Haye beats Mormeck, but...

[Amsterdam]

I can't see him having any serious success at HW, save for a few impressive wins over guys like Calvin Brock, Rahman and perhaps Arreola/Chambers level opponents.

For sure he'll be the best British HW, but for some to predict that he's going to be a top 5 HW in the division is a bit far fetched to me considering that I could never see him defeating the majority of the top 10, save for Oleg Maskaev, who's soon to drop out of the top 10.

Even a guy like Tony Thompson is going to give Haye severe problems as a 250 pound man with the natural punching power that comes along with that kind of size.

It's too bad that he has to drain to make CW, because I feel aside from strength issue's from draining, that it would be his best division as he has a good size, speed and power over the division.

For sure he beats Mormeck, that guy is ripe for the picking and can't handle Haye's power.

I like David Haye, this is just what I feel his chances are at HW and I'd feel the same even if he had a cast iron jaw, the size issue for even some the moderate HW's advantage is just too great and the Bonin win is decieving in the fact that Bonin was tailor made for any quick guy to destroy, even though Fraudley Harrison had issue's in removing him, but that's no surprise because Fraudley was garbage.

Maybe Haye could smoke Mormeck and Bell both, then if it's at all possible, get Enzo in there with him for an easy fight and then move to HW under the right fight projection plan.:think

[achillesthegreat]

I'd say someone beating Brock, Rahman, Arreola and Chambers is having quite impressive success. That makes him a top5 contender who would get a shot at the world title.

Haye can handle big men. Watch him v Johnasson and Gurov. Watch his sparring on youtube as he is facing what looks like a 6'5 250 pound man.

Once/ if he sparks Mormeck he needs to go north, he has been struggling with the weight for too long. I think he can be a top ten player. Besting the Wlads, Vitalis etc of this world is a tall order but I think he has a chance.

Believe it or not he is STILL improving his game via skill, experience etc

[Smith]

Bollocks, he'll unify the Heavies.

Me, im not blinkered, im a physchic, trust me

[madpup]

I'd say someone beating Brock, Rahman, Arreola and Chambers is having quite impressive success. That makes him a top5 contender who would get a shot at the world title.

Haye can handle big men. Watch him v Johnasson and Gurov. Watch his sparring on youtube as he is facing what looks like a 6'5 250 pound man.

Once/ if he sparks Mormeck he needs to go north, he has been struggling with the weight for too long. I think he can be a top ten player. Besting the Wlads, Vitalis etc of this world is a tall order but I think he has a chance.

Believe it or not he is STILL improving his game via skill, experience etc
Good post, good to see some rational fans on this board.
I too like Haye, I think he will be a top 5 heavy, but to see him beating the top guys in the division is a bit of a stretch. It is hard to imagine seeing him handle Vlad's power and I think Chagaev would be too tough and durable for him. But it will be good to see him in the HW division, he will definitelly bring some excitement to it, save for the delusional fanbase that has already formed.

[Amsterdam]

I'd say someone beating Brock, Rahman, Arreola and Chambers is having quite impressive success. That makes him a top5 contender who would get a shot at the world title.

Haye can handle big men. Watch him v Johnasson and Gurov. Watch his sparring on youtube as he is facing what looks like a 6'5 250 pound man.

Once/ if he sparks Mormeck he needs to go north, he has been struggling with the weight for too long. I think he can be a top ten player. Besting the Wlads, Vitalis etc of this world is a tall order but I think he has a chance.

Believe it or not he is STILL improving his game via skill, experience etc

That's success, but it's not title level success because none of those guys will be holding a belt at anytime in the future due to their flaws, and that's what I mean by "major success". Winning a title and having the oppurtunity to get the serious big money fights with other HW belt holders, spots on HBO etc. that come with it.

Brock's kind of dropped off and he doesn't take a great shot, which is why Haye KO's him.

Rahman is cooked it seems... easy pickings at this point.

Arreola is tailor made for Haye, very easy.

Chambers hasn't any size to do anything at HW in my opinion, Haye KO's him.

For example, I can't see Haye beating Chagaev, Ibragimov and as much as I don't like Valuev, I think the size there gives Valuev an easy victory...

And I consider all 3 of those guys to be under Peter and both Klit's, so there is 5 guys already that he can't beat in my opinion.

Mormeck will be an easy fight, but he can spark out Bell too while he's at it and take out the top 2 ranked guys before jumping back up...

[sandwichsurgeon]

Haye vs Povetkin would be a FOTY candidate if it came off.

[Amsterdam]

Haye vs Povetkin would be a FOTY candidate if it came off.

You know, I'd have to think on that one.:think

[achillesthegreat]

That's success, but it's not title level success because none of those guys will be holding a belt at anytime in the future due to their flaws, and that's what I mean by "major success". Winning a title and having the oppurtunity to get the serious big money fights with other HW belt holders, spots on HBO etc. that come with it.

Brock's kind of dropped off and he doesn't take a great shot, which is why Haye KO's him.

Rahman is cooked it seems... easy pickings at this point.

Arreola is tailor made for Haye, very easy.

Chambers hasn't any size to do anything at HW in my opinion, Haye KO's him.

For example, I can't see Haye beating Chagaev, Ibragimov and as much as I don't like Valuev, I think the size there gives Valuev an easy victory...

And I consider all 3 of those guys to be under Peter and both Klit's, so there is 5 guys already that he can't beat in my opinion.

Mormeck will be an easy fight, but he can spark out Bell too while he's at it and take out the top 2 ranked guys before jumping back up...
Well, it would get him the title shot and Haye is one punch away from all four belts!

Whether he conquers is a whole other ball game but he does have the ability.

I don't believe any one has a sure bet on Haye. Chagaev and Ibrag aren't that good. Valuev is slow and Haye can outbox him while butchering his body.

Peter, Klits and maybe one or two others are the real worry.

Mormeck will be a good fight but I think Haye can take it.

I don't want to see Haye stick around. He says max he'll stay for one defence but he should risk it no further. He has nothing left to achieve after Mormeck. He has been struggling to make weight for too long.

[Amsterdam]

I'm not even concerned about Mormeck, he's ripe for the picking at age 34 with stamina problems and despite most considering him a murderous hitter, I find his power to be very average and his KO ratio and comparable opposition reflects this.

I don't think Mormeck can put Haye away, but Haye can definitley put Mormeck away with little issue, considering that Mormeck is vulnerable after he loses stamina.

Bell's another dodgy jawed fighter who couldn't handle Haye's best.

But while Chag and Ibrag aren't anything really impressive, they are much bigger and therefore pack a much bigger punch and they could put Haye away where Mormeck cannot...

Maybe Chag more so than Ibrag.:think

Valuev's just too big, and while I've never considered him anything more than a novelty sell, the size would come into play here.

[rooq]

Well, it would get him the title shot and Haye is one punch away from all four belts!

Whether he conquers is a whole other ball game but he does have the ability.

I don't believe any one has a sure bet on Haye. Chagaev and Ibrag aren't that good. Valuev is slow and Haye can outbox him while butchering his body.

Peter, Klits and maybe one or two others are the real worry.

Mormeck will be a good fight but I think Haye can take it.

I don't want to see Haye stick around. He says max he'll stay for one defence but he should risk it no further. He has nothing left to achieve after Mormeck. He has been struggling to make weight for too long.

i can see haye having success against chagaev although he is one of the better hw boxers out there. i'd worry about seeing him in with wlad and peters, but haye will want to face the best - i don't see him ducking anyone even if he gets ktfo. and i guess none of the hw's out there have an invincible chin.

[achillesthegreat]

I'm not even concerned about Mormeck, he's ripe for the picking at age 34 with stamina problems and despite most considering him a murderous hitter, I find his power to be very average and his KO ratio and comparable opposition reflects this.

I don't think Mormeck can put Haye away, but Haye can definitley put Mormeck away with little issue, considering that Mormeck is vulnerable after he loses stamina.

Bell's another dodgy jawed fighter who couldn't handle Haye's best.

But while Chag and Ibrag aren't anything really impressive, they are much bigger and therefore pack a much bigger punch and they could put Haye away where Mormeck cannot...

Maybe Chag more so than Ibrag.:think

Valuev's just too big, and while I've never considered him anything more than a novelty sell, the size would come into play here.
I agree with what you say on Mormeck.

Chag and Ibrag aren't that big. Haye is 6'3, 81" reach and looking mean at 215 pounds. Thats Muhammad Alis body for you right there!

You can't watch what Valuev v Chagaev and Ruiz and not think Haye could just pick him the fuck apart.

[rooq]

I agree with what you say on Mormeck.

Chag and Ibrag aren't that big. Haye is 6'3, 81" reach and looking mean at 215 pounds. Thats Muhammad Alis body for you right there!

You can't watch what Valuev v Chagaev and Ruiz and not think Haye could just pick him the fuck apart.

according to boxrec hayes is 6" bigger than chags. ah hem. :oops:

[achillesthegreat]

i can see haye having success against chagaev although he is one of the better hw boxers out there. i'd worry about seeing him in with wlad and peters, but haye will want to face the best - i don't see him ducking anyone even if he gets ktfo. and i guess none of the hw's out there have an invincible chin.
Wlad, Peter and Vitali are worries. If he gets past a few contenders I'd say he could beat em all. Wlad and Vitali are going to have all the belts soon. Peter looks like the general number 1 threat to both, though I think both beat him.

Haye has everything. I just want to find out that he can take the shots and know how to ride the waves against elite fighters.

[achillesthegreat]

according to boxrec hayes is 6" bigger than chags. ah hem. :oops:
Chagaevs not 5'9 is he? I thought he was 6footish!

[rooq]

Chagaevs not 5'9 is he? I thought he was 6footish!

lol..i meant his reach. according to boxrec he only a 74" one

[Amsterdam]

Wlad, Peter and Vitali are worries. If he gets past a few contenders I'd say he could beat em all. Wlad and Vitali are going to have all the belts soon. Peter looks like the general number 1 threat to both, though I think both beat him.

Haye has everything. I just want to find out that he can take the shots and know how to ride the waves against elite fighters.

I'm willing to accept that the TKO loss was a fluke incident, perhaps even by way of weight draining or other factors, which is why I wish he could make CW effectively, because against the better opposition he HAS shown better punch resistance than the initial doubts would come from the TKO loss to that journeyman.

But HW is a different story. However, I'd say he'd be okay if he has something like a Calvin Brock chin at HW(which is glass in my opinion, but not "china"), it can hold up with a proper defence, giving enough time for Haye to brutalise the adversity before getting sparked out.

Obviously he's not going to have the kind of jaw that we'd like, I hope he does very well, Haye is a fighter that is good for boxing from a variety of factors.

The best part about Haye/Mormeck is that we will get a good price on Haye for betting, Mormeck will be the favourite without a doubt.:D

[Amsterdam]

Chagaevs not 5'9 is he? I thought he was 6footish!

Chagaev has a very fast, well timed straight left that could put Haye in a world of trouble though.:think

[jc]

I think he will win the Cruiser title aswel and I also feel he has as good a chance as any to wina version of the heavyweight title - the division really is that bad. If he has the size, power or chin to unify and dominate is yet to be seen...

[madpup]

Chagaev is no Ali, but is one tough cookie, has good stamina and packs a hell of a punch. I can see him weathering the early storm and wear Haye down for a late round KO.

Klitschko will decimate him I think, his defence is not that good to withstand Wlad's offensive arsenal.

Ibragimov/Haye would be interesting.

I am not convinced by Peter, I think he is too crude to beat Haye.

[achillesthegreat]

lol..i meant his reach. according to boxrec he only a 74" one
Haye has an impressive reach, as did Ali. Hayes speed and reach will allow him to outbox Chagaev and Valuev.

[achillesthegreat]

Chagaev has a very fast, well timed straight left that could put Haye in a world of trouble though.:think
For every punch a fighter has, Haye has a punch just as devastating. Dare I say it, that includes the likes of Peter and Wlad.

[achillesthegreat]

I'm willing to accept that the TKO loss was a fluke incident, perhaps even by way of weight draining or other factors, which is why I wish he could make CW effectively, because against the better opposition he HAS shown better punch resistance than the initial doubts would come from the TKO loss to that journeyman.

But HW is a different story. However, I'd say he'd be okay if he has something like a Calvin Brock chin at HW(which is glass in my opinion, but not "china"), it can hold up with a proper defence, giving enough time for Haye to brutalise the adversity before getting sparked out.

Obviously he's not going to have the kind of jaw that we'd like, I hope he does very well, Haye is a fighter that is good for boxing from a variety of factors.

The best part about Haye/Mormeck is that we will get a good price on Haye for betting, Mormeck will be the favourite without a doubt.:D
??? Carl Thompson a journeyman? Your classification of a journeyman is awful.

Haye pre Thompson was a different animal. EVERYONE who supported said he was talented but he would shoot his load in abou 2 or 3 rounds and give EVERYONE a chance to ko him after that. Plus he was wide open and thus gave everyone a punchers chance. Mock and Thompson exposed this in him. He worked ALOT on pacing himself, maintaining a good workrate and his defence has come on light years. Thus he eradicated these two things.

Haye blitzed Thompson, about three rounds later he was DONE!

Haye at CW isn't happy with his reflexes. He said so after the Fragomeni fight. At HW he says he is stronger, fitter and sharper. From the way he looks, I agree. He fought a bigger version of Fragomeni and blitzed him.

Calvin Brock does not have a glass chin. He has taken good shots from guys like McCline, Wlad, Etienne etc It is breakable but not glass. Brock has some tools too. He was making Wlad look real bad.

Haye is GREAT for boxing. He has it all. A shame he doesn't get more coverage. People need to remember he has only TWENTY fights!

I want to attend the Haye fight and maybe put a bet on him depending on the odds. HAye-Mormeck has me HYPED!