Aoki's flying guard GIF [Archive] - East Side Boxing Forum

sugarngold

05-01-2008, 11:27 PM

waste of a move

I guess that works in a padded MMA ring - but in the street I think that is referred to as busting your head on the concrete.

I'm not cracking on Aoki though - he is the MAN. I wish he could fight Penn or Sherk. Oh, the fights we could see. . .

chimba

05-02-2008, 12:01 AM

Are you fucking retarded? How the else is Aoki going to get JZ to the ground. He couldn't outwrestle a grappling dummy.

No its a fuckin waste of a move...for someone to go head first unprotected (lucky JZ didnt smoke him right there) execute a ballistic move that could have hurt his neck in the process
All for what??to put someone on your guard???

Please...yes he won the fight..but if I score it on who did the more damage..JZ(who I think is overrated as well.) He freakin broke Aokis face.

flying armbar. triangle..yes..but flying shit like that just so you can get someone in your guard desperately because thats the only way "not to lose"..thats a waste..again he was lucky that was unexpected and JZ couldnt react fast enough..he wont be doing that again and frankly I dont know who else would attempt that

ufoalf

05-02-2008, 12:44 AM

No its a fuckin waste of a move...for someone to go head first unprotected (lucky JZ didnt smoke him right there) execute a ballistic move that could have hurt his neck in the process
All for what??to put someone on your guard???

Please...yes he won the fight..but if I score it on who did the more damage..JZ(who I think is overrated as well.) He freakin broke Aokis face.

flying armbar. triangle..yes..but flying shit like that just so you can get someone in your guard desperately because thats the only way "not to lose"..thats a waste..again he was lucky that was unexpected and JZ couldnt react fast enough..he wont be doing that again and frankly I dont know who else would attempt that

Did it work? Did he win?

The discussion is pretty much over once you know the answers.

chimba

05-02-2008, 12:53 AM

Did it work? Did he win?

The discussion is pretty much over once you know the answers.

Who the fuck cares if he won..he did nothing but stall with 1 good attempt at omo... look Im not a fan of either because frankly even Florian I give a greeat shot at beating both. All Im saying is that move is a stupid move and no he didnt win because of it..He won because the judges saw him "in control" for most of the fight. had they looked at who did the more damage, he would have lost

ufoalf

05-02-2008, 01:55 AM

Who the fuck cares if he won..he did nothing but stall with 1 good attempt at omo... look Im not a fan of either because frankly even Florian I give a greeat shot at beating both. All Im saying is that move is a stupid move and no he didnt win because of it..He won because the judges saw him "in control" for most of the fight. had they looked at who did the more damage, he would have lost

WTF are you talking about. He absolutely controlled the fight had plenty of submission attempts. JZ looked absolutely hopeless in there.

What damage? All of the 3 heel shots and 5 punches that he landed? Really? He wins under any judge because he owned JZ pure and simple. Jumping guard was not waste of move. It was a strategy. He is stronger on the ground than JZ and he doesn't have good takedowns. Then jump guard. How is that a waste of move? What are you talking about? Are you getting this idea from the same place where u got the BJJ 101 "give up an armbar"-escape?

chimba

05-02-2008, 08:49 AM

WTF are you talking about. He absolutely controlled the fight had plenty of submission attempts. JZ looked absolutely hopeless in there.

What damage? All of the 3 heel shots and 5 punches that he landed? Really? He wins under any judge because he owned JZ pure and simple. Jumping guard was not waste of move. It was a strategy. He is stronger on the ground than JZ and he doesn't have good takedowns. Then jump guard. How is that a waste of move? What are you talking about? Are you getting this idea from the same place where u got the BJJ 101 "give up an armbar"-escape?

You know that Aoki is injured right? Do you know what the injury was? A fuckin smashed face!..Yes a face injury..I wonder how that happened?

Yes Silva offered that arm to Lutter..as you know by now Lutter cannot execute a fuckin armbar

ufoalf

05-02-2008, 02:10 PM

You know that Aoki is injured right? Do you know what the injury was? A fuckin smashed face!..Yes a face injury..I wonder how that happened?

Yes Silva offered that arm to Lutter..as you know by now Lutter cannot execute a fuckin armbar

Yea, he got hit in the face with a heel. That is all. That's not gona cut for a win whe JZ was getting dominated the whole fight.

Yea Silva offered that arm to Lutter.... BJJ 101. :rofl Can't believe you're still defending that.

boxingcar

05-02-2008, 03:15 PM

had they looked at who did the more damage, he would have lost so i'm presuming that you're part of this camp who believes that crocop defeated fedor , correct ?

Sweet Pea

05-02-2008, 04:15 PM

Donut62

05-02-2008, 04:44 PM

This is ridiculous Chimba, you either don't understand Aoki's style or just very much dislike him.

I think Chimba is just having trouble thinking clearly with JZ resting his balls in his mouth.

Blaze

05-02-2008, 05:11 PM

I think Chimba is just having trouble thinking clearly with JZ resting his balls in his mouth.

Perhaps he thought it was a boxing match.

chimba

05-02-2008, 06:54 PM

so i'm presuming that you're part of this camp who believes that crocop defeated fedor , correct ?

Crocop and Fedor fight was different than this fight.. That was mostly a striking match which Fedor barely edged Cop. Ohh how about Fedors face? He cuts easier than most and thats why his face was alittle more messed up than Mirko.. Crocop was fucked up too. I put it this way, you cannot clearly tell who did more damage in that fight Fedor or Crocop by just looking at their faces. Fedor won that fight because he connected more, maybe Crocops facehide is abit thicker.

Look , this guy JZ is overrated, I laugh when they consider him beating BJ awhile ago because really..BJ wouldnt fuckin need to train to mop the canvas with him. Meanwhile I though higher of Aoki..thats why I was very disappointed when for 5 minutes he was clinging to Jzs back doing nothing!!..not even close to choking.! Truthfully, JZ did more damage and that fight could have been stopped when JZ broke his fuckin face.

Nevertheless, my point was clear..its about the move...show me a fuckin legitimate JJ school that would teach you that fuckin move... Go ballistic and execute a flying guard :lol: ..Thats all I said its a lousy move! Its a high risk move with basically no reward.

The fight itself I can only describe but either way I couldnt care less who won. Control Aoki, damage JZ..that is all

chimba

05-02-2008, 07:01 PM

I think Chimba is just having trouble thinking clearly with JZ resting his balls in his mouth.

What the fuck are you talking about? JZs JJ is brown belt at best meaning mediocre JJ.. because frankly Aoki with his "rubber guard" will be exploited by most elite JJ practitioner. Truthfully Sherk will pass this guy in 5 seconds, thats why I was surprised by JZ being so awful inside the guard. Ohh Sherk will also rush this JZ guy thru the fuckin cage if they meet

Beebs

05-02-2008, 07:01 PM

Its just pulling guard, he just did it in a wacky looking way. He is worlds better off with JZ in his guard than standing with him.

chimba

05-02-2008, 07:11 PM

Its just pulling guard, he just did it in a wacky looking way. He is worlds better off with JZ in his guard than standing with him.

I can agree with that.:good . It was wacky indeed..that was my whole point before this thing got blown out of proportion...

Again, I have no objection of pulling guard if that is to your advantage...but if you look at the move and the impact on the back of the neck..you can never know if something snaps and you land at abit weird angle..the move was too ballistic for what you get..that is all

Beebs

05-02-2008, 08:12 PM

Yea, I don't really understand why he made such a big jump and threw his head back, seems like he coulda busted his head if he missed. But I'm not the craziest grappler in MMA.

ufoalf

05-02-2008, 11:56 PM

Meanwhile I though higher of Aoki..thats why I was very disappointed when for 5 minutes he was clinging to Jzs back doing nothing!!..not even close to choking.! Truthfully, JZ did more damage and that fight could have been stopped when JZ broke his fuckin face.

Nevertheless, my point was clear..its about the move...show me a fuckin legitimate JJ school that would teach you that fuckin move... Go ballistic and execute a flying guard :lol: ..Thats all I said its a lousy move! Its a high risk move with basically no reward.
First, rnc is not that easy to pull off on anyone. I roll with purple belts who arn't able to pull it of for 10 minutes straight(i have no belt because i dont train formally). He was working for the rnc 100% of the time.

Second, go to ANY bjj school and they will teach you jump/pulling guard. Just because he did it with a jump doesn't make it any less of a move. It's still "pulling guard" if you wanna phrase it that way. To pull guard "traditional" way you would have to get close and have a kind of a muay thai clinch but that makes you exposed to short hard punches. So he jumped it and did it successfully. It was a completely legitemate move. Risk of falling 3 feet to the ground is 0, try it.

chimba

05-03-2008, 12:15 AM

First, rnc is not that easy to pull off on anyone. I roll with purple belts who arn't able to pull it of for 10 minutes straight(i have no belt because i dont train formally). He was working for the rnc 100% of the time.

Second, go to ANY bjj school and they will teach you jump/pulling guard. Just because he did it with a jump doesn't make it any less of a move. It's still "pulling guard" if you wanna phrase it that way. To pull guard "traditional" way you would have to get close and have a kind of a muay thai clinch but that makes you exposed to short hard punches. So he jumped it and did it successfully. It was a completely legitemate move. Risk of falling 3 feet to the ground is 0, try it.

It was fantastic move from an excitement point of view...Its more the execution..maybe he wanted to catch JZ off guard..but boy it was a dangerous move..the more I rewatch it..I wouldnt be surprised if his injury is actually caused by that..a bruised neck

Anyway...Aoki has good jits..better than JZ thats for sure..his rubber guard is high and tight...one of the best jj for MMA..

notrighthere

05-04-2008, 08:06 PM

What do expect from a guy whos Japanese nickname translates to "tenth degree black belt in flying submissions"? He's done several jumping maneuvers previously in MMA/grappling it seems to be much safer for him that getting his head taken off with a punch.

Sherk takes guys down and buries he his head into their chest, that would basically give Aoki rubber guard. If you watch Sherk on the ground with Nick Diaz you would see that he has trouble with a lanky guard player, Sherk even said Nick was the best ground fighter he ever faced. Sherk isn't an instant KO threat like the "overrated" JZ. You dont care if Aoki won or he looked boring because he just controlled his opponent, and then out all F***ing people you mention Sean Sherk. Why would you even care about that fight?

LBfactotum

05-04-2008, 11:16 PM

Yea, I don't really understand why he made such a big jump and threw his head back, seems like he coulda busted his head if he missed. But I'm not the craziest grappler in MMA.

Any sort of flying maneuver or submission requires 100% commitment to work. That is why they're such high risk maneuvers. Learning (or in my case attempting to learn ) flying armbars I started gaining more sucess when I really started putting an effort into jumping as high as possible in relation to my opponent and going for the move.

Any hesitancy and you're going to miss it horribly. I think my neck still hurts from the many missed attempts I've had on the mat :yep

Ubersteve

05-06-2008, 03:24 PM

JZ isn't overrated. The guy is a bull. Aoki will have seen the way JZ absolutely murdered Shaolin and adapted his plan based around that. It's a great, great win for Aoki. I'd favour either of those guys over Sherk, and think either of them would run BJ close and have a decent chance.

Ubersteve

05-06-2008, 03:50 PM

When you think about it, the UFC LW division is actually quite limited in terms of styles. Sherk dominated because most peoples styles played right into his hands. Most of the guys in the division are grinders, fast grinders, but grinders nontheless. Guys like JZ, Aoki and Gomi would provide huge challenges for them. I couldn't back Joe Stevenson to beat any of those guys.

Even people like Hansen and Azaredo would shake things up. Probably not going to beat Sherk, but I'd like to see how a Stevenson, Edgar or Huerta would deal with Hansen stuffing takedown attempts by kneeing you in the head really fucking hard. Or how they'd deal with Azaredo's non stop trying to kill you.

As exciting as the division can be, along with HW, it's the one they're doing the least with. With WW, MW and LHW they've at least managed to amass most of the worlds best guys. At LW and HW I doubt they have half the worlds top 20 in there.