Greatest p4p fighters of the last 20 years, revised!

[Fedor Em]

I will give it a Go

1988-Current

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Julio Caesar Chavez
4. Evander Holyfield
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7. Erik Morales
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Oscar De La Hoya
12. James Toney
13. Manny Pacquiao
14. Joe Calzaghe
15. Felix Trinidad
16. Jeff Fenech
17. Shane Mosley
18. Winky Wright
19. Kostya Tszyu
20. Rafael Marquez

[kg0208]

I will give it a Go

1988-Current

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Julio Caesar Chavez
4. Evander Holyfield
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7. Erik Morales
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Oscar De La Hoya
12. James Toney
13. Manny Pacquiao
14. Joe Calzaghe
15. Felix Trinidad
16. Jeff Fenech
17. Shane Mosley
18. Winky Wright
19. Kostya Tszyu
20. Rafael Marquez

That is actually a very very solid list.

I am sure it will receive some critism. Pretty good effort IMO.

[Larson]

I would switch #1 with #2 but otherwise that's a pretty solid list.

[golfer3939a]

Nice list.
I'd switch 11 with 13..

[Fedor Em]

That is actually a very very solid list.

I am sure it will receive some critism. Pretty good effort IMO.

They always do. I was actually thinking about moving Chavez down below Holyfield and Hopkins. It is an unpopular choice but I think the 2 have faced as good a quality of fighters as Chavez. Holyfield or Hopkins has not been beaten wide at their peak either, even though Pea was extremely special.

[Sweet Pea]

I would switch #1 with #2 but otherwise that's a pretty solid list.Any particular reason?

[brooklyn1550]

Where would you rank Azumah Nelson? Top 25?

[Fedor Em]

Where would you rank Azumah Nelson? Top 25?

Definately, he probally should be in the top 20 actually

[Sweet Pea]

Where would you rank Azumah Nelson? Top 25?There's really no case for ranking Marquez ahead of him. Or really, ranking Rafa above JMM in my opinion.

[Amsterdam]

I will give it a Go

1988-Current

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Julio Caesar Chavez
4. Evander Holyfield
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7. Erik Morales
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Oscar De La Hoya
12. James Toney
13. Manny Pacquiao
14. Joe Calzaghe
15. Felix Trinidad
16. Jeff Fenech
17. Shane Mosley
18. Winky Wright
19. Kostya Tszyu
20. Rafael Marquez

Floyd should not be top under DLH or Mosely, both beat better fighters than he did and fought better fighters than he did. Against the level of opposition he's fought, they crushed them more impressively.

Also, I think Calzaghe has more claim to Tszyu's spot than Tszyu himself, in fact, he should just be ahead of Wright and Marquez should be top 25.

[Farmboxer]

Calzaghe's first fight at 175 and he fights Hopkins in Hopkins territory. First time for Joe to fight in US also. I say that takes guts.

[Amsterdam]

There's really no case for ranking Marquez ahead of him. Or really, ranking Rafa above JMM in my opinion.

That's one of the only problems, plus DLH so low and Floyd so high.

Also, if you've got Tszyu and Wright in the top 20, no Calzaghe? I feel he ranks over both all time clearly.

[Sweet Pea]

That's one of the only problems, plus DLH so low and Floyd so high.

Also, if you've got Tszyu and Wright in the top 20, no Calzaghe? I feel he ranks over both all time clearly.He has Calzaghe at #14.

Floyd easily ranks above Mosley.

[Amsterdam]

He has Calzaghe at #14.

Floyd easily ranks above Mosley.

:lol:

Didn't see that, well, new complaint, wouldn't have Calzaghe over Mosely, again people, let's look at what Mosely did as a natural LW in compared to Floyd and Calzaghe.

He has his losses, but his win over a prime DLH and general performance level against top fighters, including a prime Winky Wright where he nearly had the 2nd fight a draw at that big of a stylistic/size disadvantage says well for Mosely.

Would like to see Joy Boy even fight a P4P level WW, for comparison. Floyd doing well against Cotto, being he's a little smaller than Mosely, should equate to Mosely doing well against Wright, IMO.

[Amsterdam]

And I know Sweet Pea doesn't like my pro-James Toney stance, but to put Joy Boy ahead of him is a controversial. Toney's a LOCK for the top 10 with his competition level and resume(top 20 stiff comp of all time and check his win/loss ratio, pretty impressive).

:good

[Sweet Pea]

I think Toney's overrated, but he should be in the top 20 no doubt.

[Fedor Em]

Floyd should not be top under DLH or Mosely, both beat better fighters than he did and fought better fighters than he did. Against the level of opposition he's fought, they crushed them more impressively.

Also, I think Calzaghe has more claim to Tszyu's spot than Tszyu himself, in fact, he should just be ahead of Wright and Marquez should be top 25.

They both carried more power than Floyd does so they are gonna look better in beating B level competation. Floyd has never really been pushed to the limit other than Castillo 1 and he showed his class in the 2nd fight. I can't stand PBF but I gotta rank him high. The skill is supreme and he seems to have the intangables to warrant this rating. He has gotta face Cotto if Miguel keeps on winning or I drop him based on lack of a sack.

I don't really see the arguement of anyone not in the top 20 besides Nelson. Well Carabajal and González have a great case.

[Amsterdam]

I think Toney's overrated, but he should be in the top 20 no doubt.

Well I think he's underrated and while I'm not a big fan, I have to stick up for somebody getting heavily underrated, his resume is FANTASTIC, look at all of the elite fighters he fought in his career, he has losses yes, and Mayweather has 1 loss IMO, to Castillo, but Mayweather's also never fought an elite fighter, big difference.

I'd go as far as saying that Toney's competition is the stiffest of the lot, including Whitaker's absurdly difficult comp. Whitaker obviously ranks 1 or 2 however because of how many he outclassed.....

You know?

I'm just asking for Toney to be top 10 and for Joy Boy to be up for review here, no bias, as I contest that my favourite Calzaghe does not deserve to be that high just yet.

[brooklyn1550]

There's really no case for ranking Marquez ahead of him. Or really, ranking Rafa above JMM in my opinion.

If the ranking is based primarily on head to head ability, I would rank Juan Manuel above Rafael without hesitation. Just a more complete fighter with more tools at his disposal.

But if we're going mostly on accomplishments, I think there's a case to be made for Rafael. His top wins over Vazquez, Johnson, Austin, and Mabuza are probably better than Barrera, Juarez, Gainer, and Peden. Plus one could make a case for his reign at bantamweight being more dominant than his brother's reign at featherweight.

I'm saying this though as somebody who ranks Juan Manuel higher in accomplishments since he's never really been dominated or stopped, has unified a division, and should have two wins against Manny Pacquiao who's better than anybody on Rafael's resume.

[Fedor Em]

There's really no case for ranking Marquez ahead of him. Or really, ranking Rafa above JMM in my opinion.

JMM has the greater skill set than Rafa but Rafa has beaten 2 possible ATG's at Bantam and a very solid HOF fighter at Superbantam. He has the more proven record.

[Amsterdam]

If the ranking is based primarily on head to head ability, I would rank Juan Manuel above Rafael without hesitation. Just a more complete fighter with more tools at his disposal.

But if we're going mostly on accomplishments, I think there's a case to be made for Rafael. His top wins over Vazquez, Johnson, Austin, and Mabuza are probably better than Barrera, Juarez, Gainer, and Peden. Plus one could make a case for his reign at bantamweight being more dominant than his brother's reign at featherweight.

I'm saying this though as somebody who ranks Juan Manuel higher in accomplishments since he's never really been dominated or stopped, has unified a division, and should have two wins against Manny Pacquiao who's better than anybody on Rafael's resume.

Brooklyn, back me up my friend, Joy Boy over Toney, DLH and others?

No way in hell, fight an elite fighter cuntbag.:yep

[Sweet Pea]

Well I think he's underrated and while I'm not a big fan, I have to stick up for somebody getting heavily underrated, his resume is FANTASTIC, look at all of the elite fighters he fought in his career, he has losses yes, and Mayweather has 1 loss IMO, to Castillo, but Mayweather's also never fought an elite fighter, big difference.

I'd go as far as saying that Toney's competition is the stiffest of the lot, including Whitaker's absurdly difficult comp. Whitaker obviously ranks 1 or 2 however because of how many he outclassed.....

You know?

I'm just asking for Toney to be top 10 and for Joy Boy to be up for review here, no bias, as I contest that my favourite Calzaghe does not deserve to be that high just yet.What do you make of Toney's inconsistency and gift decisions against low level bums like Dave Tiberi, losses to Drake Thadzi, etc? His boxing ability, while very good, is a tad overrated too I believe, though he had some great performances.

I believe people rate him so highly because of his jump in weight classes, not because of any type of consistency or dominance at any weight past 168(where he still managed to get schooled badly by the best man he fought). And as an analyst like yourself knows, the Heavyweights he fought were not exactly great in terms of top class Heavyweight ability. Ruiz, shot Holyfield, Rahman, Peter(the best of the bunch, though he got smoked in the rematch), etc.

[kg0208]

For those calling for Mosley over Mayweather, realize that Mosley hasn't BEATEN better comp than Mayweather. He may have fought better competition, but he lost to nearly all the great fighters he fought.

[Fedor Em]

Brooklyn, back me up my friend, Joy Boy over Toney, DLH and others?

No way in hell, fight an elite fighter cuntbag.:yep

No way does Toney really have a case over Floyd. His best wins were Nunn and Jirov. Not much better than the host of very good fighters Floyd has beaten, I didn't say great I said very good:lol: . Even though Nunn was a beast. Toney has some poor losses to that hurt. He was way too inconsistent to be above Floyd.

Ok I am done defending PBF

DLH has a pretty strong case and perhaps I have him a bit low. His resmue is extremely deep, but not always consistent in his biggest fights, and possibly gotten a few gifts even though he was robbed against Tito. He fought a bunch of monsters I will say that.

[Amsterdam]

For those calling for Mosley over Mayweather, realize that Mosley hasn't BEATEN better comp than Mayweather. He may have fought better competition, but he lost to nearly all the great fighters he fought.

How do you think Mayweather does against Mosely's comp?

And also, 2 wins over DLH, one peak where he was arguably undefeated as a natural LW, then of course nearly taking Winky to Draw in the rematch is arguably better than anything Floyd's ever done.

Floyd has no wins over elite's, just more wins over good fighters in abundance, depends on how you want to rate that.

Can't see Floyd defeating a prime DLH at any weight, Forrest, Wright and Cotto now, Mosely was past his best when he nearly got a win over Cotto.

Mosely's lost to 3 fighters - Forrest, Wright and Cotto, 3 elite fighters, two who had tremendous style advantages over him at that. Two were 2 divisions up from his natural weight and 1 was 3 divisions up.

[Amsterdam]

No way does Toney really have a case over Floyd. His best wins were Nunn and Jirov. Not much better than the host of very good fighters Floyd has beaten, I didn't say great I said very good:lol: . Even though Nunn was a beast. Toney has some poor losses to that hurt. He was way too inconsistent to be above Floyd.

Ok I am done defending PBF

DLH has a pretty strong case and perhaps I have him a bit low. His resmue is extremely deep, but not always consistent in his biggest fights, and possibly gotten a few gifts even though he was robbed against Tito. He fought a bunch of monsters I will say that.

Moving onto DLH...

YEAH, he has losses, but look who he fought and look who Floyd fought. Floyd's fought about half that competition level at best and has an unofficial loss to Castillo, a non-elite. DLH's losses came at Welter or above and all vs. top elite fighters at that, and he was competitive against all of them, including a little bit with Hopkins....

No fucking way does Floyd compete with that kind of performance level or resume. Cunt struggles twice with Castillo 1 division up, DLH fights and TKO's a superior fighter P4P to Castillo in Vargas 3 divisions up from his best weight, by comparison. That's just 1 example there Fedor EM.

[brooklyn1550]

Brooklyn, back me up my friend, Joy Boy over Toney, DLH and others?

No way in hell, fight an elite fighter cuntbag.

I'll do my best to help you out with this one. Gonna be tough though.

I rank Toney and De La Hoya higher than Mayweather currently. I realize Floyd has gone undefeated through 5 different weight classes, but he's never beaten an elite fighter. He has a bunch of wins over very good fighters and I suppose you could rank him higher because of that.

Toney has Nunn, McCallum x 2, Jirov, Holyfield, Barkley, Williams, and Johnson. Was competitive with heavyweights and should have a win a piece over Ruiz and Peter.

De La Hoya has Whitaker, Chavez x 2, Quartey, Vargas, Hernandez, etc. Should have wins over Trinidad and Mosley at 154. Was competitive against Hopkins.

I think those victories are better than De La Hoya, Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, Hernandez, and Judah.

Say what you want about the Whitaker win being controversial, but even that version of Whitaker was better than Castillo, who Floyd struggled massively with. Floyd's stylistic advantage should have allowed him to pepper Castillo and dominate him.

[kg0208]

How do you think Mayweather does against Mosely's comp?

And also, 2 wins over DLH, one peak where he was arguably undefeated as a natural LW, then of course nearly taking Winky to Draw in the rematch is arguably better than anything Floyd's ever done.

Floyd has no wins over elite's, just more wins over good fighters in abundance, depends on how you want to rate that.

Can't see Floyd defeating a prime DLH at any weight, Forrest, Wright and Cotto now, Mosely was past his best when he nearly got a win over Cotto.

Mosely's lost to 3 fighters - Forrest, Wright and Cotto, 3 elite fighters, two who had tremendous style advantages over him at that. Two were 2 divisions up from his natural weight and 1 was 3 divisions up.
Corrales was elite at the time Mayweather beat him. Castillo would be termed elite now, considering that he has wins over both the current LW champions. Hatton was considered elite until Mayweather was about to fight him, then suddenly he wasn't. In context of WHEN he fought them, they were the best fighters in his division, besides Hatton. Hindsight can change alot. And I feel that isn't fair or even consistant.

Mayweather would probably have some losses against Mosley's competition. But you can't base a list on that.

[Farmboxer]

I think Hopkins picks Ruiz as the best p4p after last night.

[EARL]

What do you make of Toney's inconsistency and gift decisions against low level bums like Dave Tiberi, losses to Drake Thadzi, etc? His boxing ability, while very good, is a tad overrated too I believe, though he had some great performances.

I believe people rate him so highly because of his jump in weight classes, not because of any type of consistency or dominance at any weight past 168(where he still managed to get schooled badly by the best man he fought). And as an analyst like yourself knows, the Heavyweights he fought were not exactly great in terms of top class Heavyweight ability. Ruiz, shot Holyfield, Rahman, Peter(the best of the bunch, though he got smoked in the rematch), etc.

He only had one gift decision to a low level fighter, which I'll admit is bad enough, but he's fought and beaten so much great competition that it still elevates him very high on any list. I think you were the one who said that.. depending on what style he fought he could look brilliant one night and shit on another night.

[Amsterdam]

Corrales was elite at the time Mayweather beat him. Castillo would be termed elite now, considering that he has wins over both the current LW champions. Hatton was considered elite until Mayweather was about to fight him, then suddenly he wasn't.

Elite, meaning BEST level the sport has to offer. Not just top of the division, Corrales not an elite, a top level, but not a real elite, Castillo the same.

Hatton, at 147, not even close to elite, at 147 he's not even a top 5.


Mayweather would probably have some losses against Mosley's competition. But you can't base a list on that.


Yes you can if he's consistently fought better competition level, you can't get by on Mayweather's competition just because he's undefeated on paper and then expect to rank him over guys who fought comp 2 level's up and performed well or won also.

Cotto, the guy Mayweather needs to fight, is a notch down from DLH, Quartey, Whitaker, Mosely, Forrest and what not that these guys were fighting against. Most people would not disagree with that.

Era's are not made equally.

[Amsterdam]

I'll do my best to help you out with this one. Gonna be tough though.

I rank Toney and De La Hoya higher than Mayweather currently. I realize Floyd has gone undefeated through 5 different weight classes, but he's never beaten an elite fighter. He has a bunch of wins over very good fighters and I suppose you could rank him higher because of that.

Toney has Nunn, McCallum x 2, Jirov, Holyfield, Barkley, Williams, and Johnson. Was competitive with heavyweights and should have a win a piece over Ruiz and Peter.

De La Hoya has Whitaker, Chavez x 2, Quartey, Vargas, Hernandez, etc. Should have wins over Trinidad and Mosley at 154. Was competitive against Hopkins.

I think those victories are better than De La Hoya, Castillo, Corrales, Hatton, Hernandez, and Judah.

Say what you want about the Whitaker win being controversial, but even that version of Whitaker was better than Castillo, who Floyd struggled massively with. Floyd's stylistic advantage should have allowed him to pepper Castillo and dominate him.

Their 2nd tier wins can be compared also, performance level wise. Look at how DLH annihilates the 2nd tier and how Floyd sometimes has minor issue's with them depending on style.

[Sweet Pea]

He only had one gift decision to a low level fighter, which I'll admit is bad enough, but he's fought and beaten so much great competition that it still elevates him very high on any list. I think you were the one who said that.. depending on what style he fought he could look brilliant one night and shit on another night.I don't think he's beaten "so much great competition" to be honest. He's beaten a few top notch fighters and some Heavyweights.

The last part is true, though, which is why, head to head, I don't consider him as brilliant as some do. Many consider him so good at his best because of how he dealt with guys like Barkley, who came to him, but assume he was having an off night when he faced a skilled outboxer like Nunn or Jones.

His style was pretty limited the way I see it, though I've not seen his first fight with McCallum, which I've heard is his best performance(one of McCallum's best as well).

[kg0208]

Elite, meaning BEST level the sport has to offer. Not just top of the division, Corrales not an elite, a top level, but not a real elite, Castillo the same.

Hatton, at 147, not even close to elite, at 147 he's not even a top 5.


Yes you can if he's consistently fought better competition level, you can't get by on Mayweather's competition just because he's undefeated on paper and then expect to rank him over guys who fought comp 2 level's up and performed well or won also.

Cotto, the guy Mayweather needs to fight, is a notch down from DLH, Quartey, Whitaker, Mosely, Forrest and what not that these guys were fighting against. Most people would not disagree with that.

Era's are not made equally.
Corrales was a Top 5 P4P fighter in the sport. You don't get much higher than that. Castillo had just beaten Johnston, and much like Mijares now, took a long time to develop and had early losses. The fact that he nearly (and most likely did) beat Mayweather and he defeated Corrales and Casamayor as well puts him at elite IMO. And Cotto is a better fighter than Forrest and Quartey. He may end up better than Mosley and DLH, but he is not yet prime.

Your thoughts on who is "elite" is based purely on your analysis of each fighter. I'm sorry, but I disagree with that and always have. And you analysis of their competition is based off the same thing. So basically anyone you decide can be elite because it's totally subjective.

[Fedor Em]

Moving onto DLH...

YEAH, he has losses, but look who he fought and look who Floyd fought. Floyd's fought about half that competition level at best and has an unofficial loss to Castillo, a non-elite. DLH's losses came at Welter or above and all vs. top elite fighters at that, and he was competitive against all of them, including a little bit with Hopkins....

No fucking way does Floyd compete with that kind of performance level or resume. Cunt struggles twice with Castillo 1 division up, DLH fights and TKO's a superior fighter P4P to Castillo in Vargas 3 divisions up from his best weight, by comparison. That's just 1 example there Fedor EM.

You gotta bring 130 into the equation though. Sure Oscar was the more proven fighter at the higher weights but Floyd's body of work is top 3 all time at Superfeather. Do I think Floyd beats Quartey....no but then again I don't think Oscar did either. Does he beat Tito at 147, it is very possible. We have not seen PBF seriously hurt so nothing to suggest otherwise. Mosley at 147 at his best I would have favored over Floyd but Oscar lost to him clearly as well. Not far fetched that a peak Mayweather hangs with a 97 Whitaker, and outpoints an old Chavez handly as well.

Oscar is the naturally bigger fighter too..

[o_money]

I would switch #1 with #2 but otherwise that's a pretty solid list.

You would be amoung the minority.

[EARL]

I don't think he's beaten "so much great competition" to be honest. He's beaten a few top notch fighters and some Heavyweights.

The last part is true, though, which is why, head to head, I don't consider him as brilliant as some do. Many consider him so good at his best because of how he dealt with guys like Barkley, who came to him, but assume he was having an off night when he faced a skilled outboxer like Nunn or Jones.

His style was pretty limited the way I see it, though I've not seen his first fight with McCallum, which I've heard is his best performance(one of McCallum's best as well).

I just speak from my own opinion when I say this, but.. I don't think people really consider Toney " brilliant " or a " genious " or anything, I think they just appreciate the immense skill level that he possesses, and you've gotta admit.. for the style that he fights no fighter really has it mastered quite like James Toney does. And as for Nunn, I don't necessarily think Toney wasn't at his best for that fight I think that Nunn falls under the category of someone whose a difficult style for Toney, but it's still to Toney's credit that he beat Nunn. Punching power is as effective a skill as anything else.

[Amsterdam]

Corrales was a Top 5 P4P fighter in the sport. You don't get much higher than that.

Trash like Jermain taylor was p4p top 5 at one point also, doesn't make that an accurate assessment for being elite either.

Castillo had just beaten Johnston, and much like Mijares now, took a long time to develop and had early losses.

Beat Johnston close, and Johnston is who we are talking about here, not anything noteworthy.

The fact that he nearly (and most likely did) beat Mayweather and he defeated Corrales and Casamayor as well puts him at elite IMO.

Casamayor win close and controversial, but fair enough, personally I've never ranked Casamayor as P4P, elite or anything of the like, just a very good skillful top tier that I actually liked watching.

Elite to me means some of the best the sport has to offer, a very marginal 5-10% at any given time among known fighters. Mosely and Hoya fought at this level consistently.

And Cotto is a better fighter than Forrest and Quartey. He may end up better than Mosley and DLH, but he is not yet prime.

Impossible, look at Cotto's struggles against lesser fighters than both of these guys smashed, and second, he is prime right now, look at how a past prime Mosely handled him and nearly beat him at that.

Your thoughts on who is "elite" is based purely on your analysis of each fighter. I'm sorry, but I disagree with that and always have.

It's better than following traditional style'd rankings.


And you analysis of their competition is based off the same thing. So basically anyone you decide can be elite because it's totally subjective.


Not at all, but they have to show elite ability and perform like an elite fighter does, do you know to gauge that? Compare their performances to past elite and ATG's against similiar competition.

Take modern guy vs. B+, then compare to a similiar stylist of a closer era vs. B+ guy. This is one way, there are many ways.

Corrales, Castillo and these flawed B+ fucks though? Nah, sorry, I prefer to keep my elite rating for true impressiveness.

[kg0208]

Trash like Jermain taylor was p4p top 5 at one point also, doesn't make that an accurate assessment for being elite either.



Beat Johnston close, and Johnston is who we are talking about here, not anything noteworthy.



Casamayor win close and controversial, but fair enough, personally I've never ranked Casamayor as P4P, elite or anything of the like, just a very good skillful top tier that I actually liked watching.

Elite to me means some of the best the sport has to offer, a very marginal 5-10% at any given time among known fighters. Mosely and Hoya fought at this level consistently.



Impossible, look at Cotto's struggles against lesser fighters than both of these guys smashed, and second, he is prime right now, look at how a past prime Mosely handled him and nearly beat him at that.



It's better than following traditional style'd rankings.



Not at all, but they have to show elite ability and perform like an elite fighter does, do you know to gauge that? Compare their performances to past elite and ATG's against similiar competition.

Take modern guy vs. B+, then compare to a similiar stylist of a closer era vs. B+ guy. This is one way, there are many ways.

Corrales, Castillo and these flawed B+ fucks though? Nah, sorry, I prefer to keep my elite rating for true impressiveness.
It's not better because you think it's better. And being as how you made it, it certainly doesn't make sense that you wouldn't think that it's better. But it doesn't make it so. Jermaine Taylor is a fine fighter, despite your hate for him. Quartey struggled with other fighters non elite, and Forrest was beaten by Mayorga twice who is certainly far from elite or even very good. I am sure you will fall back on "style difference", but again, that is your opinion. You cannot back up your opinion with your opinion. Cotto is better than them.

I will go with my own system, and I stand by my original assessment. Your opinion is not good enough to support an entire system of rankings.

[Amsterdam]

It's not better because you think it's better. And being as how you made it, it certainly doesn't make sense that you wouldn't think that it's better. But it doesn't make it so. Jermaine Taylor is a fine fighter, despite your hate for him. Quartey struggled with other fighters non elite, and Forrest was beaten by Mayorga twice who is certainly far from elite or even very good. I am sure you will fall back on "style difference", but again, that is your opinion. You cannot back up your opinion with your opinion. Cotto is better than them.

I will go with my own system, and I stand by my original assessment. Your opinion is not good enough to support an entire system of rankings.

Save for several glaring inaccuracy's, it's been pretty spot on, not finished with it just yet, I shall reach boxing assessment perfection however very shortly.

Then I can be called Sir Amsterdam by all of the peasants around.

Cool?;)

[kg0208]

Save for several glaring inaccuracy's, it's been pretty spot on, not finished with it just yet, I shall reach boxing assessment perfection however very shortly.

Then I can be called Sir Amsterdam by all of the peasants around.

Cool?;)

:smoke:lol::lol:

[Axe]

Solid list Fedor.

Don't think Marquez belongs at all. Or Lennox for that matter.

Otherwise great stuff.

[eliqueiros]

I will give it a Go

1988-Current

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Julio Caesar Chavez
4. Evander Holyfield
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7. Erik Morales
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Oscar De La Hoya
12. James Toney
13. Manny Pacquiao
14. Joe Calzaghe
15. Felix Trinidad
16. Jeff Fenech
17. Shane Mosley
18. Winky Wright
19. Kostya Tszyu
20. Rafael Marquez

Bringing Floyd down below DLH will give you a better list.

[eliqueiros]

You gotta bring 130 into the equation though. Sure Oscar was the more proven fighter at the higher weights but Floyd's body of work is top 3 all time at Superfeather. Do I think Floyd beats Quartey....no but then again I don't think Oscar did either. Does he beat Tito at 147, it is very possible. We have not seen PBF seriously hurt so nothing to suggest otherwise. Mosley at 147 at his best I would have favored over Floyd but Oscar lost to him clearly as well. Not far fetched that a peak Mayweather hangs with a 97 Whitaker, and outpoints an old Chavez handly as well.

Oscar is the naturally bigger fighter too..

Well, we'll never know because Floyd never fought any of those guys. Oscar did. Shit, we will never know if Floyd beats his #1 contender.

[CJLightweight]

I will give it a Go

1988-Current

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Julio Caesar Chavez
4. Evander Holyfield
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7. Erik Morales
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Oscar De La Hoya
12. James Toney
13. Manny Pacquiao
14. Joe Calzaghe
15. Felix Trinidad
16. Jeff Fenech
17. Shane Mosley
18. Winky Wright
19. Kostya Tszyu
20. Rafael Marquez

i am fine with the list overall, except i think calzaghe is too high on that list. I would put him below winky as winky has more better wins. Where is vasquez and jmm, shouldn't they be higher than rafa? But if you have a different basis its fine by me

[rendog67]

good list i would be tempted to switch rjj to number 1

[PacDbest]

I will give it a Go

1988-Current

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Roy Jones Jr.
3. Julio Caesar Chavez
4. Evander Holyfield
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
7. Erik Morales
8. Ricardo Lopez
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Oscar De La Hoya
12. James Toney
13. Manny Pacquiao
14. Joe Calzaghe
15. Felix Trinidad
16. Jeff Fenech
17. Shane Mosley
18. Winky Wright
19. Kostya Tszyu
20. Rafael Marquez

Pac can't be lower than EM, MAB & Lopez. He's accomplished more than this guys!!!