Pavlik - Premature Praise?

[Fat Joe]

I've only seen Pavlik in his last 3 fights and I am impressed with the quality he has shown - power, workrate, stamina, grit and underrated hand speed.

However, now that a fight against Calzaghe is being touted it shocks me how easily Pavlik has earned his respect as opposed to Calzaghe.

Even after Saturday some still won't give Calzaghe credit. In comparison Pavlik has made just 1 defence and IMO was being outboxed against JT until JT slowed down.

How has he gained respect so easily from the boxing fraternity as opposed to Calzaghe?

Is it simply a case of him being American?

[ghostlybadge]

yep

[MrMagic]

He's throwing powerpunches full stop, he's exciting and got a decent chin by the loooks of it. I really do believe he is legit :good

[Samurai]

I don't think so. He's young, hard-hitting, exciting and wants to take on anyone. As for Joe, I wouldn't pay much attention to how much praise he gets; Everytime he wins, he gets critized.

[ralphc]

Taylor made some minor improvements to his style and the consequences were Pavlik did not look so dominant. A few more improvements and Taylor might have won the fight. People who are singing praises to Pavlik really don't know what they are talking about.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Pavlik is more consistent then Calzaghe as Joe looks great in one fight:good then like shit in the next:!:

[Fat Joe]

Taylor made some minor improvements to his style and the consequences were Pavlik did not look so dominant. A few more improvements and Taylor might have won the fight. People who are singing praises to Pavlik really don't know what they are talking about.

I thought Taylor did win, I was biased towards him as I like his style of fighting more than Pavlik's. When I watched it back and saw the punchstats I had to concede I was wrong. But Taylor was really outboxing him early.

[Thunderlips]

I think some of Joe's critics are frustrated by his lack of power. We like KO's and power punchers in the U.S. more so than speed and skill.

I think thats why MMA is so popular here.

[BigBone]

Well... knocking out Miranda and Taylor as an underdog did him a good thing. He became a major player in boxing in just a few months and the critics never even had time to jump on him, since when the time came, he stepped up in competition and delivered BIG.

Of course being an American - and you have to use Hopkins' argument, that in the US most successful boxers (today) are blacks, Mexican Americans etc - so, as Bernard said, when a 'white boy' comes, the hype is always big. But Pavlik never really needed hype since he’s just destroyed anyone they've put in front on him.

Premature praise? I've always said that he has his limits like every other boxer, so calling him p4p top 5 or even a p4p fighter after one Taylor fight was premature, stating that he would destroy everyone or opening Kelly vs. Ray Robinson threads is just stupidity. But even if the Taylor rematch was close, instead of 'just' throwing, he boxed pretty well, so he's definitely a top10 p4p fighter today.

But as I've said before, I'd pick a 100% Winky, Kessler and Hopkins against Kelly and I'd put serious money on Calzaghe if the 2 would meet as he's got serious problems in defense and not everyone lets himself abusing. He showed the signs of the lack of the amateur experience when he went down in the 1st Taylor fight. No head or upper body movement, bad body language in tough situations, lack of good defensive techniques, can't fight backwards, easy to counter, can't really shine if you've got a good defense enough not to let him pressure and dominate you, take away his jab, and he's in unknown territory, deep water etc. Even a guy like Abraham has a decent chance pulling off a win. But we are talking about Calzaghes, Winkys, Kesslers, the very elite of these divisions and there’s nothing to be ashamed of losing to them.

So premature praise? I don't think so... he's just a very nice two-fisted killer, easy to like and he's not going to lose ONE true fan if loses a fight or two in the next couple of years. That's a lot more than the average US fighter can ask.

[Bodysnatcher]

The fact he's a mid-west American white boy does have something to with the love he gets, sure.

But Pavlik also knocks people out and Americans love a KO artist.

I believe Taylor was a P4P fighter when Pavlik stopped him?

Calzaghe has only just now beat a P4P fighter.

Calzaghe lost his stoppage power a few years ago and that's a big reason why so many Americans don't warm to him...but being from `Yurp` doesn't help, no.

[Cobbler]

he's definitely a top10 p4p fighter today.


I'd pick a 100% Winky, Kessler and Hopkins against Kelly and I'd put serious money on Calzaghe if the 2 would meet

he's got serious problems in defense and not everyone lets himself abusing.....No head or upper body movement, bad body language in tough situations, lack of good defensive techniques, can't fight backwards, easy to counter, can't really shine if you've got a good defense enough not to let him pressure and dominate you, take away his jab or throw a better one is hell for him

Even a guy like Abraham has a decent chance pulling off a win

What?

[JETSKI]

I've only seen Pavlik in his last 3 fights and I am impressed with the quality he has shown - power, workrate, stamina, grit and underrated hand speed.

However, now that a fight against Calzaghe is being touted it shocks me how easily Pavlik has earned his respect as opposed to Calzaghe.

Even after Saturday some still won't give Calzaghe credit. In comparison Pavlik has made just 1 defence and IMO was being outboxed against JT until JT slowed down.

How has he gained respect so easily from the boxing fraternity as opposed to Calzaghe?

Is it simply a case of him being American?

What are you talking about? Joe was having fits with B Hop until HE slowed down.

Respect? Maybe its got something to do with Kelly, who punches like a man, vs Joe who punches like a girl.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Also Pavlik is on a much faster track then Calzaghe has been in his career. It took Calzaghe 15 years to fight 4 top guys and most of opponents have been med level or weak. While Pavlik is fighting often with top guys or med level guys at a fast pace in the next two years Pavlik most likely will fight Abraham, Wright, Kessler, and Calzaghe as will med level guys like Lockett ,Rubio, Duddy in between the big fights:deal

[Hermit]

In comparison Pavlik has made just 1 defence and IMO was being outboxed against JT until JT slowed down.
That wasn't even a defense. It was catch weight crap insisted on by Taylor. As for being white? How much does a Tiger Woods lose from not being white? This will remain an issue with some, but overall, I don't think it is as big a factor as others. How many whites still backed Bhop after his "white boy" remark?

Premature? Ask Boo, Piped and Jestski. They would say it is over due. ;)

[Fat Joe]

What are you talking about? Joe was having fits with B Hop until HE slowed down.

Respect? Maybe its got something to do with Kelly, who punches like a man, vs Joe who punches like a girl.

At a similar stage of his career he put Eubank down twice, I'm not saying Pavlik isn't the real deal, he obviously is, but he's only made one defence, and he had to really work in that.

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Pavlik is a very good fighter at this point only time tell if is a great fighter Lockett, Rubio, Duddy, and Abraham are all big punchers so we get see if Pavlik has a great chin or not.:hat

[CocoJumbo]

Come on premature praise? JT was undefeated and had never been knocked out, Pavlik knocked him out BAD. He showed to everyone in that first fight that he had heart, good chin, and GOOD defense. Why does everyone sleep on pavlik's defense? Did you see how many times he parried JT jabs and other punches? The guy is a machine who does not stop coming forward.. He deserves all the praise in the world

[tpuz]

He outboxed Jermain in the 2nd fight and probably would have knocked him out if he didn't hurt his right hand in the 7th round. Maybe it's a good thing he went the distance and beat a P4P guy by UD to show his critics that he has skills.
BigBone - he does have an extensive amature career, almost 100 fights, amature championships, olympic trials......

[Cobbler]

Also Pavlik is on a much faster track then Calzaghe has been in his career.

:patsch

In his 23rd fight Calzaghe fought Eubank for a World title. Pavlik handed Ross Thompson his 7th defeat in 10 fights in an 8 rounder.

In his 26th fight Calzaghe fought Robin Reid and Pavlik knocked out a guy with a 12-17 record.

Calzaghe fought Sheika and Woodhall about the same time comparitvely Pavlik was fighting Zertuche.

Speculating as to what Pavlik may or may do in the next couple of years is pointless. As of now his most likely mooted opponents are Lockett (we know about), Duddy, Abraham. That list doesn't exactly compare favourably with even the less illustrious years of Calzaghe's career.

[sthomas]

I'm a big fan of both of these guys. Pavlik's praise is warranted, and Calzaghe's lack of praise is unwarranted. These guys are both great fighters. If the fully prime Calz. who fought Lacy were to fight Pav. in his next fight, I'd favor Calz. by a comfortable U.D. or possibly TKO. As it stands now, Joe is slightly on the wane and Pav. is about as close to peak as he will ever be, but for his abilities to adjust to any situation thrown in front of him I'd still pick Calz. by a close decision. Pav. would have to KO Joe for the win and that's not an unlikely scenario.


Question for you all. If Calz. hands had remained healthy thoughout his career, where would he be now?????

[Flintman]

In his 23rd fight Calzaghe fought Eubank for a World title. Pavlik handed Ross Thompson his 7th defeat in 10 fights in an 8 rounder.
Calzaghe was 25 in his 23rd fight.

Pavlik was only 22 in his 23rd fight.

Calzaghe didn't fight a worthy fighter until he was 36 and then he picked someone who was 43 years old.

If Calzaghe steps up and dares to fight Pavlik then Joe gets KOed COLD.

[Fat Joe]

Calzaghe didn't fight a worthy fighter until he was 36

:patsch

[Cobbler]

Calzaghe didn't fight a worthy fighter until he was 36


This makes your other opinions irrelevant. Unlucky.

[Fat Joe]

I'm a big fan of both of these guys. Pavlik's praise is warranted, and Calzaghe's lack of praise is unwarranted.


:clap:

[TFFP]

Calzaghe was 25 in his 23rd fight.

Pavlik was only 22 in his 23rd fight.

Calzaghe didn't fight a worthy fighter until he was 36 and then he picked someone who was 43 years old.

If Calzaghe steps up and dares to fight Pavlik then Joe gets KOed COLD.
:patsch

Imbecile.

[Canadianfan]

You know its not the fact that Pavlik gets credit. Pavlik deserves the credit, he beat the man who beat the man. The problem is Joe will never get credit. Joe could beat everyone in the world, and they'll fall back on well Joe slaps like a little girl. Bottom line Pavlik deserves the praise he gets. Joe doesn't deserve the criticism, but he'll always get it, cause he can't knock guys out now, but he wins fights because he is the type of guy to find a way. I don't know why people can't respect that!

[marting]

Premature?

I smell an agenda.

[jc]

Some of Pavlikes praise in warranted he has gone onto win the linear 160 title, while remaining undefeated and beating good oponents in good style.

However big punchers tend to have more followers than the most skilled boxer, therefore you get alot of meanigless empty praise throown at Kelly when really he has only just started his championship reign. These same people who are in love with Pavliks right hand are the same people who will dismiss him as a chinny one dimensional banger if he were ever to be found out by a superior techinician.

Pavlik is the best middleweight in the World, but he is beatable.

[MasterFlo]

Oh God, he beats Zertuche and he's under rated then he beats Miranda and Taylor(twice, once even outboxing him) then he's overrated. This board is a joke. Kelly has a great fundementals, is very powerful, he does not left oppurtunities slip away, he has a solid chin, he knows how to survive and he's exciting. Only downside seems to be that he only works on one level, meaning his gameplan is always to back you up and hit you with straight shots, then again it's always worked.

[saul_ir34]

He is the great white hope. maybe hype, time will tell.
He is a white american of course hes gonna get alot of praise.
IMO he has only beaten one good fighter in Taylor. Miranda is like Arturo Gatti. Exciting but not great. Zertuche. please he was and is a nobody.

[booradley]

I'll start by stating that I am often in the minority when it comes to Kelly Pavlik, but even a dead fish can float along with the current, so I don't mind swimming against the tide of popular opinion. I first took note of Pavlik in July of 2006 when he knocked out Bronco McKart. NOBODY knocks out "Superman," and yet there it was; right before my eyes in living color! I can tell you the exact moment when I became a Pavlik fan. It happened when Bronco went down from a lead right to the body in the 5th round. Again, NOBODY puts Bronco Mckart DOWN with a single body shot, and yet, here's this skinny kid from Ohio doing the impossible! After that fight I predicted that Kelly would KO Taylor in 8 rounds. I was off by one; he got him in 7.

I also knew that Pavlik would KO Zertuche, even though Hose' is double tough and had never been stopped. Pavlik ruined him.

The majority of posters here picked Miranda over Pavlik. Merchant scoffed when Kelly said he would back Miranda up. I picked Pavlik to KO Miranda with relative ease. Edison never had a chance, or won a single round.

A good 30% of the posters here picked Taylor to outbox Pavlik in the rematch. I was wrong in my analysis because I thought we would see a slightly shorter re-run of the 1st fight. With injuries to both hands Pavlik adapted to the much improved Taylor, and out boxed him; 116-112.

If Pavlik/Calzaghe ever happens, Pavlik will beat Joe half to death. All the shoe shining and pitty-patting in the world will not by Joe so much as a blink from Pavlik. Everytime he squares up and start slapping, Kelly will shoot straight shots up the middle and score big. When Joe tries to go to the body with his left, he will lay his head way over to the left like he always does, and Pav will clobber the shit out of him with left hooks. Over the first 6 rounds Pavlik will bust Calzaghe up like no one else ever has, by round 7 Joe will be very tenative and even timid from eating straight rights and left hooks along with lead rights to the body. Pavlik will own the ring in the 8th and 9th rounds, and stop Joe inside 10.

However, this fight will never happen. After 7 months of calling him out Joe did not want to talk about Pavlik Saturday night. After he blows Lockett out in June Joe will never mention Pavlik again.

All the Accolades Pavlik gets, he deserves.

[pipe wrenched]

I'll start by stating that I am often in the minority when it comes to Kelly Pavlik, but even a dead fish can float along with the current, so I don't mind swimming against the tide of popular opinion. I first took note of Pavlik in July of 2006 when he knocked out Bronco McKart. NOBODY knocks out "Superman," and yet there it was; right before my eyes in living color! I can tell you the exact moment when I became a Pavlik fan. It happened when Bronco went down from a lead right to the body in the 5th round. Again, NOBODY puts Bronco Mckart DOWN with a single body shot, and yet, here's this skinny kid from Ohio doing the impossible! After that fight I predicted that Kelly would KO Taylor in 8 rounds. I was off by one; he got him in 7.

I also knew that Pavlik would KO Zertuche, even though Hose' is double tough and had never been stopped. Pavlik ruined him.

The majority of posters here picked Miranda over Pavlik. Merchant scoffed when Kelly said he would back Miranda up. I picked Pavlik to KO Miranda with relative ease. Edison never had a chance, or won a single round.

A good 30% of the posters here picked Taylor to outbox Pavlik in the rematch. I was wrong in my analysis because I thought we would see a slightly shorter re-run of the 1st fight. With injuries to both hands Pavlik adapted to the much improved Taylor, and out boxed him; 116-112.

If Pavlik/Calzaghe ever happens, Pavlik will beat Joe half to death. All the shoe shining and pitty-patting in the world will not by Joe so much as a blink from Pavlik. Everytime he squares up and start slapping, Kelly will shoot straight shots up the middle and score big. When Joe tries to go to the body with his left, he will lay his head way over to the left like he always does, and Pav will clobber the shit out of him with left hooks. Over the first 6 rounds Pavlik will bust Calzaghe up like no one else ever has, by round 7 Joe will be very tenative and even timid from eating straight rights and left hooks along with lead rights to the body. Pavlik will own the ring in the 8th and 9th rounds, and stop Joe inside 10.

However, this fight will never happen. After 7 months of calling him out Joe did not want to talk about Pavlik Saturday night. After he blows Lockett out in June Joe will never mention Pavlik again.

All the Accolades Pavlik gets, he deserves.

Speaker of the House has spoken..:deal

[JETSKI]

I'll start by stating that I am often in the minority when it comes to Kelly Pavlik, but even a dead fish can float along with the current, so I don't mind swimming against the tide of popular opinion. I first took note of Pavlik in July of 2006 when he knocked out Bronco McKart. NOBODY knocks out "Superman," and yet there it was; right before my eyes in living color! I can tell you the exact moment when I became a Pavlik fan. It happened when Bronco went down from a lead right to the body in the 5th round. Again, NOBODY puts Bronco Mckart DOWN with a single body shot, and yet, here's this skinny kid from Ohio doing the impossible! After that fight I predicted that Kelly would KO Taylor in 8 rounds. I was off by one; he got him in 7.

I also knew that Pavlik would KO Zertuche, even though Hose' is double tough and had never been stopped. Pavlik ruined him.

The majority of posters here picked Miranda over Pavlik. Merchant scoffed when Kelly said he would back Miranda up. I picked Pavlik to KO Miranda with relative ease. Edison never had a chance, or won a single round.

A good 30% of the posters here picked Taylor to outbox Pavlik in the rematch. I was wrong in my analysis because I thought we would see a slightly shorter re-run of the 1st fight. With injuries to both hands Pavlik adapted to the much improved Taylor, and out boxed him; 116-112.

If Pavlik/Calzaghe ever happens, Pavlik will beat Joe half to death. All the shoe shining and pitty-patting in the world will not by Joe so much as a blink from Pavlik. Everytime he squares up and start slapping, Kelly will shoot straight shots up the middle and score big. When Joe tries to go to the body with his left, he will lay his head way over to the left like he always does, and Pav will clobber the shit out of him with left hooks. Over the first 6 rounds Pavlik will bust Calzaghe up like no one else ever has, by round 7 Joe will be very tenative and even timid from eating straight rights and left hooks along with lead rights to the body. Pavlik will own the ring in the 8th and 9th rounds, and stop Joe inside 10.

However, this fight will never happen. After 7 months of calling him out Joe did not want to talk about Pavlik Saturday night. After he blows Lockett out in June Joe will never mention Pavlik again.

All the Accolades Pavlik gets, he deserves.


YEP!!!

:ko

BTW, thats Calzaghe on the right...:!:

[CocoJumbo]

I'll start by stating that I am often in the minority when it comes to Kelly Pavlik, but even a dead fish can float along with the current, so I don't mind swimming against the tide of popular opinion. I first took note of Pavlik in July of 2006 when he knocked out Bronco McKart. NOBODY knocks out "Superman," and yet there it was; right before my eyes in living color! I can tell you the exact moment when I became a Pavlik fan. It happened when Bronco went down from a lead right to the body in the 5th round. Again, NOBODY puts Bronco Mckart DOWN with a single body shot, and yet, here's this skinny kid from Ohio doing the impossible! After that fight I predicted that Kelly would KO Taylor in 8 rounds. I was off by one; he got him in 7.

I also knew that Pavlik would KO Zertuche, even though Hose' is double tough and had never been stopped. Pavlik ruined him.

The majority of posters here picked Miranda over Pavlik. Merchant scoffed when Kelly said he would back Miranda up. I picked Pavlik to KO Miranda with relative ease. Edison never had a chance, or won a single round.

A good 30% of the posters here picked Taylor to outbox Pavlik in the rematch. I was wrong in my analysis because I thought we would see a slightly shorter re-run of the 1st fight. With injuries to both hands Pavlik adapted to the much improved Taylor, and out boxed him; 116-112.

If Pavlik/Calzaghe ever happens, Pavlik will beat Joe half to death. All the shoe shining and pitty-patting in the world will not by Joe so much as a blink from Pavlik. Everytime he squares up and start slapping, Kelly will shoot straight shots up the middle and score big. When Joe tries to go to the body with his left, he will lay his head way over to the left like he always does, and Pav will clobber the shit out of him with left hooks. Over the first 6 rounds Pavlik will bust Calzaghe up like no one else ever has, by round 7 Joe will be very tenative and even timid from eating straight rights and left hooks along with lead rights to the body. Pavlik will own the ring in the 8th and 9th rounds, and stop Joe inside 10.

However, this fight will never happen. After 7 months of calling him out Joe did not want to talk about Pavlik Saturday night. After he blows Lockett out in June Joe will never mention Pavlik again.

All the Accolades Pavlik gets, he deserves.


Couldn't have said it better myself

[fitzgeraldz]

Pavlik is crowd pleasing ... i've seen about 7 of his fights so far and he's impressed me every time.

He has a good chin ... he has good power ... good head and shoulder movement ... relentless pressure ... and he has a very high workrate.

I don't think Calzaghe posses the same qualities as Pavlik.

Calzaghe is a smart fighter, very fast hands and footwork, but very bad technique ... and he throws a ton of punches.

I respect both fighters the same but Pavlik just turned 26 and is showing signs of an elite fighter.

He's been a pro for 8 yrs and is getting better every fight ...