Sonny Liston in the second Ali fight...

[Russell]

Tex Cobb is known to of been heavily into cocaine, potentially ON it when he was knocked out in one round by a medicore puncher.

Could the knockdown in the second Ali fight be legitimate if Liston was on heroin at the time, which he very well could of been?

It's what killed him, supposedly.

Thoughts? Never heard this suggested before.

[Bokaj]

Yeah, if thought of it as well. But the man continued his pro career for another 4 years and only had one more loss, so his condition can't have been all that bad. He is an enigma, though.

[groove]

Liston was caught cold with a punch he never saw. He was coming in to the punch off-balance when it landed and he hit the canvas. Whatever happened after is upto speculation. End off..........And remember Liston was intimidated by Ali in the 2nd fight.... Ali was intimidated in the 1st fight until he realized he had his number. Liston, Louis, Marciano never fought a fighter who could move as good or as fast as Ali. He was on another level - 60s version compared to anyone they fought.

[jonesjrp4p1]

Liston was caught cold with a punch he never saw. He was coming in to the punch off-balance when it landed and he hit the canvas. Whatever happened after is upto speculation. End off..........And remember Liston was intimidated by Ali in the 2nd fight.... Ali was intimidated in the 1st fight until he realized he had his number. Liston, Louis, Marciano never fought a fighter who could move as good or as fast as Ali. He was on another level - 60s version compared to anyone they fought.
i will never believe that the punch actually stopped liston. there was something more to it, russel ur point is possible but i have always bought into the dive

[Russell]

Liston was caught cold with a punch he never saw. He was coming in to the punch off-balance when it landed and he hit the canvas. Whatever happened after is upto speculation. End off..........And remember Liston was intimidated by Ali in the 2nd fight.... Ali was intimidated in the 1st fight until he realized he had his number. Liston, Louis, Marciano never fought a fighter who could move as good or as fast as Ali. He was on another level - 60s version compared to anyone they fought.

So blind.

[heerko koois]

that fight was a fix for sure...seen it many times

[My dinner with Conteh]

So blind.


Groove's whole post quota concerns licking Ali's balls, so nobody takes any notice of him. In fact, he must be the least read poster on this forum. As soon as anyone sees his name they just scroll down. I don't know why he bothers in all honesty.

[heerko koois]

Liston was caught cold with a punch he never saw. He was coming in to the punch off-balance when it landed and he hit the canvas. Whatever happened after is upto speculation. End off..........And remember Liston was intimidated by Ali in the 2nd fight.... Ali was intimidated in the 1st fight until he realized he had his number. Liston, Louis, Marciano never fought a fighter who could move as good or as fast as Ali. He was on another level - 60s version compared to anyone they fought. :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

[Minotauro]

I never believed that Liston did heroin, I know he liked his drink but apparently he was terrified of needle and none of his friends/wife said he had ever done heroin before.

[Bokaj]

Groove's whole post quota concerns licking Ali's balls, so nobody takes any notice of him. In fact, he must be the least read poster on this forum. As soon as anyone sees his name they just scroll down. I don't know why he bothers in all honesty.

I don't agree. Sure he is an Ali fan, as am I, but he's no more biased than any one else. He's not like the Liston fans who can't stomach that Liston got his ass handed to him by Ali, nor is he like the Frazier fans that have a hard time accepting Frazier's losses to Ali (even talking about bribed judges and all kind of nonsense) or the Tyson fans, that are in complete denial.

His big crime here is apparently that he don't believe the talk about fixes and conspiracies, and just take the fight at face value. Horrible.

[groove]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

check 2 mins onwards

[JohnThomas1]

Eadf73HJepk

check 2 mins onwards
.

[groove]

thanks John. Dunno why it didn't work?

[Vaile]

I don't agree. Sure he is an Ali fan, as am I, but he's no more biased than any one else. He's not like the Liston fans who can't stomach that Liston got his ass handed to him by Ali, nor is he like the Frazier fans that have a hard time accepting Frazier's losses to Ali (even talking about bribed judges and all kind of nonsense) or the Tyson fans, that are in complete denial.

His big crime here is apparently that he don't believe the talk about fixes and conspiracies, and just take the fight at face value. Horrible.


Problem being that taking the fight at face value, equates to understanding that it was a fix.

[JohnThomas1]

thanks John. Dunno why it didn't work?

You've got to just use the lingo AFTER the "=" sign mate in the YT brackets not the full URL.

[Bokaj]

No, Vaile. It means Liston was hit by a right, went down and didn't get up in time.

I can see why some people have their doubts, but to claim it as a given that it was a fix without having anything substantial to back it up (just that it looked fake) is kind of stupid IMO.

[Vaile]

No, Vaile. It means Liston was hit by a right, went down and didn't get up in time.

I can see why some people have their doubts, but to claim it as a given that it was a fix without having anything substantial to back it up (just that it looked fake) is kind of stupid IMO.


I don't seek to discredit Ali. Far from it, he is a stylistic nightmare for Liston, his movement and accuracy are too much. The fighters and the fight are irrelevant, it is the knockdown that i find dubious and that would be the case in any fight. There is nothing hugely substantial to back it up, no. But fight history, body language and Liston's life outside of the ring lend the conclusion some credence.

[Bokaj]

I don't seek to discredit Ali. Far from it, he is a stylistic nightmare for Liston, his movement and accuracy are too much. The fighters and the fight are irrelevant, it is the knockdown that i find dubious and that would be the case in any fight. There is nothing hugely substantial to back it up, no. But fight history, body language and Liston's life outside of the ring lend the conclusion some credence.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. I'm never going to be 100% satisfied with how either fight ended, but I am with Ali's perfomance in them.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Any punch that lands could look powerful with the graphics, slow-motion and sound effects that were used there. Even a slo-mo of Niccolino Locche landing can look an incredibly hard shot with that treatment. Forget fixes and conspiracies or whatever. We can see what happened ourselves. It isn't a hard punch. To me, the most likely thing that Liston did was the same as 'Buster' Douglas vs Holyfield. Took the shot, lay there and thought "fuck it, I can't be arsed with this". After that the most likely is the dive, then about three or four more reasons, then finally after those a legitimate KO.

[Addie]

Ali would have stopped Liston that night regardless of whether or not he decided to take a dive. That's why its irrelevant to me. Liston has no chance of winning. He couldn't get inside any range to lay a glove on Ali, and Ali's speed, and Jab was causing him problems all night in their first fight. Nothing happened in the second fight to suggest anything different was going to happen.

Ali of that time was so good, Liston knew he had no way to win, so he took a dive. Simple as that.