the greatest journeyman

[Vantage_West]

i made this thread before and got loads of suggestions

and i used to go back to it and as sadly we have lost the files of the threads. so im starting it again.

ok to dfine a journeyman they can win fights even a large majority and can win a title but they have a a huge portion of losses.

so any discuss

[Vantage_West]

well yea true but i mean you can win a title and maybe defend it a few times but not a charles i think your being a little cheeky

[unitas]

mine is buck smith. the man was just a fringe contender at best, but managed to get into the record books for his 118 knockout victories.
and he did it by teaching himself to box and never had a trainer.

manning galloway also deserves a mention.

[Vantage_West]

mine is buck smith. the man was just a fringe contender at best, but managed to get into the record books for his 118 knockout victories.
and he did it by teaching himself to box and never had a trainer.

manning galloway also deserves a mention.yeah buck smith you told me about him fightign twice on the same day:think
crazy guy good for him

[Luigi1985]

By your criteria it would be Ezzard Charles.


Good mention, I would vote Pernell Whitaker.

[Bummy Davis]

George"Scrapiron"Johnson,Marion Wilson,Ross Purity, Levi Billups,BigFoot Martin,Saul Montana,

[Luigi1985]

Really? He had A LOT of losses? Stop trying dude, you're not even clever. Pernell didn;t fit his criteria at all, and based on his criteria you could say Charles, even though he clearly was not a journeyman. So fuck off.


Dumb respond for a stupid post. Charles had ca. 120 fights, Whitaker 45, big difference, Charles has also the deeper resume...

[fightking12]

James J Braddock
Mickey Wards

[buzzsaw]

Would Kevin Pompay qualify?
Reggie Strickland ?
Tony Rutledge ?
Bruce Strauss?

[Sizzle]

I've always thought of a journeyman as someone who loses who he's supposed to lose to, and beats who he's supposed to beat. The
"best" journeymen break the pattern once or twice in their career and become loved for it - Braddock winning the World title, Ward beating Gatti (Although I admit he was immensley respected even prior to this)

They're basically good fighters who aren't realistically expected to contend for a title, but may prove to be a banana peel and will give you a good fight.

Lovemore N'Dou is probably my favourite current. You have to love Ward.

I don't consider Jersey Joe a journeyman, I think that's a little disrespectful to a solid contender with an incredible resume and some impressive wins.

[Luigi1985]

I just said Charles wasn't a journeyman you assclown! I said based on the OP's criteria he could be considered one, even though in actuality he wasn't. Learn to read. Obviously he had a deeper resume being that he had almost 3 times the amount of fights. For his number of fights, Pernell's was amazingly deep.


What a surprise that you defend Pernell. Fact is, never mind what the thread creator asked, a great fighter like Charles and the noun journeyman don´t fit eachother, like Prince and women. If Whitaker would have fought the calibres of Louis, Walcott, Marciano, Satterfield, Wallace, Layne, Valdes, Johnson, Bivins, Brion, Maxim, Oma, Ray, Moore, Burley, etc. he would have also more losses. Same with Marciano, if he would have fought Foreman, Ali, Liston, etc. he wouldn´t also be undefeated, that´s logical. Charles career has so many great names in it, not comparable with Whitaker´s resume. And with your childish swearwords, it would be better you reserve and save them for your mother...

[janitor]

I guess by the criteria outlined Jack Johnson would be the obvious choice.

Once a fighter starts beating ranked contenders they cannot be called a journeyman any more. Once they win the title they don't bellong in the same sentence as the word.

[AREA 53]

Tom "the Bomb" Bethea ( Actually upset Nino Benvenuti in a non title fight
- but could not do it with the title on the line)

Carlos Marks
Roberto Davilia
Jack O'hallaran
Mike Jameson

[Titan1]

George Chaplin. He arguably beat Greg Page in two fights( though I think Greg edged him) and gave Michael Dokes fits.He looked good in a round against Gerry Cooney before being stopped and went the distance with Gerrie Coetzee.

[Vantage_West]

I guess by the criteria outlined Jack Johnson would be the obvious choice.

Once a fighter starts beating ranked contenders they cannot be called a journeyman any more. Once they win the title they don't bellong in the same sentence as the word.
mike weaver
adrian dodson
kieth mullings
all titlist and beat good guys but were beaten by guys who had little skill power.



what about....tony galento

[unitas]

and lets not forget marty jakubowski!!!

record: 114-7 (33).

[Zakman]

Everybody in his day considered him a journeyman. That's what he was, Sizzle. It wasn't until the war saw millions of young men overseas that Walcott returned to the ring (after a long retirement) and was able to move up through the rankings. The man lost 18 fights against fewer than 60 wins and was knocked out 6 times. He was beaten by light heavyweight Joey Maxim and was even knocked out by Abe Simon. Walcott is the quintessential journeyman.

You're absolutely right. Although he eventually rose above the "journeyman" label, for most of his career, that's exactly what Walcott was. People remember him mostly for his close "loss" to Louis, his series with Ezzard Charles, and his fights with Marciano. But before all that, he was very much a journeyman.

To me, a classic journeyman are guys like Marion Wilson and Everett "Bigfoot" Martin - guys that provide a test, but only rarely, if ever, beat the next level of fighter. The "journeyman made good" - guys like Braddock, Walcott or Weaver - transcend their status by winning titles and contending.

[Bigcat]

Heavyweights
David Jaco..
Garing Lane..
Everett Martin..

They all had at least one day in the sun......

Jaco got an unlikely win over Razor Ruddock
Lane beat a live Alex Garcia and dropped Corrie Sanders heavily on the Lewis v McCall 1 undercard..

Everett Martin was actually the first ever man to put an unbeaten Mike Moorer on the deck before he won the heavyweight title...

[Minotauro]

Not sure if he'd be classified as a journeyman but Sam McVea and Kid Herman

[Drew101]

Saoul Mamby

[robert ungurean]

Harold Weston jr.
Holly Mimms

[brownpimp88]

What a surprise that you defend Pernell. Fact is, never mind what the thread creator asked, a great fighter like Charles and the noun journeyman don´t fit eachother, like Prince and women. If Whitaker would have fought the calibres of Louis, Walcott, Marciano, Satterfield, Wallace, Layne, Valdes, Johnson, Bivins, Brion, Maxim, Oma, Ray, Moore, Burley, etc. he would have also more losses. Same with Marciano, if he would have fought Foreman, Ali, Liston, etc. he wouldn´t also be undefeated, that´s logical. Charles career has so many great names in it, not comparable with Whitaker´s resume. And with your childish swearwords, it would be better you reserve and save them for your mother...
I agree 100% with this post. If whitaker had actually fought camacho, quartey, meldrick taylor, terry norris and kostya tyszu,.There is no way anyone can honestly tell me that he would end up winning all 5 fights.

[brownpimp88]

4 of the 5. He would likely lose to Norris at 154 though. And this is completely off topic, I never said anything at all about how Whitaker compares to Charles before this idiot took my initial post seriously because he doesn't know what sarcasm is. Well, i'm just indirectly implying that if whitaker had approxiametly 60 fights between 1985-1999, you would see about 5-8 losses on his overall resume.

You have to realize that stylistically, all 5 of these guys would give pernell whitaker a very tough fight. Niether one of them are the type that whitaker usually clowns around with. Kostya Tyzu is great against southpaws, meldrick taylor and camacho are extremely quick and athletic and they possess excellent boxing skills. Terry Norris has the reach and power over whitaker, ike quartey would give him a similiar fight to that of the first encounter with buddy mcgirt.

[thunder06]

James J Braddock was the greatest journeyman. I also like Micky Ward. Do any of you consider Arturo Gatti a journeyman?

[janitor]

Everybody in his day considered him a journeyman. That's what he was, Sizzle.

Virtualy everybody started out their career working as a journeyman in those days. Jack Johnson, Sam Lanngford, Jack Dempsey, Archie Moore. It was the only way you could learn the trade.

That dose not mean that Walcotts career can be sumarised by saying that he was a journeyman who got lucky. He cleaned out the division prior to facing Louis for the title was a pivotal figure in the division untill he won the title.

[Vantage_West]

Virtualy everybody started out their career working as a journeyman in those days. Jack Johnson, Sam Lanngford, Jack Dempsey, Archie Moore. It was the only way you could learn the trade.

That dose not mean that Walcotts career can be sumarised by saying that he was a journeyman who got lucky. He cleaned out the division prior to facing Louis for the title was a pivotal figure in the division untill he won the title.really i thought he was a replacement against louis...but you have more posts than me thus i might be wrong

but he did beat the best men in his division, though he could be outboxed andf was hittable and his defence flashy as it was and confuzing could be easily turned around by a hook.

[Vantage_West]

1947's heavyweight world rank Joe Baksi. After defeating English champion,Bruce Woodcock, Baksi was scheduled to fight Joe Louis for a Heavyweight world title. After the duel, Baksi was hanging around in Europe and spent a lot of money there. When he should return to US, he almost run out of money, so he signed contract for a fight against local Sweden champion, Olle Tandberg in Stocholm. Baksi was lost on points due to his bad endurance. Then his promotor Mike Jacobs cancelled the schedule, and Joe Walcott replaced his position to fight Louis. Then, in the next fight vs Ezzard Charles, Baksi was again defeated
maybe this was common and not a big deal.

[CASH_718]

Freddy Pendleton

[David B]

Pendleton

[Senya13]

Jersey Joe Walcott for me.

[mochabuzz]

Joe Hipp

[Luigi1985]

I think (although most of you have English as their mother tongue) some of you guys here don´t know what a journeyman is, world champions can´t be journeymen, only later in their career, when they´re shot and old and fight only for their money (Joe Brown for example) than they´re in this moment journeymen, but at their best they were world class, so that´s bullshit to rate them as journeymen, Walcott, Charles, Gatti, etc. weren´t journeymen...

[Ramon Rojo]

Jersey Joe Walcott

[Sweet Science]

I would say Sam Langford was possibly the most avoided fighter.

[Sweet Science]

Sorry wrong thread,

Apologies, still tring to get used to navigating around the site and posting!

[Vantage_West]

I think (although most of you have English as their mother tongue) some of you guys here don´t know what a journeyman is, world champions can´t be journeymen, only later in their career, when they´re shot and old and fight only for their money (Joe Brown for example) than they´re in this moment journeymen, but at their best they were world class, so that´s bullshit to rate them as journeymen, Walcott, Charles, Gatti, etc. weren´t journeymen... he fights for pay which is common but fights anyone and losess alot of fights

joe grim could be given a pat on the back as he was a man who only fought for money.
jimmy thunder i would consider a journeyman great puncher against good comp just lost alot of times.

anyways journeymen means that they fight for a living...and not for a career. journey= day (in the day the work) man=man :good

if they win a belt then that means they won a title but doesnt mean they are are still journeymen.

[Vantage_West]

micky ward won the wbu belt which is the 6th belt in importance but he wasnt a well schooled boxer,and loss many a time.

james braddock i wouldnt consider a journeyman he was a top contender at light heavy and was a well touted prospect. he just lost a few times and look futile for a world title shot and he did fight back and won the title over highly regarded max baer.

[Vantage_West]

anyone noted uriah grant?
cruiserwieght champ ibo belt methinks
born in jamaica ,lost an beat top cruisers , tommy hearns retire(though it was a broken ankle more right timing at the right place than skill) had a real war with carl tompson rocked back and fourth all night long.won the belt form sellers/norris (i think cant remeber)
true power good skills was a real warrior
uriah grant best cruiserwieght journeyman

[Asterion]

Angel Robinson Garcia

[mr. magoo]

I don't know if anyone remembers Harold Brazier. Personally, I think he deserves a nod.

[janitor]

He didn't clean out the division. He was beaten by Joe Louis, Joey Maxim, Rex Layne, Ezzard Charles, and Rocky Marciano. Three of those loses were by knockout.

Look at the annual rankings for the 40s and 50s then highlight the fighters Walcott beat.

You might find it enlightening.

[la-califa]

How about, Alvaro "Yaqui" Lopez, Armando Muniz, or "Yori Boy" Campas. Murray Sutherland, Colin Jones. Tough fighters All, Just a bit of bad luck...

[Vantage_West]

ross puritty
fought all the hardest and unbeaten fighters in the sport good chin great power little technique

im surprised that no one has said his name but

emanual augustus.....fouhgt 8 world champoins made every fight entertaining class act and can beat the best of the comp

[Vantage_West]

How about, Alvaro "Yaqui" Lopez, Armando Muniz, or "Yori Boy" Campas. Murray Sutherland, Colin Jones. Tough fighters All, Just a bit of bad luck...campas was a good fihgter and below elite fighter we are lookiong for guys that lose and win sparingly but are good fighters campas is too good to be a journeyman

[Vantage_West]

julius francis
typical thug turned boxer
was undefeated for no more than 6 fights before being stopped by a 'young' john ruiz (young meaning not huggy bear ruiz) and was dropped as a journeyman already
beat the late james oyebola,danny williams,garry deleney,pele reid
fought oleg maskaev,audley harrison,matt skelton scott gammer,sinan samil sam,axel shulz,vitali klitshko
this is a very thick resume for a man of his stature underated but was never going to win world honours
fought every single british heavywieght champ and is one of the few boxers to have the lonsdale belt 5 times he won a commonwealth title fight and 4 british title fights against very tough competition.


[Only registered and activated users can see links](look at his shoe...see that red mark? that is a sticker saying daily mirror thats how much chance he had of winning that a paper was advertising on the bottom of his shoe)
[Only registered and activated users can see links]


[Only registered and activated users can see links]
julius francis i salute you


ps he is now going into cage rage

[KTFO]

Ken Norton.

[Vantage_West]

Ken Norton.wadafuk:patsch

[KTFO]

wadafuk:patsch


Get lost! :finger

[KTFO]

George Chuvalo



Ha,Exactly. :smooch

[KTFO]

:blood



Huh? Yes,you're right. I know it.

[Duodenum]

I don't know if anyone remembers Harold Brazier. Personally, I think he deserves a nod.Brazier certainly does. I tend to think of Harold "Little Man" Petty as a journeyman, Irish Teddy Mann, and any number of preliminary mainstays from the early years of Top Rank Boxing on ESPN.

Bob Stallings, Leroy Caldwell, Tiger Ted Lowry (67 losses, but 64 of those were by decision.)

[Lex]

Jorge Ahumada, a tough Argentinian light heavyweight who (other than an early career KO loss) won against all but the top light heavies - Galindez, Foster, Conteh, Peralta. Of three bouts with Peralta he won two. Five wars with Galindez, winning one, being kayoed in three, finishing their series with a grinding 15 rounder on the same PPV card with Monzon-Licata and Ali-Bugner.