Pavlik v. Dawson at 168, if both had 6 months to prepare; who wins?

[Decebal]

Whom are you picking?

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

Pavlik via KO of the year

[Decebal]

Pavlik via KO of the year

Have you checked your answer with the woo before answering?:think

[196osh]

Have you checked your answer with the woo before answering?:think

:rofl

[klion22]

Are you kidding? Dawson goes to sleep.

[Drofrah]

Id pick Pavlik

[Decebal]

This fight is actually very easy to pick.

[196osh]

Bad Chad would leave in a body bag, :yep.

[Decebal]

Bad Chad would leave in a body bag, :yep.

Precisely. Pavlik couldn't lose this one...simply couldn't lose!

Jab would find Dawson all night; his right cross would make a hole in Dawson's head. Dawson's pitter-patter would just tickle Pavlik and if he tried to brawl, Pavlik would stop him even faster.

Yeah, Pavlik doesn't have great angles, footwork, defence or that much speed. But that very good one-two and just slightly less than very good chin would be enough to stop Dawson with.:good

Of couse, styles make fights. Calzaghe would have a harder time against Dawson than against Pavlik. Higher chance of stopping Dawson though...But that doesn't mean Pavlik wouldn't beat Dawson...

[klion22]

Precisely. Pavlik couldn't lose this one...simply couldn't lose!

Jab would find Dawson all night; his right cross would make a hole in Dawson's head. Dawson's pitter-patter would just tickle Pavlik and if he tried to brawl, Pavlik would stop him even faster.

Yeah, Pavlik doesn't have great angles, footwork, defence or that much speed. But that very good one-two and just slightly less than very good chin would be enough to stop Dawson with.:good

Of couse, styles make fights. Calzaghe would have a harder time against Dawson than against Pavlik. Higher chance of stopping Dawson though...But that doesn't mean Pavlik wouldn't beat Dawson...

I wouldn't say Dawson has no chance. If he uses his superior hand speed and just boxes from the outside, he might have a shot. But the chances of him staying away from Pavlik's right hand all night long with his questionable defense is highly unlikely. Pavlik just comes forward and dictates the fight.

[Decebal]

I wouldn't say Dawson has no chance. If he uses his superior hand speed and just boxes from the outside, he might have a shot. But the chances of him staying away from Pavlik's right hand all night long with his questionable defense is highly unlikely. Pavlik just comes forward and dictates the fight.

Dawson has a 20% chance at best...not more, I would say. Pavlik would just come forward and walk through Dawson's pitter patter. Even if Dawson won the first couple of rounds, eventually, the pressure would get to him and he'd break. This is an easy pick. Dawson loses to quite a few people at 168 and 175.

[Pimp C]

Dawson by wide UD. He's better than Pavlik in every department except chin and even power might be disputed at 168.:deal
Dawson would eat an easy target like Kelly for lunch.

[Decebal]

Dawson by wide UD. He's better than Pavlik in every department except chin and even power might be disputed at 168.:deal
Dawson would eat an easy target like Kelly for lunch.

Dawson has more power than Pavlik at 168?:yikes :yikes :yikes

The mark of a nuthugger; caught'cha!:smooch

Dawson doesn't have Pavlik's mental strength and is worse at sticking with the right gameplan...Dawson cannot win this unless Pavlik really screws up.

[Grant1]

Pavlik by Decapatation.

[teke]

Dawson would win

[Decebal]

Dawson would win

:verysad

[Pimp C]

Dawson has more power than Pavlik at 168?:yikes :yikes :yikes

The mark of a nuthugger; caught'cha!:smooch

Dawson doesn't have Pavlik's mental strength and is worse at sticking with the right gameplan...Dawson cannot win this unless Pavlik really screws up.
I can't believe the lack of accurate analysis in this thread. Dawson is much bigger than Kelly he's been fighting at 175 for christ sake he could deal with Kelly's power. What would be the real test is could Kelly deal with Dawson's power. Kelly was hurt badly against Taylor and no way in hell does he come close to Chad's power. People are so quick to look at things like power but overlook things like southapw stance, footwork, speed, jab and accuracy. Kelly's footwork is poor and against someone like Dawson he would have to reset every time in order to get off, not to mention he can't fight backing up which he will be doing alot of against Chad. I see Dawson working from his southpaw stance using an educated workrate, his superior jab and footwork to contol this fight from a distance also when he needs to mix it up I see him getting the best of kelly in the exchanges with his superior combo punching. This fight isn't even close and Kelly gets a boxing lesson from a much more complete fighter and losses by wide UD. This would be the first time he'd be in the ring with someone who is bigger and stronger than he is. and it would give him fits.

[klion22]

Dawson is not much bigger than Pavlik. Dawson was a MW a few years ago just like Pavlik. Pavlik has the build to fill into a LHW easily in a few years. His natural weight right now is probably SMW to begin with. Only because Pavlik stays in great shape can he make MW. So we are talking about two similiar sized guys. And Dawson can easily make 168 right now.

[Decebal]

I can't believe the lack of accurate analysis in this thread. Dawson is much bigger than Kelly he's been fighting at 175 for christ sake he could deal with Kelly's power. What would be the real test is could Kelly deal with Dawson's power. Kelly was hurt badly against Taylor and no way in hell does he come close to Chad's power. People are so quick to look at things like power but overlook things like southapw stance, footwork, speed, jab and accuracy. Kelly's footwork is poor and against someone like Dawson he would have to reset every time in order to get off, not to mention he can't fight backing up which he will be doing alot of against Chad. I see Dawson working from his southpaw stance using an educated workrate, his superior jab and footwork to contol this fight from a distance also when he needs to mix it up I see him getting the best of kelly in the exchanges with his superior combo punching. This fight isn't even close and Kelly gets a boxing lesson in this one and losses by wide UD. This would be the first time he'd be in the ring with someone who is bigger and stronger than he is. and it would give him fits.

Dawson is small. If Pavlik had 6 months to prepare, he'd outweigh Dawson by at least 4-5 pounds on the night. My bet is that it would be more like 10 lbs. He'd be stronger and have more stamina by quite a lot.

Dawson's power?:rofl

Pavlik woud fight backing up against Dawson?:nut

Dawson would be the counterpuncher in this fight, buddy.:deal

This fight isn't even close; you're right there!:yep

Pavlik KO 8.

[booradley]

I I see Dawson working from .

I see Pimp C starting what he thought would be yet another Pavlik bashing thread, and getting his ass handed to him:yep

[Pimp C]

Dawson is not much bigger than Pavlik. Dawson was a MW a few years ago just like Pavlik. Pavlik has the build to fill into a LHW easily in a few years. His natural weight right now is probably SMW to begin with. Only because Pavlik stays in great shape can he make MW. So we are talking about two similiar sized guys. And Dawson can easily make 168 right now.
Dawson is the bigger man. He's taller and has longer arms. Sure Dawson can make 168 but he's the bigger man period.

[drvooh]

I can't believe the lack of accurate analysis in this thread. Dawson is much bigger than Kelly he's been fighting at 175 for christ sake he could deal with Kelly's power. What would be the real test is could Kelly deal with Dawson's power. Kelly was hurt badly against Taylor and no way in hell does he come close to Chad's power. People are so quick to look at things like power but overlook things like southapw stance, footwork, speed, jab and accuracy. Kelly's footwork is poor and against someone like Dawson he would have to reset every time in order to get off, not to mention he can't fight backing up which he will be doing alot of against Chad. I see Dawson working from his southpaw stance using an educated workrate, his superior jab and footwork to contol this fight from a distance also when he needs to mix it up I see him getting the best of kelly in the exchanges with his superior combo punching. This fight isn't even close and Kelly gets a boxing lesson from a much more complete fighter and losses by wide UD. This would be the first time he'd be in the ring with someone who is bigger and stronger than he is. and it would give him fits. I gotta go along with you on this:hi:

[Pimp C]

I see Pimp C starting what he thought would be yet another Pavlik bashing thread, and getting his ass handed to him:yep
I'm not starting a Pavlik bashing thread and I actually like Kelly and picked him to beat Taylor in the rematch. I feel that he'd lose to Dawson and that's not a knock on him in any way. BTW I never get my ass handed to me in any discussion.:deal

[Decebal]

I see Pimp C starting what he thought would be yet another Pavlik bashing thread, and getting his ass handed to him:yep

This is the perfect thread to flush out the Dawson nuthuggers. Watch them all jumping into the net!;)

[Decebal]

Some people will try and be too clever by half and think themselves out of a very easy pick, in this one. Don't! Don't overcomplicate things. No need. This is an easy one.

[Pimp C]

Dawson is small. If Pavlik had 6 months to prepare, he'd outweigh Dawson by at least 4-5 pounds on the night. My bet is that it would be more like 10 lbs. He'd be stronger and have more stamina by quite a lot.

Dawson's power?:rofl

Pavlik woud fight backing up against Dawson?:nut

Dawson would be the counterpuncher in this fight, buddy.:deal

This fight isn't even close; you're right there!:yep

Pavlik KO 8.
What you fail to realize is Kelly has never faced anyone that has the movement of Dawson. Not only does Dawson have good speed and movement but he also has a great workrate and goes to the body well and he will come forward. He would back Kelly up with his punches. Kelly is no Johnson in the chin department so please stop.:D

[klion22]

Dawson is the bigger man. He's taller and has longer arms. Sure Dawson can make 168 but he's the bigger man period.

Well, you said Dawson was much bigger. Now you're just changing it to bigger? They are about the same size. Size won't play a role, that's what i'm saying.

[Decebal]

What you fail to realize is Kelly has never faced anyone that has the movement of Dawson. Not only does Dawson have good speed and movement but he also has a great workrate and goes to the body well and he will come forward. He would back Kelly up with his punches. Kelly is no Johnson in the chin department so please stop.:D

He wouldn't back Kelly up with his punches. Kelly would walk through them and within 2-3 rounds, Dawson would be on th backfoot. Dawson can win the early rounds...but so what? Doesn't win you the fight! After 2-3 rounds, his footwork wouldn't be so good, his movement wouldn't either, his workrate would decrease and he'll start getting owned. Kelly's chin is quite a lot better than the chin that Dawson would crack. Kelly's workrate and pressure would cut Dawson up badly. I can see a corner stoppage before the 6th round in this one...:yep

[Decebal]

Well, you said Dawson was much bigger. Now you're just changing it to bigger? They are about the same size. Size won't play a role, that's what i'm saying.

They're not the same size. Pavlik would be bigger than Dawson if he had 6 months to build up. No doubt at all. Dawson, fighting at 175, is not bigger than a small SMW. Pavlik's size advantage would be significant in this fight. He'd beat Dawson at 160, 168 and 175, especially at 175!:yep

[Pimp C]

Well, you said Dawson was much bigger. Now you're just changing it to bigger? They are about the same size. Size won't play a role, that's what i'm saying.
You're right, I hear you I shouldn't have said much bigger. With that said Dawson is the bigger man.:good

[klion22]

They're not the same size. Pavlik would be bigger than Dawson if he had 6 months to build up. No doubt at all. Dawson, fighting at 175, is not bigger than a small SMW. Pavlik's size advantage would be significant in this fight. He'd beat Dawson at 160, 168 and 175, especially at 175!:yep

I don't know about that. I would say that physically, they are about the same size. They are close enough where size won't play a role if they fought. That's all i'm saying.

[BIGTIMETIMMY]

Have you checked your answer with the woo before answering?:think

You got this round

[Pimp C]

He wouldn't back Kelly up with his punches. Kelly would walk through them and within 2-3 rounds, Dawson would be on th backfoot. Dawson can win the early rounds...but so what? Doesn't win you the fight! After 2-3 rounds, his footwork wouldn't be so good, his movement wouldn't either, his workrate would decrease and he'll start getting owned. Kelly's chin is quite a lot better than the chin that Dawson would crack. Kelly's workrate and pressure would cut Dawson up badly. I can see a corner stoppage before the 6th round in this one...:yep
If Adamek who's a huge LWH and hits harder than Kelly and couldn't stop him then Kelly couldn't either. Kelly is too one-dimensional to beat Dawson who has a much more varied game. He can throw every punch in the book unlike Kelly who mostly has a 1-2. Not to mention kelly's inside boxing game is not great he doesn't go to the body well and he's wide open most of the time. Dawson's accurate punches coming from the southpaw stance will fustrate Kelly. He will control the distance of this fight and the tempo. You're sadly mistaken if you think Kelly will walk through Chad's punches. Hell he didn't even walk through Taylor's. Dawson will land the cleaner more crowd pleasing shots on Kelly and outwork him as well. He wins this fight by wide UD losing no more than 4 rounds in this fight.

[klion22]

Pimp C,

How did you score the Dawson/Johnson fight?

[booradley]

I think Pimp C made a few false assumptions in his analysis.

1) The claim that Dawson would back Pavlik up is probably innaccurate. Pavlik has fought as high as 170 and did not back up. I'll concede that was a long time ago against a no-hoper, but Pavlik is naturally bigger and stronger than he was then. Big middleweights like Taylor and Miranda did not back him up, and at 168 Pavlik will be stronger than he is now. And Kelly is most certainly mentally strong enough to stay in the pocket and fight rather than back up.

2) The claim that Pavlik can't fight backing up is rather silly. There is absolutely no evidence to base that claim on. Nobody has ever backed him up. Damn hard to base an argument on no evidence.

3) The idea that a southpaw stance is an advantage against an enormous right hand is ludicrous. It's a disadvantage both psychologically and physically.

Boo

[Pimp C]

Pimp C,

How did you score the Dawson/Johnson fight?
7-5 Dawson the first time 8-4 the second time

[klion22]

7-5 Dawson the first time 8-4 the second time

Get the fu*k out of here you Dawson nuthugger. :lol:

You will probably score it 9-3 the third time for Dawson.

I had it 7-5 for Johnson and i was being generous.

American judges put way too much empahsis on activity. This fight and Calzaghe are recent examples.

[Fat Joe]

Kessler beats both on the same night

[Fat Joe]

7-5 Dawson the first time

Same here

[Pimp C]

Get the fu*k out of here you Dawson nuthugger. :lol:

You will probably score it 9-3 the third time for Dawson.

I had it 7-5 for Johnson and i was being generous.

American judges put way too much empahsis on activity. This fight and Calzaghe are recent examples.
Not really Dawson controlled the fight with his jab and combo punching. Not to mention when he decided to box he made Johnson look amatuerish. Dawson won that fight clean. People make too much of hurting someone in a fight and thinking that alone should win them the fight but neglect all the work the other guy did. Judges saw right through it and scored the fight accordingly.

[huki]

Dawson would beat Pavlik easily. People picking Pavlik are probably comparing this matchup to Dawson-Johnson, which is wrong. Even at an old age, Johnson has a granite chin and anticipates punches better than Pavlik. Dawson hits much, much harder than Taylor, who nearly stopped Kelly, stunned him many times, and had no trouble finding him every time he decided to throw punches. If Taylor had better stamina he would have beaten Pavlik in the rematch. There is no way Pavlik would be walking through Dawson's punches and at 175 his power, physical strength, and speed would decrease, making him even more predictable and average than he already is.

As unimpressive as Dawson was against Johnson, Pavlik was as unimpressive against Taylor. Imagine Dawson in the ring against Pavlik last February.. he would destroy the guy. Come on.. the main reason Pavlik is rated so highly is because of the division he's in and the physical advantages he has over opponents there. If he was a SMW or a LHW, he would be owned by the B+ or higher level fighters there.

[JETSKI]

Dawson by wide UD. He's better than Pavlik in every department except chin and even power might be disputed at 168.:deal
Dawson would eat an easy target like Kelly for lunch.

Come on...be real. Over twice as many voters for KP. Warms my heart.:smoke

[klion22]

Dawson would beat Pavlik easily. People picking Pavlik are probably comparing this matchup to Dawson-Johnson, which is wrong. Even at an old age, Johnson has a granite chin and anticipates punches better than Pavlik. Dawson hits much, much harder than Taylor, who nearly stopped Kelly, stunned him many times, and had no trouble finding him every time he decided to throw punches. If Taylor had better stamina he would have beaten Pavlik in the rematch. There is no way Pavlik would be walking through Dawson's punches and at 175 his power, physical strength, and speed would decrease, making him even more predictable and average than he already is.

As unimpressive as Dawson was against Johnson, Pavlik was as unimpressive against Taylor. Imagine Dawson in the ring against Pavlik last February.. he would destroy the guy. Come on.. the main reason Pavlik is rated so highly is because of the division he's in and the physical advantages he has over opponents there. If he was a SMW or a LHW, he would be owned by the B+ or higher level fighters there.

Is this a joke?

[JETSKI]

Kessler beats both on the same night

You keep that up & your gonna have to give back my avatar!:yep

[jecxbox]

Dawson by wide UD. He's better than Pavlik in every department except chin and even power might be disputed at 168.:deal
Dawson would eat an easy target like Kelly for lunch.


Dawson would go nighty night!:rofl

[Pimp C]

Dawson would beat Pavlik easily. People picking Pavlik are probably comparing this matchup to Dawson-Johnson, which is wrong. Even at an old age, Johnson has a granite chin and anticipates punches better than Pavlik. Dawson hits much, much harder than Taylor, who nearly stopped Kelly, stunned him many times, and had no trouble finding him every time he decided to throw punches. If Taylor had better stamina he would have beaten Pavlik in the rematch. There is no way Pavlik would be walking through Dawson's punches and at 175 his power, physical strength, and speed would decrease, making him even more predictable and average than he already is.

As unimpressive as Dawson was against Johnson, Pavlik was as unimpressive against Taylor. Imagine Dawson in the ring against Pavlik last February.. he would destroy the guy. Come on.. the main reason Pavlik is rated so highly is because of the division he's in and the physical advantages he has over opponents there. If he was a SMW or a LHW, he would be owned by the B+ or higher level fighters there.
Great post!:clap: That's exactly what I've been saying.

[headhunter]

Dawson outboxes Pavik easily.

[bigeddie27]

Dawson all day. I dont think Kelly is going to land a whole on chad, it would be a very one-sided beatdown. Chad is just too seasoned a fighter for someone like kelly who can be outboxed (see taylor-pavlik 2). Chad is in a whole other league compared to taylor though, and he is a right handed southpaw.

[Fat Joe]

You keep that up & your gonna have to give back my avatar!:yep

I'll keep it for now - I'll replace it with a picture of KP on the floor if he fights Kessler

[Addie]

No need to breakdown this fight in my opinion.

Dawson was badly hurt against Glen Johnson, who is neither as technical or as hard hitting as Kelly Pavlik.

KO Round 8 for the Ghost.

[booradley]

kelly who can be outboxed (see taylor-pavlik 2).

Pavlik was outboxed? Did you happen to notice who won that fight by unanimous decision?

[Samurai]

Dawson for sure

[Fat Joe]

Pavlik was outboxed? Did you happen to notice who won that fight by unanimous decision?

Only because JT slowed down

[Samurai]

Holy shit Pavlik is raping Dawson in the polls. What is this?:think

[Pimp C]

Holy shit Pavlik is raping Dawson in the polls. What is this?:think
Kelly is more popular than Dawson. Polls on ESB are nothing but popularity contests they have little credibility.

[Pimp C]

Dawson would go nighty night!:rofl
Please. Kelly would be the one more likely to be going to sleep in this matchup.:deal

[Pimp C]

Come on...be real. Over twice as many voters for KP. Warms my heart.:smoke
What does that mean.
Speed Dawson
Footwork Dawson
Stamina Even
Chin Kelly
Heart Even
Defense Dawson
Jab Dawson
Body Punching Dawson
Power Kelly
Ring Generalship Dawson
Size Dawson
Workrate Even
Counterpunching Dawson

[TFFP]

This is a fairly easy pick, Dawson by TKO

ESB is going fucking mad

[booradley]

What is this?:think

This is Pimp C getting owned on what he hoped would be yet another Pavlik bashing thread.

[TroubleLurks]

7-5 Dawson the first time 8-4 the second time
Worst scoring I've ever seen you post. Were you drunk both times bro?:huh

[pioterbezkitu]

What does that mean.
Speed Dawson
Footwork Dawson
Stamina Even
Chin Kelly
Heart Even
Defense Dawson
Jab Dawson
Body Punching Dawson
Power Kelly
Ring Generalship Dawson
Size Dawson
Workrate Even
Counterpunching Dawson

Get real :rofl

[Samurai]

Get real :rofl

What advantages does Pavlik hold then?

[TFFP]

7-5 Dawson was a reasonable score

If Pavlik gets near knocked out, and outboxed for long periods before outlasting JT the second time Dawson kills him. Honestly, he would look so slow and pedestrian at 168. Dawson does everything better than Taylor, and more importantly has the stamina to keep it up

[klion22]

Why does everyone think dawson has no power? He absolutely brutualised adamek and got johnsons attention plently of times and johnson has an absolutely iron jaw.

:lol: When and how did Johnson show attention to Dawson's power? He was pretty much in Dawson's face every second of the fight.

[TFFP]

Pavlik's chin is only 'good', and his defence is horrible, Dawson's shots would definitely fuck up Pavlik. His power is nothing special, but it is more than Taylor.

[pioterbezkitu]

What advantages does Pavlik hold then?

Speed Dawson
Footwork Dawson
Stamina Pavlik
Chin Kelly
Heart Even
Defense Dawson
Jab Dawson
Body Punching Even
Power Kelly
Ring Generalship Dawson
Size Even
Workrate Pavlik
Counterpunching Dawson
+ Sticking to a gameplan/focus: Pavlik

[Pimp C]

Speed Dawson
Footwork Dawson
Stamina Pavlik
Chin Kelly
Heart Even
Defense Dawson
Jab Dawson
Body Punching Even
Power Kelly
Ring Generalship Dawson
Size Even
Workrate Pavlik
Counterpunching Dawson
+ Sticking to a gameplan/focus: Pavlik
Being one-dimensional is not sticking to your gameplan, its called being limited.:good
Body punching are you joking? Dawson is light years beyong Kelly here
Stamina they both have good stamina not to mention Dawson uses more movement so his stamina is arguably better.
Workrate is even both have a good one.

[TFFP]

Being one-dimensional is not sticking to your gameplan.:good
Technically he does stick to it, but he only has one :yep

[Fat Joe]

Technically he does stick to it, but he only has one :yep

One trick pony

[Samurai]

Technically he does stick to it, but he only has one :yep

But it is highly effective.

[*BOX_FAN*]

Pavlik by TKO.

[TFFP]

But it is highly effective.
Up to this point...

Not much further I assure you. Maybe against Lockett though :yep

[pioterbezkitu]

Being one-dimensional is not sticking to your gameplan, its called being limited.:good
Body punching are you joking? Dawson is light years beyong Kelly here
Stamina they both have good stamina not to mention Dawson uses more movement so his stamina is arguably better.
Workrate is even both have a good one.

Dawson has few and can't stick to any of them :yep

[JETSKI]

What does that mean.
Speed Dawson
Footwork Dawson
Stamina Even
Chin Kelly
Heart Even
Defense Dawson
Jab Dawson
Body Punching Dawson
Power Kelly
Ring Generalship Dawson
Size Dawson
Workrate Even
Counterpunching Dawson

You can throw all that stuff out da window, cause ONE good touch on Chad's chin & its OVAH!

[TFFP]

You can throw all that stuff out da window, cause ONE good touch on Chad's chin & its OVAH!
He doesn't punch like Prince Naseem you clown:rofl

He has heavy hands, but it's accumulative power. He must have hit Miranda and Taylor about a million times before the ref saw enough

[Ramshall1]

Pav smacks that runner around until the ref saves him.

[booradley]

In all honesty I have to admit that Kelly Pavlik is still untested in many ways. At his point I think there are two types of fighters that might beat him.

1) A really bad ass brawler who's strong enough and hits hard enough to win a war of attrition. Kelly has not faced anyone who can make him stay on his back foot, and box.

2) A really slick, really fast, counter puncher with enough power to make Pavlik tenative thereby cutting his work rate way down.

I don't think dawson fits either description.

Boo

[MasterCalzaghe]

Dawson would KTFO Pavlik......

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

NOT! :D

[pipe wrenched]

Dawson would KTFO Pavlik......

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

NOT! :D

:rofl :rofl

It's funny 'cause it's true....:D

[dave]

Pavlik

[BITCH ASS]

Pavlik's chin is only 'good', and his defence is horrible, Dawson's shots would definitely fuck up Pavlik. His power is nothing special, but it is more than Taylor.

:patsch

Slap yourself.

[BITCH ASS]

People on this board don't realize that Pavlik is a hungry, hard working fighter and what he lacks in athleticism, he makes up for with heart and determination.

It also doesn't hurt that he has great stamina, heavy, hard hitting hands, and unless you're an excellent boxer and you can avoid his devestating bodyshots which lead to the systematic breakdown with right hands or as people on this board like to put it, "accumulation shots."

Although, I'm skeptical of the accumulation, as so many put it because considering his spectacular KO's of Taylor, Zertuche, and Miranda, I'm under the impression that Kelly does infact possess 1 punch KO power, but is relatively slow, so until his opponent tires, he's unable to land it.

If it's just accumulation that stops his opponents, why don't his bouts end in TKO's? You can't tell me when he put Zertuche to sleep, or was killin Miranda against the ropes, or put Taylor in the zone that those were merely accumulation shots.

I'll be real though. He does hurt you to the body and once he sees his opponent start to fade, it's all over.

Dawson?

What has he proved. He proved he doesn't have entirely too much courage in denying Johnson a rematch. Shit, Johnson earned one. And just the fact that he couldn't dominate an opponent that was 14 years his senior and was NO defensive mastermind says a lot about Dawson as well. Dawson isn't on Pavlik's level yet as far as experience and big fights are concerned, I know that much. As far as his ability, well you get what you see, and you would think that his ability would be able to carry the day......

BUT......

Does Dawson have the heart to deal with Kelly's pressure? If Dawson thought Johnson was rough, wait until he gets a 25 year old on his ass giving him relentless pressure.

So people that say Pavlik would win aren't so far off, and very well could be right.

Right now though, this fight isn't in the best interest of either fighter. Pavlik should stay at middle a little longer, and Dawson should regain his respect with a rematch against Johnson.

[Pimp C]

Pav smacks that runner around until the ref saves him.
:patsch

[Samurai]

Do people forget that at 168 pounds Dawson will have even better punching power? At 175, I think his power is very underrated, I saw him stun iron-chinned Adamek a few times, making him reluctant to engage. He also rocked him in the 11th round, right after he'd gotten knocked down.

[BITCH ASS]

Do people forget that at 168 pounds Dawson will have even better punching power? At 175, I think his power is very underrated, I saw him stun iron-chinned Adamek a few times, making him reluctant to engage. He also rocked him in the 11th round, right after he'd gotten knocked down.

How do you know that?

To me Taylor looked a lot stronger at 166 when he fought Pavlik, so what makes you think for sure that Dawson will get stronger as he moves down in weight?

He might be weight drained.

[Pimp C]

Do people forget that at 168 pounds Dawson will have even better punching power? At 175, I think his power is very underrated, I saw him stun iron-chinned Adamek a few times, making him reluctant to engage. He also rocked him in the 11th round, right after he'd gotten knocked down.
People here are so quick to underrate Dawson. He beat two tough guys in Adamek and Johnson not an easy task. The guy has good power at 175 and at 168 it will be a lot better. He's young has very good skills and will only get better. He proved his heart in his last fight against Johnson when he could have layed down and quit.

[BITCH ASS]

People here are so quick to underrate Dawson. He beat two tough guys in Adamek and Johnson not an easy task. The guy has good power at 175 and at 168 it will be a lot better. He's young has very good skills and will only get better. He proved his heart in his last fight against Johnson when he could have layed down and quit.

The mother fucker is 57 years old.

[Samurai]

A topic was posted a little bit before the Dawson-Johnson fight where Dawson said in an interview that he's not really a light heavyweight. Saying he enters camp at 170 pounds and has to train to get UP in weight.

[Samurai]

People here are so quick to underrate Dawson. He beat two tough guys in Adamek and Johnson not an easy task. The guy has good power at 175 and at 168 it will be a lot better. He's young has very good skills and will only get better. He proved his heart in his last fight against Johnson when he could have layed down and quit.

:thumbsup

[Pimp C]

The mother fucker is 57 years old.
Johnson gives anyone at 175 hell and you know it. He's tough as hell and relentless.

[Caliboxing]

Pavlik can match Dawson's jab and won't have too much trouble landing his right hand. Dawson would win some early rounds by using a lot of movement but will slow down later in the fight and that's when Pavlik will start to break him down.

[Decebal]

Dawson would beat Superman easily. People picking Superman are probably comparing this matchup to Dawson-Johnson, which is wrong. Even at an old age, Johnson has a granite chin and anticipates punches better than Superman. Dawson hits much, much harder than Taylor, who nearly stopped Kelly, stunned him many times, and had no trouble finding him every time he decided to throw punches. If Taylor had better stamina he would have beaten Pavlik in the rematch. There is no way Superman would be walking through Dawson's punches and at 175 his power, physical strength, and speed would decrease, making him even more predictable and average than he already is.

As unimpressive as Dawson was against Johnson, Pavlik was as unimpressive against Taylor. Imagine Dawson in the ring against Superman last February.. he would destroy the guy. Come on.. the main reason Pavlik is rated so highly is because of the division he's in and the physical advantages he has over opponents there. If he was a SMW or a LHW, he would be owned by the B+ or higher level fighters there.

It's got nothing to do with how predictable or "average" Pavlik is. It's to do with the fact that Dawson likes to stay put and fight, after a couple of rounds of flashy movement and pitter-patter body-punching. He just stands there, tired. His defence being what it is, the Pavlik jab - which is a 12 rounds jab, not a 4 round jab, would keep pushing him back and the right cross would keep nailing him. He'd come to fight even more, playing right into Pavlik's hands. With 6 months to build up, Pavlik would become a big SMW. Dawson is a normal SMW fighting at LHW. Pavlik is B to B+, just like Dawson, but styles would favour him A LOT over Dawson.

Easy win...Pavlik KO 8.

[Decebal]

Pavlik can match Dawson's jab and won't have too much trouble landing his right hand. Dawson would win some early rounds by using a lot of movement but will slow down later in the fight and that's when Pavlik will start to break him down.

:deal

[Decebal]

Is this a joke?

Yap; huki is having a laugh; Dawson doesn't hit much, much harder than Taylor. In fact, he has less power p4p.

[Decebal]

This is a fairly easy pick, Dawson by TKO

ESB is going fucking mad

:patsch

[Decebal]

What does that mean.
Speed Dawson
Footwork Dawson
Stamina KELLY!
Chin Kelly
Heart KELLY!
Defense even
Jab Dawson - for first 4 rounds; KELLY from 4-8, when stoppage occurs
Body Punching Dawson
Power Kelly
Ring Generalship KELLY!
Size KELLY!
Workrate KELLY! after the first 4 rounds
Counterpunching Dawson

Easy win for KELLY!:smooch

[Decebal]

he is hatting on Pavlik and Bute, let him do his thing and don't care:nut

Well, a couple of months ago, I'd go around repeating what the big boys were saying...it's part of the learning process. The next level = doubt. Level after that = start thinking for yourself!;)

[PACZ]

Pavlik Easy Knockout Win. Adamek Walked Him Down. Pavlik Could Too. He Would Be Laying Down Not Sitting Though!

[C Money]

"Down goes Dawson! Down goes Dawson!":lol: :D

Dawson's game will unfold in the mid rounds and goes sleepy night, night time:good

Calzaghe vs Pavlik is the FIGHT:good

[Decebal]

"Down goes Dawson! Down goes Dawson!":lol: :D

Dawson's game will unfold in the mid rounds and goes sleepy night, night time:good

Calzaghe vs Pavlik is the FIGHT:good

I KNEW C Money would see it as it is!:happy :happy :happy :happy :happy

Nice one, C Money! When everyone else lost their heads with the Povetkin fight, we two held true!:yep

[Executioner]

Dawson KO9

[Decebal]

Pavlik Easy Knockout Win. Adamek Walked Him Down. Pavlik Could Too. He Would Be Laying Down Not Sitting Though!

Pavlik's style is much better suited to beating Dawson than Adamek's. Also, don't forget Adamek was having an off night and Dawson gave the performance of his life, and still got put down...;)

[C Money]

There's a Pavlik backlash of sorts with some of the top predictors. That comes from being Calzaghe fans. But I say? I respected Joe and will continue, thats a great fight with legacy and $$$$$$ at stake for both:good

Dawson? As I said, will unfold and disappear vs KP:good Pavlik has boxing skill, size, and POWER. Dawson wont go 12 taking those shots:nono :thumbsup

[Executioner]

i forgot to add that the judges score cards will be read as the following at the time of the stoppage.

80-72
80-72
and 80-72 for Dawson :yep

[huki]

It's got nothing to do with how predictable or "average" Pavlik is. It's to do with the fact that Dawson likes to stay put and fight, after a couple of rounds of flashy movement and pitter-patter body-punching. He just stands there, tired. His defence being what it is, the Pavlik jab - which is a 12 rounds jab, not a 4 round jab, would keep pushing him back and the right cross would keep nailing him. He'd come to fight even more, playing right into Pavlik's hands. With 6 months to build up, Pavlik would become a big SMW. Dawson is a normal SMW fighting at LHW. Pavlik is B to B+, just like Dawson, but styles would favour him A LOT over Dawson.

Easy win...Pavlik KO 8. :lol: I thought you were a Dawson fan. You have been seriously underrating him after the Johnson fight..

Dawson is an A- level fighter, Pavlik at 168 would be B at best. "Dawson doesn't hit much, much harder than Taylor. In fact, he has less power p4p." Yes, he does.. MUCH harder. There's no point of arguing about this. When Taylor landed flush on Spinks it didn't hurt him. He couldn't even affect Ouma with his best shots. He has not scored one impressive KO in his entire career. Imagine what Dawson would do to Spinks or Ouma if he landed on them.. come on, you can't say Dawson doesn't hit a lot harder. And P4P, Dawson punches harder too. Their raw power is about the same P4P, but Dawson's superior speed, much superior accuracy, and much greater punch variety makes his punches harder and more effective.

There's no way Pavlik would be walking through Dawson's punches the way Johnson did. Dawson's body punching is not pitter-patter, it would affect Pavlik. You keep talking about how Pavlik would constantly push Dawson back and land jabs/right hands on him, but you're ignoring the fact that Dawson would have no trouble landing everything on him and pushing him back. Pavlik fights much worse than Dawson going backwards and again, his chin isn't good enough to not get affected by Dawson's punches.

This is the guy who nearly got stopped by Taylor in their first fight and nearly lost and gave away the rematch.. Taylor, a fighter who's made for him. Dawson is superior to Taylor in every single way. He wouldn't fight in spurts and he would move around a lot better. Taylor, who can't stick to a plan, has average power at best, is sloppy as hell, and is extremely predictable was able to control Pavlik during many rounds with his movement/outside game and land on him often, stunning him multiple times. If his stamina was better, he could have beaten Pavlik. Dawson is an accurate puncher with better timing, his jab is better, his body punching is better, his stamina is better, his punches are much harder, he's physically larger, he's slightly faster, his movement is better, he fights off the back foot better, his reflexes are better, etc. Pavlik is not Johnson. Pavlik wouldn't come close to beating Pavlik and I highly doubt he would make it into the later rounds, because his defense is shit and at 168 he wouldn't be as effective overall.

If you believe Pavlik stops Dawson, then you should believe Pavlik beats Bute too. You're making Pavlik out to be better than he actually is and you're underrating Dawson like crazy just because of one dissappointing performance against an extremely motivated, surprisngly top-form Johnson.

[Decebal]

:lol: I thought you were a Dawson fan. You have been seriously underrating him after the Johnson fight..

Dawson is an A- level fighter, Pavlik at 168 would be B at best. "Dawson doesn't hit much, much harder than Taylor. In fact, he has less power p4p." Yes, he does.. MUCH harder. There's no point of arguing about this. When Taylor landed flush on Spinks it didn't hurt him. He couldn't even affect Ouma with his best shots. He has not scored one impressive KO in his entire career. Imagine what Dawson would do to Spinks or Ouma if he landed on them.. come on, you can't say Dawson doesn't hit a lot harder. And P4P, Dawson punches harder too. Their raw power is about the same P4P, but Dawson's superior speed, much superior accuracy, and much greater punch variety makes his punches harder and more effective.

There's no way Pavlik would be walking through Dawson's punches the way Johnson did. Dawson's body punching is not pitter-patter, it would affect Pavlik. You keep talking about how Pavlik would constantly push Dawson back and land jabs/right hands on him, but you're ignoring the fact that Dawson would have no trouble landing everything on him and pushing him back. Pavlik fights much worse than Dawson going backwards and again, his chin isn't good enough to not get affected by Dawson's punches.

This is the guy who nearly got stopped by Taylor in their first fight and nearly lost and gave away the rematch.. Taylor, a fighter who's made for him. Dawson is superior to Taylor in every single way. He wouldn't fight in spurts and he would move around a lot better. Taylor, who can't stick to a plan, has average power at best, is sloppy as hell, and is extremely predictable was able to control Pavlik during many rounds with his movement/outside game and land on him often, stunning him multiple times. If his stamina was better, he could have beaten Pavlik. Dawson is an accurate puncher with better timing, his jab is better, his body punching is better, his stamina is better, his punches are much harder, he's physically larger, he's slightly faster, his movement is better, he fights off the back foot better, his reflexes are better, etc. Pavlik is not Johnson. Pavlik wouldn't come close to beating Pavlik and I highly doubt he would make it into the later rounds, because his defense is shit and at 168 he wouldn't be as effective overall.

If you believe Pavlik stops Dawson, then you should believe Pavlik beats Bute too. You're making Pavlik out to be better than he actually is and you're underrating Dawson like crazy just because of one dissappointing performance against an extremely motivated, surprisngly top-form Johnson.

I AM a Dawson fan, but I was overrating him a lot, based on his performance against an Adamek who had a bad night and showed him too much respect. Dawson ain't no A- level fighter! Not even Calzaghe is A- based on his last performance. Dawson is B+, overall, at best. No more. Even Kessler is better overall. Dawson doesn't hit a lot harder than Taylor, no. In any case, this is not about Taylor. It's about Pavlik, who hits harder than both, even at 160. Dawson is effective not because of his power, but because of his speed, accuracy and flurried combinations. It is essential that people understand that. Pavlik is solid enough to take Dawson's best punch/punch combo, but Dawson couldn't take that right landing flush on his jaw. Dawson would outbox Pavlik for a couple of rounds, tire and then get pushed back by the stronger more aggressive man. He'd get cut up by that right. He would definitely get pushed against the ropes in the mid rounds and get nailed. If he tries to come forward and have it out, he wouldn't win a brawl. He just doesn't have enough power and his head movement is even worse than Pavlik's. Pavlik's chin is solid. He wouldn't fight going backwards, but forwards, behind that jab. Comparing Dawson and Taylor is a silly thing to do - they don't have the same styles. Taylor's style is better suited to beating Pavlik than Dawson's, because Taylor is a much better brawler and because of the way he comes in with that loopy right. Inside, he's better than Dawson too. Much better. Do Bute and Dawson have the same style?? Does Bute have Dawson's chin? Does Bute fight the wrong gameplan? Does he lose the plot? Does he get almost KTFO every time he fights? Come on! No need to bring Bute into this - different styles, different strengths.

So your argument is based on transitivity arguments that don't apply, using wrong assumptions: Dawson's power is better than Taylor and Taylor almost KTFO Pavlik, so Dawson KTFO Pavlik! Ridiculous!!!

Not only have you assumed the wrong things, but you've forgotten the first rule of analysis - styles make fights.

Then, you've thrown in some more red herrings e.g. Bute....

I'm not impressed, huki...you can do better than that!:good

And you're overrating Dawson so much that I'm starting to put you in with Pimp C in the nuthugger category.

[C Money]

:lol: I thought you were a Dawson fan. You have been seriously underrating him after the Johnson fight..

Dawson is an A- level fighter, Pavlik at 168 would be B at best. "Dawson doesn't hit much, much harder than Taylor. In fact, he has less power p4p." Yes, he does.. MUCH harder. There's no point of arguing about this. When Taylor landed flush on Spinks it didn't hurt him. He couldn't even affect Ouma with his best shots. He has not scored one impressive KO in his entire career. Imagine what Dawson would do to Spinks or Ouma if he landed on them.. come on, you can't say Dawson doesn't hit a lot harder. And P4P, Dawson punches harder too. Their raw power is about the same P4P, but Dawson's superior speed, much superior accuracy, and much greater punch variety makes his punches harder and more effective.

There's no way Pavlik would be walking through Dawson's punches the way Johnson did. Dawson's body punching is not pitter-patter, it would affect Pavlik. You keep talking about how Pavlik would constantly push Dawson back and land jabs/right hands on him, but you're ignoring the fact that Dawson would have no trouble landing everything on him and pushing him back. Pavlik fights much worse than Dawson going backwards and again, his chin isn't good enough to not get affected by Dawson's punches.

This is the guy who nearly got stopped by Taylor in their first fight and nearly lost and gave away the rematch.. Taylor, a fighter who's made for him. Dawson is superior to Taylor in every single way. He wouldn't fight in spurts and he would move around a lot better. Taylor, who can't stick to a plan, has average power at best, is sloppy as hell, and is extremely predictable was able to control Pavlik during many rounds with his movement/outside game and land on him often, stunning him multiple times. If his stamina was better, he could have beaten Pavlik. Dawson is an accurate puncher with better timing, his jab is better, his body punching is better, his stamina is better, his punches are much harder, he's physically larger, he's slightly faster, his movement is better, he fights off the back foot better, his reflexes are better, etc. Pavlik is not Johnson. Pavlik wouldn't come close to beating Pavlik and I highly doubt he would make it into the later rounds, because his defense is shit and at 168 he wouldn't be as effective overall.

If you believe Pavlik stops Dawson, then you should believe Pavlik beats Bute too. You're making Pavlik out to be better than he actually is and you're underrating Dawson like crazy just because of one dissappointing performance against an extremely motivated, surprisngly top-form Johnson.

Them JC shades are cool!!:cool:

But they might be shading you're vision here:yep

Pavlik's better than Dawson:good

[Decebal]

Decebal is fuckin on FIRE

This is such an easy pick! It's like picking Calzaghe over Lacy!

[Ring Master]

Dawson.

[huki]

I AM a Dawson fan, but I was overrating him a lot, based on his performance against an Adamek who had a bad night and showed him too much respect. Dawson ain't no A- level fighter! Not even Calzaghe is A- based on his last performance. Dawson is B+, overall, at best. No more. Even Kessler is better overall. Dawson doesn't hit a lot harder than Taylor, no. In any case, this is not about Taylor. It's about Pavlik, who hits harder than both, even at 160. Dawson is effective not because of his power, but because of his speed, accuracy and flurried combinations. It is essential that people understand that. Pavlik is solid enough to take Dawson's best punch/punch combo, but Dawson couldn't take that right landing flush on his jaw. Dawson would outbox Pavlik for a couple of rounds, tire and then get pushed back by the stronger more aggressive man. He'd get cut up by that right. He would definitely get pushed against the ropes in the mid rounds and get nailed. If he tries to come forward and have it out, he wouldn't win a brawl. He just doesn't have enough power and his head movement is even worse than Pavlik's. Pavlik's chin is solid. He wouldn't fight going backwards, but forwards, behind that jab. Comparing Dawson and Taylor is a silly thing to do - they don't have the same styles. Taylor's style is better suited to beating Pavlik than Dawson's, because Taylor is a much better brawler and because of the way he comes in with that loopy right. Inside, he's better than Dawson too. Much better. Do Bute and Dawson have the same style?? Does Bute have Dawson's chin? Does Bute fight the wrong gameplan? Does he lose the plot? Does he get almost KTFO every time he fights? Come on! No need to bring Bute into this - different styles, different strengths.

So your argument is based on transitivity arguments that don't apply, using wrong assumptions: Dawson's power is better than Taylor and Taylor almost KTFO Pavlik, so Dawson KTFO Pavlik! Ridiculous!!!

Not only have you assumed the wrong things, but you've forgotten the first rule of analysis - styles make fights.

Then, you've thrown in some more red herrings e.g. Bute....

I'm not impressed, huki...you can do better than that!:good

And you're overrating Dawson so much that I'm starting to put you in with Pimp C in the nuthugger category. Dawson is A- level to me, Kessler is A. But that all depends on how strict you are with ratings. All I can say is if Dawson is B+, Pavlik is B-.

Taylor's style is not better suited for Pavlik than Dawson's. He's not much of a brawler and his work on the inside didn't matter a whole lot. I mentioned the Taylor fights because of the success Taylor had when he fought on the outside and showed a jab with okay movement. Dawson's movement is much superior, he is larger, he punches harder, and his punches are quicker/more accurate/less predictable. Plus, he has better stamina and punch output. That's why he would have success against Pavlik. Dawson would be able to take a Pavlik right to the chin, just like Taylor was able to take it in the rematch when he had to (who's chin is far from great). Why do you mention Dawson's chin, but fail to mention Pavlik's chin at a lower weight class? In the first Taylor fight, Pavlik was hurt much worse than Dawson ever was in his career.

It is not logical to think that Pavlik will walk through Dawson's punches with his shit defense, no size advantage, and shaky chin. You're also assuming that Pavlik will be the same fighter with the same advantages he had at 168 or higher. His punching power, which isn't great will most likely be worse and his speed will be slightly worse also.

Ignore the Bute comment, I didn't explain that and it has to do with you overrating Pavlik. But I don't want to get into that.

I don't know why you're acting like it's such an easy pick. Is it that hard to see Dawson outboxing Pavlik and making him get his respect, backing him up and stunning him at many points of the fight? You're basing how this fight would go on how the Johnson fight went, which isn't right. Pavlik is no Glen Johnson. I believe Dawson learned things in the Johnson fight and will improve also, but I'm not gonna argue that right now. Pavlik will never improve much IMO and will become significantly worse when he moves up. Comparing this to a fight like Calzaghe-Lacy, where one fighter has a huge styles advantage and is overall a much better fighter is silly. I doubt a lot of the top fight pickers would be picking Pavlik, because most people that know boxing well have a pretty low opinion of Pavlik when it comes to matching him up with elite fighters.

[Decebal]

Dawson is A- level to me, Kessler is A. But that all depends on how strict you are with ratings. All I can say is if Dawson is B+, Pavlik is B-.

Taylor's style is not better suited for Pavlik than Dawson's. He's not much of a brawler and his work on the inside didn't matter a whole lot. I mentioned the Taylor fights because of the success Taylor had when he fought on the outside and showed a jab with okay movement. Dawson's movement is much superior, he is larger, he punches harder, and his punches are quicker/more accurate/less predictable. Plus, he has better stamina and punch output. That's why he would have success against Pavlik. Dawson would be able to take a Pavlik right to the chin, just like Taylor was able to take it in the rematch when he had to (who's chin is far from great). Why do you mention Dawson's chin, but fail to mention Pavlik's chin at a lower weight class? In the first Taylor fight, Pavlik was hurt much worse than Dawson ever was in his career.

It is not logical to think that Pavlik will walk through Dawson's punches with his shit defense, no size advantage, and shaky chin. You're also assuming that Pavlik will be the same fighter with the same advantages he had at 168 or higher. His punching power, which isn't great will most likely be worse and his speed will be slightly worse also.

Ignore the Bute comment, I didn't explain that and it has to do with you overrating Pavlik. But I don't want to get into that.

I don't know why you're acting like it's such an easy pick. Is it that hard to see Dawson outboxing Pavlik and making him get his respect, backing him up and stunning him at many points of the fight? You're basing how this fight would go on how the Johnson fight went, which isn't right. Pavlik is no Glen Johnson. I believe Dawson learned things in the Johnson fight and will improve also, but I'm not gonna argue that right now. Pavlik will never improve much IMO and will become significantly worse when he moves up. Comparing this to a fight like Calzaghe-Lacy, where one fighter has a huge styles advantage and is overall a much better fighter is silly. I doubt a lot of the top fight pickers would be picking Pavlik, because most people that know boxing well have a pretty low opinion of Pavlik when it comes to matching him up with elite fighters.

Nothing to do with Glen Johnson; not sure why you keep bringing that up. Completely different styles.

Pavlik's a good finisher. He WOULD stun Dawson, eventually. That is inevitable. Then, he'd push him back and nail him. NAIL HIM.

Pavlik is a very efficient puncher. His punching is based on technique. He would be an even bigger puncher at a higher weight. And Pavlik doesn't have a shaky chin. If he has a shaky chin, so does Bika, etc.

Ridiculous! Dawson would have to swing for the fences to hurt Pavlik. He'd get nailed badly in the process.

Easy pick. You're either having a laugh or you've let the hype get to you.

Dawson has some significant weaknesses which cannot be overlooked. Pavlik has the right strengths to take advantage and not to succumb to Dawson's strengths. As simple as that.

[huki]

Nothing to do with Glen Johnson; not sure why you keep bringing that up. Completely different styles.

Pavlik's a good finisher. He WOULD stun Dawson, eventually. That is inevitable. Then, he'd push him back and nail him. NAIL HIM.

Pavlik is a very efficient puncher. His punching is based on technique. He would be an even bigger puncher at a higher weight. And Pavlik doesn't have a shaky chin. If he has a shaky chin, so does Bika, etc.

Ridiculous! Dawson would have to swing for the fences to hurt Pavlik. He'd get nailed badly in the process.

Easy pick. You're either having a laugh or you've let the hype get to you.

Dawson has some significant weaknesses which cannot be overlooked. Pavlik has the right strengths to take advantage and not to succumb to Dawson's strengths. As simple as that. He doesn't have a shaky chin? :lol: Come on..

Why would he be a bigger puncher at a higher weight? Dawson has weaknesses, but Pavlik has even more and Dawson's style would give him huge problems. Thinking Pavlik would run through him and stop him in the mid-rounds is overrating Pavlik's abilities and underating Dawson's greatly IMO.

I would be very surprised if posters like Brooklyn, Amsterdam, and kg picked Pavlik to get an easy win.

[booradley]

a shaky chin?:rofl
yeah right...get lost faggot

I was reading one of Huki's posts, and as soon as I read "shakey chin" I lost all interest and stopped reading. Guys with shakey chins don't get back up at the count of 2, and proceed to dominate their opponent.

[PH|LLA]

this is actually a very close and exciting matchup



Dawson by close UD.

btw i started a poll a few months ago asking who was better between Pavlik and Dawson, and 80% voted Dawson.

[huki]

I was reading one of Huki's posts, and as soon as I read "shakey chin" I lost all interest and stopped reading. Guys with shakey chins don't get back up at the count of 2, and proceed to dominate their opponent. And guys that don't have shaky chins don't even get hurt badly against average punchers and get put into situations where they have to get up and win dramatically. Pavlik has a shaky chin, it's a fact.

I would be willing to make a one year avatar bet with anyone if Dawson-Pavlik is made.

a shaky chin?:rofl
yeah right...get lost faggot
Moron.. :lol: Keep living in a fantasy world where Montreal fighters can beat anybody instead of analyzing boxing with logic.

[booradley]

this is actually a very close and exciting matchup



Dawson by close UD.

btw i started a poll a few months ago asking who was better between Pavlik and Dawson, and 80% voted Dawson.

I disagree with you on the outcome, but I definietly agree that this would be good match making. I think the poll is about right; 60/40 in favor of Pavlik.

[Hermit]

Not even Calzaghe is A- based on his last performance.
I think you just broke my jaw by having it hit the floor dude.......

[Paulie]

pavlik easy...

[TFFP]

pavlik easy...
Are you sure Bute couldn't win this fight? :huh

In theory he could jump in and KTFO out of them with a steel chair, WWE style

[slicksouthpaw16]

Chad Dawson by the most masterful performance in recent memory, him scoring a late stoppage is also not out of the question. He would slip those slow telegraph left jabs and keep the fight on the outside, the way Taylor did on the rematch. When you keep Pavlik in the center of the ring and box, then he is completely nullified because his game consist on backing his opponents onto the ropes. Pavlik gets most of his knockouts when his opponent lays on the ropes and Dawson never does this. He is a masterful pure boxer with great handspeed and footwork, When he fought Johnson, he fought on the inside and gave Johnson his chances to win the fight. I am very sure that he learned from his miskates and will continue to use his height and reach advantages.

[bigeddie27]

Pavlik was outboxed? Did you happen to notice who won that fight by unanimous decision?

yeah and since when was jt the slick boxer? My point for your dumb ass is that if taylor can do extremly well boxing kelly EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT A NATURAL BOXER WOULD MEAN THAT DAWSON (WHO IS THE CLEARLY SUPERIOR BOXER AND FIGHTER) WOULD TAX THAT ASS. Now get off your nuthugging and just admit along with everyone else here that kelly would get owned. And I would bet my house on this if it took place.

[KO Boxing]

I think you just broke my jaw by having it hit the floor dude.......
:huh

You think that performance grants him an "A-" ranking? B+, itself, is stretching it. And this is supposed to be one of the five top boxers p4p in the world, RIGHT NOW.

Obviously, we're in a bit of a flunk.

[markbrooklyn]

You people amaze me that pick Pavlik to knock Chad Dawson out. Dawson is used to getting hit by LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS. Pavlik has alot of power at MIDDLEWEIGHT. Jermain Taylor knocked him around the ring and in the 2nd fight he couldnt even KO Taylor and Taylor isnt expactly known for his movement. Dawson would stop Pavlik in his tracks. Pavlik is slow as a middleweight and would be even slower as a supermiddleweight.

[BigReg]

Some of the respones here really suprise me. The fact that some say that Pavlik easily beats Dawson is laughable. Dawson is bigger, faster, and more skilled than Pavlik. Let's not also forget that Dawson fights at 175 and Pavlik fights at 160. If Pavlik can easily beat one of the best 175 lb. fighters in the world, then why they hell is he starving himself in order to fight at a subpar MW division? Pavlik was getting outboxed by Taylor, what the hell makes you think he can beat Dawson?

[booradley]

delete

[Hermit]

:huh

You think that performance grants him an "A-" ranking? B+, itself, is stretching it. And this is supposed to be one of the five top boxers p4p in the world, RIGHT NOW.

Obviously, we're in a bit of a flunk.

I was just shocked to here Decebel say it dude.....

[brooklyn1550]

Dawson

[KO Boxing]

I was just shocked to here Decebel say it dude.....
Aaaah, got ya.

:good

[Biff_McBiff]

I can't believe the lack of accurate analysis in this thread. Dawson is much bigger than Kelly he's been fighting at 175 for christ sake he could deal with Kelly's power. What would be the real test is could Kelly deal with Dawson's power. Kelly was hurt badly against Taylor and no way in hell does he come close to Chad's power. People are so quick to look at things like power but overlook things like southapw stance, footwork, speed, jab and accuracy. Kelly's footwork is poor and against someone like Dawson he would have to reset every time in order to get off, not to mention he can't fight backing up which he will be doing alot of against Chad. I see Dawson working from his southpaw stance using an educated workrate, his superior jab and footwork to contol this fight from a distance also when he needs to mix it up I see him getting the best of kelly in the exchanges with his superior combo punching. This fight isn't even close and Kelly gets a boxing lesson from a much more complete fighter and losses by wide UD. This would be the first time he'd be in the ring with someone who is bigger and stronger than he is. and it would give him fits.

Well, now that sounds like someone who has actually seen these guys work. I was wondering if anyone had actually seen Chad Dawson fight.

"Pitty Pat" WTF.

[Decebal]

this is actually a very close and exciting matchup



Dawson by close UD.

btw i started a poll a few months ago asking who was better between Pavlik and Dawson, and 80% voted Dawson.

Dawson was overrated then. Anyway, even if he were better p4p, which he's not, it doesn't mean that h2h he'd beat Pavlik at 168, if Pavlik had time to build up to that weight.

[Decebal]

I think you just broke my jaw by having it hit the floor dude.......

:huh

Why? Did you think that was more than a B+ level performance?

[Decebal]

Chad Dawson by the most masterful performance in recent memory, him scoring a late stoppage is also not out of the question. He would slip those slow telegraph left jabs and keep the fight on the outside, the way Taylor did on the rematch. When you keep Pavlik in the center of the ring and box, then he is completely nullified because his game consist on backing his opponents onto the ropes. Pavlik gets most of his knockouts when his opponent lays on the ropes and Dawson never does this. He is a masterful pure boxer with great handspeed and footwork, When he fought Johnson, he fought on the inside and gave Johnson his chances to win the fight. I am very sure that he learned from his miskates and will continue to use his height and reach advantages.

:lol:

Yeah, just like he slipped Johnson's slow, telegraphed punches, right?:roll:

Dawson just stands there to be hit after a couple of rounds. Pavlik would have a field day.

[Decebal]

Dawson

:-(

[cuchulain]

I scored the recent Johnson-Dawson fight narrowly in favour of Glenncoffe.

And I think either one of them would beat Kelly at this stage.

Dawson by UD and Glenn by KO.

[Decebal]

I scored the recent Johnson-Dawson fight narrowly in favour of Glenncoffe.

And I think either one of them would beat Kelly at this stage.

Dawson by UD and Glenn by KO.

Why?:huh

[Decebal]

It amazes me how much people underrate Pavlik and overrate Dawson and how they fail to take into account the fact that styles make fights.:-(

[cuchulain]

Why?:huh


I don't believe I'm underrating Kelly.

Re: Johnson

I think he doesn't have the chin to brawl with Glenn, and I feel tha's what the fight would be. Both guys coming forward and trading. I think Glen's chin is better. I see Pavlik getting nailed and Glenn finishing things off.


Re: Dawson

Chad impressed against Adamek who is more talented I believe, than Kelly.
Chad has better footwork and ring movement than Kelly, and is stronger in the fundamentals of the game and is probably faster. Kelly would have a little more chance here than with Johnson, as Dawson's chin might be a bit suspect, but probably no more than Kelly's own chin. And Kelly would be moving up (again). Dawson is the bigger guy.

That said, anything's possible.

[huki]

:-(
:yep

[Martini643]

PAVLIK KO 5, im not that impressed with dawson

[King Dan]

Bad Chad has been my favorite fighter even when no one knew who he was back in 2001.

Pavlik wins this by wearing Chad down.

[Decebal]

Bad Chad has been my favorite fighter even when no one knew who he was back in 2001.

Pavlik wins this by wearing Chad down.

Well done, mate! Well done!:good

[Decebal]

:yep

brooklyn is still in search of his compass. He picked Hopkins to beat Calzaghe for crisesake.:roll:

[Decebal]

I don't believe I'm underrating Kelly.

Re: Johnson

I think he doesn't have the chin to brawl with Glenn, and I feel tha's what the fight would be. Both guys coming forward and trading. I think Glen's chin is better. I see Pavlik getting nailed and Glenn finishing things off.

Pavlik wouldn't brawl with Johnson. He'd keep him at bay with his jab and land his right on him. Pavlik can get a fairly wide decision by fighting a sensible unspectacular fight. Remember, Pavlik is more steadfast than Dawson. He'd stick to the plan. Johnson doesn't have the workrate to beat Pavlik any more.


Re: Dawson

Chad impressed against Adamek who is more talented I believe, than Kelly.
Chad has better footwork and ring movement than Kelly, and is stronger in the fundamentals of the game and is probably faster. Kelly would have a little more chance here than with Johnson, as Dawson's chin might be a bit suspect, but probably no more than Kelly's own chin. And Kelly would be moving up (again). Dawson is the bigger guy.

That said, anything's possible.

Adamek has a different style! Adamek was fighting at the wrong weight and hesitated when he should have finished him. Kelly's chin is definitely not suspect and clearly better than Dawson's. If Miranda had taken those shots at Dawson, do you think he would have gotten up? I don't. Pavlik's improved a lot since then. Dawson has gotten worse since Adamek. Dawson is not bigger than Kelly, if Kelly had time to build up. This is a major misconception. Chad is tall, but he's not big.

[Hermit]

:huh

Why? Did you think that was more than a B+ level performance?

I'm surprised hearing that from you is all....:good

[Decebal]

I'm surprised hearing that from you is all....:good

Why? When have I not tried to be objective?:huh

[Hermit]

Why? When have I not tried to be objective?:huh

OK. I'll give you the chance to KO me here. If you include JC and KP in your rankings for 168, where do they fit in?

[Decebal]

OK. I'll give you the chance to KO me here. If you include JC and KP in your rankings for 168, where do they fit in?

JC is the best, obviously. I would say, KP would be Top 10 if he went up. Couldn't put him Top 5 yet, though. So...somewhere in that range. Would have to beat another Top 10 to prove himself. Top 7-8? Wouldn't be that surprised if he made Top 5, though. But better than that? I'm not convinced yet. There's a couple of people at 168 with the style and qualities to beat him. Don't have that many weaknesses he could take advantage of. But yeah, he's in the mix.

JC also beats KP at 168 because of styles and because he's more polished/better overall.

Happy?

[joe the great]

I don't think Dawson comes down. At 175 I would favor Dawson. At 168 I favor Pavlik.

[BigReg]

Dawson has openly said that he is willing to come down to 168 to fight Pavlik. I wonder if Arum is enthusiastic about Pavlik going up to 168 and fighting Dawson.

[Hermit]

JC is the best, obviously. I would say, KP would be Top 10 if he went up. Couldn't put him Top 5 yet, though. So...somewhere in that range. Would have to beat another Top 10 to prove himself. Top 7-8? Wouldn't be that surprised if he made Top 5, though. But better than that? I'm not convinced yet. There's a couple of people at 168 with the style and qualities to beat him. Don't have that many weaknesses he could take advantage of. But yeah, he's in the mix.

JC also beats KP at 168 because of styles and because he's more polished/better overall.

Happy?

No. I was just curious. You always had JC as A and Pavlik around B- so I was just wondering if you had realigned you 168 thoughts after 'demoting' JC. I would really love to see Kessler/Taylor but it looks like Taylor will be signing with Trinidad.

[TFFP]

The poll results amaze me

I'd be even more amazed if Pavlik beats any of the top 5 at SMW, nevermind LHW

[Hermit]

The poll results amaze me


Me too. Pavlik seemed to pick up lots more supporters after Cal/Hop. Well, at least vocal support. Alot of posters with low post counts came out of the woodwork for a bit.

I've been waiting for Miranda and Taylor to have some fights at SMW to get a better picture. I really wanted to see Miranda/Kessler but would like a Taylor/Kesser even more.

[Decebal]

No. I was just curious. You always had JC as A and Pavlik around B- so I was just wondering if you had realigned you 168 thoughts after 'demoting' JC. I would really love to see Kessler/Taylor but it looks like Taylor will be signing with Trinidad.

JC was an A at his best. For most of his career, though, he was a B+ to A-, closer to B+ than A-. For a couple of years, he's been A- moving towards A, I think. His last performance was not much better than B+.

I had Pavlik between B and B+, but closer to B+. For comparison, I have Bute as a solid B, moving towards B+, but much closer to B than B+. You must have me confused with someone else; I never said Pavlik was ever less than a B.:verysad

[Decebal]

The poll results amaze me

I'd be even more amazed if Pavlik beats any of the top 5 at SMW, nevermind LHW

This simplistic outlook betrays your inexperience. Dawson would be classed as a small SMW. Bute, Kessler, Calzaghe are all big SMWs. The fact that Dawson fights at LHW doesn't mean he is bigger than the top SMWs, who happen to be big SMWs. He fights at LHW because he wants to take advantage of his speed advantage (feet and hands). At SMW, that advantage would be smaller, and he doesn't have the power or strength to overpower big SMWs either. So...it makes sense for him to fight at LHW. He could fight at 160 if he really tried, just like Pavlik. His ideal weight, normally, is 168 TOPS. Pavlik is a very big MW. He looks like a skeleton the way he keeps the weight down. He fights at MW because it's there that he has a big power and strength advantage. That advantage, particularly power, would be smaller at SMW.

Dawson is not bigger than Pavlik. Both should really fight at 168. At 168, Pavlik would in fact be bigger and stronger than Pavlik, who would go for speed rather than (inexistent) power. Dawson on the other hand would get bigger to benefit from the extra power, even at the expense of speed.

[TFFP]

This simplistic outlook betrays your inexperience. Dawson would be classed as a small SMW. Bute, Kessler, Calzaghe are all big SMWs. The fact that Dawson fights at LHW doesn't mean he is bigger than the top SMWs, who happen to be big SMWs. He fights at LHW because he wants to take advantage of his speed advantage (feet and hands). At SMW, that advantage would be smaller, and he doesn't have the power or strength to overpower big SMWs either. So...it makes sense for him to fight at LHW. He could fight at 160 if he really tried, just like Pavlik. His ideal weight, normally, is 168 TOPS. Pavlik is a very big MW. He looks like a skeleton the way he keeps the weight down. He fights at MW because it's there that he has a big power and strength advantage. That advantage, particularly power, would be smaller at SMW.

Dawson is not bigger than Pavlik. Both should really fight at 168. At 168, Pavlik would in fact be bigger and stronger than Pavlik, who would go for speed rather than (inexistent) power. Dawson on the other hand would get bigger to benefit from the extra power, even at the expense of speed.
Inexperience? You don't need to patronise me when making your point, mate...

It wasn't supposed to be an indepth analysis. It was a simple comment that I don't see Pavlik beating any of the top 5 SMW's, and that is not even getting into the top 5 LHW's. Perhaps it appeared simplistic because it was supposed to be...

And I am quite aware Dawson can make 168. My judgement on Pavlik competing with the guys at SMW/LHW has nothing to do with size, rather the large talent differential

:-(

[Hermit]

JI never said Pavlik was ever less than a B.:verysad

But you never gave him any hope at 168 before. Remember the conversations around the article "It's time for Taylor/Pavlik to step UP to Bute"?? But if Arum's off the cuff comment about Pavlik making a statment before he left 160 in January holds, we don't have long to wait before we don't have to speculate.

What is you take on the take on Mundine moving down now that Taylor, Miranda and soon Pavlik, will all be at 168? If he could make weight now, he could have done it before. If he thought he couldn't take 168 from Kessler/Cal, but thought 160 was 'easy' then why didn't he make some fights at 160 before now? Where do you have Mundine at 168?

[TFFP]

But you never gave him any hope at 168 before. Remember the conversations around the article "It's time for Taylor/Pavlik to step UP to Bute"?? But if Arum's off the cuff comment about Pavlik making a statment before he left 160 in January holds, we don't have long to wait before we don't have to speculate.

What is you take on the take on Mundine moving down now that Taylor, Miranda and soon Pavlik, will all be at 168? If he could make weight now, he could have done it before. If he thought he couldn't take 168 from Kessler/Cal, but thought 160 was 'easy' then why didn't he make some fights at 160 before now? Where do you have Mundine at 168?
I'm not quite sure how Decebel has gone from not giving Pavlik a prayer at SMW to summising that he beats a top LHW :huh

[Decebal]

But you never gave him any hope at 168 before. Remember the conversations around the article "It's time for Taylor/Pavlik to step UP to Bute"?? But if Arum's off the cuff comment about Pavlik making a statment before he left 160 in January holds, we don't have long to wait before we don't have to speculate.

What is you take on the take on Mundine moving down now that Taylor, Miranda and soon Pavlik, will all be at 168? If he could make weight now, he could have done it before. If he thought he couldn't take 168 from Kessler/Cal, but thought 160 was 'easy' then why didn't he make some fights at 160 before now? Where do you have Mundine at 168?

He doesn't have much of a chance against the top guys at 168, PARTICULARLY if he climbed in a couple of months, as he was supposed to do against Calzaghe. In 3 months, he wouldn't be able to bulk up properly; he'd either come in fat or he'd come in a lot lighter than the big SMWs...THAT's what I was arguing. YOU were arguing that he's a very big SMW who would have no problem fighting the big SMWs at SMW, if he wanted to. THAT'S WRONG! He would need time to bulk up; he couldn't make that move from one fight to the next. At least 6 months would be required. That's why he won't fight Calzaghe unless Calzaghe waited for him, which he cannot do, because he's retiring.

[Hermit]

I'm not quite sure how Decebel has gone from not giving Pavlik a prayer at SMW to summising that he beats a top LHW :huh
JI had Pavlik between B and B+, but closer to B+. For comparison, I have Bute as a solid B, moving towards B+, but much closer to B than B+.
That is what I took from this.

edit. Misread your post.

[Decebal]

I'm not quite sure how Decebel has gone from not giving Pavlik a prayer at SMW to summising that he beats a top LHW :huh

For the following reasons:

1. Dawson doesn't take advantage of fighting at LHW, weight-wise; he comes in under, by quite a lot. Even big SMWs outweigh him on the night!

2. Pavlik would have enough time to build up properly to 168, so he wouldn't be smaller than Dawson.

3. Styles make fights. Pavlik has the right style and strengths to take advantage of Dawson's style and strengths

4. Dawson is only a top LHW because the division is weak. The former B+/A-/A guys are OLD, way over the hill, and none of the prime guys (e.g. Diaconu) are more than B level.

Clear enough, buddy?

Not enough just to

1. look up boxrec and say: ah...Dawson fights at LHW and Pavlik at MW...so Dawson is MUCH bigger.

2. listen to Amsterdam et al who overrated Dawson a lot, like most of us, and who underrated Pavlik IN COMPARISON TO THE TOP SMWs, especially Calzaghe, who has a big style advantage over him

to draw the conclusion that Dawson would be bound to beat Pavlik.

It's not by any means as simple as that...;)

When comparing Pavlik to Calzaghe, for example, Amsterdam would think like this:

1. Pavlik is smaller. He wouldn't have enough time to build up to a big SMW, in between fights

2. Calzaghe is better, overall, in absolute terms.

3. Calzaghe has a big style advantage over Pavlik

CORRECT CONCLUSION: Pavlik is fucked!

This is how it works.

But that doesn't mean that Dawson would beat Pavlik if Pavlik had time to build up to a proper SMW, if the fight took place at 168 ( i.e. Dawson wouldn't bulk up for it, but would stay the same).

[TFFP]

For the following reasons:

1. Dawson doesn't take advantage of fighting at LHW, weight-wise; he comes in under, by quite a lot. Even big SMWs outweigh him on the night!

2. Pavlik would have enough time to build up properly to 168, so he wouldn't be smaller than Dawson.

3. Styles make fights. Pavlik has the right style and strengths to take advantage of Dawson's style and strengths

4. Dawson is only a top LHW because the division is weak. The former B+/A-/A guys are OLD, way over the hill, and none of the prime guys (e.g. Diaconu) are more than B level.

Clear enough, buddy?

Not enough just to

1. look up boxrec and say: ah...Dawson fights at LHW and Pavlik at MW...so Dawson is MUCH bigger.

2. listen to Amsterdam et al who overrated Dawson a lot, like most of us, and who underrated Pavlik IN COMPARISON TO THE TOP SMWs, especially Calzaghe, who has a big style advantage over him

to draw the conclusion that Dawson would be bound to beat Pavlik.

It's not by any means as simple as that...;)

When comparing Pavlik to Calzaghe, for example, Amsterdam would think like this:

1. Pavlik is smaller. He wouldn't have enough time to build up to a big SMW, in between fights

2. Calzaghe is better, overall, in absolute terms.

3. Calzaghe has a big style advantage over Pavlik

CORRECT CONCLUSION: Pavlik is fucked!

This is how it works.

But that doesn't mean that Dawson would beat Pavlik if Pavlik had time to build up to a proper SMW, if the fight took place at 168 ( i.e. Dawson wouldn't bulk up for it, but would stay the same).
Making things up to suit your argument is not usually your style...

A lot of that was pointless dribble. The point is you think Pavlik has a stylistic advantage over Dawson, presumably based upon the fact he struggled against Johnson. I don't agree

Johnson and Pavlik are very different. I don't see Pavlik just walking forward and eating the crisp counters Johnson took. His defence is worse than Johnson's too, those counters are definitely going to slow him down, and make him think twice about plodding forward...

Pavlik has to walk forward too. He can't win from range, Dawson will easily outbox him with superior handspeed, jab, footwork, pretty much every technical aspect of the sport you can think of...

I just see Dawson as holding all the aces. If Pavlik really wants to press the issue he'll eat a whole lot of leather, and it WILL hurt him. If not, Dawson can comfortably outpoint him

[Decebal]

Making things up to suit your argument is not usually your style...

A lot of that was pointless dribble. The point is you think Pavlik has a stylistic advantage over Dawson, presumably based upon the fact he struggled against Johnson. I don't agree

Johnson and Pavlik are very different. I don't see Pavlik just walking forward and eating the crisp counters Johnson took. His defence is worse than Johnson's too, those counters are definitely going to slow him down, and make him think twice about plodding forward...

Pavlik has to walk forward too. He can't win from range, Dawson will easily outbox him with superior handspeed, jab, footwork, pretty much every technical aspect of the sport you can think of...

I just see Dawson as holding all the aces. If Pavlik really wants to press the issue he'll eat a whole lot of leather, and it WILL hurt him. If not, Dawson can comfortably outpoint him

You're overreaching.;)

[Decebal]

So...brooklyn1550, why would Dawson beat Pavlik at 168, if Pavlik had the time to build up to the weight?

[Hermit]

He doesn't have much of a chance against the top guys at 168, PARTICULARLY if he climbed in a couple of months, as he was supposed to do against Calzaghe. In 3 months, he wouldn't be able to bulk up properly; he'd either come in fat or he'd come in a lot lighter than the big SMWs...THAT's what I was arguing. YOU were arguing that he's a very big SMW who would have no problem fighting the big SMWs at SMW, if he wanted to. THAT'S WRONG! He would need time to bulk up; he couldn't make that move from one fight to the next. At least 6 months would be required. That's why he won't fight Calzaghe unless Calzaghe waited for him, which he cannot do, because he's retiring.
I think I was making the time to bulk up before you, but I'm not going to try and dig old posts to prove that point. ;) But, you are looking at someone that wants to end his career as a heavy. I'm not sure how much time it will take him to bulk up. He has to have an insane work ethic to make 160 now.

[Decebal]

I think I was making the time to bulk up before you, but I'm not going to try and dig old posts to prove that point. ;) But, you are looking at someone that wants to end his career as a heavy. I'm not sure how much time it will take him to bulk up. He has to have an insane work ethic to make 160 now.

He wouldn't build (rather than "bulk") up to 168 unless he was moving up for good. If he fought Calzaghe now, it would be as a one off, so he'd come in much lighter than Calzaghe. If he fought Dawson at 168, he'd build up for good, so he'd come in big and strong.

[Decebal]

For me, this fight boils down to this:

Does Dawson have the tactical discipline to keep the fight on the outside for 12 rounds?

NO.

Does Dawson have the power to hurt Pavlik, to keep him going backwards/fighting off the backfoot?

NO.

Does Dawson have a good enough chin to survive Pavlik's right hand, if it caught him repeatedly, flush?

NO.

Does he have the defence to avoid Pavlik's right?

NO.

Is Pavlik precise/fast enough to land that right on Dawson repeatedly?

FOR SURE!

Is Pavlik a good enough finisher to finish Dawson off, once he hurt him?

DAMNED RIGHT HE IS!

So...easy prediction: Pavlik KO 8 Dawson.


Reason Dawson wants to fight Dawson is because he expects to fight a big MW. WRONG! Dawson also overrates his own chin and defence, not to mention power.

[huki]

brooklyn is still in search of his compass. He picked Hopkins to beat Calzaghe for crisesake.:roll:
That was clearly a heart pick. Brooklyn is 10 times more knowledgable than you or I and he's a better fight picker. You're the only knowledgable poster here saying this would be an easy win for Pavlik.

I don't understand why you feel the need to put Dawson down by making threads like Dawson vs Haye and claiming Pavlik would stop him easily. You're obviously not a Dawson fan. Before the Johnson fight you were, but now you're not sticking behind him and looking at what that one mediocre performance meant. Instead, you're looking to put him down every time his name is brought up and you're underrating him. It would be interesting to see how you would react if someone like Bute had a bad performance against someone like Andrade.

Lets hope Pavlik-Dawson happens sometime. I highly doubt it will though because Pavlik will be destroyed by any top SMW before Dawson is even an option. If it does happen before 2010, we should have an avatar bet on it. Since you're so confident in B level middleweight Pavlik, lets make it a year.

[Decebal]

That was clearly a heart pick. Brooklyn is 10 times more knowledgable than you or I and he's a better fight picker. You're the only knowledgable poster here saying this would be an easy win for Pavlik.

I don't understand why you feel the need to put Dawson down by making threads like Dawson vs Haye and claiming Pavlik would stop him easily. You're obviously not a Dawson fan. Before the Johnson fight you were, but now you're not sticking behind him and looking at what that one mediocre performance meant. Instead, you're looking to put him down every time his name is brought up and you're underrating him. It would be interesting to see how you would react if someone like Bute had a bad performance against someone like Andrade.

Lets hope Pavlik-Dawson happens sometime. I highly doubt it will though because Pavlik will be destroyed by any top SMW before Dawson is even an option. If it does happen before 2010, we should have an avatar bet on it. Since you're so confident in B level middleweight Pavlik, lets make it a year.

C Money, amongst many other knowledgeable posters picked Pavlik!:yep

I am a fan of Dawson, but I realise I was overrating him. Am prepared to admit that not only was he having a bad performance, but that he wasn't as good as I thought he was. ;)

Bute has a big style disadvantage over Andrade. Still, I think he's versatile and intelligent enough to decrease the extent of that disadvantage. Also I think he is better than Andrade, enough so to help him overturn the disadvantage and win a close UD in a very hard fight. We'll see. Bute could lose to Andrade even whilst putting in a good performance, without being overrated, because of the style disadvantage.;)

The difference between the top SMWs and Dawson is that they don't have less power (in some cases - more power (Kessler)), whilst having a much better chin and being much more disciplined and intelligent. :yep

[Gneus7]

What style disadvantage Decebel?

[Decebal]

everyone destroy Pavlik:yep
but hey i'm the canadian who love the canadian fighter based so my opinion is shit?
asshole

:lol:

I know. People are unfair to Montreal fans. Montreal fans are great supporters but they're also fair.:deal

[Decebal]

What style disadvantage Decebel?

:?

What? Dawson over Pavlik? Or Bute over Andrade?

[PH|LLA]

I know. People are unfair to Montreal fans. Montreal fans are great supporters but they're also fair.
qft

[fitzgeraldz]

Dawson by UD ... Dawson is something that Pavlik hasn't seen as a pro ... a fighter thats just as tall and long ... with superior speed ... good defense ... and quick in and out movements - and agility.

Pavlik would be standing there throwing while Dawson would be pivoting and countering.

This fight will not happen at 168 ... I have a feeling that Pavlik is going to skip that division all together or have a few fights there like so many fighters have done and begin to campaign as a LHW.

[huki]

Alright, lets hope the fight comes off. There's no point of arguing about it anymore when we disagree on things such as Dawson's power, Pavlik's chin, and Pavlik's/Dawson's ring intelligence.

everyone destroy Pavlik:yep
but hey i'm the canadian who love the canadian fighter based so my opinion is shit?
asshole
You're just a pure nuthugging moron, there's no reason to ever talk boxing with you.

[Gneus7]

:?

What? Dawson over Pavlik? Or Bute over Andrade?

Bute - Andrade if u don't mind

[Decebal]

You're just a pure nuthugging moron, there's no reason to ever talk boxing with you.

:-( :verysad :-( :verysad :-(

And here was I thinking I was arrogant!:roll:

Bad, baad, huki!:bart

[Gneus7]

it's not like i Overrated our fighter, People underrated Pascal BADLY, people dont recognise Alcine as the best 154lbs, people don,t give a chance to Bute against Calzaghe or Kessler...bunch of silly retards

IMO Bute has a very good chance against anyone 175lb or less

[huki]

:-( :verysad :-( :verysad :-(

And here was I thinking I was arrogant!:roll:

Bad, baad, huki!:bart

a shaky chin?:rofl
yeah right...get lost faggot

I need to be nice to this idiot? He's clearly a blind nuthugger and he constantly insults people when he disagrees with them.

[cuchulain]

Pavlik wouldn't brawl with Johnson. He'd keep him at bay with his jab and land his right on him. Pavlik can get a fairly wide decision by fighting a sensible unspectacular fight. Remember, Pavlik is more steadfast than Dawson. He'd stick to the plan. Johnson doesn't have the workrate to beat Pavlik any more.

IF Kelly doesn't brawl with Johnson, he improves his chances significantly, to the point where he might have a slight edge. But I still see this as a brawl, ending before 6. (BTW, there was nothing much wrong with Glenn's workrate last time out.)


Re: Dawson



Adamek has a different style! Adamek was fighting at the wrong weight and hesitated when he should have finished him. Kelly's chin is definitely not suspect and clearly better than Dawson's.

I definitely don't agree there. Maybe we mean different things by 'suspect'. What I mean by suspect is that if he takes a good flush punch, he will go down. And if Taylor had just slightly better finishing skills , or had remained more composed, Kelly was a whisker away from exposing himself (and by extension, Miranda) in under four minutes of the first fight.

Jaw is suspect !



If Miranda had taken those shots at Dawson, do you think he would have gotten up?

Can't say for sure. i can say that Edison's power is somewhat overrated, IMO. Watch his fight with Abraham.

I don't. Pavlik's improved a lot since then. Dawson has gotten worse since Adamek. Dawson is not bigger than Kelly, if Kelly had time to build up. This is a major misconception. Chad is tall, but he's not big.

If Kelly were to build up, he might be as big as Chad, but right now, I think Chad is bigger (and more skilled).

[Decebal]

Bute - Andrade if u don't mind

Bute is a boxer puncher, who likes to counterpunch; his power isn't special. Watch him against Bika in the first couple of rounds. He likes to take his time to figure out his opponent. He fights quite timidly, minimising risks as much as possible and taking advantage of opponent's mistakes, rather than provoking those mistakes.

Bika won those first couple of rounds. His loopy right was used effectively as an attacking shot, to close the gap, but also allowed him to defend. Andrade does the same. He throws that loopy right. It would catch Bute time after time. Bute HATES pressure - watch him against Joppy, rounds 3-4. After that loopy right, Andrade would follow up with relentless pressure on the inside. He'd just keep on moving forward. Bute doesn't have the power to keep him at bay. He doesn't have a good jab to keep him away either. He'd have to move and box, from the outside. But Andrade would keep coming! He has great stamina and workrate. Bute likes to have a break, assess the situation, throw a weak jab to draw his opponent in, etc. He wouldn't get to do that against Andrade. Andrade has a great chin and is very solid to the body, so Bute couldn't hurt him. Inside, Andrade would use uppercuts. They get through against Bute - Bute's defence ain't that good. If Bute went for the clinch, Andrade would work the body, relentlessly. Andrade packs quite a punch!

To win, Bute would need to move very well, constantly, and box from the outside. He'd have to come in with a very good jab too. He'd also have to fight more. This would tire him out. His stamina would have to be great too. Andrade won't give up! He'll keep throwing, coming, hitting...Very hard fight for Bute. Andrade's style is perfect against Bute's, not just because of the loopy right, but also because of pressure and workrate and the fact Andrade is very solid. Not least, Andrade is training with Grant now, who's improving his boxing a lot. He is becoming more precise, his footwork is improving, he throws more effective combos...

Andrade is a solid B with a great style advantage over Bute, who is just slightly better. Won't be surprised at all if Andrade wins this...

[Decebal]

IMO Bute has a very good chance against anyone 175lb or less

Unless they bring pressure, a good punch, relentless workrate and a solid chin...like Andrade, Johnson...

[Samurai]

Decebal, I'm quite surprised by you.

[Decebal]

Decebal, I'm quite surprised by you.

Why, thank you!:good

[cuchulain]

Decebal, I'm quite surprised by you.


Me too. I briefly speculated that someone had hijacked his account.

The writing style is Decebal's but the sentiments expressed are a little unDecibalesque.

[ralphc]

This fight is actually very easy to pick.


Yes, this is a very easy pick. Dawson will give him a boxing lesson, and give the fans a display of expertise that they will not appreciate.

If you want an exciting fan friendly fight you have to match guys like Pavlik with Diaconu. It will be a demolition derby while it lasts.

[Decebal]

IF Kelly doesn't brawl with Johnson, he improves his chances significantly, to the point where he might have a slight edge. But I still see this as a brawl, ending before 6. (BTW, there was nothing much wrong with Glenn's workrate last time out.)



I definitely don't agree there. Maybe we mean different things by 'suspect'. What I mean by suspect is that if he takes a good flush punch, he will go down. And if Taylor had just slightly better finishing skills , or had remained more composed, Kelly was a whisker away from exposing himself (and by extension, Miranda) in under four minutes of the first fight.

Jaw is suspect !




Can't say for sure. i can say that Edison's power is somewhat overrated, IMO. Watch his fight with Abraham.


If Kelly were to build up, he might be as big as Chad, but right now, I think Chad is bigger (and more skilled).

Why would Pavlik brawl with Johnson? Neither are natural brawlers. Taylor made Pavlik brawl, remember? Johnson doesn't have the stamina and workrate, nor the style to brawl. Pavlik would use the jab to keep himself on the outside and hit Johnson with the right. Fairly wide UD. That punch from Taylor would have put almost everyone down. Miranda also packs quite a punch, you know... If Dawson came in to brawl, Pavlik would nail him. Dawson has NO head movement and stands there to be hit, quite often. Pavlik doesn't need a great chin not to be hurt by Dawson. Dawson's power is really nothing to write hime about. He is effective because of speed, workrate and precision punching combos, not because of power. Very unlikely that Dawson would put Pavlik down. In any case, he couldn't finish him. Pavlik would definitely finish Dawson once he would get him in trouble.

[Decebal]

Yes, this is a very easy pick. Dawson will give him a boxing lesson, and give the fans a display of expertise that they will not appreciate.

If you want an exciting fan friendly fight you have to match guys like Pavlik with Diaconu. It will be a demolition derby while it lasts.

:lol:

Here we go again.

I'll give you credit for overrating Dawson and putting Diaconu down in the same post, even though this fight has nothing to do with Diaconu.:yep

[cuchulain]

Why would Pavlik brawl with Johnson? Neither are natural brawlers. Taylor made Pavlik brawl, remember? Johnson doesn't have the stamina and workrate, nor the style to brawl. Pavlik would use the jab to keep himself on the outside and hit Johnson with the right. Fairly wide UD. That punch from Taylor would have put almost everyone down. Miranda also packs quite a punch, you know... If Dawson came in to brawl, Pavlik would nail him. Dawson has NO head movement and stands there to be hit, quite often. Pavlik doesn't need a great chin not to be hurt by Dawson. Dawson's power is really nothing to write hime about. He is effective because of speed, workrate and precision punching combos, not because of power. Very unlikely that Dawson would put Pavlik down. In any case, he couldn't finish him. Pavlik would definitely finish Dawson once he would get him in trouble.

We're going around in circles here, dude.

We'll leave here.

To paraphrase Yogi Berra:

Predictin' is a risky business, especially if it's about the future !

[Decebal]

We're going around in circles here, dude.

We'll leave here.

To paraphrase Yogi Berra:

Predictin' is a risky business, especially if it's about the future !

:lol: :good

Yeah...we cannot agree on a couple of things:

1. Dawson's tactical discipline/decision-making
2. Dawson's chin and power
3. Dawson's concentration/mental strength
4. Pavlik's equivalents/

Hopefully we'll get these answers soon.:good

[ralphc]

:lol:

Here we go again.

I'll give you credit for overrating Dawson and putting Diaconu down in the same post, even though this fight has nothing to do with Diaconu.:yep


It is not always certain who will win when two punchers enter the ring. However, it is certain it will be exciting while it lasts. Dawson, a pure boxer, was silly enough to try to slug it out with Johnson. He would never make that mistake with punchers like Pavlik or Diaconu.

[bryceda511]

I don't see how Pavlik would dominate a man 2 full weight classes above him. If its that easy why is he starving himself to make middle weight. The more i read these post on this sight the more i realize most of the people here don't really box at all. Some of these post are just retarded

[MSTR]

Precisely. Pavlik couldn't lose this one...simply couldn't lose!

Jab would find Dawson all night; his right cross would make a hole in Dawson's head. Dawson's pitter-patter would just tickle Pavlik and if he tried to brawl, Pavlik would stop him even faster.

Yeah, Pavlik doesn't have great angles, footwork, defence or that much speed. But that very good one-two and just slightly less than very good chin would be enough to stop Dawson with.:good

Of couse, styles make fights. Calzaghe would have a harder time against Dawson than against Pavlik. Higher chance of stopping Dawson though...But that doesn't mean Pavlik wouldn't beat Dawson...

:patsch:patsch:patsch

This forum is going to the shitter.

[Samurai]

:patsch:patsch:patsch

This forum is going to the shitter.

lol that makes two of us bro. Coudln't believe my eyes when I saw how badly Dawson is getting owned in this poll.

[Caliboxing]

It is not always certain who will win when two punchers enter the ring. However, it is certain it will be exciting while it lasts. Dawson, a pure boxer, was silly enough to try to slug it out with Johnson. He would never make that mistake with punchers like Pavlik or Diaconu.



It's not that simple. Johnson took the fight to Dawson and eventually Dawson had to slug it out because he couldn't move away the entire fight. Pavlik will get to Dawson at some point in the fight just like Johnson did.

[Fab2333]

I got dawson by Ko or UD. Dont know wat yall are talkin about. If jermain taylor was able 2 catch him and almost ko him in one fight. then in the 2nd fight land shots on him the way he did. You think dawson who is the more skilled fighter wouldnt b able 2 land on him or potentially ko pavlik. 6 months 2 get ready, i think dawson would train 2 b weary of pavliks right hand,, other than that wat else he needs to worry. Pavlik not outboxing him. All dawson g2 do is b conceous of the right hand and he is str8.

[Decebal]

:patsch:patsch:patsch

This forum is going to the shitter.

Tell me how you really feel.:D

And, whilst you're at it - throw in an analysis too, please!:good

[Decebal]

Amsterdam is conspicuous with his absence from this thread.:?

[Hermit]

Amsterdam is conspicuous with his absence from this thread.:?

Are you two having a tiff? :lol:

[Decebal]

Are you two having a tiff? :lol:

:huh

Am curious to hear his view. Very curious. He might just surprise quite a few people with his answer. Good analyst, you know - Amsterdam! He's also not afraid to swim against the current.:yep

[RealIzm]

Pavlik destroys the china chinned, furcoat wearing faggot of a farce:yep

[ralphc]

It's not that simple. Johnson took the fight to Dawson and eventually Dawson had to slug it out because he couldn't move away the entire fight. Pavlik will get to Dawson at some point in the fight just like Johnson did.


Is that the same Johnson who was embarrassed by Tarver and knocked out by Hopkins? :huh

[Decebal]

Any more analysis/views?:?

[huki]

Pavlik destroys the china chinned, furcoat wearing faggot of a farce:yep Hey, I forgot, you're supposed to be wearing my avatar for a month. Good thing you insulted Dawson again and reminded me.

Here you go:

972

[Decebal]

Hey, I forgot, you're supposed to be wearing my avatar for a month. Good thing you insulted Dawson again and reminded me.

Here you go:

972

:lol:

[Caliboxing]

Is that the same Johnson who was embarrassed by Tarver and knocked out by Hopkins? :huh


Johnson didn't get embarrassed by Tarver, they were close fights and Hopking was probably at his peak when he stopped him. Dawson on the other hand, struggled with Johnson and he was the much younger man.

[Decebal]

Bumped for Amsterdam!:D

[Biff_McBiff]

Precisely. Pavlik couldn't lose this one...simply couldn't lose!

Jab would find Dawson all night; his right cross would make a hole in Dawson's head. Dawson's pitter-patter would just tickle Pavlik and if he tried to brawl, Pavlik would stop him even faster.

Yeah, Pavlik doesn't have great angles, footwork, defence or that much speed. But that very good one-two and just slightly less than very good chin would be enough to stop Dawson with.:good

Of couse, styles make fights. Calzaghe would have a harder time against Dawson than against Pavlik. Higher chance of stopping Dawson though...But that doesn't mean Pavlik wouldn't beat Dawson...

You're kidding, right?

Dawson would win in a lopsided UD and Pavlik would be on the recieving end of a RED-HEADED STEP-CHILD BEAT DOWN for the ages.

Dawson's superior athleticism and boxing skills would BUST PAVLIK UP and expose his limitations as a fighter. Granted, Pavlik is tough and he walks through smaller guys, but he'll find the going a lot tougher against Dawson. What is Pavlik going to do after he gets pounded by yet another five punch combination as he lurches around trying to find Dawson. Keep coming forward....keep coming forward...keep c....WHAT? WAS THAT A WHITE TOWEL?

Dawson's got the advantage in size, strength, handspeed, footwork, and ability to throw an array of combinations that would make this fight difficult to watch if you're a Pavlik fan. It's not even close.

Pavlik's style is perfect for Dawson. BAD CHAD would catch the plodding and predictable Pavlik on the way in so many times, and in so many different ways that Pavlik will be flinching in his sleep for years to come.

[Decebal]

You're kidding, right?

Dawson would win in a lopsided UD and Pavlik would be on the recieving end of a RED-HEADED STEP-CHILD BEAT DOWN for the ages.

Dawson's superior athleticism and boxing skills would BUST PAVLIK UP and expose his limitations as a fighter. Granted, Pavlik is tough and he walks through smaller guys, but he'll find the going a lot tougher against Dawson. What is Pavlik going to do after he gets pounded by yet another five punch combination as he lurches around trying to find Dawson. Keep coming forward....keep coming forward...keep c....WHAT? WAS THAT A WHITE TOWEL?

Dawson's got the advantage in size, strength, handspeed, footwork, and ability to throw an array of combinations that would make this fight difficult to watch if you're a Pavlik fan. It's not even close.

Pavlik's style is perfect for Dawson. BAD CHAD would catch the the plodding and predictable Pavlik on the way in so many times, and in so many different ways that Pavlik will be flinching in his sleep for years to come.

Not kidding!:bart

[Decebal]

Bumped for Amsterdam!:D

Go on, mate! What's your analysis?:?

[Amsterdam]

Precisely. Pavlik couldn't lose this one...simply couldn't lose!

Jab would find Dawson all night; his right cross would make a hole in Dawson's head. Dawson's pitter-patter would just tickle Pavlik and if he tried to brawl, Pavlik would stop him even faster.

Yeah, Pavlik doesn't have great angles, footwork, defence or that much speed. But that very good one-two and just slightly less than very good chin would be enough to stop Dawson with.:good

Of couse, styles make fights. Calzaghe would have a harder time against Dawson than against Pavlik. Higher chance of stopping Dawson though...But that doesn't mean Pavlik wouldn't beat Dawson...

:rofl

First of all, Dawson doesn't throw pitter patter, he throws full power shots that had plenty of effect on most of the guys he fought, just not iron man Glen Johnson.

2nd of all, Pavlik had all he could handle from a limited fighter like Jermain Taylor, Dawson is slicker, faster, more powerful, larger and MUCH, MUCH more ACCURATE.

Dawson TKO 4-5, easy pick.

Pavlik's chin is a vulnerability and his jab and right hand would NOT find Dawson at will. Glen was only able to get inside because of the fact that he could keep coming forward, which goes back to his experience and his incredible punch resistence... Glen's never even been down in a fight legitimately, was kind of tripped vs. Sheika, a guy who hit pretty damn hard at his best.

Dawson's jab is fantastic, vastly superior to Taylors. It's more accurate, has more snap and has more length.

Pavlik is a horrible in fighter, Johnson is a great in fighter. Pavlik likes to keep range, either full range or mid range and get leverage on his blows, this plays right into Dawson's sharp shooter style. Plus mate, Pavlik is fucking slow, plods around and has bad footwork, he lacks the mobility to corner Dawson.....



Pavlik is by no means an A level fighter, which is what you have to be to beat Dawson. Why so high on Pavlik all of the sudden? Do you think Pavlik even hits as hard as Johnson does seated at 175? Nah.

I thought we were once discussing how Bute even has a great chance to beat Pavlik, much less Dawson, who's a level up.

[Amsterdam]

I can't believe the lack of accurate analysis in this thread. Dawson is much bigger than Kelly he's been fighting at 175 for christ sake he could deal with Kelly's power. What would be the real test is could Kelly deal with Dawson's power. Kelly was hurt badly against Taylor and no way in hell does he come close to Chad's power. People are so quick to look at things like power but overlook things like southapw stance, footwork, speed, jab and accuracy. Kelly's footwork is poor and against someone like Dawson he would have to reset every time in order to get off, not to mention he can't fight backing up which he will be doing alot of against Chad. I see Dawson working from his southpaw stance using an educated workrate, his superior jab and footwork to contol this fight from a distance also when he needs to mix it up I see him getting the best of kelly in the exchanges with his superior combo punching. This fight isn't even close and Kelly gets a boxing lesson from a much more complete fighter and losses by wide UD. This would be the first time he'd be in the ring with someone who is bigger and stronger than he is. and it would give him fits.

No shit brother, I can't even stress the difference in level between Dawson and the MW crop that pavlik's been fighting.

[Decebal]

:rofl

First of all, Dawson doesn't throw pitter patter, he throws full power shots that had plenty of effect on most of the guys he fought, just not iron man Glen Johnson.

2nd of all, Pavlik had all he could handle from a limited fighter like Jermain Taylor, Dawson is slicker, faster, more powerful, larger and MUCH, MUCH more ACCURATE.

Dawson TKO 4-5, easy pick.

Pavlik's chin is a vulnerability and his jab and right hand would NOT find Dawson at will. Glen was only able to get inside because of the fact that he could keep coming forward, which goes back to his experience and his incredible punch resistence... Glen's never even been down in a fight legitimately, was kind of tripped vs. Sheika, a guy who hit pretty damn hard at his best.

Dawson's jab is fantastic, vastly superior to Taylors. It's more accurate, has more snap and has more length.

Pavlik is a horrible in fighter, Johnson is a great in fighter. Pavlik likes to keep range, either full range or mid range and get leverage on his blows, this plays right into Dawson's sharp shooter style. Plus mate, Pavlik is fucking slow, plods around and has bad footwork, he lacks the mobility to corner Dawson.....



Pavlik is by no means an A level fighter, which is what you have to be to beat Dawson. Why so high on Pavlik all of the sudden? Do you think Pavlik even hits as hard as Johnson does seated at 175? Nah.

I thought we were once discussing how Bute even has a great chance to beat Pavlik, much less Dawson, who's a level up.

Dawson is A- for 3-4 rounds. Then he goes back to B/B+. Sometimes, he even goes down to B-. He stands there, within range, not throwing and not moving his head, to be hit at will, repeatedly!!! WTF???

Pavlik would be outboxed and even embarrassed for the first couple of rounds, but not hurt. Taylor's swings that hit had more power than Dawson's "power shots":lol: . At 168, Pavlik's chin would be better too, because he wouldn't be killing himself to make weight so much. He wouldn't be so dehydrated. His power would increase and that right of his is bound to find its mark on Dawson's chin. He would stun Dawson and having done so, he'd finish him. Dawson doesn't have to be A- or even B+ to do the job. His style allows him, a B to B+, to find the mark when Dawson loses the plot as he is bound to do and his finishing skills are good enough to finish the job.

NO WAY does Dawson stop him before half-time. Not unless one of his wild swings hits flush and he jumps a dazed Pavlik...

[See Me Flow]

Dawson.

[168 lbs]

I figure Pavlik has the right stuff to sink Dawson. He ain't too small if he takes his time going up in weight.

[Biff_McBiff]

Dawson is A- for 3-4 rounds. Then he goes back to B/B+. Sometimes, he even goes down to B-. He stands there, within range, not throwing and not moving his head, to be hit at will, repeatedly!!! WTF???

Pavlik would be outboxed and even embarrassed for the first couple of rounds, but not hurt. Taylor's swings that hit had more power than Dawson's "power shots":lol: . At 168, Pavlik's chin would be better too, because he wouldn't be killing himself to make weight so much. He wouldn't be so dehydrated. His power would increase and that right of his is bound to find its mark on Dawson's chin. He would stun Dawson and having done so, he'd finish him. Dawson doesn't have to be A- or even B+ to do the job. His style allows him, a B to B+, to find the mark when Dawson loses the plot as he is bound to do and his finishing skills are good enough to finish the job.

NO WAY does Dawson stop him before half-time. Not unless one of his wild swings hits flush and he jumps a dazed Pavlik...

The only thing worse than Decebal's boxing analysis is his laughable grasp of anatomy and physiology.

Since you seem to have a penchant for grading; Boxing Analysis, D+; Anatomy and Physiology, F.

Please cite for the class the scientific evidence that supports your absurd assumption that a middleweight fighters chin improves as he moves up in weight class to 168. According to your magical thinking, Pavlik should move up to heavyweight where he would be absolutely unstoppable.

Also, could you please point to human physiology studies that support your weight/dehydration/power-punching nexus.

The only semi-plausible sentence, "Pavlik would be outboxed and even embarrassed...." trailed off into flawed analysis based on voodoo science assuming Pavliks chin would transform into granite and his punching power become that of King Kong's due to that mysteriously potent eight pound weight gain.

The second round of the first Taylor/Pavlik fight wasn't due to dehydration, and eight pounds isn't going to substantially improve Pavlik's chin, strength, speed, footwork, or boxing skills.

Granted, Dawson lost focus and wilted in the late rounds of the Johnson fight and was legitimately hurt in round ten, but to assume Pavlik could or would be as successful as Johnson in pressuring or breaking down Dawson is stretch, at best. I could speculate that Dawson would knock Pavlik out within four rounds based on the first Taylor/Pavlik fight. But even if he doesn't, based on pure athleticism and boxing skill, this fight would not even be close.

One thing Chad Dawson has done in his short career is learn, improve, and develop new skills each time out.

[pipe wrenched]

I can not give a subjective throw down on this, both are in my top favorite list. Amusing thread though to say the least.

[Decebal]

I can not give a subjective throw down on this, both are in my top favorite list. Amusing thread though to say the least.

You like Dawson? Why?

He is a very different type of man from Kelly.

[pipe wrenched]

You like Dawson? Why?

He is a very different type of man from Kelly.

He's been fun to be a fan of, I guess. The only other fighter I really like that's in the mold of Kelly is maybe Cotto, KO machine. I also like PBF, Bute (lots of KO's there too though). Sometimes it's most fun to follow fighters where there is certain to be DRAMA. Like Chad against Johnson, it has you shittin your pants, then they come thru and you like them that much more. Pavlik/Taylor round 2, I'm lucky the neighbors didn't call the Police for my hell raising at home, screaming "Clinch!!!, throw a effin punch or the ref is gonna stop it!!!!!!, DAMN!!!!,. Then to have them regain and come thru, it's ultimate rollercoaster ride.:good

Shit brother, Zabdiel Judah is on my favorite to watch list too. lol.

[Decebal]

He's been fun to be a fan of, I guess. The only other fighter I really like that's in the mold of Kelly is maybe Cotto, KO machine. I also like PBF, Bute (lots of KO's there too though). Sometimes it's most fun to follow fighters where there is certain to be DRAMA. Like Chad against Johnson, it has you shittin your pants, then they come thru and you like them that much more. Pavlik/Taylor round 2, I'm lucky the neighbors didn't call the Police for my hell raising at home, screaming "Clinch!!!, throw a effin punch or the ref is gonna stop it!!!!!!, DAMN!!!!,. Then to have them regain and come thru, it's ultimate rollercoaster ride.:good

Shit brother, Zabdiel Judah is on my favorite to watch list too. lol.

I like Zab too - he fight the best - he has balls.

[pipe wrenched]

I like Zab too - he fight the best - he has balls.

I did read, though, your posts on Dawson's tactics involving the Diaconu fight, and must admit I wasn't aware of most of those things. The only thing I'd read about was the "Camping outside Sulaiman's place" debacle.

[madpup]

I think it is very hard to pick. Dawson should be able to outbox Pavlik, but he has to maintain his concentration for 12 rounds. Pavlik seems a fantastic finisher, I am not sure he would let Dawson get off the hook the same way that Johnson did.

[168 lbs]

Some here even say Dawson's gonna win by T-K-O. Youthful exuberance, I say.

[Wit Tank]

Dawson by clear ud. Waaaay too fast for Pavlik. Dawson is understandably getting some flack for a close run thing against Johnson.
Surprised at how many people have voted for KP actually.:think

[11player]

Not happening at 168, too pushy for Dawson. Pavlik would have to go all the way up to 175lbs for this fight.

[Biff_McBiff]

You like Dawson? Why?

He is a very different type of man from Kelly.

Yup.

He sure is. Dawson's got SKILLS.

[Decebal]

Yup.

He sure is. Dawson's got SKILLS.

Yeah...he'd be a great amateur!:yep

[Biff_McBiff]

Yeah...he'd be a great amateur!:yep

Clearly you are from the tragically romanticized Rocky Balboa tough-guy school of boxing that values intangibles like "testicular fortitude" and "irreversable brain damage", over superior athleticism and boxing skill.

The point of boxing is to hit, and not be hit.

Still waiting on your evidence supporting that earlier pseudo-scientific nonsense masquerading as conventional wisdom and boxing analysis. Oh, that's right, there is none.

Never mind.

[Samurai]

Some here even say Dawson's gonna win by T-K-O. Youthful exuberance, I say.

What's wrong with that? :huh

[Decebal]

Clearly you are from the tragically romanticized Rocky Balboa tough-guy school of boxing that values intangibles like "testicular fortitude" and "irreversable brain damage", over superior athleticism and boxing skill.

The point of boxing is to hit, and not be hit.

Still waiting on your evidence supporting that earlier pseudo-scientific nonsense masquerading as conventional wisdom and boxing analysis. Oh, that's right, there is none.

Never mind.

To me, the point of pro boxing is to hurt and not get hurt. If I wanted "hit and not get hit", I'd watch amateur boxing or...fencing...:smooch

You might not be aware of this, but if you're dehydrated, the concentration of the fluid surrounding the brain increases. The greater the concentration, the greater the damage to the brain when you get hit on the head. The greater the damage to the brain, the harder it is for you to make the count when you get buzzed. The better hydrated you are, the better the punch you can take without going donw/out.

Now, it's common knowledge that Pavlik is killing himself to make weight. He needs to dehydrate quite a lot to do so. Even if he rehydrates after the weigh-in, he still cannot do so sufficiently to take that punch as well as he could. If he fought at 168, he'd have to dehydrate less to make weight and he could take a better punch.

I hope that wasn't too hard for you to follow. If it was, don't worry. Just take my word for it!:hi:

[RealIzm]

Pavlik is worlds better than the hypejob and would expose, stalk, and pummel the faggot...Dawson would get ruined. Pavlik has ruined better chins:deal

[Decebal]

Pavlik is worlds better than the hypejob and would expose, stalk, and pummel the faggot...Dawson would get ruined. Pavlik has ruined better chins:deal

Yeah...this is about power/chin to me, because Pavlik would definitely land that right hand.

[Axe]

Dawson can't make 168 anymore, so this question is a moot one.

At 175 or a catchweight (say 172) Dawson UD12 Pavlik.

[Decebal]

Dawson can't make 168 anymore, so this question is a moot one.

At 175 or a catchweight (say 172) Dawson UD12 Pavlik.

He can make 168...he has to build up for LHW; he said HIMSELF recently he can easily make 168...:deal

[Axe]

He can make 168...he has to build up for LHW; he said HIMSELF recently he can easily make 168...:deal

Really? Please show me the quote.

I know for a fact that since before the Harding fight his team had stated 168 was too big a drain for him, hence why he stayed there for a total of ~2 fights.

They have also said Dawson will eventually move up from 175.

[RealIzm]

Yeah...this is about power/chin to me, because Pavlik would definitely land that right hand.Exactly:good that right hand would land over, and over and over......
Honestly Decebal I feel Diaconu would have a better chance at beating Dawson than Pavlik....my reasons are based on style...lets compare
Pavlik is a bit easier to hit than Diaconu who is short and bends, dips, and weaves to make himself even more difficult to hit...Pavlik does a good job of slipping punches he's just more upright
Ring Generalship is about even for me
Stamina goes to Pavlik
Power goes to Diaconu however this is a bit decieving as Pavliks straighter punches don't need Diaconu level power to put his opponent out
Pavlik is abit more predictable than Diaconu who is random and calculated...Pavlik is pretty basic: jab, jab, straight, jab, jab, straight
Diaconu is more like Tszyu, Mosley, Tua, or Tyson
Based on these factors I like Diaconu beating Dawson more than Pavlik
Not saying Pavlik couldnt do it, he would just have a tougher time:good
Cheers

[Decebal]

Really? Please show me the quote.

I know for a fact that since before the Harding fight his team had stated 168 was too big a drain for him, hence why he stayed there for a total of ~2 fights.

They have also said Dawson will eventually move up from 175.

Chad Dawson, April 2008: "I definitely want to unify the titles at 175 but I can also still make 168 so I could also look at going down there and fighting for a title. I’m always looking to unify titles but I want big fights now. I want to fight guys like Roy Jones Jr., Antonio Tarver, guys like that who are still hanging around, even Joe Calzaghe, that would be a big fight for me too."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[RealIzm]

Chad Dawson, April 2008: "I definitely want to unify the titles at 175 but I can also still make 168 so I could also look at going down there and fighting for a title. I’m always looking to unify titles but I want big fights now. I want to fight guys like Roy Jones Jr., Antonio Tarver, guys like that who are still hanging around, even Joe Calzaghe, that would be a big fight for me too."

[Only registered and activated users can see links] another way of saying "I'll take the path of least resistance, beat up old champs on the brink of Social Security."

[Axe]

Chad Dawson, April 2008: "I definitely want to unify the titles at 175 but I can also still make 168 so I could also look at going down there and fighting for a title. I’m always looking to unify titles but I want big fights now. I want to fight guys like Roy Jones Jr., Antonio Tarver, guys like that who are still hanging around, even Joe Calzaghe, that would be a big fight for me too."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Well in that case I stand corrected.

Imo he would be drained at 168, as his team have said. Perhaps this was said to get the ball rolling for a megafight with Calzaghe. :think

[Decebal]

Well in that case I stand corrected.

Imo he would be drained at 168, as his team have said. Perhaps this was said to get the ball rolling for a megafight with Calzaghe. :think

No...he is not a natural LHW; his ideal weight is 168 but there's better risk/reward fights for him at 175 right now.

[Samurai]

It's disgusting how badly Pavlik is winning this poll

[Decebal]

It's disgusting how badly Pavlik is winning this poll

It's not...people are realising that Pavlik is strong enough to last enough to buzz and finish Dawson's shakey chin, that's all.:good

[teke]

Really? Please show me the quote.

I know for a fact that since before the Harding fight his team had stated 168 was too big a drain for him, hence why he stayed there for a total of ~2 fights.

They have also said Dawson will eventually move up from 175.Yeah i dont think that Dawson will stay at 175 for too long, he has a big frame that needs filling out.

[teke]

It's not...people are realising that Pavlik is strong enough to last enough to buzz and finish Dawson's shakey chin, that's all.:goodStrength will get you only so far until that skilled opponent shows you

[Samurai]

But can he get there? Dawson isn't the most defensively sound fighter but I can easily see his speed offsetting Pavlik's rhythm to throw punches.

Johnson was able to have success because he is relentless and is always in your face. Pavlik is not like that.

[Decebal]

Thats another way of saying "I'll take the path of least resistance, beat up old champs on the brink of Social Security."

His style of fighting and the way his fights are scored give him a great chance against anyone, if he survives 12 rounds. The older fighters might hit him with more effective hits, but they're not going to match him in the pitter-patter department...

[Decebal]

But can he get there? Dawson isn't the most defensively sound fighter but I can easily see his speed offsetting Pavlik's rhythm to throw punches.

Johnson was able to have success because he is relentless and is always in your face. Pavlik is not like that.

He'll outbox him for 4-5 rounds, making him look like shit. The point is that he doesn't have the power to hurt him. After those first rounds, he'll slow down and get tagged. Pavlik has what it takes to buzz him and finish him. You don't have to be relentless to tag him. You have to be able to land a good enough right a couple of times. This is precisely what Pavlik can do. Dawson just doesn't do head movement.

[Samurai]

He'll outbox him for 4-5 rounds, making him look like shit. The point is that he doesn't have the power to hurt him. After those first rounds, he'll slow down and get tagged. Pavlik has what it takes to buzz him and finish him. You don't have to be relentless to tag him. You have to be able to land a good enough right a couple of times. This is precisely what Pavlik can do. Dawson just doesn't do head movement.

Dawson can punch, I don't know where you get this idea he's featherfisted. There's NO way Pavlik is going to just walk him down and not respect his power. Hell, he respected Taylor's.

Pavlik is not that defensively sound either, if Dawson is landing combo's on him the way he was Adamek..things could get extremely ugly.

[RealIzm]

His style of fighting and the way his fights are scored give him a great chance against anyone, if he survives 12 rounds. The older fighters might hit him with more effective hits, but they're not going to match him in the pitter-patter department...IF he survives 12 rounds.....tick,tick,tick..booom and NEW champion Adrian Diaconu:fire
If I remember correctly Don King promised Adi's camp that the fight with Dawson would be in Romania...this talk of Dawson will cease soon enough

[Decebal]

Dawson can punch, I don't know where you get this idea he's featherfisted. There's NO way Pavlik is going to just walk him down and not respect his power. Hell, he respected Taylor's.

Pavlik is not that defensively sound either, if Dawson is landing combo's on him the way he was Adamek..things could get extremely ugly.

Who said he's featherfisted? Of course Pavlik's chin is not guaranteed to last 12 rounds against Dawson. But think about it...who has the better chin and more power? Pavlik wouldn't walk him down; he'd box as well as he could to survive the opening rounds, then he'd start setting up his right as Dawson slowed down and lost concentration and movement. He is BOUND to tag Dawson with that right. Once he does so, things would get extremely ugly.

Pavlik would get the job done before the last quarter...Dawson couldn't stop him in 9 rounds...

[Decebal]

IF he survives 12 rounds.....tick,tick,tick..booom and NEW champion Adrian Diaconu:fire
If I remember correctly Don King promised Adi's camp that the fight with Dawson would be in Romania...this talk of Dawson will cease soon enough

It doesn't matter where the fight is, to Diaconu. He HAS to knock Dawson out. The judges and ref don't really matter.