Kelly Pavlik vs Arthur Abraham

[SuzieQ49]

Probably the only competiton Pavlik has at 160lb who takes this mega fight between undefeated fighers?


I think Kelly has potential to be the next ATG middleweight. He is young 26 years old with a 33-0 record, and just won linear title against a very good champion jermaine Taylor whom he beat twice, once by dramatic come from behind warrior like fashion. Pavlik could reign for years.


He is 6'3 for a 160lber, and has power. That hieght, reach, Power reminds me of the 1980s welterweight Tommy Hearns in that regard. Pavlik's physical tools make him a touch match for many 160lbs, and pavlik is an excellent boxer too.

[Tom_Tocca]

I don't think that neither Pavlik or Abraham will aquire the status of an ATG at middleweight.

1. The division is even weaker as when B-Hop rained for about 10 years - the lack of competition is ore than evident.

2. Both will move up in about 3-4 fights - this just isn't enough time to build up a legacy to be remembered as an ATG at middleweight.

[Strike]

Neither have ATG ability, but if they meet Pavlik will win. Pavlik CAN hurt Abraham, Arthur was shook a little a couple of times Eastman landed and Pavlik hits harder than Eastman.

Similarly Abraham will struggle to get past Pavliks jab and Pavlik has a better workrate. Abraham has a punchers chance, but Pavlik is not glass jawed and I don't see him getting done with one shot.

[Bslice]

Probably the only competiton Pavlik has at 160lb who takes this mega fight between undefeated fighers?


I think Kelly has potential to be the next ATG middleweight. He is young 26 years old with a 33-0 record, and just won linear title against a very good champion jermaine Taylor whom he beat twice, once by dramatic come from behind warrior like fashion. Pavlik could reign for years.


He is 6'3 for a 160lber, and has power. That hieght, reach, Power reminds me of the 1980s welterweight Tommy Hearns in that regard. Pavlik's physical tools make him a touch match for many 160lbs, and pavlik is an excellent boxer too.

Hearns was a more powerful middleweight I think but, Kelly aint no slouch

[jc]

Definately the best fight at 160, sooner the better.

[booradley]

Tom is right. There aren't enough good fights at 160 to build a real legacy.

Strike is right too. Pavlik beats Abraham at least 4 out of 5. Styles make fights and Abraham was custom made to get pavlikated! I've explained my reasoning on that many times on other threads.

I do not know if Pavlik will ever be considered an ATG. To me that status is reserved for guys like Haglar, Lenoard, Robinson, Arguello, et. I think Pavlik will ultimately prove to be a 3 division titlist; 160, 168, 175. But history will put him more on the Danny Lopez, Ray Mancinni Hall of Fame level rather than all time great.

Boo

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

arthur wont be undefeated after jun 21

[Tom_Tocca]

Tom is right. There aren't enough good fights at 160 to build a real legacy.

Strike is right too. Pavlik beats Abraham at least 4 out of 5. Styles make fights and Abraham was custom made to get pavlikated! I've explained my reasoning on that many times on other threads.

I do not know if Pavlik will ever be considered an ATG. To me that status is reserved for guys like Haglar, Lenoard, Robinson, Arguello, et. I think Pavlik will ultimately prove to be a 3 division titlist; 160, 168, 175. But history will put him more on the Danny Lopez, Ray Mancinni Hall of Fame level rather than all time great.

Boo

Though, Ray Mancini is no ATG in most people's eyes - I still don't know why he was elected into the HOF. Pavlik, and IMO that's for sure, will overshine him like the sun overshines the earth.

[Tom_Tocca]

arthur wont be undefeated after jun 21
First of all, your prediction on JC vs. B-Hop is wrong - this doesn't bode well to back up your 2nd claim that is Miranda KO Abraham... :hi:

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

I could talk all the shit I want but we can talk again sunday about my bhop prediction

[Atritionist]

If Abraham doesn't dispose of Miranda, or at least beats him convincingly for a UD. He has no chance against Pavlik.

[booradley]

Though, Ray Mancini is no ATG in most people's eyes - I still don't know why he was elected into the HOF. Pavlik, and IMO that's for sure, will overshine him like the sun overshines the earth.

Mancinni was exciting and very popular. On another note; I think a lot of people use ATG and HOF as synonyms, but to me the two terms have very different conotations. what's your take?

Boo

[Strike]

Mancinni was exciting and very popular. On another note; I think a lot of people use ATG and HOF as synonyms, but to me the two terms have very different conotations. what's your take?

Boo

I agree. HOF is for fighters who achieved a lot and fought at world championship level for a long time or had some very notable wins in title fights and good careers overall.

ATG is for guys who are the top 15 of their division ever.

[Tom_Tocca]

I agree. HOF is for fighters who achieved a lot and fought at world championship level for a long time or had some very notable wins in title fights and good careers overall.

ATG is for guys who are the top 15 of their division ever.

I second that but still don't see Mancini on either side...

[jsimps]

I second that but still don't see Mancini on either side...

Ray was a blood and guts warrior, who gave every ounce of energy in every fight. His fights against arguello were some of the best. I'm biased being from his hometown, although I would still see him as a HOF.

[Pantera2000]

arthur wont be undefeated after jun 21

:thumbsup

[rreed23]

Pavlik Blasts Abraham out quick just like he did Miranda. Pavlik was able to recover and KO Taylor who is miles ahead of Abraham. Besides Abraham's gonna get KO'd by Miranda.

[SuzieQ49]

Pavlik is undefeated young and is linear champ holding 2 wins over Undefeated champion Jermaine Taylor. at 6'3 with a great jab, awesome two fisted power, you dont think pavliek could reign for a years to come?

[ThePlugInBabies]

Pavlik is undefeated young and is linear champ holding 2 wins over Undefeated champion Jermaine Taylor. at 6'3 with a great jab, awesome two fisted power, you dont think pavliek could reign for a years to come?

questionable chin, sloppy defence, open to angles.

[Hermit]

Though, Ray Mancini is no ATG in most people's eyes - I still don't know why he was elected into the HOF.

He was never the same after his fight with the Korean.

[AK.]

If Pavlik applies the blocking punches with his face strategy against Abraham like he did against Miranda, he won't last. I really like both, Pavlik and Abraham, but IMO Abraham can't win on points against Pavlik, because Pavlik has such a high punch output and workrate, it's not human, and Abrahams's biggest weakness is his stamina which is really crap.

[booradley]

I think Arthur's punching power is somewhat over-rated. He has made short work of many "C" and "D" level fighters, but Eastman, Jantuah, and Miranda took him the full 12.

Pavlik, on the other hand, has the better resume', and he has only been past 9 rounds 1 time. Pavlik's last 6 opponents all got KTFO. Yes JT made the distance in the second fight, but we all saw what happened in th first. Out of those 6 opponents 5 had never been stopped before they got pavlikated!

Pavlik is a better puncher than Abraham. He's a better boxer. He has better stamina. He is WAY bigger than Abraham. Arthur throws 30 punches a round. Pavlik shoots for 100 punches per round and sometimes makes that mark. Arthur spends loads of time laying on the ropes, or in the corner. MAN that is right where Pavlik wants him! Styles make fights. Abraham would have to change pretty much everything he does in the ring to beat Pavlik. Kelly forces opponnents to fight every second of every round. If you try to lay on the ropes or hide in the corner, you're dead meat.

Pavlik KO7 Abraham.

[warrior85]

pavlik decision

[Tom_Tocca]

I think Arthur's punching power is somewhat over-rated. He has made short work of many "C" and "D" level fighters, but Eastman, Jantuah, and Miranda took him the full 12.

Pavlik, on the other hand, has the better resume', and he has only been past 9 rounds 1 time. Pavlik's last 6 opponents all got KTFO. Yes JT made the distance in the second fight, but we all saw what happened in th first. Out of those 6 opponents 5 had never been stopped before they got pavlikated!

Pavlik is a better puncher than Abraham. He's a better boxer. He has better stamina. He is WAY bigger than Abraham. Arthur throws 30 punches a round. Pavlik shoots for 100 punches per round and sometimes makes that mark. Arthur spends loads of time laying on the ropes, or in the corner. MAN that is right where Pavlik wants him! Styles make fights. Abraham would have to change pretty much everything he does in the ring to beat Pavlik. Kelly forces opponnents to fight every second of every round. If you try to lay on the ropes or hide in the corner, you're dead meat.

Pavlik KO7 Abraham.

blablabla - you have some points like the work-rate but most of this is pure nuthuggery.

Abraham has greater one-punch power - it's not given that he'll beat Miranda (or even do it in more convincing fashion than Pavlik) but if so we'll find out about both guys chin and power when they (Pavlik and Abraham) will fight each other.

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

I am kinda grateful that this fight isnt right away it would be horrible to go from arguing with the english to the germans in a close time frame

[booradley]

blablabla - you have some points like the work-rate but most of this is pure nuthuggery.

Abraham has greater one-punch power - it's not given that he'll beat Miranda (or even do it in more convincing fashion than Pavlik) but if so we'll find out about both guys chin and power when they (Pavlik and Abraham) will fight each other.

Tom -- I know you're a big AA fan, but come on, be honest! Abraham is the 2nd or 3rd best at 160. I'm undecided between Winky and AA, but they belong in the 2nd and 3rd spots under Pavlik. This is not an insult to AA. Styles makes fights, and stylistically pavlik is arthur's worst nightmare.

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

Tom -- I know you're a big AA fan, but come on, be honest! Abraham is the 2nd or 3rd best at 160. I'm undecided between Winky and AA, but they belong in the 2nd and 3rd spots under Pavlik. This is not an insult to AA. Styles makes fights, and stylistically pavlik is arthur's worst nightmare.


I will help you out Winky systematically destroys AA and wins unless its in germany then it is UD for AA. AA will not win against a named fight outside of Europe. Bet on it

[brooklyn1550]

Pavlik and Abraham is basically the only meaningful fight at 160 pounds. Wright seems to be out of the mix due to his inactivity and reluctance to sign on and fight somebody. Sturm, Sylvester, Duddy, Rubio, and the rest of the lot are just a level below and don't really pose a threat.

As far as an actual fight between them, I'd take Pavlik by decision. Abraham has a very low workrate, uses a turtle shell defense for most of the round, and explodes in flurries in the last third of the round. Pavlik would likely work behind his active jab, looking to cut off the ring, and get Abraham in the corner where he could split his guard. When Abraham explodes, Pavlik would have to box smart and not be willing to get into a slugfest. The problem for Pavlik is that he's never been shy about trading and would find himself hurt during the fight. However, with his recuperative abilities and heart, I see him surviving any rocky moments, outboxing Abraham for the majority of the fight, and swamping him with activity.

Pavlik UD

* Wouldn't be the least bit surprised with an Abraham knockout victory.

[Tom_Tocca]

Tom -- I know you're a big AA fan, but come on, be honest! Abraham is the 2nd or 3rd best at 160. I'm undecided between Winky and AA, but they belong in the 2nd and 3rd spots under Pavlik. This is not an insult to AA. Styles makes fights, and stylistically pavlik is arthur's worst nightmare.

You may have never seen Abraham's fight vs. Ikeke who was regarded as the no.3 in the division before his loss to AA. Ikeke had a big height advantage but was absolutely outclassed by AA as Abraham could easily close the distance to let go with his bombs.

I'll give you a point with Pavlik being likely to outwork Abraham but you never know with Arthur as he always fight's up to the class of competition he's faced.

So I'll won't call it a given fight for either side. You won't hear me say "Abraham KO's Pavlik without problems" b/c I have seen alot fights of BOTH fighters (nearly every fight from AA and Pavlik's televised fights from 2004 on).

[Hermit]

Abraham has a very low workrate, uses a turtle shell defense for most of the round, and explodes in flurries in the last third of the round.
I've said that before. Kelly is starting to get credit for his work rate. If the same judges scoring Taylor/Pavlik 1 and using the same criteria for the second fight, Kelly would have lost. (I didnt' agree with the scoring of the first fight myself though). I've already said, if AA thinks that will work outside Germany, he needs new trainers. He won't get past Miranda with a little flourish at the end of every round. Sure, the Germans oh and ah and the judges count it, but ain't gonna happen here. It shouldn't happen there!

* Wouldn't be the least bit surprised with an Abraham knockout victory.
I would for the reasons above. Plus, AA doesn't hit any harder than Miranda. Stewart says Kelly 'fights tall'. Not a big Stewart fan, but he has a point here. AA would have trouble closing the distance and not putting himself at risk while throwing. (edit to acknowledge what is said in the above post that was added as I typed) But that is why they have the fights. To find this stuff out. ;)

[Goose]

If Kelly fights smart he can win by a UD or even a knockout. Pavlik will need to use his jab alot in this fight and discourage Abraham from throwing anything crazy.

If Pavlik gets into a slugfest he will get knocked out. Abraham won't let a taller man bully him on the inside, its gonna be a counter left hand and lights out Kelly.