What's Calzaghe's best win?

[SleazeNation]

So, after his first win in America and his biggest name opponent...

Which victory is Calzaghe's most impressive as we look back over the "career" so far?

[brown bomber]

So, after his first win in America and his biggest name opponent...

Which victory is Calzaghe's most impressive as we look back over the "career" so far? Sleaze... once again your a cunt... but good work! lol

[dan-b]

I'm not getting involved in this.

[TFFP]

Ignoring the obvious bitterness, I say Kessler

[SleazeNation]

Ignoring the obvious bitterness, I say Kessler
I'd agree with that. Kessler is strong.

I'm not bitter. I am, however, disappointed in his opposition.

[LiamE]

Hopkins is his best win.

Lacy and Kessler were his best performances.

[Healy]

Kessler

[stake501]

Hopkins is his best win.

Lacy and Kessler were his best performances.

ditto..except i have to add eubank as well to best wins

[BIG WORM]

the best name on his record is hopkins, sneaky fucker!!!!!!!!! Bernard hopkins would kill josephine if he was in his prime

[LiamE]

ditto..except i have to add eubank as well to best wins

Yup - I have his Eubank win as the 2nd best on my list.

[Benjiabc]

the best name on his record is hopkins, sneaky fucker!!!!!!!!! Bernard hopkins would kill josephine if he was in his prime


fight would have been completely different if hopkins was in his prime, he may have came forward more, therefore actually allowing joe to box

[SleazeNation]

the difference is that Joe was a much harder puncher in his respective prime. hopkins wasn't so crafty at countering then either and was more likely to get into a tear up.

Hopkins isn't a Toney-like counter puncher: he's done well with his talents, but he wouldn't cope well with prime Joe's combination of speed and power.
Did you just say Calzaghe was a much harder puncher than Hopkins in their prime?

Who did Calzaghe ever stop?
beat Glen Johnson, Tito and Oscar... no one else stopped those guys ever, not Roy Jones, not Taver. Bernard's prime consisted of him stopping great fighters.

One difference between Joe and Bernard is Bernard actually has some power.

[kurt2006]

Did you just say Calzaghe was a much harder puncher than Hopkins in their prime?

Who did Calzaghe ever stop?
beat Glen Johnson, Tito and Oscar... no one else stopped those guys ever, not Roy Jones, not Taver. Bernard's prime consisted of him stopping great fighters.

One difference between Joe and Bernard is Bernard actually has some power.

Fck off, another thread where you write shit so discredit the current greatest British champ so you can blow Hattons trumpet in other threads.

JC put Eubanks on his bottom and Eubanks had a granite chin. Bernie stopped blown up lightweights. The only great MW he faced in RJJ and he lost. Next great he fought (JC) he loses again.

[SleazeNation]

Fck off, another thread where you write shit so discredit the current greatest British champ so you can blow Hattons trumpet in other threads.

JC put Eubanks on his bottom and Eubanks had a granite chin. Bernie stopped blown up lightweights. The only great MW he faced in RJJ and he lost. Next great he fought (JC) he loses again.
Simply a post about power that one, I'm not sure whether flux meant it like it sounded, but anyone who says Calzaghe has more power than Hopkins must be crazy. imo.

[David UK]

Which is Hopkins best win against an elite fighter of his own size? Roy Jones? Jermain Taylor? Calzaghe?

[SleazeNation]

Which is Hopkins best win against an elite fighter of his own size? Roy Jones? Jermain Taylor? Calzaghe?
At 42 years old, stepping up two weight classes and beating up the light heavyweight champion is a remarkable acheivement for a guy who wasn't even big at middleweight.
Also, the way he beat Glen Johnson hasn't been matched by anyone; he destoyed a bad motherf*cker in a beautiful way.

He also had the heart to fight a prime Roy Jones.

Respect.

[brown bomber]

At 42 years old, stepping up two weight classes and beating up the light heavyweight champion is a remarkable acheivement for a guy who wasn't even big at middleweight.
Also, the way he beat Glen Johnson hasn't been matched by anyone; he destoyed a bad motherf*cker in a beautiful way.

He also had the heart to fight a prime Roy Jones.

Respect.:good

[TFFP]

Actually, Hopkins was always a big middleweight, especially as he got older. The only reason the Taylor fights were close was because he was weight drained

But yes, it was a great achievement, especially since Tarver proved me wrong. He wasn't as bad as I thought, and Hopkins dominated him

[brown bomber]

He was considering a move down to light middle and often came in well inside the limit.

[SleazeNation]

He was considering a move down to light middle and often came in well inside the limit.
Beat me to it, big middleweights do not weigh in 156 at 39 years old.

[TFFP]

Hopkins is a big man. He carries that weight better than Joe, if you look at his physique

He keeps his weight down because he trains harder than anybody in the sport, and doesn't bulge between fights. He's old school

[Polymath]

Beat me to it, big middleweights do not weigh in 156 at 39 years old.

Hopkins was a huge middleweight, which I'm basing onwhat I can see with my two eyes :lol:

The fact he was always very disciplined and made the weight easily doesnt mean he was small.

Theres a differnce between 'struggling to make weight', and being too big for the weight :deal

[Beatboxer]

At 42 years old, stepping up two weight classes and beating up the light heavyweight champion is a remarkable acheivement for a guy who wasn't even big at middleweight.
Also, the way he beat Glen Johnson hasn't been matched by anyone; he destoyed a bad motherf*cker in a beautiful way.

He also had the heart to fight a prime Roy Jones.

Respect.

:rofl

OK it is a big achievement to take the belt at LHW but he was a sizeable middleweight and he has even been quoted as saying that!

The heart to fight RJJ in 1992? Who the fuck was Roy Jones in the pro's in 1992? He had did fuck all! Nothing! RJJ? Nothing!

He only realllly made his name when he beat James Toney in 1994.

Someone hasn't been studying their box rec hard enough. Probably felt safe with Jones: everyone calls him superman so Hopkins must have showed serious guts to face him! Whoops :rofl

[SleazeNation]

:rofl

OK it is a big achievement to take the belt at LHW but he was a sizeable middleweight and he has even been quoted as saying that!

The heart to fight RJJ in 1992? Who the fuck was Roy Jones in the pro's in 1992? He had did fuck all! Nothing! RJJ? Nothing!

He only realllly made his name when he beat James Toney in 1994.

Someone hasn't been studying their box rec hard enough. Probably felt safe with Jones: everyone calls him superman so Hopkins must have showed serious guts to face him! Whoops :rofl
Roy Jones Junior was hyped to f*ck when he fought Hopkins. It was a one horse race as far as the promotion was concerned. He was Olympic silver (basically gold) medalist and he was fighting for his first world title.

But of course, you know best, so he must have been "nothing!" then. :patsch

[Beatboxer]

Roy Jones Junior was hyped to f*ck when he fought Hopkins. It was a one horse race as far as the promotion was concerned. He was Olympic silver (basically gold) medalist and he was fighting for his first world title.

But of course, you know best, so he must have been "nothing!" then. :patsch

Did you not see what I said what had Jones did in the PROS

Exactly. A clash of two prospects. It was hardly as if Hopkins was doing a Vargas vs Tito or something you moron.

Hey Amir Khan is a silver medalist would it be brave of (insert lightweight) to take him on if they were at a similar stage in their career!

[SleazeNation]

Did you not see what I said what had Jones did in the PROS

Exactly. A clash of two prospects. It was hardly as if Hopkins was doing a Vargas vs Tito or something you moron.
I respect Hopkins for fighting Roy Jones, you obviously don't. That's settled that then.

You respect Calzaghe for fighting no great fighters in their prime, I don't. That's ok then.

:good

[Fat Joe]

To quote the great man himself, "At the end of the day" Calzaghe was the one stepping up in weight.

[SleazeNation]

To quote the great man himself, "At the end of the day" Calzaghe was the one stepping up in weight.
To fight a career long middleweight. Agreed.

[Beatboxer]

I respect Hopkins for fighting Roy Jones, you obviously don't. That's settled that then.

You respect Calzaghe for fighting no great fighters in their prime. I don't. That's ok then.

:good

AHHHHH :lol:

Spin spin revisionism.

My example stands mate. There was little in the way of Hopkins being brave as opposed to being logical to take Jones on at that juncture in their careers!

I suppose Mitchell would be brave if he took on Khan in that case:nut

[SleazeNation]

AHHHHH :lol:

Spin spin revisionism.

My example stands mate. There was little in the way of Hopkins being brave as opposed to being logical to take Jones on at that juncture in their careers!

I suppose Mitchell would be brave if he took on Khan in that case:nut
Yeah, I'd have a lot of respect for Mitchell if he fought Khan. Good example.

[Fat Joe]

Question for SleazeNation (I'll leave dan-b out of it, he's a lost cause) is there anything Calzaghe can do before he retires to change your opinion of him?

[Beatboxer]

Yeah, I'd have a lot of respect for Mitchell if he fought Khan. Good example.

Its less brave than logical though.

Both at similar stages in their career. Both unbeaten prospects it makes sense to fight for a vacant title against an unproven opponent in that respect.

What im saying is your using the Jones fight as an example of bravery only in the context of what he went on to achieve.

He had did little in the pros at that point to make fighting him if you were a prospect such as Bernard Hopkins super brave. It was simply logic.

Get it? Had Jones crashed and burned following that then of course you wouldn't be saying it was a brave decision to fight him.

[SleazeNation]

Question for SleazeNation (I'll leave dan-b out of it, he's a lost cause) is there anything Calzaghe can do before he retires to change your opinion of him?
If there was a way Calzaghe could prove himself I would still be a massive fan of the guy, still wanting him to get the biggest fight and win it to prove his greatness. No doubt about it.

The reason I am really annoyed with him is for letting all of his biggest challenges disappear over a period of 10 years while he was fighting nobody's in Britain. I don't hate him as a fighter, I just hate what he did with his career.

[Fat Joe]

Mitchell V Khan = Delaney V Calzaghe. A fight Calzaghe took and won in a hostile environment.

[Fat Joe]

IfThe reason I am really annoyed with him is for letting all of his biggest challenges disappear over a period of 10 years while he was fighting nobody's in Britain. I don't hate him as a fighter, I just hate what he did with his career.

You heard him say last night boxing is all about politics, he could have done more to get big fights, but it is not as clear cut as you make out.

[Beatboxer]

You heard him say last night boxing is all about politics, he could have done more to get big fights, but it is not as clear cut as you make out.

Don't try and reason with him, hes a lost cause.

[SleazeNation]

Its less brave than logical though.

Both at similar stages in their career. Both unbeaten prospects it makes sense to fight for a vacant title against an unproven opponent in that respect.

What im saying is your using the Jones fight as an example of bravery only in the context of what he went on to achieve.

He had did little in the pros at that point to make fighting him if you were a prospect such as Bernard Hopkins super brave. It was simply logic.

Get it? Had Jones crashed and burned following that then of course you wouldn't be saying it was a brave decision to fight him.
It was one example of Bernard's courage that I believe stands up... but I'm only comparing Hopkins and Calzaghe here.

In boxing as a whole, Hopkins doesn't impress me with his career choices very much at all. But compared to Calzaghe - Bernard is a f*cking hero.

[SleazeNation]

Mitchell V Khan = Delaney V Calzaghe. A fight Calzaghe took and won in a hostile environment.
Delaney was not a Olympic silver medalist and he wasn't a superstar in waiting. Khan and Roy Jones turned professional as probable future greats.

[Beatboxer]

Delaney was not a Olympic silver medalist and he wasn't a superstar in waiting. Khan and Roy Jones turned professional as probable future greats.

I suppose Danny Williams was brave getting in with Audley Harrison then on the basis of amateur success alone then.

[SleazeNation]

You heard him say last night boxing is all about politics, he could have done more to get big fights, but it is not as clear cut as you make out.
My main issue is not even fighting at light heavyweight when the p4p #1 was there for years and years when Joe was super middleweight champion. There are other things he never did aswell, but that's the key point he didn't even attempt. I have a problem with that.

[SleazeNation]

I suppose Danny Williams was brave getting in with Audley Harrison then on the basis of amateur success alone then.
Not so much, Audley wasn't some young amazing talent that was going to destroy him, and Danny had already lost to Klischko, Samil Sam and Sprott in the previous couple of years. He didn't have a lot to lose.

But Danny has my respect for going in with Vitali amongst other things. Big respect.

[Beatboxer]

Not so much, Audley wasn't some young amazing talent that was going to destroy him, and Danny had already lost to Klischko, Samil Sam and Sprott in the previous couple of years. He didn't have a lot to lose.

But Danny has my respect for going in with Vitali amongst other things. Big respect.

See thats the thing and I think we could perhaps for once come to an understanding here in this case, I go on what people have actually did considering the calibre of their opposition before I attach status to them whereas it seems that as long as a guy has a bit of a track record in the AMs and looks good destroying tomato cans and what not, you consider this to be a major challenge.

I think I get you now.

[SleazeNation]

See thats the thing and I think we could perhaps for once come to an understanding here in this case, I go on what people have actually did considering the calibre of their opposition before I attach status to them whereas it seems that as long as a guy has a bit of a track record in the AMs and looks good destroying tomato cans and what not, you consider this to be a major challenge.

I think I get you now.
You have to be a special amateur to turn pro as a superstar. To some extent Oscar, Roy Jones, and over here Khan are the only examples I can think of recently who without fighting a pro fight deserved respect for being unusually impressive amatuers. If Khan was American I don't know whether he'd have the hype he did here; but for a British amatuer, we've barely seen a Khan ever.

Are you trying to get me off the Calzaghe subject? :lol:

[The taff]

I hate it when threads get started like this- Why didn't you just say which "bum" is this "bums" best performance.

[Beatboxer]

You have to be a special amateur to turn pro as a superstar. To some extent Oscar, Roy Jones, and over here Khan are the only examples I can think of recently who without fighting a pro fight deserved respect for being unusually impressive amatuers. If Khan was American I don't know whether he'd have the hype he did here; but for a British amatuer, we've barely seen a Khan ever.

Are you trying to get me off the Calzaghe subject? :lol:

:huh

Why would I want to do that? Im not a fan of self proclaimed ownages but ive decimated you pretty much every time we have came on to that topic.

And im not the only one thats said. Your responses are robotic, you never tailor them to the point or argument at hand.

[brown bomber]

:huh

Why would I want to do that? Im not a fan of self proclaimed ownages but ive decimated you pretty much every time we have came on to that topic.

And im not the only one thats said. Your responses are robotic, you never tailor them to the point or argument at hand. To be fair your one of the few people I really wouldn't bother arguing with. Good knowledge, well written and generally fair.

[housecat]

His best win??

45-0



:deal

[SleazeNation]

:huh

Why would I want to do that? Im not a fan of self proclaimed ownages but ive decimated you pretty much every time we have came on to that topic.

And im not the only one thats said. Your responses are robotic, you never tailor them to the point or argument at hand.
:verysad
My points are based on facts, the things that actually happened or didn't happen. You're arguments are based on rumours and worrying more about me than what the actual discussion is about.

[Beatboxer]

:verysad
My points are based on facts, the things that actually happened or didn't happen. You're arguments are based on rumours and worrying more about me than what the actual discussion is about.

Noooo.

Your posts are based on superifical assertions that any idiot looking at the general forum or box rec could have came up with.

Mines are based on exposing the many fallacies in your posts.

Im not the only one that does this though...Fluxstuff, Gaz....they have dissected your robotic posts many times also. They are just a bit more gentle about it than I am :yep

[Beatboxer]

To be fair your one of the few people I really wouldn't bother arguing with. Good knowledge, well written and generally fair.

Cheers mate. I like a debate and sometimes if its clear im getting my ass kicked ill concede certain points and review my own point of view.

To me, this is how you gain knowledge.

I will admit that sometimes I can be a bit biased in favour of certain fighters...I try to keep this in check but near to a big fight like last night it can be near impossible. I think I did OK this time round on that front though mind.

[SleazeNation]

Noooo.

Your posts are based on superifical assertions that any idiot looking at the general forum or box rec could have came up with.

Mines are based on exposing the many fallacies in your posts.

Im not the only one that does this though...Fluxstuff, Gaz....they have dissected your robotic posts many times also. They are just a bit more gentle about it than I am :yep
So mentioning the people that Calzaghe fought and didn't fight are superfical assertions?

The only problem I have with Calzaghe is who he did fight, and particularly, who he didn't fight. I don't hate the man, I can't make up other reasons why he pisses me off, that's the only reason.
So that I've come to that conclusion looking at boxrec is your argument? How about tell me why Calzaghe fought nobody for 10 years and why you respect him for it instead of worrying about how my opinion was formed?

[Beatboxer]

So mentioning the people that Calzaghe fought and didn't fight are superfical assertions?

The only problem I have with Calzaghe is who he did fight, and particularly, who he didn't fight. I don't hate the man, I can't make up other reasons why he pisses me off, that's the only reason.
So that I've come to that conclusion looking at boxrec is your argument? How about tell me why Calzaghe fought nobody for 10 years and why you respect him for it insted of worrying about how my opinion was formed?

OK two minutes.

[Beatboxer]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Beatboxer]

I remember getting into an argument about Roy Jones shortly after I joined the board and getting utterly mushed. I happily admit I didn't know much about boxing then, but I just read and read and watch and watch. I'm a point now where I have a medium level knowledge.

But that all came from reading other posts and some of the really good posters.

Equally, I never repeat the same argument if people counter it - I'll try and reason it or I'll accept they have a point.

Sleazenation struggles with this notion mate.

Ill concede if I recognise im taking a battering and review my own position.

I happily admit ive only been a serious boxing fan since 2003 and that I have learned alot from these boards, especially in the early going. But most of my knowledge since then has been accumulated from watching fights, reading old articles etc etc etc.

[SleazeNation]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
That again! I've already said I think it's a lot a crap. But, I'll go over Roy one more time for you...


Roy Jones Junior - Was at 175 when Calzaghe made his way on to the world scene. Superman Roy however, back in the day before we all got a little nostalgic for him was constantly criticised for fightings shit opposition not on his level(as if anyone was) during his LHW reign. He didn't want to know about Joe...a guy with only a little American exposure...he represented all risk and no reward to this business man

Joe was "a guy with only only a little American exposure"...
So, for over 5 years when Joe didn't go to America or fight up a weight how was he ever going to get any American exposure, or get into a position to be an opponent for Roy?

I don't blame Roy for not wanting to fight a super middleweight who wasn't even recognised as #1 there, never fought at his weight, and never fought in America.

Roy fought "shit opposition", so what was Calzaghe waiting for? Go after a guy who is p4p #1 with no real challengers... it's obvious, but he just didn't want to.

[SleazeNation]

Sleazenation struggles with this notion mate.

Ill concede if I recognise im taking a battering and review my own position.

I happily admit ive only been a serious boxing fan since 2003 and that I have learned alot from these boards, especially in the early going. But most of my knowledge since then has been accumulated from watching fights, reading old articles etc etc etc.
You've only been a serious boxing fan since 2003. I understand now.

I have taken nearly 10 years of Calzaghe pissing good talent up the wall. I was a big fan for over 5 of them, but eventually it got too much for me to take.

No harm done, I would feel the same if I didn't have to sit through all his years of crap defences.:good

[brown bomber]

Sleazenation struggles with this notion mate.

Ill concede if I recognise im taking a battering and review my own position.

I happily admit ive only been a serious boxing fan since 2003 and that I have learned alot from these boards, especially in the early going. But most of my knowledge since then has been accumulated from watching fights, reading old articles etc etc etc. Think I'm a bit stuck in my ways too in this regard. I'll try and take on board what someone tells me but If I don't agree it really does take ownage of super human quality to change my mind.

[Beatboxer]

You've only been a serious boxing fan since 2003. I understand now.

I have taken nearly 10 years of Calzaghe pissing good talent up the wall. I was a big fan for over 5 of them, but eventually it got too much for me to take.

No harm done, I would feel the same if I didn't have to sit through all his years of crap.:good

*Yawns* OK OK as short and superfical your little posts are I can't be arsed reading them.

All Ill say is im far more respected by far more respectable posters than you are on this forum. 5 years is hardly an insubstantial amount of time either. I could give two fucks if you think my posts are shit because I know that you say this because of your twisted agenda against Calzaghe and thus ill never learn anything from you.

Your useless. :p

[Fat Joe]

There's a thread in general quoting Frank ****** saying they chased Jones for a fight. And it is well established BHop backed out, so politics has a lot to do with it.

[Beatboxer]

Think I'm a bit stuck in my ways too in this regard. I'll try and take on board what someone tells me but If I don't agree it really does take ownage of super human quality to change my mind.

Yeah man thats fair enough you at least give credit to people if they do have different views from you even if you don't agree.

This imbecile...christ he doesn't even know what his own views are!

[SleazeNation]

There's a thread in general quoting Frank ****** saying they chased Jones for a fight. And it is well established BHop backed out, so politics has a lot to do with it.
They "chased" Jones for a fight?
Why didn't they fight at light heavyweight. and actually make the fight a possiblity then?

Roy Jones never defended his world titles against an opponent who had never fought at the weight. So what is so special about the WBO super middleweight champion that wouldv'e made the p4p #1 fighter in the sport defend his light heavyweight title against him?
No name, no money, never fought at the weight...

[SleazeNation]

Yeah man thats fair enough you at least give credit to people if they do have different views from you even if you don't agree.

This imbecile...christ he doesn't even know what his own views are!
So I either repeat myself consistantly, or I don't "even know what my own views are"? :-( Doesn't make any sense.

and btw, I was being serious before - I'm not discrediting you for only following boxing for 5 years. I'm just saying you didn't have to sit through years of Calzaghe's "weak spell" of defending against nobody what-so-ever. You might feel differently if you had. Because it broke my heart as far as respect for him was concerned.

[Beatboxer]

So I either repeat myself consistantly, or I don't "even know what my own views are"? :-( Doesn't make any sense.

and btw, I was being serious before - I'm not discrediting you for only following boxing for 5 years. I'm just saying you didn't have to sit through years of Calzaghe's "weak spell" of defending against nobody what-so-ever. You might feel differently if you had. Because it broke my heart as far as respect for him was concerned.

Oh it does. You have automated responses in a certain thread.

But then another you will express a different view and repeat.

Can I ask why your not heartbroken over Hatton whom many argue did fuck all from 2001 to 2005 and even then many feel the timing of the fight (not me) was cynical in nature given Kostya's inactivity and decline?

[GazOC]

Wheres the "Kessler, a prime fighter who hadn't lost around until he fought Calzaghe" option?

[GazOC]

Wheres the "Kessler, a prime fighter who hadn't lost around until he fought Calzaghe" option?

[SleazeNation]

Oh it does. You have automated responses in a certain thread.

But then another you will express a different view and repeat.

Can I ask why your not heartbroken over Hatton whom many argue did fuck all from 2001 to 2005 and even then many feel the timing of the fight (not me) was cynical in nature given Kostya's inactivity and decline?
Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe were a waste of time for a period of years. When Hatton fought Pedersen I was as pissed off with him as much as Calzaghe. ****** being the main reason.

When Hatton finally got the fight with Tszyu and became champion, he left ****** and within a year had fought a welterweight world champion because all the names were in that division, notably the p4p #1. Something Calzaghe didn't do for the previous 10 years!

He continued to fight in America and call out Mayweather after his fights on HBO "Mayweather's station" or whatever Floyd called it.

Hatton did EVERYTHING possible to get Floyd into a fight, and he did it within 3 years of becoming champion. EVERYTHING Calzaghe didn't do for 10 years when Roy was the equivalent.

My respect for Hatton is #1, unequaled in British boxing. For giving me what I'd waited 10 years for Calzaghe to do. In a third of that time.

[jc]

Hopkins and Kessler were more skilled operators but Jeff Lacy was Calzaghes finest win, surely by the magnitude of people pickin Jeff to knock him out cold, to win every minute of every round, while being the underdog was mesmerising. The finest perforamce by any British fighter is any word title fight ever!

[Beatboxer]

Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe were a waste of time for a period of years. When Hatton fought Pedersen I was as pissed off with him as much as Calzaghe. ****** being the main reason.

When Hatton finally got the fight with Tszyu and became champion, he left ****** and within a year had fought a welterweight world champion because all the names were in that division, notably the p4p #1. Something Calzaghe didn't do for the previous 10 years!

He continued to fight in America and call out Mayweather after his fights on HBO "Mayweather's station" or whatever Floyd called it.

Hatton did EVERYTHING possible to get Floyd into a fight, and he did it within 3 years of becoming champion. EVERYTHING Calzaghe didn't do for 10 years when Roy was the equivalent.

My respect for Hatton is #1, unequaled in British boxing. For giving me what I'd waited 10 years for Calzaghe to do. In a third of that time.

How did you feel when Hatton only took the fight with a whole host of ready made excuses at his disposal?

When he rejected it 3 times when it would have been for the undisputed JNR Welter title citing the fact that he was not ready for it in late 2005...and only developed a huge urge to move to 147 when a certain Baldomir became champ.

Hey mate in regards to Hatton im quite balanced. But these are arguments that people have legitmately levelled against Hatton and they are not easily disspelled.

[TFFP]

Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe were a waste of time for a period of years. When Hatton fought Pedersen I was as pissed off with him as much as Calzaghe. ****** being the main reason.

When Hatton finally got the fight with Tszyu and became champion, he left ****** and within a year had fought a welterweight world champion because all the names were in that division, notably the p4p #1. Something Calzaghe didn't do for the previous 10 years!

He continued to fight in America and call out Mayweather after his fights on HBO "Mayweather's station" or whatever Floyd called it.

Hatton did EVERYTHING possible to get Floyd into a fight, and he did it within 3 years of becoming champion. EVERYTHING Calzaghe didn't do for 10 years when Roy was the equivalent.

My respect for Hatton is #1, unequaled in British boxing. For giving me what I'd waited 10 years for Calzaghe to do. In a third of that time.
Yet he never had the bollocks to step up the plate and fight a guy 50 miles down the road, at risk of upsetting the applecart

As far as I am aware Calzaghe never had a rival living down the road in Anglesey or some shit, that could have undermined my respect for him somewhat :yep

[Fat Joe]

Yet he never had the bollocks to step up the plate and fight a guy 50 miles down the road, at risk of upsetting the applecart

As far as I am aware Calzaghe never had a rival living down the road in Anglesey or some shit, that could have undermined my respect for him somewhat :yep

Calzaghe has always faced up to his domestic rivals, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall + Delaney.

[SleazeNation]

How did you feel when Hatton only took the fight with a whole host of ready made excuses at his disposal?

When he rejected it 3 times when it would have been for the undisputed JNR Welter title citing the fact that he was not ready for it in late 2005...and only developed a huge urge to move to 147 when a certain Baldomir became champ.

Hey mate in regards to Hatton im quite balanced. But these are arguments that people have legitmately levelled against Hatton and they are not easily disspelled.
Ready made excuses? He fought the p4p #1 fighter in the world outside of his own division. I don't care about excuses if they fight. The only excuses I have a problem with are ones about why you didn't fight.(Calzaghe)

Hatton rejected Floyd 3 times? did he?
He fought Mayweather, so rejecting serious contracts if offered previously is unlikely. Otherwise why try so hard to get a fight he'd already rejected? Doesn't hold much water imo.

He "only developed a huge urge to move to 147 when a certain Baldomir became champ" - he moved up to 147 within two fights of being 140 champion. he hardly waited for the perfect opportunity, he did it straight away.

They aren't strong arguments imo, and what resulted was THE biggest fight in boxing. I cannot argue with that, I cannot ask for any better.

[Beatboxer]

Calzaghe has always faced up to his domestic rivals, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall + Delaney.

Bullshit...he never faced Froch :fire


:rofl :rofl :rofl Joking.

Nah the Witter example is quite different. I in actual fact only really hold Hatton to task over it as of now. There are very cynical financial motivations behind Hattons choice of fights. That much is very clear to those that know a bit about boxing and its politics.

That is not to say he hasn't fought anyone or for that matter beat anyone of worth. He quite clearly has. He must fight Witter though sooner rather than later.

[TFFP]

Calzaghe has always faced up to his domestic rivals, Eubank, Reid, Woodhall + Delaney.
Exactly. People can say what they want about Joe, but at least he dealt with the guys in his own backyard

Hatton has never proven himself to be the best 140lb fighter in Britain. His whole 'rise to the top' has been smoke and mirrors stuff :yep

[Beatboxer]

Ready made excuses? He fought the p4p #1 fighter in the world outside of his own division. I don't care about excuses if they fight. The only excuses I have a problem with are ones about why you didn't fight.(Calzaghe)

Hatton rejected Floyd 3 times? did he?
He fought Mayweather, so rejecting serious contracts if offered previously is unlikely. Otherwise why try so hard to get a fight he'd already rejected? Doesn't hold much water imo.

He "only developed a huge urge to move to 147 when a certain Baldomir became champ" - he moved up to 147 within two fights of being 140 champion. he hardly waited for the perfect opportunity, he did it straight away.

They aren't strong arguments imo, and what resulted was THE biggest fight in boxing. I cannot argue with that, I cannot ask for any better.

You didn't know that? The Mayweather nuthuggers had a field day with it, all over the forum in 2005 direct links to Ray Hatton quotes. Hatton fans like myself at that time spluttered something about Ricky needing to build up his profile in the US etc etc

I can't be arsed getting into this one the now but I do promise Ill come back to you. I did an appraisal of Hattons career before. I think you will find we are very much in allignement in regards to Ricky Hatton.

[jc]

Junior Witter is not Hattons Carl Froch, he is hatton Mikkel Kessler. he simply has to fight him.

[SleazeNation]

Yet he never had the bollocks to step up the plate and fight a guy 50 miles down the road, at risk of upsetting the applecart

As far as I am aware Calzaghe never had a rival living down the road in Anglesey or some shit, that could have undermined my respect for him somewhat :yep
The only person who is bothered by this fight not happening is the one person Hatton WANTS to be bothered by it. Junior isn't happy. And as long as that's the case, Hatton doesn't care. From where I'm standing that's funny.

[Beatboxer]

Junior Witter is not Hattons Carl Froch, he is hatton Mikkel Kessler. he simply has to fight him.

Yeah mate I know I was having a laugh obviously.

Totally agree. Sleaze nation is right though. As long as Hatton has his band of moronic loyal Man City fans he will never be pressured into this fight.

[TFFP]

The only person who is bothered by this fight not happening is the one person Hatton WANTS to be bothered by it. Junior isn't happy. And as long as that's the case, Hatton doesn't care. From where I'm standing that's funny.
No, I think you'll find most people here want it to happen, with the exception of a few Hatton fanboys who are scared the smoke and mirrors career of Hatton will be exposed

If its funny to you that two guys from the same country can be ranked 1 and 2 in the same division without ever fighting each other due to politics you aren't a true boxing fan. 1 and 2 in the same fucking division. How ridiculous is that?

[SleazeNation]

You didn't know that? The Mayweather nuthuggers had a field day with it, all over the forum in 2005 direct links to Ray Hatton quotes. Hatton fans like myself at that time spluttered something about Ricky needing to build up his profile in the US etc etc

I can't be arsed getting into this one the now but I do promise Ill come back to you. I did an appraisal of Hattons career before. I think you will find we are very much in allignement in regards to Ricky Hatton.
Of course I'm aware of the situation, but it's contracts and who rejected or for what reason.

It's boxing bullsh*t that only the members involve KNOW, you can only judge on what fights happen. Hatton fought Mayweather.

[SleazeNation]

No, I think you'll find most people here want it to happen, with the exception of a few Hatton fanboys who are scared the smoke and mirrors career of Hatton will be exposed

If its funny to you that two guys from the same country can be ranked 1 and 2 in the same division without ever fighting each other due to politics you aren't a true boxing fan. 1 and 2 in the same fucking division. How ridiculous is that?
Witter is one of the belt holders of a division that Hatton is champion.
He is one of a group of fighters below Hatton, no more, no less.

[Beatboxer]

No, I think you'll find most people here want it to happen, with the exception of a few Hatton fanboys who are scared the smoke and mirrors career of Hatton will be exposed

If its funny to you that two guys from the same country can be ranked 1 and 2 in the same division without ever fighting each other due to politics you aren't a true boxing fan. 1 and 2 in the same fucking division. How ridiculous is that?

For the sake of Hatton's somewhat suspect legacy at 140 of course it has to happen. If he is a true 140lber like he always shouts that he is he needs to start cleaning up that division. Its not a very deep division in any case, the best fighters there are a Cotto featherfisted left over and Witter.

Its a no brainer to me that Hatton must fight Witter on the basis that hes the number 2 in the division alone. Never mind the British derby element of it.

[Beatboxer]

Witter is one of the belt holders of a division that Hatton is champion.
He is one of a group of fighters below Hatton, no more, no less.

He has fought and beaten the best opposition outside of Hatton in the weight class. He fully merits his shot.

[SleazeNation]

He has fought and beaten the best opposition outside of Hatton in the weight class. He fully merits his shot.
Hatton already fought one guy who knocked out Harris. Witter will need to do something a little bit more impressive than that.

[dan-b]

I thought this thread was about Calzaghe. Why are we having this same boring argument about Hatton again?

[SleazeNation]

I thought this thread was about Calzaghe. Why are we having this same boring argument about Hatton again?
It was Beatboxer. All his fault.

[Beatboxer]

Hatton already fought one guy who knocked out Harris. Witter will need to do something a little bit more impressive than that.

Ndou, Koetlnik, Harris, Corley.

These are all decent fighters. If Hatton is true to his word and stays at 140 who else is there to fight? Malinaggi does not have as impressive a resume. Baby bull was dethroned at 135 and has alot of work to do to get back.

Its a logical fight for many reasons. Witter deserves his shot. Who else is there for Hatton to fight at 140 in 'his' division?

[Fat Joe]

The difference between Hatton + Calzaghe is Hatton has his hordes of Man City Pissheads and he is media friendly. So he had less to lose from leaving Fwank. Plus his father is a businessman who understands finance. Calzaghe had a family to provide for and doesn't have the fan base or media profile of Hatton even though he is obviously the more talented. So i can't really knock him for staying with Fwank.

[Beatboxer]

I thought this thread was about Calzaghe. Why are we having this same boring argument about Hatton again?

Its OK Dan stick to my thread if you feel like having a logical debate about Calzaghe...this thread is purely for Calzaghe hate purposes and now with the resurrection of the Hatton issue that I do confess I brought up, excessive Hatton nuthugging by sleazy boy.

[TFFP]

Witter is one of the belt holders of a division that Hatton is champion.
He is one of a group of fighters below Hatton, no more, no less.
This is some classic delusional shit :patsch

Hatton's never had a chance to fight Witter right? He was too busy with greats like Phillips, Tackie, Oliveria, Vilches, Stewart, NEED I GO ON?

Maybe its 'no more no less' for you, but for a man whos actions are so often determined by how much money he makes, or how much exposure a fight gets I'd say the British element adds something. The American TV networks have expressed an interest, so that's that old chestnut out the window...

[SleazeNation]

The American TV networks have expressed an interest, so that's that old chestnut out the window...
Did you dream that? American TV wouldn't care if Witter dissappeared off the face of the earth. :lol:

[dan-b]

Its OK Dan stick to my thread if you feel like having a logical debate about Calzaghe...this thread is purely for Calzaghe hate purposes and now with the resurrection of the Hatton issue that I do confess I brought up, excessive Hatton nuthugging by sleazy boy.

Fair enough but should we really be giving this guy the time of day? We've tried telling him about why Hatton should fight Witter several times without success. Most reasonable fans see why the fight should happen.

[Beatboxer]

This is some classic delusional shit :patsch

Hatton's never had a chance to fight Witter right? He was too busy with greats like Phillips, Tackie, Oliveria, Vilches, Stewart, NEED I GO ON?

Maybe its 'no more no less' for you, but for a man whos actions are so often determined by how much money he makes, or how much exposure a fight gets I'd say the British element adds something. The American TV networks have expressed an interest, so that's that old chestnut out the window...

Hatton has always had many excuses for not fighting Witter...hes not got a world title....he can't draw flies...im not giving him a pay day...the American execs don't care...

Truth is, he knows there is a chance he might lose this fight and with it, not only his status as the best 140lber in the world but also as the best in Britain! Such a loss is less easy to shrug off than being beaten out of your natural weight class by PBF...

A Witter loss would hit his earning potential. Hatton wouldn't love that.

[Beatboxer]

Fair enough but should we really be giving this guy the time of day? We've tried telling him about why Hatton should fight Witter several times without success. Most reasonable fans see why the fight should happen.

True. By consensus, hes pretty much a top 3 worst poster on the British forum. I regret giving him the air time I did over the Calzaghe coward remark.

Ive said my piece on Hatton, no more.

[TFFP]

Did you dream that? American TV wouldn't care if Witter dissappeared off the face of the earth. :lol:
Yes, I'm sure thats the case. Given HBO wanted to take Witter vs Lazcano when it was mooted a while back, you really seem to have a clue what the hell you are on about...

[SleazeNation]

It's not even my opinion that Hatton shouldn't fight Witter.

I just think that Hatton has done so much more than Witter, he's fought better guys, he's the true champion, he has a much bigger fanbase, he brings all the money, he brings all the viewers... and on and on. That is it crazy to hear that Hatton "has to" fight this guy.

IMO, Hatton can do what the f*ck he likes. He earned it.

I like Witter too.

[Fat Joe]

I like Witter too.

:yikes

[mike464]

I think Kessler is his best win by far. Hopkins was 43 (although I still think any win over Hopkins is a good win) and Lacy wasn't really proven. Kessler had won a title, had some impressive defences and unified. He was also in his prime.

[Fat Joe]

I think Kessler is his best win by far. Hopkins was 43 (although I still think any win over Hopkins is a good win) and Lacy wasn't really proven. Kessler had won a title, had some impressive defences and unified. He was also in his prime.

If Kessler goes on to win more titles it will reflect very well on Calzaghe.

[mike464]

If Kessler goes on to win more titles it will reflect very well on Calzaghe.I don't like using what a fighter does after a fight to detract from or add to another guy's victory over him.

I don't like Lacy's crap performances since the Calzaghe fight being used to detract from Calzaghe's victory and I wouldn't like a decent win for Kessler being used to make Calzaghe look better.

The result of one fight always affects the fights after it. Lacy took one hell of a beating so of course he isn't going to be the same afterwards. Kessler hadn't been in with anyone as good as Calzaghe so maybe he'll learn from the fight and get confidence from pushing Joe so close.

[thespecialone]

So, after his first win in America and his biggest name opponent...

Which victory is Calzaghe's most impressive as we look back over the "career" so far?

Did you think about doing the same poll for Hopkins?

Trinidad - Blown up WW
De La Hoya - Blown up WW
Winky - Blown up LMW
Glen Johnson - Lost 6 of his next 10 fights
Tarver - Was 3-2 going into the fight

[SleazeNation]

Did you think about doing the same poll for Hopkins?

Trinidad - Blown up WW
De La Hoya - Blown up WW
Winky - Blown up LMW
Glen Johnson - Lost 6 of his next 10 fights
Tarver - Was 3-2 going into the fight
Not on a British forum, no.

[Robbi]

Quality of opponent and performance combined.

1. Mikkel Kessler
2. Bernard Hopkins
3. Jeff Lacy
4. Chris Eubank
5. Omar Shieka

[thespecialone]

Not on a British forum, no.

Didn't ask about what forum, just seems like a cheap shot at JC and i'm making the point Hopkins best wins aren't the greatest either!

[SleazeNation]

Didn't ask about what forum, just seems like a cheap shot at JC and i'm making the point Hopkins best wins aren't the greatest either!
I've never said Hopkins had a brilliant resume. However, compared to Calzaghe's it's a fantastic one.

He has wins over an unbeaten Felix Trinidad, an unbeaten Glen Johnson, De La Hoya, Tarver, Wright. And he fought an unbeaten Roy Jones, an unbeaten Taylor twice... it's basically a whos-whos of boxing for this era, and not one of them were 43 years old when he fought them.

Now, you can pick holes in Bernard's record - but if you do it to Hopkins, Calzaghe's record would have nothing left of it they'd be so many holes there.

[dwilson]

I've never said Hopkins had a brilliant resume. However, compared to Calzaghe's it's a fantastic one.

He has wins over an unbeaten Felix Trinidad, an unbeaten Glen Johnson, De La Hoya, Tarver, Wright. And he fought an unbeaten Roy Jones, an unbeaten Taylor twice... it's basically a whos-whos of boxing for this era, and not one of them were 43 years old when he fought them.

Now, you can pick holes in Bernard's record - but if you do it to Hopkins, Calzaghe's record would have nothing left of it they'd be so many holes there.


Hopkins lost to the who's who of the middle weight division and beat the who's who of the light middle and Welter weight divisions.


And one win against a wanna be actor.

Hopkins steps up and losers. Kinda like a good version of Howard Eastman.

[SleazeNation]

Hopkins lost to the who's who of the middle weight division and beat the who's who of the light middle and Welter weight divisions.


And one win against a wanna be actor.

Hopkins steps up and losers. Kinda like a good version of Howard Eastman.
So Hopkins doesn't get credit for beating former "light middle and welters", but Calzaghe's only name win is against an 43 year old former MIDDLEWEIGHT?

Like I said, you can pick Hopkins record apart. But then Calzaghe has no record.

[dwilson]

So Hopkins doesn't get credit for beating former "light middle and welters", but Calzaghe's only name win is against an 43 year old former MIDDLEWEIGHT?

Like I said, you can pick Hopkins record apart. But then Calzaghe has no record.

That is the biggest problem we have in boxing. I am sure we could take any top elite ATG fighter from history and tear there record to pieces. We can find fault with all wins and losses from anyone.

I am trying to keep out of the whole scene of debate's going off right now because all last weekends fight did for me was put the two best Light Heavy Weight fighters on the planet together and find a winner. No one can touch these two even at 43 and 36.

[SleazeNation]

That is the biggest problem we have in boxing. I am sure we could take any top elite ATG fighter from history and tear there record to pieces. We can find fault with all wins and losses from anyone.

I am trying to keep out of the whole scene of debate's going off right now because all last weekends fight did for me was put the two best Light Heavy Weight fighters on the planet together and find a winner. No one can touch these two even at 43 and 36.
No, you really couldn't because virtually all "top elite ATG fighters" fought prime great fighters.

Joe's beat two unproven young world champions, and two old champions who no one can say were prime.

6-8 years ago, if Calzaghe fought Roy Jones he'd deserve all the respect in the world. And if he beat Roy Jones he'd have been a legend, a really great British fighter.

It's a shame, but Calzaghe's record is crap compared to ANY ATG's.

[dwilson]

No, you really couldn't because virtually all "top elite ATG fighters" fought prime great fighters.

Joe's beat two unproven young world champions, and two old champions who no one can say were prime.

6-8 years ago, if Calzaghe fought Roy Jones he'd deserve all the respect in the world. And if he beat Roy Jones he'd have been a legend, a really great British fighter.

It's a shame, but Calzaghe's record is crap compared to ANY ATG's.


Yes you could. All you would need were a couple of free hours and boxrec plus a few boxing history books.

Name a good B-Hop win that can not be pulled apart?

[Dscaper]

Back on the original topic, I think his voctory against Lacy was one of the most dominant performances against a legitimate challenger in a good few years.

Now before you all jump in and say "Lacy is a bum" - you need to roll back to the moment that the first round started in that fight. Bookies had Lacy as a favourite, the hype (correctly hyped or not) was massive for Lacy, and a huge majority of people believed he'd walk over Joe.

Honestly? Alot of Lacy supports on here dropped him like a deaf kid playing musical chairs - unfairly so.

Now then, on the topic of resumes - everyone has duff fights, but at the end of the day there are only two things that really matter.

1. You beat the man in front of you there and then. Who, how, when mean nothing.

2. You beat a man with a better resume, then it's all for naught. They may as well be playing conkers for all it's worth.

Making statements like "Joe has no record" is just cheap and easy - anyone can throw out statements like that. If you want an honest answer to your "poll" sleaze', then ask an honest question. From the posts you've made, you come across as being alot more intelligent than to have asked a question like this. Raise your game.

[SleazeNation]

Yes you could. All you would need were a couple of free hours and boxrec plus a few boxing history books.

Name a good B-Hop win that can not be pulled apart?
As I've said quite a few times, I don't regard Hopkins record as a great one. Only when compared to a truly terrible one (Calzaghe's) does it look good.

[SleazeNation]

Back on the original topic, I think his voctory against Lacy was one of the most dominant performances against a legitimate challenger in a good few years.

Now before you all jump in and say "Lacy is a bum" - you need to roll back to the moment that the first round started in that fight. Bookies had Lacy as a favourite, the hype (correctly hyped or not) was massive for Lacy, and a huge majority of people believed he'd walk over Joe.

Honestly? Alot of Lacy supports on here dropped him like a deaf kid playing musical chairs - unfairly so.

Now then, on the topic of resumes - everyone has duff fights, but at the end of the day there are only two things that really matter.

1. You beat the man in front of you there and then. Who, how, when mean nothing.

2. You beat a man with a better resume, then it's all for naught. They may as well be playing conkers for all it's worth.

Making statements like "Joe has no record" is just cheap and easy - anyone can throw out statements like that. If you want an honest answer to your "poll" sleaze', then ask an honest question. From the posts you've made, you come across as being alot more intelligent than to have asked a question like this. Raise your game.
The poll is just a little bit fun, I couldn't help it. But I am actually interested in what people view as his best victory, considering there isn't a clear stand out brilliant one, imo.

[mattress]

As I've said quite a few times, I don't regard Hopkins record as a great one. Only when compared to a truly terrible one (Calzaghe's) does it look good.

You need therapy mate. Hate's gonna get ya.

[SleazeNation]

You need therapy mate. Hate's gonna get ya.
The only thing I hate is that he didn't go after his biggest challenges when they were there. It's disappointing to me.

This is what young fighters are watching. Calzaghe is an amazing, great boxer who has had a wonderful unbeaten career!
What do you want from future British boxers? To sit at home for 10 years while their biggest challenges get old or retire before they fight them?
How about Khan, how about he fights nobody until 2018, and then he fights a 41 year old Floyd Mayweather?
It's a example that Calzaghe and ****** have set and it's getting praised. Well, I'm not going to be quiet about that sh*t.

I want the future of British boxing to be Hatton's and Haye's - not guys who wait 10 years to fight old men. Sorry about that.

[TFFP]

The only thing I hate is that he didn't go after his biggest challenges when they were there. It's disappointing to me.

This is what young fighters are watching. Calzaghe is an amazing, great boxer who has had a wonderful unbeaten career!
What do you want from future British boxers? To sit at home for 10 years while their biggest challenges get old or retire before they fight them?
How about Khan, how about he fights nobody until 2018, and then he fights a 41 year old Floyd Mayweather?
It's a example that Calzaghe and ****** have set and it's getting praised. Well, I'm not going to be quiet about that sh*t.

I want the future of British boxing to be Hatton's and Haye's - not guys who wait 10 years to fight old men. Sorry about that.
Let's not keep this Calzaghe specific then. What about your superhero Hatton? His best wins are against old men! Old men that were well past it too

[SleazeNation]

:smoke
Let's not keep this Calzaghe specific then. What about your superhero Hatton? His best wins are against old men! Old men that were well past it too
No, Tszyu wasn't past his best. He was unbeaten in 8 years, undisputed champion and p4p top 3. He was only "well past it" after Hatton beat him.

And then Hatton fought the p4p #1 in America at welterweight. That's all I'm asking for. I'm not asking British fighters to be better than they are, I just want them to take on the biggest challenges they can, Hatton did it.

If Calzaghe had fought Roy 8 years ago, win or lose, I wouldv'e respect him for ever. Because I can't ask anymore than give your best. Calzaghe didn't.

[Fat Joe]

Let's not keep this Calzaghe specific then. What about your superhero Hatton? His best wins are against old men! Old men that were well past it too

I was gonna do a similar poll about Hatton in retaliation, but I can't be arsed.

[Dscaper]

No, Tszyu wasn't past his best. He was unbeaten in 8 years, undisputed champion and p4p top 3. He was only "well past it" after Hatton beat him.

And then Hatton fought the p4p #1 in America at welterweight. That's all I'm asking for. I'm not asking British fighters to be better than they are, I just want them to take on the biggest challenges they can, Hatton did it.

If Calzaghe had fought Roy 8 years ago, win or lose, I wouldv'e respect him for ever. Because I can't ask anymore than give your best. Calzaghe didn't.

Am I wrong in thinking that Hopkins ducked Calzaghe back in 2003 - when Hopkins verbally agreed to terms, then claimed he wanted more money?

Could someone correct me on this?

[SleazeNation]

Am I wrong in thinking that Hopkins ducked Calzaghe back in 2003 - when Hopkins verbally agreed to terms, then claimed he wanted more money?

Could someone correct me on this?
There was a 3 fight deal on the table for Hopkins which totalled 3 million. Calzaghe was one of those fights. ****** announced that the deal was done (one of many fights he announced before they were actually made). Hopkins said the money didn't match what he wanted for 3 fights.

[TFFP]

No, Tszyu wasn't past his best. He was unbeaten in 8 years, undisputed champion and p4p top 3. He was only "well past it" after Hatton beat him.

And then Hatton fought the p4p #1 in America at welterweight. That's all I'm asking for. I'm not asking British fighters to be better than they are, I just want them to take on the biggest challenges they can, Hatton did it.

If Calzaghe had fought Roy 8 years ago, win or lose, I wouldv'e respect him for ever. Because I can't ask anymore than give your best. Calzaghe didn't.
You obviously havn't seen much have Kostya Tszyu then, one of the greats at 140. That was not even close to a prime Tszyu, and the fact he hasn't fought since suggests he knew he was past it in there

I see where you are coming from with Haye, but you must be joking if you think Hatton's route to glory should go down as some blueprint. Apart from the fact there is not a credible victory on his record apart from Tszyu just shows what a smoke and mirrors career the guy has had, which only dumbass football supporters fall for. If he had fought Witter when he was defending his shitty WBU belt the hype train would never have got started, and for that reason many of us in here do not take his bullshit seriously

Not fighting a guy 50 miles down the road and coming up with an array of pitiful excuses is embarrassing, I wouldn't wish that sort of management on any upcoming Brit

[SleazeNation]

You obviously havn't seen much have Kostya Tszyu then, one of the greats at 140. That was not even close to a prime Tszyu, and the fact he hasn't fought since suggests he knew he was past it in there

I see where you are coming from with Haye, but you must be joking if you think Hatton's route to glory should go down as some blueprint. Apart from the fact there is not a credible victory on his record apart from Tszyu just shows what a smoke and mirrors career the guy has had, which only dumbass football supporters fall for. If he had fought Witter when he was defending his shitty WBU belt the hype train would never have got started, and for that reason many of us in here do not take his bullshit seriously

Not fighting a guy 50 miles down the road and coming up with an array of pitiful excuses is embarrassing, I wouldn't wish that sort of management on any upcoming Brit
Oh, I've seen all of Tszyu's fights and when he knocked out Mitchell he was regarded as good as he'd ever been. Check the reviews post Mitchell and pre Hatton. He was anything but a "well past it" fighter.

And Hatton's "route to glory" was masterminded by one Frank ******. Already mentioned. The fact that Hatton 2005-onwards did what he went on to do is even more impressive considering he left ****** to not be the next Calzaghe. He got out before it was too late. Big respect.

[TFFP]

Oh, I've seen all of Tszyu's fights and when he knocked out Mitchell he was regarded as good as he'd ever been. Check the reviews post Mitchell and pre Hatton. He was anything but a "well past it" fighter.

And Hatton's "route to glory" was masterminded by one Frank ******. Already mentioned. The fact that Hatton 2005-onwards did what he went on to do is even more impressive considering he left ****** to not be the next Calzaghe. He got out before it was too late. Big respect.
He fought twice in two years, not good for an older fighter. Mitchell has a glass jaw, he was never really tested in that fight. I'd suggest watching him against Judah, Urkal and Mitchell I, the difference is noticeable

Hatton will never be the next Calzaghe. His resume is no way near as good.

[Fat Joe]

The fact that Hatton 2005-onwards did what he went on to do is even more impressive considering he left ****** to not be the next Calzaghe. He got out before it was too late. Big respect.

He hasn't done well since then.

[robpalmer135]

I DON'T like the way your mocking him in this thread. Lacy is his best win, not becasue of who lacy was but because of how he beat him

[Beatboxer]

Am I wrong in thinking that Hopkins ducked Calzaghe back in 2003 - when Hopkins verbally agreed to terms, then claimed he wanted more money?

Could someone correct me on this?

Right in essentials mate, this fight was all but signed but Hopkins backed out at the last minute requesting double the amount offered but it was in 2002.

Slezenation does his best to spin when this is brought up but its undeniable face, Hopkins avoided JC. *prepares for inevitable automated response that everyone will counter but he will persist with anyway* JC wasn't a big enough name but Carl Daniels was more signficant legacy wise :nut

[Fat Joe]

If Calzaghe had fought Roy 8 years ago, win or lose, I wouldv'e respect him for ever. Because I can't ask anymore than give your best. Calzaghe didn't.

You make it sound so straight forward. You know boxing is politics. Mayweather agreed to fight Hatton because he was confident of whipping him, maybe RJJ didn't fancy taking the risk of fighting Calzaghe.

[Beeston Brawler]

His resume isn't that much different to be honest - substitute a WBO belt for a WBU one and they are quite similar.

OK, many of Hatton's earlier 'challengers' weren't up to much, but could you really say that all Calzaghe's 20 odd were brilliant either.

At the end of the day, you could pick holes in either of their careers, but why bother - they are two top British fighters and we should be proud of what they have done. Why is it we hate winners, yet love fucking losers - in all sports, like Gazza etc - yet winners like Steve Davis and Nick Faldo (for instance) are less popular, as was Linford Christie.

[Beatboxer]

He fought twice in two years, not good for an older fighter. Mitchell has a glass jaw, he was never really tested in that fight. I'd suggest watching him against Judah, Urkal and Mitchell I, the difference is noticeable

Hatton will never be the next Calzaghe. His resume is no way near as good.

But, but he fought Mayweather he fought Mayweather hes better than Calzaghe on that basis alone of course.

Every shrewd boxing fan knows that given the fact that Hatton ducked Mayweather in 2005 at JNR Welter that there are two main reasons for Hatton taking the fight when he did:

1. He knew that a loss against Mayweather wouldn't hugely damage his marketability and credibility.

2. He could claim that whilst he loss at 147, it wasn't even his division and could cite the Collazo fight as proof that he wasn't at his most effective at this weight...a good excuse to dupe the fan boys for when he lost.

He realised this and took the plunge. Make no mistake Hatton is a money boy first and legacy a distant second. Hes a businessman and the reason he avoided Mayweather the first time round was that he knew there and then he could very well lose thus halting his momentum in 2005 and of course stripping him of his status as world champion which he obviously can still claim now even after his loss to Mayweather. Other big money pay days would not have materialized had he lost to Mayweather at that juncture, he at least would not have earned as much.

He doesn't fight Witter not because of some lame 'one day' comment that Junior made but more because he realises that should he lose this fight(a realistic possibility) then even his moronic fan base would be somewhat put off as he would have lost his 'best in Britain at 140' status and also of course any claim to being world champion. His legacy would be in tatters with people no doubt claiming rightly or wrongly that he was overprotected businessman who chose his fights on the basis of how much he could make first and legacy second.

The risk reward ratio isn't good in Hattons view. So instead he fights legends like Urango and Lazcano for the fans of course :yep

[Beatboxer]

You make it sound so straight forward. You know boxing is politics. Mayweather agreed to fight Hatton because he was confident of whipping him, maybe RJJ didn't fancy taking the risk of fighting Calzaghe.

I don't hold Jones to task for not fighting Calzaghe. JC at that time was all risk and very little reward for the p4p king. He should have been coming and going with the linear LHW champ DM.

[TFFP]

His resume isn't that much different to be honest - substitute a WBO belt for a WBU one and they are quite similar.

OK, many of Hatton's earlier 'challengers' weren't up to much, but could you really say that all Calzaghe's 20 odd were brilliant either.

At the end of the day, you could pick holes in either of their careers, but why bother - they are two top British fighters and we should be proud of what they have done. Why is it we hate winners, yet love fucking losers - in all sports, like Gazza etc - yet winners like Steve Davis and Nick Faldo (for instance) are less popular, as was Linford Christie.
I hate to do these resume comparisons, but they are NOT similar

Hopkins > Tszyu - Both past their best, Hatton needed the help of the ref and was also at home with a partizan crowd behind him. Calzaghe was up against a ref that allowed Hopkins shit, and the Las Vegas judges

Kessler > Collazo? - I don't even know Hatton's second best win they are so poor. Anyway, this fight was extremely close, it was life and death for Hatton against a fringe welterweight. Calzaghe wins competetive and clear to unify division against undefeated fighter

Eubank > Castillo - Castillo the former lightweight is shot to bits. I'm not sure he could have been any more shot. Green Calzaghe wins against past his best, but still competetive (as Carl Thompson will testify) Eubank

I don't even have anybody to compare Reid, Mitchell and Lacy to. Perhaps when he decides to actually prove he is the best 140lb fighter rather than just saying it eh?

[SleazeNation]

I hate to do these resume comparisons, but they are NOT similar

Hopkins > Tszyu - Both past their best, Hatton needed the help of the ref and was also at home with a partizan crowd behind him. Calzaghe was up against a ref that allowed Hopkins shit, and the Las Vegas judges

Kessler > Collazo? - I don't even know Hatton's second best win they are so poor. Anyway, this fight was extremely close, it was life and death for Hatton against a fringe welterweight. Calzaghe wins competetive and clear to unify division against undefeated fighter

Eubank > Castillo - Castillo the former lightweight is shot to bits. I'm not sure he could have been any more shot. Green Calzaghe wins against past his best, but still competetive (as Carl Thompson will testify) Eubank

I don't even have anybody to compare Reid, Mitchell and Lacy to. Perhaps when he decides to actually prove he is the best 140lb fighter rather than just saying it eh?
Mayweather and Tszyu are better than anyone on Calzaghe's record.

[Beatboxer]

Mayweather and Tszyu are better than anyone on Calzaghe's record.

He didn't beat Mayweather you moron. If you only had to fight fighters to get regarded then Chuvalo would be the best heavyweight of all time.

[Beatboxer]

Mayweather and Tszyu are better than anyone on Calzaghe's record.

Please explain how Kostya 'Vince Phillips whooped my ass' Tszyu is better than Bernard Hopkins.

[elle]

At the end of the day, you could pick holes in either of their careers, but why bother - they are two top British fighters and we should be proud of what they have done.


To be honest if you look hard enough you could pick holes in most boxers careers - if you are that way inclined.

I don't understand the need to constantly hit the rewind button to discredit certain boxers and revisit the same debate over and over again.

There just seems to be an awful lot of negativity on the forum at the moment which is odd considering a british boxer just emerged the victor over in the States.

[SleazeNation]

Please explain how Kostya 'Vince Phillips whooped my ass' Tszyu is better than Bernard Hopkins.
He was unbeaten in 8 years. Undisputed champion, p4p top 3, and fighting at the weight that he ruled.

He was a lot better than Bernard "I lost a 4 rounder to Clinton Mitchell - I must be shit then according to BeatBoxer" Hopkins.

[TFFP]

Mayweather and Tszyu are better than anyone on Calzaghe's record.
Not better than either Hopkins, Kessler or Eubank when you take into account the circumstances. It might be as simple as "W" or "L" for you, but some of us hardcore fans take a more detailed interest

Hatton got away with a blatant low blow, and was allowed to hold and rabbit punch all night by Parris. I don't know if you've ever boxed, but believe me that shit takes it out of you. It was not a fair contest by any stretch of the imagination, yet Tszyu still kept it very close

Joe won his big fights clearly, and without the aid of crooked refs

[Fat Joe]

Not better than either Hopkins, Kessler

You can't put Kessler on a par with KT, not yet anyway.

[Beatboxer]

He was unbeaten in 8 years. Undisputed champion, p4p top 3, and fighting at the weight that he ruled.

He was a lot better than Bernard "I lost a 4 rounder to Clinton Mitchell - I must be shit then according to BeatBoxer" Hopkins.

Nah actually I was fighting on your level - I regard Kostya Tyszu highly and give Hatton great credit for the win.

The Phillips fight showed however, that Kostya did have problems with pressure fighters, fights fought an intense pace. Kudos to Hatton for exploiting this.

However, Hopkins reigned for 10 long years as the man at 160. He lost two controversial fights then moved on up and beat the man widely regarded as the best at 175.

He achieved far more than Kostya ever did. I rarely if ever factor Zoo's inactivity when attacking Hatton - whilst some might cite it as being a factor no matter what anybody says, we were all mighty impressed with how emphatically Kostya whacked Mitchell and pretty much everyone on here expected a slaughter of Hatton. Ricky did well to come through that and it was a great win, his only great win in my mind.

Now as for Hopkins, he was still the man at 175. He was just one fight removed from one his biggest victories over Tarver. Undefeated against southpaws, an ATG to start with, pretty much consensus top 5 p4p. Also the fight was in the states, with a pretty poor ref to boot. JC won despite having the cards stacked against him which cannot be said of Hatton against Zoo.

I regard them both as being huge wins. But to state decisively that Kostya Tsyzu is a bigger win than beating Hopkins is not something I or many others will agree with.

[SleazeNation]

Not better than either Hopkins, Kessler or Eubank when you take into account the circumstances. It might be as simple as "W" or "L" for you, but some of us hardcore fans take a more detailed interest

Hatton got away with a blatant low blow, and was allowed to hold and rabbit punch all night by Parris. I don't know if you've ever boxed, but believe me that shit takes it out of you. It was not a fair contest by any stretch of the imagination, yet Tszyu still kept it very close

Joe won his big fights clearly, and without the aid of crooked refs
Clutching at straws by any chance? Hatton landing a low blow after numerous ones from Tszyu makes the win less impressive than Calzaghe's SD against a 43 year old man.
That is beyond pathetic.
I'm not going to discuss individual aspects of a fight, Hopkins dropped Calzaghe, he must be shit. He must have a glass chin. Grow up.

I respect Hatton for fighting the #1 p4p fighter in the sport a divison up, when Calzaghe didn't even try to get Roy Jones when he was in the same position. That's my opinion.

[TFFP]

You can't put Kessler on a par with KT, not yet anyway.
I do. When I judge fights its more than about how big the names are. You have to take into account the condition of the opponent, and also the circumstances in which the fight was won

Tszyu was 35 or something, and had fought twice in 2 years. Hatton was allowed to foul, and get away with a blatant horrible low blow which changed the fight

Is Kessler a better fighter than Tszyu? Of course not. But it was a beter win

[TFFP]

Clutching at straws by any chance? Hatton landing a low blow after numerous ones from Tszyu makes the win less impressive than Calzaghe's SD against a 43 year old man.
That is beyond pathetic.
I'm not going to discuss individual aspects of a fight, Hopkins dropped Calzaghe, he must be shit. He must have a glass chin. Grow up.

I respect Hatton for fighting the #1 p4p fighter in the sport a divison up, when Calzaghe didn't even try to get Roy Jones when he was in the same position. That's my opinion.
The flaw in your logic is it was never a true split decision, and you just proved my point that the deck was even further stacked against Joe with the Vegas judging, thanks :yep

As far as I can remember, Joe didn't initiate any fouls against Hopkins, quite the reverse infact. Hatton fouled from round 1, culminating in a shocking low blow which Dave Parris just happened to "miss"

[Fat Joe]

Is Kessler a better fighter than Tszyu? Of course not. But it was a beter win

I'd say equal.

[Beeston Brawler]

Kessler isn't the equal of Tszyu yet - not saying he will never be though.

It's strange, some people have this as a brilliant win for Joe, whislt his haters have Kessler as a typical padded EU fighter (ala Dennis Holbaek Pedersen) - whilst I sit on the fence to a degree.

It was a very good win - not many Yanks will have watched this one and realised that at the half way mark Joe was at best, level on points, and switched tactics very well to secure the win.

[TFFP]

Kessler isn't the equal of Tszyu yet - not saying he will never be though.

It's strange, some people have this as a brilliant win for Joe, whislt his haters have Kessler as a typical padded EU fighter (ala Dennis Holbaek Pedersen) - whilst I sit on the fence to a degree.

It was a very good win - not many Yanks will have watched this one and realised that at the half way mark Joe was at best, level on points, and switched tactics very well to secure the win.
The beauty of it is one group will be proved right, and it will be us :yep

How can Kessler be a padded EU fighter when he has fought a bunch of B level fighters and barely dropped a round? Not only that, but he beat guys of any style, and showed he can adapt to them. He beat Mundine clearly, a very quick and athletically gifted boxer. He beat Andrade, the typical pressure fighter with no problems. Knocked out Beyer inside a few rounds, the manner of that victory is impressive. That is A class potential, he now needs to prove it, and he will

I bet the house Kessler is a top 10 p4p fighter on any reasonable persons list within the next couple of years :yep

[Beatboxer]

The beauty of it is one group will be proved right, and it will be us :yep

How can Kessler be a padded EU fighter when he has fought a bunch of B level fighters and barely dropped a round? Not only that, but he beat guys of any style, and showed he can adapt to them. He beat Mundine clearly, a very quick and athletically gifted boxer. He beat Andrade, the typical pressure fighter with no problems. Knocked out Beyer inside a few rounds, the manner of that victory is impressive. That is A class potential, he now needs to prove it, and he will

I bet the house Kessler is a top 10 p4p fighter on any reasonable persons list within the next couple of years :yep

Kessler on what he has achieved thus far, is a good win. How the author of this thread can call a unified world champion unproven is beyond me.

[brown bomber]

The flaw in your logic is it was never a true split decision, and you just proved my point that the deck was even further stacked against Joe with the Vegas judging, thanks :yep

:patsch Your still going on about it?:verysad

[TFFP]

:patsch Your still going on about it?:verysad
Yes, still stalking me? :D

We were actually discussing the merits of various victories rather than that in itself, but don't you miss that chance for a dig eh?

Now fuck off.

[brown bomber]

:lol: Yes, still stalking me? :D

We were actually discussing the merits of various victories rather than that in itself, but don't you miss that chance for a dig eh?

Now fuck off.The flaw in your logic is it was never a true split decision :lol: - Great line.

[brown bomber]

:lol: The flaw in your logic is it was never a true split decision :lol: - Great line. Is it by sheer coincidence that you never, ever have an opinion of your own you just seem to mould into what ever seems to be the consensus thoery without submitting anything to validate your ideas?

[Cobbler]

The forum's been a little short of sanity in the last couple of days and now Jeff Thomas is arguing with himself! :p

[TFFP]

The forum's been a little short of sanity in the last couple of days and now Jeff Thomas is arguing with himself! :p
:lol:

At least he'll win this time ;)

[brown bomber]

The forum's been a little short of sanity in the last couple of days and now Jeff Thomas is arguing with himself! :p:lol: :lol: Had to chuckle at that one. :good

[brown bomber]

:lol:

At least he'll win this time ;) :D screw you.

[Max Molyneux]

Lacy deffo, he was a bit green and over hyped no doubt but It was the manner In which Joe dominated him. Even most one sided fights were never like that.

[coog]

He really dominated Lacy. I think the Kessler fight he really outboxed a good boxer I think that Kessler should have pulled More Hopkins and turned it into a brawl. with his speed and strength it would have worked better for him, I think.

[columbo man]

So, after his first win in America and his biggest name opponent...

Which victory is Calzaghe's most impressive as we look back over the "career" so far?


eubank and kessler!!!!