Why did Monzón only fight once in the US?

[wladsugar]

I'd like to know your take on this.

[Manassa]

Why did Ray Leonard only fight once outside the US? ;)

[teeto]

I'd like to know your take on this.
Dont know, his record is impeccable though

[Robbi]

I don't think Monzon's resume would have changed much if he had done. He got into the ring with some very good fighters in different countries. It's not as if he stayed at home and fought soley in Argentina.

Denmark, Italy, France, Monaco, United States. A bit of a nomad.

[mcvey]

I'd like to know your take on this.
ome advantage ,according to Emille Griffith.

[wladsugar]

Well, it's not like Monzón was afraid of anybody. Imv, he would have defeated anybody regardless of the country in which the match took place. So, why he did he only fight once in the US? Come on, i'm sure you have an informed opinion about this. Manassa, you sure do.

[red cobra]

I don't know, but I'm sure that he would have beaten anybody in whatever country he fought them in.

[salsanchezfan]

...............I'm sure it was money. He was very popular in France and Monte Carlo, and was paid far more handsomely than he could be expected to be paid here.

[JohnThomas1]

One wonders if he feared getting ripped off among the numerous other solid reasons?

[Smith]

He fought more times outside of his continent than most other ATG's.

[wladsugar]

...............I'm sure it was money. He was very popular in France and Monte Carlo, and was paid far more handsomely than he could be expected to be paid here.

I agree. I wonder if this could have to do with Carlos' style, Carlos wasn't flashy or a knockout artist. Do you think that this could have something to do with the lack of interest with Monzón in the US? i read somewhere that his fight vs Licata didn't leave a good impression (understandbly so), but it wasn't Monzon's fault IMO.

[Mantequilla]

Most of the best middleweights were not american.

[My dinner with Conteh]

ome advantage ,according to Emille Griffith.


Yeah, it's unfair if when Americans or American based fighters have to go abroad isn't it. It actually should be chalked off their record and listed as a No-Contest.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Also, between 1970 and 1977 many world title fights took place outside the US, even heavyweights (for a welcome change). I think in 1974 there was only two or three world title fights in America. Some other years weren't too far behind either.

[salsanchezfan]

I agree. I wonder if this could have to do with Carlos' style, Carlos wasn't flashy or a knockout artist. Do you think that this could have something to do with the lack of interest with Monzón in the US? i read somewhere that his fight vs Licata didn't leave a good impression (understandbly so), but it wasn't Monzon's fault IMO.


...........For a while, I considered making a thead about this very subject, the "American" preference for a certain style versus the european style, which is more of what Monzon exhibited. In the end I thought better of it, because the lines of regional styles have become so dimmed over the years it doesn't really hold true any more.

Europeans seemed to appreciate more of the technical aspects of a fight, and would politely applaud a nice spin move off the ropes, for example. A "typical european fighter" would try merely to outscore his opponent the way a chess player might play for a pawn advantage. By contrast, American fighters seemed to exhibit the attitude of a boxing match as war played out on the canvas, as the fans demanded.

[kenmore]

If you look at Monzon's title defense record, you'll see he fought mostly in Europe while champion.

Like any other big name boxer, Monzon fought for whoever gave him the biggest paydays. My guess is that American promoters didn't give Monzon the big money he wanted, so he signed with foreign promotional outfits.

The real question, perhaps, is why didn't American promoters offer Monzon the big paydays. Maybe the American promoters felt Monzon wasn't popular enough with American fans. I don't know.

Another thing to understand is that Argentine boxers fight most of their early and mid-stage careers in their home country. They almost never fight abroad until they surface as top contenders. This would explain why Monzon fought 80 or so fights in Argentina before the rest of the world got to see him.

[My dinner with Conteh]

...........For a while, I considered making a thead about this very subject, the "American" preference for a certain style versus the european style, which is more of what Monzon exhibited. In the end I thought better of it, because the lines of regional styles have become so dimmed over the years it doesn't really hold true any more.

Europeans seemed to appreciate more of the technical aspects of a fight, and would politely applaud a nice spin move off the ropes, for example. A "typical european fighter" would try merely to outscore his opponent the way a chess player might play for a pawn advantage. By contrast, American fighters seemed to exhibit the attitude of a boxing match as war played out on the canvas, as the fans demanded.



Good post. But I think it's more of a cultural thing, Euro fighters learn the stand-up style from a young age and it's often ingrained on their psyche. Most of us watching love a tear-up much more than a chess match. Who wants to see Joe Bugner when you can have Nigel Benn?

[Hank]

Monzon and Griffith were both popular in Europe, and both were paid more to fight there. If Monzon had offers from United States that were as high or higher than ones in Europe, he would have fought here more.

[salsanchezfan]

Good post. But I think it's more of a cultural thing, Euro fighters learn the stand-up style from a young age and it's often ingrained on their psyche. Most of us watching love a tear-up much more than a chess match. Who wants to see Joe Bugner when you can have Nigel Benn?


.........Agreed. I've been trying to pinpoint when the shift occurred, the point where euros started fighting like.........well, like Americans. Not sure what the impetus was there, but from memory it seemed to start around the time Nigel Benn started hitting the big time. It wasn't Bruno, I know that.

[Russell]

He was comfortable on or near his native soil?

That hasn't changed even today. Many fighters underperform away from home.

[enquirer]

How can a fighter be comfortable fighting in italy when his home is thousands of miles away in argentina?

Carlos fought a great deal of his title bouts away from home so its obvious he was comfortable away from home.
To be honest its most of the yanks who seem to have a problem even making a fight abroad,never mind sucessfully.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yeah, Monzon was a real homer. 15 world title fights, 3 in Argentina :roll: . Compare that with a real road warrrior like Hagler: 15 world title fights also: 13 in the USA. Monzon: what a fraud.

[My dinner with Conteh]

.........Agreed. I've been trying to pinpoint when the shift occurred, the point where euros started fighting like.........well, like Americans. Not sure what the impetus was there, but from memory it seemed to start around the time Nigel Benn started hitting the big time. It wasn't Bruno, I know that.


Honeyghan before him. But definitely around that era. Sibbo was hell-for-leather, but he was never champ of course.

[mcvey]

Yeah, it's unfair if when Americans or American based fighters have to go abroad isn't it. It actually should be chalked off their record and listed as a No-Contest.
Don't tell me tell Griffith ,who was from the VirginIslands actually.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Don't tell me tell Griffith ,who was from the VirginIslands actually.


That's why I said "...and american based". Monzon beat him in two different continents anyway. Incredibly bad loser Griffith, which was surprising considering what a decent chap he was. Then again, anyone with Clancy would turn into a whiner themselves. So you could hardly blame him.

[kenmore]

I'm certain that the answer to this question is economic and market based. Monzon won the championship in Europe from a wildly popular European fighter...right then and there he would have established himself as a hot-sell on the European promotional market.

Further, many of the leading middleweights of Monzon's day were Europeans, such as Jean-Claude Bouttier, Tom Boggs, Gratien Tonna and others. Therefore it only makes sense that Monzon's fights with these guys were held in Europe.

I know that throughout the 1970s Monzon became something of a pop hero in Europe also. Papparzi from Paris Match and other tabloids were always following him. Hence, Europe, not America, was Monzon's boxing turf.

[Longhhorn71]

All good info by the posters' above.

Another sidelight is a lot of those Monzon European fights were shown on CBS & ABC Sat. & Sunday afternoon sports shows, and with the 6 hour time difference, the European night fights were afternoon times to us in the USA.

[Seamus]

In the 1970's, the vast majority of title holders came from outside the US, ergo, beyond the aging Ali, the US market was not that much a major component to the profitable angle of the sport.

Funny how history repeats itself.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Also, when the top American middleweights were in line for a shot they invariably lost. Watts entered the top 10 as early as 1972 when he was mashed by Don Cobbs, Monroe was top 3 in many rankings when he Love hit him on the kisser and wrecked his plans. Vito: ranked #1 at 160 by Boxing Illustrated throughout 76 was then battered by Mo Hope. Each of them lost when the were in a position of a title challenge. Hagler lost two in 1976, one controversial, the other by a big margin. Colbert's team offered the Monzon camp a laughable purse to come to Oregon to fight their man but Carlos chose the easier pickings of Rodrigo Valdez instead. ;)


Uk fighters too blew their opportunities. Kevin Finnegan pencilled in for a shot in late 75 until he was defeated by Gracian Tonna, who himself received the shot. Minter was talked of a possible opponent before Carlos retired but was himself stopped by Ronnie Harris.

[markedwardscott]

He was probably worried about a home town decision in the US. Schmeling had his title robbed from him when he risked it in the US against Sharkey.