Ali interview tidbit LOL

[JohnThomas1]

Young Muslim: Who would you like to fight now?

Muhammad Ali: Joe Frazier

Lonnie Ali: Yep, that Ali-Frazier thing don't ever end, does it Muhammad?
[At this point in interview, Muhammad Ali falls asleep and starts snoring]

Lonnie Ali: Don't be offended. Because of his illness, he gets tired very easily and falls asleep. He also has flashbacks to the Frazier fight and starts punching in his sleep. [Muhammad Ali punches the air as he continues to snore. Suddenly, he lunges at me and shouts, "Boo!" I nearly fall out of my chair in surprise]
Shahin: You set me up

Lonnie Ali: Whenever he starts snoring, it's my cue to talk about his flashbacks to the Frazier fight. He did the same trick on the Sixty Minutes show.

:rofl

[red cobra]

Don't you know that the main reason that Ali is like he is today is primarily because of the punishment he took from Joe Frazier? Frazier perhaps more than anyone, he tok more sustained punishment from Frazier than anyone. Harder and more sustained punishment than from Norton, Foreman, Shavers, you name them. Sure, none of the other punches he took from all the other guys didn't do him any good, and added to the end result, but it was Frazier whose punishment really took it's toll. Frazier may have lost two out of three from Ali, and it may be said that history has been a bit unkind to Joe, particularly all the latter day opinions of all of today's "experts" and fans in general, who just pick a modern or historical heavyweight at random and have him a knockout winner over Frazier. The toll of punishment delivered by both men, Ali and Frazier, in their three bout series really ruined both of them, but particularly Ali. The Thrilla in Manilla get played "ova and ova and ova again" ad nauseum, but it's really unfair to Joe Frazier that the FIRST one, The Fight of the Century, NEVER sees the light of day, probably to the delight of the Ali nut huggers and worshippers. It would really boost Joe's stock today and be a reminder to today's "experts" of Joe Frazier's great moment in the sun as the real, legitimate winner of that fight, and how determined, relentless and great he looked in doing so.

[JohnThomas1]

Yes, i know all that as does most everyone. I just found Ali's [I]trick[I] very very amusing which is why i posted this. I did not know of it (the trick)

[PowerPuncher]

Don't you know that the main reason that Ali is like he is today is primarily because of the punishment he took from Joe Frazier? Frazier perhaps more than anyone, he tok more sustained punishment from Frazier than anyone. Harder and more sustained punishment than from Norton, Foreman, Shavers, you name them. Sure, none of the other punches he took from all the other guys didn't do him any good, and added to the end result, but it was Frazier whose punishment really took it's toll. Frazier may have lost two out of three from Ali, and it may be said that history has been a bit unkind to Joe, particularly all the latter day opinions of all of today's "experts" and fans in general, who just pick a modern or historical heavyweight at random and have him a knockout winner over Frazier. The toll of punishment delivered by both men, Ali and Frazier, in their three bout series really ruined both of them, but particularly Ali.

Disagree, Foreman had Ali out cold on his feet many times according to Ali himself. Shavers hit him flush with HUGE shots seriously hurting Ali, Norton landed so many times on Ali.

And afterall Ali wasnt shot after the first Frazier fight it took many more punches to do him in

[JohnThomas1]

You didn't miss the point and think Ali's nightmares of Frazier and punching in his sleep were real did you? It was all a joke.

[red cobra]

You didn't miss the point and think Ali's nightmares of Frazier and punching in his sleep were real did you? It was all a joke.
No, I realize it was his joke, but that's not seeing the forest for the trees, as I'm referring to the pathetic condition that Ali is in. And again, it's acknowledged that Ali ook some heavy shots from Foreman, Shavers and Norton, but none of them contributed to the state of Ali's health IMO as Frazier. He punished Ali far more than those other guys did. If Ali had never fought Joe Frazier, he would be one of the most active wits in the world today, and probably would be urged to run for President or something.

[Vantage_West]

Disagree, Foreman had Ali out cold on his feet many times according to Ali himself. Shavers hit him flush with HUGE shots seriously hurting Ali, Norton landed so many times on Ali.

And afterall Ali wasnt shot after the first Frazier fight it took many more punches to do him inwell there are 2 belifs.
punch drunkness is caused by major single shots or small multiple shots.

frazier made ali look like a chelsea drunk in the 11th round of the first fight.

if so i would go for frazier on both counts.:good

[JohnThomas1]

No, I realize it was his joke, but that's not seeing the forest for the trees, as I'm referring to the pathetic condition that Ali is in. And again, it's acknowledged that Ali ook some heavy shots from Foreman, Shavers and Norton, but none of them contributed to the state of Ali's health IMO as Frazier. He punished Ali far more than those other guys did. If Ali had never fought Joe Frazier, he would be one of the most active wits in the world today, and probably would be urged to run for President or something.

No worries, but we are on different tangents. I posted this for a mild laff as i found it funny. We all know the other jazz. I thought Ali's joke a classic.

Ali's health is actually all speculation too. We don't know which punch or selection of punches did the damage, if indeed it was a punch at all.

[Addie]

Don't you know that the main reason that Ali is like he is today is primarily because of the punishment he took from Joe Frazier? Frazier perhaps more than anyone, he tok more sustained punishment from Frazier than anyone. Harder and more sustained punishment than from Norton, Foreman, Shavers, you name them. Sure, none of the other punches he took from all the other guys didn't do him any good, and added to the end result, but it was Frazier whose punishment really took it's toll. Frazier may have lost two out of three from Ali, and it may be said that history has been a bit unkind to Joe, particularly all the latter day opinions of all of today's "experts" and fans in general, who just pick a modern or historical heavyweight at random and have him a knockout winner over Frazier. The toll of punishment delivered by both men, Ali and Frazier, in their three bout series really ruined both of them, but particularly Ali. The Thrilla in Manilla get played "ova and ova and ova again" ad nauseum, but it's really unfair to Joe Frazier that the FIRST one, The Fight of the Century, NEVER sees the light of day, probably to the delight of the Ali nut huggers and worshippers. It would really boost Joe's stock today and be a reminder to today's "experts" of Joe Frazier's great moment in the sun as the real, legitimate winner of that fight, and how determined, relentless and great he looked in doing so.

I'm a self confessed Ali "nuthugger" as you put it, and although I take your points on Frazier, Ali was more significant in the media, more significant in the sport, a better athlete, a greater figher, and achieved a hell of a lot more than Joe Frazier ever did. Therefore, on that basis, I'm not surprised he gets all the limelight and Frazier doesn't.

Hardcore fans though, they acknowledge everybody. They are the only people who really matter from a boxing standpoint.

[punchy]

Obviously his brain is still working well though.

[mcvey]

Yes, i know all that as does most everyone. I just found Ali's [I]trick[I] very very amusing which is why i posted this. I did not know of it (the trick)
Good stuff John! I dont think you rated that lecture!

[JohnThomas1]

Good stuff John! I dont think you rated that lecture!

Thanks mate, cheers. What got me the most was that even in the reading, i had been taken in and was thinking damn man, that's just freaky hahahaha. Thankfully he wasn't here to gimmee the boo :lol:

[Manassa]

Don't you know that the main reason that Ali is like he is today is primarily because of the punishment he took from Joe Frazier? Frazier perhaps more than anyone, he tok more sustained punishment from Frazier than anyone. Harder and more sustained punishment than from Norton, Foreman, Shavers, you name them. Sure, none of the other punches he took from all the other guys didn't do him any good, and added to the end result, but it was Frazier whose punishment really took it's toll. Frazier may have lost two out of three from Ali, and it may be said that history has been a bit unkind to Joe, particularly all the latter day opinions of all of today's "experts" and fans in general, who just pick a modern or historical heavyweight at random and have him a knockout winner over Frazier. The toll of punishment delivered by both men, Ali and Frazier, in their three bout series really ruined both of them, but particularly Ali. The Thrilla in Manilla get played "ova and ova and ova again" ad nauseum, but it's really unfair to Joe Frazier that the FIRST one, The Fight of the Century, NEVER sees the light of day, probably to the delight of the Ali nut huggers and worshippers. It would really boost Joe's stock today and be a reminder to today's "experts" of Joe Frazier's great moment in the sun as the real, legitimate winner of that fight, and how determined, relentless and great he looked in doing so.

My aunt has Parkinson's and she never took a punch in her life.

[mcvey]

My aunt has Parkinson's and she never took a punch in her life.
So did Nijinsky the famous ballet dancer ,Katherine Hepurn,and Michael J Fox, does that mean Ali's condition isn't directly attributable to boxing ? Ferdie Pacheco thought it was.Any way are you sure your Aunt didnt box? Probably got loads of posters and scrap books in the attic ,with all her fight clippings.

[Manassa]

So did Nijinsky the famous ballet dancer ,Katherine Hepurn,and Michael J Fox, does that mean Ali's condition isn't directly attributable to boxing ? Ferdie Pacheco thought it was.Any way are you sure your Aunt didnt box? Probably got loads of posters and scrap books in the attic ,with all her fight clippings.

Very funny, well done.

I don't think anyone should relate Muhammad Ali's illness with boxing one hundred percent; he might have just been a boxer who happened to develop Parkinson's disease regardless of exposure to head trauma.

[Sonny's jab]

Yeah, I saw Ali do something similar in David Frost interview around 2002. I dont think his wife did the Joe Frazier routine, but I remember Frost asking her what he should do, Ali just "fell asleep" on him mid-interview. It's good how Ali can make his illness into a joke, and a joke on OTHER people at that ! :lol:

As for whose punches did the damage, Ali sparred thousands of rounds in training where he'd just let young fighters wail away on him. Could be a factor.

[freelaw]

I don't think anyone should relate Muhammad Ali's illness with boxing one hundred percent; he might have just been a boxer who happened to develop Parkinson's disease regardless of exposure to head trauma.

Ali himself was quoted as saying that his disease was given to him by God to teach him that he was wrong in claiming that he's the greatest because God is the the greatest, not him.

And that happens to be the same thing that Frazier said about Ali's condition.

They both definitely sounded serious to me and I admit that I seriously think that there is lots of truth in these words..

[yancey]

Don't you know that the main reason that Ali is like he is today is primarily because of the punishment he took from Joe Frazier? Frazier perhaps more than anyone, he tok more sustained punishment from Frazier than anyone. Harder and more sustained punishment than from Norton, Foreman, Shavers, you name them. Sure, none of the other punches he took from all the other guys didn't do him any good, and added to the end result, but it was Frazier whose punishment really took it's toll. Frazier may have lost two out of three from Ali, and it may be said that history has been a bit unkind to Joe, particularly all the latter day opinions of all of today's "experts" and fans in general, who just pick a modern or historical heavyweight at random and have him a knockout winner over Frazier. The toll of punishment delivered by both men, Ali and Frazier, in their three bout series really ruined both of them, but particularly Ali. The Thrilla in Manilla get played "ova and ova and ova again" ad nauseum, but it's really unfair to Joe Frazier that the FIRST one, The Fight of the Century, NEVER sees the light of day, probably to the delight of the Ali nut huggers and worshippers. It would really boost Joe's stock today and be a reminder to today's "experts" of Joe Frazier's great moment in the sun as the real, legitimate winner of that fight, and how determined, relentless and great he looked in doing so.

Agreed.

[Manassa]

Ali himself was quoted as saying that his disease was given to him by God to teach him that he was wrong in claiming that he's the greatest because God is the the greatest, not him.

And that happens to be the same thing that Frazier said about Ali's condition.

They both definitely sounded serious to me and I admit that I seriously think that there is lots of truth in these words..

Load of shit I reckon.

[freelaw]

Load of shit I reckon.

It's not like an allmighty bearded old man had punished Ali with a thunder from the sky to revenge because he felt offended by his words..

Try to look at it this way:

Ali was so overwhelmed by belief that he's the greatest that he wouldn't quit in a fight even when he felt that he was close to DEATH. He just couldn't accept that he is not superman - he was denying almost every sign of weekness in him (like aging before Holmes or Berbick) which led him to take huge amounts of punishment during his way too long career. That alone is one possible explonation of his disease.

Besides who really knows if the roots of Parkinson's disease are not, at least in part psychological..

IMO Ali had a tendency to reject compulsively any kind of critisism, any idea that didn't fit his perfect imagination of himself. The stronger such tendency is the bigger is the stress with that you have to live every day - cause nobody's perfect and when you try to believe and convince others that you are, you live in constant fear that it will turn out that you aren't.. Can't it after years, at least in part, cause some physical disorder with nervously-like shaking hands..?

I don't know for certain. It's just my feeling which I believe is similar to the one that Ali had when he said what he said. It's like being punished by the forces of nature for being unrealistically confident..

And I'm not trying to offend Muhammad. By no means. I love the man and wish him the best.

[PhillyPhan69]

I'm a self confessed Ali "nuthugger" as you put it, and although I take your points on Frazier, Ali was more significant in the media, more significant in the sport, a better athlete, a greater figher, and achieved a hell of a lot more than Joe Frazier ever did. Therefore, on that basis, I'm not surprised he gets all the limelight and Frazier doesn't.

Hardcore fans though, they acknowledge everybody. They are the only people who really matter from a boxing standpoint.

Good points..but when they were both at thier best (or very close!)...Frazier was just a little bit better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Manassa]

It's not like an allmighty bearded old man had punished Ali with a thunder from the sky to revenge because he felt offended by his words..

Try to look at it this way:

Ali was so overwhelmed by belief that he's the greatest that he wouldn't quit in a fight even when he felt that he was close to DEATH. He just couldn't accept that he is not superman - he was denying almost every sign of weekness in him (like aging before Holmes or Berbick) which led him to take huge amounts of punishment during his way too long career. That alone is one possible explonation of his disease.

Besides who really knows if the roots of Parkinson's disease are not, at least in part psychological..

IMO Ali had a tendency to reject compulsively any kind of critisism, any idea that didn't fit his perfect imagination of himself. The stronger such tendency is the bigger is the stress with that you have to live every day - cause nobody's perfect and when you try to believe and convince others that you are, you live in constant fear that it will turn out that you aren't.. Can't it after years, at least in part, cause some physical disorder with nervously-like shaking hands..?

I don't know for certain. It's just my feeling which I believe is similar to the one that Ali had when he said what he said. It's like being punished by the forces of nature for being unrealistically confident..

And I'm not trying to offend Muhammad. By no means. I love the man and wish him the best.

What you're saying is fair, but has more to do with human nature and psychology than a higher being, I would think.

[freelaw]

What you're saying is fair, but has more to do with human nature and psychology than a higher being, I would think.
Maybe.. I meant that a higher being works in the forces of nature. To me, to say that God gave it to Ali is much like saying that nature gave it to him cause he was living against her laws.

Anyway.. I'm glad you basically understand me now. :good

[Addie]

Good points..but when they were both at thier best (or very close!)...Frazier was just a little bit better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Ali was at his best he was the best Heavyweight of all time. Make no mistake about that.

[cuchulain]

Good points..but when they were both at thier best (or very close!)...Frazier was just a little bit better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No.

He wasn't.

BTW, they never met when they were both at their best.

[Bokaj]

Good points..but when they were both at thier best (or very close!)...Frazier was just a little bit better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frazier lost against the best version of Ali he met (in 1974), and that was an Ali somewhat past his prime.

Anyway, the qualities that many admire in Frazier (his no-nonsense approach and matter of factness "just a man doing his job") are exactly those that deny him the status of an icon for the great masses. Had he been more flawed (like Tyson for example) he would probably also be more famous. As it is, he seems to be universally admired by those who know boxing though, and for a pro boxer that should be something to be proud of. So I don't really feel that he's been sold short, even though he himself might believe so.

[PhillyPhan69]

Frazier lost against the best version of Ali he met (in 1974), and that was an Ali somewhat past his prime.

Anyway, the qualities that many admire in Frazier (his no-nonsense approach and matter of factness "just a man doing his job") are exactly those that deny him the status of an icon for the great masses. Had he been more flawed (like Tyson for example) he would probably also be more famous. As it is, he seems to be universally admired by those who know boxing though, and for a pro boxer that should be something to be proud of. So I don't really feel that he's been sold short, even though he himself might believe so.

Oh I see...Ali was in his prime....then was barred from boxing....then he was horrible the night he fought frazier, way out of his prime and then 2 years later rediscovered the magic...I should have known!

[groove]

Ali was great the nite he fought Frazier and did great to beat Quarry and Bonavena after such a long lay-off. But pre-layoff Ali beats them all more easily. The difference between 1966 Ali and 1970 Ali is huge. Where do i start? Footwork, Accuracy, Combinations, Conditioning, Timing, Distance.........1974 Ali was better than 1970/1 version in all the above. 1974 Ali beats 1971 Ali and 1966/7 Ali beats them all.

[Bokaj]

That's more or less how I see it as well. I wouldn't call the difference "huge", because Ali's punching was still very sharp in FOTC, but his movement just wasn't the same. He stood right in front of Frazier or leaned against the ropes, and that he wouldn't have done 4 years earlier. But the Ali Frazier beat in 1971 was still very good, and Frazier put in a classic perfomance. No doubt about it.

But Ali was no more in his prime in that fight than Tyson was when he met Holyfield in 1996.