I'd still pick Cotto over williams [Archive]

thewoo

07-15-2007, 12:54 AM

Williams would win I think, Cotto is to slow and short to stop him.

Cotto is not really slow. Margarito is slower than Cotto and he was able to land some very solid shtos. Cotto would have a huge wide open target with williams body. I wouldn't be surprised if williams came out of that fight with come broken ribs.

Thinman

07-15-2007, 01:04 AM

Cotto is not really slow. Margarito is slower than Cotto and he was able to land some very solid shtos. Cotto would have a huge wide open target with williams body. I wouldn't be surprised if williams came out of that fight with come broken ribs.

Cotto's speed and Margo speed's are pretty much the same. Cotto would have more problems against Williams than Margo had because of Williams' height and reach.

The only chance that Cotto has is if he can get inside and actually hit Williams with great body shots, and stop him, because I don't see how Cotto can win a decission against Williams.

kg0208

07-15-2007, 01:06 AM

Cotto is not really slow. Margarito is slower than Cotto and he was able to land some very solid shtos. Cotto would have a huge wide open target with williams body. I wouldn't be surprised if williams came out of that fight with come broken ribs.
Margo is nearly 5in taller than Cotto to. And Williams is taller than 6'1...or Margo is no 5'11.

Either way, Cotto would have a tough time getting on the inside IMO.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:08 AM

Margo is nearly 5in taller than Cotto to. And Williams is taller than 6'1...or Margo is no 5'11.

Either way, Cotto would have a tough time getting on the inside IMO.

Cotto wipes this guy out in 5. Man you all are easy to sell too. Did it ever occur that Margarito is just NOT THAT GOOD?:nut

the_what

07-15-2007, 01:08 AM

Cotto was able to beat Judah to the punch. And land some wicked 3-4 punch combinations. If you think he is slow, then I dont think you know who Cotto is.

Slaughter27

07-15-2007, 01:09 AM

I don't care who fights who I just want to see all the big boys in welterweight fight each other.

kg0208

07-15-2007, 01:10 AM

Cotto wipes this guy out in 5. Man you all are easy to sell too. Did it ever occur that Margarito is just NOT THAT GOOD?:nut

No, it occured to me that I have seen Cotto get tagged by lesser fighters and that someone who throws 100 punches per round and has about a 10in reach advantage on Cotto might make it hard for Cotto to get in.

I said all along that I thought Williams gives guys like Cotto and PBF a tough fight because of height and sheer volume. BEFORE this fight.

BobDigi5060

07-15-2007, 01:10 AM

Cotto can wear down Williams easier but it won't be as easy of a fight as it was for Margarito. Cotto should win.

El Bombasto

07-15-2007, 01:10 AM

I think Cotto can win by stoppage, though he may have problems with PW's 6' height advantage.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:11 AM

5 rounds. That's all it's going.

Williams won't be able to keep that workrate like he did over slow, unpolished, journeyman-esque Margarito. He gets brutalised to the body and stopped anywhere from 3-5.

kg0208

07-15-2007, 01:12 AM

the_what

07-15-2007, 01:13 AM

Cotto is SHORT and is not fast.

And if Cintron can take out PW so easy why didn't he do the same to margo.

Cotto is not fast. But he isnt slow either. He has bested faster fighters like Malinaggi, Quintana, and Judah. Shows me his handspeed is really good.

And you can chalk up the Margarito loss to inexperience for Cintron. His offense if improving big time under Emmanuel Steward. He isnt the crude fighter he used to be.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:15 AM

K....but he has kept that workrate against everyone.

But who are they?

Any elite class guys? Don't say Margarito, because I've said for a solid year that he is a garbage hype job. This was no surprise to me, if Williams were a true elite class, he'd have iced this guy by round 10 with the volume that he was throwing.

Hell, even Clottey was smashing up Margarito before the hand injury, Clottey is nothing special either.

How does this translate to keeping the workrate against a brutal body puncher, who utilises pressure better than anyone in the division and who negates speed VERY well?

This is not hard to predict, why are we all ducks with headlights blasting in our faces?

kg0208

07-15-2007, 01:18 AM

But who are they?

Any elite class guys? Don't say Margarito, because I've said for a solid year that he is a garbage hype job. This was no surprise to me, if Williams were a true elite class, he'd have iced this guy by round 10 with the volume that he was throwing.

Hell, even Clottey was smashing up Margarito before the hand injury, Clottey is nothing special either.

How does this translate to keeping the workrate against a brutal body puncher, who utilises pressure better than anyone in the division and who negates speed VERY well?

This is not hard to predict, why are we all ducks with headlights blasting in our faces?

I am not going to argue with you on a hypothetical. I don't see it that way and I won't unless it happens. This fight went one of the 2 ways I thought it would....the X factor being Williams chin, which proved to be tougher that I thought.

No one is any kind of duck or anything else. We all pick fights wrong at times. No one knows anything for sure.

Farmboxer

07-15-2007, 01:19 AM

Anyone who supports Williams should never ever say anything about Vlad's clinching ever again. Clinching is a part of boxing, but Williams was holding a lot, excessive, where was the outrage? Double standard.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:19 AM

amsterdamm you're a fuckin idiot....cotto wouldn't have what it takes to knock williams out before 6 rounds...he doesn't have the power to knock him out clean either.

it might happen in the later rounds but even then I think williams would beat cotto. style wise cotto would have problems with such a tall boxer

Oh yeah, I'm a fucking idiot who doesn't know his way around the sweet science, that's why I can formulate detailed, well thought out opinions and get the majority of my predictions correct.:?

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:22 AM

I am not going to argue with you on a hypothetical. I don't see it that way and I won't unless it happens. This fight went one of the 2 ways I thought it would....the X factor being Williams chin, which proved to be tougher that I thought.

No one is any kind of duck or anything else. We all pick fights wrong at times. No one knows anything for sure.

What do we not know here?

When Margarito started to really heat the pressure on, he was effective, Cotto would start from round 1 and Williams wouldn't establish his workrate like he could on Margarito.

Being that Cotto hits harder, is quicker, more accurate, smarter and throws viscious combinations...

Why is it far fetched to see a man whom was bothered to the body by Margarito, a sloppy hitter, and who'd be going against a very hard laser punching hiiter?

This is easy as pie to predict. Hopefully we get good odds.

Thinman

07-15-2007, 01:23 AM

But who are they?

Any elite class guys? Don't say Margarito, because I've said for a solid year that he is a garbage hype job. This was no surprise to me, if Williams were a true elite class, he'd have iced this guy by round 10 with the volume that he was throwing.

Hell, even Clottey was smashing up Margarito before the hand injury, Clottey is nothing special either.

How does this translate to keeping the workrate against a brutal body puncher, who utilises pressure better than anyone in the division and who negates speed VERY well?

This is not hard to predict, why are we all ducks with headlights blasting in our faces?

Bad reasoning. Nobody is saying that Williams will KO Cotto, and I don't think Williams needs to Ko Cotto to beat him. I think is the other way around, Cotto can only win if he stops Williams, otherwise he would lose the fight big time.

You are talking about hype, and you are doing the same by saying Cotton would beat Williams in 3-5 rounds. :huh

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:23 AM

so by your standards paul williams sucks, margorito sucks, clottey sucks...

and you're King Shit...quit watching so much tv, bird

They're all 2nd tier level fighters, under the 1st tier, the ELITE.

I'm not king shit, but I'm absolutely correct about these overrated guys.

Slaughter27

07-15-2007, 01:24 AM

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:24 AM

....

I give up.:hi:

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:26 AM

You've just lost all credibility with me man.

Fine with me. But when he's destroyed brutally if the bout happens, or if he's destroyed by Cintron even, think back to this post and how a poster who was absolutely on target about these 2nd tier, overhyped WW's lost all credibility with you for having a differing opinion.

Fanboys, have to love them.:lol:

kg0208

07-15-2007, 01:26 AM

What do we not know here?

When Margarito started to really heat the pressure on, he was effective, Cotto would start from round 1 and Williams wouldn't establish his workrate like he could on Margarito.

Being that Cotto hits harder, is quicker, more accurate, smarter and throws viscious combinations...

Why is it far fetched to see a man whom was bothered to the body by Margarito, a sloppy hitter, and who'd be going against a very hard laser punching hiiter?

This is easy as pie to predict. Hopefully we get good odds.

Margarito was effective as in MORE effective than he was, but Williams kept fighting too, and clearly won the 12th.

Margarito is also 5in taller than Cotto. Cotto would have a different task entirely getting inside on Williams. Not to mention, Margarito has a better chin IMO.

Did I say it was far fetched? I just don't agree with you.

Speak.King

07-15-2007, 01:30 AM

I'm reading alot about Paul Williams and Margo are over hype. Honestly, the same can be said about Cotto.

Slaughter27

07-15-2007, 01:31 AM

Fine with me. But when he's destroyed brutally if the bout happens, or if he's destroyed by Cintron even, think back to this post and how a poster who was absolutely on target about these 2nd tier, overhyped WW's lost all credibility with you for having a differing opinion.

Fanboys, have to love them.:lol:

If you would of just said Cotto has a good chance of beating Williams, then I wouldn't of responded. But when someone predicts a knockout before the 5th round, then you have to question that person.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:31 AM

you need to stop being so obsessed with the term 'elite' you moron. your versoin of the elite are people that you see on tv. maybe hbo or showtime that have a lot of hype. or probably people with 0 losses.

everyone is a boxer and every person has a chance to beat another person, ELITE or not. mike tyson was beat by buster douglas....was buster the "Elite". boxing is a game where anyone can win, and there is no Real such thing as the elite, its just a term insecure fags like to use to feel strong about their judgements

:roll:

You know nothing about how I rate fighters, you simply presume from our interaction tonight and you presume incorrectly while throwing needless insults.

I am the biggest critic of hype jobs on the forum, you think I go for whoever is thrown in my face by the major networks?:lol:

And there is a such thing as the elite crop, if you think there is not, then please give up on trying to be objective in boxing debate, because there is no even plane, some guys are supremely better than the majority of ranked fighters, thus the term "elite" comes to mind in classifying them.

It seems to me, that you and your kind are the ones eating hype jobs up, not me.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:34 AM

If you would of just said Cotto has a good chance of beating Williams, then I wouldn't of responded. But when someone predicts a knockout before the 5th round, then you have to question that person.

I normally get these kinds of bold statements correct, that's why I am confident to throw them out without a care.

But I'll stick with it, Cotto annihilates Williams before the 5th. Cintron too at this point, those nasty counters will land and I doubt Williams can take them, judging that Margarito's sloppy punches were bothering him well to the body and head.

I don't even rate Margarito as a hitter.

MSTR

07-15-2007, 01:41 AM

Margo is nearly 5in taller than Cotto to. And Williams is taller than 6'1...or Margo is no 5'11.

Either way, Cotto would have a tough time getting on the inside IMO.

Wrong. Why would Cotto have more trouble getting inside when he is the shorter fighter. He can get lower and can close the distance much easier then Margarito. Cotto would destroy Williams. This would be a stylistic nightmare for Paul and I hope this match up gets made to prove it. He isn't comfortable fighting on the inside, and against a guy with very short compact and hard punches in close he will get punished.

Ring Master

07-15-2007, 01:42 AM

The 5'6 Cotto will have to over come a 67' to 83' reach disadvantage over the 6'2 Williams

Cotto will then have to deal with the work rate and angular punches of Williams.

Cotto is capable of hurting Williams. I just don't think that Cotto will be able to get in position enough early in the fight to be able to invest to the body as margo did. There for he won't be able to slow down Williams pace and Paul will outbox him to a UD.

MSTR

07-15-2007, 01:43 AM

I'm reading alot about Paul Williams and Margo are over hype. Honestly, the same can be said about Cotto.

Yeah I think Cotto is over hyped too. The fact that he has destroyed a whole host of credible opponents is proof of that. :-(

Slaughter27

07-15-2007, 01:44 AM

I normally get these kinds of bold statements correct, that's why I am confident to throw them out without a care.

But I'll stick with it, Cotto annihilates Williams before the 5th. Cintron too at this point, those nasty counters will land and I doubt Williams can take them, judging that Margarito's sloppy punches were bothering him well to the body and head.

I don't even rate Margarito as a hitter.

I don't know what makes you think Cotto is so much better than everyone. Every time Judah landed his left hand it hurt Cotto, and Williams would be coming at him non stop.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:47 AM

I don't know what makes you think Cotto is so much better than everyone. Every time Judah landed his left hand it hurt Cotto, and Williams would be coming at him non stop.

Did it ever dawn that Judah's a one punch KO puncher?:think

And I'll back this up with two prime examples -

He's the only man to starch Spinks, despite Spinks moving up and taking punches from larger men well.

He's he only man to starch Rivera, who has a very good chin.

For Cotto to get buzzed off of a sharp KO puncher like Judah, that doesn't bother me at all.

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:49 AM

Wrong. Why would Cotto have more trouble getting inside when he is the shorter fighter. He can get lower and can close the distance much easier then Margarito. Cotto would destroy Williams. This would be a stylistic nightmare for Paul and I hope this match up gets made to prove it. He isn't comfortable fighting on the inside, and against a guy with very short compact and hard punches in close he will get punished.

Precisely! MSTR on target, no surprise here.:good

And here is another hilarious thing, I have paraded around to the ridiculous Margarito fanbase that if Williams wins over that glorified joke, then the Williams train will be in a fury and many will be predicting him to be some type of P4P threat....

Looks like it happened, though I can't take much credit for predicting that, because it happens every goddamn time something like this occurs.

Oh how I love this shit my man!:lol:

Ring Master

07-15-2007, 01:50 AM

....

I give up.:hi:

it's not what your saying but how you are saying it.

It sounds like your calling worldcalss fighters like Josha Clottey, journey men.

brooklyn1550

07-15-2007, 01:50 AM

Amsterdam, what are your thoughts on a Cotto-Cintron matchup?

Speak.King

07-15-2007, 01:52 AM

Yeah I think Cotto is over hyped too. The fact that he has destroyed a whole host of credible opponents is proof of that. :-(Yeah, some real world beaters. Viva puerto rico!

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:53 AM

Amsterdam, how do you with Cotto-Cintron would turn out?

I'd go with Cotto, but I will say that if Cintron has really developed a better mentality and can stand his ground correctly and perhaps even take a shot better than he's shown, then it would be more of a toss up.

If Cintron is the same guy from Estrada, then Cotto starches him with relative ease, I don't want to overrate Cintron, but he looked pretty damn sharp against a guy who provided Williams with some trouble.

It's a more intriguing bout, maybe Cintron can really live up to some potential, at least he's got no hype train and most wrote him off after mentally collapsing against Margarito two years ago.:lol:

But I'd still favour Cotto in any manner, he has the style to beat Cintron.

Cerberus

07-15-2007, 01:53 AM

I like Paul in this fight if it happens. The size and reach difference is just impossible to ignore. Compared to other welterweights, Cotto has pretty short arms as it is.. Paul showed tonight he could take a body punch. Granted, Margarito's body shots aren't of the caliber of Cotto's, but I think with his movement, reach, and suprisingly durable body and chin, he takes Cotto the distance and wins in a pretty clear decision...

Amsterdam

07-15-2007, 01:55 AM

it's not what your saying but how you are saying it.

It sounds like your calling worldcalss fighters like Josha Clottey, journey men.

They aren't journeyman. They're the 2nd tier of the World Class level.

But I am bashing Margarito, to which I am a self proclaimed hater of him due to a variety of reasons as a "glorified" journeyman, similiar in the way that you bash Lexus as a "glorified" Toyota, he's obviously not a journeyman, but he's also not an adequate top class fighter and I utterly despise his fanbase.

Then how the world thinks Clottey is some devastating machine.... it's just stupid really. Clottey is not even a big puncher.

Now there is someone Williams WILL win every round against, Clottey, absolutely. Williams 120-108.

Jason997

07-15-2007, 02:26 AM

Wow, why are there a bunch of people with gay photos up tonight? Whats the deal with Eastside Boxing. Have I been missing something????

- Jason

brooklyn1550

07-15-2007, 02:26 AM

Wow, why are there a bunch of people with gay photos up tonight? Whats the deal with Eastside Boxing. Have I been missing something????

- Jason

Avatar bets

Jason997

07-15-2007, 02:28 AM

A bet!! Ok, I get it :) I got confused and started laughing. Carry on.

JoeR

07-15-2007, 04:01 AM

Amsterdamn may seem too confident or too arrogant in the way he says Cotto will destroy Williams. But even though he has a crude way of giving his opinion, in this case he is correct. I wont go that far as saying that Cotto will knockout Paul around the 5th round, but he will knock him out eventually. While this fight was going on, I was analyzing how Cotto would fare with either of them cause I knew there is a good possibility that the winner would fight Cotto.

After watching this fight, I have no doubt Cotto would dominate Williams. Heh, it would probably be an easy fight for Cotto. Williams was slapping with his punches, he really doesnt have that much power unless he catches you just right. I also noticed that Williams doesnt have good feet, he seems out of balance too often in the fight.

Williams would probably win the first three rounds against Cotto, throwing his 100 punches per round. But Cotto's punches; especially Cotto's left hook to the body, would significantly slow down Williams. In this fight, Williams was not the same fighter after 7 rounds. I believe Cotto would accomplish this even sooner. After 6 rounds, its Cotto time, and he would finish off Williams.

While watching this fight, it was pretty obvious to me that Cotto would beat Williams. Cant see it any other way. Cotto throws short, crisp punches. If Margo dominated Williams with his wide looping punches late in the fight, there is no doubt in my mind Cotto would beat him.

Cotto is a different beast..... have nothing else to say, Cotto is a beast.