Has anyone ever scored Ali-Norton trilogy...

[Smokin'Joe100]

As three draws? I have after watching the first fight as each time i watch it and all the ali norton fights i score them slightly different. I think Ali did great in fighting through the broken jaw, and norton did well to just get the job done. In thier 3rd fight, i nearly always have it even going into the final round, which i believe Ali won save for a good last 25 secs from Norton.

Has anyone else scored the trilogy three draws? Draws are rare in boxing, but these 3 fights are so close i could see it as being a possibility.

[Shake]

Despite being a huge Ali fan, I had Norton winning two.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Despite being a huge Ali fan, I had Norton winning two.


Same here.

[jyuza]

I need to rewatch the last 2 but I had Ali winning 2 fights.

[achillesthegreat]

I have it 1-1 in the first two. Haven't watched the third for ages.

[heerko koois]

3-0 Norton............

[fg2227]

Ali WITHOUT question won the 2nd.

[jowcol]

Ali WITHOUT question won the 2nd.

Yes, but he needed round 12 to get the win IMHO...

[Sonny Carson]

I gave the first and third to Norton and the second to Ali.

[Duodenum]

I actually viewed the complete first two matches of their trilogy after getting drawn into ESB a few months ago. I think the scoring of both matches was what it should have been. Each boxer swept the first several rounds of the bout they won. I was surprised that Ali was as competitive as he was in the first contest. In the rematch, Norton started out by continually advancing, but hardly throwing any punches, while the retreating Ali kept his hands busy enough outscore Norton. The rounds Ken won later in the fight were taken handily, but not handily enough to merit receiving more than one point, as the commentators suggested (or by more than one point on a ten point must system).

While both of the first two meetings were close, I felt that the winner of most individual rounds was clear.

Although I agreed with the judges who selected the winner each time, I also agree that a split decision was an accurate reflection of how close they were. I also think Norton would have taken the second fight if he'd opened up on Muhammad a bit. He let the rematch slip away as much as Ali won it.

I've never viewed the third fight in it's entirely.

[Smokin'Joe100]

I actually viewed the complete first two matches of their trilogy after getting drawn into ESB a few months ago. I think the scoring of both matches was what it should have been. Each boxer swept the first several rounds of the bout they won. I was surprised that Ali was as competitive as he was in the first contest. In the rematch, Norton started out by continually advancing, but hardly throwing any punches, while the retreating Ali kept his hands busy enough outscore Norton. The rounds Ken won later in the fight were taken handily, but not handily enough to merit receiving more than one point, as the commentators suggested (or by more than one point on a ten point must system).

While both of the first two meetings were close, I felt that the winner of most individual rounds was clear.


Although I agreed with the judges who selected the winner each time, I also agree that a split decision was an accurate reflection of how close they were. I also think Norton would have taken the second fight if he'd opened up on Muhammad a bit. He let the rematch slip away as much as Ali won it.

I've never viewed the third fight in it's entirely.

The third fight is a must see. At this point in his career, Ali has been robbed of most of his power, his speed on the decline and his workrate in the gym on the wane. All he'd done was become reliant on his ringcraft to pull him through, and normally taking a fair few punches on the way. But because he was up against Norton, and was paid $6 mil, he got his ass into the best shape he could. At the fight, Norton comes straight out of the blocks and after 7 rounds is well ahead. Ali and his camp by this point is starting to shit themselves and Ali just starts to nick rounds with bursts of effort and tying Norton up. from the 9th till through the 14th he loses one round in my opinion. This means that they go into the 15th dead level. Now Ali is told by his corner to go and fight for 3 mins full on because he needs that round to win. Norton is told that he is comfortably ahead, and to keep out of trouble.
So Ali comes out and controls the ring for 2 and a half mins, before norton senses something is up and comes on stronger in the last 30 secs, but in my view he had already lost the round.

I think Norton was the fitter man at that point, and if he had been given the same advice as Ali, to go out and fight full on, he would have outpunched him and took the round easy. But because he coasted he threw away the last round and the fight.

[Sweet Science]

The 3rd fight was painfully close and could have gone either way. Though a lot of people seem to think Norton was robbed.

[Holmes' Jab]

The 3rd fight was painfully close and could have gone either way. Though a lot of people seem to think Norton was robbed.

True.

I scored it for Norton in the first fight, Ali won the second comfortably. The third is probably the hardest one to judge. Having only watched the third fight once I seem to remember scoring it as the narrowest of Ali wins (7-6-2, or summit).

A really close trilogy to call, though. :good

[achillesthegreat]

The third fight is a must see. At this point in his career, Ali has been robbed of most of his power, his speed on the decline and his workrate in the gym on the wane. All he'd done was become reliant on his ringcraft to pull him through, and normally taking a fair few punches on the way. But because he was up against Norton, and was paid $6 mil, he got his ass into the best shape he could. At the fight, Norton comes straight out of the blocks and after 7 rounds is well ahead. Ali and his camp by this point is starting to shit themselves and Ali just starts to nick rounds with bursts of effort and tying Norton up. from the 9th till through the 14th he loses one round in my opinion. This means that they go into the 15th dead level. Now Ali is told by his corner to go and fight for 3 mins full on because he needs that round to win. Norton is told that he is comfortably ahead, and to keep out of trouble.
So Ali comes out and controls the ring for 2 and a half mins, before norton senses something is up and comes on stronger in the last 30 secs, but in my view he had already lost the round.

I think Norton was the fitter man at that point, and if he had been given the same advice as Ali, to go out and fight full on, he would have outpunched him and took the round easy. But because he coasted he threw away the last round and the fight.
Nice recap. I may have to make a point of watching it. I'm sure I know I have the trilogy on dvd. I have to dig it up.

[AnthonyJ74]

The third fight is a must see. At this point in his career, Ali has been robbed of most of his power, his speed on the decline and his workrate in the gym on the wane. All he'd done was become reliant on his ringcraft to pull him through, and normally taking a fair few punches on the way. But because he was up against Norton, and was paid $6 mil, he got his ass into the best shape he could. At the fight, Norton comes straight out of the blocks and after 7 rounds is well ahead. Ali and his camp by this point is starting to shit themselves and Ali just starts to nick rounds with bursts of effort and tying Norton up. from the 9th till through the 14th he loses one round in my opinion. This means that they go into the 15th dead level. Now Ali is told by his corner to go and fight for 3 mins full on because he needs that round to win. Norton is told that he is comfortably ahead, and to keep out of trouble.
So Ali comes out and controls the ring for 2 and a half mins, before norton senses something is up and comes on stronger in the last 30 secs, but in my view he had already lost the round.

I think Norton was the fitter man at that point, and if he had been given the same advice as Ali, to go out and fight full on, he would have outpunched him and took the round easy. But because he coasted he threw away the last round and the fight.

Personally, I think Norton won the 15th round. Norton was the aggressor, and most of Ali's punches - jabs included - didn't seem to land. Ali came out dancing and jabbing, but that was all just show. Then, with about 30 seconds or so left in the round, Norton lands two good right hands on Ali's jaw. Ali retreats to the corner, and Norton starts raining in punches. I gave the 15th round to Norton, and I gave Norton the fight!

[groove]

I find it hard to watch the 3rd fight as Ali was no longer the same fighter and used rope-a-dope too much and became a punching bag. He definitely shoulda called it a day after the Manila fight. Woulda ended up with only 2 losses and probably wouldn't have got Parkinsons. The many shots from the likes of Norton, Shavers, Holmes etc that he took in his last few years of his career gave him Parkinsons IMO. Ali had slowed down a lot and his speech was slurring- a big sign that something is wrong. That's why Dr Ferdie Pacheco left his team. He saw the signs and tried to warn Ali without any success.
Here's an except of an article i just found :-
The Opponent

Larry Holmes was proudest of the black eye.

He got it as an amateur the first time he stepped into the ring for a sparring session with Ali, at his training camp in Deer Lake, Pa.

"I didn't want to put ice on it," Holmes said. "Having him give me a black eye meant a lot to me."

Holmes would later give Ali much worse. The two met on Oct. 2, 1980, at Caesar's Palace, with Ali lured out of retirement to fight a former sparring partner who had become the heavyweight champion of the world.

Ali had given him his first chance in boxing, but Holmes had a job to do against the aging former champion, who grew a mustache before the fight and presented himself as "Dark Gable."

The fight was lopsided from the opening bell. Holmes was young, fast and strong. Ali was a shell of himself and took a beating until he finally quit on his stool after the 10th round.

"He was like a little baby after the first round," Holmes said. "I was throwing punches and missing just for the hell of it. I kept saying, `Ali, why are you taking this?'"

"He said, `Shut up and fight. I'm going to knock you out.'"

When the fight was over, Holmes and his wife went upstairs to pay their respects to Ali. In a darkened room, Holmes told Ali that he loved him.

"Then why did you whip my ass like that?" Ali replied.

Holmes hasn't seen Ali recently but said he heard he was down to 185 pounds.

"I can't just say Ali was the greatest because there were so many great fighters out there. I can't say he was greater than Marciano, Louis, Dempsey and everyone else," Holmes said.

"A lot of it today is that people feel sorry for him because he's got that Parkinson's or whatever is wrong with him. They feel he doesn't have too much longer to live, and they want to be part of the legend."

[robert ungurean]

2-1 Norton

[My dinner with Conteh]

I think my cards were:


115-113 Kenny

115-114 Ali

144-142 Kenny

[The Kurgan]

The 3rd fight was painfully close and could have gone either way. Though a lot of people seem to think Norton was robbed.

I think Norton won it, but it wasn't a robbery. I had it 8-7; I can see how people could score it for Ali. Compare that to Lewis-Holyfield I, where you could only score it for Holyfield if you'd already decided to score rounds in his favour without paying attention to the action.

[The Kurgan]

I think my cards were:


115-113 Kenny

115-114 Ali

144-142 Kenny

I'm similar, although I had the first fight 116-112 for Norton and the second 115-113 for Ali.

[fg2227]

2/1 For Ali