Herol Graham underated?

[pne buz]

Just mentioned him on another thread so i thought id do this.The man had supreme talent but never captured a world crown.He ran Mike McCallum close in a split decision,boxed Julian Jacksons ears off before copping for a pearler in the 4th and lost to Charles Brewer who bravely rallied after being outboxed.He also lost a ridiculous points decision for the European crown against an Italian whos name escapes me.
Graham was frozen out of the Benn/Eubank/Watson roadshow also.****** claimed that Benn and Eubank were the best but chose to pit them against each other and various other British make weights whilst not entertaining Toney,McCallum,Jones,Nunn,Jackson etc.
So the question is was Herol Graham unlucky,underated or shy of world level.And how do you think he would of fared against the best Britain had to offer had he been given the chance!

[onourway]

On the subject of him Vs Britain's finest...

Didn't Eubank say he sparred with Graham and got his head boxed off? Think he said he never even layed a glove on him.

[pne buz]

On the subject of him Vs Britain's finest...

Didn't Eubank say he sparred with Graham and got his head boxed off? Think he said he never even layed a glove on him.

I think the same happened with Alan Minter when Graham was young!

[trotter]

Graham was out of the British loop being an Ingle fighter

He wasn't the first and certainly not the last (cough, Junior)

He was a bloody good fighter and would easily snaffle a belt these days, no drama. The Jackson loss was just devastating, he had utterly boxed his ears off and Jackson's eye was shut, he only had to survive a round or two more and Jackson would've been pulled out.

Let's put it this way, he was more 'Hamed level' than 'Witter level', in my opinion.

[Lucky Punch]

Brendan explains all

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[TFFP]

Extremely so

It is easy to cast him aside as a nearly man. I'm pretty sure McCallum said he was his toughest fight, and McCallum has fought a few decent fighters in his time. It is true Eubank said he was one the best gym fighters he has ever seen

He was a great defensive fighter, and probably the one of the slickest and most skillful fighters Britain has ever produced. One has to see him in action rather than simply to gaze over his record to appreciate what a fighter he was, and his standing in British boxing history

[brown bomber]

Extremely so

It is easy to cast him aside as a nearly man. I'm pretty sure McCallum said he was his toughest fight, and McCallum has fought a few decent fighters in his time. It is true Eubank said he was one the best gym fighters he has ever seen

He was a great defensive fighter, and probably the one of the slickest and most skillful fighters Britain has ever produced. One has to see him in action rather than simply to gaze over his record to appreciate what a fighter he was, and his standing in British boxing history Spot on he was the epitome of Brendan Ingles defensive genius. I don't think he was as good as Benn or Eubank though. Sparring is one thing, fighting is another and he didn't seem to have the pop to be a major player at world level. Lovely to watch at times but not in a smooth stylish way.

[kurt2006]

Spot on he was the epitome of Brendan Ingles defensive genius. I don't think he was as good as Benn or Eubank though. Sparring is one thing, fighting is another and he didn't seem to have the pop to be a major player at world level. Lovely to watch at times but not in a smooth stylish way.

I think in terms of pure skill he was better than Benn and Eubank.

[kurt2006]

Brendan explains all

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Ingles impression of Eubank is class.

[Scratch]

Don't know if he's underrated, he had (some) chances and came up (just) short.

Doesn't bother me though, he's still one of my all time favourite fighters. I see him beating Eubank but Benn probably catches up with him sooner or later.

[faisal]

i feel for the guy he always came up short in the big fights had his chin been a bit stronger he could have gone far

[columbo man]

i thought the guy was absolute class!!!
i remember that in training he used to invite people into the ring to try and hit him while he had his hands tied behind his back.
his skills were very much underrated but i can never forget that jackson fight, he was on the verge of winning that until jackson landed that jackpot punch!!!!

[ApatheticLeader]

I think in terms of pure skill he was better than Benn and Eubank.

He was a better fighter than Benn and Eubank fullstop. In fact, so was Michael Watson.

[9Ball]

Graham was very underrated imo. His skills were undeniable, so quick and slick. Unfortunately the devastating Jackson ko will be what I remember his career for :? If he could have just stayed clear for a little longer it could have catapulted him into some major big fights and really earned himself a name and a few quid to boot!! :deal

Bomber was also a true gent and genuine nice guy out of the ring and puts some of todays 'pros' to shame.

:cool:

[ApatheticLeader]

He had his chances & blew em.....BIG TIME.

No, he blew ONE chance big time. Losing very close decisions against truly brilliant fighters like Mike McCullum and Sambu Kalambay does not constitute blowing chances. Benn would have been outclassed by both fighters, and Eubank too. And a hopelessly past his peak Graham was beating Brewer more decisively than Calzaghe did before getting caught late on. Graham is probably the best British 160/168 fighter of the last 50 years despite the lack of a world title. Michael Watson and Calzaghe are fighting it out for second.

[TFFP]

No way he did enough to pass Calzaghe's achievements. Let's not get carried away. The fact of the matter is he's still more style than substance, legacy wise

[brown bomber]

No, he blew ONE chance big time. Losing very close decisions against truly brilliant fighters like Mike McCullum and Sambu Kalambay does not constitute blowing chances. Benn would have been outclassed by both fighters, and Eubank too. And a hopelessly past his peak Graham was beating Brewer more decisively than Calzaghe did before getting caught late on. Graham is probably the best British 160/168 fighter of the last 50 years despite the lack of a world title. Michael Watson and Calzaghe are fighting it out for second. That is bullshit... appreciate you may be a big fan but part of been a great fighter is proving yourself to be the best in the world and for him to even contend the top spot in such a historically talent rich division he should have at least held some version of the world title.

Calzaghe, Benn and Eubank would never have lost to Sumbu Kalambay and despite pushing McCallum close I have a feeling that Calzaghe and a peak Benn would have been to much for McCallum.

Herol was fabulously skilled but he commited boxing suicide trying to go for the finish against Jackson when a clever, thoughtful approach would have seen him force a late injury stoppage. If he was a truly great fighter he would known this and not walked on to the right hand that sent his brains into orbit... Great fighters at their peak don't do things like that.

1. Benn
2. Calzaghe
3. Eubank
4. Collins
5. Graham/Watson
7. Rob Reid
8. Henry Wharton
9. Glenn Catley
10. Richie Woodhall

[hitman_hatton1]

No, he blew ONE chance big time. Losing very close decisions against truly brilliant fighters like Mike McCullum and Sambu Kalambay does not constitute blowing chances. Benn would have been outclassed by both fighters, and Eubank too. And a hopelessly past his peak Graham was beating Brewer more decisively than Calzaghe did before getting caught late on. Graham is probably the best British 160/168 fighter of the last 50 years despite the lack of a world title. Michael Watson and Calzaghe are fighting it out for second.

i disagree that graham was beating brewer more decisively.

i think calzaghe won 10 rds against brewer.

graham wasn't dominating like that in that fight.

i agree he only blew the one chance though.

and even that was against a freak of a puncher in jackson. :patsch

[TFFP]

That is bullshit... appreciate you may be a big fan but part of been a great fighter is proving yourself to be the best in the world and for him to even contend the top spot in such a historically talent rich division he should have at least held some version of the world title.

Calzaghe, Benn and Eubank would never have lost to Sumbu Kalambay and despite pushing McCallum close I have a feeling that Calzaghe and a peak Benn would have been to much for McCallum.

Herol was fabulously skilled but he commited boxing suicide trying to go for the finish against Jackson when a clever, thoughtful approach would have seen him force a late injury stoppage. If he was a truly great fighter he would known this and not walked on to the right hand that sent his brains into orbit... Great fighters at their peak don't do things like that.

1. Benn
2. Calzaghe
3. Eubank
4. Collins
5. Graham/Watson
7. Rob Reid
8. Henry Wharton
9. Glenn Catley
10. Richie Woodhall
:deal

I'd maybe have him above Collins though. On paper he doesn't deserve it, and I realise there is only so far you can take the 'But look at his skills' approach, but I do feel he was a superior fighter to Collins

No real arguments though

[hitman_hatton1]

benn at no1. :roll:

[Mantequilla]

That is bullshit... appreciate you may be a big fan but part of been a great fighter is proving yourself to be the best in the world and for him to even contend the top spot in such a historically talent rich division he should have at least held some version of the world title.

Calzaghe, Benn and Eubank would never have lost to Sumbu Kalambay and despite pushing McCallum close I have a feeling that Calzaghe and a peak Benn would have been to much for McCallum.

Herol was fabulously skilled but he commited boxing suicide trying to go for the finish against Jackson when a clever, thoughtful approach would have seen him force a late injury stoppage. If he was a truly great fighter he would known this and not walked on to the right hand that sent his brains into orbit... Great fighters at their peak don't do things like that.

1. Benn
2. Calzaghe
3. Eubank
4. Collins
5. Graham/Watson
7. Rob Reid
8. Henry Wharton
9. Glenn Catley
10. Richie Woodhall

Kalambay was a much better fighter than Benn or Eubank(and Calzaghe should be compared to lightheavyweights not middles he has fought over the middle limit for his entire career).he was better than any of the British middles of that era.

They both stayed well away from him for good reason.

[roscoe]

The commentators put the mocker on Graham in the Jackson fight. They were already crowning him champion & lining up defenses when out of the blue came the KBANG left hook. Still one of the best single KO punches I've seen. Poor Graham, he was out of it for a week!

[Beeston Brawler]

Graham was a top notch operator, trouble was, he didn't look in the mirror when defeated, he blamed his trainer!

They developed a style which made him brilliant, yet he was obsessed with proving how tough he was as opposed to just winning the fight - see the four round schooling of Julian Jackson, followed by the brutal KO against him!

Pretty much every guy who beat him was a big puncher, he should have had the ring savvy to be able to deal with punchers, and didn't - a great shame.

[ApatheticLeader]

thomas]That is bullshit... appreciate you may be a big fan but part of been a great fighter is proving yourself to be the best in the world and for him to even contend the top spot in such a historically talent rich division he should have at least held some version of the world title.[/B]

Calzaghe, Benn and Eubank would never have lost to Sumbu Kalambay and despite pushing McCallum close I have a feeling that Calzaghe and a peak Benn would have been to much for McCallum.

Herol was fabulously skilled but he commited boxing suicide trying to go for the finish against Jackson when a clever, thoughtful approach would have seen him force a late injury stoppage. If he was a truly great fighter he would known this and not walked on to the right hand that sent his brains into orbit... Great fighters at their peak don't do things like that.

1. Benn
2. Calzaghe
3. Eubank
4. Collins
5. Graham/Watson
7. Rob Reid
8. Henry Wharton
9. Glenn Catley
10. Richie Woodhall

I take it you think that John Ruiz was a better fighter than Ken Norton then? And no I'm not a particularly big fan of Graham, but let's face it - Eubank has probably had more poor performance than good ones. People state that he was never the same after the 2nd Watson fight, yet wasn't he getting beaten very, very decisively before one punch turned the tide in the 12th? And this is forgetting the fact that the 1st fight was very close.

[Betty Swollocks]

no, he was not underrated. Everyone knows what a good boxer he was and that for one reason ot another he never got a title.
Infact reading this thread, if anything he gets overrated these days.

[brown bomber]

I take it you think that John Ruiz was a better fighter than Ken Norton then? And no I'm not a particularly big fan of Graham, but let's face it - Eubank has probably had more poor performance than good ones. People state that he was never the same after the 2nd Watson fight, yet wasn't he getting beaten very, very decisively before one punch turned the tide in the 12th? And this is forgetting the fact that the 1st fight was very close. It was the 11th that he turned things round... but still- ultimately he turned it round which is what great fighters do. Ruiz better then Ken Norton? How so? :?

[brown bomber]

benn at no1. :roll: Problem? :lol:

[hitman_hatton1]

Problem? :lol:

no that's alright. :lol:

[brown bomber]

no that's alright. :lol: I mean who'd put Calzaghe at the top?

[ApatheticLeader]

It was the 11th that he turned things round... but still- ultimately he turned it round which is what great fighters do. Ruiz better then Ken Norton? How so? :?

Because Ruiz held a version of the world title and Norton didn't.

[dan-b]

Because Ruiz held a version of the world title and Norton didn't.

So did Frans Botha. Do you think he is a better fighter than Norton? Eubank was a very good fighter but hid behind the WBO like many others.

[ApatheticLeader]

So did Frans Botha. Do you think he is a better fighter than Norton? Eubank was a very good fighter but hid behind the WBO like many others.

I'm going by Jeff Thomas' logic....

[columbo man]

No, he blew ONE chance big time. Losing very close decisions against truly brilliant fighters like Mike McCullum and Sambu Kalambay does not constitute blowing chances. Benn would have been outclassed by both fighters, and Eubank too. And a hopelessly past his peak Graham was beating Brewer more decisively than Calzaghe did before getting caught late on. Graham is probably the best British 160/168 fighter of the last 50 years despite the lack of a world title. Michael Watson and Calzaghe are fighting it out for second.


i was a big herol graham fan, thought the guy was class, but better than calzaghe, eubank and benn, do me a favour:thumbsup

[brown bomber]

I'm going by Jeff Thomas' logic.... Name one world class victory? Norton beat Ali and a host of good class heavyweights- who did Herol beat of true world class merit? Just admit saying Herol was number one is silly.

[Mantequilla]

I don't see any problem with someone rating Graham over the likes of Benn and especially Collins.

None of them were true greats, most being very good.Some just had an easier road than others.

Graham didnt get a title shot till about 10\11 years into his career and was for the most part very badly promoted.

Were he a ****** fighter today, he probably ends up squandering his career defending a WBO title for years, with a nice clean record.

[brown bomber]

Graham didnt get a title shot till about 10\11 years into his career and was for the most part very badly promoted.

Were he a ****** fighter today, he probably ends up squandering his career defending a WBO title for years, with a nice clean record. Fair point

[Cobra33]

How about Lindell Holmes-he went on to latter become a champion.

How about Sanderline Williams-Very god pro.You know the same Williams who Years latter held JAMES TONEY to a draw and lost a SPLIT Decision to NIGEL BENN.

How about Sumbu Kalambay-True Graham lost the first match but everyone knows he was robbed in the second meeting.

Mark Kaylor-Not the best but was world class.

Mike Mccallum-Lost a split decision and if not for a BS point deduction would have had a draw.


Rod Douglas-Great prospect.Loads of potential.Lost to Graham.

How about 2 time world champ Vinny Paz- A past his prime Graham cameback and outboxed him.

I can't believe someone would say name one worldclass victory Graham has???

Eubank, and Benn wouldn't even go NEAR a Mike Mccallum or Kalambay.