Rocky Marciano vs. Muhammad Ali

[cross_trainer]

In honor of our recent breakdown...

Who wins?

[Bad_Intentions]

Ali - UD

[buzzsaw]

LOL!!! I was just kidding !

[Manassa]

Great, we have a crash and the first thing people do is flood the place with heavyweight rubbish :barf

Have a bit of originality!

[McGrain]

Great, we have a crash and the first thing people do is flood the place with heavyweight rubbish :barf

Have a bit of originality!

Go and write something in my MW/Foster thread then. And don't just pick Greb.


Ali cuts Rocky at some point and he gets pulled. I don't see it lasting longer than 8 under modern rules.

[Manassa]

Go and write something in my MW/Foster thread then. And don't just pick Greb.

Just because I'm stubborn and don't like people telling me what to do, I'm not going to post there until tomorrow now :bart

[McGrain]

Just because I'm stubborn and don't like people telling me what to do, I'm not going to post there until tomorrow now :bart

I'd love to be around when a woman finally breaks you of that attitude. That will be really funny.

[Ramon Rojo]

Ali by UD15 or late TKO

[freesix88]

KO from Rocky in the late rounds.

[Manassa]

I'd love to be around when a woman finally breaks you of that attitude. That will be really funny.

Over my dead body.

[McGrain]

Over my dead body.

There are four types of men in the world my friend, and only four:

Lonely
Gay
Bastards
The rest of, who do what they're told.

Make your choice, do it carefully.

EDIT: Additionally, you get some Lonely Gay Bastards, but it's subcategory rather than a category.

[BobDigi5060]

Ali. Rocky is highly overrated and never fought anyone comparible to Ali who was close to their prime.

Ali stops in on cuts late or wins a big UD.

[groove]

I think peak Frazier would beat Rocky so i can't see Ali losing. Probably another Ali UD cuz Rocky is very tough.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Great, we have a crash and the first thing people do is flood the place with heavyweight rubbish :barf

Have a bit of originality!


Like a stomach cramps thread ;)

[jc]

Ali UD Marciano.

Young Alii was a superior boxer imo. I think he could wel box his way to victory on this one. The older Ali rope a dope wouldnt work as such as a KO win is concerned as rockys stamina was second to none, but the rope a dope was more than just lying on the ropes, Ali blocked, parryd and slipped while on the ropes aswel as countering with accurate scoring punches. i think he could beat Marcinao either way tbh.

[Rattler]

Marciano never catches Ali enough over the duration of the fight, to grind down Ali's chin or ribs.

Ali makes a run over the final four rounds, to earn a UD (10-5)

[Dempsey1238]

Marciano outswarms Ali, and pins him on the ropes to SD Ali.

[Manassa]

Like a stomach cramps thread ;)

Not quite.

[Manassa]

If you don't like people telling you what to do, then why did you come here telling people what to do?

Because I can, now fuck off :good

[Dostoevsky]

Ali UD over marciano.

Marciano is too slow and wild with his punches to get Ali, Ali dances around Rocky all night hitting him with lighting fast jabs and straight rights.
Rocky never faced anyone on the level of Ali.

[janitor]

I think it would be a draw and everybody on this site would bitterly protest the decision.

[Bummy Davis]

Both men had the ability to give each other lots of trouble, Ali with his movemnt and Rocky with his off-rythym- combo's that were hard to time, Rocky stamina would be the key in this fight and his double hook would be used more because Ali was open to it, I see the fight looking close to Ali-Frazier 1 except that Marciano also had a killer right and instead of leaning in bent back low making it hard for a fighter to reach in and punch without committing and being countered, no one can really say who would win but it would be a war for 10 rounds, I see Marciano getting stronger over the last 5 rounds

[Luigi1985]

Marciano UD Ali


9-6 rounds

[C. M. Clay II]

Marciano UD Ali


9-6 rounds

:tired

[Luigi1985]

:tired


Sorry that I´m not a fanatic Ali groupie, I saw what a Frazier did to him, and not only in my opinion Marciano is a bit better version of him...

[C. M. Clay II]

Sorry that I´m not a fanatic Ali groupie, I saw what a Frazier did to him, and not only in my opinion Marciano is a bit better version of him...

I also saw what M. Spinks did to Holmes, but that doesn't mean he beats the prime version now does it?:rolleyes:

No offense, but it's just that now I find you so predictable. It's used to be interesting, but now it's monotonous and you should know that the novelty has now worn off.

Maybe you're not an "Ali groupie", but being a Marciano groupie is not that much different.:good

[Luigi1985]

I also saw what M. Spinks did to Holmes, but that doesn't mean he beats the prime version now does it?:rolleyes:

No offense, but it's just that now I find you so predictable. It's used to be interesting, but now it's monotonous and you should know that the novelty has now worn off.

Maybe you're not an "Ali groupie", but being a Marciano groupie is not that much different.:good


I´m no Marciano-groupie when I pick him to win a fantasy matchup. You write exactly the things others write to you, I read a similar post from someone at boxingsc. forum who wrote that you´re so predictable, etc., it´s kind of funny, like here, I write to you something and you counter with exactly the same stuff... :lol:

[brownpimp88]

I also saw what M. Spinks did to Holmes, but that doesn't mean he beats the prime version now does it?:rolleyes:

No offense, but it's just that now I find you so predictable. It's used to be interesting, but now it's monotonous and you should know that the novelty has now worn off.

Maybe you're not an "Ali groupie", but being a Marciano groupie is not that much different.:good
How do we know a prime version of larry holmes would have beaten guys like spinks, tyson and holyfield? I mean a prime larry holmes barely beat ken norton and won a razor thin decision against witherspoon. Larry looks awesome on film but he dominated an extremely weak era. Which top level fighter has larry ever beaten in convincing fashion?

[Chaney]

I don't know who would win, but I am fairly confident it would be a great match...an all time classic bout, although there is a risk that Rocky may be stopped on cuts.

Rocky's swarming style would give Ali trouble, as would Rocky's two fisted power and durability. Ali would give any fighter who ever lived trouble.

Maybe it would be a 2-1 split if they fought a trilogy, like Ali vs Frazier.

[kenny weldon]

ROCKY MARCIANO stops Ali in five rounds or less .Ali could only throw punches of any significance while moving to his left . He stayed up over his left foot ninety percent of his fights .He was the worst fighter off the ropes than any champion of any kind in history . Marciano moved extremely well to his right,was hard to hit with a jab unless his opponent reached for him,while running into devestating right hands to the body and head both on the ropes and in the corners .Styles make fights and this one is one of the easiest in history to figure out,even for a knowledgable fan . COMMON SENSE FOLKS ! BUT THEN ,WHAT DOE'S COMMON SENSE HAVE TO DO WITH A BIASED BOXING FAN ?.....God bless.....kenny weldon...oh ,and you guys who think Marciano was too small ,forget it .This was an advantage with Ali ,who was made for Rocky ! Me not being an expert like battleing Burt Sugar may disqualify me though...

[C. M. Clay II]

ROCKY MARCIANO stops Ali in five rounds or less .Ali could only throw punches of any significance while moving to his left . He stayed up over his left foot ninety percent of his fights .He was the worst fighter off the ropes than any champion of any kind in history . Marciano moved extremely well to his right,was hard to hit with a jab unless his opponent reached for him,while running into devestating right hands to the body and head both on the ropes and in the corners .Styles make fights and this one is one of the easiest in history to figure out,even for a knowledgable fan . COMMON SENSE FOLKS ! BUT THEN ,WHAT DOE'S COMMON SENSE HAVE TO DO WITH A BIASED BOXING FAN ?.....God bless.....kenny weldon...oh ,and you guys who think Marciano was too small ,forget it .This was an advantage with Ali ,who was made for Rocky ! Me not being an expert like battleing Burt Sugar may disqualify me though...

:rofl

[C. M. Clay II]

I´m no Marciano-groupie when I pick him to win a fantasy matchup.

Which is every time.:rolleyes:

[Luigi1985]

Which is every time.:rolleyes:



What´s wrong with picking a fighter who was unbeaten, beat all his fighters fair and well (not with strange decisions), KO´d all his HOF- opponents and never struggled that much with every type of fighter? He didn´t need 100 excusses, everytime another why he lost or needed corrupt and false judges. IMO it´s just normal that a kind of this fighter is automatically favoured against most HW´s in history. I AM LEGEND is right in some parts of his post, some HW´s from the 70s just have their legacies because they fought in the most overrated HW era ever, where there is even today still the biggest propaganda...

[Jbuz]

Ali UD.

All of these matchups have to be done again because of the crash.

[fists of fury]

Good matchup. Great matchup actually.

Which Ali are we talking about? In any event, I see this as Ali-Frazier all over again. Yes, Ali was greased lightning and would probably walk the first three or four rounds with ease.
Ali though, lacks the power to keep Rocky off him and you darn well could bet the farm that Rocky would make a fight of it. At some point, his sheer ruggedness and relentlessness catches up to Ali, and we'd have another Thrilla in Manilla on our hands.
Ali would be catching Marciano with stinging jabs and right hands, and Rocky would be boring in and ripping punches to Ali's body. I see many fierce exchanges between the two men in a bout fought at a frantic pace. Both had indomitable spirits and iron chins, but one thing that could lead to Rocky's downfall is that he was prone to being cut, which against a sharpshooter like Ali spells disaster.

I think the fight is called off late with Ali the winner due to cuts. He'd probably be slightly ahead on the scorecards, but this would have been a war.

[Denny Cruser]

Pre-prisoned Ali has better chance to lose this one. He was quick and slick, but Marciano had good style to bring the pain :yep Ali had bad uppercuts and mediocre inside skills to overcome fantasctic Rocky inside workrate. Even young Clay coudnt run allnight long. It will be like Ali-Frazier 1 bout.
Post-prisoned Ali IMO to rough, strong and clever for Marciano and will run, hit and clinch as Ali-Frazier 2.

[jyuza]

ROCKY MARCIANO stops Ali in five rounds or less .Ali could only throw punches of any significance while moving to his left . He stayed up over his left foot ninety percent of his fights .He was the worst fighter off the ropes than any champion of any kind in history . Marciano moved extremely well to his right,was hard to hit with a jab unless his opponent reached for him,while running into devestating right hands to the body and head both on the ropes and in the corners .Styles make fights and this one is one of the easiest in history to figure out,even for a knowledgable fan . COMMON SENSE FOLKS ! BUT THEN ,WHAT DOE'S COMMON SENSE HAVE TO DO WITH A BIASED BOXING FAN ?.....God bless.....kenny weldon...oh ,and you guys who think Marciano was too small ,forget it .This was an advantage with Ali ,who was made for Rocky ! Me not being an expert like battleing Burt Sugar may disqualify me though...

Nobody knock Ali out. Nobody.

[RockyJim]

Ali hated swarmers...Rocky was the best of that breed....This was and is
my all time fantasy fight.....Ali would have to be moving every second of every round...he never did that.....Marciano gave you everything he had every second he was in that ring.He had a great chin...power...stamina...a never say die attitude...he was mentally tough.....very strong.....and I think that this combo is tough to beat with a left jab......stoppage on cuts? The Rock had a knack of coming up with the big punch when need be...and I think that if he thought that the fight was going to be stopped because of cuts...that he would find someway to prevail....as he had done before..as all of the great ones must do.....Take Marciano in this one! The ultimate PPV!!!!

[C. M. Clay II]

What´s wrong with picking a fighter who was unbeaten, beat all his fighters fair and well (not with strange decisions), KO´d all his HOF- opponents and never struggled that much with every type of fighter? He didn´t need 100 excusses, everytime another why he lost or needed corrupt and false judges. IMO it´s just normal that a kind of this fighter is automatically favoured against most HW´s in history. I AM LEGEND is right in some parts of his post, some HW´s from the 70s just have their legacies because they fought in the most overrated HW era ever, where there is even today still the biggest propaganda...

Buit when someone picks Ali to win anything, that means that they are "nuthuggers", who are blinded to the truth and know little about boxing history, right?

I smell double standard.:good

[McGrain]

Buit when someone picks Ali to win anything, that means that they are "nuthuggers", who are blinded to the truth and know little about boxing history, right?

Hey C.M.

That got me thinking - do you see anyone taking out a peak Ali? Like a stylistic cryptonite or someone like that?

[C. M. Clay II]

Hey C.M.

That got me thinking - do you see anyone taking out a peak Ali? Like a stylistic cryptonite or someone like that?

Well, I think Frazier or Tyson has the best chance of outpointing him, because of their speed and pressure. Holmes might also do it him being a good jabber and all. Also Jack Dempsey also because of his speed and dangerous left hook has a chance. Also a prime Sonny Liston has a fvairly good chance. To beat Ali first and foremost you had to have speed (feet and hands). To me that is the most important thing. That's why I won't give Marciano that much of a chance because that is something he didn't have. You can have all the determination and stamina and pressure in the world, but if you can't find the target then it is useless.:good

[McGrain]

Well, I think Frazier or Tyson has the best chance of outpointing him, because of their speed and pressure. Holmes might also do it him being a good jabber and all. Also Jack Dempsey also because of his speed and dangerous left hook has a chance. Also a prime Sonny Liston has a fvairly good chance. To beat Ali first and foremost you had to have speed (feet and hands). To me that is the most important thing. That's why I won't give Marciano that much of a chance because that is something he didn't have. You can have all the determination and stamina and pressure in the world, but if you can't find the target then it is useless.:good

Good post. The only guy I pick to beat him would be Louis. The guys I give a chance are Tyson, Frazier and possibly Jeffries, but I'd pick Ali to beat these guys. Another interesting one would be Hollyfield, though i'd be happy to lay money on Ali there - just be curious to see how Ali would deal with him

[C. M. Clay II]

Good post. The only guy I pick to beat him would be Louis. The guys I give a chance are Tyson, Frazier and possibly Jeffries, but I'd pick Ali to beat these guys. Another interesting one would be Hollyfield, though i'd be happy to lay money on Ali there - just be curious to see how Ali would deal with him

With all due respect I wouldn't give Louis that much of a chance either. He had handspeed, yes. But he had poor footspeed and he did not know how to apply the necessary effective agression needed to beat a speedster like Ali. He would have to make Ali trade with him, and without closing the gap, that would not happen.:good

[Dempsey1238]

Marciano had underated hand speed, and he knew how to cut the ring off pretty well. He could make a 18 foot ring seem like a phone booth in a few rounds. He feet work(Or sliding near the foe) keep him pretty close to there foe no matter how fast they were. Walcott and Charles with there speed hardly had any breating room in there fights with Marciano. Dundee said Marciano would look slow, but relly he was doing the left foot drag, he saw him do it vs Ali in that computer fight. Marciano would be able imo to keep up with Ali's foot speed.

[McGrain]

With all due respect I wouldn't give Louis that much of a chance either. He had handspeed, yes. But he had poor footspeed and he did not know how to apply the necessary effective agression needed to beat a speedster like Ali. He would have to make Ali trade with him, and without closing the gap, that would not happen.:good


My theory is this: Ali absoultley cannot trade with Louis. But Louis doesn't need a big "in" as he's been faced with that problem his entire career. When Ali starts to fade just a tiny bit around 8 or 9, Louis would get him.

But maybe we should avoid getting in to that here! After all we just had the "Louis-Ali" thread a couple of days back.

[Dr Z]

ROCKY MARCIANO stops Ali in five rounds or less .Ali could only throw punches of any significance while moving to his left . He stayed up over his left foot ninety percent of his fights .He was the worst fighter off the ropes than any champion of any kind in history . Marciano moved extremely well to his right,was hard to hit with a jab unless his opponent reached for him,while running into devestating right hands to the body and head both on the ropes and in the corners .Styles make fights and this one is one of the easiest in history to figure out,even for a knowledgable fan . COMMON SENSE FOLKS ! BUT THEN ,WHAT DOE'S COMMON SENSE HAVE TO DO WITH A BIASED BOXING FAN ?.....God bless.....kenny weldon...oh ,and you guys who think Marciano was too small ,forget it .This was an advantage with Ali ,who was made for Rocky ! Me not being an expert like battleing Burt Sugar may disqualify me though...

Well I'm not quite the trainer Kenny Weldon is, but I do beleive Ali was very skilled at throwing punches while moving backwards.

[fists of fury]

:lol: Lovely quote.

[Holmes' Jab]

Ali, by wide UD ....:good

[JIm Broughton]

ALI BY UD OR LATE ROUND STOPPAGE ON CUTS. This would be no cakewalk though, but Ali's height,reach and speed would be too much for the Rock. Now throw Jack Dempsey in there and you have a different story. Bob and weave with a vicious left hook/right hand combo and more speed = one tough night for Ali. Anyone out there in cyberland agree?

[Bummy Davis]

I think Dempsey with his bob and weave and POWERFUL HOOK,Marciano with his off timing swarms and six inch punches to the arms shoulders and head,double left hook, Louis with his killer instinct and power/combo's and hook all had a very good chance of having Ali's number. It would not be easy IMO but each one of these guys has a good shot of beating the other on a given night.Dont think Marciano would not be a very rough opponent for Ali, Joe Frazier said" Louis and Marciano would beat Ali and Ali could not rope-a -dope Marciano because Rocky would pummel his arms" Ali was one of the greats but he was not Superman as many who post here would like to think. a fifteen round fight with Marciano was never any fun for anyone.

[rekcutnevets]

Marciano never faced anyone like Ali. Never. Walcott could box, but he is a totally different style than Ali. The same way that Shane Mosley and Buddy McGirt are different. The same way that Mike McCallum and Roy Jones are different. Well saying same way is not really accurate, but my point is valid.

Ali would be able to light Marciano up in a way he had never seen before. His size and speed would just be too much to overcome. Some have said Ali couldn't run all night. Maybe he couldn't, but he would be able to run some of the night. He would also be able to handle himself when pressed against the ropes. It is not like he would just lay there and not fight back. Not if we are talking a prime Ali. I am not even trying to use this mythical prime Ali some have conjured. He did not start trying the just lay and not do anything method until after he faced Foreman.

Ali takes this one.

[Bummy Davis]

Marciano never faced anyone like Ali. Never. Walcott could box, but he is a totally different style than Ali. The same way that Shane Mosley and Buddy McGirt are different. The same way that Mike McCallum and Roy Jones are different. Well saying same way is not really accurate, but my point is valid.

Ali would be able to light Marciano up in a way he had never seen before. His size and speed would just be too much to overcome. Some have said Ali couldn't run all night. Maybe he couldn't, but he would be able to run some of the night. He would also be able to handle himself when pressed against the ropes. It is not like he would just lay there and not fight back. Not if we are talking a prime Ali. I am not even trying to use this mythical prime Ali some have conjured. He did not start trying the just lay and not do anything method until after he faced Foreman.

Ali takes this one.


Ali never faced anyone like Marciano, Frazier was the closest but did not have 2 fisted power and was not as awkward as the Rock fighting,short and leaning back,Marciano delived some freakish punches to good defensive fighters, who would match up to the Rock, Cooper, Spinks,Foreman had power but NO stamina,Norton only looked good against non-punchers. You would also see a lot of Left hooks and weird looking power shots from the Rock but Ali never faced a man with ALL the attributes of Marciano, Stamina, late power, two fisted power,Heart,will to win,recup power,and Killer instinct all wrapped up into one. It would be a great fight but not an easy one for anyone

[groove]

Marciano never faced anyone like Frazier or Foreman. Walcott was 38 or 39 when Marciano fought him. Do you know why there has hardly been any champions at that age? Weak era springs to mind.

[McGrain]

All due love and respect to Rocky but I can't see how he troubles Ali. The toll exacted on Rocky to get where he needed to be would be terrible. If for some reason Rocky didn't cut during the fight (seems unlikely) with his pride, stamina and chin he would take the most horrible beating ever seen in the ring.

Ali stops Rocky on cuts, I hope.

[pugilist_boyd]

Rocky Could Hit Much Harder Than Frazier,rocky Ko 10 -12 Rounds

[META5]

Rocky Could Hit Much Harder Than Frazier,rocky Ko 10 -12 Rounds

So could Foreman ... so could Liston ... so could Shavers ...

Backing Rocky to do something to Ali that was NEVER done in his distinguished career against top competition is gonna need much more depth than a mere "Rocky could hit much harder than Frazier".

Frazier's left is probably as hard as any punch that Rocky threw, especially with the speed and whip he got into it, combined with the drive through his core that he utilised. If not as hard, it's a joke to even suggest that "Rocky could hit much harder" ... on what evidence?

[Ramon Rojo]

This is a no brainer

Ali by wide UD or TKO

[Muchmoore]

Ali is able to outbox him to win a UD 10-5 or 9-6.

[Executioner]

I like both fighters but styilistically I'd favor Rocky in this matchup. Ali would control the fight for a few rounds with his superior handspeed but by the mid rounds, Rock would have figured him out and consistantly slipped Ali's jab and continuesly worked his way inside and worked Ali with hard bodypunches in attempt to take his legs away and Rock's stamina, workrate and pressure win a razor thin decision. Probably as close as 8-7

Ali moves too well to find himself along the ropes taking too many punches..but he may get dropped by a big right hand somewhere in the fight but of course, would get up and finish the fight. Ali's handspeed and sharp punching would probably slice up Rocks face.

[Luigi1985]

This is a no brainer

Ali by wide UD or TKO



:lol:

[janitor]

Everything in Ali's record against presure fighters with a style like Marciano suggests that he would be in the fight of his life.

Those predicting an easy win for him are just not being realistic.

[janitor]

Marciano doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Ali.

You know it is funny but Doug Jones, Henry Cooper and George Chuvalo more than proved that they deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as Ali.

[McGrain]

This one was posted on the same day as Louis v Ali - and while that one dropped like a stone, this one is still going strong. What is it about this one, the style match up? Or is there something cultural?

[janitor]

This one was posted on the same day as Louis v Ali - and while that one dropped like a stone, this one is still going strong. What is it about this one, the style match up? Or is there something cultural?

I am afraid that there are dark undertones to this match up.

[Bummy Davis]

You know it is funny but Doug Jones, Henry Cooper and George Chuvalo more than proved that they deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as Ali.


Exactly...and we must remember Marciano had a powerfull left hook and doubled up with it real well, Marciano had two hands and an awkward style that Ali would have trouble timing, Bonavena and Mildenburger were no Marciano but there awkwardness made Ali look bad and I repeat Marciano was a much more brutal puncher and a fighter that had the WILL to win and stamina over 15. I see this fight as being competitive but those who see it being a mismatch for Ali, simply know nothing about Marciano or are not being realistic in regard to Ali

[McGrain]

Marciano cut on occasion - Ali cut a lot of fighters. Marciano is a formidable foe who took less punishment than is polularly believed (underated defence) but he is there to be hit, and hit plenty, by an accurate puncher. Ali is an accurate puncher.

I don't feel I am underestimating Rocky or overating Ali - I just feel that the toll that Ali would collect when Rocky was on his way in would be huge - to big. And speaking of to big, although Rocky is stronger than Ali, in terms of functional strength he may actually find himself outdone when he gets inside - which may mean a very quick end to the affair.