Tyson

[GrimReaper]

I am always called a Mike Tyson hater, but, and probably will after this too but im not a hater just a realist about the fact that Mike was VERY overrated. Sure he was a descructive recking machine, but he was always pretty easy pickins for anyone with good movement, a good jab, and no fear. I remember when he faught Lennox, I was like the only one in my school who thought Lennox would win, and thats because everyone was caught up in the tyson hype. Anyone can look good against bums, but when Mike faught good fighters who werent scared, he got KO'd

[GrimReaper]

Another thing, people seem to think Tyson was in his prime pre Duglass. No way a guy can be in their prime if theyre that young and havent faught nothing but bums and old guys

[P.4.P.G.O.A.T.]

I am always called a Mike Tyson hater, but, and probably will after this too but im not a hater just a realist about the fact that Mike was VERY overrated. Sure he was a descructive recking machine, but he was always pretty easy pickins for anyone with good movement, a good jab, and no fear. I remember when he faught Lennox, I was like the only one in my school who thought Lennox would win, and thats because everyone was caught up in the tyson hype. Anyone can look good against bums, but when Mike faught good fighters who werent scared, he got KO'd

Nothing overrated about a 20 year old Tyson trained and cared for by Cus D'Amato. That Tyson would have beaten many of the top heavies.

[GrimReaper]

Nothing overrated about a 20 year old Tyson trained and cared for by Cus D'Amato. That Tyson would have beaten many of the top heavies.

I agree he would beat many of todays heavys, but ive heard things on this site like Tyson was the besy heavy ever, and he would knock out Frazier, Foreman, and someoneeven said he would beat Ali

[P.4.P.G.O.A.T.]

I agree he would beat many of todays heavys, but ive heard things on this site like Tyson was the besy heavy ever, and he would knock out Frazier, Foreman, and someoneeven said he would beat Ali

Maybe he could have handled Foreman, but Ali and Frazier would have owned Tyson.

[GrimReaper]

Maybe he could have handled Foreman, but Ali and Frazier would have owned Tyson.

I think Foreman would have bounced his ass around in the same fashion he did Frazier

[Jetset78]

Fighters prime at different stages of their careers. Tyson primed early and was a shell of his former self when he lost to Lewis. He was already declining when he fought Douglas. Nobody's fault but his own so I have no sympathy for him.

For me, prime Tyson beats Foreman & Frazier and without a doubt Lewis. I think Ali would have taken him on decision (even though Ali himself said that Tyson would have beaten him).

[GrimReaper]

Fighters prime at different stages of their careers. Tyson primed early and was a shell of his former self when he lost to Lewis. He was already declining when he fought Douglas. Nobody's fault but his own so I have no sympathy for him.

For me, prime Tyson beats Foreman & Frazier and without a doubt Lewis. I think Ali would have taken him on decision (even though Ali himself said that Tyson would have beaten him).


Just how was Tyson declining when he faught Douglass

[rendog67]

I think Foreman would have bounced his ass around in the same fashion he did Frazier


no way that would happen young tyson was way too hard to hit :-(

[rendog67]

Just how was Tyson declining when he faught Douglass

what do you know about tyson?

even though he was outclassed he was on the decline against douglas that is for sure

[ThePlugInBabies]

Just how was Tyson declining when he faught Douglass

mentally he was going to pieces, the demons were rising.

not to mention rooney had been given the boot by king and they hired some hilariously inept trainers to take over.

seriously, this thread blows.

[Jetset78]

Just how was Tyson declining when he faught Douglass

In fact I believe his decline started when he fought Bruno 1. His head movement, footwork, hand speed and reflexes just weren't the same. I assume this was due to outside issues and lack of training.

[Shaolin Box]

I agree he would beat many of todays heavys, but ive heard things on this site like Tyson was the besy heavy ever, and he would knock out Frazier, Foreman, and someoneeven said he would beat Ali

Prime Tyson beats Foreman, Frazier and maybe even Ali...:deal

[Shaolin Box]

[quote=seriously, this thread blows.[/quote]

Couldn't agree more. :good

[coronacards]

Just how was Tyson declining when he faught Douglass


1) Tyson was now mentally unstable, due to issues with his wife, Don King, etc.

2) Tyson was stoned the night before the fight, barely trained (which was evident by Greg Page knocking him down in sparring).

3) Tyson already changed his style. With Cus, it was defense first, and a strong offensive barrage with brutal combinations. By the Douglas fight, Tyson was just looking to load up one punch.


You can love or hate the man. I'm in between. However, he was one of (if not the most) destructive force in the history of boxing.

Tyson would've beaten Frazier (Tyson was just a Frazier style, except bigger, stronger, and faster). Plus, Frazier had a tendancy to get in trouble early in fights. If that occurred against Tyson, it was over.

Prime Foreman also would lose to Tyson. He was just too slow and sloppy to pentetrate that perfect Cus defense. Tyson was a machine. He was short, compact, and extremely quick. Also, Foreman's chin wasn't as good as Tyson's.

[guncho]

In fact I believe his decline started when he fought Bruno 1. His head movement, footwork, hand speed and reflexes just weren't the same. I assume this was due to outside issues and lack of training.

just wanted to type the same!:good

[2ironmt]

Another thing, people seem to think Tyson was in his prime pre Duglass. No way a guy can be in their prime if theyre that young and havent faught nothing but bums and old guys somebody ban this troll. bums and old guys? these are the guys that lewis and holy were beating years later. you think that lewis/tyson is somehow relevant to how rooney trained tyson would react to guys with a jab and no fear. what an assclown.

[djrock247]

I agree he would beat many of todays heavys, but ive heard things on this site like Tyson was the besy heavy ever, and he would knock out Frazier, Foreman, and someoneeven said he would beat Ali

I too have been a lifelong "Tyson Basher" but I have to laugh at your statement..."he would beat many of todays heavys". I think it's safe to say that he would DESTROY ALL of today's heavies. The cream of the crop, Wlad Klitschko, would absolutely crumble against Tyson. Ironic Mike would be a stylistic nightmare for Klitschko and the rest of the bunch.

I do not like "prime" Tyson's chances against the likes of Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis, Prime Larry Holmes or George Foreman. I also see "prime" Mike struggling against Evander Holyfield. More interesting and debatable matchups would be Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey.

[djrock247]

I agree he would beat many of todays heavys, but ive heard things on this site like Tyson was the besy heavy ever, and he would knock out Frazier, Foreman, and someoneeven said he would beat Ali

I too have been a lifelong "Tyson Basher" but I have to laugh at your statement..."he would beat many of todays heavys". I think it's safe to say that he would DESTROY ALL of today's heavies. The cream of the crop, Wlad Klitschko, would absolutely crumble against Tyson. Ironic Mike would be a stylistic nightmare for Klitschko and the rest of the bunch.

I do not like "prime" Tyson's chances against the likes of Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, Lennox Lewis, Prime Larry Holmes or George Foreman. I also see "prime" Mike struggling against Evander Holyfield. More interesting and debatable matchups would be Joe Frazier, Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey.

[GrimReaper]

This thread blows. Tyson is one of the most ferocious heavyweights who ever lived. That's a fact, regardless of what YOUR OPINION is.
And when he fought Lewis he was washed up, since 1997.
Your a fucken wimp. Cocksucker

ooooh, touchy! Funny how you mention its merely MY OPINION, but still manage to get upset enough to call me a cocksucker and a fuckin wimp, even though you know absolutely nothing about me. I see Tyson bashing brings out the little girl in you all huh :hi:

[Carlos Primera]

prime tyson is the greatest hvy of all time.

[GrimReaper]

prime tyson is the greatest hvy of all time.


:-(

[Shaolin Box]

:-(

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Still have the same view? Show me a heavy that ever looked like that...:deal

[Titan1]

1) Tyson was now mentally unstable, due to issues with his wife, Don King, etc.

2) Tyson was stoned the night before the fight, barely trained (which was evident by Greg Page knocking him down in sparring).

3) Tyson already changed his style. With Cus, it was defense first, and a strong offensive barrage with brutal combinations. By the Douglas fight, Tyson was just looking to load up one punch.


You can love or hate the man. I'm in between. However, he was one of (if not the most) destructive force in the history of boxing.

Tyson would've beaten Frazier (Tyson was just a Frazier style, except bigger, stronger, and faster). Plus, Frazier had a tendancy to get in trouble early in fights. If that occurred against Tyson, it was over.

Prime Foreman also would lose to Tyson. He was just too slow and sloppy to pentetrate that perfect Cus defense. Tyson was a machine. He was short, compact, and extremely quick. Also, Foreman's chin wasn't as good as Tyson's.

Page would have floored him anyway.

[J.R.]

Another thing, people seem to think Tyson was in his prime pre Duglass. No way a guy can be in their prime if theyre that young and havent faught nothing but bums and old guysWell like it or not not that was Tyson's prime. He never got any better than that.

[BITCH ASS]

Stupid ass thread.

[marauder1999]

:-(

[BITCH ASS]

Tyson had a similar fighting style to Frazier except that Tyson had power in both hands, and didn't just rely on his jab and left hook to win a fight.

Frazier said it himself that if he couldn't land his left hook, he wouldn't win the fight. Tyson could beat you with uppercuts, right hands, pretty much anything that touched you was lethal.

Not only that but his defense was perfected for his particular style and his handspeed was unbelieveable. Can you name one heavyweight in history that threw faster combinations than Tyson?

Sure, Tyson isn't going to beat you on the outside if you're Holmes or Ali, but once he gets inside and starts ripping combos to your body and head, it will take its toll and eventually you'll fall.

Head to head, Tyson might be the greatest heavyweight of all time with the exception of maybe Ali. Against Ali though, I would give Tyson a 50/50 chance, and if Ali did manage to win he would take a beating like he's never taken before.

If Lewis fought Tyson in his prime, it would be TIMBER for Lewis. Lewis beat everyman he faced, but he also got KOed by people that had no business knocking him out. Holmes, I would give him maybe 50/50 chance because he was a hard mother fucker. Foreman might actually have better odds of beating Tyson, but Tyson's movement and versatility combined with Foreman's chin may win the fight for him.

I just don't see how Tyson is overrated.

[Punisher33]

Tyson had a similar fighting style to Frazier except that Tyson had power in both hands, and didn't just rely on his jab and left hook to win a fight.

Frazier said it himself that if he couldn't land his left hook, he wouldn't win the fight. Tyson could beat you with uppercuts, right hands, pretty much anything that touched you was lethal.

Not only that but his defense was perfected for his particular style and his handspeed was unbelieveable. Can you name one heavyweight in history that threw faster combinations than Tyson?

Sure, Tyson isn't going to beat you on the outside if you're Holmes or Ali, but once he gets inside and starts ripping combos to your body and head, it will take its toll and eventually you'll fall.

Head to head, Tyson might be the greatest heavyweight of all time with the exception of maybe Ali. Against Ali though, I would give Tyson a 50/50 chance, and if Ali did manage to win he would take a beating like he's never taken before.

If Lewis fought Tyson in his prime, it would be TIMBER for Lewis. Lewis beat everyman he faced, but he also got KOed by people that had no business knocking him out. Holmes, I would give him maybe 50/50 chance because he was a hard mother fucker. Foreman might actually have better odds of beating Tyson, but Tyson's movement and versatility combined with Foreman's chin may win the fight for him.

I just don't see how Tyson is overrated. I fully agree with your post, Tyson was the reason I got into Boxing, the man was the most exciting fighter of his generation, just check the PPV numbers, they dont lie. A prime Tyson would be more than handful for any of the great Heavyweights, I only favor Ali over him H2H.

[MrMagic]

Thanks for sharing your two cents about this.
Now we have about 4 million cents about this whole "Tyson always folded when he faught guys who were not intimidated!" debacle.

And if I may add, you seem to know very little about boxing in general, so your opinion on Mike's career is pretty bizarre. Can you honestly say Bonecrusher, Tucker, Thomas and Ruddock among many were afraid?

Mike was 20 fucking years old, as a heavyweight champion, remember what you did at your 21st birthday? surely wasn't holding a party with the titles in your possession :lol: Mike was one of a kind, I can almost promise you that there will never be anyone younger than him as a Heavyweight champion, ever again.

[toffeejack]

I am always called a Mike Tyson hater, but, and probably will after this too but im not a hater just a realist about the fact that Mike was VERY overrated. Sure he was a descructive recking machine, but he was always pretty easy pickins for anyone with good movement, a good jab, and no fear. I remember when he faught Lennox, I was like the only one in my school who thought Lennox would win, and thats because everyone was caught up in the tyson hype. Anyone can look good against bums, but when Mike faught good fighters who werent scared, he got KO'd

No offence but you were in school when a WAY past it Tyson fought Lewis so I guess you wouldn't remember or weren't even born when Tyson was at his peak. So how can you be a realist regarding Tyson as overrated apart from watching clips from old videos?

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

I am always called a Mike Tyson hater, but, and probably will after this too but im not a hater just a realist about the fact that Mike was VERY overrated. Sure he was a descructive recking machine, but he was always pretty easy pickins for anyone with good movement, a good jab, and no fear. I remember when he faught Lennox, I was like the only one in my school who thought Lennox would win, and thats because everyone was caught up in the tyson hype. Anyone can look good against bums, but when Mike faught good fighters who werent scared, he got KO'd
You have made some good points:thumbsup Tyson was over-rated in my opinion, and wasn't even close to being the best in his generation:-( that would be Holyfield or Lennox both who thrashed him, he was an Asshole to boot, the ear biting, the rape deal, going to jail for beating up an old man on the side of the road, drugs, starting a near riot at the LEnnox press conference..i was elated when Tomato can Kevin Mcbride whipped his ass..

[Shaolin Box]

You have made some good points:thumbsup Tyson was over-rated in my opinion, and wasn't even close to being the best in his generation:-( that would be Holyfield or Lennox both who thrashed him, he was an Asshole to boot, the ear biting, the rape deal, going to jail for beating up an old man on the side of the road, drugs, starting a near riot at the LEnnox press conference..i was elated when Tomato can Kevin Mcbride whipped his ass..

Lewis and Holy beat a way past his prime Tyson :deal.

And this is a boxing forum, fuck what he did outside the ring...

[Hatesrats]

Mike Tyson is a handfull for any Heavyweight Past Present, or Future.
His Speed, Combos + Body Punching & Finishing ability will always be a prob.
Mike will even knock out some of those heavyweight's still swimming in their daddy's sack that haven't been born yet, Tyson's style is timeless.

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

Lewis and Holy beat a way past his prime Tyson :deal.

And this is a boxing forum, fuck what he did outside the ring...
Holyfield was past his prime when he beat Tyson also:deal i don't give a shit who's past their prime, they agreed and signed to take the fight so it is what it is, Tyson was the most over-rated heavy in history that's why he was waxed by Douglas..:lol: A 42-1 DOG..

[Shaolin Box]

Holyfield was past his prime when he beat Tyson also:deal i don't give a shit who's past their prime, they agreed and signed to take the fight so it is what it is, Tyson was the most over-rated heavy in history that's why he was waxed by Douglas..:lol: A 42-1 DOG..

pure hater :-(

congrats!

[sthomas]

Tyson is one fighter who is really hard to peg as to how good he actually was or could have been.

Almost all agree that the Cus and Rooney fighter was Tyson at his best. He pretty much destroyed most guys, but some Tillis & Tucker, were able to last the distance and win rounds in the process. The Bonehugger Smith fight was a bit of an eye opener for me. He was big, slow, and was just looking to survive, and he did. Tyson won decisively but he was just not powerful enough to immpresively deal with Bonehuggers tactics, and that left doubt with me as to how he could deal with a big strong man, with some skills.

By the time Tyson fought Douglas, he was a shadow of his former self. We all know about his Tokyo night life, personal demons, etc. His corner was a freakin' joke too, trying to control his facial swelling with a blown up baloon with some water in it. This fight was the end of Tyson as a major force.

So how do we compare Tyson to other great champs? The only way I can do that is to look @ his pre-Douglas fights. Again, his decisions against Smith, Tillis, and Tucker come to mind. These guys were hardly a murderers row, but they were somewhat competitive (not Smith though). Based on these fights, I can see many greats beating Tyson:

Ali in his early prime 1967 IMO would TKO Tyson late. He just had too many skills, long range speed, intellegence, and underrated power for Tyson to deal with. Add the psychological warfare that he would use and I find it hard to go against Ali.

Foreman would KO Tyson. The guy just hit too hard, had a very good chin (Holyfield threw the kitchen sink), was faster than given credit (see the Frazier #1 fight), and he would use his long arms and overall strength to push Tyson all around the ring. He'd be like Bonehugger Smith but with a great offense and more speed.

I would not write off Lewis or Riddick Bowe either. They were big and strong and had the skills to beat Tyson

Who would Tyson beat?

Holmes in his prime got hurt too much and once Tyson smelled blood I think he would get him. That Holmes Norton fight shows me that Tyson could beat him.

Norton. Tyson would bounce him around the ring like Foreman.


Marciano, Louis, Dempsey are tough calls to make for me.

[MrSmall]

Sigh.

[californicator]

grimreaper = n00b. stfu

[scurlaruntings]

Holyfield was past his prime when he beat Tyson also:deal i don't give a shit who's past their prime, they agreed and signed to take the fight so it is what it is, Tyson was the most over-rated heavy in history that's why he was waxed by Douglas..:lol: A 42-1 DOG..Care to name any other past heavys that were OVERRATED who unified all the belts were linear and ranked in the top 15 heavys of all time?

[Punisher33]

Correct me if I'm wrong, wasnt Tyson the last Heavyweight to be ranked P4P number 1 by ring magazine?

[scurlaruntings]

Correct me if I'm wrong, wasnt Tyson the last Heavyweight to be ranked P4P number 1 by ring magazine?Correct. But hey the "RINGS" overrated too..

[Punisher33]

Correct. But hey the "RINGS" overrated too.. That is true, especially most recently with DLH in charge. I still believe physically, Tyson was probably the most gifted athlete we have ever seen in the Heavyweight division, as well as the most violent.

[scurlaruntings]

That is true, especially most recently with DLH in charge. I still believe physically, Tyson was probably the most gifted athlete we have ever seen in the Heavyweight division, as well as the most violent.Ok i was joking about the overrated part :yep

[Punisher33]

Ok i was joking about the overrated part :yep :lol: I thought you were serious, alot of people do seem to think ring magazine is overrated anymore.

[scurlaruntings]

:lol: I thought you were serious, alot of people do seem to think ring magazine is overrated anymore.the "RING" (s) on point. Its just a shame GBP bought them out. Thats years of tradition just gone and with the possibility of its rankings being biased. Bottom line is not since Mike Tyson has there been a heavy as the best P4P fighter on the planet. Thats hardly overrated.

[Punisher33]

the "RING" (s) on point. Its just a shame GBP bought them out. Thats years of tradition just gone and with the possibility of its rankings being biased. Bottom line is not since Mike Tyson has there been a heavy as the best P4P fighter on the planet. Thats hardly overrated. Agreed, I highly doubt we will ever see another Heavyweight being crowned P4P champ, at least not anytime soon.

[Mike T]

Another thing, people seem to think Tyson was in his prime pre Duglass. No way a guy can be in their prime if theyre that young and havent faught nothing but bums and old guysYou're a douchebag.:patsch