This Is An Illustration of Why Compubox #'s Should Be Banished

[acb]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.

[Boom_Boom]

Wash woman indeed

[Maxmomer]

Wow, Joe looks like such a douche.

[Thirdgeary]

Nice headbutt by Nard in there too.

[LeadLeftHook]

Hopkins landed cleaner harder punches for sure. Joe barely landed any clean punch, most of them being arm punches that hit air or hit Hopkins shoulders and gloves. Joe just won by being more active of the two without landing any thing significant the entire fight.

Compubox numbers in that fight are indeed very misleading. But judges dont use compubox numbers in scoring so its a non factor in the decision.

[LeadLeftHook]

Way to take a 10 second snapshot of the fight to attempt to prove the entire context of the fight. In this case thats how the entire fight went.

[magnificentdave]

that one punch didn't semi land, it landed on Hopkins' arm

[acb]

But judges dont use compubox numbers in scoring so its a non factor in the decision.

But compubox numbers factor heavily into public perception and are very misleading to the average fan who looks to the numbers game (like most all other sports) to derive a winner. Its the first thing that is analyzed after a big fight- Lampley leads directly into these numbers as if they are accurate or mean something more than they really do on a whole.

[magnificentdave]

I don't think the fight is as simple as the classic quality over quantity aspect. It steps out of that question and into another dimension--

the reality of the punches.

It looks like somebody went in and digitally edited the film.

Whenever Calzaghe threw a punch, they deleted the parts where he followed through or appeared to have intended to land the punch, had he thrown it.

[acb]

that one punch didn't semi land, it landed on Hopkins' arm

Due to the angle of the camera, I couldn't tell if it landed on his upper shoulder or the jaw... or a bit of both.

[elgrancampeon]

Hopkins has a good counter Heabutt followed by a right.

[doomeddisciple]

Way to take a 10 second snapshot of the fight to attempt to prove the entire context of the fight.

He's not.

He's showing that Compubox is not exactly reliable.

The mere mathematics of counting the number of punches does not fit with the pro boxing scoring mechanic.

ie: Chris Byrd lands 40 jabs. David Tua lands one left hook - now mathematically - 40 is a lot more than 1. Personally - I'll take the 40 over the one!

[jimmie]

Ive never put much stock in compubox. All it every seems to me is like a little thing Jim Lampley and HBO use to make there favorites look better or something fans use to scream robbery all the time. Example according to compubox DLH raped Mosley in the rematch but if you really watch the fight and not get caught up in Lampleys nuthugging or the crowd noise you will see what the judges,press judges,ringside fighters seen and thats DLH throwing shots missing all of them and Shane landing loud,thudding power shots which is one of the criteria for scoring a fight clean,effective punching.

[jimmie]

Hopkins landed cleaner harder punches for sure. Joe barely landed any clean punch, most of them being arm punches that hit air or hit Hopkins shoulders and gloves. Joe just won by being more active of the two without landing any thing significant the entire fight.

Compubox numbers in that fight are indeed very misleading. But judges dont use compubox numbers in scoring so its a non factor in the decision.

I like both parts of your post you said what ive been trying to say over a 3 period. That is that sure Hopkins was landing the cleaner and probablly harder punches agianst Calzaghe just like he did vs Taylor in both fights and made them miss alot but he just doesnt throw enough. I mean lets look at it in those 3 particular Hopkins fights hed throw lets say about 15 punches a round landing 8-9 clean right hands which is nice but his opponet will be throwing 50-60 punches overall every round which leaves a bigger impression on the judges because that mean is actually doing more in the fight. I also like your last part compubox isnt used in scoring fights the judges dont get to see the numbers during the fights and cant use it so it is a non factor and therefore I dont see why the thread starter thinks it should be banished. Its like saying the unoffical judge Harold Lederman or the press judges should be banished because there scores arent offical.

[maciek4]

Of course quality over quantity but quality has to be significant. You cant land 2-3 clean punches a round and expect the judges to give you the round.

[MancMexican]

compubox is biased, open to interpretation, and innaccurate, just like official judges and arm chair judges

clowns on here love to quote it when it suits their purposes and discredit it when it suits them too

boxing scoring is subjective, any 'fan' who hasn't worked that out yet needs to be slapped

[ThePlugInBabies]

clowns on here love to quote it when it suits their purposes and discredit it when it suits them too

:yep

hopkins fans couldn't get off compuboxes nuts following the hopkins-taylor fights when it showed that he out landed taylor in both fights.

now it doesn't mean shit according to them. (not aimed at acb)

[divac]

Ive never put much stock in compubox. All it every seems to me is like a little thing Jim Lampley and HBO use to make there favorites look better or something fans use to scream robbery all the time. Example according to compubox DLH raped Mosley in the rematch but if you really watch the fight and not get caught up in Lampleys nuthugging or the crowd noise you will see what the judges,press judges,ringside fighters seen and thats DLH throwing shots missing all of them and Shane landing loud,thudding power shots which is one of the criteria for scoring a fight clean,effective punching.

Truer words have never been spoken, which is why personally I like Showtime's telecast of a big fight over that of HBO's who almost always rely on bogus punchstat numbers and shoves it down the viewers throats.

Especially gagging to me is the part right after a fight is finished, one of the first points that Jim Lampley points too afterward is "Punchstat numbers show....."as if those numbers should overule the cold raw reality of what we just witnessed!:-(

[justin23]

Nice headbutt by Nard in there too.

killa Rx-3 bro! :thumbsup

[Deslizer]

Nice headbutt by Nard in there too.Compubox should have counted hop's headbutts ... maybe he would have landed more than Calzaghe then...

[1punch1nder]

so how many slaps did he land?

[boxeo#1]

But compubox numbers factor heavily into public perception and are very misleading to the average fan who looks to the numbers game (like most all other sports) to derive a winner. Its the first thing that is analyzed after a big fight- Lampley leads directly into these numbers as if they are accurate or mean something more than they really do on a whole.

And how misleading of a name they gave to it. I tell u honest... there was a time when i started following boxing (7 years ago) i thought it was a computer because of the name:patsch
I thought that the fight was filmed, put on a computer with 3d images and than the punches were counted (which is possible to do nowadays). ALL because of the name:nut yeah well maybe i was a bit stupid to think that, but still. F*cking misleading name. It's all done by human hands:fire

[MancMexican]

And how misleading of a name they gave to it. I tell u honest... there was a time when i started following boxing (7 years ago) i thought it was a computer because of the name:patsch
I thought that the fight was filmed, put on a computer with 3d images and than the punches were counted (which is possible to do nowadays). ALL because of the name:nut yeah well maybe i was a bit stupid to think that, but still. F*cking misleading name. It's all done by human hands:fire

yeah, im guilty of being naive at one time too... the name implies its done by computer and you think its infallible, but then you realise its just some dudes with a clicker and it takes the shine off

[K0NPHL1C7]

Way to take a 10 second snapshot of the fight to attempt to prove the entire context of the fight.

That not only describes the entire fight, but it is a fairly good illustration of Joe's entire "career".

He's a fucking farce, winning fights on hyperactivity, a smoke-and-mirrors fighter at very most.

wow a whole 5 second clip got a clip of hopkins missing ? I am sure he missed a lot of punches in the fight

But he didn't, that's the point. Granted he didn't throw nearly as many, his shots were landing far mroe frequently than Calzaghes.

[Drusome]

Way to take a 10 second snapshot of the fight to attempt to prove the entire context of the fight.
That was one of the two best punches that Hopkins landed the whole fight. Lederman gave Hopkins that round (in which he been completely dominated) just because of that one punch. If a fight is judged by who landed the best two punches then Hopkins surely won.

[Irländsk]

This .gif shows us a a punch landed for each fighter and an intentional head-butt landed for B-Hop.
How does it illustrate that comubox is misleading? Are you saying those slapping movements by Calzaghe were scored as landing blows by Compubox? Not possible.
Bottom line, Hopkins lost, he didn't do enough to win, it's time to move on.

[ThePlugInBabies]

Look at those gay punches Calzaghe is throwing

:lol:

you're not making driving miss daisy, AKA head shoeshine boy of GBP look any better here.

[MattMattMatt]

I'm aware of the subjectivity in Compubox, but we cannot dismiss the numbers it gave for the whole fight based on a 10 second clip of which we have no Compubox statistics for! They may have actually counted it 1 punch for 'Nard and 0 for Joe, in which case it would probably have been right - we have no numerical evidence to use that clip as a sample!

I remember that particular sequence of events and I thought that Joe looked to have missed all those punches anyway, even when played at full speed. However, I do not believe that the 10 second clip is that representative of the whole fight, especially not the last half.

Do you have the whole fight in slow motion?

[LiamE]

so how many slaps did he land?

In real time that would be about a second and a half.....

[PaddyD1983]

Nice headbutt by Nard in there too.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ad82]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.
Yea it's clear that Hopkins casied as much damage with his head as he did with his fists! He's also a cheat for feigning low blows to get a rest. All repect has been lost for Hopkins after this and his whining after. He's a sad, bitter old man.

[nervousxtian]

The headbutt was a good move, Joe came in all slap happy there, jumped into the headbutt and took a nice counter right hand and didn't land a shot.

There was a lot more of that happenening that most Calzaghe hugger want to admit. It's why Hop thought he won, he was in there, he knows he landed clean shots, and that Joe hardly touched him.

[196osh]

How many slaps does it take to beat a Bernard Hopkins

232 :yep

[pipe wrenched]

The headbutt was a good move, Joe came in all slap happy there, jumped into the headbutt and took a nice counter right hand and didn't land a shot.

There was a lot more of that happenening that most Calzaghe hugger want to admit. It's why Hop thought he won, he was in there, he knows he landed clean shots, and that Joe hardly touched him.

That's one point, IMO, has been really overlooked. It's not like Bernard was charging at Joe for a head butt over and over. Joe was always rushing wildly into harms way. Over and over X infinity, Joe would just run straight at Bhop, arms wailing, until they met body to body and a clinch was about the only option left.

[196osh]

:fight

Lol

This is how Joe fights :fight

Joe Calzaghe 3 - Bernard Hopkins 0

1. Wins the fight

2. "you got your ass whipped by a white boy"

3. Calzaghe ass raped Hopkins in front of the whole world. Thereby making him Hopkins Daddy


:smoke

[ad82]

Joe won the fight...plain and simple. Hopkins would have been stopped if he didn't feign injury. Joe won and I was there to savour it :)

[Welsh Dragon]

:fight

Lol

This is how Joe fights :fight

Is this how Nard fights :| :| ?

Time to stop the crying and learn how to take defeat:)

[acb]

ACB you always come correct bro, not that anyone would do it, but apon watching the fight in slow mo tm pretty sure everyones outlook on this fight would change. Those punches he threw were disgractful.

BTW, who is that in your avitar?

Thanks.

The man in my avatar is Kid Gavilan.

[acb]

Joe won the fight...plain and simple. Hopkins would have been stopped if he didn't feign injury. Joe won and I was there to savour it :)

Ok, this post actually made me laugh.

Joe was in route to a stoppage? :lol:

[wayne3280]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.

You are dead right. Because the entire fight was that clip on a loop for 12 rounds.

You also didn't count Hopkins' headbutt...

[China_hand_Joe]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.


Your post somewhat ignorant and would enrage me were I an emotional person. What is the framerate of that? Probably much less than 10 f/s, useless evidence to use when Calzaghe punches at a rate of 24.3 punches per second on a bad day.

[Vaile]

Your post somewhat ignorant and would enrage me were I an emotional person. What is the framerate of that? Probably much less than 10 f/s, useless evidence to use when Calzaghe punches at a rate of 24.3 punches per second on a bad day.


I'm slightly confused here. He throws 24 punches a second or is this in regards to frame rate?

[TFFP]

Your post somewhat ignorant and would enrage me were I an emotional person. What is the framerate of that? Probably much less than 10 f/s, useless evidence to use when Calzaghe punches at a rate of 24.3 punches per second on a bad day.
:rofl

[Dorfmeister]

That was in the end of the seventh as Joe threw many arm punches to catch him with one or two shots clean but that could have been the story of the whole fight. Bernard's plan was to make him reach with those fast curved shots and nail him on the counter with very few, sharper and heavier blows... Both guys tried to trick the judges with their strategic approach and both guys failed... Calzaghe's punch power at 175 was not felt because he was worried with winning/turning it around by punch stats once he felt Hopkins power. Hopkins workrate was miserable because he could not keep up a pace with Joe for any moment from round 1 till the final bell ( including after the knockdown, the 20 seconds after the 3 minutes break in round 10 and in the more action packed round 11)... Calzaghe won the fight because he simply proved why he was a favourite in the first place - faster, busier and fresher fighter. Hopkins lost because he didn't do anything else other than expected, and we have to remember he was a underdog for that reason...

[PH|LLA]

Hopkins has a good counter Heabutt followed by a right.
:lol:

[freddy-wak]

that just proved that bhop is a dirty piece of shit

[1-Ton]

More often than not, CompuBox numbers tell the story of the fight, and they did just that in the Calzaghe-Hopkins fight. Still, CompuBox has neither replaced or been implemented into the current scoring system (yet). So I don't see what use there is in complaining about it.

[2ironmt]

As others have mentioned, any headbut in the clip was Calzaghe's fault. Like he did throughout the fight, he was lunging around like a spastic mad slapper.

[Dorfmeister]

Hopkins has a good counter Heabutt followed by a right.

It's obvious that Bernard took full advantage of how his opponent comes with his whirlwind of side punches. If someone comes right at ya winding up his shots, you are supposed to keep your chin down and fire back with authority, that's how it was, is and should be... Therefore, the headbutt was accidental. Bernard put his head in there on purpose in the 11th and Richie Woodhall pointed it out on the Setanta telecast. One last thing, the clip doesn't tell the story of the fight since Joe started finding Bernard's chin with straight, accurate and sharp left hands from round 5 on.

[Tunney5]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

You carefully chose a certain few seconds of the fight to prove something that's not true overall!

I remember those particular moments, but most of the REST of the time Joe's punches were landing much better than that.

[Stickandmove]

Yea it's clear that Hopkins casied as much damage with his head as he did with his fists! He's also a cheat for feigning low blows to get a rest. All repect has been lost for Hopkins after this and his whining after. He's a sad, bitter old man.

Amen. Well said. Hopkins is a dirty, dishonest, cheat. Rounds 10-12 would have played out very differently without Bernard taking his breaks. Calzaghe would have posted a much more impressive win, but Hopkins denied him that by blatantly cheating.

[Stickandmove]

Remember Calzaghe admitted to throwing the low blow on purpose :good

In round 2. Calzaghe never said he was a Saint, and he was honest enough to own up to that particular foul. You'll never hear Hopkins admit to anything wrongdoings; the guy is still a crook - he just plies his trade in the ring now rather than the streets.

[ad82]

Ok, this post actually made me laugh.

Joe was in route to a stoppage? :lol:
Hopkins was shattered when he took the break. Nothing hurts more in boxing than fatigue. Have you ever boxed yourself? I have and I can tell you that Hopkins was absolutely shattered and knew he needed to buy time...which he did by cheating.

[Stickandmove]

Hopkins was shattered when he took the break. Nothing hurts more in boxing than fatigue? Have you ever boxed yourself? I have and I can tell you that Hopkins was absolutely shattered and knew he needed to buy time...which he did by cheating.

Enzo Calzaghe was correct right before round 10 when he told Joe that Hopkins was ready to be stopped. Joe was starting to take over and Hopkins blatantly cheated. Would Joe have stopped Hopkins without the 3 minute break? Maybe. Probably not, but he'd have enjoyed his best moments of the fight.

[Stickandmove]

Kessler Vs Hopkins at 175 - who wins?

[Drexl]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.


Show me how the compubox "scorers" scored that exact exchange, then we can discuss whether you have a point.

If you don't know how they scored that exact exchange, your entire argument is based on how you think they might be scoring.

WTF?



:blood

[MancMexican]

Show me how the compubox "scorers" scored that exact exchange, then we can discuss whether you have a point.

If you don't know how they scored that exact exchange, WTF are you blabbering about? :blood

quoted for truth

[nervousxtian]

THE LOW BLOW WAS NOT CHEATING.

end of story.

The replay shows he was hit low. Was it that hard? Maybe not, we weren't in there to feel it though, were we.

The rules state he has up to 5 minutes to recover, he took 2 1/2, well within the rules.

Joe shouldn't of strayed low and given him the rest, last I checked, Bernard didn't throw that punch, Joe did. It landed low, he played it up a bit, got a rest. End of story.

Same with the headbutts, you come in like a slap-happy mongoloid you're gonna get headbutted when the guy tucks his chin, fact of life. Every headbutt was Joe leading and lunging.

You guys act like all the dirty stuff was Bernard, but Joe was as dirty or WORSE than Bernard, how many times did he rabbit punch? A lot. Hitting to the back? Quite often. Hitting on the break? Yup. Low blows? Yup.

Fuck you Calzaghe nuthuggers who can't admit your guy got a lucky assed win that could have gone either way.

I'm not even that big of a Hopkins fan, but I just can't stand by and listen to you guys spew this sewage out of your mouths.

[ad82]

THE LOW BLOW WAS NOT CHEATING.

end of story.

The replay shows he was hit low. Was it that hard? Maybe not, we weren't in there to feel it though, were we.

The rules state he has up to 5 minutes to recover, he took 2 1/2, well within the rules.

Joe shouldn't of strayed low and given him the rest, last I checked, Bernard didn't throw that punch, Joe did. It landed low, he played it up a bit, got a rest. End of story.

Same with the headbutts, you come in like a slap-happy mongoloid you're gonna get headbutted when the guy tucks his chin, fact of life. Every headbutt was Joe leading and lunging.

You guys act like all the dirty stuff was Bernard, but Joe was as dirty or WORSE than Bernard, how many times did he rabbit punch? A lot. Hitting to the back? Quite often. Hitting on the break? Yup. Low blows? Yup.

Fuck you Calzaghe nuthuggers who can't admit your guy got a lucky assed win that could have gone either way.

I'm not even that big of a Hopkins fan, but I just can't stand by and listen to you guys spew this sewage out of your mouths.
It was not a low blow...a low blow needs to have sufficient force (check the rules for the definition of what is classified as a punch). That 'blow' would not have scored had it landed on the chin so it was not a low blow. Hopkins is a cheat.

[Shane_Erich]

I've had this argument with a buddy of mine 1000 times. I don't need compubox to tell me who won a fight, my eyes do.

[nervousxtian]

Umm, his hand hit below Bernards belt. It was a low blow. End of Story.

[Drexl]

Umm, his hand hit below Bernards belt. It was a low blow. End of Story.

Calzaghe W12 Hopkins. End of Story.

[sues2nd]

Way to take a 10 second snapshot of the fight to attempt to prove the entire context of the fight.

Because it was the context of most of the fight.

I mean, I had Joe winning 7-5 (minus the KD), but there were a ton of close rounds...and only close because Joe threw so much, compared to Bernard landing telling blows (3 of the 4 air tight close rounds I went with Joe). Go back and watch that fight and count how many clean, hard shots he landed on Hopkins....its MAYBE 5 at most. While Bernard would land hard and clean almost everytime he threw.

There is analysing a fight, post fight time...and there is totally ignoring the facts of what went on during the fight.

Fact is, Bernard landed MANY, MANY more clean hard shots...while Joe thew and landed alot more total punches. Score it how you want (the aggressor or the cleaner puncher), but dont try to distort the truth.

[sues2nd]

It was not a low blow...a low blow needs to have sufficient force (check the rules for the definition of what is classified as a punch). That 'blow' would not have scored had it landed on the chin so it was not a low blow. Hopkins is a cheat.

Beyond wrong....learn the rules.

A low blow is a punch that lands BENEATH the beltline. Both that Calzaghe landed were beneath (the ones he was warned for)...it doesnt matter if its a grazing shot or a monsterous uppercut to the baby maker...its still a low blow. And on a low blow, the fighter has 5 minutes to recover from it (whether he needs it or not)...Hop took about 3.

Again, learn the rules.

[sues2nd]

Joe landed a lot of shots on Bernard – Bernard evaded a lot of shots that Joe didn’t land, of that there is no question – but that particular ten second clip is NOT the context of the fight, it made Joe look entirely amateur with the wide angle throws he was throwing – thing is, that’s how Joe feints, the final punch he threw that went close to connection (I had it glancing the shoulder of Hopkins) was what he was looking to do the entire time.

8-4 is what I had the fight and it was largely due to Hopkins inactivity – you know me Sues, I said before the fight that Hopkins was the only guy between 160-175 that I saw taking Calzaghe to the wire and potentially beating him, so when Hopkins utilized the tactics I thought he had the most chance of winning with, I wasn’t entirely upset – the problem is, Hopkins just forgot to throw enough himself.

Compubox in this case was an accurate measure of the fight, because short of two or three rounds – Hopkins didn’t really do much except spoil the fight by leading with his head, clinching as often as possible and trying to rough Joe up on the inside.. against most other fighters? It’d cause a meltdown and Hopkins would win – against Joe? Joe just fought fire with fire.

I think you are half/missing what I was getting at with that.

Obviously, Calzaghe landed more than just a glancing shot on the shoulder and the rest air throughout the fight.

The point (and I believe the original point of the original poster as well) was, Joe threw ALOT and when he hit, it was RARELY anything telling or clean....Bernard on the other hand threw little in comparison, yet the majority of what he landed was telling and clean. So basically, his one land for every 2 of Calzaghe's was harder...cleaner...etc.

Again, many times in this fight, I also went with the aggressor...but to say that my above statement (or the point of the post...I believe at least the point of the post/gif) is wrong and isnt the context of the fight is wrong.

Fact is, that fight was close...a HELL of alot closer than most of the Calzaghe fans or people picking Joe want to admit...and if you scored for the aggressor, I can see 8-4, but if you went with the clean puncher, then you could see it a hell of alot closer.

I think compubox has its place...and sometimes tells the story of the fight...but not in this case. I had Joe winning, but Im sorry, I cant fault people for feeling 1 hard, clean shot out of 4 punches, is better than 3 grazing blows with no emphasis out of 9.

[sues2nd]

Hop didn't need 3 for the low blow though, Hop took 3 to regather himself and regroup, lets just be honest there.

Totally agree...but to say he is a cheat for it and try to change the rules like that last guy is ridiculous.

Again, you got 5 mins...you can use them to recover from the low blow, recover evergy.....or whip up a batch of cupcakes in an easy bake oven....and as long as you dont take more than 5....your well within the rules.

[JonOli]

That head-butt is a disgrace.

[mturner77]

The Compubox number's are beyond ridiculous. If anyone wants to take 10 minutes and watch the 2nd round in slow-motion you'll see what I'm talking about. They had 13 power punches landing for Calzaghe. If anyone can find 5 punches landing for Calzaghe in that round I'll be very impressed. Also keep in mind that Compubox counts taps to the body and head during clenches as "power punches" since they aren't jabs. You may also notice that Hopkins lands the only 2 significant punches in that round - a left counter at 1:55 and a straight right at 1:28.

[BlueApollo]

That head-butt is a disgrace.

At least it's recognizable. Name Joe's first punch in that sequence.

I don't really think this .gif is the entire fight in microcosm. Half of it though, you bet.

[tays001]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.

bitter are we?:yep

[mattress]

yawn

[JonOli]

Hopkins should have a boxing glove attatched to the top of his head.

[acb]

For all of you guys bitching about the thread, I offer no apology whatsoever and will continue to speak my mind irregardless of the feelings I hurt here. It seems ESB loves to criticize diverent opinion and give the hater label, but it doesn't affect me one bit. I picked Calzaghe by SD and don't have a problem with the result- to be honest the fight was weeks ago and I just don't give a fuck.

Many times I have argued against compubox, not just in this fight. Still, some GIF was going to be used and if it was Calzaghe, so- fucking- be it. :deal

[acb]

The gif was ten seconds of a fight in a Round before Calzaghe had figured Hopkins out

Go to any of the Rounds between 5-12 and take a 30 second segment - if you can get another 10 seconds to look like that, I'd be amazed.

Do I need to repeat this? I stated in the original post that boxing is far to chaotic of a sport for human beings to count punches, and this applies to all fights. Its simply a bogus tool.

[tays001]

For all of you guys bitching about the thread, I offer no apology whatsoever and will continue to speak my mind irregardless of the feelings I hurt here. It seems ESB loves to criticize diverent opinion and give the hater label, but it doesn't affect me one bit. I picked Calzaghe by SD and don't have a problem with the result- to be honest the fight was weeks ago and I just don't give a fuck.

Many times I have argued against compubox, not just in this fight. Still, some GIF was going to be used and if it was Calzaghe, so- fucking- be it. :deal

AHH DON"T worry ACB i KNOW what your intentions were in regards to the system used to count punches for a fight being so inaccurate or flawed.the fact that so many fan use this system to back up their cliam is funny but it's the best system we have at this time so we have to make due with what we have . i know you used the most recent fight as an example :yep

[sues2nd]

The gif was ten seconds of a fight in a Round before Calzaghe had figured Hopkins out

Go to any of the Rounds between 5-12 and take a 30 second segment - if you can get another 10 seconds to look like that, I'd be amazed.

Any round...you will see Calzaghe as the aggressor, landing glancing shots mostly...very, VERY few clean. You will also see Hopkins throwing MUCH, much less than Joe, but most of what lands is clean and telling. Doesnt matter which round, or how much of a clip you look at.

After taking this as fact, you either side with the aggressor or the fighter landing the more telling shots. As I said, I saw 4 rounds that could have went either way, depending of course on what you held more important of the two above. I myself gave Calzaghe 3 of those rounds....and the fight to him as well. Doesnt change the facts above tho.

[Vaile]

The main crux of the thread has a lot of validity. Joe's fans need to stop being so defensive, he looked sloppy in the clip, very sloppy, it's not even debatable. If a clip of another recent fight could be found to illustrate the point so effectively, i'm sure it would have been. Alas it was not to be, none could be found, but it shows perfectly the flawed scoring that takes place under compubox, be it in this fight or any other. It's a piss poor system that needs to be dropped.

[BigReg]

I don't see the point in abolishing Compubox, it's not like the judges use it.

[pipe wrenched]

The gif was ten seconds of a fight in a Round before Calzaghe had figured Hopkins out

Go to any of the Rounds between 5-12 and take a 30 second segment - if you can get another 10 seconds to look like that, I'd be amazed.

Not sure if I misunderstood your post, but that gif is from ending seconds of round 7.

[tays001]

Any round...you will see Calzaghe as the aggressor, landing glancing shots mostly...very, VERY few clean. You will also see Hopkins throwing MUCH, much less than Joe, but most of what lands is clean and telling. Doesnt matter which round, or how much of a clip you look at.

After taking this as fact, you either side with the aggressor or the fighter landing the more telling shots. As I said, I saw 4 rounds that could have went either way, depending of course on what you held more important of the two above. I myself gave Calzaghe 3 of those rounds....and the fight to him as well. Doesnt change the facts above tho.

very good post

[acb]

I don't see the point in abolishing Compubox, it's not like the judges use it.
Everyone else does though. It just confuses and bastardizes what fans and commentators see with their own eyes. Its used to justify rematches, to argue for fighters being robbed, and to argue the merit of decisions. Its a terrible mechanism all around and although judges don't use it, its still the first thing you see when a fight is over.

Between compubox and Harold Lederman's score cards boxing fans can't find the ass end of the donkey anymore, its no wonder every fight in boxing these days is a robbery.

It would be great to get rid of both compubox, Lederman, Lampley's cheerleading house fighters, and Stewart's further confusing fans by changing his fucking opinion every ten seconds about what he is saying whenever it makes him look good.

[Toopretty]

The gif was ten seconds of a fight in a Round before Calzaghe had figured Hopkins out

Go to any of the Rounds between 5-12 and take a 30 second segment - if you can get another 10 seconds to look like that, I'd be amazed.

If you watched the fight you would know that was a later Calzaghe round where the HBO crew gave him credit for all those shots. When he jabbed and missed by a mile they talked about him being effective with the jab...though he missed by a mile. If you mute them clowns out like I do religiously the fight was a close fight with Calzaghe winning but he did not land shit but 3 good punches.

[mturner77]

Everyone else does though. It just confuses and bastardizes what fans and commentators see with their own eyes. Its used to justify rematches, to argue for fighters being robbed, and to argue the merit of decisions. Its a terrible mechanism all around and although judges don't use it, its still the first thing you see when a fight is over.

Between compubox and Harold Lederman's score cards boxing fans can't find the ass end of the donkey anymore, its no wonder every fight in boxing these days is a robbery.

It would be great to get rid of both compubox, Lederman, Lampley's cheerleading house fighters, and Stewart's further confusing fans by changing his fucking opinion every ten seconds about what he is saying whenever it makes him look good.

Some fighters even seem to buy into it (or at least lie to themselves). Some may have seen the recent Calzaghe interview where he uses the compubox numbers as proof of how much he outlanded Hopkins. He even believes based on these numbers he's landed more punches on Hopkins then any fighter ever has.

[KO Boxing]

If you watched the fight you would know that was a later Calzaghe round where the HBO crew gave him credit for all those shots. When he jabbed and missed by a mile they talked about him being effective with the jab...though he missed by a mile. If you mute them clowns out like I do religiously the fight was a close fight with Calzaghe winning but he did not land shit but 3 good punches.
Yeah, I think the HBO crew AND compubox are both slightly slanting history... in the sense that perhaps in 50 to 100 years time, the only footage of a lot of fights will be the HBO version, and compubox numbers.

This could be misleading.

But at the same time, both have an equal amount of chance of being abolished... 0

[BigReg]

Everyone else does though. It just confuses and bastardizes what fans and commentators see with their own eyes. Its used to justify rematches, to argue for fighters being robbed, and to argue the merit of decisions. Its a terrible mechanism all around and although judges don't use it, its still the first thing you see when a fight is over.

Between compubox and Harold Lederman's score cards boxing fans can't find the ass end of the donkey anymore, its no wonder every fight in boxing these days is a robbery.

It would be great to get rid of both compubox, Lederman, Lampley's cheerleading house fighters, and Stewart's further confusing fans by changing his fucking opinion every ten seconds about what he is saying whenever it makes him look good.

Boxing is a subjective sport. People will always argue about decisions. My father gets pissed everytime someone mentions Hagler vs. Leonard and there was no compubox back then. I don't think many overseas networks use compubox or a similar system, yet foriegn fight fans still argue decisions. It adds to arguments, but none the less, there would still be arguments regardless.

[BigBarry]

You are talking like Compubox is influencing fight scoring.

let me assure you it is not. Judges have no idea of compubox numbers.

Remember also that number and quality of punches landed are not the only factor considered when scoring a fight.

[BigBarry]

If you watched the fight you would know that was a later Calzaghe round where the HBO crew gave him credit for all those shots. When he jabbed and missed by a mile they talked about him being effective with the jab...though he missed by a mile. If you mute them clowns out like I do religiously the fight was a close fight with Calzaghe winning but he did not land shit but 3 good punches.

You dont have to land with a jab for it to be effective. :patsch

[acb]

Boxing is a subjective sport. People will always argue about decisions. My father gets pissed everytime someone mentions Hagler vs. Leonard and there was no compubox back then. I don't think many overseas networks use compubox or a similar system, yet foriegn fight fans still argue decisions. It adds to arguments, but none the less, there would still be arguments regardless.

These are valid points.

By the way, you just need to explain to your pops that SRL won- and that its Haggler's fault for taking the first two rounds off. :deal

[sues2nd]

You are talking like Compubox is influencing fight scoring.

let me assure you it is not. Judges have no idea of compubox numbers.

Remember also that number and quality of punches landed are not the only factor considered when scoring a fight.

Not a soul actually has said that. They are saying that compubox stats tend to sway people AFTER the fight..and hardly tell the whole truth of the fight.

Go look at pretty much everyone who says Calzaghe blew Hopkins out (some actually have it as wide as 10-2 with the KD?!?!?!?), they all point toward the punch stats as some great barometer...when in truth, it is very decieving in a fight like this.

[BigBarry]

Not a soul actually has said that. They are saying that compubox stats tend to sway people AFTER the fight..and hardly tell the whole truth of the fight.

Go look at pretty much everyone who says Calzaghe blew Hopkins out (some actually have it as wide as 10-2 with the KD?!?!?!?), they all point toward the punch stats as some great barometer...when in truth, it is very decieving in a fight like this.

Compubox sways ignorant people after the fight.

I say Calzaghe won 117-112 but that was based on Ring Generalship, effective aggression and defense.....and before anyone makes me yawn about teh lack of clean punches landed by Calzaghe for effective aggression....what Joe did score higher than punch, headbut, hold

[acb]

Compubox sways ignorant people after the fight.

I say Calzaghe won 117-112 but that was based on Ring Generalship, effective aggression and defense.....

Well bless you, thats how we did it in the good old days.

[BigBarry]

Thats how I still get paid to do it

[BigReg]

These are valid points.

By the way, you just need to explain to your pops that SRL won- and that its Haggler's fault for taking the first two rounds off. :deal

He bet a lot of money on that fight, he swears all Ray did was run and flurry at the end of every run. I can't believe he still hasn't gotten over it.:-(

[BigBarry]

He bet a lot of money on that fight, he swears all Ray did was run and flurry at the end of every run. I can't believe he still hasn't gotten over it.:-(

Hagler never got over it. Hagler won....In my opinion of course :nut

[Toopretty]

You dont have to land with a jab for it to be effective. :patsch

Well in this case he was neither effective nor landed it. Its not like he followed up with anything. He jabbed got inside and got counter punched or tied up. Over and over and over. So like I said, UNEFFECTIVE jab.

[mturner77]

Compubox sways ignorant people after the fight.

I say Calzaghe won 117-112 but that was based on Ring Generalship, effective aggression and defense.....and before anyone makes me yawn about teh lack of clean punches landed by Calzaghe for effective aggression....what Joe did score higher than punch, headbut, hold

These same ignorant people probably have the biggest impact on what fights we see. Super fights happen because the casual fan wants a part of it. More importantly no one deserves to be deceived regardless of their boxing knowledge. Nothing positive comes out of that.

As far as your scoring, I'll save my opinion on that for another topic :yep

[BigBarry]

These same ignorant people probably have the biggest impact on what fights we see. Super fights happen because the casual fan wants a part of it. More importantly no one deserves to be deceived regardless of their boxing knowledge. Nothing positive comes out of that.

As far as your scoring, I'll save my opinion on that for another topic :yep

hahah, ok. I hope you are qualified to give one :lol:

[Club Fighter]

Wow, Joe looks like such a douche.

In some cases looks can be deceiving. This is not one of those cases.

[tays001]

You dont have to land with a jab for it to be effective. :patsch

truer word have never been spoken

[41fever]

That happened all night. Joe missed tons of slaps, that's y I can't discredit the old man. However, Joe, at least was slapping, while Bernard was less active, albeit more effective.

I thought Joe won on workrate alone. IT can be argued that BHOP won on clean punches landed.

[nervousxtian]

A disgrace? How so. That headbutt is only a disgrace if you are a Calzaghe sack-rider. Joe did it to himself but jumping in like that, and he got a nice right to the jaw as well.

Again, why people argue that he cheated to get those 3 mins.... he DID NOT CHEAT. He got hit low, he had up to 5 mins. He too less than 3. By the book, he did not cheat.

Did he need 3 mins? Probably not, but it's beside the point, it was NOT cheating.

[BigBarry]

joe looks like he is trying to slap fight with a woman which is exactly how he punches

Says more about Hopkins then Calzaghe

[ad82]

Beyond wrong....learn the rules.

A low blow is a punch that lands BENEATH the beltline. Both that Calzaghe landed were beneath (the ones he was warned for)...it doesnt matter if its a grazing shot or a monsterous uppercut to the baby maker...its still a low blow. And on a low blow, the fighter has 5 minutes to recover from it (whether he needs it or not)...Hop took about 3.

Again, learn the rules.
You are wrong.. I box, I know the rules!

To be classified as a blow, a punch has to land with sufficient force. In the 10th it was a tap on the belt line, not a punch of sufficient force. Read the rule book :)

[session9]

Is it one guy with a clicker, or multiple guys in different positions around the ring with clickers and a punch is only registered when the majority of them agree a punch was thrown?

[nervousxtian]

ad82, it's no use arguing with a retard, so we'll have to disagree.

[Vaile]

In some cases looks can be deceiving. This is not one of those cases.


:rofl

[ad82]

ad82, it's no use arguing with a retard, so we'll have to disagree.
Ther's no arguing to it...read the rule book on what qualifies as a scoring punch. It's very simple :)

[Dorfmeister]

Thank God Chuckie is quitting the boxing judging business and looking to be a columnist and a consultant... He is an insurance broker anyway so what was he doing scoring fights? Same thing for the HBO Pharmacist, Tommy Kaczmarek and "Dick" Flaherty... You should stick to what you know best and that's certainly not scoring boxing fights.

[BewareofDawg]

Calzaghe looks like he's swimming :lol:

[Drexl]

Calzaghe looks like he's winning :lol:

Fixed it for you. :good

[pipe wrenched]

Jim Lampley: Thru round 2, compubox has Calzaghe throwing 32 jabs, landing 0.

[pelican]

Hopkins landed cleaner harder punches for sure. Joe barely landed any clean punch, most of them being arm punches that hit air or hit Hopkins shoulders and gloves. Joe just won by being more active of the two without landing any thing significant the entire fight.

Compubox numbers in that fight are indeed very misleading. But judges dont use compubox numbers in scoring so its a non factor in the decision.

:good

[BewareofDawg]

Fixed it for you. :good
:yep

[mturner77]

Jim Lampley: Thru round 2, compubox has Calzaghe throwing 32 jabs, landing 0.

That was hilarious. You know Joe must have really swining at air if Compubox couldn't find a him landing a jab.

[mike464]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.Calzaghe looks like he's swimming without the water.

[KilltheKing]

Look at this GIF. Quick... how many punches just landed for each fighter?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The correct answer is that 5 are thrown by Calzaghe, and 1 semi lands, while 2 are thrown by Bernard and 1 lands.

But this is a slow motion replay on a loop and is a close up shot. Place yourself in the position of someone suposedly counting punches in the audience with bad angles and the distractions of the atmosphere and you have a ridiculously corrupted mechanism for measuring success.

:fight

ESB time to rename this the "Calslappy" or the "Welsh Boxing Match"