Info that shows us boxing is truly the best at punching

[gregsid]

"Data collected in Manchester suggests Ricky Hatton is capable of landing a right-handed punch with around 400kg - nearly half a ton of instantaneous force behind it.
That's ten times more instantaneous force than an average person with no boxing expertise is capable of generating."

400kg calculated into PSI is over 5700 PSI for his stand-up right hand. Thats almost 2 times stronger than the stand-up punch of MMA fighter Randy Couture (considered one of the best MMA fighters) who clocked in his right hand at 500lbs (3214 PSI) and let me remind you that Randy weighs in at 228lbs and Ricky is 140-150lbs. Just shows what kinda of level top ranking boxers are at and how much damage we really can take. Have you ever wondered why we use so much padding on our gloves and hands? Well now you know lol.
Ricky's first punch on the impact sensor broke the sensor and made it give a false reading. Don't forget that these are the same sensors used in crash tests.

Just thought this was some interesting info.

[Melbourneborn]

Hmm.. "That's ten time more instantaneous force than an average person with no boxing expertise is capable of generating."

"Thats over 11 times stronger then the stand-up punch of MMA fighter Randy Couture..."

I'm the first to say compared with boxers, MMA fighters have really reduced boxing skills (obviously as a result of the need to train in so many different skill sets as opposed to one for boxing), but that infers your average-Joe hits about as hard as Randy Couture. I wouldnt mind seeing a source and seeing how legit these measurements, and the research over all, is.

[gregsid]

Hmm.. "That's ten time more instantaneous force than an average person with no boxing expertise is capable of generating."

"Thats over 11 times stronger then the stand-up punch of MMA fighter Randy Couture..."

I'm the first to say compared with boxers, MMA fighters have really reduced boxing skills (obviously as a result of the need to train in so many different skill sets as opposed to one for boxing), but that infers your average-Joe hits about as hard as Randy Couture. I wouldnt mind seeing a source and seeing how legit these measurements, and the research over all, is.
This tells how hard Randy punches.
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There equipment measures Randy at 500lbs/square inch.

This shows Ricky Hattons results.
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Another interesting quote from that article.
"Measuring the forces applied in football studies, the team also worked out that Hatton's average punching force is more than twice the kicking force of a Premier League footballer."

Also in the video they mention how a one of the MMA fighters kicks compressed the dumbys chest in 2.7 inches. It was recorded that Rocky Marciano punch compressed his opponents chest 2-2.5 inches.

**Edit**
I miss read Randy's Punch. It clocked in at 500lbs, which is 225kg and 3214 PSI. Even still, a heavy weight MMA fighter punches at half the strengh of a Welterweight boxer.

[Melbourneborn]

Cheers for extra information - makes sense now. Pretty interesting stuff.

[Diomedes]

Very interesting stuff. However, I'll point out that the first in that series of youtube vids features Bas Rutten demonstrating more respectable power.

C_4IskYZurg

Bas scores 941 lb, not amazingly greater than Hatton's 880 or so, but also not eleven times less, or half as powerful or whatever. He scored similarly to the heavyweight boxer they had test as well (no idea who it was, probably a nobody). With Hatton's weight training, I'm not surprised he's that powerful.

[RDJ]

Very interesting information.

[Rakim]

I'd love to measure my punch. I could probably get the sensors and stuff from work, I don't think it'd take too long to bodge together.

[AK-47]

I wonder how much tyson would clock up

[gregsid]

Very interesting stuff. However, I'll point out that the first in that series of youtube vids features Bas Rutten demonstrating more respectable power.

C_4IskYZurg

Bas scores 941 lb, not amazingly greater than Hatton's 880 or so, but also not eleven times less, or half as powerful or whatever. He scored similarly to the heavyweight boxer they had test as well (no idea who it was, probably a nobody). With Hatton's weight training, I'm not surprised he's that powerful.

Yeah, I looked up that Heavyweight boxer they used. He had a total a 3 professional fights back in the late 1980's and hasn't boxed since.
Kinda sad that Bas Rutten couldn't punch harder than a no name heavyweight who hasn't boxed in over 15 years. And Bas Rutten only had 30 PSI more than Hatton who weighs 50-55 lbs less. I don't even want to know who someone like Tyson or any other great heavyweight was capable of.

[elTerrible]

Over 5000 psi would crush most concrete mixes. (well that is constant force, Instantenous force by an impact is different and something that I havent really studied much)

Martial artists breaking hollow cinder blocks is a bit decieving as the material is very weak in tension and the hollow parts means the blocks are put in bending which will have tensile stresses. 5700 psi is stronger than most concrete compression strenghts, meaning it would break a solid concrete slab that is fully supported on the other side.


The comparison with Randy Couture would only be valid if they were both tested on the same machine.

[Diomedes]

Yeah, I looked up that Heavyweight boxer they used. He had a total a 3 professional fights back in the late 1980's and hasn't boxed since.
Kinda sad that Bas Rutten couldn't punch harder than a no name heavyweight who hasn't boxed in over 15 years. And Bas Rutten only had 30 PSI more than Hatton who weighs 50-55 lbs less. I don't even want to know who someone like Tyson or any other great heavyweight was capable of.

You're trying too hard to use this as some sort of anti-MMA thing. Our sample size here is ridiculously small, and you should know that punch power varies hugely even within the same weight category.

Additionally, in an actual match you're enver going to be able to punch something as hard as you do a stationary object in laboratory conditions. This study measures punch force in a different way, but shows that punches thrown in matches do not match up with laboratory testing in terms of power.

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Mean punch forces delivered ranged from 866.6 N (Super Middleweight) to 1149.2 N (Light Middleweight) across the fights and was not significantly correlated with boxer’s weight.

Interestingly, you'll note that punch force wasnt significantly corelated with weight. However, although the sample size is a bit better than simply using Ricky Hatton vs Bas Rutten in lab settings, it's still a small sample - 12 boxers in 6 pro matches.

Just looked it up, and 1 newton = 0.224808943 lb of force, so the punches ranged in force from 194 lb to 258 lb. Basically a quarter of what Hatton or Bas get in lab settings.

Some more info - unfortunately, second hand, but it is referenced, if somewhat sloppily.

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There has been some talk lately of how tough ot how weak the human body is. There have been studies done on this by the SAE ( Society of Automotive Engineers). There have been also many studies done on how much force a boxer ( for example) can hit with.
The latest:
By King at Wayne University:
Boxers can hit with an average force of 765 lbs

The study was done on amateures and pro's, not much of a diffrence in punching power, although alot of difference in terms of stamina ( makes sense). As for the rating, force when applied to impact is measured as peak force of lbs or Newtons, it is not meaured per sq inch or such, that applies to pressure, not impact. It can also be meaured in J or Joules, I t converted them all to lbs to make it easier.

The boxers weighed in at various weights of course, the hightest values found were those who had the best combination of size and speed.
I believe the highest was actually 1200lbs and the boxer weighed 180lbs.
As for where you canget this info:
Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE)
4 vol, about 300 us each.
Biomechanics of impact injury and injury tolerances.

Here's another study:

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This one measured 7 elite, 8 intermediate, and 8 novice boxers for punching power. Unfortunately, it doesnt say (in the abstract at least, I dont have access to the rest) what weight category they were at.

For the elite, intermediate and novice groups, respectively, the maximal straight punching forces (mean ± sx ¯ ) were 4800 ± 227 N, 3722 ± 133 N and 2381 ± 116 N for the rear hand, and 2847 ± 225 N, 2283 ± 126 N a d 1604 ± 97 N for the lead hand.

Just converting the rear hand figures to keep things simple, we get:

Elite: 1079 lb
Intermediate: 836 lb
Novice: 535 lb

Another one:
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Seven Olympic boxers from five weight classes delivered 18 straight punches to the frangible face of the Hybrid III dummy.

Results: Punch force averaged 3427 (standard deviation (SD) 811) N, hand velocity 9.14 (SD 2.06) m/s, and effective punch mass 2.9 (SD 2.0) kg. Punch force was higher for the heavier weight classes, due primarily to a higher effective mass of the punch.

The average punch force converted to pounds is 770 lb.

In any case, I think it's pretty clear that boxers are not punching on some massive order of magnitude harder than MMA guys are. Ok, Randy Couture didnt have a great punch - but Bas had a perfectly respectable force on his. And if you're trying to measure toughness, take another look at the physics of their kicks in part 2. MMA fighters have to stand up to incredible forces from a whole variety of different weapons that boxers dont have to deal with.

I love boxing, and in a boxing match a boxer will beat an MMA fighter all things being equal - not because of punch force, but because of hand skills, because of the fact that a boxer doesnt have to spread his time as thin as an MMA guy covering all the variety of bases - a boxer can perfect his boxing skills, the timing, defence, etc that will lead to victory in that particular arena. Not to mention practise defensive techniques that are invalidated in MMA - bobbing and weaving etc - the boxer comes in with practise in these abilities, an MMA fighter will have avoided them because in his arena they create vulnerabilities.

[murphyx500]

Watching that video made me laugh. I just imagined a bar scenario, some douche bag (the crash dummy) sitting on his stool calling Bas a cunt, and then BAM.

[MrSmall]

Crosstrainer told us about this some time ago, power:weight ratio isn't as good at a high weight as it is at a lower weight.

[joekirkbycobra]

didnt jeff lacy punch harder than calvin brock in one of these tests

[Diomedes]

didnt jeff lacy punch harder than calvin brock in one of these tests

Yeah, I've read in a number of places that Jeff Lacy was the most powerful puncher on the olympic team he was on - including those in higher weight categories. Couldnt find any actual figures though.

It makes sense that punching power has diminishing returns as the fighter gains weight, if we look at powerlifting and the relationship there between weight and strength. Bigger guys can lift more, yes, but it's far from proportional to their weight - as a trend, the little guys are pound for pound much stronger. Then, when you factor in the individual variation - which is vast - its not surprising that you get some small guys who are more powerful than some large guys.

[Pugsley]

You're trying too hard to use this as some sort of anti-MMA thing. Our sample size here is ridiculously small, and you should know that punch power varies hugely even within the same weight category.

I love boxing, and in a boxing match a boxer will beat an MMA fighter all things being equal - not because of punch force, but because of hand skills, because of the fact that a boxer doesnt have to spread his time as thin as an MMA guy covering all the variety of bases - a boxer can perfect his boxing skills, the timing, defence, etc that will lead to victory in that particular arena. Not to mention practise defensive techniques that are invalidated in MMA - bobbing and weaving etc - the boxer comes in with practise in these abilities, an MMA fighter will have avoided them because in his arena they create vulnerabilities.

I dont think its anti-MMA. Anyway I'm not reading into it that far. I agree that Fighters in any discipline which have to spread out their training are less focused in terms of power than those which specialise in a certain area. It all depends on who is fighting in who's arena, cause they both do better according to their own arena/rules.

I've watched a number of documentaries, even the ones done in Japan on the same subject, and most say that the average hit of a boxer is around 800lb.

[Diomedes]

I dont think its anti-MMA. Anyway I'm not reading into it that far.

The point of Gregsid's post was pretty clearly an attempt to denigrate MMA fighters vis a vis boxers. Even after I showed that Bas hit as hard as their test boxer, he still attempted to put an anti-MMA slant on it.

I agree that Fighters in any discipline which have to spread out their training are less focused in terms of power than those which specialise in a certain area.

I dont think they're less focused on power, but they are less focused on skill, because that takes longer to develop. The way I see it, through my experience training in boxing and in observing others, is that it doesnt take that long to teach someone decent basic punch mechanics, so that they can put a decent amount of their mass into their punches with decent form - at least for straight punches. It's everything else that takes much longer - to keep their guard up, to move properly, to be able to slip and block and deflect punches effectively, head movement and to bob and weave, and throw punches in combinations etc.

MMA fighters cant afford to reach their full potential in these areas, because they've also got to worry about throwing kicks, defending against kicks, defending against takedowns, learning takedowns, all of the multitude of ground attack and defence techniques. So I doubt that there's much difference in punching power between boxers and MMA fighters, but in all those other boxing skills they wont be as proficient. The data, especially for MMA fighter punching power is very limited (Just Randy and Bas from what I can tell) but it seems consistent with this hypothesis.

It all depends on who is fighting in who's arena, cause they both do better according to their own arena/rules.

I've watched a number of documentaries, even the ones done in Japan on the same subject, and most say that the average hit of a boxer is around 800lb.

Roughly matches the high 700's I found elsewhere.

[younghypnotiq]

i sw another vid that sad randy stikes when he mounted u is like 5x stronger then average heavywight boxers

[viru§™]

Who would have thought guys who only punch in a fight would be good at punching... :roll:

[Ethan Trims]

Yeah, I've read in a number of places that Jeff Lacy was the most powerful puncher on the olympic team he was on - including those in higher weight categories. Couldnt find any actual figures though.

It makes sense that punching power has diminishing returns as the fighter gains weight, if we look at powerlifting and the relationship there between weight and strength. Bigger guys can lift more, yes, but it's far from proportional to their weight - as a trend, the little guys are pound for pound much stronger. Then, when you factor in the individual variation - which is vast - its not surprising that you get some small guys who are more powerful than some large guys.

let me ask you this.

If you took tommy hearns and measured his punching power at welterweight. After that, you bulked tommy up to heavyweight, added more mass. And this mass was all muscle, and on his back and legs, the two most important areas for developing power. Do you believe he wouldnt hit as hard as he did at welter or just p4p he wouldnt hit as hard?

[Diomedes]

let me ask you this.

If you took tommy hearns and measured his punching power at welterweight. After that, you bulked tommy up to heavyweight, added more mass. And this mass was all muscle, and on his back and legs, the two most important areas for developing power. Do you believe he wouldnt hit as hard as he did at welter or just p4p he wouldnt hit as hard?

Just p4p. If we graphed his mass increase and his power increase, the mass increase would show a much steeper incline than his power increase. If we increased his weight by 30%, he might only see a 15% increase in power - totally made up numbers, but you get my point.

[Vantage_West]

i sw another vid that sad randy stikes when he mounted u is like 5x stronger then average heavywight boxersif you have any 200+ releasing pure shots to the chin with the floor behind his head...then of course he is goign to hit harder.

heavywieght boxer doesnt have a floor to squash his man against

[Viking Worrier]

if you have any 200+ releasing pure shots to the chin with the floor behind his head...then of course he is goign to hit harder.

heavywieght boxer doesnt have a floor to squash his man against


The force hitting the surface of the guys head would be great, as the victim cannot move much to dissipate energy, sort of a hammer and anvil effect.

For the same reason it seems that "poundees" are seldom knocked out. their heads dont move as much when hit, giving less of the crucial brain shake/spin that really sends fighters into temporary oblivion.

Just an observation.

Interesting thread, guys :thumbsup

[average_joe]

Wonder how much zelenoff clocks at? I don't think modern technology could measure it though. :think:

[joekirkbycobra]

Wonder how much zelenoff clocks at? I don't think modern technology could measure it though. :think:he is the hardest puncher ive seen since . . well ever