Arise Sir Joe! Calzaghe vs Hopkins the Final Word.

[Beatboxer]

Well, its over. After all the debate and arguments, the fight is over and the man who had his hand raised in victory was of course Joe Calzaghe.

Here are my thoughts on the fight and the implications of Calzaghes victory.

THE FIGHT ITSELF

I think this went the way everyone pretty much thought it would in regards to the way Hopkins in particular fought and the manner in which Calzaghe won, that is one guy was looking to fight off the backfoot trying to lure in his sometimes wild opponent then catch him with tasty right hands and then of course, rough him up on this inside.

Most of course thought that it was highly likely that Calzaghe would simply outwork and overwhelm Hopkins. This was particularly true down the stretch and its my opinion that the pace did start to get to Hopkins big time...and this as it transpired was decisive.

I had a bad feeling this would be a shit fight but rather than call it entertaining Ill call it enthralling, gripping and in places nailbiting...pleasantly surprised and Im not dreading watching it again when I go to verify my scorecard.

I shall now deal with the naysayers. There are three types of these in my mind: The Haters, The Revisionists and of course the Spinsters. Let me deal with each of these in turn.

THE HATERS

You guys will now in the grand scheme of things be silenced. All the ammo you once had to fire at Calzaghe has all but ran out given that he cleared out SMW(when you all accused him of running away in 2004) and has now beat the man to become number 1 at LHW. The wider boxing community will not accept any of your bullshit anymore and in time, most will come to appreciate Calzaghes greatness. Your day is done im afraid idiots and im delighted to see that the idiot Hopkins humper newbies are already on their bike as often happens in big fights.

THE REVISIONISTS

Oh you know the guys that said Hopkins would win at a canter but then in hindsight decry the verdict then after that assert that the win didn't mean much because Hopkins was old or in an even more extreme line of argument assert that Hopkins always lost to the best fighters he ever faced and only beat a faded Tarver fresh off the Rocky Balboa set and a 154lber.

To you guys, give some fucking credit and show some humility. You may actually have some points, but concede that Joe is simply an awesome fighter and that Hopkins did put in a great performance but just feel short. Eat humble pie, hell knows Ive done it for instance Miguel Cotto has proved me very much wrong to the extent that I simplu need to accept that most of the criticisms ive made of him have been disproven. You guys can make your points, but do it within the context of giving Joe and for that matter Bernard due credit.

THE SPINSTERS

The worst of all. The idiots that will twist every bit of a guys resume to suit your agenda. Well I shall answer this one head on in regards to Hopkins. I actually agree before you idiots even state it that Hopkins in his physical prime may well have defeated Calzaghe.....

BUT! Thats irrelevant when considering the merits of each guys career. Why? Because as we all know this could have happened in 2002 when Hopkins was far fresher but understandably he played the businessman and stuck around at 160 waiting for DLH. Deal with it spinsters, B-Hop made the choice to go after money first before legacy back then. To his credit, post DLH everything has been about legacy but he always knew that time would wait for no one and its not Joe's fault that he chose to fight him now and not in 2002. Calzaghe > Hopkins whether you like it or not. Its not hypothetical, its fact and what fighters actually achieve is what I judge them on not what they might have or could have done.

TO BE CONTINUED

[Beatboxer]

Also, the snobby fans that populate the main forum have had a rude awakening this week. Ive insisted all along that until proven otherwise, Hopkins is the man at 175.

Of course, certain fans have tried to pre-empt events and get ready to be smug and backslap themselves with the assertion that Dawson not Hopkins was the man to beat at 175.

Exactly why might I ask? And I did ask and I questioned why Calzaghe fans would prefer this fight over Pavlik or Hopkins. I asked why when it was clear that JC would not get immediate credit based on the fact that Dawson had only ever beat Adamek at that point and on the basis of his opposition, remained largely unproven. What the fuck would Calzaghe get out of that? More idiots slating him for fighting an 'unproven prospect' ala Kessler.

Others would also no doubt state even if Dawson went on to achieve alot that he was green and Calzaghe got him early like some sometimes attack RJJ over his win over Hopkins in 92. What the fuck is the point when you consider the risk-reward ratio? And btw I do rate Dawson but as a fan of JC its not the fight I want to see and ive just explained why. Hopkins was the right bout to take, and thats been proven I believe by Tarvers re-emergence, Dawsons mediocre performance and Hopkins good performance versus JC.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN LEGACY WISE?

Legacy wise, it adds substantially to JC's resume. Why? Because he has beaten an ATG MW and the reigning LHW Champ at the same time landing more on him than anyone else in history. No matter which way you cut it or spin it thats big. Give the guy his due, im certain that writers and analysts in the future will.

As for Hopkins, he loses a little and in my book JC goes above him in terms of resume now. I don't think he loses much, given his opponent and the nature of his loss but Hopkins naysayers will point out that he has lost to the two best fighters he has ever faced (JC and RJJ) and arguably the third (Taylor) rightly or wrongly, people will count that against him and watch out Hopkins fans for the great revisionism that your righter will under go with every idiot scrunitinising every little detail of his competition.

WHERE DO BOTH GO FROM HERE?

Ill start with Hopkins. Retire, a very good performance against a younger ATG, slightly contentious to some. Go out the Hagler way and enjoy your retirement. True boxing fans will be talking of you for many eras to come for your fantastic achievements. Any win over a nobody would be anti-climatic and a loss to a young up and comer may hurt your legacy a little bit. Time to go old man.

For JC, one last fight one more. Pavlik. Why? He will get huge credit for this win as its against the reigning undisputed MW champ that the Americans I suspect will cling to as their last hope against Calzaghe. He will also have beaten by that stage pretty much everyone there is to beat either directly or indirectly through his slain foes from 160 to 175 aside from Dawson. And the fact remains haters, that there will always be someone left to fight. Marciano could have stayed on for Patterson, Lewis for a Klitschko rematch and people were critical because they didn't. However, in time people come to admire them for getting out at the top at the right time and criticise Ali, SRL etc etc for going on too long. Be one of the former Joe: take short term criticism for long term acclaim. You deserve it mate.

ARISE SIR JOE! JC FOR KNIGHTHOOD!

[Benjiabc]

brilliant post, your bang on the button with your thoughts and analysis enjoyed the read mate thanks:good

[brown bomber]

gr8 read..... I'm wondering which heading I fall under. I'll be pleased for Joe once my pride stops hurting. lol.

[Beatboxer]

gr8 read..... I'm wondering which heading I fall under. I'll be pleased for Joe once my pride stops hurting. lol.

:D

Jeff, I respect you as a poster and alot of what you said in regards to why you thought Hopkins would win, much of it transpired but it just wasn't enough. I know your a big fan of B-Hop and that in the cold light of day, once your pride starts hurting I know that guys like yourself and Dan B will give JC his due credit.

The only thing I will say to you is stop being so darned nice to that Hater, Revisionist, Spinster and all around moron in Sleaze Nation :twisted:

Ive given him too much air time myself. The guy contributes nothing of any worth to this forum in my humble opinion. Hes like an autmoated robot with his responses to other peoples posts.

[elle]

I'll be pleased for Joe once my pride stops hurting. lol.


Keep your chin up buttercup! ;)

[brown bomber]

:D

Jeff, I respect you as a poster and alot of what you said in regards to why you thought Hopkins would win, much of it transpired but it just wasn't enough. I know your a big fan of B-Hop and that in the cold light of day, once your pride starts hurting I know that guys like yourself and Dan B will give JC his due credit.

The only thing I will say to you is stop being so darned nice to that Hater, Revisionist, Spinster and all around moron in Sleaze Nation :twisted:

Ive given him too much air time myself. The guy contributes nothing of any worth to this forum in my humble opinion. Hes like an autmoated robot with his responses to other peoples posts. lol Poor Sleaze underneath it all he is probably ok but he certainly puts his opinion across in a questionable way. He isn't top of my cunt list anymore though. Look:-

Jeffs cunt list
1. TFFP
2. Siccence
3. Sleaze Nation

[Beatboxer]

lol Poor Sleaze underneath it all he is probably ok but he certainly puts his opinion across in a questionable way. He isn't top of my cunt list anymore though. Look:-

Jeffs cunt list
1. TFFP
2. Siccence
3. Sleaze Nation

TFFP! Whats he done? I saw his questionable, probably slightly bias scoring but he seemed quite restrained and reserved in spite of that. He been doing some Hopkins bashing?

[brown bomber]

TFFP! Whats he done? I saw his questionable, probably slightly bias scoring but he seemed quite restrained and reserved in spite of that. He been doing some Hopkins bashing? He called me a prick :patsch I was sad.

[Beatboxer]

He called me a prick :patsch I was sad.

Ahhh not good. Not down with firing personal insults generally(though some have got under my skin in recent weeks I do confess). I think both of you guys are good posters and I can get how emotions might spill over given TFFP's admiration for Joe and yours for Bernard.

Btw, I think Calzaghe won the fight and by a few rounds but I can understand someone scoring it for Hopkins narrowly depending on their criteria for scoring fights.

One aspect of Hopkins game I was disappointed in was his shameful play acting in the 10th. He exaggerated the first low blow and tried to invent a second, I wasn't impressed by that at all though I must admit I was amused when Joe took him back to jail so to speak :D

[Beatboxer]

brilliant post, your bang on the button with your thoughts and analysis enjoyed the read mate thanks:good

Just saw this post mate cheers :good

Already you will see the hating, spinning and revising im warning against on the main fourm though. The only good thing is some of the more idiotic newbie Hopkins humpers are fleeing in the same vain as the Kesslerites did in November.

[ghostlybadge]

very good post

[TFFP]

Good post. Especially regarding the haters, and the various different forms they take

[Beatboxer]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

The British board to me, is largely a refuge from these haters who populate the general forum en mass. Its up to us to safeguard against them by calling them on their bullshit.

If Hopkins had won last night, I would have gave him his due. Calzaghe wouldn't have became old over night, an overhyped Euro bum reetc etc: Hopkins would have simply achieved a huge victory first and foremost and those other points would have been considered only after acknowledging that.

Hopkins fans in my mind have to do the same for JC. And I know the true fans will do that once the pain subsides from their guy losing that fight.

[dan-b]

As usual a top quality post from Beatboxer. I do give Joe credit I just disagree with the result. I've given my scoring for the fight & I've been waiting for others to post their exact scores.

But anyway thats besides the point. I see now as quite a sad time. Soon Hopkins & Joe will both be gone from the sport & I really don't see anyone to replace them. Hopkins especially was a character that I make no secret about having a huge amount of empathy with but he should retire now. He certainly took no beating in there like some expected.

As for Joe, Pavlik makes sense for him but not for Kelly. Kelly hasn't even made a defence of his middleweight championship & I'd like to see him fight Abraham. They are two divisions apart. If they do fight I would see a win for Calzaghe.

I really hope the Jones bout doesn't happen but I have a feeling it will.

Anyway kudos to Joe but no knighthood before Lennox Lewis please.;)

[brown bomber]

As sad as you were at 5am this morning?:lol: No. :verysad

[Beatboxer]

As usual a top quality post from Beatboxer. I do give Joe credit I just disagree with the result. I've given my scoring for the fight & I've been waiting for others to post their exact scores.

But anyway thats besides the point. I see now as quite a sad time. Soon Hopkins & Joe will both be gone from the sport & I really don't see anyone to replace them. Hopkins especially was a character that I make no secret about having a huge amount of empathy with but he should retire now. He certainly took no beating in there like some expected.

As for Joe, Pavlik makes sense for him but not for Kelly. Kelly hasn't even made a defence of his middleweight championship & I'd like to see him fight Abraham. They are two divisions apart. If they do fight I would see a win for Calzaghe.

I really hope the Jones bout doesn't happen but I have a feeling it will.

Anyway kudos to Joe but no knighthood before Lennox Lewis please.;)

Yeah man, I watched the fight at a friends I believe he has a recording courtesty of Sky Plus ill need to have a good watch of it again and be wary of trying to give rounds to my man.

Whats annoying me is the combination of Calzaghe haters attacking him, revisionists going back on their pre-fight opinions and spinsters now having a going at Hopkins record and resume. Why can't these fuckers come and go a bit and try to learn something from others? Ludicrous.

I don't want the Jones fight either. Ill go along to it as I feel it will be Joes last fight, but I would much rather Pavlik for legacy reasons.

Lennox should have a knighthood of course! The fact that they were considering Beckham before him made me physically sick. It should happen asap. Top 10 ATG heavy in my book.

[TFFP]

Dawson does far more for his legacy than Pavlik in my opinion. He is a far more well rounded fighter, and stylistically he causes greater trouble for Joe. Firstly he is a fellow southpaw which means Joe has more trouble establishing the jab, and secondly he fights off the back foot meaning Joe has to go looking for him, which is not when he is at his best

Pavlik comes forward, gives no angles, is much slower and has a leakier defence. Honestly, I think he gets near Lacy'd

Dawson is a very close fight given Joe's deteriorating skills

[Beatboxer]

Dawson does far more for his legacy than Pavlik in my opinion. He is a far more well rounded fighter, and stylistically he causes greater trouble for Joe. Firstly he is a fellow southpaw which means Joe has more trouble establishing the jab, and secondly he fights off the back foot meaning Joe has to go looking for him, which is not when he is at his best

Pavlik comes forward, gives no angles, is much slower and has a leakier defence. Honestly, I think he gets near Lacy'd

Dawson is a very close fight given Joe's deteriorating skills

No man.

Whilst I agree Dawson is the better fighter ask yourself will Joe get the credit he deserves if he beats Dawson right now? A guy whose best wins are against Adamek and controversially over Johnson?

No. Look at Lacy, look at the revisionism. Such beasts cite the Sheika fight as evidence that Lacy was there to be had. How much you want to bet they say similar things about Dawson in regards to Johnson?

Pavlik on the other hand iced Taylor then beat him again. He also decimated Miranda whom many Americans seem to rate very highly. Rightly or wrongly, Joe would get more credit imo for winning this fight.

There are even certain posters who have shat on RJJ's win over Hopkins even in the context of what he has achieved: he was too green apparently.

I want JC to get universal credit. If he beats Pavlik, he has beaten either directly or indirectly every guy worth fighting from 160 to 175.

But I do know where you are coming from.

[dan-b]

No man.

Whilst I agree Dawson is the better fighter ask yourself will Joe get the credit he deserves if he beats Dawson right now? A guy whose best wins are against Adamek and controversially over Johnson?

No. Look at Lacy, look at the revisionism. Such beasts cite the Sheika fight as evidence that Lacy was there to be had. How much you want to bet they say similar things about Dawson in regards to Johnson?

Pavlik on the other hand iced Taylor then beat him again. He also decimated Miranda whom many Americans seem to rate very highly. Rightly or wrongly, Joe would get more credit imo for winning this fight.

There are even certain posters who have shat on RJJ's win over Hopkins even in the context of what he has achieved: he was too green apparently.

I want JC to get universal credit. If he beats Pavlik, he has beaten either directly or indirectly every guy worth fighting from 160 to 175.

But I do know where you are coming from.

What weight do you think it would take place at?

[TFFP]

No man.

Whilst I agree Dawson is the better fighter ask yourself will Joe get the credit he deserves if he beats Dawson right now? A guy whose best wins are against Adamek and controversially over Johnson?

No. Look at Lacy, look at the revisionism. Such beasts cite the Sheika fight as evidence that Lacy was there to be had. How much you want to bet they say similar things about Dawson in regards to Johnson?

Pavlik on the other hand iced Taylor then beat him again. He also decimated Miranda whom many Americans seem to rate very highly. Rightly or wrongly, Joe would get more credit imo for winning this fight.

There are even certain posters who have shat on RJJ's win over Hopkins even in the context of what he has achieved: he was too green apparently.

I want JC to get universal credit. If he beats Pavlik, he has beaten either directly or indirectly every guy worth fighting from 160 to 175.

But I do know where you are coming from.
Of course, in the short term he will get more credit for Pavlik because he's all the rage right now, but Pavlik will be exposed by counterpunchers or even boxer puncher types many times before his career is over

This is a matter of being confident in your analysis of fighters. Long term, Kessler and Dawson (if made) are going to look extremely good :yep

[Beatboxer]

What weight do you think it would take place at?

168, JC says hes comfortable going back down there and KP just fought at 166 so....I would say 168.

[brown bomber]

Dawson needs to beat Tarver to be the top contender in the division, Pavlik as garbage and over-rated as he is, is the Linear middleweight champion. I think Pavlik should be his last fight. Unless he gets upset by Lockett.

[dan-b]

168, JC says hes comfortable going back down there and KP just fought at 166 so....I would say 168.

Do you not think it could be a risk JC boling back down to 168 again?

[Beatboxer]

Of course, in the short term he will get more credit for Pavlik because he's all the rage right now, but Pavlik will be exposed by counterpunchers or even boxer puncher types many times before his career is over

This is a matter of being confident in your analysis of fighters. Long term, Kessler and Dawson (if made) are going to look extremely good :yep

Yeah I know what your saying mate...and I suppose your never going to please everyone.

I should add that im perhaps being a little selfish as im actually quite a big fan of Pavlik also so its one I would love to see happen in Britain.

But your point about certain wins appreciating over time stands though it can be a dodgy way to build your legacy on!

Put it this way I don't think anyone would have qualms over a Dawson bout. To me Pavlik or Dawson would do nicely.

RJJ im not thrilled about.

[Beatboxer]

Do you not think it could be a risk JC boling back down to 168 again?

I think thats a card that gets overplayed tbh ever since RJJ's collapse after going to heavy.

JC actually looked a little podgy I thought at 173, I don't think the 5 pounds would cause him too much distress at all too lose. Its not something that I believe would be a huge factor tbh.

[Beatboxer]

Dawson needs to beat Tarver to be the top contender in the division, Pavlik as garbage and over-rated as he is, is the Linear middleweight champion. I think Pavlik should be his last fight. Unless he gets upset by Lockett.

Thats my argument but I can see where TFFP is coming from...

[dan-b]

I think thats a card that gets overplayed tbh ever since RJJ's collapse after going to heavy.

JC actually looked a little podgy I thought at 173, I don't think the 5 pounds would cause him too much distress at all too lose. Its not something that I believe would be a huge factor tbh.

Fair enough. I think I'm with you on this one. Pavlik is the fight I want to see. Dawson looked poor in his last fight & Jones is past it. You'd have to say Pavlik is the "form man" besides JC in & around those higher weight classes.

[elle]

The British board to me, is largely a refuge from these haters who populate the general forum en mass. Its up to us to safeguard against them by calling them on their bullshit.


Have always considered the brit forum to be a cut above the others which is why its the only one I ever post on.

Perhaps its me but recently I've noticed more and more threads here seem to be dominated by futile exchanges and petty point scoring rather than just boxing which is a shame. Also seems to be quite a lot of bias being expressed which can be difficult to reason with. :-(

[Beatboxer]

Fair enough. I think I'm with you on this one. Pavlik is the fight I want to see. Dawson looked poor in his last fight & Jones is past it. You'd have to say Pavlik is the "form man" besides JC in & around those higher weight classes.

Yes.

No one wants to see Tarver even given milk duds amnesia when it comes to Hopkins 'im the man that beat the man' until you lost you idiot!

Woods is obviously gone. Dawson's stock dropped a little after his last fight. Erdei is off hiding in central or Eastern Europe somewhere. Bute is an unproven prospect, Taylor clean off two consecutive losses, Wright has also lost recently.

Its Pavlik for me when you assess everything. Dawson I would not be too fussed about.

RJJ is not one I want to see its as simple as that.

[Beatboxer]

Have always considered the brit forum to be a cut above the others which is why its the only one I ever post on.

Perhaps its me but recently I've noticed more and more threads here seem to be dominated by futile exchanges and petty point scoring rather than just boxing which is a shame. Also seems to be quite a lot of bias being expressed which can be difficult to reason with. :-(

Yup what I said there was a rallying call to the good posters here to unite against such idiots.

Just don't give them air time and they will go away.

[Fat Joe]

Yes.

No one wants to see Tarver even given milk duds amnesia when it comes to Hopkins 'im the man that beat the man' until you lost you idiot!

Woods is obviously gone. Dawson's stock dropped a little after his last fight. Erdei is off hiding in central or Eastern Europe somewhere. Bute is an unproven prospect, Taylor clean off two consecutive losses, Wright has also lost recently.

Its Pavlik for me when you assess everything. Dawson I would not be too fussed about.

RJJ is not one I want to see its as simple as that.

Ideally he'd fight both, but I've a feeling he'll stick to his word and retire after 1 more fight.

[dan-b]

Yup what I said there was a rallying call to the good posters here to unite against such idiots.

Just don't give them air time and they will go away.

I think we need to stop playing the discrediting game. I admit I've been guilty of it myself especially with regards to Hatton & there really is no point to it. I'm going to try & accept things the way they are in boxing & just enjoy each individual fight on it's own merit. Looking at the big picture often leads to resentment & a lot of the "hypejob", "nuthugger" posts on the main forum are based around heresay & conjecture.

[Beatboxer]

I think we need to stop playing the discrediting game. I admit I've been guilty of it myself especially with regards to Hatton & there really is no point to it. I'm going to try & accept things the way they are in boxing & just enjoy each individual fight on it's own merit. Looking at the big picture often leads to resentment & a lot of the "hypejob", "nuthugger" posts on the main forum are based around heresay & conjecture.

Yep, I mean I like a good debate and I have been forced to stand back and renew my position. For instance, in the lounge guys like MDWC highly formidable posters on the subject of football have forced me to concede points and review my position and I them.

Thats the whole point of the forum in my mind and we learn more about the sport we love if we do take on board what other clearly knowledgeable posters are saying.

Guys like yourself and Jeff even woke me up to what I was becoming: less a fan of boxing and more of a Hopkins hater and JC sack swinger.

Its fine to point out weaknesses in a guys fighting style or resume or whatever but to continually ignore the good and only highlight the bad...thats the basis of a blind hater in my mind and they are the scourge of this forum...no matter what form they take.

[Beatboxer]

Ideally he'd fight both, but I've a feeling he'll stick to his word and retire after 1 more fight.

I know your a big fan of Joe too mate but no. You have to know when to stop and to me its clear that Joe is in physical decline...two more fights might be enough for him to slow down enough to be beaten by a fighter he might have well beaten in his pomp.

There is always someone left to fight. Always. Marciano had Patterson, Lewis Klitschko. Are these guys really held to task over that? Not by objective fans they ain't.

One more fight for Joe then offski if I could have it my way.

[Beatboxer]

I'd say Dawson, because I think he'll do more and improve quite markedly after the Johnson debacle.

Pavlik to me is clearly limited, so it'd be another kicking. I don't think Calzaghe can win with the fuckwits on ESB.

Very true. I can't quite understand why that bothers me so much.

[Beatboxer]

It annoys me, but they do it to everyone.

If you lose, you're a bum. if you win, your opponent was a bum.

If you struggle with anyone, you're overrated, even if there are stylistic reasons for it.

if you turn down a fight or get injured, you're ducking. If you take a keep-busy fight as a breather after a hard fight, you might as well die.

If you fight anyone who's had a loss, they were shot. if you fight an undefeated young stud, they will be unproven and green. A hype job.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Its ridiculous.

[kayjay]

As you can see I'm a bit of a non-poster,but enjoy reading other people's opinions on a sport that I love.

The question always comes up of "Prime vs Prime",in arguments about mythical match-ups.
What do you guys think was Joe's prime?

We all know that Joe has bad hands,and has suffered numerous injuries.
Would it be safe to say that a peak Joe was long before the Lacy fight? and people are basing their opinion of who wins on the wrong version of Joe.

[TFFP]

As you can see I'm a bit of a non-poster,but enjoy reading other people's opinions on a sport that I love.

The question always comes up of "Prime vs Prime",in arguments about mythical match-ups.
What do you guys think was Joe's prime?

We all know that Joe has bad hands,and has suffered numerous injuries.
Would it be safe to say that a peak Joe was long before the Lacy fight? and people are basing their opinion of who wins on the wrong version of Joe.
I've watched Joe since Eubank, and it's a careful balance of getting the smart, experienced adaptable Joe whilst remaining at the peak of his physical powers which are clearly deteriorating. I would tend to agree it was well before the Lacy fight

[Beatboxer]

As you can see I'm a bit of a non-poster,but enjoy reading other people's opinions on a sport that I love.

The question always comes up of "Prime vs Prime",in arguments about mythical match-ups.
What do you guys think was Joe's prime?

We all know that Joe has bad hands,and has suffered numerous injuries.
Would it be safe to say that a peak Joe was long before the Lacy fight? and people are basing their opinion of who wins on the wrong version of Joe.

In my mind its hard to answer this question. Its not about physical prime's or mental prime's like it is so many other fighters but more to do with Calzaghes habit of fighting to the level of his opposition and also the hand injuries etc.

To me somewhat like Hopkins, its very hard to pinpoint Calzaghes 'prime' OK it was certainly sometime after 1997. But JC has been so darn inconsistent in winning that its very hard to tell when exactly he was in his prime.

For every good performance he had in the 90s and early part of this decade there was a mediocre one. For instance, he went from looking shit against Starie to performing very well against highly regarded Sheika. Apparently this was due to his hand injuries bothering him so much he couldn't even spar for fights...

He stagnated as well from 2003 until 2006 as well and I must say I thought his career was in danger of going out with a whimper until his resurgence in 2006 where he looked great against Lacy in every concievable way. To me that was his peak performance...but does that equate to him being in his prime? Not really and we can't even say that mentally he is in his prime...he has always had a habit of fighting to the level of his opposition and doing stupid things...the machoness against Mitchell to his stupidity in brawling with Bika...

If you had to hold a gun to my head, I would say his prime was probably from 2000 to 2003, after the Starie debacle he put in some very good performances against quality opposition such as Sheika, Woodhall and Brewer...its just strange that two of his best performances (Lacy and Kessler) have came outwith that prime...its something I agree that can certainly be debated though.

[kayjay]

When you think about it, Joe's had a rather a fustrating career until only recently.

He just missed out on the Benn-Eubank-Collins heydays which would of made him a household name,and his major contempory rival for most of his rein would not come out Germany and unify with him.

The Americans at the time considered SMW as the perserve of European middle-weights who couldn't make weight,or at best a stepping stone to LHW.
It took a bad performance against Bika (the irony being he was trying to impress) to have the next hyped superstar in Lacy and team believe that Joe was there for the taking and worth the risk in coming across the pond.
As we know the next hyped superstar turned into a 1-dimensional bum overnight.

Now Joe's at the end of his career,SMW has become a far more sexy division with a lot of fresh blood so perhaps that will become Joe's legacy.

For what's it worth I like to see Joe's last fight against Pavilik if only to shut up the haters,but I think the timing is wrong.Pavilik hasn't secured his position at MW yet, and neither has Dawson at LHW.
So probably it going to be Jones as his swansong,which is going to be as un-satifying as Lewis vs Tyson.

[Beatboxer]

When you think about it, Joe's had a rather a fustrating career until only recently.

He just missed out on the Benn-Eubank-Collins heydays which would of made him a household name,and his major contempory rival for most of his rein would not come out Germany and unify with him.

The Americans at the time considered SMW as the perserve of European middle-weights who couldn't make weight,or at best a stepping stone to LHW.
It took a bad performance against Bika (the irony being he was trying to impress) to have the next hyped superstar in Lacy and team believe that Joe was there for the taking and worth the risk in coming across the pond.
As we know the next hyped superstar turned into a 1-dimensional bum overnight.

Now Joe's at the end of his career,SMW has become a far more sexy division with a lot of fresh blood so perhaps that will become Joe's legacy.

For what's it worth I like to see Joe's last fight against Pavilik if only to shut up the haters,but I think the timing is wrong.Pavilik hasn't secured his position at MW yet, and neither has Dawson at LHW.
So probably it going to be Jones as his swansong,which is going to be as un-satifying as Lewis vs Tyson.

Nice post mate. Only thing is it was Ashira not Bika he looked so bad against in late 2005. Nonetheless I fully agree, he has had a frustrating career but still has a solid resume from even before the Lacy breakthrough which some idiots fail to acknowledge.

He missed the Benn, Eubank, Watson and Collins era and with it guys like RJJ and James Toney. The guys in my mind that he could have really got it on with were Ottke, Hopkins and DM. Contrary to what many say two of them avoided JC and in my mind what he had achieved certainly warranted a shot against either. If he had beaten Ottke or Hopkins the fact is that his profile would have been raised earlier and he would have gained more recogntion and thus bigger fights.

However, I do take him to task for DM. Why the heck not try to fight this guy when it was clear that Ottke wasn't game say around 2001 or 2002? If anything would have gotten Jones attention it would have been beating the linear heavyweight champ. The fact that this fight was never so much as mooted really disappoints me.

That being said, Joes career since 2006 has been awesome. He had some lost years for sure but even factoring that in, he has beaten some big names prior to the Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins fights. Joe has been a great champion and its time he got some recognition...a knighthood is very much deserved.

[kayjay]

Nice post mate. Only thing is it was Ashira not Bika he looked so bad against in late 2005. Nonetheless I fully agree, he has had a frustrating career but still has a solid resume from even before the Lacy breakthrough which some idiots fail to acknowledge.


Thanks,I stand corrected :patsch

[steelem]

wheres jeff thomas gone - or is he humiliated for picking hopkins over calzaghe lol

[brown bomber]

wheres jeff thomas gone - or is he humiliated for picking hopkins over calzaghe lol :? I predicted a Calzaghe UD what you on about? ;)

[Beeston Brawler]

I sat on the fence and left it alone, whilst JT lost all his 'money'!

[IrnBruMan]

Great summation Beatboxer :good