Should Heavyweights be on Pound 4 Pound lists?

[ripcity]

This is for both current and all time lists.
I personly think that if a heavyweight has the talent and the resume to be on the list he should be on the list.

[truewarrior]

Yes but no current Heavyweight.

[ripcity]

Yes but no current Heavyweight.
I should state what I mean by current. C urent would mean a list for what ever point in time you happen to be in so yes in May of 2008 I don't think I would have any of the Heavyweights on my list but in 10 years who knows. I'm sure if we were in the times of Ali or Louis they would be on my list.

[greengloves]

of course;but only if their talent/resume permits it,i think its pretty apt that wlad isnt in the p4p top 10 at the minute,although far and away the best hw nothing he has done inspires him being a top10 p4per,coupled with his lack of competition he'll not be on it.

however if haye can move up and prove to be the best hw of this time i'll have no troubles putting him on the list.

[Smith]

He's on my current list.:good

01 Floyd Mayweather Junior (USA)
02 Manny Pacquiao (Phillipines)
03 Miguel Cotto (Puerto Rico)
04 Joe Calzaghe (Wales)
05 Juan Manuel Marquez (Mexico)
06 Israel Vasquez (Mexico)
07 Ivan Calderon (Puerto Rico)
08 Christian Mijares (Mexico)
09 David Haye (England)
10 Chris John (Indonesia)
11 Joan Guzman (Dominican)
12 Rafael Marquez (Mexico)
13 Mikkel Kessler (Denmark)
14 Chad Dawson (USA)
15 Bernard Hopkins (USA)
16 Kelly Pavlik (USA)
17 Jermain Taylor (USA)
18 Wladimir Klitschko (Russia)
19 Nate Campbell (USA)
20 Ricky Hatton (England)
21 Winky Wright (USA)
22 Oscar De La Hoya (USA)
23 Juan Diaz (USA)
24 Antonio Margarito (Mexico)
25 Fernando Montiel (Mexico)

[Asterion]

James Toney was the last heavyweight included in The Ring P4P lists.

He was there in early 2004.

[greengloves]

He's on my current list.:good

01 Floyd Mayweather Junior (USA)
02 Manny Pacquiao (Phillipines)
03 Miguel Cotto (Puerto Rico)
04 Joe Calzaghe (Wales)
05 Juan Manuel Marquez (Mexico)
06 Israel Vasquez (Mexico)
07 Ivan Calderon (Puerto Rico)
08 Christian Mijares (Mexico)
09 David Haye (England)
10 Chris John (Indonesia)
11 Joan Guzman (Dominican)
12 Rafael Marquez (Mexico)
13 Mikkel Kessler (Denmark)
14 Chad Dawson (USA)
15 Bernard Hopkins (USA)
16 Kelly Pavlik (USA)
17 Jermain Taylor (USA)
18 Wladimir Klitschko (Russia)
19 Nate Campbell (USA)
20 Ricky Hatton (England)
21 Winky Wright (USA)
22 Oscar De La Hoya (USA)
23 Juan Diaz (USA)
24 Antonio Margarito (Mexico)
25 Fernando Montiel (Mexico)

aye but your list is fucking nuts,id have wlad top 25,i've no problem with that but i would dispute alot of your rankings,however p4p is mostly subjective,only a little bit of objectivity counts so i cant really have a problem with it.

personally id have chris john way lower,as well as kessler,id have cotto below joe c.i dont know how you can justify having pavlik so low with people like cotto kessler dawson haye ahead of him and jermain taylor only one place behind,by that logic hatton should be much higher having only tasted defeat from the p4p no 1. id also argue for having junior witter ahead of juan diaz,montiel,oscar,winky,jermain.

would you agree in any way smith?

[Smith]

aye but your list is fucking nuts,id have wlad top 25,i've no problem with that but i would dispute alot of your rankings,however p4p is mostly subjective,only a little bit of objectivity counts so i cant really have a problem with it.

personally id have chris john way lower,as well as kessler,id have cotto below joe c.i dont know how you can justify having pavlik so low with people like cotto kessler dawson haye ahead of him and jermain taylor only one place behind,by that logic hatton should be much higher having only tasted defeat from the p4p no 1. id also argue for having junior witter ahead of juan diaz,montiel,oscar,winky,jermain.

would you agree in any way smith?I would not agree at all no.

My list is a fine work of art in which I update and manouevre from time to time. My method is 70% ability along with 30% resume. Like you say though, P4P lists are bullshit generally. For instance, on skill set you could place Gamboa in the top 15 at present, but until he proves it, it is not possible. It is entirely subjective.

And please not another person argue against my placing of Pavlik. I will under no circumstance place him any higher than those I have already ahead of him. No fucking chance. Until he proves otherwise. Which he won't.

Hatton has never been in my top ten to begin with if I recall.

I think you'll find my list, although flawed in some peoples eyes, is an accuarte reflection of the current scene today.

A good day to you.

:smoke

[Kaz_187]

course they should fighters who fight at lower weights(hopkins,hatton,calzhage)who fight at 1 single weight for years appear on them,heavyweights should too,of course that is if they are good enough

[greengloves]

I would not agree at all no.

My list is a fine work of art in which I update and manouevre from time to time. My method is 70% ability along with 30% resume. Like you say though, P4P lists are bullshit generally. For instance, on skill set you could place Gamboa in the top 15 at present, but until he proves it, it is not possible. It is entirely subjective.

And please not another person argue against my placing of Pavlik. I will under no circumstance place him any higher than those I have already ahead of him. No fucking chance. Until he proves otherwise. Which he won't.

Hatton has never been in my top ten to begin with if I recall.

I think you'll find my list, although flawed in some peoples eyes, is an accuarte reflection of the current scene today.

A good day to you.

:smoke

haha

as long as it looks good to the eye of the beholder,fair play to you mate,you go by something and stick to it,as flawed as it is im sure we could find worse lists,but cotto ahead of calzaghe based on your basis ... i smell shittttt

[truewarrior]

aye but your list is fucking nuts,id have wlad top 25,i've no problem with that but i would dispute alot of your rankings,however p4p is mostly subjective,only a little bit of objectivity counts so i cant really have a problem with it.

personally id have chris john way lower,as well as kessler,id have cotto below joe c.i dont know how you can justify having pavlik so low with people like cotto kessler dawson haye ahead of him and jermain taylor only one place behind,by that logic hatton should be much higher having only tasted defeat from the p4p no 1. id also argue for having junior witter ahead of juan diaz,montiel,oscar,winky,jermain.

would you agree in any way smith?
All those fighters you said to move up are from the U.K. so that only says one thing.......You are not american right?

[greengloves]

All those fighters you said to move up are from the U.K. so that only says one think.......You are not american right?

im not from the UK either mate,i said about pavlik moving up also,and i should have mentioned marg.

[Punisher33]

Wasnt Tyson the last number 1 P4P Heavyweight back in late 88, 89?

[sean]

wladimir klitcho not being on p4p lists IMO is wrong.

they are all hypothetival and a bit of fun but look at it in perspective.

p4p klitchko in another division would have a huge height /reach and power advantage/has a controlling jab to take advantage of this fact and if you take liberty`s with him he could ko you with 1 punch.

klitchko would be the equivelent of a 6.2 welterweight with 1 punch ko power.

i fail to see the difference between american magazines ranking kelly pavlik number 9 and a fighter been around 7 years longer in wladimir, fought more names being not ranked at all, when they have similar attributes.

to me its bias by the ring.

[Smith]

haha

as long as it looks good to the eye of the beholder,fair play to you mate,you go by something and stick to it,as flawed as it is im sure we could find worse lists,but cotto ahead of calzaghe based on your basis ... i smell shitttttIm far far more knoweladgable than you my friend, trust me.

:smoke

[BITCH ASS]

He's on my current list.:good

01 Floyd Mayweather Junior (USA)
02 Manny Pacquiao (Phillipines)
03 Miguel Cotto (Puerto Rico)
04 Joe Calzaghe (Wales)
05 Juan Manuel Marquez (Mexico)
06 Israel Vasquez (Mexico)
07 Ivan Calderon (Puerto Rico)
08 Christian Mijares (Mexico)
09 David Haye (England)
10 Chris John (Indonesia)
11 Joan Guzman (Dominican)
12 Rafael Marquez (Mexico)
13 Mikkel Kessler (Denmark)
14 Chad Dawson (USA)
15 Bernard Hopkins (USA)
16 Kelly Pavlik (USA)
17 Jermain Taylor (USA)
18 Wladimir Klitschko (Russia)
19 Nate Campbell (USA)
20 Ricky Hatton (England)
21 Winky Wright (USA)
22 Oscar De La Hoya (USA)
23 Juan Diaz (USA)
24 Antonio Margarito (Mexico)
25 Fernando Montiel (Mexico)

That's not a very good list.

[NBT]

,however p4p is mostly subjective
There is nothing objective about p4p list because p4p lists don't make any sense at all, you just can't compare different weight classes. p4p lists are popularity contests that's all.
I think I have to visualize it...
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
It just doesn't make any sense that the midget in the middle should be listed above the guy on the left on any list which has anything to do with boxing. It's just ridiculous.

[greengloves]

Im far far more knoweladgable than you my friend, trust me.

:smoke

for that statement alone you have proved your stupidity my dim witted scottish friend,how about you take your head out of your arse and look into reality.

[LightningJoe]

If they are good enough of course they should be there.

[sthomas]

There is nothing objective about p4p list because p4p lists don't make any sense at all, you just can't compare different weight classes. p4p lists are popularity contests that's all.
I think I have to visualize it...
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
It just doesn't make any sense that the midget in the middle should be listed above the guy on the left on any list which has anything to do with boxing. It's just ridiculous.

Pound for Pound is just too damn subjective to be anything more than a barroom discussion. So when people ask who's the greatest boxer ever I always say Muhammad Ali as I don't think I would bet against him against any other fighter ever head to head. I know it's not a fair fight for a 200 lb. Ali to fight a 147 lb. Robinson, but that's just the way it is with me. Plus there are many examples of smaller men going way up in weight and having some success, Lous-Conn, Jones-Ruiz, etc.

[Hugh Jerrod]

The smaller ones, like Tyson.