Hatton out of Ring Mag p4p top 10

[ishy]

Yep, after the Lazcano perfomance they've dropped him from the p4p list. Rafa Marquez replaces him.

List in full:

1)FLOYD MAYWEATHER
2)MANNY PACQUIAO
3)JOE CALZAGHE
4)JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ
5)BERNARD HOPKINS
6)ISRAEL VAZQUEZ
7)MIGUEL COTTO
8)KELLY PAVLIK
9)CRISTIAN MIJARES
10)RAFAEL MARQUEZ

[D-MAC]

Good:good

[Haye]

Seems more than fair to be honest.

[Lampley]

That part sounds fair, but it's tough to say your rankings are credible having Hopkins that high. I just hope that's not because he's a partner at the magazine.

[Azriel]

Yep, after the Lazcano perfomance they've dropped him from the p4p list. Rafa Marquez replaces him.

List in full:

1)FLOYD MAYWEATHER
2)MANNY PACQUIAO
3)JOE CALZAGHE
4)JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ
5)BERNARD HOPKINS
6)ISRAEL VAZQUEZ
7)MIGUEL COTTO
8)KELLY PAVLIK
9)CRISTIAN MIJARES
10)RAFAEL MARQUEZ

Ok, here's my 2 cents;

no problems with 1-2-3-4


Why the HELL is Bernard Hopkins still there? Anyways, I know i'll get flames but I just think he should be OUT of that list. For multiple reasons ranging from, he lost 5 times... and to people who aren't even in the top 10.
Cotto should be higher then Hopkins.
Pavlik should be higher then anyone having more then 4 loss

[kartog]

That's a nasty avatar...

[Haye]

Pavlik should be higher then anyone having more then 4 loss

:nono

Why?

Vazquez has 4 losses, and he is p4p a far superior fighter to Pavlik. Rafa Marquez has 5 losses, and likewise is a better fighter.

[Haye]

JMM has 4 losses, and is undeniably out of Pavlik's league.

[Azriel]

JMM has 4 losses, and is undeniably out of Pavlik's league.

Ok, I was strickly speaking about Hopkins ;) I should have worded this diffrently.

[Azriel]

I have a stupid question. I don't know the lower weight classes that well... so maybe someone can enlighten me. Why isn't Chris John in there?

[mike464]

I don't see how they can have JMM below Calzaghe

[Beeston Brawler]

I would have Hatton at No. 10, but I think there is a case for dropping him from the top 10.

At least Winky is outta there now, hopefully Hopkins will follow shortly.

[smiffy]

lies, damn lies and statistics.

[Monstar]

I think Oscar is making Gayweather look like he's #1.. So he can say he's fighting the #1 guy out there... Cause Gayweather isn't doing squat shit to deserve the #1 spot... We all know that Cotto is fighting the better opponents. Why is Cotto below Hopkins?????


hmmm... i think you may be on to something

[ishy]

I think with Hopkins, he was rated highly before the JC fight so when he lost they didn't drop him all together but kept him in the list(although five is a bit too high).

If Hopkins fights again and puts in a poor performance I guess they'll drop him like they have Hatton.

[D-MAC]

I have a stupid question. I don't know the lower weight classes that well... so maybe someone can enlighten me. Why isn't Chris John in there?

Because his competition before he got a dodgy decision against JMM was a bit shit, and the competition since that "win" has been a bit shit.

Hence no top 10 spot for him.

[Azriel]

So, who gets to answer my question? Why isn't Chris John in there?

[mike464]

I don't think Hopkins should be more than one spot below Calzaghe, the fight was close and I had Hopkins winning. For similar reasons I don't think JMM should be more than one spot below Pacquiao.

[Azriel]

I don't think Hopkins should be more than one spot below Calzaghe, the fight was close and I had Hopkins winning. For similar reasons I don't think JMM should be more than one spot below Pacquiao.

Dude, if you had Hopkins winning, that's why you'Re not a judge. Secondly, it shouldn't have been a split decision. But I agree with you that it's probably why he is still in the P4P.

Now, Chris John?

[ishy]

Now, Chris John?
If you look it's being answered by someone else. The post above your previous post.

[Amsterdam]

I don't see how they can have JMM below Calzaghe

His resume on paper is not as good, he's not undefeated, overall comp is very comparable with Calzaghe having better performances consistently.

[Tunney5]

Bernard (one punch then hold) Hopkins should not be rated higher than Cotto, Pavlik, Marquez, and Mijares.

Hatton should be about #11 or #12.

[mike464]

Dude, if you had Hopkins winning, that's why you'Re not a judge. Secondly, it shouldn't have been a split decision. But I agree with you that it's probably why he is still in the P4P.

Now, Chris John?That would make sense if one of the judges and lots of others hadn't given the fight to Hopkins.

[kitribor]

Floyd should not be at the top now,he's not fighting now and no scheduled fight yet to come,i think hes partially retired.Either Calzaghe or Pacman should be placed on the top of the list followed by Pavlic, Vazquez, Cotto makes on the top 5.

[Azriel]

That would make sense if one of the judges and lots of others hadn't given the fight to Hopkins.

Comon, you know as well as I do that the only reason Hopkins got a split is because his name is Hopkins. His name would have been Raymond Tremblay and it would have been unanimous from both Judges and fans.

[J.R.]

Whoa, they knocked him down after a win?! Wasn't expecting that, although I'm not complaining. I guess you can't exactly say that RING magazine panders to Golden Boy affiliated fighters.

[mike464]

Comon, you know as well as I do that the only reason Hopkins got a split is because his name is Hopkins. His name would have been Raymond Tremblay and it would have been unanimous from both Judges and fans.And if his name was Calzaghe he would have won.

[Amsterdam]

Comon, you know as well as I do that the only reason Hopkins got a split is because his name is Hopkins. His name would have been Raymond Tremblay and it would have been unanimous from both Judges and fans.

I just don't see how anybody felt he won, I gave him 3 rounds in 4 viewings, I can see how he can be given a 4th if you really want to, but that's still losing clearly.

I think the KD confused people also, it was a flash KD and that made it seem like Hopkins' punches were even more effective for the next set of rounds, when Calzaghe ate several other flush straight rights no problem and was outscoring Hopkins.

Something interesting was how well Joe did when Hopkins pressed, he immediatley sent Hopkins back in the counter punching role near the ropes, as he couldn't compete with Joe as the matador, nobody really can, coming straight at Calzaghe is losing the fight, he's most vulnerable on the chase and that's what Hopkins presented.

[Azriel]

I just don't see how anybody felt he won, I gave him 3 rounds in 4 viewings, I can see how he can be given a 4th if you really want to, but that's still losing clearly.

I think the KD confused people also, it was a flash KD and that made it seem like Hopkins' punches were even more effective for the next set of rounds, when Calzaghe ate several other flush straight rights no problem and was outscoring Hopkins.

Something interesting was how well Joe did when Hopkins pressed, he immediatley sent Hopkins back in the counter punching role near the ropes, as he couldn't compete with Joe as the matador, nobody really can, coming straight at Calzaghe is losing the fight, he's most vulnerable on the chase and that's what Hopkins presented.

I completly agree with you on that. And as I said, it's probably because his name is Hopkins. The guy is a legend, we can't deny that... but he didn't win this fight.

[mike464]

At the same time I can't see how people say Calzaghe won. Mind you I couldn't see how people had DLH beating Mayweather but there were plenty.

[mike464]

His name is Hopkins... Well that didn't help him much in the Taylor fights. Hopkins is not very popular at all and it seems he has to win a vast majority of the rounds for a fight to go his way.

[Beeston Brawler]

His resume on paper is not as good, he's not undefeated, overall comp is very comparable with Calzaghe having better performances consistently.

:patsch I would say his resume is better to be honest.

[Azriel]

His name is Hopkins... Well that didn't help him much in the Taylor fights. Hopkins is not very popular at all and it seems he has to win a vast majority of the rounds for a fight to go his way.

Euh... hein? :dead

[Amsterdam]

:patsch I would say his resume is better to be honest.

Marquez's resume is interestingly empty for his talent level, outside of fighting Pac and Barrera, he's only got a few good fighters here and there and Barrera was very much out of his best days.

Mismanagement.

People don't remember how irritated that boxing world was with JMM prior to his signing with GoldenBoy and sinking the Barrera bout, because he was cleaning out asian C level fighters for the most part.

He fought a Victor Polo here and there, a Manuel Medina, but these aren't marquee names or top class's.

[mike464]

Marquez's resume is interestingly empty for his talent level, outside of fighting Pac and Barrera, he's only got a few good fighters here and there and Barrera was very much out of his best days.Sounds quite similar to someone else...

[Amsterdam]

Sounds quite similar to someone else...

Correct, but the other has been more consistent and has never lost, against better overall competition, that was my point. They have many similiarities in career paths actually, both couldn't land a good fight for a long time.

[Beeston Brawler]

Perhaps so, Mike.......

[JonOli]

You can argue that he shouldn't have been in there in the first place, but to drop him completely after just winning and barely dropping a single round against one of there top ten contenders seems a little unfair.

What happens if Pavlic drops a round to Gary Locket (who isnt even a ring top 10 contender) will he be chucked off the list to.

*nothing against Pavlik*

[mightymidget wrestler]

Hopkins at 5 at this point is like having RJJ at 11 and oscar at 12.

[box3r86]

why is juan manuel marquez there and so high!? number 4. i dont understand.....he beat MAB and has had 2 close contests with pac but that is it. no one else stands out on his record so i dont understand why he is number 4 p4p

[dangerousity]

why is juan manuel marquez there and so high!? number 4. i dont understand.....he beat MAB and has had 2 close contests with pac but that is it. no one else stands out on his record so i dont understand why he is number 4 p4p

You beat a then top 10 p4p in MAB and have 2 very close controversial fights with the no.2 p4p. Surely he cant be too bad. His ranking is perfect at 4 imo. Cant rank him above Calzaghe and the only other fighter that could possibly claim a higher ranking based on current ability and resume is Cotto.

[Asterion]

The Ring's P4P ratings are good. I only have a couple of objections (mainly Hopkins there, so high).

[TenCountStew]

The Ring's P4P ratings are good. I only have a couple of objections (mainly Hopkins there, so high).

While I agree that The Ring's P4P ratings are good, I can't agree with dropping Hatton out of the top 4. No way should Hopkins be sitting at 5. He's definitely in the top 10. But none of his recent performances have convinced me that he should be sitting so high on the list.

[Arriba]

Bernard Hopkins at #5?!?

Wowzers.

[Arriba]

RECENTLY JMM beat MAB, destroyed Rocky Juarez and has two very close disputed decisions with Pac on his recent resume.

I think the problem with some P4P lists is that it's a lifetime achievement award list at times. What has Hopkins done recently to earn himself #5 P4P?

[box3r86]

but thats what he did, he hung in there and got floored 4 times by pac. MAB went 12 rounds with jmm and pac but he aint in the top p4p and he aint officially retired. so im just tryin to say that i feel winners should be in the p4p not losers or hang in there fighters. seems weird u can loose and still be up there when other fighters are wining and rated below

[Arriba]

but thats what he did, he hung in there and got floored 4 times by pac. MAB went 12 rounds with jmm and pac but he aint in the top p4p and he aint officially retired. so im just tryin to say that i feel winners should be in the p4p not losers or hang in there fighters. seems weird u can loose and still be up there when other fighters are wining and rated below

So the P4P list should be full of undefeated fighters?

[box3r86]

RECENTLY JMM beat MAB, destroyed Rocky Juarez and has two very close disputed decisions with Pac on his recent resume.

I think the problem with some P4P lists is that it's a lifetime achievement award list at times. What has Hopkins done recently to earn himself #5 P4P?

fact is tho that he lost to pac and juarez is nothing he seriously shouldnt be mentioned as someone to be rated highly when you beat him.

[box3r86]

So the P4P list should be full of undefeated fighters?

when did i say the word undefeated? i meant like coming off a loss and being rated higher than some1 coming off a big win doesnt make sense alla hopkins and jmm and rafael marquez

[Arriba]

fact is tho that he lost to pac and juarez is nothing he seriously shouldnt be mentioned as someone to be rated highly when you beat him.

He didn't beat Rocky Juarez though..it was a thurough demolition. A masterclass destruction even.

THAT is more impressive than just "winning" like Hatton did against Lazcano, assuming that's what you're arguing for.

[TenCountStew]

If you can hang in there against the True #1 guy (Pacman) and almost win both fights.. Then sure, JMM deserves to be at least #4:hi:

I think you misspelled Mayweather in between the parentheses there buddy.;)

[box3r86]

He didn't beat Rocky Juarez though..it was a thurough demolition. A masterclass destruction even.

THAT is more impressive than just "winning" like Hatton did against Lazcano, assuming that's what you're arguing for.

no, im not mentioning hatton. as he didnt come off a big win, or significant in the whole p4p scheme of things. and juareaz is a gatekeeper. never been a champion and always fallen short at the last hurdle

[toffeejack]

No surprise that Hatton is out of the top 10 he's certainly on the slide and has been since the Tszyu fight. Even if he beats Malignaggi I wouldn't give him much praise unless he totally batters him as Malignaggi is the best of a bad bunch at 140 at the moment.

I think it's a good list apart from Hopkins being too high and Cotto being too low.

[Azriel]

Nope.. I said the TRUE CHAMP..:good

Dude, when Pac will win against JMM by flooring him, when he'll be able to beat MAB who's near retirement, THEN you can say he's the true champ... for now, STFU.

[FourtyOunce]

I think Oscar is making Gayweather look like he's #1.. So he can say he's fighting the #1 guy out there... Cause Gayweather isn't doing squat shit to deserve the #1 spot... We all know that Cotto is fighting the better opponents. Why is Cotto below Hopkins?????


MAYWEAHTER BEAT THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF THE BIG SHOW:thumbsup :yep:rofl:nut:good

[BigBone]

For those who's got a problem with Hopkins' name in the top 10 rankings, here's his resume:

-10 years of MW title reign (okay, that's the past, but not one defeat)
-2 controversial/debated losses to Taylor
-a very convincing win over LHW The Ring champ and P4Per #11-13 Tarver
-Close win over P4P#3 Winky
-Close/debated loss to P4P#3 Calzaghe


P4P is based mostly on resume - talent is not enough, hard evidence is needed vs. top, and a close loss to a p4p-er can mean more than than a clear win over a regular good name (that's why 'losers' like the Marquez bros are on the list). Don't look at the boxrec record or the scorecards: they performed on an A to A+ level vs. top p4p-ers - it doesn't matter whether they got the decision or not... it's still a p4p-er performance.

Some examples: Cotto is a legitimate P4P-er, but he beat ZERO top10 P4P-ers at the time when he fought them. Mosley is his best win, but Shane wasn't even a top15 p4p when the 2 met and some even scored to fight for Mosley.

Or: Pavlik's P4P ranking is based solely on the Taylor win (2) since Miranda is just not an elite name... and Taylor earned that ranking based on two fights that could've gone in Hopkins' favor and maintained it with a controversial lucky draw vs. Wright, a close (controversial by some) win over Spinks...

Or: Mijares has faced ZERO Top10 or 20 P4P-ers, Arce, Kawashima and Munoz were solid wins but neither were THAT good...



Hopkins' is still very very underrated... if you totally sold on preferring the meaningful punches even if the opponent lands a lot more, you can make and argument that Hopkins is undefeated in 15 years! In fact, all the fights he lost were debated at least by some or by a large amount of experts and he still beat Winky and Tarver in between these losses. At 43 that's very impressive, tell me who do you want to put in his place...

Based on the same reason, sorry, Mijares fans (myself included), but Winky deserves a position at least until a year passes without a meaningful fight... his resume stands as this: undisputed LMW champ, shutout win over Tito at MW, controversial draw (close victory according to many) vs. undisputed MW champ, some easy wins and a very close loss to Hopkins at 175... tell me how's Mijares better without even facing the legitimate other top champ of the division...

[Axe]

That part sounds fair, but it's tough to say your rankings are credible having Hopkins that high. I just hope that's not because he's a partner at the magazine.

ROFL!

Love the avatar bud!

[Lance_Uppercut]

I can see that. It was his win off of Tszyu that really catapulted him into it. Can't live off that forever.

[fitzgeraldz]

The ring rankings are ridiculous ... how can Hatton who only lost 1 fight get out of the top 10 p4p.

[fitzgeraldz]

Rafa Marquez lost 2 times in a row yet he's a top 10 p4p guy? ... Hatton lost to the #1 p4p guy that should grant something ... and he beat Lazcano by a virtual shutout ...

I don't get why Hatton gets such disrespect ...

[Daft P]

Where is Cotto???? Man on what basis you put Mijares in there or Pavlik and miss Cotto?...

[ishy]

Cotto's in at 7, too low if you ask me.

[KCD]

Good list except for Hopkins being so God damned high

[dangerousity]

Rafa Marquez lost 2 times in a row yet he's a top 10 p4p guy? ... Hatton lost to the #1 p4p guy that should grant something ... and he beat Lazcano by a virtual shutout ...

I don't get why Hatton gets such disrespect ...

I like Hatton but he hasnt beaten an elite fighter since Kostya Tsyzu. I thought his effort against PBF was top 10 p4p worthy but he really needed an impressive performance afterwards to keep him there. Nearly getting KO'd by Lazcano a couple of times (he was holding on bad) and failing to capitalize on Lazcano when he had him seriously hurt (lack of finishing skills) really didnt look too impressive. Despite the result. He's on the decline, although hes good for boxing so I hope not.

[Betty Swollocks]

Hatton should never have been in the top 10 in the first place.

[J.R.]

Where is Cotto???? Man on what basis you put Mijares in there or Pavlik and miss Cotto?...Cotto is in there at #7 bud above both Mijares and Pavlik....



1)FLOYD MAYWEATHER
2)MANNY PACQUIAO
3)JOE CALZAGHE
4)JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ
5)BERNARD HOPKINS
6)ISRAEL VAZQUEZ
7)MIGUEL COTTO
8)KELLY PAVLIK
9)CRISTIAN MIJARES
10)RAFAEL MARQUEZ

[mturner77]

If you'll feel Hopkins shouldn't be in the top 10 then there is no reason why Calzaghe should have moved up to #3 after winning a SD.

[Farmboxer]

Ring Mag has always hated his guts. Hatton is good at 140lbs, but that is about it. I think he will slowly fade away, but he is not given any credit for what he has accomplished.

[ChrisPontius]

I am absolutely clueless as to why Hopkins is #5.


I mean, sometimes a fighter can be ranked higher than really justified, like Tyson, when they're really popular and/or have an exciting style. But let's face it, Hopkins' fights are boring as fuck! One punch, one headbutt, then hold 17 times a round. He's lost several times recently and his big wins were against guys where he held a substantial size advantage; not the kind of stuff a p4p ranking goes by.

[Hatesrats]

Hatton is still top's at 140.

[Shaolin Monk]

That part sounds fair, but it's tough to say your rankings are credible having Hopkins that high. I just hope that's not because he's a partner at the magazine.Is he? Really?

Well that then DOES explain his spot.

[fatcity]

Don't fret,Hatton fans.Since Golden Boy owns Ring and now has a promo deal in place with Hatton,the next time Ricky fights he will mysteriously break into the Rings top 10.:admin

[sambob]

Ok, here's my 2 cents;

no problems with 1-2-3-4

Why the HELL is Bernard Hopkins still there? Anyways, I know i'll get flames but I just think he should be OUT of that list. For multiple reasons ranging from, he lost 5 times... and to people who aren't even in the top 10.
Cotto should be higher then Hopkins.
Pavlik should be higher then anyone having more then 4 loss

Hopkins lost to Roy Jones Jr, who was P4P number ONE for a LOOONG time. He lost to Jermain Taylor, who was ranked high for a long time. And he was beaten (BARELY) by Joe Calzaghe who is CURRENTLY ranked very high. So he should be lower in ranking because he lost his first professional fight then? Your reasoning is GREAT!

I mean, sometimes a fighter can be ranked higher than really justified, like Tyson, when they're really popular and/or have an exciting style. But let's face it, Hopkins' fights are boring as fuck! One punch, one headbutt, then hold 17 times a round. He's lost several times recently and his big wins were against guys where he held a substantial size advantage; not the kind of stuff a p4p ranking goes by.

Why should popularity have anything to do with Pound for Pound ranings? P4P is specifically supposed to NOT be about stuff like that. Its about SKILL. Hopkins has not lost SEVERAL times recently. He lost super close fights to Jermain Taylor, and he lost a close close close fight to current P4P guy Joe Calzaghe.

He is legit P4P because his last three fights have been TWO weight classes higher than the weight he fought the entire rest of his career at. Even his last loss was against a guy who fought his entire career one weight class above Hopkins.

And why SHOULDN'T Hopkins be ranked high? He's a great fighter. He's been on the list for years. To get dropped he'd have to have a really unimpressive performance (Hopkins always fights his best), or get beaten. But gettng beaten by Calzaghe doesn't really change his standing much considering the way the fight played out, and considering that Calzaghe is #3 on the list.

And people who are saying Hatton's win over Lazcano really was in fact impressive, are idiots. Hatton made even MORE of the same mistakes that got him knocked out by Mayweather, and Lazcano took advantage. He may not have won rounds, but he had no problems hitting Hatton, and he did it easily. He busted up Hatton's face, and hurt him during the fight. Who knows what would have happened i the ref hadn't given Hatton a breather RIGHT when he got seriously hurt.