Greatest fighter ever with two '1-punch KO/TKO' losses = _________? (w/ photos)

[paulfv]

I'm thinking it's probably between RJJ:

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vs Glenn Johnson (overhand right = KO punch)

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vs Tarver II (left hook = KO punch)


or...


Lennox Lewis:

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vs Oliver McCall (overhand right = KO punch)

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vs Rahman I (overhand right = KO punch)

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These are the only good fighters I remember who twice suffered losses via 1-punch KO.

Jones showed susceptibility to both the left hook and the overhand right, whereas both of Lennox's 1-punch KO defeats resulted from right hands.

Overall, I have to say that Jones was a much, much better fighter than Lewis. Jones' reflexes were some of the finest the sport has ever seen, and he was a multi-division champion.

Lewis was a very solid champion who used his size to maximum advantage, particularly after his two 1-punch KO losses forced him to adopt a more defensive style. Hall of Fame trainer Emmanuel Steward helped Lewis play to his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, and Lewis would never be knocked out again after his dramatic 5th-round defeat to Hasim Rahman in Johannesburg, South Africa.

Still, as great as Lewis may have been, RJJ is one of the true athletic marvels in the history of the sport. Though both men were unfortunate enough to suffer two 1-punch KO setbacks, the similarities, IMO, end there.


Better fighter: Jones, and it's not close.
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Can you think of anyone else who you would put on this list? Is he better than the two men mentioned? Do you think Lewis is better than Jones, all-time?

[Carlos Primera]

imo: lennox > RJJ

[paulfv]

imo: lennox > RJJ

Wow. Really? I guess you could say Lennox had better skills than RJJ. Roy's skills weren't so great, but his reflexes were so good it almost didn't matter.

[Carlos Primera]

Wow. Really? I guess you could say Lennox had better skills than RJJ. Roy's skills weren't so great, but his reflexes were so good it almost didn't matter.
i just think that lennox was an awesome physical specimen himself. rarely do you get a huge guy that skilled and powerful. that straight right's gotta be one of the p4p hardest punches ever. but thats just me man. i'm pretty sure a lot more people here would argue that rjj is better than lennox.

[paulfv]

i just think that lennox was an awesome physical specimen himself. rarely do you get a huge guy that skilled and powerful. that straight right's gotta be one of the p4p hardest punches ever. but thats just me man. i'm pretty sure a lot more people here would argue that rjj is better than lennox.

That's cool, Lennox was a specimen.

Sweat Pea - You're right, RJJ did/does have skills, just different ones than a lot of other traditional fighters. He is not good at rolling with punches, nor working off of a jab (or even using a jab). When he still had amazing reflexes, he could get away with not using/having these skills, but it's a lot tougher now as he's gotten up in years

[paulfv]

A guy who I can think of that was once destroyed by 1-punch KO is Duran (by Hearns). But I don't think it ever happened again, and not in the same fashion (1-punch).

[BewareofDawg]

Wow. Really? I guess you could say Lennox had better skills than RJJ. Roy's skills weren't so great, but his reflexes were so good it almost didn't matter.
You are a moron of the highest order :good

[barneyrub]

School holidays is it?
Anyway, it depends how you define a one punch ko. Rahman himself said that it wasnt a one punch ko because he said he was landing that right hand all night, therefore the culminative effect of them plus one being about 30 seconds before the ko which clearly hurt lewis, it all means that if that was a one punch ko then so was lewis`s ko over tyson!
The mcall fight was a tko, lewis was up at 6 and the referee only gave him an 8 second count, he was in better or at least the same state as holmes when he got up at th esame count versus shavers and agoinst snipes, the difference is the referees and the favour shown to an american hero! Holyfield went down versus Bowe and got a 17 second count from cortez, the same guy that gave Marco Antonio Barrera a 19 second count versus junior Jones and Golota 18 seconds versus Lewis.
Incidently did anyone see Amir Kahns 13 second count versus Limond on saturday, some fighters are just the home favourite and get the gift from the referee because of who they are.

[barneyrub]

Anyway, he stood up against plenty more hard punches so heres some education for you kid,

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[Mook]

Two greatest fighters since prime Tyson years and Hagler/hearns/leonard/duran.

If they really are china chinned (btw, they weren't), you have to respect the fact that they managed to beat such big punchers.

[jyuza]

The Rahman right hand was terrific... I need to rewatch that fight. Lucky punch .... I dunno.

[paulfv]

You are a moron of the highest order :good

I'll try to make it easy for you:

RJJ did/does have skills, just different ones than a lot of other traditional fighters. He is not good at rolling with punches, nor working off of a jab (or even using a jab). When he still had amazing reflexes, he could get away with not using/having these skills, but it's a lot tougher now as he's gotten up in years

That was in the post above yours.

"Skill" does not = 'talent' or reflex. RJJ had supreme talent and reflexes. As soon as his reflexes just barely faded, his lack of technical skills became much more obvious and debilitating. Things like pulling back after throwing a punch with his head straight up, inability to work off of a jab, or using effective clinches.

These skill deficiencies, for example, are what seperates an RJJ from a PBF. Floyd has a lot of talent (not as much as RJJ), but he also has amazing skill. That's why even when his talent and reflexes fade a bit, he will still be an effective fighter.

Jones? No. As we've seen.

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Two other guys who don't quite make the cut, but are close:

#3: Fernando Vargas

- KO by ODLH
- KO by SSM

All the damage in both KO's were from huge left hooks, although neither was technically stopped from just that one shot. In both instances, however, Vargas was all-but-finished after the left hook landed

#4: Thomas Hearns

- KO by Marvin Hagler
- KO by Iran Barkley

Each of the finishing blows were from huge right hands. Barkley's KO was for all intents and purposes a 1-punch KO, although I believe the ref let the fight continue for like one or two more punches.

Hagler doesn't really count because Marvin had just tagged Hearns with a huge right hand which sent Hearns literally running/backpedaling around the ring. That punch landed about 5 seconds or so before the last right came crashing down, ending the fight with the ref stepping in to stop the action.
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Of course, Vargas isn't in the same class as Jones, Lewis and Hearns. But Hearns is one legendary fighther who comes very close to making this list. But not quite.

[Mook]

I think it was a simple jab that had LL rocking to the other side of the ring. A disgraceful loss, but the rematch - and, believe me, LL was no longer maturing like a fine wine - was stunning.

[paulfv]

School holidays is it?
Anyway, it depends how you define a one punch ko.
Lewis referred to the right hand which dropped him as a 'lottery punch.' In other words, to him it was a 1-punch KO. If you look at write-ups of the fight, it is referred to as a 1-punch KO.

You're right, to be totally accurate, the thread should be "1-punch KO'd/TKO'd." I figured most would understand what I was talking about and to be honest, I was running out of room for a title.

I guess the best way to qualify it is "getting stopped (KO/TKO) by 1 punch which results in a knockdown after which the fight is immediately stopped, with no other punches being thrown by either fighter. Also, there were no previous knockdowns in the round for the fighter who is 1-punch KO'd."

That's why Hearns and Vargas don't qualify, because each continued after being drilled (Hearns against Barkley, Vargas against both SSM and ODLH).

This is a very elite club, the 'excellent fighter with two 1-punch KO losses.' I'm really curious how many we can come up with.

[paulfv]

I've never seen this comparison before....better fighter, Roy Jones or Lennox Lewis...this could be a terrific debate..

I'm definitely with RJJ, though...I don't see much of a comparison. Roy's dominance was in line with Tyson's, pre-Douglas. Nobody in their right mind ever picked against these guys in their prime. They were so far superior.

I pick RJJ over LL

I totally agree.

[barneyrub]

With the referee from the Lewis Mccall fight then holmes would very well have been stopped versus snipes and shavers. He was in the same if not worse state as Lewis in that fight.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] -at 02.17 [Shavers]

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Lets not forget that wlad got a 13 second count against sanders at the first knockdown!

[Mook]

I think LL is more significant historically, but RJJ was absolutely brilliant.

If people were properly picky over what constitutes an ATG, these would be the only locks from the past decade or so, imo

[paulfv]

With the referee from the Lewis Mccall fight then holmes would very well have been stopped versus snipes and shavers. He was in the same if not worse state as Lewis in that fight.

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Lets not forget that wlad got a 13 second count against sanders at the first knockdown!

Now, see, that's a real argument. Nice job, refraining from 'You're a moron, I can't think of anything to say!' junk.

Of all 4 KO losses between Lewis and Jones, the McCall KO of Lewis is the only one which could, IMO, be legitiamtely be argued that it was stopped too soon. I think it's a weak argument - Lewis was totally glossed, IMO - but at least it's an argument.

Well done! :happy

[Stewbear]

well since Lewis McCall was a TKO....

[paulfv]

Here's the YouTube link for Lewis-McCall I, judge for yourself if it was stopped too soon (don't want to post the whole thing here b/c it's about 9 minutes long and would take a lot of bandwidth):

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[paulfv]

well since Lewis McCall was a TKO....

Please see reply #15 :)

Jones-Tarver II was a TKO, too, wasn't it?

[paulfv]

For BarneyRub and Stewbear:

You have forced me to change the thread title -- you win!!

:thumbsup

[Mook]

always thought the McCall stoppage was a dreadful, dreadful one.

Still, LL would have probably boxed his way to a UD and then never hooked up with Manny

[Stewbear]

For BarneyRub and Stewbear:

You have forced me to change the thread title -- you win!!

:thumbsup
lol I think the point trying to make was Lewis got up:D and was a terrible stoppage
also I always thought that knockout said a lot about jones' chin because it is very over rated and didnt look that devestating

[Stewbear]

Also just watched Jones johnson again and that little pussy right hand to the year had jones down for how long!
In his prime Jones was brilliant some of the best reflexes ever, but Lewis fought far better competition and was hit with thunderous shots throughout his career two of which put him down and one for the count.
Also just comapring the stoppages jones walks away stumbling to the corner at 10 while Lewis is up before 8 and walks towards the referee with his hands held up/

[paulfv]

Also just watched Jones johnson again and that little pussy right hand to the ear had jones down for how long!
He was still messed up like 15 minutes later, no joke.

Lewis' KO loss to Rhaman wasn't close to as bad as Jones' KO loss to Johnson.

[Danny Ocean]

lennox over jones every day of the week

Lewis

Klitschko
Tua
Holyfield
Mercer
Morrison
Golota
Tucker
Ruddock


Jones Jr

Toney
Hopkins
Ruiz
Griffin
TarverHarding
Hill
Mccallum


no contest lewis has a better record

[paulfv]

lennox over jones every day of the week

Lewis

Klitschko
Tua
Holyfield
Mercer
Morrison
Golota
Tucker
Ruddock


Jones Jr

Toney
Hopkins
Ruiz
Griffin
TarverHarding
Hill
Mccallum


no contest lewis has a better record

You're not talking about this phenomenon, are you:


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***********Roy & the hobos************

[Zakman]

Who was greater? Jones, of course. His two one-punch KO losses came at the END of his career, not in the heart of it. And it took better guys to get him out of there, even though he was clearly past his prime.

[thesandman]

Who was greater? Jones, of course. His two one-punch KO losses came at the END of his career, not in the heart of it. And it took better guys to get him out of there, even though he was clearly past his prime.

How old was Jones v Johnson and Tarver?

How old was Lewis v Rahman???


And neither Johnson or Tarver are a great deal better than Rahman and McCall respectively IMO. All 4 are best known for beating the 2 guys this thread is about!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO way was the Rahman fight in the heart of Lewis career. He was about 35, and after the rematch only had 2 more fights left!

[Zakman]

How old was Jones v Johnson and Tarver?

How old was Lewis v Rahman???

And neither Johnson or Tarver are a great deal better than Rahman and McCall respectively IMO. All 4 are best known for beating the 2 guys this thread is about!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO way was the Rahman fight in the heart of Lewis career. He was about 35, and after the rematch only had 2 more fights left!

Age is just a number, what counts is how much they had left. Their subsequent careers indicate where they were respectively.

And was Lewis not considered the best HW in the world in 2001??? Did he not supposedly prove that when he knocked out Rahman? Clearly, he had a lot left.

Tarver was a touted contender for Jones' title long before he actually beat him. He was also a highly regarded amateur. Johnson, it is true, is more on the level of McCall and Rahman, but he's proven over the long run to be a better fighter.

[Amsterdam]

I agree with that. Johnson and Tarver were both top class LHW's, Johnson still being one in fact.

Rahman and McCall are always 2nd raters, McCall at the time of KOing Lewis was almost considered a journeyman.

[PIRA]

Who was greater? Jones, of course. His two one-punch KO losses came at the END of his career, not in the heart of it. And it took better guys to get him out of there, even though he was clearly past his prime.

Zakman,


No way can their level of comp be compared. It can be quite legitimately argued that Jones' KO's came at the end of the career that-should-have-been-but-never-was. Jones fought to the level of cash on offer rather than legacy - many is the fan that wishes Jones had stepped up and faced all a' la Lennox rather than take the route he did.

[thesandman]

I agree with that. Johnson and Tarver were both top class LHW's, Johnson still being one in fact.

Rahman and McCall are always 2nd raters, McCall at the time of KOing Lewis was almost considered a journeyman.

Is McCall not NOW currently a mandatory challenger for the WBC?

Does that equal "top class" or not? Rahman held the belt again how long ago??


(Don't take that as me being a Rock fan. He's the biggest waste of 'some' talent there is.)

And was Lewis not considered the best HW in the world in 2001???

And what was Roy considered in the first KO loss to Tarver?? best, second best? What?


I can be convinced either way with a good argument. But comparison of opponents I find very similar. Johnson for years was considered the true definition of journeyman.

[PIRA]

I agree with that. Johnson and Tarver were both top class LHW's, Johnson still being one in fact.

Rahman and McCall are always 2nd raters, McCall at the time of KOing Lewis was almost considered a journeyman.

But look at the KO - a wild shot with the eyes closed does not equal class - it equals luck. Over a long career luck can desert you at any point in the fight game - combine that with a poor stoppage and you have Lewis-McCall.

BTW McCall for a "journeyman" back then has had a remarkable reinvigoration hasn't he - or maybe the HW's are that shit today.

[tays001]

i would say rjj is by far the better fighter

[Snakefist]

Wow people think the Johnson fight was a 1-punch KO? Lol he was kicking Roy's ass from the start of the first bell to the 9th. I don't consider that a 1 punch I consider that Roy getting hit repeatedly over and over again flush, then getting hurt and getting smashed. The Tarver KO is definitely 1 punch material, until that point Roy was winning the fight.

[CASH_718]

You are a moron of the highest order :goodno he's right. Roy's skills weren't so great he was very unconventional and made alot of mistakes in the ring but his speed and reflexs always made up for it.

[thesandman]

Who was greater? Jones, of course. His two one-punch KO losses came at the END of his career, not in the heart of it. And it took better guys to get him out of there, even though he was clearly past his prime.

His first KO loss came about a year after beating Ruiz for the heavy title, when everyone was proclaiming RJJ as God himself.

Once again, you're skewing facts and slanting things one way for one guy, but not giving the SAME criteria to other guy.

[paulfv]

no he's right. Roy's skills weren't so great he was very unconventional and made alot of mistakes in the ring but his speed and reflexs always made up for it.
Thanks. It's always nice to talk to a fellow boxing fan who actually knows what he is talking about. :)

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For those who were saying Jones - Johnson was not a 1-punch KO, take a look for yourself:

0o0c8fXHp-4&v3

You'll notice RJJ is totally fine - not hurt, not shaken, nothing - until he takes a crunching right hand. If that isn't a 1-punch KO, nothing is, IMO.

[paulfv]

Can anyone think of any other excellent fighters who could go on this list? There have to be some old-timers, I would imagine.

[paulfv]

Who was greater? Jones, of course.

Totally agree