J.C.CHAVEZ Vs HECTOR CAMACHO.. EASY.

[George W Hedge]

Was anybody else totally suprised by the ease in which julio cesar chavez beat hector camacho ?

Camacho was 1 of the best boxers of his time, so was chavez, many thought that camacho had the speed & boxing skills to do what taylor did except with his heart, finish the fight & win, although most fans did pick jc to win.

I think this may have been jc`s peak at this weight class, he was punch perfect & utterly relentless.... camacho tried hard & actually fought the way everyone expected him to fight, its just that chavez wasnt taking any prisoners from about rd 2 onwards.

This version of julio might very well have beaten any 140 lber there ever was including pryor & tszyu in their prime.

JCC is 1 of the best fighters that ever lived, very few boxers in history, if any can use that style of fighting & rack up as many fights let alone wins, awesome.

:good

[Thread Stealer]

Not all that surprised, maybe a bit since he totally dominated Camacho.

Camacho wasn't the same fighter in 1992 that he was in the mid 80s. Chavez had slipped somewhat too, but he was closer to his best than Camacho.

[Thread Stealer]

This version of julio might very well have beaten any 140 lber there ever was including pryor & tszyu in their prime.


I'd pick a late 80s/early 90s Chavez over a prime Tszyu @ 140. Not too sure about Pryor. I'd make Whitaker a slight favorite over Chavez @ 140. I'd make Chavez a slight favorite over PBF @ 140, and DLH as well.

[TBooze]

Was anybody else totally suprised by the ease in which julio cesar chavez beat hector camacho ?



Opposite actually, at the time I was very disappointed Chavez could not stop him...

But after watching it, Camacho took one hell of a beating and yet somehow stayed on his feet for 12 rounds. I guess for once in his life, Camacho lived up to the 'Macho Man' gimmick.

[Street Lethal]

I was surprised. I was also surprised by the way Camacho survived once it became obvious that he was totally outclassed.

[sweet_scientist]

The total dominance was surprising, even though signs were there that Camacho was in for a beat down, (what with struggling against Haugen and a past prime Mancini like he did years ago).

The way Chavez dominated was outstanding. That was THE beatdown of Camacho's career. When you consider that years later, and even further from his best, Camacho faced Tito and DLH and still didn't recieve the whoopin to equal the one Chavez gave him, it really says something about Chavez's performance.

[redrooster]

I find it surprising that no one askes why this fight didn't take place many years earlier since both were established title holders back in the early 80's and so close togther in weight. Julio of course always followed right behind Hector who had always been the more recognized and accepted of the two as the legitimate title holder.

So, no I wasn't surprised that by 1992 that Hector would lose. What did he have left? Hector was flatfooted and stationary at this time and nothing more than a punching bag. It was smart management to do it this way. Wait for as long as it takes for him to become a stationary feather fisted fighter, wait for the first loss to be sure then be first in line for a fight-we've all seen this before.

A previous loss to the mediocre Haugen says it all to anyone who doesn't know anything about Hector or hasn't seen him during his youth but for me who had watched him all these years, I recognized Hector's role was now that of stepping stone.

Where's the glory in beating someone who lost to Greg Haugen??

But that's the way Chavez was managed for years going back to his early days as champion, beating leftovers Mayweather, Laporte, Rosario, etc,-all big names at one time and still somewhat useful for gaining experience while building your own reputation, but at the same time, considered as safe opponents.

Contrast those with prime specimens Taylor and Whitaker whose best days were not behind them, whose chins were not dented, whose records were not spotted with losses, and you notice a much tougher struggle, with official outcomes marred by extreme controversy-some of the worst ever.

Who can you say needed this much help protecting an undefeated record? It's almost as though the future of the sport depended on it.

I'm not knocking Julio but I don't see him in the same light as others and the proof of it is the fights with Taylor and Pernell. Had JC not been protected against younger comp and pitted against quick as a flash, 22 year old Camacho, you'd have a completely different outcome.

IMO, 1984 wasn't a time for Julio to rush in even though he held a title but we all knew he didn't win it from Camacho himself. he won it in an eliminator match against an unknown, unestablished, unschooled, (not from the U.S.) foreigner who didn't have the best trainers.

Nothing wrong with that, but to say he belonged in the ring with a superstar like Camacho would be very dishonest. He could have proved otherwise (he was active padding his record all this time) but the fact that he didn't confirms to me that he wouldn't have known how to handle the speed and prowess of Hector Camacho. check the Whitaker fight for an idea of Chavez deals with intelligent boxers.

Like I said, I'm not knocking Chavez. All fighters have flaws and is more skilled and smarter than most and very well managed.

[JohnThomas1]

Chavez always beats Camacho. Camacho didn't have the heart or will of a Whitaker and if you're going to beat Chavez you'd better bring it. At his best Camacho would have fought too negatively vs Julio to get the W, he wouldn't have laid it all on the line. Chavez by decision.

Also have no prob with people putting Chavez Numero Uno head to head at 140, it's certainly defendable tho i think Whitaker would do him.

[JohnThomas1]

Camacho in his best days, at 130, when he actually lived up to his nickname of Macho Man, would've in my opinion done similar to what Taylor did. He had the handspeed of Taylor, and better overall speed of foot and probably better boxing skills. I think it's a very interesting fight that Camacho could win at 130. He was not a defensive fighter then.

That's because he hadn't yet taken the Rosario thunder, which certainly changed his outlook. At 130 look for this outlook to be changed that bit sooner, because Chavez is sure going to catch him. Let us not forget the Chavez that fought Taylor was not peak Chavez. The Chavez body attack would be the key vs a slickster like Camacho. His vaunted body assault will give him more openings for head shots as the fight wears on. By the end Hec will be on his bike, not throwing enough or aggressive enough to take the decision. Hector doesn't have the heart or lust for battle of Taylor, not even close. Against most opponents he doesn't need it, but vs Chavez he certainly does.

Chavez UD12/15 Camacho, possibly even a KD.

[Titan1]

I think at 130, Camacho takes Chavez, albeit in a good fight.He had more heart back in the day.

[hdog]

Camacho showed a ton of heart against Chavez.

Camacho was unreal at 130, I don't know if Chavez couldn't have taken him then.

[redrooster]

That's because he hadn't yet taken the Rosario thunder, which certainly changed his outlook. At 130 look for this outlook to be changed that bit sooner, because Chavez is sure going to catch him. Let us not forget the Chavez that fought Taylor was not peak Chavez. The Chavez body attack would be the key vs a slickster like Camacho. His vaunted body assault will give him more openings for head shots as the fight wears on. By the end Hec will be on his bike, not throwing enough or aggressive enough to take the decision. Hector doesn't have the heart or lust for battle of Taylor, not even close. Against most opponents he doesn't need it, but vs Chavez he certainly does.

Chavez UD12/15 Camacho, possibly even a KD.

This is nothing short of wishful thinking on you're part. Insane actually. I know styles. You don't.

you're speculating because of one lucky punch and expect Chavez to have the same success-never mind the differences between Rosario and Chavez as opponents-the problem with your analysis.

Chavez can't hit the way Rosario did to get a world class opponent in trouble with one punch and has to rely on an accumulation. Look at the Haugen fight. Look at most of his fights and you'll see the same thing.

But with Hector this wouldn't be possible nor would a sustained body attack.

In fact, Chavez would be lucky to get through even a couple of blows at one time when he's being outmanuvered by a much faster and vastly more mobile southpaw.

Notice how Chavez fell behind in the Taylor fight because he was always getting beat to the punch. He had to wait for opening when he could score. But Taylor stayed in front of him too long and took a sustained punding.

I'm glad actually that JC's management was wise enough to stay clear of Hector during Hector's time (Not JC's time). I can imagine the confusion, the sheer mounting frustration because he'd have no idea how to deal with the mobility or the smarts of Hector.

And make no mistake that Hector had the better tools, not to mention that Hector in the heat of battle (in split seconds) always seemed to make all the right moves, the winning moves that enabled Hector to come out mostly untouched in fights.

Another huge edge that Hector enjoyed was that he could hit on the move, but Chavez moved in a little too mechanically, a little too slowly for the likes of Camacho. He first had to get wihin range and stop to unload and even then needed loads of punches to do the job.

But the main problem for Chavez was would be getting himself into range without first getting caught.

And even the category of heart, the edge still goes to Hector.

When the action got too rough it was Chavez who quit while Hector has never failed to finish the entire bout on his feet. No sign of quitting with Hector.

Don't get me wrong. Julio was great when things were going his way but if things went against him or if he couldn't figure out a style he was much less dominant, much less impressive.

This was evident in the Taylor fight when he repeatedly stalled instead of pressing him to get him out of there. it was also evident in the second bout with Randall. Chavez was quite relieved when the butt came when it did to end the fight. He was more than willing to have the officials decide for him rather than take matters in his own hands against such a demanding opponent.

And need I bring up the Whitaker match? he was embarrassed and couldn't stop Pernell from moving the way he wanted. He just walked straight into everything Pernell threw at him. Again, the officials saved his record.

And to remove all doubt about fighting heart you can't ignore the way Chavez quit in the De lahoya fight. On his stool with his corner pleading with him not to quit. he quit over what, a cut lip? Even Oscar said the defeat was more satisfying because he took away his heart for fighting. To me that's the ultimate defeat.

I give Chavez some chance against Hector but from where I sit, it doesn't seem very likely with Hector holding all the advantages. Hector by decision. And no, it wouldn't be close.

[JohnThomas1]

This is nothing short of wishful thinking on you're part. Insane actually. I know styles. You don't.

you're speculating because of one lucky punch and expect Chavez to have the same success

You're rooted from the start, Rosario plucked Camacho's heart not once but twice. Maybe you haven't seen the fight. Regardless you've made a total stuff up a mere 5 sentences into your sermon.

Better luck next time

:good

[redrooster]

You're rooted from the start, Rosario plucked Camacho's heart not once but twice. Maybe you haven't seen the fight. Regardless you've made a total stuff up a mere 5 sentences into your sermon.

Better luck next time

:good

I've seen the Rosario fight. So what? Camacho won but you like to act as though he lost the fight.

Haven't you seen the DLH-JC Chavez fights? I'm not talking about the first match where the ref had to step in and save him by the 4th round.

I'm talking rematch.

Julio clearly pulled a quit job after getting pummelled at the end of the round. Could have done it anytime before then and claim some other excuse so I'll have to assume he quit because he was afraid of what lie ahead for him-namely more punishment and an inevitable knockout loss.

You know what they say "A warrior goes out on his shield". Did we see any of that here? :lol:

Besides, you been outvoted since you brought it up with your stupidity :yep ---"Chavez beats every version of Hector". No one here is stupid enough to believe your claims so why don't you just stop now before you really embarrass yourself.

[JohnThomas1]

You didn't even know Camacho got nailed twice Rooter, there's really no need for me to read any drivel that has come after this point. Instead of just looking at boxrec spend some money and actually get some film to indulge to (Scary thought if Hec, Animal, "Hard Rock" Green of "Terrible" Terry are fighting, no shirts n, all)

Next time get your early facts sharp enough to encourage one to read the rest of your post.

:good

[redrooster]

You didn't even know Camacho got nailed twice Rooter, there's really no need for me to read any drivel that has come after this point. Instead of just looking at boxrec spend some money and actually get some film to indulge to (Scary thought if Hec, Animal, "Hard Rock" Green of "Terrible" Terry are fighting, no shirts n, all)

Next time get your early facts sharp enough to encourage one to read the rest of your post.

:good

I told you you'd just embarrass yourself further :lol:

Nailed twice in a fight. Big f'in deal. You're in a fight and you get caught twice in 12 rounds. that's saying a lot!

Did you know Julio quit on his stool with his cornermen pleading "don't quit"? :bbb

[JohnThomas1]

I told you you'd just embarrass yourself further :lol:

Nailed twice in a fight. Big f'in deal. You're in a fight and you get caught twice in 12 rounds. that's saying a lot!


But, but, but i thought you said it was just a wee wittle wunce

:lol:

[redrooster]

But, but, but i thought you said it was just a wee wittle wunce

:lol:

Exactly as I predicted. You'd go on and dig a deeper hole for yourself.

Does anyone know what this fool's babbling about this time?

[George W Hedge]

Whitaker only had 1 fight at 140, he looked great vs pineda & got a shut-out & of course would have a great chance vs chavez.

I had whitaker winning over jcc at 147 (bad judging)

They were both at there peak as lwts, this fight may very well have been a REAL draw.... pernell was closer to his prime & 2 yrs younger at 147 but at 135 those 2yrs wouldnt mean shit & chavez would still have his speed & reflexes which was his main downfall vs pernell at 147.

Whitaker never looked better than vs ramirez in 2nd fight.... same goes for jcc vs rosario.... BOTH FIGHTS AT 135.

Id go for a draw or 12 rd sd either way but in a 15 rd fight Id lean towards chavez.

Ps. Id also pick chavez over camacho at any weight.

:good