larry donald vs max baer

[bumdujour]

i cant see baer winning this. donald is far more skilled and has a great chin.

his jab would hit baer at will. its only a question of weather baer can last the course or the accumilative punishment sends him home before the bell.

i pick donald by ud.

[janitor]

i cant see baer winning this. donald is far more skilled and has a great chin.

his jab would hit baer at will. its only a question of weather baer can last the course or the accumilative punishment sends him home before the bell.

i pick donald by ud.

Donald would be quite a good pick to outpoint Baer.

I wouldnt discount Baers chances though.

Firstly there is no such thing as a good chin against Baer.

Secondly if Donald respects his power he might end up getting outpointed.

[teeto]

Donald would be quite a good pick to outpoint Baer.

I wouldnt discount Baers chances though.

Firstly there is no such thing as a good chin against Baer.

Secondly if Donald respects his power he might end up getting outpointed.

Well , you cleared this thread up!!! Seriously though, i do pick Baer to get to him eventually

[C. M. Clay II]

Firstly there is no such thing as a good chin against Baer.

Unless your name is Muhammad Ali.:yep

[ChrisPontius]

Donald UD. His durability and boxing skill will see him through this rather boring fight in which Baer looks clueless most of the time while Larry fights conservative.

[janitor]

Unless your name is Muhammad Ali.:yep

Even then his power could cause issues.

[bumdujour]

Donald would be quite a good pick to outpoint Baer.

I wouldnt discount Baers chances though.

Firstly there is no such thing as a good chin against Baer.

Secondly if Donald respects his power he might end up getting outpointed.

that is bullshit. of course there is a good chin vs max baer. he needed about 20 haymakers (legal and illegal) to stop schmelling.

he couldnt stop levinski in 30 rounds!!! and several others.

if a puncher like vitaly klitschko needed 10 rounds of pounding ( i mean hitting him flush) to stop him.

so i guess its save to say he can stand up to a single baer punch.

cause baer wouldnt do much landing anyways. his boxing skills were very poor at best. he even got himself off balance throwing a jab. watching him fight levinsky in reno was like watching two drunk sailors fight, almost comical.

donald wouldnt be able to miss him with the jab or straight right hand.

baer can make it to the bell cause he had a good chin. but anything else is out of the question.

[janitor]

Donald UD. His durability and boxing skill will see him through this rather boring fight in which Baer looks clueless most of the time while Larry fights conservative.

If it was that easy then Schmeling would have beaten Baer.

Hell Carnera would probably have beaten him if it was that easy.

Baer might have had glaring technical weakneses but he was a fighter that you had to take verry seriously indeed.

[janitor]

[quote=bumdujour]that is bullshit. of course there is a good chin vs max baer. he needed about 20 haymakers (legal and illegal) to stop schmelling.


Schmeling was a better defensive counterpuncher than Donald and was himself a prety durable fighter.


he couldnt stop levinski in 30 rounds!!! and several others.


Everybopdy gets taken the distance sooner or later if they fight world class opposition regularly.

What you have to focus on if the guys that Baer put away that nobo0dy else could. Pat Comiskey had never been off his feet before he met Baer and Max just iced him.


if a puncher like vitaly klitschko needed 10 rounds of pounding ( i mean hitting him flush) to stop him.


Vitally Klitschko dose not hit as hard as Baer.

Nobody hits as hard as Baer except perhaps Earnie Shavers.
so i guess its save to say he can stand up to a single baer punch.


cause baer wouldnt do much landing anyways. his boxing skills were very poor at best. he even got himself off balance throwing a jab. watching him fight levinsky in reno was like watching two drunk sailors fight, almost comical.


Yes Baer was crude but he was the same kind of crude as George Foreman. A heavy handed slugger who brought the smackdown. That type of fighter relies less on technical ability than any other style.

baer can make it to the bell cause he had a good chin. but anything else is out of the question.

In heavyweight boxing nothing is out of the question.

Especialy with a guy who hits like Baer.

[SuzieQ49]

Max Baer wide decision. Different class than journeyman Donald.

[mr. magoo]

Outside of having better than average durability, Donald was a pretty shitty fighter. No power. Boring as hell to watch. Rarely defeated anyone worth anything. I suppose his chin and stamina would get him to the scorecards against Baer, and from there it would be up for grabs, but I probably wouldn't spend a single moment of a Saturday night watching it.

[bumdujour]

[quote]


Schmeling was a better defensive counterpuncher than Donald and was himself a prety durable fighter.



Everybopdy gets taken the distance sooner or later if they fight world class opposition regularly.

What you have to focus on if the guys that Baer put away that nobo0dy else could. Pat Comiskey had never been off his feet before he met Baer and Max just iced him.



Vitally Klitschko dose not hit as hard as Baer.

Nobody hits as hard as Baer except perhaps Earnie Shavers.
so i guess its save to say he can stand up to a single baer punch.



Yes Baer was crude but he was the same kind of crude as George Foreman. A heavy handed slugger who brought the smackdown. That type of fighter relies less on technical ability than any other style.



In heavyweight boxing nothing is out of the question.

Especialy with a guy who hits like Baer.

baer hits harder than vitaly klitschko??? there is nothing that supports your claim. i just saw him hit lou nova about seven times flush on the chin in a row and nothing happened.

yeah, downright awesome. and that happened after lou nova had been ruined by galento.

and foreman was crude, baer fought like a drunk sailor. there is a difference.


you are just one of those biased oldtimers needs to get to grips with reality. just cause someone was a pro boxer in the 1930´s or 40´s doesnt make him better fight than a pro boxer today.

its like with the stories of yesteryear in ring magazine. fighters are called defensive wizards, unhittable, blah,blah,blah.......
and when you get to see them actually fight on some old video, reality sets in and you suddenly realize. damm, that defensive wizard was really a guy who was able to hold his gloves in front of his face for a change ( something rare among old timers)............so his defensive wizardary amounts to nothing more than what an average eastern euro amateur can deliver (probably only better). double ouch:patsch

[ChrisPontius]

If it was that easy then Schmeling would have beaten Baer.

Hell Carnera would probably have beaten him if it was that easy.

Baer might have had glaring technical weakneses but he was a fighter that you had to take verry seriously indeed.

Schmeling had a suspect jaw, something that is pretty handy against a limited slugger like Baer. Carnera was far ahead on the scorecards if not for the knockdowns, again it's a durability problem, which Donald didn't have.

[bumdujour]

i put up this thread for a reason: i always got the feeling that "old time fighters" were seriously overrated by several of the regular posters on here.

so to find out if there is any substance to your talk, i chose two fighters i know pretty well. and i looked at both very recently when i had it on my mind to test you with this thread...........in other words i did my homework.

i sat through twenty rounds of baer vs levinsky. i watched baer vs schmeling, louis, braddock and carnera.

the reason i picked these two was simple: baer is a typical subject of boxing lore.......a fighter who obviously lacked any type of boxing skill.
in other words, a fighter who was good in his time but would get owned by a modern heavyweight.

BUT HE IS AN "OLDTIMER"!!!

In the other corner i put an unliked fighter (due to his boring style), but in terms of skill lightyears ahead of baer. who also had a very good chin, thus minimizing the chance of him getting overwhelmed.

so in other words: if you have seen both fighters in action, you could only have baer coming in as a massive underdog.

Now i wanted to see what happens.

and it didnt take long for good old suzieQ barking out that "baer is in a different class than donald".

to this, let me just say this: anyone who stands by such an opinion has either not seen baer nor donald fight.
or simply lacks even the basic knowelge of boxing techniques.

[SuzieQ49]

baer was considerably past his prime when he fought nova.

[SuzieQ49]

Why do Vitali Klitschko fans attempt to make his victims look like studs? He beats a 35 year old larry donald and all of a sudden Larry Donald is some world class fighter who could beat great fighters? Ive heard Corrie Sanders is a a freak of nature in the mold of joe louis who would destroy many champions according to one vitali fan, LOL. Ive heard all the exuses in the world for Bryd fight. Ive heard vitali fans try to elevate ross purrity into one of the better contenders through history, LOL. Ive heard vitali use the knockouts of 36 year old orlin norris and Herbie Hide as reasons why no old timer sub 210lb could beat him LOL.



Now we got people picking Larry Donald, a JOURNEYMAN WHO NEVER BEAT A RANKED CONTENDER IN HIS LIFE, over a Great Fighter who was linear HW champion. I mean dont you think thats a huge stretch? Donald is outclassed in all phases.

[Mendoza]

baer was considerably past his prime when he fought nova.

Maybe so, but Baer couldn't box a lick. He lost TEN times outside of his 3 Ko's losses to guys that were not as good as Donald!! Please explain why this happened SuzieQ?

Donald has a great chin, quick feet, and good jab. These three things alone limit Bear's puncher's chance.

Donald would be my pick to win via Decsion.

[SuzieQ49]

What ranked contender has donald ever beat? has donald ever beaten a world class fighter?


Baer at his best is leagues above donald, a journeyman. Donald would end up like earnie schaff.

[BOGART]

I'd take Donald all day in this match. On one hand you have a capable boxer with a good chin going against a crude wild swinger who carries a punch. Sounds like a Donald decision to me. Bad bad style match up for Baer. Sure Baer would obviously rate much higher on a heavyweight ranking scale but that don't matter here. Just watch them both on tape and you can tell Baer would probably lose a decision to Donald.

[janitor]

[quote=bumdujour][quote=janitor]
baer hits harder than vitaly klitschko??? there is nothing that supports your claim.


For a star Vitally Klitschko throwns mainly arm punches at high output.

This in itself is going to take a lot of the sting out of individual punches.


i just saw him hit lou nova about seven times flush on the chin in a row and nothing happened.


You can find examples where any fighter hots sombody flush and they fail to go down. Baer was a shell by then anyway.


yeah, downright awesome. and that happened after lou nova had been ruined by galento.


He was a lot closer to his peak than Baer was you can be asured of that.


and foreman was crude, baer fought like a drunk sailor. there is a difference.


I could point out a number of things that Baer did better if you want to play that game. His defence when he chose to use it had a lot more layers to it.


you are just one of those biased oldtimers needs to get to grips with reality. just cause someone was a pro boxer in the 1930´s or 40´s doesnt make him better fight than a pro boxer today.


I could acuse you of making the opposite asumption.

[janitor]

[quote=bumdujour]i put up this thread for a reason: i always got the feeling that "old time fighters" were seriously overrated by several of the regular posters on here.


Yes we get a lot of kids coming through here trying to make that point and they generaly leave with their tail between their legs.


the reason i picked these two was simple: baer is a typical subject of boxing lore.......a fighter who obviously lacked any type of boxing skill.
in other words, a fighter who was good in his time but would get owned by a modern heavyweight.

BUT HE IS AN "OLDTIMER"!!!

In the other corner i put an unliked fighter (due to his boring style), but in terms of skill lightyears ahead of baer. who also had a very good chin, thus minimizing the chance of him getting overwhelmed.

so in other words: if you have seen both fighters in action, you could only have baer coming in as a massive underdog.

Now i wanted to see what happens.


Your analysis is inherantly flawed.

It should be equaly obvious to you looking at film that Primo Carnera was a much better technician than Max Baer, if you know what you are looking at as you claim. By that logic it should be obvious that Carnera would be the strong favourite.

It should be equaly obvious that James Tooney is a much better technician than George Foreman or Sam Peter.

It just dosnt work like this in the real world.

[ChrisPontius]

What ranked contender has donald ever beat? has donald ever beaten a world class fighter?


Baer at his best is leagues above donald, a journeyman. Donald would end up like earnie schaff.
He beat Valuev on just about anyone's scorecard although the decision didn't go his way. And what was when he was 37 years old.

[janitor]

Schmeling had a suspect jaw, something that is pretty handy against a limited slugger like Baer. Carnera was far ahead on the scorecards if not for the knockdowns, again it's a durability problem, which Donald didn't have.

Were Schmeling and Carnera lacking in durability or were they just being hit by the wron man?

Carnera never took the count in a career of 80+ profesional fights and he was in with a lot of big hitters.

Schmelings only other knockout anywhere aproaching his prime was against Joe Louis.

Baer seems to have had that Shaversesque quality where if he hits you clean your legs do funny things even if you have a well proven chin.

Certainly it wasnt his boxing ability that got him as far as he got.

Now a Donald win is not particularly improbably here but I couldnt advise you to put any money down.

[Sonny's jab]

If Baer comes to fight in serious mood he's gonna win, by stoppage or by decision.

[SuzieQ49]

He beat Valuev on just about anyone's scorecard although the decision didn't go his way. And what was when he was 37 years old.


If you watch the film, and study up on valuevs style you will see that since 2005 he has improved dramatically as a boxer, especially his jab which was non existent in 2005 is now a solid one. Valuev of 2007-2008 is a much different better fighter

[ChrisPontius]

Were Schmeling and Carnera lacking in durability or were they just being hit by the wron man?

Carnera never took the count in a career of 80+ profesional fights and he was in with a lot of big hitters.

Schmelings only other knockout anywhere aproaching his prime was against Joe Louis.

Baer seems to have had that Shaversesque quality where if he hits you clean your legs do funny things even if you have a well proven chin.

Certainly it wasnt his boxing ability that got him as far as he got.

Now a Donald win is not particularly improbably here but I couldnt advise you to put any money down.

Schmeling has been stopped several times and in the first round as well. I won't say "glass chin!", but his durability was certainly one of his biggest weaknesses. You can say most of those early knockouts came before his prime, but other fighters of his era like Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, Nova, you name em, none of them had his amount of early knockout losses.

[SuzieQ49]

schmeling was 19 years old when he was fighting top heavyweights like larry gains. He was just a teenager!

[mr. magoo]

Schmeling has been stopped several times and in the first round as well. I won't say "glass chin!", but his durability was certainly one of his biggest weaknesses. You can say most of those early knockouts came before his prime, but other fighters of his era like Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, Nova, you name em, none of them had his amount of early knockout losses.

To be fair, he was also a somewhat small heavyweight fighting big punchers in those days, yet he still went rounds with many of them and even won some big fights. I won't say that he had a granite chin, but I think he was generally a fairly durable fighter.

[janitor]

Schmeling has been stopped several times and in the first round as well. I won't say "glass chin!", but his durability was certainly one of his biggest weaknesses. You can say most of those early knockouts came before his prime, but other fighters of his era like Sharkey, Carnera, Baer, Nova, you name em, none of them had his amount of early knockout losses.

Schmeling only had a dozen amateur fights before he turned profesional. The same may be true of Sharkey Nova etc but I dont think it is. He was also as others have said a teenager when most of those knockouts took place.

Now if Schmeling had more kos early in his career than his peers he seemed to have less at or close to his peak for whatever reason.

It is also worth noting that all his KOs apart from Baer and Louis were at light heavyweight.

[PhillyPhan69]

you are just one of those biased oldtimers needs to get to grips with reality. just cause someone was a pro boxer in the 1930´s or 40´s doesnt make him better fight than a pro boxer today.

its like with the stories of yesteryear in ring magazine. fighters are called defensive wizards, unhittable, blah,blah,blah.......
and when you get to see them actually fight on some old video, reality sets in and you suddenly realize. damm, that defensive wizard was really a guy who was able to hold his gloves in front of his face for a change ( something rare among old timers)............so his defensive wizardary amounts to nothing more than what an average eastern euro amateur can deliver (probably only better). double ouch:patsch

I was going to give an opinion untill I read this....Wow!

[Sonny's jab]

Max Schmeling had a solid chin.
He got stopped 5 times in 70 fights.
3 of those stoppages were before he was 23 years old, and the other 2 are to Max Baer and Joe Louis.

Schmeling takes some huge shots on film, from soild punching heavyweights. The first fight with Joe Louis, he was taking a lot of Louis's bombs in the early rounds.

[RockyJim]

Bear is charged with attempted murder after this fight....assault with a dangerous weapon...his right hand!!!

[4eyes]

depends on which Baer showed up pre Braddock I can't see Donald being able to keep Baer off of him though

[Bigcat]

On the face of it i immediately thought Baer by decision.. Donald had skills , but he was never as hungry as Max, he was from a different era.. Larry was a flicking puncher , he was quite safety first and never really came to fruition when the division was quite weak.. Max was champ in an era with a few very tough bastards.. Its an odd one though, like many mixed era dream matchups..