Hatton's whipping by PBF

[Fat Joe]

Was it more damaging to his reputation as a fighter, than the damage done to Calzaghe's reputation for not fighting a prime RJJ or BHop?

[skellington]

It's how he comes back.

[Fat Joe]

It's how he comes back.

:good Perfect answer - took me by surprise for some reason.

[SleazeNation]

It's a sad thing to see when Calzaghe fights a 43 year old version of Hopkins and a poll on this forum has over half saying he'd have beat a prime Hopkins aswell.

Why bother with risking anything against a fighter when he's prime and the best p4p, when you can just wait till they're old and people will believe it wouldv'e happened the same way 10 years earlier.

Amir Khan should just wait 10 years and fight Mayweather when he's 41, it'd please most of this forum on current opinion of Calzaghe.

:patsch

[JonOli]

Sadly yes and that shouldn't be so. IMO, Toney, RJJ and prime Hopkins all beat Calzaghe convincingly, that was easy to see Saturday night. For what ever reasons Joe has always managed to avoid fightng the top Americans in there prime and has been rewarded for it. Hatton took the plunge and his boxing reputation has been far more damaged then Joes has been by his unwilliness to chase the best.

If you were a boxer looking at that you would think it best to take the Calzaghe root and avoid the real top opositon.

[Fat Joe]

Sadly yes and that shouldn't be so.

I think you are right. I'm a fan of Calzaghe and not much of a fan of Hatton these days, but I think your comment hits the nail on the head.

[Dunky McCafferty]

It's a sad thing to see when Calzaghe fights a 43 year old version of Hopkins and a poll on this forum has over half saying he'd have beat a prime Hopkins aswell.

Why bother with risking anything against a fighter when he's prime and the best p4p, when you can just wait till they're old and people will believe it wouldv'e happened the same way 10 years earlier.

Amir Khan should just wait 10 years and fight Mayweather when he's 41, it'd please most of this forum on current opinion of Calzaghe.

:patsch

Now THATS a good post.

[Govanmauler]

I agreee that Hopkins wasnt at his best anymore but despite not having a belt most were calling him the Champ , No one was calling for him to retire after Tarver so why shouldnt Joe get credit for Beating him ?

I think if you mtatch 30 year old Calz against 37 year old Hop the result is the same, Yes Bernard has slipped a little but IMO so has Calz

[Govanmauler]

Also there are only 7 years bewtween them

Nate Campbell was 12 years older than Diaz and in a divison where speed and reflexes are more important.

[Beatboxer]

Oh please.

Perhaps Sleaze Nation would have a point if for instance Mayweather was at that stage still the reigning WW champion and was still beating top notch competition.

If that were the case then of course Khan would get some credit.

There are a whole host of other factors to consider as well but no matter how much the Calzaghe haters try to twist it:

Hes going down in history as the greatest SMW of all time.
One of the best fighters in British history.
Undefeated - A two weight World Champion.

His record will stand up to scrutiny and people will understand why big fights eluded him for so long. No he wasn't totally blameless, but there is no doubt he did try big time for Ottke and Hopkins...which could have led to an even bigger bout down the road.

Hatton will be remembered as a loveable fat man who for many managed his career very well from a financial perspective, but ultimately was only a very good rather than great fighter.

For his legacy's sake he is best to stay the fuck away from Witter.

[kungfu]

Toney, RJJ and prime Hopkins all beat Calzaghe convincingly, that was easy to see Saturday night.

Joe is also not the same boxer as he was dont forget, he used to hit harder so basing it on saturdays performance is meaningless.

[SleazeNation]

Oh please.

Perhaps Sleaze Nation would have a point if for instance Mayweather was at that stage still the reigning WW champion and was still beating top notch competition.

If that were the case then of course Khan would get some credit.

There are a whole host of other factors to consider as well but no matter how much the Calzaghe haters try to twist it:

Hes going down in history as the greatest SMW of all time.
One of the best fighters in British history.
Undefeated - A two weight World Champion.

His record will stand up to scrutiny and people will understand why big fights eluded him for so long. No he wasn't totally blameless, but there is no doubt he did try big time for Ottke and Hopkins...which could have led to an even bigger bout down the road.

Hatton will be remembered as a loveable fat man who for many managed his career very well from a financial perspective, but ultimately was only a very good rather than great fighter.

For his legacy's sake he is best to stay the fuck away from Witter.
To actual boxing fans who know what they're watching Hatton will forever be remembered for fighting the best boxer in the world in his prime.
Calzaghe will be remembered for not.

[Beatboxer]

To actual boxing fans who know what they're watching Hatton will forever be remembered for fighting the best boxer in the world in his prime.
Calzaghe will be remembered for not.

Who will be remembered as the greater fighter?

I could start a whole topic on this. I suppose DM and Hopkins ought to be dismissed too I mean Hopkins only took on Jones when he wasn't even in the p4p rankings....

Or should we go further back...and completly disregard fighters who failed to erm try hard enough to fight the p4p number 1 when they weren't in their division.

[Tony Harrison]

For his legacy's sake he is best to stay the fuck away from Witter.

A Hatton win over Witter would redeem some of the shine his battering at the hands of Floyd took off his career though.

I take it you pick Witter in such a contest.

Regarding Calzaghe's lack of certain names on his record I think it's slightly unfair to use these fights not happening to discredit Joe. They did try and get Hopkins as we all know and Roy has been moving up and down in weight doing his own thing for years. If Calzaghe was in the business of ducking people to maintain his status as no.1 he would never have fought Kessler.

[Tony Harrison]

To actual boxing fans who know what they're watching Hatton will forever be remembered for fighting the best boxer in the world in his prime.
Calzaghe will be remembered for not.

I agree Ricky doesn't get much credit for forcing this fight. However to discredit Calzaghe because Nard was old is not looking at the bigger picture. Nard was the top LH and still operating at the highest level. Calzaghe did go to Vegas and get the win.

[SleazeNation]

They did try and get Hopkins as we all know and Roy has been moving up and down in weight doing his own thing for years. If Calzaghe was in the business of ducking people to maintain his status as no.1 he would never have fought Kessler.
Roy's been a light heavyweight from 1997-present, except for ONE heavyweight fight in 2003. "Moving up and down in weight doing his own thing for years" is incorrect.

Kessler is not Roy Jones, Kessler has never been a p4p fighter, let alone #1 p4p for years. Not comparable.

[Beatboxer]

A Hatton win over Witter would redeem some of the shine his battering at the hands of Floyd took off his career though.

I take it you pick Witter in such a contest.

Regarding Calzaghe's lack of certain names on his record I think it's slightly unfair to use these fights not happening to discredit Joe. They did try and get Hopkins as we all know and Roy has been moving up and down in weight doing his own thing for years. If Calzaghe was in the business of ducking people to maintain his status as no.1 he would never have fought Kessler.

Yes I do but I do acknowledge that Hatton is not without hope. Witter is of course somewhat lazy in the ring and there is little doubt that Hatton could exploit this.

Agree with the 2nd part of your post. Ive went into some depth in the past about the cirumstances surrounding Calzaghes failure to fight Hopkins, Jones, Ottke and DM. Ive been balanced about it too and backed it up, but old sleaze nation here just can't accept any points what so ever in this respect, twisting and spinning everything to suit his agenda.

According to him, because Ottke frequently pretended not to know of Calzaghe existence, JC should have went to Germany fought any contender knocked on his door called him out and made concessions to fight in Germany :rofl

The guy is a nonsensical hater. He ought to be ignored.

[SleazeNation]

Yes I do but I do acknowledge that Hatton is not without hope. Witter is of course somewhat lazy in the ring and there is little doubt that Hatton could exploit this.

Agree with the 2nd part of your post. Ive went into some depth in the past about the cirumstances surrounding Calzaghes failure to fight Hopkins, Jones, Ottke and DM. Ive been balanced about it too and backed it up, but old sleaze nation here just can't accept any points what so ever in this respect, twisting and spinning everything to suit his agenda.

According to him, because Ottke frequently pretended not to know of Calzaghe existence, JC should have went to Germany fought any contender knocked on his door called him out and made concessions to fight in Germany :rofl

The guy is a nonsensical hater. He ought to be ignored.
Getting a fight with Ottke and beating him would have been an impressive win due to the adversity it would have taken to achieve it. But Calzaghe wants everything and everyone to come to him, I know.

[Beatboxer]

Getting a fight with Ottke and beating him would have been an impressive win due to the adversity it would have taken to achieve it. But Calzaghe wants everything and everyone to come to him, I know.

:rofl

Have you ever heard of coming and going? Jesus fucking Christ it was plain as day that Ottke wanted no part of JC but just do suit your hate filled agenda you spew some of the most biased nonsensical bullshit ever heard.

JC went to America actually beat the reigning LHW champion in his own back yard - deal with it.

[Tony Harrison]

Roy's been a light heavyweight from 1997-present, except for ONE heavyweight fight in 2003. "Moving up and down in weight doing his own thing for years" is incorrect.

Kessler is not Roy Jones, Kessler has never been a p4p fighter, let alone #1 p4p for years. Not comparable.

So you believe Calzaghe should have gone up to LH years ago?

Indeed Kessler is not Roy Jones but he is a big dangerous muthafucka who many predicted had the beating of Calzaghe.

Ottke was a wanker who lost to Reid. After that debacle he deserves to fade into obscurity.

[SleazeNation]

:rofl

Have you ever heard of coming and going? Jesus fucking Christ it was plain as day that Ottke wanted no part of JC but just do suit your hate filled agenda you spew some of the most biased nonsensical bullshit ever heard.

JC went to America actually beat the reigning LHW champion in his own back yard - deal with it.
I just wanted to see him fight a great fighter at some point for the last 10 years. If you're happy with a 43 year old version of Bernard Hopkins, then you're happy so shut up.

I'm not. So I'm talking about it.

[Beatboxer]

So you believe Calzaghe should have gone up to LH years ago?

Indeed Kessler is not Roy Jones but he is a big dangerous muthafucka who many predicted had the beating of Calzaghe.

Ottke was a wanker who lost to Reid. After that debacle he deserves to fade into obscurity.

The spinsters would have said had Calzaghe gone up when he said he was in 2004 that he was doing it because Jones had recently been defeated and he was fleeing the division due to the twin threats of the up coming Lacy and Kessler.

Hell thats what they were saying on here back then. You just can't win with these guys, they refuse to give JC any credit.

This individual is the worst however.

[SleazeNation]

So you believe Calzaghe should have gone up to LH years ago?

Indeed Kessler is not Roy Jones but he is a big dangerous muthafucka who many predicted had the beating of Calzaghe.

Ottke was a wanker who lost to Reid. After that debacle he deserves to fade into obscurity.
I believe he should have fought at light hevyweight, at least once. There was ZERO percent chance of Roy Jones at his peak defending his light heavyweight titles against a super middleweight who didn't have a name in America. He NEVER defended against anyone who had never fought at the weight.

Just make the fight a possibility, that's not too hard is it.

[Tony Harrison]

I believe he should have fought at light hevyweight, at least once. There was ZERO percent chance of Roy Jones at his peak defending his light heavyweight titles against a super middleweight who didn't have a name in America. He NEVER defended against anyone who had never fought at the weight.

Just make the fight a possibility, that's not too hard is it.

I think you're being slightly unreasonable on this one. The fact remains they tried to get Nard and failed by no fault of Calzaghe or ******.

True they didn't drop everything and go to America to fight on undercards in the vain hope Roy Jones might grant them their wish.

[SleazeNation]

I think you're being slightly unreasonable on this one. The fact remains they tried to get Nard and failed by no fault of Calzaghe or ******.

True they didn't drop everything and go to America to fight on undercards in the vain hope Roy Jones might grant them their wish.
Hopkins was middleweight champion, for that fight to be made he would have had to leave his own division and fight a guy in Britain who had no name in America.
This was at a time when Calzaghe wasn't even the super middleweight champion, him and Ottke were belt holders with no recognised #1.
And ****** offered 1 million, I don't see how a fighter who had the reputation of Bernard would ever have accepted a fight like that, with nothing to gain.

Anyway, I've said mine, I don't want to go-on about it in another thread. Most of you are happy with what he did, I'm not. :good

[brown bomber]

He NEVER defended against anyone who had never fought at the weight.

Otis Grant operrated at MIDDLEWEIGHT. Good argument up until then.

[SleazeNation]

Otis Grant operrated at MIDDLEWEIGHT. Good argument up until then.
:deal Good spot, 1 out of 14 then.

[brown bomber]

:deal Good spot, 1 out of 14 then. Quite a significant one though Sleaze, Otis wasn't really held in particually high regard and was a non-puncher. Strange match to make really. IMO Calzaghe was happy making WBO defences against average fighters and Jones was happy collecting belts of mediocre champions and defending against mediocre fighters. Both were at fault for the fight not happening, but the sport was very different back then. A lot of it has to do with De La Hoya and Arum chasing the best fighters in each division to make millions on PPV. Before Oscar started beating everyone, champions were quite happy to sit on the titles defending against randoms- while never pursuing the best guys. Look at the welterweights circa 2000. Trinidad 32-0 (26ko's), Quartey 33-0 (28ko's) and Whitiker 38-1-1 (16ko's) all in the same division, all in the top ten p4p and all avoiding each other defending against the likes of Oba Carr. Boxing has changed a lot- thank god... Thank Oscar and UFC for that.

[Beatboxer]

Quite a significant one though Sleaze, Otis wasn't really held in particually high regard and was a non-puncher. Strange match to make really. IMO Calzaghe was happy making WBO defences against average fighters and Jones was happy collecting belts of mediocre champions and defending against mediocre fighters. Both were at fault for the fight not happening, but the sport was very different back then. A lot of it has to do with De La Hoya and Arum chasing the best fighters in each division to make millions on PPV. Before Oscar started beating everyone, champions were quite happy to sit on the titles defending against randoms- while never pursuing the best guys. Look at the welterweights circa 2000. Trinidad 32-0 (26ko's), Quartey 33-0 (28ko's) and Whitiker 38-1-1 (16ko's) all in the same division, all in the top ten p4p and all avoiding each other defending against the likes of Oba Carr. Boxing has changed a lot- thank god... Thank Oscar and UFC for that.

Good post Jeff, although I obviously don't fully agree with the assertion that all Calzaghe did was beat WBO bums. To me, his career only really stagnated from 2003 to 2005 where he had a whole host of problems relating to hand injuries divorce etc. Now this does not fully excuse the poor choice of opponent during this time span, but nonsensical haters that refuse to take into account the fact that he has beaten solid competition in the early years, the fact that he has taken on and beaten good competition from 2006 and the fact that the big fights that eluded from 2001 to 2006, that this wasn't totally his fault now they annoy me.

[brown bomber]

Good post Jeff, although I obviously don't fully agree with the assertion that all Calzaghe did was beat WBO bums. To me, his career only really stagnated from 2003 to 2005 where he had a whole host of problems relating to hand injuries divorce etc. Now this does not fully excuse the poor choice of opponent during this time span, but nonsensical haters that refuse to take into account the fact that he has beaten solid competition in the early years, the fact that he has taken on and beaten good competition from 2006 and the fact that the big fights that eluded from 2001 to 2006, that this wasn't totally his fault now they annoy me. Once again your probably right- He did beat some good fighters but never any elite guys but as you say that may have been through no fault of his own.

[Fat Joe]

Did Ryan Rhodes fight Otis Grant?

[Beatboxer]

Once again your probably right- He did beat some good fighters but never any elite guys but as you say that may have been through no fault of his own.

Ohh don't get me wrong mate ive held him to task before. I have criticised him in particular for not at least challenging DM when it was clear that Ottke was not going to play ball. That match for many reasons I believe could have been made. That it wasn't even mooted was very disappointing.

The point is that Calzaghe could have done more to get certain fights. But to ignore the rest of his resume and what he has done since 2006 as well as the numerous factors surrounding the proposed bouts with Hopkins and Ottke is simply ridiculous. The truth is somewhere inbetween, and personally im satisfied with how his career has went since 2006. What I can't stand is nonsensical haters who pose the weakest arguments and don't appear to have a clue about the circumstances surrounding JC's failure to fight certain names.

You brought up circumstances that ive never factored into my argumenet. You are totally right: in the early part of this decade the boxing culture seemed to be that great fighters rarely if ever fought each other. Look at DM and RJJ, observe Trinidad, Quartey etc. The big fights have been pushed far harder by promoters in recent years and I do believe the competition from UFC is to thank for that.

[SleazeNation]

Ohh don't get me wrong mate ive held him to task before. I have criticised him in particular for not at least challenging DM when it was clear that Ottke was not going to play ball. That match for many reasons I believe could have been made. That it wasn't even mooted was very disappointing.

The point is that Calzaghe could have done more to get certain fights. But to ignore the rest of his resume and what he has done since 2006 as well as the numerous factors surrounding the proposed bouts with Hopkins and Ottke is simply ridiculous. The truth is somewhere inbetween, and personally im satisfied with how his career has went since 2006. What I can't stand is nonsensical haters who pose the weakest arguments and don't appear to have a clue about the circumstances surrounding JC's failure to fight certain names.

You brought up circumstances that ive never factored into my argumenet. You are totally right: in the early part of this decade the boxing culture seemed to be that great fighters rarely if ever fought each other. Look at DM and RJJ, observe Trinidad, Quartey etc. The big fights have been pushed far harder by promoters in recent years and I do believe the competition from UFC is to thank for that.
Maybe in terms of American boxing. But I thank Ricky Hatton, and leaving ******, for the state of British boxing now.

[brown bomber]

Did Ryan Rhodes fight Otis Grant? Yes good fight... Otis Schooled him.

[brown bomber]

Maybe in terms of American boxing. But I thank Ricky Hatton, and leaving ******, for the state of British boxing now.Hatton, Calzaghe and Haye have being pioneers and all deserve real credit for their efforts. Hamed tried and failed. These guys have stepped up to the plate a suceeded.

[Fat Joe]

Yes good fight... Otis Schooled him.

Old manned him out of it I remember Brendan Ingle saying. I was young and only just started watching boxing and with all the propoganda on Sky I thought Rhodes was gonna be a superstar because he was Naz's mate and they trained and sparred together:rofl

[brown bomber]

Old manned him out of it I remember Brendan Ingle saying. I was young and only just started watching boxing and with all the propoganda on Sky I thought Rhodes was gonna be a superstar because he was Naz's mate and they trained and sparred together:rofl It was quality and Ryan emerged with a lot of credit he was considered a can't miss and then Jason Mathews lowered the boom.