Besides Marciano which all time greats retired too SOON...

[Action]

.....walked away from the money and didn't come back.
Those who had unfinished business versus a potential opponent or had no viable challenges?

[Russell]

Lennox Lewis. I would of loved to see him fight one last time.

Jeffries.

[apollack]

James J. Jeffries
Gene Tunney
Marvin Hagler
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis

[Marciano Frazier]

Marciano didn't retire too soon. He retired at just the right time.

[Lefty Supremacy]

Roberto Dur- *gets shot*

[Dempsey1238]

Lewis retire at the right time also imo.

[Hatesrats]

Marvin Hagler

[PowerPuncher]

Naseem Hamed, 27, but couldnt be assed with the sport anymore

[Action]

Most of the champions of the old days retired at around age 32. Jeffries, Dempsey, Tunney, Baer, Braddock, Marciano. I think they were wise to do so, avoiding all the physical disabilities that come along with fighting until age 40. I wish Ali had kept his word and retired after he beat Foreman. Everything he did after that was superfluous.

It would have been great to have Ali retire after that fight and be one of the most influencial spokesman in all of sports and an ambassador of boxing however what we don't know is if it would have made a difference with his health but I suspect that it would have. At the very least our memories of him would be one of a superman.

[Dempsey1238]

I think the Frazier fights and George Foreman would the major causes imo. Perhaps had Ali retire after Foreman, he still would have decline(Maybe slower perhaps)

[mcvey]

Marciano didn't retire too soon. He retired at just the right time.
I agree.

[McGrain]

Roberto Dur- *gets shot*

:lol:

Charley Burley, he retired far to soon. Went to work for the city, basic problems getting fights, bad management. Travesty.

[mcvey]

Naseem Hamed, 27, but couldnt be assed with the sport anymore
He had met reality in the form of MAB!

[mcvey]

.....walked away from the money and didn't come back.
Those who had unfinished business versus a potential opponent or had no viable challenges?
Jeffries
Tunney

[Mantequilla]

Ernesto Marcel

[TommyRyan44]

Tunney definately. I wish Lewis had stuck around so we could have an undisputed heavywieght champ.

[Russell]

Tunney had over 80 fights. I don't know if I'd call that a short career.

Not to mention him and Dempsey were the same age give or take very little but no one's mentioned Dempsey here.

[mcvey]

Tunney had over 80 fights. I don't know if I'd call that a short career.

Not to mention him and Dempsey were the same age give or take very little but no one's mentioned Dempsey here.
They were the same age but not in ring mileage,Dempsey had softened over the years mixing with movie stars. I think Tunney retired because there wasnt a real big money fight on the horizon ,of the top four Wills was a bit past it, he had beaten Dempsey ,Uzcudun wasnt a draw and Sharkey went and got held to a draw so Tunney married his heiress and retired

[Dempsey1238]

Lewis was in his 40's. It was about the right time to retire, if not earlier lol.

[guilalah]

Jeffries. Well, I wish he would have fought Johnson. I don't think any white opponents were generating interest, and the concern was Jeffries would be rusty by the time a matchup came along the public would be interested in. I do get the impression a mid 1900's Jeffries-Johnson would have generated interest.

Tunney, I don't want to criticize, as I've read he had eye issues. It's true that 1-to-3 more fights, against top contention, would bolster his standing (if he'd prevailed).

[jimmie]

Aaron Pryor.

[SuzieQ49]

I think Tunney retired because there wasnt a real big money fight on the horizon

not a real big money fight? their were top 2 ranked contenders, both hall of fame heavyweights 6'3 225lb george godfrey and 6'0 200lb jack sharkey, both hall of famers hungry for a title shot. Both would have been the biggest men tunney ever fought.

[SuzieQ49]

Jeffries retired too young, I mean 18 fights? come on. only 29 years old? with jack johnson sam mcvea joe jenette emerging?

[The Mighty One]

Did Calzaghe have another challenge or not? Or did he conquer everthing....Kessler, Jones, Hopkins....

I say he retired at a perfect time.

[Tin_Ribs]

Yoko Gushiken.

[TommyV]

Marciano didn't retire too soon. He retired at just the right time.

Exactly. Same with Lewis.

[SuzieQ49]

Lennox and Marciano retired both at the right time...coming off big victories over their # 1 contender.


Jeffries retired at age 29, but his last fight was wasted on a goof trooper Jake Munroe instead of a Jack Johnson or Marvin Hart.

Tunney retired at age 31, but I think he should have fought Godfrey/Sharkey before retiring. He wasted his last defense on a goof trooper Tom Heeney. I understand Heeney won that "elimination" tournament, but that mini tournament was very corrupt in the first place. It purposely excluded George Godfrey out of fear of a black man possibly winning the tournament, despite the fact he was supposed to fight Knute Hanson in the first round. Also Heeney-Sharkey was never rematched after that scandalous draw.

[red cobra]

None of then retired too soon...in fact most of them don't know how to retire..the ones with the wisdom to retire at the top know what they're doing...they know that the fans will always come up with yet another hill for them to climb..they're never satisfied.

[bruthead]

None of then retired too soon.

:deal

[Stevie G]

I think the Frazier fights and George Foreman would the major causes imo. Perhaps had Ali retire after Foreman, he still would have decline(Maybe slower perhaps)
I've always said that it would have been great if Ali had retired after Manila '75. He had nothing at all to prove after that. Who knows ? Maybe his health would inded have been better today.

[Stevie G]

Lewis was in his 40's. It was about the right time to retire, if not earlier lol.
Lennox Lewis was in his thirty eighth year when he had his last fight with Vitali Klitschko. It was certainly the right time for him to go.

[mcvey]

James J. Jeffries
Gene Tunney
Marvin Hagler
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
I can't see where Lewis and Hagler retired too soon, both were going back imo.
Jeffries and Tunney, are good shouts though.:good

[he grant]

Tunney and Marciano were both very smart and very disciplined ... both quit at the perfect time ... Gene may have been able to keep at the top of his game longer but Rocky knew for every reason from his manager torturing him to his body breaking down to his lack of desire that it was time .. he was about to enter the phase to of his reign and did not want that ... Tunney simply had enough .. he was never in love with the game. He made a ton of bread and he had other options ... I would have liked to see him against Sharkey and feel it would have been a defining moment for his career ..

[PowerPuncher]

Did Calzaghe have another challenge or not? Or did he conquer everthing....Kessler, Jones, Hopkins....

I say he retired at a perfect time.

Chad Dawson was the legacy fight for him, but Chad wasn't a massive draw and Calzaghe was fading and probably would lose

[SuzieQ49]

Tunney and Marciano were both very smart and very disciplined ... both quit at the perfect time ... Gene may have been able to keep at the top of his game longer but Rocky knew for every reason from his manager torturing him to his body breaking down to his lack of desire that it was time .. he was about to enter the phase to of his reign and did not want that ... Tunney simply had enough .. he was never in love with the game. He made a ton of bread and he had other options ... I would have liked to see him against Sharkey and feel it would have been a defining moment for his career ..


Good Post. I agree with everything. :good

[PowerPuncher]

Hagler retired way too soon, why not get a Hearns rematch, a Lalonde/Hill fight at 175, a Kalambay/McCallum fight. Then he could constantly call Leonard a pussy who got a gift for not rematching him. If he admitted he lost Leonard might even have given him a rematch

[PowerPuncher]

I would have liked to have seen Lennox shut up the Klit fanatics, he was past it but beat Vitali once while out of shape, maybe he thought he just couldn't turn the clock back

[SuzieQ49]

I wish Lennox would have fought Wladimir in early 2003...when Wlad had been # 1 ring magazine contender for 2 straight years.

I would have liked to have seen Lennox shut up the Klit fanatics, he was past it but beat Vitali once while out of shape, maybe he thought he just couldn't turn the clock back

Lennox beat Vitali in the worst possible condition of his career, while vitali was in his best condition. This does not look good for Vitali.

[PowerPuncher]

I wish Lennox would have fought Wladimir in early 2003...when Wlad had been # 1 ring magazine contender for 2 straight years.

Lennox beat Vitali in the worst possible condition of his career, while vitali was in his best condition. This does not look good for Vitali.


I wish Lennox fought Wlad before Sanders got to him because it would have been a great win on his resume. Wlad certainly hadn't been Ring no1 for 2 straight years though and if he beat Sanders it would likely be him who got the Lennox fight

May 2001 Title Vacant

Lennox Lewis ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Mike Tyson ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Kirk Johnson ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Evander Holyfield ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
David Tua ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Wladimir Klitschko ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Oleg Maskaev ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Michael Grant ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Hasim Rahman ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Chris Byrd ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[SuzieQ49]

I wish Lennox fought Wlad before Sanders got to him because it would have been a great win on his resume. Wlad certainly hadn't been Ring no1 for 2 straight years though and if he beat Sanders it would likely be him who got the Lennox fight

May 2001 Title Vacant

Lennox Lewis ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Mike Tyson ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Kirk Johnson ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Evander Holyfield ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
David Tua ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Wladimir Klitschko ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Oleg Maskaev ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Michael Grant ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Hasim Rahman ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Chris Byrd ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


Thanks for that. I stand corrected. Then how did Wladimir rise from # 6 all the way up to # 1 by the end of the year? Wladimir was the Ring Magazine # 1 at the year end annuel ratings in 2001 and 2002.

This seems very similiar to the Nino Valdes case with Marciano.

[mcvey]

Hagler retired way too soon, why not get a Hearns rematch, a Lalonde/Hill fight at 175, a Kalambay/McCallum fight. Then he could constantly call Leonard a pussy who got a gift for not rematching him. If he admitted he lost Leonard might even have given him a rematch
Hagler was going back imo,his abilities were declining.

[mcvey]

Tunney and Marciano were both very smart and very disciplined ... both quit at the perfect time ... Gene may have been able to keep at the top of his game longer but Rocky knew for every reason from his manager torturing him to his body breaking down to his lack of desire that it was time .. he was about to enter the phase to of his reign and did not want that ... Tunney simply had enough .. he was never in love with the game. He made a ton of bread and he had other options ... I would have liked to see him against Sharkey and feel it would have been a defining moment for his career ..

I agree.

[hobgoblin]

marciano and lennox lewis both retired on time! retiring after taking a beating because you're past it is no way to go.

[Vantage_West]

Lennox against Wlad and Byrd possibly but he was showing his age against vitality just using his strength and reach to get to vitali.

Lennox vs wlad would of meant a lot in hindsight.



But retiring is a mental thing. If you are considering retiring then you're not in a right mind to fight. Lost hunger I guess.

[ricardoparker93]

Ernesto Marcel was at the top of his game, mid twenties and just retired.. does anyone know why?

[tommygun711]

Lennox against Wlad and Byrd possibly but he was showing his age against vitality just using his strength and reach to get to vitali.

Lennox vs wlad would of meant a lot in hindsight.



But retiring is a mental thing. If you are considering retiring then you're not in a right mind to fight. Lost hunger I guess.

Wouldn't you give it to Lennox at the time?
I think Wlad wouldn't be able to take his shots, he was very green at the time that this fight was being negotiated.
I don't think Lennox should've stayed, but it would've been awesome, he was the last great ATG heavyweight, him or Tyson.

[janitor]

Jeffries retired too young, I mean 18 fights? come on. only 29 years old? with jack johnson sam mcvea joe jenette emerging?

Jeffries in my opinion, continued to improve right up to the second Corbett fight and possibly beyond.

Damn shame he didn't decide to take a few more fights.

[red cobra]

Since Rocky Marciano isnt great I dont know why he is on this list, Wait never mind I know why Marciano is on every single list.


Marciano ISN'T on your list for the same reason.

[janitor]

Since Rocky Marciano isnt great I dont know why he is on this list, Wait never mind I know why Marciano is on every single list.


Rocky Marciano has been dead for the best part of 50 years and you still spend much of your spare time obsessing about him. You are his most vitriolic critic, but in a bizare way he owns you.

If that isnt a mark of historical impact then I dont know what is.

[Son of Gaul]

Marciano didn't retire too soon. He retired at just the right time.

Agreed, if he stayed around any longer he would have to fight Liston or Patterson at some point and we all know how either of those two fights would have turned out...:-(. Of course he would have made a fortune fighting Liston but preserving his undefeated record would have been the bigger priority IMO...

[tommygun711]

Since Rocky Marciano isnt great I dont know why he is on this list, Wait never mind I know why Marciano is on every single list.

The correct answer would be none. Most greats retired when they should of retired but there were tons of fighters who retired after losing one fight who werent considered greats but were good prospects.

What's your top 10 heavyweight list KenNorton? :think
I have to say, your opinions are quite original to say the least.. underrating Liston, and even underrating Marciano.

[Dempsey1238]

Agreed, if he stayed around any longer he would have to fight Liston or Patterson at some point and we all know how either of those two fights would have turned out...:-(. Of course he would have made a fortune fighting Liston but preserving his undefeated record would have been the bigger priority IMO...


I not sure Marciano would have made the 4 years undfeated waiting for Liston to come, I pretty sure Marciano would have lost shortly before Sonny came on the scene.

[SuzieQ49]

Rocky Marciano has been dead for the best part of 50 years and you still spend much of your spare time obsessing about him. You are his most vitriolic critic, but in a bizare way he owns you.

If that isnt a mark of historical impact then I dont know what is.

:pwned Ken Norton

[SuzieQ49]

I think Marciano beats everyone in 56...but loses by 57 to one of the faster younger boxer types like possibly eddie machen.

[Boilermaker]

I think Marciano beats everyone in 56...but loses by 57 to one of the faster younger boxer types like possibly eddie machen.

Eddie Machen isnt a bad fighter but not championship quality. I cant see Rocky losing to him. Hed find a way to win.

I wonder if one of those 1956 victims would include Marty Marshall?

That leaves patterson in 56/57, but can anyone really see him beating rocky with his chin? I say rocky pulls one out of the fire and still beats old age by retiring.

[bodhi]

Eckhard Dagge - also he had a comeback a few years later, didn´t went well though
Henry Maske

[johnmaff36]

all my picks have been dealt with already so im gonna throw this name in. I know he aint an ATG and i dont know the reasons behind his retiring so soon, but would Leo Randolph kinda qualify here?

[Unforgiven]

Most of the fighters mentioned actually retired at the right time, or a fight TOO LATE.

Lennox Lewis definitely retired too late. He shouldn't have bothered with the Vitali fight, or Kirk Johnson (who he was original scheduled to meet). He looked very bad in his last fight. He would have been better off going off on the Tyson mega-payday.
Some people say that having Vitali on his resume enhances his legacy quite a bit, but the counter-argument is that Vitali's reputation was boosted immensely because of Lewis struggling to beat him.

Gene Tunney retired and married an heiress. In fact, I think he had promised her he'd retire. Tunney was already rich, and he was marrying into a very rich dynasty. With Dempsey retired, there was nothing in boxing that could pay Tunney the kind of income he could develop elsewhere. No incentive to carry on boxing.

[janitor]

Eddie Machen isnt a bad fighter but not championship quality. I cant see Rocky losing to him. Hed find a way to win.

I wonder if one of those 1956 victims would include Marty Marshall?

That leaves patterson in 56/57, but can anyone really see him beating rocky with his chin? I say rocky pulls one out of the fire and still beats old age by retiring.

Marciano is the type of fighter who would loose on the day when he got a bit too old to find a way to win this time.

I suspect that whenever it happened it would have been a bit of an upset.

[DamonD]

If Lewis went out possibly, arguably, just one fight too late than that's a lot closer to perfect than so many fighters sadly mentioned.

It is very understandable, emtionally and financially, why it is so extremely difficult for even a great to retire; perhaps even more so for a great to retire. There's always one more payday and one more fight and one more cheering crowd, and the temptation to take one more bite of the pie is overwhelming.

I wish Holyfield had retired after the Byrd loss.
What he's gained since is not as much as he's lost.

[Hookie]

.....walked away from the money and didn't come back.
Those who had unfinished business versus a potential opponent or had no viable challenges?

Gene Tunney 81-1-2 (48byKO)... depending on the source, but the bottom line is that he only lost once.

He retired at age 31. He had only lost once (decision loss to Harry Greb who he went 3-1-1 vs. lifetime) and he was never stopped. He went 3-0 (1) in HW World Title Fights.

Among others, he beat-

Tom Heeney KO11
Jack Dempsey x2 W10 x2
Tommy Gibbons KO12
Harry Greb x5 (L15, W15, W15, D10, W10)
Georges Carpentier KO15
Tommy Loughran W8
Battling Levinsky W12
Leo Houck x2 W10 and W6

I think Tunney had plenty of fight left in him. Had he not retired he would have most likely faced-

Jack Sharkey, Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, and Max Baer. He may have even faced Paulino Uzcudun, Ernie Schaaf, King Levinsky, and other tough HWs of the day.

How would he have done?

I think he still could have retired as HW Champ with just that one loss on his record.

[SuzieQ49]

Jack Sharkey, Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, and Max Baer. He may have even faced Paulino Uzcudun, Ernie Schaaf, King Levinsky, and other tough HWs of the day.

How would he have done?

I think he still could have retired as HW Champ with just that one loss on his record.


Pretty Bold. I don't think their is any evidence Tunney is better than Sharkey and Schmeling as heavyweights.

[Hookie]

Jemal Hinton looked like he was on his way to a World Title Fight but retired at 22-0 (17) for religious reasons. He held the WBC Continental Americas SBW belt and made 4 before vacating it.

[Dempsey1238]

Gene Tunney 81-1-2 (48byKO)... depending on the source, but the bottom line is that he only lost once.

He retired at age 31. He had only lost once (decision loss to Harry Greb who he went 3-1-1 vs. lifetime) and he was never stopped. He went 3-0 (1) in HW World Title Fights.

Among others, he beat-

Tom Heeney KO11
Jack Dempsey x2 W10 x2
Tommy Gibbons KO12
Harry Greb x5 (L15, W15, W15, D10, W10)
Georges Carpentier KO15
Tommy Loughran W8
Battling Levinsky W12
Leo Houck x2 W10 and W6

I think Tunney had plenty of fight left in him. Had he not retired he would have most likely faced-

Jack Sharkey, Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, and Max Baer. He may have even faced Paulino Uzcudun, Ernie Schaaf, King Levinsky, and other tough HWs of the day.

How would he have done?

I think he still could have retired as HW Champ with just that one loss on his record.


Tunney was getting older though, and was pasting his peak, I pretty sure one of these guys would be the man to dethorn Tunney, my money would be on Schmeling.

[Hookie]

Pretty Bold. I don't think their is any evidence Tunney is better than Sharkey and Schmeling as heavyweights.

Sharkey gave Dempsey and Schmeling problems but I think Tunney would have been able to outbox Sharkey in a close fight.

Schmeling and Baer were good fighters as well but I think Tunney was better.

Tunney had a great chin, good stamina, and he was a very technical fighter. Baer's only chance would be by KO and I don't see that happening.

On Schmeling's best day he was at the very most as good as the versions of Jack Dempsey who Tunney beat in '26 and '27... but not better!

Just my opinion on the subject

[SuzieQ49]

Tunney had a great chin

At 175lb..Yes. At heavyweight? we don't know. He only fought one puncher, who put him down for 14 seconds. He never fought a heavyweight above 203lb, and only had 10 fights at heavyweight. I would say his chin is unproven as elite against heavyweight punchers.

good stamina, and he was a very technical fighter

Yes and Yes. But so were Sharkey and Schmeling. Schmeling hit harder than Tunney too.

Baer's only chance would be by KO and I don't see that happening.

If an Old Jack Dempsey can get to Tunney's chin, Baer has a live chance. Baer was also 6'3 210lb, something Tunney had never seen before. Tunney had a style that allowed him to do better against smaller men, where he could stay on the outside and utilize his long physical advantages. But against men who are taller and longer than him, I think he will have a lot of trouble.


On Schmeling's best day he was at the very most as good as the versions of Jack Dempsey who Tunney beat in '26 and '27... but not better!

No Way. Jack Sharkey pounded the shit out of Dempsey for 6 rounds before dempsey illegally hit him with a shot to the balls(that should have got him DQed). Schmeling on his best day knocked out a prime joe louis, who is a far better fighter than a old jack dempsey. I think Schmeling knocks out a 1926 jack dempsey.

Just my opinion too

[Hookie]

who knows? Sharkey should have fought Tunney in '27 like you said though.

[SuzieQ49]

who knows? Sharkey should have fought Tunney in '27 like you said though.

Agreed. I favor Tunney slightly. It would have been a GREAT win for Tunney to have on his resume.

[dmt]

Tunney had over 80 fights. I don't know if I'd call that a short career.

Not to mention him and Dempsey were the same age give or take very little but no one's mentioned Dempsey here.
i read in an article written by tunney a few years ago that dempsey had some problem in his eyes and jack was afraid of going blind, not sure if its true or not.

[Son of Gaul]

I think Marciano beats everyone in 56...but loses by 57 to one of the faster younger boxer types like possibly eddie machen.

Don't forget about Floyd Patterson. He was in his prime and a top contender when Rocky retired.

[Son of Gaul]

Pretty Bold. I don't think their is any evidence Tunney is better than Sharkey and Schmeling as heavyweights.

I think there's enough evidence that he's better than Sharkey but Schmeling...:-(

[Dempsey1238]

Don't forget about Floyd Patterson. He was in his prime and a top contender when Rocky retired.


Prime?? Maybe?? Top contender when Rocky retired, Hell no. He was not even in the top ten by the time Marciano retire in April 27 1956.

I do have the Ring Mag that has the Rock's retirement. And they brought along the top ten on that list. Saw no Patterson. He was mention as a suppose champion to be, but he didnt do any thing to get top ten honors.

[SuzieQ49]

Don't forget about Floyd Patterson. He was in his prime and a top contender when Rocky retired.

Yes..I did not forget. I feel his brawling style in 56 would have gotten him knocked out, even by an old marciano, who was just too strong, powerful, and experienced for floyd. Floyd would have his moments though with his dazzling speed/combinations. I like floyd over Marciano in 58.

Also..when rocky retired in April 1956..Patterson was not a top contender. In fact, I don't even think he was rated in the top 10.

[punchy]

I think Tunney would have defeated Sharkey and Schmelling but these two are as said before arguably superior fighters to the Dempsey that he did fight I would also think that they were better than any fighter he has on his resume. That said Tunney was no bum and would be a hard man to beat.

[Unforgiven]

I wish Holyfield had retired after the Byrd loss.
What he's gained since is not as much as he's lost.

Why the Byrd loss ?
He should have retired in 1997, or 1999 at the latest, to have retained a fairly untarnished image on retirement.

[RockysSplitNose]

I guess not retired but I wish Jack Dempsey hadn't taken that 3 years off for the sake of hollywood.

[mcvey]

I guess not retired but I wish Jack Dempsey hadn't taken that 3 years off for the sake of hollywood.
I think its a certainty, that Jack regretted those 3 years ,when he was in with Sharkey and Tunney.

[Abdullah]

Muhammad Ali....j/k

[Mendoza]

James J. Jeffries
Gene Tunney
Marvin Hagler
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis


<<< What he said.

[The Mighty One]

Probably Marciano vs young Floyd Patterson fight would have been a great way for Rocky to go out.

[SuzieQ49]

Probably Marciano vs young Floyd Patterson fight would have been a great way for Rocky to go out.


Why? Floyd was not yet rated in the top 10 when Marciano retired. Not only was Marcianos last fight used up on the # 1 heavyweight contender, Archie Moore, but was used up on the man who was the clear favorite to replace him as heavyweight champion upon his retirement(Archie Moore). When Marciano retired in April of 1956, Floyd was still a 20 year old light-heavyweight. Had Marciano waited until after Floyd Patterson demolished Archie Moore before retiring, then you could have a case. But No one, including Marciano thought Floyd would do to Archie what he did. But that was all the way in Dec of 1956...Rocky wanted a fight in early-mid 1956..then to get out for good. To fight floyd, he would have argubably had to wait until 1957, where he would be near 34 and considerably past his prime.