Prime Hopkins vs Prime Calzaghe

[pngo]

After watching this fight what you guys think the outcome would have been if they fought back in 1999-2001, which I think it was Hopkins prime.

[blood_lust]

Hopkins without question, especially after seeing this fight.

[EARL]

I'd favor Hopkins.

[41fever]

Of course Hopkins. Joe is still a great champion!

[KO Boxing]

Hopkins.

8-4, 9-3ish. Perhaps also with a knockdown.

[PopeJackson]

Hopkins would win easily. It was a good win for Joe tonight but prime for prime he could never beat Hopkins.

[Bummy Davis]

I was not impressed with a young version of B-Hop, he has been prime at 43, a late bloomer....he never had hard fights early on but never really had anyone to fight

[drvooh]

If Hopkins fights clean, no dirty tactics, no constant holding ( talk about Wald?, Hoppy does way more clinching ),, and if Joe has a good left hand, never injured...I pick Joe

[Fedor Em]

This is easy Hopkins had him down in the first. Rocked at the end of I believe the 4th or 5th and took 5 rounds off Joe. I had Calzaghe winning by a point 3 at the most. He won the fight but come on.

Jones>Hopkins>Toney>Calzaghe that is just the way it is.

[doug.ie]

you would never bet against a prime hopkins against calzaghe..

[Kegsy]

Prime Hopkins

[Punisher33]

Hopkins, after tonite it's easy to see who win prime for prime.

[Jnes]

Hopkins

[MasterCalzaghe]

I love the way so many Hopkins fans believe he'd still retain the experience and style he was not back then even though he clearly fought differently back then - even as recently as the Taylor fight - and wouldn't have had the waelth of experience he has now.

Makes me laugh.

[Bodysnatcher]

I'd say Hopkins.

I think Calzaghe ranking 4th after Jones, B-Hop and Toney is fair.

But only a blinkered type would say Calzaghe doesn't at least deserve to be named in and around that elite group.

[The Kurgan]

Calzaghe would win. Tonight's Calzaghe was a shadow of his former self, while Hopkins has improved in many respects.

If a faded Joe can beat Hopkins, a prime Calzaghe could stop him.

[Cookie]

People seem to be confusing when someone seals their signature wins with when someone is in their "prime".

[Lampley]

Hopkins. Clearly.

Tonight had no bearing on that. Bernard's ability to counter in his prime would be too much. He still mentally got the better of Joe tonight, but physically he isn't there anymore.

What got me in all the pre-fight buildup is that everyone wanted to slag off the Taylor fights, when that was *exactly* the reason Bernard wouldn't win. He can't put his hands and feet where his brain tells them to go. It was obvious in 2005, and it's even more apparent in 2008.

[MancMexican]

I think tonight we had neither man in their physical primes so I think its ridiculous to assume a prime bhop owns calzaghe. However, I agree that hopkins would've won.

[Jazzo]

Prime Hopkins would not have the experience to last 12 rounds with Calzaghe.

[Jazzo]

I see that the Hopkins fans will take great comfort in their fantasy matches.

[pecks]

Calzaghe. I believe the fight would have panned out in similar fashion to how it did tonight.

[Jazzo]

Calzaghe would win. Tonight's Calzaghe was a shadow of his former self, while Hopkins has improved in many respects.

If a faded Joe can beat Hopkins, a prime Calzaghe could stop him.

Bingo.

[Lampley]

Calzaghe would win. Tonight's Calzaghe was a shadow of his former self, while Hopkins has improved in many respects.

If a faded Joe can beat Hopkins, a prime Calzaghe could stop him.

You think? I strongly disagree.

Hopkins is very stiff and slow compared to what he was. The 99-01 version would have handled any version of Calzaghe. He's too tricky for him, because Joe always has made a ton of footwork mistakes.

It takes a great fighter to capitalize on them, but the ATGs -- Hopkins, Toney and certainly Jones among them -- would have beaten Joe, I think.

[Rock0052]

Calzaghe would win.

If Hopkins felt that good about his own chances at a younger age, he'd have taken the easy $3 million payday that came with homefield advantage in 2002.

[Cookie]

I see that the Hopkins fans will take great comfort in their fantasy matches.

I think some people would be more suited to Fight Night on the Playstation than real boxing.

[KO Boxing]

This poll is still a little too close for my liking.

[Jazzo]

I think some people would be more suited to Fight Night on the Playstation than real boxing.

That would be a bit too real for them I think.

Maybe Moralman's "Fantasy Warfare" is more their cup of tea.

[Jazzo]

You think? I strongly disagree.



Irrelevant.

[The Kurgan]

You think? I strongly disagree.

Hopkins is very stiff and slow compared to what he was. The 99-01 version would have handled any version of Calzaghe. He's too tricky for him, because Joe always has made a ton of footwork mistakes.

It takes a great fighter to capitalize on them, but the ATGs -- Hopkins, Toney and certainly Jones among them -- would have beaten Joe, I think.

He is stiffer, but I don't think he's lost much speed. He was never a speed demon to begin with.

What Hopkins has gained has been power and strength, exactly what gave him his success in this fight. Take them away from him, put him in with a better Calzaghe, and I can't see how Bernard could win.

[dodong]

I always thought that this fight will be more of a gauge to JC level.

Beatdown/domination of Hops (43) would have been seen from a legendary type of fighter.

[Jack]

Every time the fight broke out into a boxing match, Calzaghe got the better off it. No doubt about that. Sure, Hopkins ay have been faster and stronger, but he didn't have the same intelligence. The reason he kept in this fight for so long was the way he spoiled the bout. He clinched far too often, but it worked. It kept the fight close.

However, if this is prime Hopkins, I don't think he would do that. I think he'd try and outbox Calzaghe, which wouldn't work. Calzaghe has the better boxing skills and is faster.

Hopkins poses a much bigger risk, but, bizarrely, I think it could be more one-sided because of the styles.

Calzaghe UD, in an easier fight for him.

[See Me Flow]

Hops TKO.

[drvooh]

Prime Hopkins would not have the experience to last 12 rounds with Calzaghe. I'm glad you posted again= i look forwrd to your avatars :good

[LeadLeftHook]

Boxing really lacks young talent, we have old fighters still at the top of the division. I'm watching UFC now and they have 21,000 fans in Montreal.
UFC is for the young generation and its here to stay and it will overtake boxing

[LightningJoe]

People seem to be forgetting the energiser-bunny brawler-banger Calzaghe was around that point in time. Perhaps it's got something to do with not many people actually watching his fights from that period, whilst everyone was watching B-Hop.

[LightningJoe]

Boxing really lacks young talent, we have old fighters still at the top of the division. I'm watching UFC now and they have 21,000 fans in Montreal.
UFC is for the young generation and its here to stay and it will overtake boxing
Fuck off.

[drvooh]

[quote=Lampley]You think? I strongly disagree.

Hopkins is very stiff and slow compared to what he was. The 99-01 version would have handled any version of Calzaghe. He's too tricky for him, because Joe always has made a ton of footwork mistakes.

It takes a great fighter to capitalize on them, but the ATGs -- Hopkins, Toney and certainly Jones among them -- would have beaten Joe, I think.[/quote
I see your point, but experienced hopkins is more dangerous and tactfull than his prime, of course that may go for Joe too....
What made this fight so hard for Joe is that Hoppy didn't get aggressive, which is what joe likes,,,Joe ended up playing his game alot.
I think a match with Hopkins again, would favor Joe more because he would deal better the 2nd time around with nards elusiveness and counter punches..but to me, they both rule

[LeadLeftHook]

Fuck off.
FUck you bitch! Its a reality.

[Jazzo]

I'm glad you posted again= i look forwrd to your avatars :good

You are always pleased to see me :D

My signatures are also great :good

[drvooh]

Every time the fight broke out into a boxing match, Calzaghe got the better off it. No doubt about that. Sure, Hopkins ay have been faster and stronger, but he didn't have the same intelligence. The reason he kept in this fight for so long was the way he spoiled the bout. He clinched far too often, but it worked. It kept the fight close.

However, if this is prime Hopkins, I don't think he would do that. I think he'd try and outbox Calzaghe, which wouldn't work. Calzaghe has the better boxing skills and is faster.

Hopkins poses a much bigger risk, but, bizarrely, I think it could be more one-sided because of the styles.

Calzaghe UD, in an easier fight for him. Great post Jack, points well taken:good

[BobDigi5060]

Calzag would always be younger with better reflexes. Can't bank on Hopkins having success if it never happened so its anybodys fight after 2000.

[Lampley]

Irrelevant.

Thanks for that prime retort.

Hey, I think it's your move on Everquest. You don't want the Girga Band Pixes to steal your magical yatliwering potions again.

[Lampley]

He is stiffer, but I don't think he's lost much speed. He was never a speed demon to begin with.

What Hopkins has gained has been power and strength, exactly what gave him his success in this fight. Take them away from him, put him in with a better Calzaghe, and I can't see how Bernard could win.

The early Hopkins was very fast, IMO, but I agree that the true peak version didn't appear until he was in his early- to mid-30s and a little slower. Along with that, however, Calzaghe also improved outside of his 20s.

To me, the physical edge goes back and forth, and I favor Hopkins because he makes fewer mistakes and ultimately is better at timing than Calzaghe, who plays to a tempo that could be disrupted by the right guy. The old man Hopkins disrupts that by holding, while the younger one does it with punches and rough-housing.

But we'll never know, and I'm certainly not one to dismiss Calzaghe.

[jaycuban]

If you made this post after tonights fight, after seeing the way hopkins performed at 43, sorry to let you know, but you are a stupid boxing fan.

[chimba]

You have to be from Wales to vote for Calzaghe I understand that

otherwise.. youre a moron

[KO Boxing]

If you made this post after tonights fight, after seeing the way hopkins performed at 43, sorry to let you know, but you are a stupid boxing fan.
And yet it's still only 60-40 right now. :-( :huh

[The Kurgan]

The early Hopkins was very fast, IMO, but I agree that the true peak version didn't appear until he was in his early- to mid-30s and a little slower. Along with that, however, Calzaghe also improved outside of his 20s.

To me, the physical edge goes back and forth, and I favor Hopkins because he makes fewer mistakes and ultimately is better at timing than Calzaghe, who plays to a tempo that could be disrupted by the right guy. The old man Hopkins disrupts that by holding, while the younger one does it with punches and rough-housing.

But we'll never know, and I'm certainly not one to dismiss Calzaghe.

I think Hopkins punching with Joe would be very dangerous for him. He certainly wanted no part of it.

[Lampley]

I think Hopkins punching with Joe would be very dangerous for him. He certainly wanted no part of it.

Tonight shouldn't have anything to do with it. Hopkins didn't want any part of punching with Taylor, either, and you won't find many who think Taylor could have seriously troubled a prime Hopkins.

And Bernard never truly punched with anyone. His brilliance was casting the illusion that trading was happening, but in fact he was an agitation counterpuncher, always using his aggression to set up a counter, rather than truly take the lead.

Like I said, though, if you favor Calzaghe in that matchup, no problem.

[TFFP]

People have to understand this would be a VERY different fight to the one you saw today

Hopkins has changed a great deal. He wouldn't foul as much, so potentially the fight would have more of a flow, which could suit Calzaghe. He also doesn't have quite the ring smarts or experience he has today

Another point is Joe is not at his peak tonight, he has detiorated these last few years

Stylistic advantage goes to Hopkins

Verdict: Very close fight

[Scar]

Hopkins, he'll just have the speed/power and stamina for 12 rounds without the need of taking low blow breaks nor rounds off to be able to fire more, he would just be as active as Calzaghe and possibly knock him out. You think if it was the young Hopkins he would've let Calzaghe breath after that knock down and wait?, I don't think so judging from his older fights. Remember the fight with Echols where he was thrown down, dislocated his shoulder and STILL continued and knocked the guy out. That's the determination a young Hopkins brings without the need of desperate low blow breaks which sadly he did and is justified considering his age.

[See Me Flow]

Hopkins, he'll just have the speed/power and stamina for 12 rounds without the need of taking low blow breaks nor rounds off to be able to fire more, he would just be as active as Calzaghe and possibly knock him out. You think if it was the young Hopkins he would've let Calzaghe breath after that knock down and wait?, I don't think so judging from his older fights. Remember the fight with Echols where he was thrown down, dislocated his shoulder and STILL continued and knocked the guy out. That's the determination a young Hopkins brings without the need of desperate low blow breaks which sadly he did and is justified considering his age.

Very true. :good

[The Kurgan]

Tonight shouldn't have anything to do with it. Hopkins didn't want any part of punching with Taylor, either, and you won't find many who think Taylor could have seriously troubled a prime Hopkins.

And Bernard never truly punched with anyone. His brilliance was casting the illusion that trading was happening, but in fact he was an agitation counterpuncher, always using his aggression to set up a counter, rather than truly take the lead.

Like I said, though, if you favor Calzaghe in that matchup, no problem.

It's a pretty amazing assertion to claim that a fight between boxers at one comparative stage of their career isn't applicable to a fight at another.

[El Matador]

Hopkins, he'll just have the speed/power and stamina for 12 rounds without the need of taking low blow breaks nor rounds off to be able to fire more, he would just be as active as Calzaghe and possibly knock him out. You think if it was the young Hopkins he would've let Calzaghe breath after that knock down and wait?, I don't think so judging from his older fights. Remember the fight with Echols where he was thrown down, dislocated his shoulder and STILL continued and knocked the guy out. That's the determination a young Hopkins brings without the need of desperate low blow breaks which sadly he did and is justified considering his age. I would pick Hopkins on a stoppage; Joe was hurt twice in this fight by an aged warrior.

If they were both prime, there would be a little more action, a little less clinching, oh, and a lot less low-blow breaks (!).

I would have to side with the executioner.

[Scar]

I love the way so many Hopkins fans believe he'd still retain the experience and style he was not back then even though he clearly fought differently back then - even as recently as the Taylor fight - and wouldn't have had the waelth of experience he has now.

Makes me laugh.

You know what makes me laugh?, apes like you.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There you go, roll that and smoke it. Wasn't that supposed to be happen to the "old" man going in vs the "supernatural"?, I thought all Calzaghe fans said it, what happened?
I've heard ENDLESS "Calzaghe by brutal KO or one-sided punishing UD" SO many times that I started to BELIEVE it, then the first round dings and... look at the picture.

[Scar]

I would pick Hopkins on a stoppage; Joe was hurt twice in this fight by an aged warrior.

If they were both prime, there would be a little more action, a little less clinching, oh, and a lot less low-blow breaks (!).

I would have to side with the executioner.

Same here, according the majority of Calzaghe fans it was Hopkins who was supposed to be on the canvas and as soon as Calzaghe lands. This fight is enough proof that supernatural or superman his self, you'll still struggle vs Hopkins and if you win, then yes it is worth celebrating and bragging about.

[Lampley]

It's a pretty amazing assertion to claim that a fight between boxers at one comparative stage of their career isn't applicable to a fight at another.

Not really so amazing.

First, Hopkins is far more diminished than Calzaghe. He lost a pair of decisions to Jermain Taylor three years ago -- he hasn't been prime for quite a while.

Also, in the event two fighters are equally diminished, the entire head-to-head dynamic can change based on that slippage. Hagler and Leonard both were declined in 1987, but that doesn't mean Leonard would come up to 160 in 1981 and defeat Hagler.

[Farmboxer]

Calzaghe would have beaten Hopkins.

[hellblazer]

Prime Hopkins

[KO Boxing]

This IS a public poll, remember.

Hopkins was as close to 50 as to Calzaghe's age, 36. His stamina has been an issue for YEARS, notwithstanding only fighting once a year.

Hops is an AWESOME operator at 43, don't get me wrong, but to consider him better now than he was in his prime?

It's a slap in the face to Bernard Hopkins.

[Spitbucket]

This is a tough one for me!

Hopkins is not-prime but neither is JC and after this performance I can definitely see Calzaghe as a bigger challenge to a prime Hops than anyone(with the possible execption of RJJr)

Might give Calzaghe the slight edge!

[Rock0052]

Not really so amazing.

First, Hopkins is far more diminished than Calzaghe. He lost a pair of decisions to Jermain Taylor three years ago -- he hasn't been prime for quite a while.
I still think had that fight (Taylor-Hopkins) taken place at a higher weight, Hopkins would've beat him. Though Hopkins was 2 years younger, this was a better version that Calzaghe fought because he didn't have to worry about the weight drain. By the end of his middleweight reign, it was clearly making him a weaker fighter.

[Fedor Em]

This IS a public poll, remember.

Hopkins was as close to 50 as to Calzaghe's age, 36. His stamina has been an issue for YEARS, notwithstanding only fighting once a year.

Hops is an AWESOME operator at 43, don't get me wrong, but to consider him better now than he was in his prime?

It's a slap in the face to Bernard Hopkins.

Outstanding post:good

[The Kurgan]

Hops is an AWESOME operator at 43, don't get me wrong, but to consider him better now than he was in his prime?


But Joe is in his prime now, right? :roll:

The double-standards on this forum are laughable.

[RUSKULL]

This IS a public poll, remember.

Hopkins was as close to 50 as to Calzaghe's age, 36. His stamina has been an issue for YEARS, notwithstanding only fighting once a year.

Hops is an AWESOME operator at 43, don't get me wrong, but to consider him better now than he was in his prime?

It's a slap in the face to Bernard Hopkins.

............and Calzagne had 100 more "slaps" to his credit tonight! :good

I don't believe Joe is in his prime anymore either, but his stamina has always been excellent & he can still outwork & outspeed any boxer.

[RUSKULL]

But Joe is in his prime now, right? :roll:

The double-standards on this forum are laughable.

Exactly. :cool:

[CarltonBlues]

A young Hopkins would have kept up the clinic he was putting on early.

[KO Boxing]

But Joe is in his prime now, right? :roll:

The double-standards on this forum are laughable.
And I said Joe was prime... Where?

[LiamE]

Hopkins didn't show his age, if anything Joe has slipped more in the last 6 months or so since Kessler.

Joe would in prime for prime in much the same fight.

[The Kurgan]

And I said Joe was prime... Where?

It's what you didn't say rather than what you said. You leapt in to point out that Hopkins isn't in his prime, but didn't make the same point in favour of Calzaghe.

[Spitbucket]

This IS a public poll, remember.

Hopkins was as close to 50 as to Calzaghe's age, 36. His stamina has been an issue for YEARS, notwithstanding only fighting once a year.

Hops is an AWESOME operator at 43, don't get me wrong, but to consider him better now than he was in his prime?

It's a slap in the face to Bernard Hopkins.


What the hell are you talking about, Calzaghe is closer to 40 than Hopkins is to 50, they're both past their prime.

"His stamina has been an issue for YEARS".............since when:patsch

[KO Boxing]

It's what you didn't say rather than what you said. You leapt in to point out that Hopkins isn't in his prime, but didn't make the same point in favour of Calzaghe.
It was in response to other responses in this thread.

I had already made my opinion clear on who I think would win, prime for prime.

And yes, I do feel that Hopkins is more removed from his prime than Calzaghe... Perhaps not expierence-wise, but output wise. Which against Calzaghe, is his worst attribute.

[PATSYS]

Prime Hopkins would be an easier fight for Calzaghe.

Hopkins these days fights very ugly. But he has a convenient excuse to do so - his age.

[Rock0052]

"His stamina has been an issue for YEARS".............since when:patsch

Must be referring to the Taylor fights when the weight draining was weakening him.

[KO Boxing]

What the hell are you talking about, Calzaghe is closer to 40 than Hopkins is to 50, they're both past their prime.

"His stamina has been an issue for YEARS".............since when:patsch
Think a bit more before you let words out of your mouth (or onto your computer).

Hopkins is 43. Add 7 years, he's 50. Minus 7 years, he's 36.

SOOOOO...

Hopkins is AS CLOSE to 50 as he is to Joe's OWN age, 36... Got it, numb nuts?

[Spitbucket]

I'll repeat it just in case you missed it the first time:

Calzaghe is closer to 40 than Hopkins is to 50:deal


.... insults give your posts so much more substance:hi:

[KO Boxing]

I'll repeat it just in case you missed it the first time:

Calzaghe is closer to 40 than Hopkins is to 50:deal


And insults give your posts so much more substance:hi:
:huh

Why even mention that.

I made MY comment, to which you replied with a "What the f u c k are you talking about?"

Well, THIS is what I was talking about. Hops is as close to 50 as he is to Joe's age. Joe being closer to 40 than Hops is to 50, means what, exactly?

[See Me Flow]

I'll repeat it just in case you missed it the first time:

Calzaghe is closer to 40 than Hopkins is to 50:deal


.... insults give your posts so much more substance:hi:

But 36 in not 43. :nut

[Bonecrusher]

Hopkins would win.

[Spitbucket]

:huh

Why even mention that.

I made MY comment, to which you replied with a "What the f u c k are you talking about?"

Well, THIS is what I was talking about. Hops is as close to 50 as he is to Joe's age. Joe being closer to 40 than Hops is to 50, means what, exactly?

Means the same crap as "Hopkins was as close to 50 as to Calzaghe's age, 36."

My point was that the way you worded it was simply biased towards Hops:deal

[JonOli]

A 43 year old Hopkins mashed up prime Calzaghe who won on a in the balance decision.

Prime Hopkins wins

[Spitbucket]

But 36 in not 43. :nut


A Math major eh:hi:

[KO Boxing]

Means the same crap as "Hopkins was as close to 50 as to Calzaghe's age, 36."

My point was that the way you worded it was simply biased towards Hops:deal
Okay, I can see where this was going.

Nothing I said was NOT true, though. Comparing Joe being close to 40 and Hops being close to 50, is unfair. You can see that, right? 50 is 10 years older than 40... Saying Hops is 7 yeas off 50 and 7 years older than Calzaghe though, is fact. Again, that's pretty obvious to me.

[Axe]

Prime Hopkins would win, approximately in the 116-112 range.

[Beebs]

Prime Hopkins would never fucking fight Calzaghe, he's not a fucking welterweight, so that pretty much rules him out as a Bhop opponent.