hearns vacated the title.

And since you can't answer the question I asked you, I will provide it for you.

Bob Fitzsimmons – (160, 175, Heavyweight)
Tony Canzoneri – (126, 135, 140)
Barney Ross – (135, 140, 147)
Henry Armstrong – (126, 135, 147)
Emile Griffith – (147, 154, 160)
Ray Leonard – (147, 154, 160)
Oscar De la Hoya – (140, 147, 154)
Floyd Mayweather – (130, 135, 147)
Manny Pacquiao - (112, 126, 130)

[kg0208]

Instead of looking for a fight PacD, you should have just let me provide the info to your fellow Pinoy who was asking for it.

[PacDbest]

You said it kid. You said video was "subjective". You said boxrec gave you "the facts" and we criticized you because facts needed context. You then went to youtube and looked up the names mentioned and posted video's of the fighters to pretend like you have watched them before. But you couldn't tell us anything about them. You stalled all day before that, just like you are now.

Norris was the first Lineal 154lb champion since Hearns vacated the title.

And since you can't answer the question I asked you, I will provide it for you.

Bob Fitzsimmons – (160, 175, Heavyweight)
Tony Canzoneri – (126, 135, 140)
Barney Ross – (135, 140, 147)
Henry Armstrong – (126, 135, 147)
Emile Griffith – (147, 154, 160)
Ray Leonard – (147, 154, 160)
Oscar De la Hoya – (140, 147, 154)
Floyd Mayweather – (130, 135, 147)
Manny Pacquiao - (112, 126, 130)


Trace some more kid... Where did Norris get his 154 title??? Look!!! It's john Mugabi!!! Your Ego & inexperienced failed you!!! It's not Boxrec. It's you Moron!!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl

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[kg0208]

Trace some more kid... Where did Norris get his 154 title??? Look!!! It's john Mugabi!!! Your Ego & inexperienced failed you!!! It's not Boxrec. It's you Moron!!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl

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:lol::lol:

Yes, Norris got his WBC title from Mugabi. He wasn't LINEAL until he unified with the IBF champion Paul Vaden. If you trace the WBC belt back all the way, you will see that it was picked up VACANT by Duane Thomas when he beat Mugabi after Hearns had vacated it. You think the WBC title just suddenly became a lineal title?

So what were you saying about my inexperience and ego?

[PacDbest]

:lol::lol:

Yes, Norris got his WBC title from Mugabi. He wasn't LINEAL until he unified with the IBF champion.

So what were you saying?

But what I'm trying to Convey is That DLH's Lineal at 154 comes from Castillo which traces back to Norris then to Mugabi. So how could you said boxrec failed me????

I'm demonstrating how to use Boxrec to trace lineage.

[Chileno606]

Oh so 525K paid to see Marquez outbox Pacman :happy

:happy

[kg0208]

But what I'm trying to Convey is That DLH's Lineal at 154 comes from Castillo which traces back to Norris then to Mugabi. So how could you said boxrec failed me????
Again, Norris didn't get the Lineal title from Mugabi. He got the WBC title from him. Norris became LINEAL after beating Vaden years later.

Simplifying this for you in a respectful manner (something you lack), Boxrec failed you because it tells you no context. All it showed you was that this belt came from that guy, to that guy. If you had known anything about Norris, you would have known that he unified and that the unification bout was considered a restart of the vacated Lineage. But that is not listed there.....

I'm demonstrating how to use Boxrec to trace lineage.
It can be used to help trace lineage, but only if you know the context of the fights. Sometimes it won't tell you that, as I just demonstrated. If you had gone further back, you would have seen that the WBC title was vacated by Hearns breaking the Lineage. But it won't tell you how the Lineage got restarted. Historians and research elsewhere tells you that.

You could try saying "oops, I messed up" and leaving it at that. I was saying something supportive of Pacquiao, and here you are looking for a fight.

[PacDbest]

Again, Norris didn't get the Lineal title from Mugabi. He got the WBC title from him. Norris became LINEAL after beating Vaden years later.

Simplifying this for you in a respectful manner (something you lack), Boxrec failed you because it tells you no context. All it showed you was that this belt came from that guy, to that guy. If you had known anything about Norris, you would have known that he unified and that the unification bout was considered a restart of the vacated Lineage. But that is not listed there.....


It can be used to help trace lineage, but only if you know the context of the fights. Sometimes it won't tell you that, as I just demonstrated. If you had gone further back, you would have seen that the WBC title was vacated by Hearns breaking the Lineage. But it won't tell you how the Lineage got restarted. Historians and research elsewhere tells you that.

You could try saying "oops, I messed up" and leaving it at that.

Don't you know that the WBC & WBA is the oldest & most respected organization in 70-80s??? Most lineage in 50s turned into WBC & WBA. IBF is not even respected during that time. Just traced that IBF lineage?? Bunch of unknowns. As you said WBC was vacated by Hearns. So who took over??? Mugabi right?? That's why the lineage started there. What is that IBF lineage without the WBC title of Mugabi??? It will be nothing!!!

How could i messed up when I traced further back than what you did???

[kg0208]

Don't you know that the WBC & WBA is the oldest & most respected organization in 70-80s??? Most lineage in 50s turned into WBC & WBA. IBF is not even respected during that time. Just traced that IBF lineage?? Bunch of unknowns. As you said WBC was vacated by Hearns. So who took over??? Mugabi right?? That's why the lineage started there. What is that IBF lineage without the WBC title of Mugabi??? It will be nothing!!!
First off, the WBA is much older than the WBC.

And secondly, you can't restart a lineage with a vacated title. And no, Duane Thomas (to you, and unknown) got the belt by BEATING Mugabi. And by the mid 90's (actually late 80's) the IBF was one of the big 3, so your assertion is ridiculous.

You didn't trace back futher than me either. When Lineage is broken, the top fighters in the division have to fight for it to be restarted. This often means unification. Thomas picking up a vacated belt wouldn't have sufficed to restart the lineage even with a win over Mugabi because ATG Mike McCallum was the WBA champion. Any restart of Lineage would have had to involve him since he was considered every bit as good as Hearns when Hearns was champion, but Hearns was lineal because he beat Benitez.

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Get over it.

[PacDbest]

First off, the WBA is much older than the WBC.

And secondly, you can't restart a lineage with a vacated title. And no, Duane Thomas (to you, and unknown) got the belt by BEATING Mugabi. And by the mid 90's the IBF was one of the big 3, so your assertion is ridiculous.

You didn't trace back futher than me either. When Lineage is broken, the top fighters in the division have to fight for it to be restarted. This often means unification. Thomas picking up a vacated belt wouldn't have sufficed to restart the lineage even with a win over Mugabi because ATG Mike McCallum was the WBA champion. Any restart of Lineage would have had to involve him since he was considered every bit as good as Hearns when Hearns was champion, but Hearns was lineal because he beat Benitez.

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Get over it.

At the end of the day, I traced DLH's Lineage from castillejo to norris to Mugabi. Boxrec can't lie. That is all there is to it in this discussion. Nope boxrec didn't failed me!!!

[fitzgeraldz]

good for marquez and pacquiao ... this is going to pave the way for smaller fighters in mega fights ...

[kg0208]

At the end of the day, I traced DLH's Lineage from castillejo to norris to Mugabi. Boxrec can't lie. That is all there is to it in this discussion. Nope boxrec didn't failed me!!!
You failed, it failed, whatever.

[PacDbest]

You failed, it failed, whatever.

Stop Crying kid!!!:yep

[kg0208]

I'm a sore loser.
:good

Funny thing is, I feel bad for you. Even when the evidence is in front of your face, you try to find a way to deny it.

You can win the lineal title by winning the champions vacated belt.....LMAO. That's rich.

[El Presidente]

great news

[chimba]

Dang, Wonder how much PAc totaled? He his purse was triple JMMs and he's the only one with a PPV cut. somewhere near $10 million?? is teh closed circuit in Manila included?

[PacDbest]

:good

Funny thing is, I feel bad for you. Even when the evidence is in front of your face, you try to find a way to deny it.

You can win the lineal title by winning the champions vacated belt.....LMAO. That's rich.

OK you're not gonna stop crying!!!

Who's more looks more like a legit 154 lbs Unification Championship at the 1st Glance??? Mugabi-Norris or Norris-Vaden??? Vaden who??? Mugabi is one of the Top guys in that era, NOBODY KNOWS THAT VADEN!!

Norris Defending that Title he won against Mugabi with the likes of SRL & Meldrick Taylor said it all. How many times Norris defended the WBC title before the Vaden Fight??? Norris being the hunted guy by the Big names legitimized that belt as lineal. So your theory was wrong!!! Norris became Lineal not with the Vaden Fight but way before that. After he beat SRL, that fight confirms it. All he needs is beat Mugabi & SRL the two Top fighters at that time!!! Learn Kid!!!

[PacDbest]

Dang, Wonder how much PAc totaled? He his purse was triple JMMs and he's the only one with a PPV cut. somewhere near $10 million?? is teh closed circuit in Manila included?

CC in Manila was for Pac alone. that's easy $1M.

[Tencount85]

That's good. The fight was also pretty good so if they do it again it should draw the same numbers if not more.

[divac]

This is good news, it only means a 3rd fight is feasible.



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
LMAO......thats how bad some of these Pac fans wants a third match for Pac against JMM......

525K, well above any of the MAB or Morales fights, and to a scared soul like you Patsy's, a 3rd match becomes only feasible!:lol:

[kg0208]

OK you're not gonna stop crying!!!

Who's more looks more like a legit 154 lbs Unification Championship at the 1st Glance??? Mugabi-Norris or Norris-Vaden??? Vaden who??? Mugabi is one of the Top guys in that era, NOBODY KNOWS THAT VADEN!!

Norris Defending that Title he won against Mugabi with the likes of SRL & Meldrick Taylor said it all. How many times Norris defended the WBC title before the Vaden Fight??? Norris being the hunted guy by the Big names legitimized that belt as lineal. So your theory was wrong!!! Norris became Lineal not with the Vaden Fight but way before that. After he beat SRL, that fight confirms it. All he needs is beat Mugabi & SRL the two Top fighters at that time!!! Learn Kid!!!
Stop being an idiot. Mugabi vs Norris wasn't even for unification. Norris simply beat him for the WBC title. Norris actually unified the WBC and IBF titles by beating Vaden. You're too stuck on who is popular.

And even IF Norris having SRL come after his title made it the legit Lineal title, that happened AFTER he took the title from Mugabi. Mugabi himself was NEVER the Lineal champion. And Leonard was coming off over a year of layoff and was well past his prime. He wasn't anywhere near the top Jr MW in the world. Ring Magazine didn't even rate him at that weight. Again, you're too stuck on names. Having big names chase your title doesn't suddenly make it the Lineal title. Show me anything that ever lists Mugabi as the Lineal 154 champion. He wasn't even the highest ranked champion at that weight class when he had the belt. McCallum was or Jackson was.

So for the last time, you cannot win a VACANT title for the Lineal championship.

[PacDbest]

Stop being an idiot. Mugabi vs Norris wasn't even for unification. Norris simply beat him for the WBC title. Norris actually unified the WBC and IBF titles by beating Vaden. You're too stuck on who is popular.

And even IF Norris having SRL come after his title made it the legit Lineal title, that happened AFTER he took the title from Mugabi. Mugabi himself was NEVER the Lineal champion. And Leonard was coming off over a year of layoff and was well past his prime. He wasn't anywhere near the top Jr MW in the world. Ring Magazine didn't even rate him at that weight. Again, you're too stuck on names.

Then explain me why Pac become a Lineal title Holder at 130 without fighting for WBO, IBF & WBA?? This is the same case, PBF vacated that title.

[Silvermags]

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
LMAO......thats how bad some of these Pac fans wants a third match for Pac against JMM......

525K, well above any of the MAB or Morales fights, and to a scared soul like you Patsy's, a 3rd match becomes only feasible!:lol:

Divac,

If you agree on the bet you should have been banned!!!
I WANT a third fight! AND Pls pls pls stop telling me that JMM never lost!

If I will believe all what you are saying.. I lost count on the number of so called robbed fights JMM had!

That's right ... in all JMM fights! He either wins or he was robbed, correct? Simply put admitting JMM lost in not in your vocabulary..

I pity the judge in thier next fight coz it he (JMM) gets the score you want.. IT'S AUTOMATIC = judge is corrupt or jmm was simply robbed!

For you, JMM never lost... it's just a Never ending ROBBERY :patsch

[kg0208]

Then explain me why Pac become a Lineal title Holder at 130 without fighting for WBO, IBF & WBA?? This is the same case, PBF vacated that title.
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Because Pacquiao beat JMM. JMM beat Barrera, who had unified the WBC and IBF, and he beat Morales, who had ALSO unified the WBC and IBF, but had the IBF titles stripped from them. When Barrera and Morales met, it was a meeting between the top 2 fighters in the division. They restarted the Lineage. Stop arguing with me. You don't know what you're talking about.

[PacDbest]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Because Pacquiao beat JMM. JMM beat Barrera, who had unified the WBC and IBF, and he beat Morales, who had ALSO unified the WBC and IBF, but had the IBF titles stripped from them. When Barrera and Morales met, it was a meeting between the top 2 fighters in the division. They restarted the Lineage. Stop arguing with me. You don't know what you're talking about.

That's what Happened in the MUgabi-Norris & Norris SRL fight. those are the top three in that era.

[kg0208]

That's what Happened in the MUgabi-Norris & Norris SRL fight. those are the top three in that era.
Ummm.....You ever heard of Mike McCallum and Julian Jackson? You're wrong, give up. Mugabi has NEVER been regarded as highly as EITHER fighter.

When Norris won the WBC title from Mugabi (who never successfully defended it), Ring rated two other champions HIGHER than Mugabi. John David Jackson AND Rosi. You just don't know enough about the division my friend. You're going off name recognition.

[PacDbest]

Ummm.....You ever heard of Mike McCallum and Julian Jackson? You're wrong, give up. Mugabi has NEVER been regarded as highly as EITHER fighter.

I hope this Answer your question. This is the Lineage. Look at #24.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[kg0208]

I hope this Answer your question. This is the Lineage. Look at #24.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
:lol::lol:

Yes., that is the lineage of the WBC 154 lb title. NOT THE LINEAL TITLE.

You're too much. You can't be this dumb. Have I ever disputed he was the WBC champion? Of course he was....Mugabi was NEVER the Lineal champion. And winning the WBC title AFTER it was vacated by the Lineal Champion doesn't make him the lineal champion.

Emile Griffith ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (claimed title on Oct. 17, 1962, but defended just once)
Denny Moyer ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (claimed title on Oct. 20, 1962; had lost to Griffith 8/1962)
Ralph Dupas ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1963)
Sandro Mazzinghi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1963-1965)
Nino Benvenuti ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1965-1966)
Ki-Soo Kim ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1966-1968)
Sandro Mazzinghi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1968, title vacated after "NC" tko loss)
Freddie Little ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1969-1970)
Carmelo Bossi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1970-1971)
Koichi Wajima ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1971-1974)
Oscar "Shotgun" Albarado ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1974-1975)
Koichi Wajima ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1975)
Jae-Do Yuh ([Only registered and activated users can see links])(1975-1976)
Koichi Wajima ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1976)
Jose Duran ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1976)
Miguel Angel Castellini ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1976-1977)
Eddie Gazo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1977-1978)
Masahi Kudo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1978-1979)
Ayub Kalule ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1979-1981)
Sugar Ray Leonard ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (vacates title 7/81)
Thomas Hearns ([Only registered and activated users can see links])(Jun 1984 to Oct 1986, vacates title)
Terry Norris ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1995-1997)
Keith Mullings ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1997-1999)
Javier Francisco Castillejos ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1999-2001)
Oscar De La Hoya ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (2001-2003)
"Sugar" Shane Mosley ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (2003-2004)
Ronald "Winky" Wright ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (2004-2005, moves to middleweight)That is the Lineage of the 154 LB LINEAL champion.

[PacDbest]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Even Pac & PBF can't be said as a Linear. That one belongs to Valero. Ring Magazine Fuck it up.

[kg0208]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Even Pac & PBF can't be said as a Linear. That one belongs to Valero. Ring Magazine Fuck it up.
What the hell are you on about?

Listen very closely....read carefully. You are posting the lineage of the ABC belts. NOT the Lineal title. The list you just listed is the WBA Lineage. So what....Valero has never been Lineal. When Mayweather vacated, it stayed vacated because the top fighters didn't fight each other until Barrera and Moraes (who had unified 2 titles) fought. The WBA was not included. Mayweather was lineal because he beat the man who beat the man.

Never mind....you really are a no hoper.

[PacDbest]

:lol::lol:

Yes., that is the lineage of the WBC 154 lb title. NOT THE LINEAL TITLE.


You're too much. You can't be this dumb. Have I ever disputed he was the WBC champion? Of course he was....Mugabi was NEVER the Lineal champion. And winning the WBC title AFTER it was vacated by the Lineal Champion doesn't make him the lineal champion.

Emile Griffith ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (claimed title on Oct. 17, 1962, but defended just once)
Denny Moyer ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (claimed title on Oct. 20, 1962; had lost to Griffith 8/1962)
Ralph Dupas ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1963)
Sandro Mazzinghi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1963-1965)
Nino Benvenuti ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1965-1966)
Ki-Soo Kim ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1966-1968)
Sandro Mazzinghi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1968, title vacated after "NC" tko loss)
Freddie Little ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1969-1970)
Carmelo Bossi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1970-1971)
Koichi Wajima ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1971-1974)
Oscar "Shotgun" Albarado ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1974-1975)
Koichi Wajima ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1975)
Jae-Do Yuh ([Only registered and activated users can see links])(1975-1976)
Koichi Wajima ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1976)
Jose Duran ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1976)
Miguel Angel Castellini ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1976-1977)
Eddie Gazo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1977-1978)
Masahi Kudo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1978-1979)
Ayub Kalule ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1979-1981)
Sugar Ray Leonard ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (vacates title 7/81)
Thomas Hearns ([Only registered and activated users can see links])(Jun 1984 to Oct 1986, vacates title)
Terry Norris ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1995-1997)
Keith Mullings ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1997-1999)
Javier Francisco Castillejos ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (1999-2001)
Oscar De La Hoya ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (2001-2003)
"Sugar" Shane Mosley ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (2003-2004)
Ronald "Winky" Wright ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (2004-2005, moves to middleweight)That is the Lineage of the 154 LB LINEAL champion.



What happened between 1986-1995???? For 9 years there's no Lineal title holder???? Did you just made this up????

[PacDbest]

What the hell are you on about?

Listen very closely....read carefully. You are posting the lineage of the ABC belts. NOT the Lineal title. The list you just listed is the WBA Lineage. So what....Valero has never been Lineal. When Mayweather vacated, it stayed vacated because the top fighters didn't fight each other until Barrera and Moraes (who had unified 2 titles) fought. The WBA was not included. Mayweather was lineal because he beat the man who beat the man.

Never mind....you really are a no hoper.

I just discovered this, but it amazes me the The Americans controls who they want to be called Lineal.

[kg0208]

What happened between 1986-1995???? For 9 years there's no Lineal title holder???? Did you just made this up????

Hearns vacated it and the Norris unified the WBC with the IBF in 1994 after beating most of the top contenders. There are LOTS lineal titles which stay vacant for years. The HW Lineal title has been vacant since Lewis retired.

[kg0208]

I just discovered this, but it amazes me the The Americans controls who they want to be called Lineal.
Yah....no.

[PacDbest]

Yah....no.

How can PBF be called Lineal when he didn't beat Casamayor at 130???

[kg0208]

How can PBF be called Lineal when he didn't beat Casamayor at 130???
Hernandez was Lineal. Mayweather beat him. Hernandez was lineal because he beat Nelson.

[PacDbest]

Hearns vacated it and the Norris unified the WBC with the IBF in 1994 after beating most of the top contenders. There are LOTS lineal titles which stay vacant for years. The HW Lineal title has been vacant since Lewis retired.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Just look at the Lineage of this IBF title by Vaden before he fought Norris. I don't think he's the final piece to call Norris Lineal. He's Lineal way before that. That IBF was just a piece of Paper title.

[kg0208]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Just look at the Lineage of this IBF title by Vaden before he fought Norris. I don't think he's the final piece to call Norris Lineal. He's Lineal way before that. That IBF was just a piece of Paper title.
That's your opinion. And it's because you don't know who guys like Rosi (who was one of the top JMW at the time) and Pettway are. Pettway beat Rosi AND Brown. You don't know anything about them though so you don't rate them. Brown won titles at both 147 and 154.

[PacDbest]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Look at the WBA in the 80s-90s It's mess. The best lineage is the WBC with more recognizable name.

[kg0208]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Look at the WBA in the 80s-90s It's mess. The best lineage is the WBC with more recognizable name.

OMG.....

From 1982, Davey Moore, Roberto Duran, Mike McCallum, and Julian Jackson held the WBA title until 1990 (Jackson stopped Norris in 2 rounds I think). And it's a MESS to you? There are 2 ATG's on that list. In the 90's, Pazienza, Whitaker, and Vazquez are a mess?

[PacDbest]

OMG.....

From 1982, Davey Moore, Roberto Duran, Mike McCallum, and Julian Jackson held the WBA title until 1990 (Jackson stopped Norris in 2 rounds I think). And it's a MESS to you? There are 2 ATG's on that list. In the 90's, Pazienza, Whitaker, and Vazquez are a mess?

I'm taking about during the lineal Vacancys you're taking about from 1986-1995. They keep on Vacating their Title.

[kg0208]

I'm taking about during the lineal Vacancys you're taking about from 1986-1995.
No, you gave me a list of the WBA title holders and said it's lineage was a mess and the WBC lineage was better because it had more recognizable names. The WBA had great fighters holding it's belts. Perhaps you worded it incorrectly.

[PacDbest]

No, you gave me a list of the WBA title holders and said it's lineage was a mess and the WBC lineage was better because it had more recognizable names. The WBA had great fighters holding it's belts. Perhaps you worded it incorrectly.

This is what I'm talking about. How can you continue the lineage if they keep vacating it.

24 Julian Jackson ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1987 Nov 21 1990 Nov 24 V 3
25 Gilbert Dele ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1991 Feb 23 1991 Oct 1 1
26 Vinny Pazienza ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1991 Oct 1 1992 V 0
27 Julio Cesar Vasquez ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1992 Dec 21 1995 Mar 4 10
28 Pernell Whitaker ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1995 Mar 4 1995 V 0
29 Carl Daniels ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1995 Jun 16 1995 Dec 16


Compare to WBC lineage which is Vacated only by Hearns: This is the the true Lineage for the DLH's 154 belt.

18 Thomas Hearns ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1982 Dec 3 1986 V 4
19 Duane Thomas ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1986 Dec 5 1987 Jul 12 0
20 Lupe Aquino ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1987 Jul 12 1987 Oct 2 0
21 Gianfranco Rosi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1987 Oct 2 1988 Jul 8 1
22 Donald Curry ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1988 Jul 8 1989 Feb 11 0
23 Rene Jacquot ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1989 Feb 11 1989 Jul 8 0
24 John Mugabi ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1989 Jul 8 1990 Mar 31 0
25 Terry Norris ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1990 Mar 31 1993 Dec 18 10
26 Simon Brown ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1993 Dec 18 1994 May 7 1
27 Terry Norris ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (2) 1994 May 7 1994 Nov 12 0
28 Luis Santana ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1994 Nov 12 1995 Aug 19 1
29 Terry Norris ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (3) 1995 Aug 19 1997 Dec 6 6
30 Keith Mullings ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1997 Dec 6 1999 Jan 29 1
31 Javier Castillejo ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 1999 Jan 29 2001 Jun 23 5
32 Oscar De La Hoya ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 2001 Jun 23 2003 Sep 13 2

[C Money]

Great numbers for the fight anyway.:good More than Floyd dreamed of pre DLH or 2 fights ago:yep

PACDBEST? KG is deep in LINEAL knowledge, and I should know:yep :D He's clearly right about it in this case.

You should focus more on PAC's accomplishments.

AFter all? Today's lineal in an alphabet world doesnt always MAKE SENSE. At least IMO! There are far too many vacancies and some unclear discretion at times.

Pac should fight Casa LINEAL and Campbell ALPHA. How high will his numbers go?

[PacDbest]

Yah....no.

Here KG, using wiki, This is the list of world Champion accdg to Ring Magazine. You can say this is the Ring Lineage. Guess what Terry Norris was not there either. PBF was not listed at 130 either.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[kg0208]

Here KG, using wiki, This is the list of world Champion accdg to Ring Magazine. You can say this is the Ring Lineage. Guess what Terry Norris was not there either. PBF was not listed at 130 either.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
That's because the Ring didn't crown a champion from 1989 to 2001-02 (except in the HW division for just a bit into the 90's). That's why it says "discontinued" in each weight division. Mayweather and Norris won titles during this time frame.

Listen, Pacquiao is getting props here and you are trying to argue the point just to argue with me. It is what it is.

Vaden is an unknown name to you. So is Pettway and Rosi. But Rosi was one of the top 154lb fighters for years and defended that IBF belt for years (11 times). He lost it to Pettway who promptly beat Brown, a very good fighter who had split two fights with Norris. Then unbeaten Vaden beats him. Norris had been winning and losing his 154 title for years but on the way beat many of the top contenders. So when he and unbeaten Vaden got together to unify, it clearly made statement about who the best fighter in the division was. Keep in mind that had Whitaker STAYED at 154, this would not have been the case. The winner would have had to fight Whitaker. As it was, Daniels was the WBA champion after Whitaker, and Norris had already beaten him. So beating the IBF champion was enough to re establish the lineage.

[PacDbest]

That's because the Ring didn't crown a champion from 1989 to 2001-02 (except in the HW division for just a bit into the 90's). That's why it says "discontinued" in each weight division. Mayweather and Norris won titles during this time frame.

Listen, Pacquiao is getting props here and you are trying to argue the point just to argue with me. It is what it is.

I'm backing my arguments by Proof!!! What do you have??? Give me a website that state that Norris becomes a Lineal 154 champion after he beat Vaden. Then I'll admit you win the Argument!!!

[kg0208]

I'm backing my arguments by Proof!!! What do you have??? Give me a website that state that Norris becomes a Lineal 154 champion after he beat Vaden. Then I'll admit you win the Argument!!!
You haven't provided any proof on the argument PacD. None. All you have done was provide the lineage of the 3 ABC belts and then decided that you know these names so this lineage is better. I already gave you proof from a website. Here it is AGAIN. You have not provided proof of the Lineal title. Just ABC and Ring titles. Even your own proof worked against you with the Ring title (it's in black and white that Ring didn't recognize any champions from 1989 to 2001 on the link you provided, thus answering your queston)

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There's the website....so are you gonna follow through on your word?

Vaden is an unknown name to you. So is Pettway and Rosi. But Rosi was one of the top 154lb fighters for years and defended that IBF belt for years (11 times). He lost it to Pettway who promptly beat Brown, a very good fighter who had split two fights with Norris. Then unbeaten Vaden beats him. Norris had been winning and losing his 154 title for years but on the way beat many of the top contenders. So when he and unbeaten Vaden got together to unify, it clearly made statement about who the best fighter in the division was. Keep in mind that had Whitaker STAYED at 154, this would not have been the case. The winner would have had to fight Whitaker. As it was, Daniels was the WBA champion after Whitaker, and Norris had already beaten him. So beating the IBF champion was enough to re establish the lineage.

[PacDbest]

You haven't provided any proof on the argument PacD. None. All you have done was provide the lineage of the 3 ABC belts and then decided that you know these names so this lineage is better. I already gave you proof from a website. Here it is AGAIN. You have not provided proof of the Lineal title. Just ABC and Ring titles. Even your own proof worked against you with the Ring title (it's in black and white that Ring didn't recognize any champions from 1989 to 2001 on the link you provided, thus answering your queston)

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There's the website....so are you gonna follow through on your word?

Vaden is an unknown name to you. So is Pettway and Rosi. But Rosi was one of the top 154lb fighters for years and defended that IBF belt for years (11 times). He lost it to Pettway who promptly beat Brown, a very good fighter who had split two fights with Norris. Then unbeaten Vaden beats him. Norris had been winning and losing his 154 title for years but on the way beat many of the top contenders. So when he and unbeaten Vaden got together to unify, it clearly made statement about who the best fighter in the division was. Keep in mind that had Whitaker STAYED at 154, this would not have been the case. The winner would have had to fight Whitaker. As it was, Daniels was the WBA champion after Whitaker, and Norris had already beaten him. So beating the IBF champion was enough to re establish the lineage.

By Cyberboxing????:rofl :rofl :rofl When did it start as a Boxing Authority???? Was it respected or you Own the site???:rofl

[kg0208]

By Cyberboxing????:rofl :rofl :rofl When did it start as a Boxing Authority???? Was it respected or you Own the site???:rofl
Umm...Cyberboxingzone has been a known website for a VERY long time. It says more about you that you have never heard of them. And now you're a liar.
As a matter of fact, it's one of the sources Wikipedia (which you keep quoting) uses to keep track of champions.

Find me one that lists Mugabi as Lineal champion (not WBC champion).

[PacDbest]

Umm...Cyberboxingzone has been a known website for a VERY long time. It says more about you that you have never heard of them.
As a matter of fact, it's one of the sources Wikipedia (which you keep quoting) uses to keep track of champions.

I just look at the contriburing writers. I recognized one.. Pedro Fernandez:rofl The asshole from ringtalk.com.. That said it all!!!!

Find me another site which is more respectable!!!

[kg0208]

I just look at the contriburing writers. I recognized one.. Pedro Fernandez:rofl The asshole from ringtalk.com.. That said it all!!!!

Find me another site which is more respectable!!!
No. Find a website to dispute me or keep your mouthshut from now on. You post articles here from the Phillipines all the time then think people should think they are reliable sources. It is very easy to claim "I don't know who such and such is". You refuse to concede defeat even with proof (this thread has tons of it).

[lyraus]

I question the 525 000 number. This is the only article that mentions that figure and they don't make a point of saying it is an upgraded figure. I think it's probably just a mistake. Every other article I've read still states the 400 000 figure and if it was upgraded that substantially, I think there would have been more mention of it.

Still, if 525 000 is true, that's a pretty damn big number for a super featherweight fight. Hard to believe. Even 400 000 is a massive number for 130 pounders.

[PacDbest]

Umm...Cyberboxingzone has been a known website for a VERY long time. It says more about you that you have never heard of them. And now you're a liar.
As a matter of fact, it's one of the sources Wikipedia (which you keep quoting) uses to keep track of champions.

Find me one that lists Mugabi as Lineal champion (not WBC champion).

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

"Here' DLHs.

At 135 he got his title from Vacancys by Chavez. At 140 Lineal from Chavez. At 147 Lineal from Whitaker. At 154 Lineal from Castillejo I traced it back to Mugabi."

Here's what I posted in the early page. I didn't said Mugabi is the Lineal Champ. I just said I traced it back up to him coz Norris & Mugabi are teh more recognizable on the Lineage. I'm looking at the same lineage you're looking. I just gone a little deeper.

[kg0208]

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

"Here' DLHs.

At 135 he got his title from Vacancys by Chavez. At 140 Lineal from Chavez. At 147 Lineal from Whitaker. At 154 Lineal from Castillejo I traced it back to Mugabi."

Here's what I posted in the early page. I didn't said Mugabi is the Lineal Champ. I just said I traced it back up to him coz Norris & Mugabi are teh more recognizable on the Lineage. I'm looking at the same lineage you're looking. I just gone a little deeper.

You traced his 154 Lineal title back to whom? Don't play word games with me. You don't know English well enough. If anything, the only thing this thread has done is further illustrate you know very little about boxing. You said the WBA Lineage for 154 was "messed up" and had less recognizable names.....you know, like Duran, McCallum, and Jackson in the 80's and Whitaker in the 90's.

[PacDbest]

No. Find a website to dispute me or keep your mouthshut from now on. You post articles here from the Phillipines all the time then think people should think they are reliable sources. It is very easy to claim "I don't know who such and such is". You refuse to concede defeat even with proof (this thread has tons of it).

I have boxrec & Wiki & Ring as source. You have only your own Cyberboxing. How about open your book & post the content over here?? Make sure you name what book it is.:hey

[PacDbest]

You traced his 154 Lineal title back to whom? Don't play word games with me. You don't know English well enough. If anything, the only thing this thread has done is further illustrate you know very little about boxing. You said the WBA Lineage for 154 was "messed up" and had less recognizable names.....you know, like Duran, McCallum, and Jackson in the 80's and Whitaker in the 90's.

I said from 86-95!! Don't twist what I said!!! Did you read the Boxrec lineage I posted???

[kg0208]

I said from 86-95!! Don't twist what I said!!! Did you read the Boxrec lineage I posted???
Liar.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Look at the WBA in the 80s-90s It's mess. The best lineage is the WBC with more recognizable name.

[kg0208]

I have boxrec & Wiki & Ring as source. You have only your own Cyberboxing. How about open your book & post the content over here?? Make sure you name what book it is.:hey
Show me one single post you have made from any of those sources containting the words Lineal Title in them.

You haven't posted anything from Ring magazine claiming Norris won the Lineal title from Mugabi, nothing from Boxrec, nothing from Wikipedia. You have only shown his WBC title.

[PacDbest]

This thread was looking like a Porno site now with me & KG trading jab. Look at our avatar???

[hmi]

It's ok PacD. Keep on arguing with kg. I didn't even bother to read your long arguments. I just like to see kg's avatar. :D

kg, you're a one lucky bastard. :!:

[PacDbest]

Liar.

I corrected it in my next post can't you see it??? There's no question who is the Lineal in the 80s it was Hearns. When he vacated it in 1986, that's the time we are debating. Who took over??? we agree it was norris. Our dissagreement was when he was recognized as the Lineal Champ??? But your Cyberboxing won't confirms he got only after Vaden.:bbb

[PacDbest]

It's ok PacD. Keep on arguing with kg. I didn't even bother to read your long arguments. I just like to see kg's avatar. :D

kg, you're a one lucky bastard. :!:

KGs wifey will be luckier If she can have a Piece of the guy in my Avatar. Too Bad it won't happen Jinky too strict nowadays.:yep

[kg0208]

I corrected it in my next post can't you see it??? There's no question who is the Lineal in the 80s it was Hearns. When he vacated it in 1986, that's the time we are debating. Who took over??? we agree it was norris. Our dissagreement was when he was recognized as the Lineal Champ??? But your Cyberboxing won't confirms he got only after Vaden.:bbb
Actually it does. Click on his name on the link. And you didn't correct crap.

You'll see this:

1995
8 Apr Luis Santana Las Vegas, NV LDQ3
(For WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)
19 Aug Luis Santana Las Vegas, NV KO2
(Regained WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)
16 Sep David Gonzalez Las Vegas, NV KO9
(Retained WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)
16 Dec Paul Vaden Philadelphia, PA W12
(Won World & IBF, Retained WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)


And as a matter of fact, the list of the only 3 division lineal champions provided by [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), gives credit to Cyber Boxing Zone as the place to find the list of TRUE lineal Champions.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Obviously its a legit site.

[kg0208]

KGs wifey will be luckier If she can have a Piece of the guy in my Avatar. Too Bad it won't happen Jinky too strict nowadays.:yep
That was very homosexual of you. I think you're projecting your fantasies.

[huki]

blah blah Pac blah
:patsch

It's impossible to argue with this guy, people should just take him as the blind nuthugging joke that he is and stop trying to make him look at things logically. :lol:

[PacDbest]

Great numbers for the fight anyway.:good More than Floyd dreamed of pre DLH or 2 fights ago:yep

PACDBEST? KG is deep in LINEAL knowledge, and I should know:yep :D He's clearly right about it in this case.

You should focus more on PAC's accomplishments.

AFter all? Today's lineal in an alphabet world doesnt always MAKE SENSE. At least IMO! There are far too many vacancies and some unclear discretion at times.

Pac should fight Casa LINEAL and Campbell ALPHA. How high will his numbers go?

I know, Just looking at that Ring Lineage of Champions & Pac owning two at 126 & 130 with the chance of getting the 135 & 140 against Casa & Hatton which is a winnable fight. Daym what A resume Pac can have before he retires!!! I didn't even mentioned his 112 Lineal belt yet & it already looking impressive if he succeed. What if he beat PB Fat 147???? I guess there will be no doubt that he will be the P4P greatest if he accomplished that.

[PacDbest]

Actually it does. Click on his name on the link. And you didn't correct crap.

You'll see this:

1995
8 Apr Luis Santana Las Vegas, NV LDQ3
(For WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)
19 Aug Luis Santana Las Vegas, NV KO2
(Regained WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)
16 Sep David Gonzalez Las Vegas, NV KO9
(Retained WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)
16 Dec Paul Vaden Philadelphia, PA W12
(Won World & IBF, Retained WBC Jr. Middleweight Title)


And as a matter of fact, the list of the only 3 division lineal champions provided by [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), gives credit to Cyber Boxing Zone as the place to find the list of TRUE lineal Champions.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Obviously its a legit site.

Are you calling Pedro & his site legit??? I guess you own it too.:hey

[PacDbest]

That was very homosexual of you. I think you're projecting your fantasies.

Are you talking about Morals??? Ask yourself???

[kg0208]

Are you talking about Morals??? Ask yourself???

Who said anything about morals?

You idolize and worship a man, and you think others would be lucky to have him. You then make comments about those others doing or wanting what you do. It's called projection.

I can talk about the subjectivity of morals very easily. Don't confuse societal and cultural boundaries with morals.

[kg0208]

Are you calling Pedro & his site legit??? I guess you own it too.:hey
You still haven't come up with a site or anything else disputing my source on the Lineal title at 154. Because of this, I claim victory.

Is this the new tactic, claiming I own the sites? While you quote Wikipedia, a site than can be changed by the masses so the info could be put there by anyone? Watch this.........

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Click on it and read it. Then tell me that you can discredit a site that has legit boxing writers on it while using Wikipedia as a source.

[dangerousity]

I question the 525 000 number. This is the only article that mentions that figure and they don't make a point of saying it is an upgraded figure. I think it's probably just a mistake. Every other article I've read still states the 400 000 figure and if it was upgraded that substantially, I think there would have been more mention of it.

Still, if 525 000 is true, that's a pretty damn big number for a super featherweight fight. Hard to believe. Even 400 000 is a massive number for 130 pounders.


From early indications, it looks like the US pay-per-view sales for Manny Pacquiao’s win over Juan Manuel Marquez will exceed 400,000 hits – the most ever in a fight involving the Filipino icon, establishing his stature as a major player in the multi-million dollar boxing market.

Pacquaio’s adviser Michael Koncz said yesterday Top Rank chairman Bob Arum couldn’t be happier with the results.

“We’re tracking 400,000 hits right now and the figures aren’t final yet,” said Koncz. “I’m not sure if we’ll reach 500,000 but going beyond 400,000 is already a major achievement for Manny. It’s the largest pay-per-view audience for any of his fights, more than his three bouts with (Erik) Morales and two with (Marco Antonio) Barrera.”

The 400,000 hits translate to $20 million in revenues with Pacquiao to get a share of at least $2 million added to his guaranteed purse of over $5 million. The gate of over 11,000 fans kicked in income of $3.3 million.

The 400k was an estimate, they said it was gonna exceed it and never ruled out the posibility of it reaching 500k. Could be a mistake but I doubt it.

[PacDbest]

You still haven't come up with a site or anything else disputing my source on the Lineal title at 154. Because of this, I claim victory.

Is this the new tactic, claiming I own the sites? While you quote Wikipedia, a site than can be changed by the masses so the info could be put there by anyone? Watch this.........

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Click on it and read it. Then tell me that you can discredit a site that has legit boxing writers on it while using Wikipedia as a source.

Daym!! KG is desperate!! He's sabotaging wiki!!!!

[kg0208]

Daym!! KG is desperate!! He's sabotaging wiki!!!!

The site is SUPPOSED to be edited by the public. Thus my point. Since you have nothing else but insults and bravado, we're done here.

[PH|LLA]

take your dispute to pm

[MrMagic]

What happened between 1986-1995???? For 9 years there's no Lineal title holder???? Did you just made this up????

The LINEAL TITLE, youre clearly confused, youre talking about the ABC's and that there has to be a LINEAL TITLE HOLDER every year? you're wrong.

[PacDbest]

The site is SUPPOSED to be edited by the public. Thus my point. Since you have nothing else but insults and bravado, we're done here.

We're not done!! I'll make it clear for you.

We started with the question "Is DLH a Lineal 154 Champ" I said I traced the lineage down to Mugabi. Which is right is you really know the meaning of Lineal. Lineal is the line of Succession of titles. Without Mugabi, You can't call Norris a Champ.

-Hearns Vacated the universally recognized Championship in 84.

- IBF Got their Champ with 2 nobodys with Drayton & Santos.
- WBC got their Champ with Mugabi(who just fought Hagler for 11rds at 160) & Thomas(Who has a win against Kalambay)in Dec 86.
- WBO got their Champ with Jackson & Aquino in 1988(too late to be called legit)
- WBA got their Champ after Duran vacated the title with Mccalum-Mannion in 84- but lost this lineage when Mccalum Vacated.

Just looking at the Picture you can see that WBC is the most Credible Championship. WBC also has the longest succession up to DLH.

One more thing about why there's no merit with that IBF belt from Vaden. He got it from Pettway. Pettway got it from Rosi who is the more Legit among the Holders & the longest reigning. But before Rosi got a shot at IBF title, He just recently lost to the WBC Champ Curry. So if you follow the Lineage WBC still comes up on top. It means that the WBC Champ already Owned the best Champ that IBF got in Rosi during Curry's reign.

Here's Rosi's record for your reference.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Here's WBC's unbroken succession:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]


As to when it was recognized as a true 154 Championship. That never Happened with the Norris-Vaden Fight. it was only a title Unification. Norris need the WBA belt to be recognized but it never happened coz the WBA champ keep on vacating & moving in weight. It was only recognized when DLH beat Vargas for the true Unification. thus the Ring recognized DLH as the Champ. But if your talking about Lineal, Norris is part of it & Mugabi is also a part of the succession. So my former statement are true!!!

[kg0208]

We're not done!! I'll make it clear for you.

We started with the question "Is DLH a Lineal 154 Champ" I said I traced the lineage down to Mugabi. Which is right is you really know the meaning of Lineal. Lineal is the line of Succession of titles. Without Mugabi, You can't call Norris a Champ.

-Hearns Vacated the universally recognized Championship in 84.

- IBF Got their Champ with 2 nobodys with Drayton & Santos.
- WBC got their Champ with Mugabi(who just fought Hagler for 11rds at 160) & Thomas(Who has a win against Kalambay)in Dec 86.
- WBO got their Champ with Jackson & Aquino in 1988(too late to be called legit)
- WBA got their Champ after Duran vacated the title with Mccalum-Mannion in 84- but lost this lineage when Mccalum Vacated.

Just looking at the Picture you can see that WBC is the most Credible Championship. WBC also has the longest succession up to DLH.

One more thing about why there's no merit with that IBF belt from Vaden. He got it from Pettway. Pettway got it from Rosi who is the more Legit among the Holders & the longest reigning. But before Rosi got a shot at IBF title, He just recently lost to the WBC Champ Curry. So if you follow the Lineage WBC still comes up on top. It means that the WBC Champ already Owned the best Champ that IBF got in Rosi during Curry's reign.

Here's Rosi's record for your reference.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Here's WBC's unbroken succession:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]


As to when it was recognized as a true 154 Championship. That never Happened with the Norris-Vaden Fight. it was only a title Unification. Norris need the WBA belt to be recognized but it never happened coz the WBA champ keep on vacating & moving in weight. It was only recognized when DLH beat Vargas for the true Unification. thus the Ring recognized DLH as the Champ. But if your talking about Lineal, Norris is part of it & Mugabi is also a part of the succession. So my former statement are true!!!
Even more clear you don't know how a lineal title is won.