Marciano vs Louis

[RoccoMarciano]

Yeah, we all know that this was a fight between a young predator and an aged, but still great, HW champion (no correction is necessary regarding this, I still consider Louis a great HW champion).

One thing to consider... did Rocky really want to hit Louis?

I think this fight would have ended long before it did, with a KO win for Marciano, if Marciano would have really wanted to deliver the goods to Louis.

Rocky likely carried Louis a bit because he didn't want to embarass his hero... I think Rocky cried after the fight.

So the question is... did Rocky just sort of let an aged Louis hang around for longer than was needed?

[sthomas]

I don't think so. That would have been crazy considering, even old, Louis could still land the bomb @ any time.

[mcvey]

Yeah, we all know that this was a fight between a young predator and an aged, but still great, HW champion (no correction is necessary regarding this, I still consider Louis a great HW champion).

One thing to consider... did Rocky really want to hit Louis?

I think this fight would have ended long before it did, with a KO win for Marciano, if Marciano would have really wanted to deliver the goods to Louis.

Rocky likely carried Louis a bit because he didn't want to embarass his hero... I think Rocky cried after the fight.

So the question is... did Rocky just sort of let an aged Louis hang around for longer than was needed?
No.This fight was the key to the big time and the "big money " for Marciano,Marciano may have liked and respected Louis ,but he loved and revered money more.

[Sonny's jab]

Marciano was a killer.
He didn't carry anyone.

[janitor]

Marciano was a killer.
He didn't carry anyone.

Asking Marciano to show compasion to another fighter in the ring would be like asking a bear to take a dump in the toilet.

[McGrain]

Haven't seen the fight. WOuld be astonished if Marciano ever gave 1% less than 100%

[RoccoMarciano]

I still think it is possible Marciano held back a little in this fight. Louis was the last guy on earth he wanted to fight and it isn't hard to see that playing into things going a little slower than they would have otherwise.

[DaveTheWave]

It is possible for Rocky to have had some compassion for Louis, but not likely. Louis still hit hard enough to hurt you, and Rocky still knocked him out. If he was carrying him, I would think he would have taken him the distance like Robinson did with Armstrong.

That being said, I think that fight we know doesn't have much bearing on how it would have gone in both their primes. Louis was a shadow of himself. I can envision Louis knocking Rocky down early, maybe more than once, but he can't move like Walcott or Charles who saw later rounds. I think pressure gets him and The Rock gets him out of there somewhere in the mid to late rounds.

[RoccoMarciano]

It is possible for Rocky to have had some compassion for Louis, but not likely. Louis still hit hard enough to hurt you, and Rocky still knocked him out.

You seem to appreciate Marciano, which is cool!

About the only problem I have is you thinking Rocky wouldn't have slown down a bit regarding Joe.

Don't you think that crying after, and not wanting the fight before would have had at least a little impact on Marciano's mental state? If Rocky is human, you can damn sure bet it did. Rocky didn't even want to hit Louis...

[fists of fury]

If he held back, it was probably subconsciously.

I think this illustrates the difference between a fighter and someone not born to it.
Most of us aren't natural born fighters, so we can't really relate to battering someone when we don't want to.
I don't think Rocky had that particular problem.

[mcvey]

You seem to appreciate Marciano, which is cool!

About the only problem I have is you thinking Rocky wouldn't have slown down a bit regarding Joe.

Don't you think that crying after, and not wanting the fight before would have had at least a little impact on Marciano's mental state? If Rocky is human, you can damn sure bet it did. Rocky didn't even want to hit Louis...
When Marciano got tagged by his brother Sonny in sparring he went all out to kill him Sonny had to grab him and shout in his face"Its Me Rock your brother Sonny".Marciano badly wanted the Louis fight it was the key to the title, remove Louis and he was in with Walcott.After the fight with Louis Marciano was regretful and full of praise for Louis,while the fight was on it was bombs away,as it should be.

[PowerPuncher]

Yeah, we all know that this was a fight between a young predator and an aged, but still great, HW champion (no correction is necessary regarding this, I still consider Louis a great HW champion).

One thing to consider... did Rocky really want to hit Louis?

I think this fight would have ended long before it did, with a KO win for Marciano, if Marciano would have really wanted to deliver the goods to Louis.

Rocky likely carried Louis a bit because he didn't want to embarass his hero... I think Rocky cried after the fight.

So the question is... did Rocky just sort of let an aged Louis hang around for longer than was needed?

Yes I see what you mean, instead of instead of finnishing the show earlier he gave Joe a prolonged beating causing him far more damage.

[RoccoMarciano]

When Marciano got tagged by his brother Sonny in sparring he went all out to kill him Sonny had to grab him and shout in his face"Its Me Rock your brother Sonny".Marciano badly wanted the Louis fight it was the key to the title, remove Louis and he was in with Walcott.After the fight with Louis Marciano was regretful and full of praise for Louis,while the fight was on it was bombs away,as it should be.

Probably an apocryphal story regarding the first part.

I hardly think Marciano "badly" wanted to fight Louis........

[RoccoMarciano]

Yes I see what you mean, instead of instead of finnishing the show earlier he gave Joe a prolonged beating causing him far more damage.
How many "instead of" statements do you need to type? Quite the intelligent little turnip, aren't you? Fuck-off until you learn something about this subject... or until you learn something about the English language; whichever comes your way first.

[DaveTheWave]

You seem to appreciate Marciano, which is cool!

About the only problem I have is you thinking Rocky wouldn't have slown down a bit regarding Joe.

Don't you think that crying after, and not wanting the fight before would have had at least a little impact on Marciano's mental state? If Rocky is human, you can damn sure bet it did. Rocky didn't even want to hit Louis...

I agree with you, because I knew he wept and apollogized to Louis after the fight, but once you start getting hit by Louis, well, noone wants to get hit by Louis for any longer than they need to.
He may not have wanted to embarass Louis, if I can put it that way. My point is that he's a fighter, and once Marciano started smelling and tasting his own blood, he might not have had those feelings toward Louis on the front burner.

[Ezzard]

I side with Rocco here.

Marciano respected Louis (as everyone did) and perhaps could have got the job done earlier... But just like Monzon with Griffith (or lewis's respect for tyson's power) the respect made Rocky just make sure before he moved in for his moment.

Louis wasn't great anymore but he was still a dangerous contender good enough to beat other rated fighters.

I appreciate the story of Rocky sparring his brother but sparring with a family member is always a different story. It's easy to get carried away.

[mcvey]

Probably an apocryphal story regarding the first part.

I hardly think Marciano "badly" wanted to fight Louis........
The story is in Marciano's biography by Everett Skehan I suggest you read it! I t would be more profitable boning up on your subject than abusing Power Puncher who made a valid point.Marciano dropped Louis with 2 hooks ,then with Louis out on his feet helpless on the ropes threw hiw Suzie Q and put Louis throught the ropes out to the world,you are living in Lal La land if you think Marciano took it easy on Louis ,or any other opponent.If you had read His biography you would know that ,once when faced with a no hoper Columbo suggested that he get himself a work out and let it go a few round s Rocky thought it was a good idea ,but after the first serious punch was landed by his opponent he unloaded and kod him,Columbo said "what happened I thought you were going to carry this guy"? "I know I just couldn't" was the reply.Be a fan by all means but get informed on your subject and there is no need to swear at someone because they disagree with you.

[SuzieQ49]

read this thread

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[Calroid]

I think it is more likely that Marciano would have KOed Louis as soon as possible to spare him a beating if he cared that much about him. Kinda like when Louis fought his friend John Henry Lewis.

[RoccoMarciano]

The story is in Marciano's biography by Everett Skehan I suggest you read it! I t would be more profitable boning up on your subject than abusing Power Puncher who made a valid point.Marciano dropped Louis with 2 hooks ,then with Louis out on his feet helpless on the ropes threw hiw Suzie Q and put Louis throught the ropes out to the world,you are living in Lal La land if you think Marciano took it easy on Louis ,or any other opponent.If you had read His biography you would know that ,once when faced with a no hoper Columbo suggested that he get himself a work out and let it go a few round s Rocky thought it was a good idea ,but after the first serious punch was landed by his opponent he unloaded and kod him,Columbo said "what happened I thought you were going to carry this guy"? "I know I just couldn't" was the reply.Be a fan by all means but get informed on your subject and there is no need to swear at someone because they disagree with you.

So Rocky "badly" wanted to fight Louis then?

I don't see any proof of that.

[RoccoMarciano]

I appreciate the story of Rocky sparring his brother but sparring with a family member is always a different story. It's easy to get carried away.
I can think of different times I've wanted to starch my brother.... no doubt he can think of at least 100 times he wanted to do the same to me :lol:

The story of Rocky and his brother has no doubt been played out in many family's that have a couple of male offspring..... inform the world :lol:

What that has to do, if anything, with any professional career is beyond me.

[mcvey]

I can think of different times I've wanted to starch my brother.... no doubt he can think of at least 100 times he wanted to do the same to me :lol:

The story of Rocky and his brother has no doubt been played out in many family's that have a couple of male offspring..... inform the world :lol:

What that has to do, if anything, with any professional career is beyond me.
They were sparring in an exhibition,for the public not a family friendly,the point is, if you cant take it easy on your 18 year old brother ,you are unlikely to do it when you are fighting the number one contender ,a man who stands between you and a title shot.Marciano ,who lived like a monk trained with frightening intensity for Louis he sparred 110 rds ,and was in the best shape of his life.If after watching the fight you can see any hint of Marciano taking it easy on Louis please point it out to me.For some one with your avatar and interest in the subject you seem relatively ill informed about it,yet you called another poster a turnip,for disagreeing with you.I think the vegetable here is you.

[RoccoMarciano]

They were sparring in an exhibition,for the public not a family friendly,the point is, if you cant take it easy on your 18 year old brother ,you are unlikely to do it when you are fighting the number one contender ,a man who stands between you and a title shot.Marciano ,who lived like a monk trained with frightening intensity for Louis he sparred 110 rds ,and was in the best shape of his life.If after watching the fight you can see any hint of Marciano taking it easy on Louis please point it out to me.
Perhaps the brother thing was all for show.... or perhaps Rocky really wanted to take his brother's head off at that particular point in time, for one reason or another. Most brothers do have issues at times (maybe you don't have one?):lol:

How do you know Marciano couldn't have came out against Louis much more ferocious than he did? Simple fact of the matter is you don't know that to any degree of certainty, and neither do I. One thing I do know is Marciano didn't even want to fight Louis, and that fact most certainly held him (Marciano) back a little!

[Chinxkid]

Marciano was a sweet guy, but he was the ultimate competitor. I don't think he took it easy on Louis, though it's been some time since I've last seen that fight. Still, there's no doubt he revered Joe Louis, and afterwords, after Joe was a ball of a beaten legend on the canvass, we've all seen the impulse the Rock had to help him up. Fighters have to find the killer instinct in themselves that all of us are born with, but rarely have to develop, and the truth is that it never leaves them.

[mcvey]

Perhaps the brother thing was all for show.... or perhaps Rocky really wanted to take his brother's head off at that particular point in time, for one reason or another. Most brothers do have issues at times (maybe you don't have one?):lol:

How do you know Marciano couldn't have came out against Louis much more ferocious than he did? Simple fact of the matter is you don't know that to any degree of certainty, and neither do I. One thing I do know is Marciano didn't even want to fight Louis, and that fact most certainly held him (Marciano) back a little!
I suggest you do some research on Marciano before you mug yourself any further.

[ChrisPontius]

Marciano took it easy on Louis as much as Tyson carried Holmes. Good thing , too. It's better to get knocked out then relive Ali vs Holmes.

[SuzieQ49]

I had the fight scored 4 rounds to 3 marciano after 7 rounds......Louis puffed up marciano's face horribly and with his big size skill advantage he was a big threat to marciano. Marciano was peak that night though and never looked better, and took the best louis had to give and eventually knocked louis out, but it took an absolute peak rocky marciano to do this vs louis, and he certainly gave it his very best, no way he took it easy on louis at all like some have said in this thread, louis was too dangerous and was puffing up marcianos face too much.

[SuzieQ49]

I hadn't seen this in a while but I popped it in again. I was astonished at what I saw. I had it a very close fight heading into the 8th(marciano 4 rounds to 3 ) Both fighters were chizzled looked in great shape. This was an incredible hard paced fought, I was incredibly impressed with the workrate and stamina both showed. the 3rd and 4th round were incredibley exciting. I suggest watching the earlier rounds. As for Joe Louis he was 37 and past his prime, but he was unquestionably still a formidable world class fighter. Louis still had terrifc scientific boxing skills, good handspeed, the best jab in the heavyweight division including Walcott and Valdez, Good Size 6'2 215lb, and he still could punch hard with his heavy fists. in the early rounds louis looked real good. He hurt marciano in rounds 1 and 7 with hard left hooks(rocky proved his chin) and in round 5 with a right hand(anyone who says louis right hand is useless has not seen the louis-marciano fight or his other comeback fights)......... Louis best weapon was his left jab. He doubled his left jab the whole fight vs marciano, it was accuate, it was elegent, powerful. At 6'2 215lb he was much bigger than rock, and bigger and more powerful than most fighters he fought and he busted up rockys face pretty bad with it. On the flipside I thought Rocky really showed the skills how he would deal with a big mans jab. Rocky dipped slipped rolled parry'd the jab and make louis miss a bunch of times. He bobbed and weaved in this fight more than any other fight I have seen. Rocky looked fast on his feet in this fight.

It is my opinion this is rockys best fight on film. He showed me everything in this fight. He looked faster and sharper in this fight than any I had seen. He showed what he could do vs an old albeit world clsass big man. I think if you threw this marciano in vs baker and valdez, that Animal I saw would have taken apart both baker and valdez similiar to the way he dealt with louis.....They would never be able to keep rocky off them or outslug rocky.


I cannot believe the myths that have passed around about this fight. About how it looked like a sad tearful ali-holmes spectacle. YA RIGHT!!!! have you seen the fight? It was a very scientific hard fought bout, both dished out alot of punishment both were hungry for an oppertunity for the title. Louis was # 1 ranked and Marciano # 2 ranked, they went all out. You have to remember at this point Joe Louis was promised a title shot rematch vs charles in june(little did they know walcott would knockout charles). Louis was overmatched by the younger great eventually, but he certainly went out on his shield. To show Louis sympathy his degrading his strong performance. I had it only 4 rounds to 3 in favor of marciano clearly a close fight. For anyone to try to imply marciano held back on louis has not seen the fight. Marciano was doing everything he could to take out louis and stay away from that telephone pole jab. Great fight.


Comments:


- I think with Louis natural added bulk to 215lb, I think he became more durable. In his comeback fights he was not floored once until fighting rocky and appeared to take a better punch with the chin with that extra padding

- I think the Prime Joe louis of the late 30s-early 40s would have beaten Rocky.

- I think after watching this fight Joe Louis was still the best hardest puncher rocky ever fought, that includes walcott, layne , moore.

- I think Louis even at that stage of his career was more formidable fighter than the other 2 top big men baker and valdez...Louis knocked out the big cuban Valdez in an live exhibition in one round in 1951 read in the newspaper.


There is no youtube film of Louis in his post fight comeback 1950-1951 except this segment of film Louis vs Valentino in jan 1950........Tell me what you think of louis.......not bad huh?

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FROM MY OTHER THREAD

[ChrisPontius]

I thought it did look pretty sad because it was obvious Louis could not get his right hand off and he got nailed by Marciano right hand leads over and over because his reflexes were gone.

[North Star]

I think Rocky is supposed to have said the Louis jab was like getting hit by a hammer. I believe Rocky wanted to win the fight as quickly as possible while hoping he would not have to hurt Joe more than was necessary.

[la-califa]

The thought of carrying Louis is crazy if Marciano loved & respected Louis so much. Why give him a prolonged beating? Rocky fought his normal fight & when the situation presented itself, Rocky ended it. I think maybe out of respect, he held back because he could have gotten hit with a counterpunch, if Rocky went in wild swinging punches. To a degree Louis was still dangerous at that point.