Tommy Hearns was not dehydrated or weight drained vs SRL

[SuzieQ49]

Exclusive RING interview with Hearns from Jan 1982.

R: You weighed 145 pounds for the fight, surprisingly light isn't it?

H: People think just because I'm tall and have a big upperbody that I should be heavier and that I have problems making 147 pounds. Let me set the record straight right now. I don't have any problems making 147 pounds. I think I proved that by coming in at 145.

R: Might you have overtrained or de-hydrated from making the weight?

H: I couldn't have been de-hydrated. I told you, I made the weight naturally. I didn't have to starve myself. I ate like I always eat before a fight. As for overtraining, that couldn't have been possible. When a fighter overtrains, he gets tired and is not strong during a bout. I never got tired and felt very strong. All I know is that I didn't sweat that much.

R: When referee Davy Pearl ended the fight, were you tired then?

H: Not at all. I was hurt, but not badly hurt.



Can we please now close the book on this one?




* Special Thanx to poster Robbi

[Robbi]

Exclusive RING interview with Hearns from Jan 1982.

R: You weighed 145 pounds for the fight, surprisingly light isn't it?

H: People think just because I'm tall and have a big upperbody that I should be heavier and that I have problems making 147 pounds. Let me set the record straight right now. I don't have any problems making 147 pounds. I think I proved that by coming in at 145.

R: Might you have overtrained or de-hydrated from making the weight?

H: I couldn't have been de-hydrated. I told you, I made the weight naturally. I didn't have to starve myself. I ate like I always eat before a fight. As for overtraining, that couldn't have been possible. When a fighter overtrains, he gets tired and is not strong during a bout. I never got tired and felt very strong. All I know is that I didn't sweat that much.

R: When referee Davy Pearl ended the fight, were you tired then?

H: Not at all. I was hurt, but not badly hurt.



Can we please now close the book on this one?




* Special Thanx to poster Robbi

The above came from the horses mouth. Can't argue with it coming from the horse.

The only reasons people come the conclusion Hearns was weight drained for the first Leonard fight.

*He had a very tall frame, 6' 1", and was freakishly thin.

*He ended up at higher weights, as high up as light-heavyweight and cruiserweight late in his career.

*The Leonard fight was his last fight at welterweight.

All those factors are why people say "Hearns was weighed drained and lacked stamina"

[PowerPuncher]

He may not have been drained BUT he was a little green. He had not fought into the late rounds before, Leonard had and was mroe experienced with a longer fight

Emmanual Steward fighters tend to blow their wad later into fights. Hearns, McCellan, Harris, Wlad, Lewis have all lost because of fading in big fights, it seems to be a symptom

[redrooster]

I remember this interview. You left out the part just before it stating how most experts from ringside that brought up the issue and how frail Tommy appeared. I think it's the key reason he lost the fight late. Gil Clancy also mentioned several times during the commentary which I have, that he thought Tommy would have won the fight easy if not for the weight he came in. I must say that I agree completely with what he said.

[redrooster]

This means that Tommy's conditioning was responsible for his losing the fight. If not for this, we would have had another boxing lesson on the order of Terry Norris-ray leonard

[Robbi]

I remember this interview. You left out the part just before it stating how most experts from ringside that brought up the issue and how frail Tommy appeared. I think it's the key reason he lost the fight late. Gil Clancy also mentioned several times during the commentary which I have, that he thought Tommy would have won the fight easy if not for the weight he came in. I must say that I agree completely with what he said.

Still in denial and hiding from the truth. As always.

[Russell]

How can anyone say he wouldn't of been more healthy and capable with a few extra pounds on him?

That's massive to conditioned athletes. A handful of pounds was a big deal for Hagler, as he stated multiple times, and he was a middleweight.

[redrooster]

Still in denial and hiding from the truth. As always.

I don't know why Thomas would deny it. It's quite obvious! Leonard was quite ineffective. It was Thomas' late round stamina and frailty that did him in, not Leonard's skill as a boxer. Or to put it another way, this fight was decied on strangth and stamina, which Thomas did not have. Those punches that leonard caught him with earlier did not do enough to down him and Tommy came back rounds 8-12 to totally mesmerize and confound leonard. In the late rounds, the blows that weakend him would not have been nearly as effective earlier so it was Tommy who was the better boxer.

Terry Norris could surely have beat leonard that night no problem. :yep

[Sweet Pea]

I don't know why Thomas would deny it. It's quite obvious! Leonard was quite ineffective. It was Thomas' late round stamina and frailty that did him in, not Leonard's skill as a boxer. Or to put it another way, this fight was decied on strangth and stamina, which Thomas did not have. Those punches that leonard caught him with earlier did not do enough to down him and Tommy came back rounds 8-12 to totally mesmerize and confound leonard. In the late rounds, the blows that weakend him would not have been nearly as effective earlier so it was Tommy who was the better boxer.

Terry Norris could surely have beat leonard that night no problem. :yepYou now see why everyone takes my side in our debates? You are completely delusional. Either that or just a very dedicated troll.

[Russell]

Why do conversations also turn so pissy and personal on here?

This isn't supposed to be general.

[Robbi]

It was Thomas' late round stamina and frailty that did him in, not Leonard's skill as a boxer. Or to put it another way, this fight was decied on strangth and stamina, which Thomas did not have.

You forgot to mention the fight was also decided on killer instinct. But how the hell could you say that, talking up Leonard's inner greatness to come from behind and force the stoppage. That just ain't going to happen with you.

[redrooster]

You now see why everyone takes my side in our debates? You are completely delusional. Either that or just a very dedicated troll.

How am I a troll? I always have more to say than you. My analysis is always more in depth.

You can try to smear me all you like but when has Ray ever proven himself against a capable boxer outside of Hearns and please don't bring up the meek benitez.

No question Ray lost most of the rounds once Tommy went up on his toes and floundered badly. Since he's not exactly Julian Jackson on the attack, an honest observer must admit that he cannot hit a moving target and Norris in some ways resembles prime Camacho in that he would score quickly and then get out of range.

And if you have seen prime leonard, you would know that he takes his time about trying to find openings. This would be disasterous against the likes of Norris. Terry with his hand speed would score on leonard before he could even get set and defense wise, rolls and slides with punches or deflects them expertly with his gloves the way Hagler used to.

And there's NO WAY that Terry is going to stand around getting hit by combinations! That is every leonard fan's argument-that the combinations would destroy Terry. Even if they got in exchanges, Terry has the hand speed to match leonard's. And we know he has the ability to hurt leonard so he sure as hell isn't going to take too many chances punching with him especially since Terry can score so quickly and move out of range.

Even with the big edge he had in professional experience, the big wins over Hearns, Duran, Benitez, Kalule, Hagler, leonard still didn't have enough experience to deal with the vast and boundless talents of Norris. Nowhere near enough.

[Robbi]

How am I a troll? I always have more to say than you. My analysis is always more in depth.

You can try to smear me all you like but when has Ray ever proven himself against a capable boxer outside of Hearns and please don't bring up the meek benitez.

No question Ray lost most of the rounds once Tommy went up on his toes and floundered badly. Since he's not exactly Julian Jackson on the attack, an honest observer must admit that he cannot hit a moving target and Norris in some ways resembles prime Camacho in that he would score quickly and then get out of range.

And if you have seen prime leonard, you would know that he takes his time about trying to find openings. This would be disasterous against the likes of Norris who rolls and slides with punches or deflects them expertly with his gloves the way Hagler used to.

And there's NO WAY that Terry is going to stand around getting hit by combinations! That is every leonard fan's argument-that the combinations would destroy Terry. Even if they got in exchanges, Terry has the hand speed to match leonard's. And we know he has the ability to hurt leonard so he sure as hell isn't going to take too many chances punching with him especially since Terry can score so quickly and move out of range.

Even with the big edge he had in professional experience, the big wins over Hearns, Duran, Benitez, Kalule, Hagler, leonard still didn't have enough experience to deal with the vast and boundless talents of Norris. Nowhere near enough.

I'm laughing. Thanks for the entertainment. :good

[redrooster]

Why do conversations also turn so pissy and personal on here?

This isn't supposed to be general.

it has todo with Sweat Pea who holds a grugde against any Terry Norris or Roy Jones fans.

[SuzieQ49]

How can anyone say he wouldn't of been more healthy and capable with a few extra pounds on him?

That's massive to conditioned athletes. A handful of pounds was a big deal for Hagler, as he stated multiple times, and he was a middleweight.


:patsch Tommy Hearns just said that he came in at peak shape well trained, well hydrated with plenty of food in his stomahc. are you saying you know tommy's body better than Tommy does?

[redrooster]

:patsch Tommy Hearns just said that he came in at peak shape well trained, well hydrated with plenty of food in his stomahc. are you saying you know tommy's body better than Tommy does?

I'm surprised he actually didnt cave in earlier. He sure didn't resemble a hit man coming into the fight. I think Tommy had the same problem as Owens in the Pintor fight.

[Sweet Pea]

it has todo with Sweat Pea who holds a grugde against any Terry Norris or Roy Jones fans.:lol: Jones is my 2nd favorite fighter of all time you clown.

I am now almost convinced you're a troll. It's subtle things like that which I always pick up from you, makes me seriously question your motives.

[Russell]

:patsch Tommy Hearns just said that he came in at peak shape well trained, well hydrated with plenty of food in his stomahc. are you saying you know tommy's body better than Tommy does?

How would two extra pounds of water weight hidnered him, Q?

He just fucking said he wasn't sweating during the fight.

Awfully selective with what parts of Hearn's statement you want to remember.

[Rebel-INS]

:patsch Tommy Hearns just said that he came in at peak shape well trained, well hydrated with plenty of food in his stomahc. are you saying you know tommy's body better than Tommy does?


At 6'1 and a welterweight, he needs to have as much weight on as possible so he's definitely going to be a lot better on fight night if he weighed in at 147.

I'm not saying it would've changed the outcome or anything, but he did look a little drained in that fight.

[SuzieQ49]

How would two extra pounds of water weight hidnered him, Q?

.

" I couldn't have been de-hydrated. I told you, I made the weight naturally. I didn't have to starve myself. I ate like I always eat before a fight."- Tommy Hearns

Clearly Tommy Hearns answered your own question. He came in naturally at 145lb, without suffering. he was not water restricted, and he was not food restricted.

Leonard beat a prime tommy hearns

[SuzieQ49]

Btw, I don't know if your an athlete but as a 1 on 1 competitior, Not sweating doesnt mean ur dehydrated. Sometimes it just means your in incredible shape. When I am in peak shape, it takes a lot to make me sweat. I mean Alot.

[Russell]

" I couldn't have been de-hydrated. I told you, I made the weight naturally. I didn't have to starve myself. I ate like I always eat before a fight."- Tommy Hearns

Clearly Tommy Hearns answered your own question. He came in naturally at 145lb, without suffering. he was not water restricted, and he was not food restricted.

Leonard beat a prime tommy hearns

Ray Arcel, one of the most knowledable men in the history of the game, laid this out before the fight even started.

You're obviously missing the point. He may not of been drained, food or water wise, but 2 pounds to a world class athlete is substantial.

[Russell]

Btw, I don't know if your an athlete but as a 1 on 1 competitior, Not sweating doesnt mean ur dehydrated. Sometimes it just means your in incredible shape. When I am in peak shape, it takes a lot to make me sweat. I mean Alot.

Yeah, I know Q. Your body becomes more efficent as it adapts to your routines.

[SuzieQ49]

Ray Arcel, one of the most knowledable men in the history of the game, laid this out before the fight even started.

You're obviously missing the point. He may not of been drained, food or water wise, but 2 pounds to a world class athlete is substantial.


Yes it is, but according to hearns.....the 2 extra pounds didnt matter to him because he naturally came in at 145 due to good training. I rate tommy hearns as my # 4welterweight of all time, so SRL's win over him means alot to me.

[Rebel-INS]

Yes it is, but according to hearns.....the 2 extra pounds didnt matter to him because he naturally came in at 145 due to good training. I rate tommy hearns as my # 4welterweight of all time, so SRL's win over him means alot to me.

Who else is in your top ten?

[elTerrible]

The rumor that I heard was that he was overtrained and I think there was something about him even running 5 miles or whatever the night before the fight.

I dont know if that is true or not but that is what I read before.

[SuzieQ49]

Who else is in your top ten?

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Jose Napoles
4. Tommy Hearns
5. Emile Griffith
6. Barbados Joe Walcott
7. Kid Gavilan
8. Henry Armstrong
9. Luis Rodriguez
10. Oscar De Le Hoya

[redrooster]

:lol: Jones is my 2nd favorite fighter of all time you clown.

I am now almost convinced you're a troll. It's subtle things like that which I always pick up from you, makes me seriously question your motives.

You know full well that you can't dispute what I said about the Norris-Leonard matchup otherwise you would have already responded. You didn't make one remark about it. Instead you concentrate on some other topic so you can call me a troll and try to discredit me.

YOU discredit ME?? Someone who wasn't even around in this particular era and forgot more about the sport that you will ever know?

PROVE that I am a troll by asnwering the question: How would Ray get Terry to stay put and then drop his hands so he could unload on him? This is not some made to order stepping stone cakewalk we're talking about: Dave Green, Chiaverini, Randy Shields, Ayub Kalule, Don Lalonde, Kevin Howard.

Those guys were brought in to lose and they knew it. Norris actually has athletic ability denied those frail, weak punching, slow polks not to mention the will to win. This can be noted from their bout in which Norris tested Ray early and sent him this message with a body shot that drove him into the ropes: You're not fighting an old man anymore. You're not fighting Lalonde, Dave Green, Marcos Geraldo. I'm going to hit you and I'm going to try to hurt you.

Leonard found out early on he was going to have to pay the price to get in on Norris with his flesh.

You see, none of those guys had the right stuff. Terry Norris, and Roy Jones-they got the right stuff. hagler had the right stuff for years and years but not at the end of his career.

[My dinner with Conteh]

How can anyone say he wouldn't of been more healthy and capable with a few extra pounds on him?

That's massive to conditioned athletes. A handful of pounds was a big deal for Hagler, as he stated multiple times, and he was a middleweight.


It's funny how his stamina went at exactly the moment that Leonard produced his late-rally.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Ray Arcel, one of the most knowledable men in the history of the game, laid this out before the fight even started.

You're obviously missing the point. He may not of been drained, food or water wise, but 2 pounds to a world class athlete is substantial.


2 pounds? He weighed 146 for most of his welter title fights, so one pound would be correct. He also weighed 145 in a big fight prior to the leonard contest.

[Russell]

It's funny how his stamina went at exactly the moment that Leonard produced his late-rally.

And hilarious how his stamina bled away as the fight goes on.

Extra weight wouldn't of done anything but help.

[My dinner with Conteh]

And hilarious how his stamina bled away as the fight goes on.

Extra weight wouldn't of done anything but help.



I think the stoppage may have been due to him not answering a succession of blows dickhead.

[godking]

The above came from the horses mouth. Can't argue with it coming from the horse.

The only reasons people come the conclusion Hearns was weight drained for the first Leonard fight.

*He had a very tall frame, 6' 1", and was freakishly thin.

*He ended up at higher weights, as high up as light-heavyweight and cruiserweight late in his career.

*The Leonard fight was his last fight at welterweight.

All those factors are why people say "Hearns was weighed drained and lacked stamina"But you know that someone will argue otherwise anyway ;)

[My dinner with Conteh]

Then again, Hagler's stoppage of Colbert was probably due to those extra pounds Mighty Mike lost in training. Marv didn't land a glove on 'slick' until his stamina went in the 12th and he could move no more. :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

But you know that someone will argue otherwise anyway ;)


Hearns is obviously lying, Russell knows best. He was there at ringside and Tommy's been paid off by Leonard's henchmen. That's not really Tommy speaking, when his mouth moves someone's dubbed over it. What he's really saying is that he lost those two pounds chasing after Leonard's brother Roger, who stole his pack of twinkies an hour before the weigh-in.

[SuzieQ49]

Hearns is obviously lying, Russell knows best. He was there at ringside and Tommy's been paid off by Leonard's henchmen. That's not really Tommy speaking, when his mouth moves someone's dubbed over it. What he's really saying is that he lost those two pounds chasing after Leonard's brother Roger, who stole his pack of twinkies an hour before the weigh-in.
__________________



OMFG!!!!!!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: LOL

[Rebel-INS]

I think the stoppage may have been due to him not answering a succession of blows dickhead.

Re-watch the fight, tommy may have been in trouble, but he was defending himself and was throwing back as the ref dived in. In my eyes it was slightly premature, but I don't think he would've made it to the bell.

[godking]

Hearns is obviously lying, Russell knows best. He was there at ringside and Tommy's been paid off by Leonard's henchmen. That's not really Tommy speaking, when his mouth moves someone's dubbed over it. What he's really saying is that he lost those two pounds chasing after Leonard's brother Roger, who stole his pack of twinkies an hour before the weigh-in.:lol: :lol:

[My dinner with Conteh]

Re-watch the fight, tommy may have been in trouble, but he was defending himself and was throwing back as the ref dived in. In my eyes it was slightly premature, but I don't think he would've made it to the bell.


This is fair. But it wasn't a bad stoppage. I personally would have let it gone on a few more seconds but then again I think most 'controversial' stoppages were too early.

[McGrain]

I don't think he was dehydrated but I think it's self evident that the training camp would have been geared more compeletely towards making the weight as opposed to preparing the fighter for the fight. They are not one and the same and it does represent a disadvantage.

Of course there are also serious advantages to boiling down. Leonard beat a guy who's dimensions are more those of a MW, a big one. That should be taken into account too.

Another good example is Hollyfield and his spell at 175. He could bully the guys he was in with but he couldn't train properly because he was so geared to weight making.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I don't think he was dehydrated but I think it's self evident that the training camp would have been geared more compeletely towards making the weight as opposed to preparing the fighter for the fight. They are not one and the same and it does represent a disadvantage.


Good, logical post. Randy Shields wrote a pre-fight article for KO about this fight, having taken on both (and given them trouble). He felt Tommy would outbox Ray, something most disagreed on before the fight, and that Leonard would produce a late rally to stop Hearns as his stamina was in question (it never would be his strong point of course) and that the final quarter of the fight would be all Leonard. He was spot on.

[McGrain]

Good, logical post. Randy Shields wrote a pre-fight article for KO about this fight, having taken on both (and given them trouble). He felt Tommy would outbox Ray, something most disagreed on before the fight, and that Leonard would produce a late rally to stop Hearns as his stamina was in question (it never would be his strong point of course) and that the final quarter of the fight would be all Leonard. He was spot on.

Nice prediction. I would be unbeareable if I had made that prediction.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Nice prediction. I would be unbeareable if I had made that prediction.


It's a great piece. He really knows his stuff and sees weaknesses in both. I'll have to read it again but I recall he felt Leonard 'cocked' his punches way too much.

[enquirer]

Also folks,in no other fight in hearns long career did he have any history of making weight incorrectly.
Tommys stamina was pretty impressive in this fight,outpunching ray for the first five,getting a pasting in the 6th,then boxing and moving against ray from the seventh to the 12 then coping with barrages in the 13th and 14th....Can anyone show a fight of tommy when 'fully' hydrated when he showed more stamina,variety and skill than this?

[Sonny's jab]

Hearns just wasn't strong or durable enough to last the 15 with Leonard once Leonard elected to brawl him.

He wasn't strong or durable enough to last 3 with Hagler.

Saying 2 extra pounds of weight would have allowed him to win against Leonard is incredible speculation.

It's a far lesser speculation to suggest that Leonard could have carried on his onslaught for the 5 or so minutes left in the fight HAD Hearns been stronger or more durable.

Hearns says he was comfortable at 145, and makes no suggestion that 147 would have been better. He clearly implies that he doesn't think so.

[Russell]

I think the stoppage may have been due to him not answering a succession of blows dickhead.

You're such a queen.

You get your panties stuffed up your cunt anytime someone questions you but yours are supposed to fly and be taken at face value.

[Robbi]

You're such a queen.

You get your panties stuffed up your cunt anytime someone questions you but yours are supposed to fly and be taken at face value.

:lol:

[redrooster]

Also folks,in no other fight in hearns long career did he have any history of making weight incorrectly.
Tommys stamina was pretty impressive in this fight,outpunching ray for the first five,getting a pasting in the 6th,then boxing and moving against ray from the seventh to the 12 then coping with barrages in the 13th and 14th....Can anyone show a fight of tommy when 'fully' hydrated when he showed more stamina,variety and skill than this?


Actually, he was just getting on his bicycle and we're not talking about that versatile a display. It was just a simple stick and move strategy.

Tommy showed better stamina and looked stronger in the Minchillo fight. There you could say that was a strong performance. It's evident that Tommy did not hit his peak until '84.

The only other fight I remember him in where he appeared drained was the Medal fight. Again, it was his last fight in the division as in the leonard fight.

[Ezzard]

I read Steward saying that Hearns overtrained. He claimed that he couldn't make Hearns take a rest. The body shots that leonard landed in the 6th (I think it was) won him that fight.

I think the reason people go on and on about it is because Leonard won with a great performance but the difference between the two is slight. Both great fighters.

Main difference look at leonard in round 2 in Duran I. He's all but out but he knows how to survive. He puts a lock on Duran and stops him from working him over. When Hearns gets hurt he just puts his hands up.

[Russell]

I read Steward saying that Hearns overtrained. He claimed that he couldn't make Hearns take a rest. The body shots that leonard landed in the 6th (I think it was) won him that fight.

I think the reason people go on and on about it is because Leonard won with a great performance but the difference between the two is slight. Both great fighters.

Main difference look at leonard in round 2 in Duran I. He's all but out but he knows how to survive. He puts a lock on Duran and stops him from working him over. When Hearns gets hurt he just puts his hands up.

Arcel AND Manny said it, two of the most knowledgable players ever in the game.

I think they know what they're talking about.

[Pat_Lowe]

Arcel AND Manny said it, two of the most knowledgable players ever in the game.

I think they know what they're talking about.

Tommy Hearns said it! Who gives a shit what others say. I'm pretty sure the man knows himself better then those two.

[Russell]

Tommy Hearn's is the most humble guy in the history of the game. He refused to take breathing medication because he felt it would give him an unfair advantage, for christs sake.

He's a throwback to a more courteous era.

Joe Louis said he could never beat Marciano.

Burely said he could never beat Robinson.

Is either 100% fact?

[Pat_Lowe]

I'd believe Tommy Hearns about himself more than the other 2. And as gracious and humble as Hearns is, from what I've seen he isn't a huge fan of Leonard.

[My dinner with Conteh]

It seems that some posters can kid people for so long but eventually the chaff will be separated from the wheat. ;)

[My dinner with Conteh]

I'd believe Tommy Hearns about himself more than the other 2. And as gracious and humble as Hearns is, from what I've seen he isn't a huge fan of Leonard.


Yes, remember the rematch was going to be on (according to leonard) if Hearns just said he lost fair and square or something similar.

[Bokaj]

You must be fucking kidding me!!! Why is this thread still going on, it started by ending the discsussion. If Hearn's said he was in great shape and at his natural weight, then that's it. Fuck, this is stupid. Both were in great shape, but Leonard was slightly better on the night. Case closed.

All this bullshit about finding the hidden angles, jesus. It's irritating enough that so many have a hard time taking results on their face value, but when the guy himself goes on record and dispels all doubts about his shape then it's fucking insane that people won't accept it.

[My dinner with Conteh]

You must be fucking kidding me!!! Why is this thread still going on, it started by ending the discsussion. If Hearn's said he was in great shape and at his natural weight, then that's it. Fuck, this is stupid. Both were in great shape, but Leonard was slightly better on the night. Case closed.

All this bullshit about finding the hidden angles, jesus. It's irritating enough that so many have a hard time taking results on their face value, but when the guy himself goes on record and dispels all doubts about his shape then it's fucking insane that people won't accept it.


amen :happy

[Robbi]

You must be fucking kidding me!!! Why is this thread still going on, it started by ending the discsussion. If Hearn's said he was in great shape and at his natural weight, then that's it. Fuck, this is stupid. Both were in great shape, but Leonard was slightly better on the night. Case closed.

All this bullshit about finding the hidden angles, jesus. It's irritating enough that so many have a hard time taking results on their face value, but when the guy himself goes on record and dispels all doubts about his shape then it's fucking insane that people won't accept it.

It's just that some people hate facing the facts, especially when it's came from the horses mouth. People have had this the weight issues and stamina problems soaked into their brains for years. And when they see this they would prefer to continue to believe what they have believed in the past.

[Scorpion]

How am I a troll? I always have more to say than you. My analysis is always more in depth.

You can try to smear me all you like but when has Ray ever proven himself against a capable boxer outside of Hearns and please don't bring up the meek benitez.

No question Ray lost most of the rounds once Tommy went up on his toes and floundered badly. Since he's not exactly Julian Jackson on the attack, an honest observer must admit that he cannot hit a moving target and Norris in some ways resembles prime Camacho in that he would score quickly and then get out of range.

And if you have seen prime leonard, you would know that he takes his time about trying to find openings. This would be disasterous against the likes of Norris. Terry with his hand speed would score on leonard before he could even get set and defense wise, rolls and slides with punches or deflects them expertly with his gloves the way Hagler used to.

And there's NO WAY that Terry is going to stand around getting hit by combinations! That is every leonard fan's argument-that the combinations would destroy Terry. Even if they got in exchanges, Terry has the hand speed to match leonard's. And we know he has the ability to hurt leonard so he sure as hell isn't going to take too many chances punching with him especially since Terry can score so quickly and move out of range.

Even with the big edge he had in professional experience, the big wins over Hearns, Duran, Benitez, Kalule, Hagler, leonard still didn't have enough experience to deal with the vast and boundless talents of Norris. Nowhere near enough.

Bro in boxing ANYTHING happens (Tyson- Douglas).

[SchweitzerMan]

Yeah, this should end the debate. Hearns is my favourite fighter of all time but on that night Ray Leonard was just a little bit better. Tommy wasn't weight drained or dehydrated and had he been facing anyone else, even Duran, I think he would have won