Why Calzaghe will beat Kessler

[yesihavearm]

After just watching Kessler's fights against Mundine, Beyer and Andrade I fail to see how anyone would think that Kessler is the favouite to beat Calzaghe is their proposed sep/nov bout takes place.

What I saw of Kessler was impressive. He has a very good jab, its snappy and powerful, and he's at home following them up with stiff straight-rights which he seems to get good leverage on. He totally nullified Beyer with the jab and showed good power in order to get the ko, the same can nearly be said of Andrade if it wasnt for his freakish chin.

Kessler was also very impressive against Mundine, who's a very intelligent boxer. I had Mundine up 3-1 after the 4th round. Mundine used his superior speed to his advantage and landed solidly on a few occasions, but its more to be said about Mundine's lack of power than the solidness of Kesslers chin. Kessler then used the jab and big phsyical presence to keep Mundine on the back foot untill he eventually wore him down. All in all a very good showing by the dane against whats easily his best opponent.

However

Kessler has not been in the ring with anyone anywhere near Calzaghe's calibre or experience.

The arguement that lots of Kessler supporters use to discredit Calzaghe is the names of his opponents on his resume. This arguement could be used against Kessler even more so.

Kessler's best opposition:

Mundine - Good opponent, credit where credits due.

Besides that he's fought the human punchbag Andrade. A totally shot Beyer, who was never world class to begin with. Former WBC champ Eric Lucas. The only other possible exception being Craig Cummings who's fought some decent fighters but then again got absolutely destroyed by a world class Steve Collins.

If you compare them with Calzaghe's' resume:

Eubank (Not at his best, but still only 33, 2 years younger than Calz is now)
Robin Reid - Former WBC SMW champ
Ritchie Woodhall - Former WBC SMW champ
Charles Brewer - Former IBF SMW champ
Byron Mitchell - Former WBA SMW champ
Omar Sheika
Mario Veit x2 - Very similar to Kessler, more on him later.
Evans Ashira (With only 1 hand for nearly the whole fight and still won on a wide margin)
Saiko Bika - Difficult awkward opponent

And a shutout over Jeff Lacy who was rated in very similar fashion to the way Kessler is now and praised by Marvin Hagler to be "Top 6 pvp in the world", obviously before the Calzaghe fight.

There's no arguing that Calzaghe's resume isnt great, but it kicks the crap out of Kessler's.

Also has anyone noticed how similar Mario Veit and Mikkel Kessler are in regards to their fighting styles and skills ? Ok everything that Veit does Kessler does far far better, but in regards to the way they come forward and use their size and jab.

Calzaghe TKO 1 Veit
Calzaghe TKO 6 Veit - In Germany

Not drawing any comparisons :)


Head to Head

Kessler definatly has the edge in power, and he has the advantage of youth and strong hands, and has a great jab.


Calzaghe is in a different league with speed, he also has a good job, and posesses superior boxing skills. Calzaghe's movement and footwork are also better than Kessler's. His "swarm" style of attack is perfectly suited to Kessler's style and I just cant see what Kessler's going to do against it. Sure he's got a great jab, but Calzaghe's going to be too fast for him to be effective. Joe will go in on the inside and throw punches in quick combinations which will force Kessler to defend as his most effecitve weapon which is his jab will be neutralised. I think if Kessler's going to win it's going to have to be a knockout or Calzaghe's going to have to break both his hands (We've seen he's as effective with just the one hand), but as we know from experience Calzaghe has a great chin, where as Kessler's is relatively untested.

Calzaghe UD 12 Kessler

117 - 111
116 - 112
116 - 112

This isnt to say Kessler isnt a good fighter because I definatly think he's the number 2 SMW in the division and would beat Taylor/Pavlik/Miranda and the severely overhyped Dawson. I just think this is a fight of styles and is probably one step to many for Mikkel.

Definatly good things to come from Kessler in the future.

As for Calzaghe...winner of Bhop/Wright in Feb ?

Lets hope so.

[Axe]

Well he's got it down right to the judges' scorecards, no point in having the fight then if we already know the outcome.

[PrideOfWales]

I think this is an excellent post - really spot on. I see the fight going exactly the same way and could even see a late TKO for Calzaghe if things go well in terms of injuries. Kessler can only fight one way whereas Calzaghe is very dynamic in being able to box well and brawl. Joe's fitness and energy levels will also play a part - he'll be busy all night long.

If I'm correct, people will be saying that Kessler was overhyped after the fight which will, once again, discredit Calzaghe. But by then, he'll be ducking Bute.

yesihavearm, much credit to you and that amazing girl in your avatar, who the fuck is she? Great norks.

[psychopath]

Is this Calzaghe's website? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm getting tired of all these damn Calzaghe threads. Boxing is not all about JC ONLY folks, lighten up. :patsch

[jahobe]

After just watching Kessler's fights against Mundine, Beyer and Andrade I fail to see how anyone would think that Kessler is the favouite to beat Calzaghe is their proposed sep/nov bout takes place.

What I saw of Kessler was impressive. He has a very good jab, its snappy and powerful, and he's at home following them up with stiff straight-rights which he seems to get good leverage on. He totally nullified Beyer with the jab and showed good power in order to get the ko, the same can nearly be said of Andrade if it wasnt for his freakish chin.

Kessler was also very impressive against Mundine, who's a very intelligent boxer. I had Mundine up 3-1 after the 4th round. Mundine used his superior speed to his advantage and landed solidly on a few occasions, but its more to be said about Mundine's lack of power than the solidness of Kesslers chin. Kessler then used the jab and big phsyical presence to keep Mundine on the back foot untill he eventually wore him down. All in all a very good showing by the dane against whats easily his best opponent.

However

Kessler has not been in the ring with anyone anywhere near Calzaghe's calibre or experience.

The arguement that lots of Kessler supporters use to discredit Calzaghe is the names of his opponents on his resume. This arguement could be used against Kessler even more so.

Kessler's best opposition:

Mundine - Good opponent, credit where credits due.

Besides that he's fought the human punchbag Andrade. A totally shot Beyer, who was never world class to begin with. Former WBC champ Eric Lucas. The only other possible exception being Craig Cummings who's fought some decent fighters but then again got absolutely destroyed by a world class Steve Collins.

If you compare them with Calzaghe's' resume:

Eubank (Not at his best, but still only 33, 2 years younger than Calz is now)
Robin Reid - Former WBC SMW champ
Ritchie Woodhall - Former WBC SMW champ
Charles Brewer - Former IBF SMW champ
Byron Mitchell - Former WBA SMW champ
Omar Sheika
Mario Veit x2 - Very similar to Kessler, more on him later.
Evans Ashira (With only 1 hand for nearly the whole fight and still won on a wide margin)
Saiko Bika - Difficult awkward opponent

And a shutout over Jeff Lacy who was rated in very similar fashion to the way Kessler is now and praised by Marvin Hagler to be "Top 6 pvp in the world", obviously before the Calzaghe fight.

There's no arguing that Calzaghe's resume isnt great, but it kicks the crap out of Kessler's.

Also has anyone noticed how similar Mario Veit and Mikkel Kessler are in regards to their fighting styles and skills ? Ok everything that Veit does Kessler does far far better, but in regards to the way they come forward and use their size and jab.

Calzaghe TKO 1 Veit
Calzaghe TKO 6 Veit - In Germany

Not drawing any comparisons :)


Head to Head

Kessler definatly has the edge in power, and he has the advantage of youth and strong hands, and has a great jab.


Calzaghe is in a different league with speed, he also has a good job, and posesses superior boxing skills. Calzaghe's movement and footwork are also better than Kessler's. His "swarm" style of attack is perfectly suited to Kessler's style and I just cant see what Kessler's going to do against it. Sure he's got a great jab, but Calzaghe's going to be too fast for him to be effective. Joe will go in on the inside and throw punches in quick combinations which will force Kessler to defend as his most effecitve weapon which is his jab will be neutralised. I think if Kessler's going to win it's going to have to be a knockout or Calzaghe's going to have to break both his hands (We've seen he's as effective with just the one hand), but as we know from experience Calzaghe has a great chin, where as Kessler's is relatively untested.

Calzaghe UD 12 Kessler

117 - 111
116 - 112
116 - 112

This isnt to say Kessler isnt a good fighter because I definatly think he's the number 2 SMW in the division and would beat Taylor/Pavlik/Miranda and the severely overhyped Dawson. I just think this is a fight of styles and is probably one step to many for Mikkel.

Definatly good things to come from Kessler in the future.

As for Calzaghe...winner of Bhop/Wright in Feb ?

Lets hope so.



Although you make some good points, i totally disagree. Calzaghe's list of opponents may be a little better but it means nothing. why? because Kessler is at the stage of his career were he is looking to add big names to his list, he is ready for top opponents, he is in his prime. And you must have some sort of doubt considering calzaghe's last 2 performances against bika and manfredo, he was nothing close to what he was while destroying the one dimensional lacy.

Kessler's last 2 opponents were good challenges for him, they were real fights, although beyer was a bit past it, the fight against andrande was hard and perfect for him to lead up to this, i have seen many fights of both fighters over the last year and although calzaghe's ring craft and movement may be more technical than kessler, kessler him self is a real boxer, he has real skill and is smart, I agree with alot of what you said but there is one thing that i think you are way off with and that is how you think kessler will have no answer for calzaghe's "swarm" style, you say joe will get on the inside and nuetrilize kessler's jab but you also point out kessler's superior power, kessler is smart enough and skilled enough to catch joe if he is going to "swarm" all night and that is were he will get knocked out, joe handled lacy's so called power but kessler is in a different league compared to lacy.

I think it will be a great fight but let's hope it happens first.
but i think joe will meet his match and kessler will be the one who can enforce his style on the fight and win.


hope it happens but if not i want joe to fight mundine

[hitman_hatton1]

any news on this fight.

i've heard nothing since the fight was accepted on calzaghe's side.

seems like the danes got cold feet. :yep

[Arthur]

I'll give the OP credit, he posted a very intelligent argument for his pick to win the fight. Its nice to read something other than "Kessler sucks" or "Calzaghe is 10x better"
However i stick with my prediction: Kessler wins. I've watched Calzaghe for most of the last ten years...he is a very very good fighter. But i think that he leaves him self open to a good jab. Kessler's jab is going to make the difference in the fight. Remember Calzaghe struggled against Robin Reid. IF you've only seen his fights with Lacy, Bika, and Manfredo you might think JC is better than he really is.

[deram]

Damn... I had hoped we had an objective poster that could tell us how Calzaghe would win. That would be interesting to read. And the same goes of course for the objective posted that could tell us how Kessler would win.

Most of us clearly have a favorite of the two. Personally I think it is a 50-50 fight but I will cheer for Kessler.

Anyway - when you rip Kessler's opponents apart by saying:
Mundine was ok, but besides that he's fought the human punchbag Andrade. A totally shot Beyer, who was never world class to begin with and nothing else"

Then you list Calzaghe's ;ist as :
"Omar Sheika
Mario Veit x2
Evans Ashira (With only 1 hand for nearly the whole fight and still won on a wide margin)
Saiko Bika - Difficult awkward opponent
plus this and this former SMW WBA champ etc."

So Kessler's opponents you are very critical of while Calzaghe's you glorify.

Someone could easily have done the opposite:
"Everyone except Eubank were either old, small or never was anything to begin with, ,
while Kessler's opponents are:
Thobela Several time world champ
Cesar Green - Former World Champ
Anthony Mundine - World Champ
Eric Lucas - former world champ
and so on.."

Now - that would be pretty boring as it would be just as biased as the way you listed it.

It would be nice if someone could paint an objective picture of this fight. I ll go so far as to say the one I know that comes closest is Sean. And I am saying that well knowing that he is british and a fan of Calzaghe. At leaast he genuinely tries to be objective.

[magnificentdave]

You want an objective picture of the fight? Calzaghe stays busy on the inside never giving Kessler the room to throw his perfect jab and right hand, busting him up all night. What else is there to say? Kessler will land his money shots about once every two rounds. You can dress it up in five dollar words, but it comes to the same conclusion.

[pecks]

Kessler will win.
He doesn't really give you an inch when he fights, and imo, Calzaghe is a bit on the slide (but still good enough to beat nearly all the guys around 168, and 175)

I think Kessler wins a decision here, as his all round game will be enough to keep Calzaghe at bay in order for him to win a UD.

I've been off for a while. Has this fight been signed yet, or are the two promoters still engaged in a pissing contest?

[yesihavearm]

Damn... I had hoped we had an objective poster that could tell us how Calzaghe would win. That would be interesting to read. And the same goes of course for the objective posted that could tell us how Kessler would win.

Most of us clearly have a favorite of the two. Personally I think it is a 50-50 fight but I will cheer for Kessler.

Anyway - when you rip Kessler's opponents apart by saying:
Mundine was ok, but besides that he's fought the human punchbag Andrade. A totally shot Beyer, who was never world class to begin with and nothing else"

Then you list Calzaghe's ;ist as :
"Omar Sheika
Mario Veit x2
Evans Ashira (With only 1 hand for nearly the whole fight and still won on a wide margin)
Saiko Bika - Difficult awkward opponent
plus this and this former SMW WBA champ etc."

So Kessler's opponents you are very critical of while Calzaghe's you glorify.

Someone could easily have done the opposite:
"Everyone except Eubank were either old, small or never was anything to begin with, ,
while Kessler's opponents are:
Thobela Several time world champ
Cesar Green - Former World Champ
Anthony Mundine - World Champ
Eric Lucas - former world champ
and so on.."

Now - that would be pretty boring as it would be just as biased as the way you listed it.

It would be nice if someone could paint an objective picture of this fight. I ll go so far as to say the one I know that comes closest is Sean. And I am saying that well knowing that he is british and a fan of Calzaghe. At leaast he genuinely tries to be objective.

Not biased at all, I've given Kessler credit where he's due it. Im not even a fan of Calzaghe, I respect his boxing skill but I hate the way his career path has gone and would much rathered him to have fought the big names years ago when they and Joe himself were most likely in their primes Rjj - Benn - Bhop etc....

It's not a case of being objective, I genuinely see little in Kessler that will give Calzaghe trouble and i've stated why. Dont hype Kessler up to be more than what he is, its so similar to what happened pre-Lacy its uncanny. Oh and dont give me that bullcrap about the resume's, yes anyone could have twisted them to sound better but look at the names and look at the fights, if you've knowledge of them which im sure you have, then you'd know who's was better.

Kessler's a good fighter, agreed. But Calzaghe's a great one. Difference.

[KO Boxing]

Calzaghe's' resume:

Eubank (Not at his best, but still only 33, 2 years younger than Calz is now)
Robin Reid - Former WBC SMW champ
Ritchie Woodhall - Former WBC SMW champ
Charles Brewer - Former IBF SMW champ
Byron Mitchell - Former WBA SMW champ
Omar Sheika
Mario Veit x2 - Very similar to Kessler, more on him later.
Evans Ashira (With only 1 hand for nearly the whole fight and still won on a wide margin)
Saiko Bika - Difficult awkward opponent

And a shutout over Jeff Lacy
Ummm, WHO?

* Bika, Ashira and Veit are laughable jokes. Sorry.

* Brewer and Sheika are JOURNEYMEN at best.

* Richie Woodhall LOST to Marcus Beyer (who YOU yourself said had NO prime to begin with, yet you list someone he beat as being a better opponent for Calzaghe? Umm, WHAT? Beyer had like 15 fights at the time, lol. And this was BEFORE Richie fought Calzaghe. Hmmm...).

* Byron Mitchell was coming off a loss to a retiring 35 year-old Sven Ottke, was perhaps considered the worst of all the champions as 168 at the time he lost to SVEN OTTKE (which was BEFORE Calzaghe), and should have TWO losses to Manny Siaca.

* Robin Reid was only ever considered decent in Britian (perhaps Europe as well), and many of the Britians/Europeans believe he won the fight against Calzaghe (he's done diddly squat since, though).

* That leaves Calzaghe's 2 best opponents as Eubank and Lacy. Eubank was OVER 10 years ago, when Eubank was clearly shot and out of his prime. And Lacy was an inexpierenced, green one-dimensional fighter. Oh, Oh, but everyone rated him as no. 1 before the fight!!! Ummm, SO! What, just because a fighter was overrated before a fight and was exposed means we have to rate him as highly as he was BEFORE he was exposed? I don't really follow. There has been MANY many times in history where a young undefeated fighter was considered MUCH better than he was before he was exposed... And yet the person who exposed them does not get the same credit that Calzghe does for exposing Lacy. Why is that?

Apart from the resume discussion, however, not a bad post. Kessler resume does not really resemble that of a pound for pounder either, although at this stage I think the 168 rankings go:

Champion: Vacant
1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Mundine
4. Bute
5. Lacy
6. Berrio (based on IBF title)
(These are obviously my person opinion)

Meaning as the no. 1, and champ for TEN (damn TEN) years, Calzaghe's resume SHOULD be 100x bettter than Kessler's... but it isn't. Kessler has been champ for like 2 years, and already is catching up (I'd tip Mundine over Lacy, their respective biggest wins in the past few years). But the thing with Kessler, he is NOT a pound for pounder yet. He has the potential, but needs a win over someone like Calzaghe to get him there. Adding Calzaghe to Mundine, Andrade and Beyer (and being the undisputed champ) would see Kessler perhaps break into the the lower echelon top 10 (with nuthuggers going wild and putting him in top 5).

After all that though, I agree with Deram that this fight is a pick-em. Wouldn't be surprised who won either way, but I am leaning towrads the youth, size, jab, strength and all round fundamental technique of Kessler (his strenghts) to over power Calzaghe (who I feel might be starting to get a little on in age). But with that said, ATM I have Calzaghe no. 1 so realistically he should be favoured to win (in my eyes, anyway).

Sorry for starting to waffle on... :bbb :hi:

[jahobe]

Not biased at all, I've given Kessler credit where he's due it. Im not even a fan of Calzaghe, I respect his boxing skill but I hate the way his career path has gone and would much rathered him to have fought the big names years ago when they and Joe himself were most likely in their primes Rjj - Benn - Bhop etc....

It's not a case of being objective, I genuinely see little in Kessler that will give Calzaghe trouble and i've stated why. Dont hype Kessler up to be more than what he is, its so similar to what happened pre-Lacy its uncanny. Oh and dont give me that bullcrap about the resume's, yes anyone could have twisted them to sound better but look at the names and look at the fights, if you've knowledge of them which im sure you have, then you'd know who's was better.

Kessler's a good fighter, agreed. But Calzaghe's a great one. Difference.


I think your post was objective but you lean towards calzaghe and i think my post was objective but i lean towards kessler and we both stated why, you can be objective but still have an opinion of who you think will win and thats it. like i said before i think calzaghe has fought a bit more quality so agree with you there, but these are 2 fighters at different stages of there career, you say kessler is a good fighter.. he is more than good, you say calzaghe is a great fighter and most would agree but this will be the time when kessler steps to that level, kessler is about to become a great fighter and calzaghe has been a great fighter i think that will be the difference.

i'm not sure how you can see kessler's fights and think that he can't trouble Calzaghe, that is amazing to me, i have seen joe fight and i'm sure he can trouble kessler just like i am sure kessler will trouble joe, joe will not be effective with his "swarms" against kessler because i don't believe he can seriously hurt him, i like both fighters and i don't think kessler is over hyped at all.

i was even talking to my friends dad who is a big calzaghe fan and he went so far as to say " I hope Joe lets him stick around for a few rounds so we can see a bit of a fight, he is just going to have fun with him" and he was dead serious when he was saying that. i couldn't believe it, joe is not going to have fun with kessler, will be the best fighter joe has faced.

but if the fight doesn't happen all this hypothetical posting for nothing ha

[Scar]

Calzaghe wins by UD.

[stiflers mum]

calzaghe wide UD. not as close as people expect.

[MagnificentMatt]

Kessler by TKO or KO in round 8-10,Kesler will retire Calzaghe :good

Kessler is a good fighter and all that..But seriosuly, Calzaghes style can pretty much give anyone fits, and i see him beating Kessler to the punch all night, for a decent decision, not a wide one, but a clear one.

[Laydown]

Ummm, WHO?

* Bika, Ashira and Veit are laughable jokes. Sorry.

* Brewer and Sheika are JOURNEYMEN at best.

* Richie Woodhall LOST to Marcus Beyer (who YOU yourself said had NO prime to begin with, yet you list someone he beat as being a better opponent for Calzaghe? Umm, WHAT? Beyer had like 15 fights at the time, lol. And this was BEFORE Richie fought Calzaghe. Hmmm...).

* Byron Mitchell was coming off a loss to a retiring 35 year-old Sven Ottke, was perhaps considered the worst of all the champions as 168 at the time he lost to SVEN OTTKE (which was BEFORE Calzaghe), and should have TWO losses to Manny Siaca.

* Robin Reid was only ever considered decent in Britian (perhaps Europe as well), and many of the Britians/Europeans believe he won the fight against Calzaghe (he's done diddly squat since, though).

* That leaves Calzaghe's 2 best opponents as Eubank and Lacy. Eubank was OVER 10 years ago, when Eubank was clearly shot and out of his prime. And Lacy was an inexpierenced, green one-dimensional fighter. Oh, Oh, but everyone rated him as no. 1 before the fight!!! Ummm, SO! What, just because a fighter was overrated before a fight and was exposed means we have to rate him as highly as he was BEFORE he was exposed? I don't really follow. There has been MANY many times in history where a young undefeated fighter was considered MUCH better than he was before he was exposed... And yet the person who exposed them does not get the same credit that Calzghe does for exposing Lacy. Why is that?

Apart from the resume discussion, however, not a bad post. Kessler resume does not really resemble that of a pound for pounder either, although at this stage I think the 168 rankings go:

Champion: Vacant
1. Calzaghe
2. Kessler
3. Mundine
4. Bute
5. Lacy
6. Berrio (based on IBF title)
(These are obviously my person opinion)

Meaning as the no. 1, and champ for TEN (damn TEN) years, Calzaghe's resume SHOULD be 100x bettter than Kessler's... but it isn't. Kessler has been champ for like 2 years, and already is catching up (I'd tip Mundine over Lacy, their respective biggest wins in the past few years). But the thing with Kessler, he is NOT a pound for pounder yet. He has the potential, but needs a win over someone like Calzaghe to get him there. Adding Calzaghe to Mundine, Andrade and Beyer (and being the undisputed champ) would see Kessler perhaps break into the the lower echelon top 10 (with nuthuggers going wild and putting him in top 5).

After all that though, I agree with Deram that this fight is a pick-em. Wouldn't be surprised who won either way, but I am leaning towrads the youth, size, jab, strength and all round fundamental technique of Kessler (his strenghts) to over power Calzaghe (who I feel might be starting to get a little on in age). But with that said, ATM I have Calzaghe no. 1 so realistically he should be favoured to win (in my eyes, anyway).

Sorry for starting to waffle on... :bbb :hi:

:good very good answer

[pecks]

Kessler is a good fighter and all that..But seriosuly, Calzaghes style can pretty much give anyone fits, and i see him beating Kessler to the punch all night, for a decent decision, not a wide one, but a clear one.True, but Calzaghe has also showed that he can be troubled by opponents of much lesser calibre than Kessler. One thing we know about Kessler is that he will bring his A game to the fight. He will be at his best. I'm not so sure thats the case with Calzaghe. If you look at his resume, it's filled with many inconsistant performances, albeit all wins.

At the end of the day, this thread could clock 4000 pages and we'd still be no closer to finding out who'd win. They need to put pen to paper, and make this fight happen. :deal

[MagnificentMatt]

True, but Calzaghe has also showed that he can be troubled by opponents of much lesser calibre than Kessler. One thing we know about Kessler is that he will bring his A game to the fight. He will be at his best. I'm not so sure thats the case with Calzaghe. If you look at his resume, it's filled with many inconsistant performances, albeit all wins.

At the end of the day, this thread could clock 4000 pages and we'd still be no closer to finding out who'd win. They need to put pen to paper, and make this fight happen. :deal

Yeah really...If Calzaghe is ready, mentally, and physically (he doesnt overlook Kessler) i think he can have it.

[Faetter_BR]

any news on this fight.

i've heard nothing since the fight was accepted on calzaghe's side.

seems like the danes got cold feet. :yep

I don't know whoes feet are cold...

Palle send a 5,5M $ offer to ****** last sunday and hasn't heard anything from ****** since :yep

[stiflers mum]

I don't know whoes feet are cold...

Palle send a 5,5M $ offer to ****** last sunday and hasn't heard anything from ****** since :yep
****** accepted palles 5 mill offer didnt he?

[Laydown]

I don't know whoes feet are cold...

Palle send a 5,5M $ offer to ****** last sunday and hasn't heard anything from ****** since :yep

Who tells ****** that he needs to respond Palle now?

[Faetter_BR]

Could please try and not resort to opponent-bashing... it's very unfruitfull :)

As for who wins...

My money are on Kessler - especially if the fight is in Denmark.

I exspect the fight to be close, but I think Kessler's jab, youth and desire is going to win him the fight. Calzaghe is a great fighter no doubt, but I think it's his time to loose this time around. Another big factor is Calzaghe's hands/power - his last fight indicates that his hands can't handle his power anymore. He has gone the distance in 4 out of 6 - and in most cases versus people he'd normally stop. If he breaks his hand(s) and isn't able to hurt Kessler, then it's going to be a long night for Calzaghe

If the fight is in England - which might very well be - then I'll have Calzaghe a slight favouite - based on the Manfredo fight. Not the fact that it was stopped early, but how the spectators went will at his flurries, even though they hit very little - I mean the flurry that "stopped" manfredo had 2-3 hits in it. I don't fear a premature stoppage, but the judges might be swaid to judge in favour of the one whoes hits are magnified by the crowd chearing - even if they don't actually connect :)

For the ones thinking Kessler is one-dimensional - jab-jab-cross. Well take my word for it - he can do a lot more - just didn't have to do so - yet. In the 12th round versus Andrade he shows us a little about his inside abilities, which I've seen several times in sparring. It's not just a question on Calzaghe getting past Kessler's jab to get on the inside - Kessler will do fine in there too.

The main question here is: How good is Kessler really?

We haven't seen his limitations yet - he has lost about two rounds in his whole career against decent opponents. We know pretty much how good Calzaghe is - although the jury is out on the state of his hands - and he is scary good - no doubt. He is much better then any opponent Kessler has ever faced - no doubt. But the question is - is Kessler also better than anything Calzaghe has ever faced?

I think he is - but only the fight will tell.

Kessler - 117-111 (Denmark) - Kessler SD 115-113, 115-113 & 113-115 (England)

But no mater who wins - I hope it will be close enough to ******t a rematch :D

[Faetter_BR]

****** accepted palles 5 mill offer didnt he?

yep - with a few extra demands it appears. Palle responded with a higher offer.

Palle's first offer wasn't a ready to sign contract - he 5,5M offer is - so this time ****** has to accept for real :)

But it's kinda funny how the standard are different when it comes to offers.

When ****** went back on his 5M offer - people where saying that Palle/Kessler was ducking Calzaghe for not taking the 3M offer, even though ****** had offered 5M to get Palle to the table. Then when ****** "accepted" Palle's offer Palle/Kessler was again ducking Calzaghe for not answering right away - Now Palle has made a contract-offer for 5,5M $ - a career high payday for Calzaghe - and ****** is yet to answer (got the offer last sunday) - but it's still Palle/Kessler that is ducking Calzaghe... :think

[IrnBruMan]

Calzaghe will do to Kessler what Mundine did to Green

Seriously - Kessler is a good fighter, but at times he looks plodding and flatfooted, and Calzaghe will show him up with his speed.

UD to Calzaghe.

[Tobang07]

Some good predictions so far, but there's two arguments that keeps being mentioned, which I think doesnt belong in a fightprediction.

1: The resumes. We have to look at there current form and talent and not who they fought in the past. I know it can give an indication, but its hardly worth anything at this moment.
First of, Kessler has been a champ for 2 years and is only beginning to collect some decent heads.
Second, we all know that context and motivations and alot other stuff is a big factor in an actual fight. It doesnt make sense to predict this fight based on who these guys has fought in the past. At best one could use they last 2-3 fights as an indicator, but in that regard Calzaghe doesnt score high, neither does Kessler.

2: Another argument which is pure nonsens, is comparing Kessler to Lacy. Not skillwise, but hypewise. It doesnt make sense to say, "calzaghe will win, because Lacy turned out to be a hype job, and now alot of people thinks Kessler is going to win, so hes a hypejob to".

My personal opinion on the fight is, its going to be very close. Calzaghe does have the tools to counter Kesslers style, but so does Kessler the other way around. You need a good jab to counter a southpaw flurry. So it comes down to who is the best at what they do(surprise:). They both have the tools.

I dont agree that Kessler is one-dimensional. Hes a very clever boxer, and hes been trained to keep cool and follow his plan. Hes also very good at timing and he quickly knows how to beat his opponent. That means he doesnt flurry, he doesnt throw to many useless punches, when he throws he hits, and that can be seen as one-dimensional. If one watch the Andrade fight closely, one could see that he can do alot of other stuff, than his famous jab-jab-right. He might not do it at the same rate as Calzaghe, but he does what it takes to win. And if he knows he can win a fight jab-jab-right, then thats what he does. Sticks to the plan, sticks to his best weapon, but if he needs to he can do alot more. Maybe he cant do it as good as his prime weapon, and that is maybe the reason he will loose, but hes not one-dimensional.

And please, yes Kessler moves back alot to avoid getting hit, but please dont say he "stumbles back". Its just BS.

[Faetter_BR]

Look, ultimately there are three reasons Kessler will not win this fight

A: Adaptability.

Kessler hasn't shown the ability (nor needed to show it) to adapt in the ring and change up his gameplan. He doesn't have a multi-faceted approach to the way he boxes and as of yet, he hasn't really come up against someone who can be considered a proven ring general.

Calzaghe can fight on the inside, from the outside and is equally comfortable at either distance. His handspeed is unquestionably faster than Kessler and he's shown the ability to nullify some very good jabs (Reid, Woodhall, Veit) in the past with his high lead left hand.

He will make Kessler fight a game that Kessler hasn't had to fight in the ring before - as Kessler has yet to have to adapt under pressure against anyone with the ability to control a fight like Calzaghe - he's going to be asked to do a lot in one night against a fighter who would've unquestionably murdered anyone Kessler has faced previously

It is correct that Kessler haven't shown that much adaptibility in his fights - as he hadn't had to do so. In the Andrade fight we saw some - Andrade was able to push Kessler back and put him under constant pressure. Before the Andrade-fight people where saying that it was the way to beat Kessler - as he always moves strait back and has no bodymovement.

Versus Andrade Kessler showed that he has exellent footwork, when he has to - moving sideways circling and crossing Andrade just about every time.

From what I've seen in sparring Kessler can adapt just fine - hopefully we'll get to see that soon

As for the jab-bite - Reid is the one to give Calzaghe the most trouble - and that was back when Calzaghe had hands to deliever his power - everything Reid does Kessler does better, faster and more precise. Veit is big, slow, timid and has a bad chin - Kessler is none of those. Oh and Veit managed to rock Calzaghe with a jab - imagine what Kessler will do.


B: Style

Anyone who has watched Kessler in more than one fight will notice something very very quickly - consistency. Kessler is a boxer who relies on consistency to help him dominate opponents.

He uses his jab to good effect to back off the right handed opponents he's faced, although he was left open a few times against Beyer, Beyer was so shot and unworthy of the fight that he couldn't capitalise.

When you take away the consistent scoring of the jab from Kessler - he's left with a telegraphed right hand that even Beyer saw coming most of the time in their fight.

Kessler doesn't work the body and has shown that he tires down the stretch against both Mundine and Andrade.. he won't be able to keep up with Calzaghe over 12 rounds at the pace Calzaghe fights so he will need to somehow work to the body

When he hasn't done this in other actual fights (that I can see) consistently, he's going to make mistakes if he does it against Calzaghe - Calzaghe will punish those mistakes

Kessler does use bodyshots - he has stopped several opponents with livershots - he didn't versus Andrade because Andrade countered well and Kessler had other options.

as for Kessler getting tired - you got to be kidding! - Kessler had back-problems coming into the Mundine-fight and had done no roadwork for 6 weeks coming into that fight and only 30 rounds of light sparring. He was away from home fighting in Australia in 40 degrease - pretty hot for a Dane. So yes in that fight he showed some lack of fitness - but was still able to beat the very fast Mundine with a good margine.

As for the Andrade-fight - in round 12 he goes onto an all out attack because according to himself he had plenty of energy left. He kept a high pace thorugh the whole fight only slowing a bit down in round 9. Calzaghe was more tired against Bika for instanse than Kessler was at the end of the Andrade-fight.

But yes in a fight versus Calzaghe he'll be making mistakes and get punished for them - but so will Calzaghe.

one final note on Kessler's workrate/fitness - look at his record - he has lost two rounds his whole career - that's also a good indication of a consistant and high workrate


C: Experience.

Like Calzaghe or not - he's been in with some of the better super middleweights - many of the guys he's faced would kick anyone of Kesslers opponents into next year without too much effort

Kessler has yet to beat a proven fighter that didn't already have multiple losses

Mundine - two losses before Kessler
Siaca - four losses before Kessler
Lucas - six losses before Kessler
Beyer - two losses before Kessler

Calzaghe on the other hand has had over twenty championship fights - retaining a high KO percentage for his weight and continuing to show workrate, handspeed and the ability to hit and not be hit that belies his age.

Calzaghe knows how to come back from tough spots and he certainly won't be timid in the ring, he will come at Kessler from several angles and unless Kessler has a game I've yet to see (and one he's yet to show in any professional bout) - then the fight will head down these lines.


Calzaghe will be cautious at first, using a high left hand and circling away from Kessler's right hand - he'll look to loop left hooks around Kessler's lead jab hand and also to back Kessler up.

Once he starts finding his distance, he's actually going to circle towards Kessler's right hand and trust his instinct to see it coming, when it comes - he's going to throw flurries and push Kessler back - unlike other boxers who have pushed Kessler back, Calzaghe won't let him just stumble backwards without being punished.

Kessler will put in a brave performance, you'll see him attempt to throw more lead right hands than in any other fight but he just doesn't have the handspeed nor unorthodox position (ala Hopkins) that he throws them from... Calzaghe may be tagged a few times but his chin is certified.

The workrate will really drag Kessler down - I think he's going to be drawing big ones in around the sixth round... he's going to lose his form a wee bit and his guard defense will suffer.
.

As for the "who beat the best" bla bla - it's kinda comical the way you argue.

You list Kessler's opponents saying how many times they lost - and ignores Andrade of course.

Lets do the same to Calzaghe's

Eubanks - 2 losses - and two more after
Reid - 1 loss (to Malinga - who had 10 losses at the time)
Thornberry - 2 losses - both to no-hopers - both on KO - Calzaghe went the distanse. on a sidenote Mundine stopped him too.
Woodhall - 2 losses - one two no-talent Beyer :yep
Veit - no loses - mostly because he never faced anyone with even a decent record.
Brewer - 8! losses
Mitchel - 2 losses
Lacy - 0 losses - and a very good win!

But yes Calzaghe is ahead on exspirience - no doubt. The downside however is that all these fights seems to have given Calzaghe problems with his hands - it seems they are not able to deliever his power anymore - of his last 6 fights he has only stopped one opponent. (Manfredo was stopped by Calzaghe's power, but by Manfredo's inactivity and the referee - Manfredo was never hurt). In his early carrer he stopped most opponents - also in the amateurs - very impressive.

It will be a classic youth versus exspirience - like when Calzaghe faced Eubanks - or Taylor-Hopkins

As stated above I don't think Kessler will have any fitness problems with Calzaghe.

oh - and Kessler doesn't stumble backwoods - when he moves back he does it with his backfoot down ready to counter and he does that very well.


Calzaghe will take advantage and I either see a wide (117-111) decision or a late TKO based on cuts.
.

on cuts??? - why is that? - Calzaghe hasn't got a record of giving people cuts and Kessler has no history of getting any.


For Kessler to win? He's going to have to find that right hand several times, very early to make Joe a little more apprehensive about coming in - his best chance, ironically, is to keep Joe on the outside - where Joe's handspeed is going to be even tougher for Kessler to keep up with cause he won't be able to just smother it.

It's a tough ask for a guy who hasn't shown adaptability in the ring and it's a very tough ask for an orthodox jabbing right hander to face a left hander with a high guard, faster hands and a bigger arsenal of punches.

We agree Kessler is to win this from the outside - we disagree on Calzaghe fantastic abilities versus a good jab. And as Kessler has never faced anyone as skilled as Calaghe - Calzaghe has never faced a jab as good as Kesslers!

oh and for the record - Kessler has had lots of training versus southpaws - don't worry :)

[Tobang07]

It's not worth arguing with people who don't have true boxing knowledge.

Oh please blocky, still going down that road. It's getting boring.

If its not worth arguing then dont. Simple as that. Yet your one of the atg most active in the Kess-Calz debate. Apparently alot of other people here doesnt mind arguing, knowledge or not.

[Faetter_BR]

It won't be close - tell me I'm lacking objectivity but seriously, it's not even going to be a close fight - Kessler's major weapon won't exist for him against Calzaghe and his propensity to move straight backwards (yes, stumble backwards) will mean he's constantly being pummelled by the flurrying Calzaghe.

It's not worth arguing with people who don't have true boxing knowledge.

Amasing how Andrade didn't manage to land one good shot at Kessler - as Kessler was stumbling backwoods the whole fight - and Andrade's main weapon is exactly that: to get to the opponent while pushing him back...

[Decebal]

Calzaghe UD 12 Kessler

117 - 111
116 - 112
116 - 112



Are you sure it wasn't the third judge calling 117-111?:lol:

[hulter]

When the game goes down just as I've been stating time and time again for what, the past four months? Perhaps then you'll listen to me the next time I tell you how something is going to happen.
LOL


hulter

[jahobe]

It won't be close - tell me I'm lacking objectivity but seriously, it's not even going to be a close fight - Kessler's major weapon won't exist for him against Calzaghe and his propensity to move straight backwards (yes, stumble backwards) will mean he's constantly being pummelled by the flurrying Calzaghe.

It's not worth arguing with people who don't have true boxing knowledge.


haha so the flurrying calzaghe will pummell him sending him backwards.. stumbling, i tell you mate i'm sick of arguing about this to but i had to reply to this shit, your knowledge of boxing must be unique if you believe kessler has just one major weapon and you also seem to think that joe will be able to bully kessler with his flurrying slap attack, but when joe is the one who is being bullied by kessler he won't have the opportunity to fight his fight.

but it's all just talk until it actually happens i guess, but for you to say it won't even be close, i won't say your lacking objectivity because you are entitled to your own opinion but you are lacking that true boxing knowledge you speak of if you think joe will have it so easy.

let me guess, you studied at the school of hard slaps?

[Faetter_BR]

Look, bringing up Andrade as someone who "pressured Kessler" is apparent ignorance

When you have a land percentage of 10% in a fight and you don't adjust your throwing or at least throw less to try and hit more - it's obvious you're not really pressuring your opponent

Andrade gift-wrapped countering opportunities all night to Kessler.. you can bet your arse that Calzaghe would've done more with those.

But hey, bring the fight on - I'm really sick of arguing about it with guys who don't know boxing and that in effect, is what I've been doing.

When the game goes down just as I've been stating time and time again for what, the past four months? Perhaps then you'll listen to me the next time I tell you how something is going to happen.

Andrade was infront of Kessler for 12 rounds moving forward pressing Kessler back - for 12 rounds none stop. He didn't have much succes with it, but it sure was pressure.

Several here predicted that Andrade's pressure-style would give Kessler problems - because Kessler moves strait back, has no upperbody movement and will break under pressure. Kessler proved all those points wrong - due what you still claim he can't do - adapt. Andrade might not be a future worldchampion, but he had a style that forced Kessler to adapt - he could just keep Andrade away with the jab-jab-cross combination, because Andrade's chin made him able to move strait through Kessler's punches. So Kessler adapted.

Kessler also adapted versus Mundine, as he didn't have the fitness to box in his normal style.

As for Calzaghe beating Andrade - sure - but he'd have multible fractors in both hands doing so. And the arguement is stupid any way - Calzaghe hasn't got an opponent on his resume, that I don't think Kessler will beat - and what that "prove" - well nothing much in regard to who wins Kessler-Calzaghe :)

[Faetter_BR]

he couldn't just keep Andrade away with the jab-jab-cross combination,

[jahobe]

Andrade was infront of Kessler for 12 rounds moving forward pressing Kessler back - for 12 rounds none stop. He didn't have much succes with it, but it sure was pressure.

Several here predicted that Andrade's pressure-style would give Kessler problems - because Kessler moves strait back, has no upperbody movement and will break under pressure. Kessler proved all those points wrong - due what you still claim he can't do - adapt. Andrade might not be a future worldchampion, but he had a style that forced Kessler to adapt - he could just keep Andrade away with the jab-jab-cross combination, because Andrade's chin made him able to move strait through Kessler's punches. So Kessler adapted.

Kessler also adapted versus Mundine, as he didn't have the fitness to box in his normal style.

As for Calzaghe beating Andrade - sure - but he'd have multible fractors in both hands doing so. And the arguement is stupid any way - Calzaghe hasn't got an opponent on his resume, that I don't think Kessler will beat - and what that "prove" - well nothing much in regard to who wins Kessler-Calzaghe :)



No doubt kessler can adapt, i agree with one of your earlier posts were you said something like kessler has not had to change his style to much because he is so good at doing what he does, he basically gets his way but when he needs to he can adapt, i think people really underestimate his boxing skill he is not just jabs and power shots he is an extremely good thinker in the ring and i am so impressed with his accuracy when he lets the power go. I hated the guy when i first got a glimpse of him in the mundine fight because i was in mundine's corner but after that fight i ended up seeing a fair few of his older fights and his fights since then and i think he is top class.

there is no doubting calzaghe's class, no matter what people say about who he has fought in the past he is an unbeaten champion and deserves respect, but Kessler is going to slap the respect out of him, kessler KO..

[China_hand_Joe]

I'll give the OP credit, he posted a very intelligent argument for his pick to win the fight. Its nice to read something other than "Kessler sucks" or "Calzaghe is 10x better"
However i stick with my prediction: Kessler wins. I've watched Calzaghe for most of the last ten years...he is a very very good fighter. But i think that he leaves him self open to a good jab. Kessler's jab is going to make the difference in the fight. Remember Calzaghe struggled against Robin Reid. IF you've only seen his fights with Lacy, Bika, and Manfredo you might think JC is better than he really is.

How and count how many jabs Reid landed against Calzaghe.

He leaves himself open to the right hand.

That is a known fact, yet the Kessler fans keep claiming Kessler will dominate with the jab.

This leads me to believe you all pick Kessler then look for a way for him to win after...don't find it and make one up instead.

"Calzaghe leaves himself open to a good jab"

[Tobang07]

But hey, bring the fight on - I'm really sick of arguing about it with guys who don't know boxing and that in effect, is what I've been doing.


THEN STOP ARGUING. How hard can it be.

DONT POST ANYMORE on Kessler-Calzaghe fight and let all the dumb ignorant false knowledge idiots you claim everyone is, that doesnt aggree with you, have they debate.

Most people here doesnt care shit of your opinion. Your a joke to most.
You basicly have two things to say, and both of them are stupid.

1: Calzaghe will run over the the hype-job Kessler as a train on steroids. Kessler is a wanker and you hate him and all of his countrymen...bla..bla..bla.

2: Everyone in ESB can go fuck them self, because no one have the godlike TRUE boxing knowledge as you have.

OKAY, you maid you point. And you have made it for, as you say, four months. Now go annoy someone else, cause everyone here knows your lack of reason and your hatefull soul.

And let the the rest of us argue on. Maybe you can create a "True boxing Knowledge Forum" somewhere.

GEEZ what a joke you are Blocky.

THe only comforting thing about all this, that everyone by now, knows what a big hatefull and unreasonable person you are.

[Tobang07]

That is a known fact, yet the Kessler fans keep claiming Kessler will dominate with the jab.

I doubt Kessler will dominate with his jab.
I also doubt that most reasonable Kessler fans believe that.

But im sure theres a good chance that Kesslers jab will cause trouble to Calzaghe style.

Wether its enough to win is hard to say.

By the way, when Kessler has his right side open, its only to invite the opponent to react on it.

[psychopath]

Have the calfags haven't had enough on saying how great of a fighter their idol is? :patsch

500th thread repeating the same bullshits. :-(

:zzz

[China_hand_Joe]

When it has been universally established that Joe Calzaghe is the best fighter of the past decade, I will sleep.

[The Man 247]

When it has been universally established that Joe Calzaghe is the best fighter of the past decade, I will sleep.

Three Words For You.

Roy Jones Junior

[sjc]

THEN STOP ARGUING. How hard can it be.

DONT POST ANYMORE on Kessler-Calzaghe fight and let all the dumb ignorant false knowledge idiots you claim everyone is, that doesnt aggree with you, have they debate.

Most people here doesnt care shit of your opinion. Your a joke to most.
You basicly have two things to say, and both of them are stupid.

1: Calzaghe will run over the the hype-job Kessler as a train on steroids. Kessler is a wanker and you hate him and all of his countrymen...bla..bla..bla.

2: Everyone in ESB can go fuck them self, because no one have the godlike TRUE boxing knowledge as you have.

OKAY, you maid you point. And you have made it for, as you say, four months. Now go annoy someone else, cause everyone here knows your lack of reason and your hatefull soul.

And let the the rest of us argue on. Maybe you can create a "True boxing Knowledge Forum" somewhere.

GEEZ what a joke you are Blocky.

THe only comforting thing about all this, that everyone by now, knows what a big hatefull and unreasonable person you are.

Wow, bit harsh that.

[China_hand_Joe]

Three Words For You.

Roy Jones Junior

He's an American legend! So he must be better!

Roy was consistant, but Joe on his day is superior.

[The Man 247]

He's an American legend! So he must be better!

Roy was consistant, but Joe on his day is superior.

Im not even an American.

Joe is nothing compared to RJJ. I just wish you could stop nut hugging joe. RJJ is so much higher than him its not funny.

[China_hand_Joe]

RJJ is so much higher than him its not funny.

That doesn't make you immune to the media they put out everyday.

"So much higher"? Whoever is better, one thing we know for sure is it is close. You have demonstrated you are incapable of being objective for one second. I will now cease communications with you based on that and your avatar.

[The Man 247]

That doesn't make you immune to the media they put out everyday.

"So much higher"? Whoever is better, one thing we know for sure is it is close. You have demonstrated you are incapable of being objective for one second. I will now cease communications with you based on that and your avatar.

Are you all there in the head? Your not making sense. Im defending RJJ as being the best boxer in the past decade and i have an avatar of Mundine and you think thats bias to RJJ so your not talking to me? WTF? you have an avatar of joe and you keep talking him up. If anyone should be given the silence treatment, i should not be talking to you.

[Tobang07]

Wow, bit harsh that.

Well, considering Blockys way of debating im an angel.

Just tired of all the non-boxing related hate and manipulation coming from the guy.

[van the man]

yep - with a few extra demands it appears. Palle responded with a higher offer.

Palle's first offer wasn't a ready to sign contract - he 5,5M offer is - so this time ****** has to accept for real :)

But it's kinda funny how the standard are different when it comes to offers.

When ****** went back on his 5M offer - people where saying that Palle/Kessler was ducking Calzaghe for not taking the 3M offer, even though ****** had offered 5M to get Palle to the table. Then when ****** "accepted" Palle's offer Palle/Kessler was again ducking Calzaghe for not answering right away - Now Palle has made a contract-offer for 5,5M $ - a career high payday for Calzaghe - and ****** is yet to answer (got the offer last sunday) - but it's still Palle/Kessler that is ducking Calzaghe... :think

:think :think :good

[Arthur]

How and count how many jabs Reid landed against Calzaghe.

He leaves himself open to the right hand.

That is a known fact, yet the Kessler fans keep claiming Kessler will dominate with the jab.

This leads me to believe you all pick Kessler then look for a way for him to win after...don't find it and make one up instead.

"Calzaghe leaves himself open to a good jab"

this from the guy who said that Calzaghe is p4p better than SRR. :patsch

[Faetter_BR]

btw - anybody know where to find Calzaghe-Veit II???

[China_hand_Joe]

this from the guy who said that Calzaghe is p4p better than SRR. :patschI have never stated that as a fact. I have however pointed out SRR would lose to Calzageh at 168, something there should be little doubt about.

[deram]

I might as well come clean. I bet $50 on Calzaghe about a month ago. At the time he was underdog at the bookies and I am a valuebetter.

$50 is not much in relation to my pot so if odds change I might very well hedge.

Even fight imo.

[Faetter_BR]

I might as well come clean. I bet $50 on Calzaghe about a month ago. At the time he was underdog at the bookies and I am a valuebetter.

$50 is not much in relation to my pot so if odds change I might very well hedge.

Even fight imo.

yep - I've done the same thing with the Danish national soccerteam - come fightday you can't loose - either your man wins or you win a lot of money :D

[Brickhaus]

(a) I still don't see how comparing resumes helps either guy's case here; (b) Kessler's resume in the past 4 years is as good as Calzaghe's, if not better. I still lean Calzaghe, but it has nothing to do with their resumes. To me, Andrade, Beyer, Lucas, Mundine, Siaca, Green, Cummings and a couple of cans is more impressive than Lacy, Mitchell, Bika, Ashira, Veit and a couple of cans.

I can understand a style argument for why one would beat the other, but it seems fruitless to compare resumes, especially when (a) Kessler has never fought a fighter like Calzaghe, (b) Calzaghe hasn't fought a fighter as well-rounded as Kessler since he started having hand problems and (c) they've never faced any common opponents.

[deram]

(a) I still don't see how comparing resumes helps either guy's case here; (b) Kessler's resume in the past 4 years is as good as Calzaghe's, if not better. I still lean Calzaghe, but it has nothing to do with their resumes. To me, Andrade, Beyer, Lucas, Mundine, Siaca, Green, Cummings and a couple of cans is more impressive than Lacy, Mitchell, Bika, Ashira, Veit and a couple of cans.

I can understand a style argument for why one would beat the other, but it seems fruitless to compare resumes, especially when (a) Kessler has never fought a fighter like Calzaghe, (b) Calzaghe hasn't fought a fighter as well-rounded as Kessler since he started having hand problems and (c) they've never faced any common opponents.

Calzaghe has never fought anyone like Kessler. Kessler has never fought anyone like Calzaghe.

[China_hand_Joe]

yep - I've done the same thing with the Danish national soccerteam - come fightday you can't loose - either your man wins or you win a lot of money :D
Typical optimist's view.

You can't win mate, your teams loses or you lose money.

I understand why your brain does it though, a defensive mechanism. Manfredo fans developed into optimists before he fought Joe too.

[Faetter_BR]

Typical optimist's view.

You can't win mate, your teams loses or you lose money.

I understand why your brain does it though, a defensive mechanism. Manfredo fans developed into optimists before he fought Joe too.

has nothing to do with "defensive mechanisms" ... I'm just positiv from nature :D

As for this fight - I exspect everybody to win - this is a fight on level that we seldom see - this is the RJJ-Tiger - the Calzaghe-Ottke and so on - the fights that everybody wants, but we very seldom get because of politics and money. If this fights comes through - then we are all winners...

Although after the fight Kessler-fans will be some what more winners :yep

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe-Ottke Don't compare Kessler to Ottke! Ottke would have been totally outclassed, Kessler won't. The fight would have been a pointless exercise.

[China_hand_Joe]

Reid was nothing like a standup boxer.

[Faetter_BR]

(a) I still don't see how comparing resumes helps either guy's case here; (b) Kessler's resume in the past 4 years is as good as Calzaghe's, if not better. I still lean Calzaghe, but it has nothing to do with their resumes. To me, Andrade, Beyer, Lucas, Mundine, Siaca, Green, Cummings and a couple of cans is more impressive than Lacy, Mitchell, Bika, Ashira, Veit and a couple of cans.

I can understand a style argument for why one would beat the other, but it seems fruitless to compare resumes, especially when (a) Kessler has never fought a fighter like Calzaghe, (b) Calzaghe hasn't fought a fighter as well-rounded as Kessler since he started having hand problems and (c) they've never faced any common opponents.

spot on :)

[China_hand_Joe]

You aren't just a wind-up merchant, are you?

[Faetter_BR]

Don't compare Kessler to Ottke! Ottke would have been totally outclassed, Kessler won't. The fight would have been a pointless exercise.

I didn't :) - I compared the - "this is the fight we want to see factor". Ottke was unified and had 21 defenses - so his resume more than lives up to Kessler's - although only on paper :)

Fights on this level seldom come through - hopefully this one will.

[China_hand_Joe]

Lets ignore those fighters loses and Calzaghe's wins...and continue to argue Nunn is superior to Calzaghe.

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe makes no end of mistakers, Kessler makes no mistakes

Calzaghe will be the underdog for the second time in his career, but this time it will be justified3rd time. Eubanks was favorite, the weight-drained and shot myths are just myths.

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe was the underdog, it was his first step up really. People thought it would be too much.

[langshof]

Not biased at all, I've given Kessler credit where he's due it. Im not even a fan of Calzaghe, I respect his boxing skill but I hate the way his career path has gone and would much rathered him to have fought the big names years ago when they and Joe himself were most likely in their primes Rjj - Benn - Bhop etc....

It's not a case of being objective, I genuinely see little in Kessler that will give Calzaghe trouble and i've stated why. Dont hype Kessler up to be more than what he is, its so similar to what happened pre-Lacy its uncanny. Oh and dont give me that bullcrap about the resume's, yes anyone could have twisted them to sound better but look at the names and look at the fights, if you've knowledge of them which im sure you have, then you'd know who's was better.

Kessler's a good fighter, agreed. But Calzaghe's a great one. Difference.

To be a great boxer you have to beat great boxers. Calzaghe hasn't beaten any great boxers. Not one. He beat Eubank who was a very good boxer on the slide, not great. A 10 year reign at WBO doesn't make you great either when your opponents arent even near great. Objectively, none of JCs defences have been against great opponents. A couple of good ones, none great.

Who will win the - hopefully - upcoming fight JC vs. Kess? I have no idea. That's why I want it to happen. Also because it would finally change the jc / Kess debates here to post fight debates instead of pre fight debates. There's pretty much nothing new to add untill the fight has happened.

Get it on!:bbb

[Faetter_BR]

3rd time. Eubanks was favorite, the weight-drained and shot myths are just myths.

yep because he went on to fight in that weightclass and won... no sorry I was wrong - he went up in weight - to cruiser and lost twich to Carl Thompson...

Still a good win - but Eubanks was drained and he was over the top...

[henrik]

???...look at joe´s last 3 "fights",compared to kesslers...

[Astola]

Some good predictions so far, but there's two arguments that keeps being mentioned, which I think doesnt belong in a fightprediction.

1: The resumes. We have to look at there current form and talent and not who they fought in the past. I know it can give an indication, but its hardly worth anything at this moment.
First of, Kessler has been a champ for 2 years and is only beginning to collect some decent heads.
Second, we all know that context and motivations and alot other stuff is a big factor in an actual fight. It doesnt make sense to predict this fight based on who these guys has fought in the past. At best one could use they last 2-3 fights as an indicator, but in that regard Calzaghe doesnt score high, neither does Kessler.

2: Another argument which is pure nonsens, is comparing Kessler to Lacy. Not skillwise, but hypewise. It doesnt make sense to say, "calzaghe will win, because Lacy turned out to be a hype job, and now alot of people thinks Kessler is going to win, so hes a hypejob to".

My personal opinion on the fight is, its going to be very close. Calzaghe does have the tools to counter Kesslers style, but so does Kessler the other way around. You need a good jab to counter a southpaw flurry. So it comes down to who is the best at what they do(surprise:). They both have the tools.

I dont agree that Kessler is one-dimensional. Hes a very clever boxer, and hes been trained to keep cool and follow his plan. Hes also very good at timing and he quickly knows how to beat his opponent. That means he doesnt flurry, he doesnt throw to many useless punches, when he throws he hits, and that can be seen as one-dimensional. If one watch the Andrade fight closely, one could see that he can do alot of other stuff, than his famous jab-jab-right. He might not do it at the same rate as Calzaghe, but he does what it takes to win. And if he knows he can win a fight jab-jab-right, then thats what he does. Sticks to the plan, sticks to his best weapon, but if he needs to he can do alot more. Maybe he cant do it as good as his prime weapon, and that is maybe the reason he will loose, but hes not one-dimensional.

And please, yes Kessler moves back alot to avoid getting hit, but please dont say he "stumbles back". Its just BS.


I actually said it a bit better 3 months ago or so.:yep

Great post! Its the excact thing about this fight - who's the best at what they do!

[China_hand_Joe]

I think it depends on what Calzaghe shows up.

[Astola]

I think it depends on what Calzaghe shows up.

Nope, China.

Calzaghe is gonna show up in the best form of his life:deal

Kessler vice versa. I personally beleive that their skill level is very close and I hate dudes who say shit about either fighter.

In my best judgement Kessler will have the edge over Joe. This because Joe has to get close to Kessler in order to score or make some damaging flurries...

Kessler is very good at reading the game and he will be ready for Calzaghe. Calzaghes foot speed actually wont play that big a role because Kessler will hit Joe (Joe's trying to get inside)because of Kessler extremely accurate punches. This scenario will continue untill round 5 or 6 or so. Kessler counterpunching Joe and Joe still landing a few combos.

After 5/6 the fight will change - Joe will try to RUN into Kessler which naturally causes problems for the slower Kessler. Joe is damaging Kessler who apparently seems awkwardly passive. Joe has the command in these rounds.

Round 8/9 changes into a slugfest - Joe loosing his speed and Kessler loosing his power. Neither gets severely hurt.

Round 10/12 will be Joe's last chance to score a decision ud/sd.

Kessler will knockdown Joe in the 11'th.

Conclusion:
Kessler wins - in Copenhagen - a pretty comfortable decision or a late tko.


Why?

Because Kessler has the tools to compete with Calzaghe.
Besides - This fight is inside vs outside. Outside wins 8 out of 10 times in my book.

Fuck Blocky's and others analysis. They clearly have something against Kessler = Biased mo'fos.

[Astola]

Let me add.

Round 10/12 is a matter of stamina and ring generalship. They are on the same level in these skills.

Kessler will have the edge though, cause he is younger, stronger + Joe has fragile hands.

(Fragile hands do allright against Ashira - but hell no against Kessler)

[Astola]

Calzaghe would pose more problems for Kessler than Kessler would for Calzaghe if you ask me.

Calzaghe by clear decision, Kessler hasn't convinced me he can beat Calzaghe with his simple 1-2 combinations..does he ever throw a left hook or mix in a bodypunch? hardly.

I can see that he COULD do so. But NOTHING in Calzaghes style or latest fights convince me.

Stop the utter nonsense that Kessler is a standup euro 1-2 fighter. His last fight showed a hell lot more.

[sjc]

Let me add.

Round 10/12 is a matter of stamina and ring generalship. They are on the same level in these skills.

Kessler will have the edge though, cause he is younger, stronger + Joe has fragile hands.

(Fragile hands do allright against Ashira - but hell no against Kessler)

You think Kessler beats Joe on stamina? That's a bold statement. Joe will keep punching all night long.

As Lacy's trainers said to him after about round 3 or 4 "He can't keep up this pace!"

They were wrong. 1000 punches later they no doubt realised.

[China_hand_Joe]

Joe can tire in fights...but it is doubtful assuming he trains.

[Astola]

You think Kessler beats Joe on stamina? That's a bold statement. Joe will keep punching all night long.

As Lacy's trainers said to him after about round 3 or 4 "He can't keep up this pace!"

They were wrong. 1000 punches later they no doubt realised.

I know - but Kessler will keep countering all night. Kessler never looses control of things - Joe does. Thats gonna show in the later rounds.

Joe will keep punchin' though - but as I see it he will be hit straight back. remember - this aint no lacy/Miranda kinda slugger type. Its a technically very sound fighter who can adapt according to his opponent reactions. hell of a difference.

As for the Lacy fight.... Joe was magnificant - a true legend that night.

[Astola]

:huh

Against Andrade? that's all he did was jab...big right hand..move to the right..jab..another big right hand...jab..jab......jab.....big right hand..little left hook...jab...jab...right hand again.


And some more....

Kessler showed one weakness (or maybe not a part of strategy) not throwing any body punches. If he had - he would have tko'ed Andrade.

But besides that - he threw every punch availible...

[China_hand_Joe]

As for the Lacy fight.... Joe was magnificant - a true legend that night.If that Joe turns up (I take Lacy's skill into account and have actually mesaured the physical speed of Joe's hands and relexes) then I can't see Kessler beating him (I have also measured his handspeed and reflexes too).

[Astola]

Blocky: This is why I fucking laugh at Kessler fans

Myth 1: Kessler will have more stamina

No I didnt say that. I said they have pretty much the same stamina. Besides, fuckhead, It depends on the previous rounds and if you read my post you will see that Joe has to work a hell of a lot harder...

Kessler has half the work rate and has shown in the Mundine and Andrade fights that he tires after eight rounds... Calzaghe has shown an ability to punch all night at a high workrate.

Myth 2: Calzaghe is open to the jab

I told you before - Kessler aint no amateur. Its textbook knowledge what you claim, but I'll bet its gonna be different come fightnight. Kessler will counter Joe trying to get in. Kessler will be damaged when Joe gets in. As simple as that.

Find me an occassion where Calzaghe has been hit more than 50 times in a night with a jab, stupid dipshits - Calzaghe, like most southpaws with a high lead hand does not have any issue with the jab

Myth 3: Lacy was a crude slugger

Jesusu christ - you ignorant piece of shit - David Tua had a gloryfying amateur career. Lacy aint no CRUDE slugger - but a slugger, yes indeed.
Great boxing skills?? Get a grip. He was a solid contender. But thats it.


Lacy had years upon years of top amateur experience, he had great boxing skills and was just beaten to the punch on the night by Calzaghe - it is still not a forgone conclusion that Kessler would beat Lacy - I still say Lacy beats Kessler

Stop perpetuating the bollocks - let them fight, then all of you Danish little cock suckers can line up, one by one and suck the shit out of my arse - because it will taste better than the crow you're going to be forced to eat after the fight goes down the way I've indicated time and time again.

Im not danish. Im from SUOMI. And why the fuck does nationallity matter?

:-(

[Astola]

So let me get this straight.

You contest that Kessler throws less punches because he doesn't have to throw them - not that he tires later in the fight as he obviously showed against both Mundine and Andrade

You contest that Kessler is more than just textbook yet his entire fight plan and scheme is straight out of the textbook with little differential

You contest that Lacy was just a solid contender, despite Lacy knocking off more solid fighters before his 20th fight than Kessler has done in near 40.

I contest you're a raving fucking idiot.

Well obviously you do - youre a nonconfident guy needing to throw trash at dudes on the internet. Your girlfriend must have a sour piece of... :tired

You sound just like one of the guys in my avatar.


:scaredas: :scaredas:

Im telling you that Lacy was no SRR. He was a very talented SLUGGER. Eat it.

Im telling you that Kessler's forces is th 1-2, jabbin' but a hell of alot more. If you dont see it youre a hater:deal

And yes - I tell you that Kessler CONTROLS things. He's been in superiour control in all the fights Ive seen so far.

Calzaghe is a legend. but why the fuck do you keep on fucking with Kessler???

[van the man]

Im not danish. Im from SUOMI. And why the fuck does nationallity matter?

:-(

cause blocky dont know any other way to comunicate with other people,and im beginin to think his hate for us danes might have something to do with his girlfriend being from sweden(our neigbours).
u see the swedish people often travel to denmark were they get drunk in our fine beer, and maybe she did that at some point and maybe she had sex with a danish guy:hey so maybe blocky hate is born from him being jaloux or maybe she told him she thinks kessler are hansome........im realy not sure but he REALLY hate us danes for some reason ?! ...but u know what? we dont really care about blocky, cause all he ever does is talk shit to people who dare to argue with his opinions.... and all that does is take away any focus from what we are debating but im not sure he even cares hes most likely here for the verbal brawl and nothing else:tired

[Faetter_BR]

So let me get this straight.

You contest that Kessler throws less punches because he doesn't have to throw them - not that he tires later in the fight as he obviously showed against both Mundine and Andrade

You contest that Kessler is more than just textbook yet his entire fight plan and scheme is straight out of the textbook with little differential

You contest that Lacy was just a solid contender, despite Lacy knocking off more solid fighters before his 20th fight than Kessler has done in near 40.

I contest you're a raving fucking idiot.

Calzaghe would be dead tired if he had fought Andrade that night - In the last two Calzaghe fights I've watched (Reid and Bika) he was more tired than Kessler was after Andrade. And it pretty normal to be tired after 12 rounds of boxing. Both Kessler and Calzaghe has a high workrate and both got a great stamina.

As for the Mundine fight - for a guy who had no roadwork and only 30 rounds of sparring and fighting in 40 degreas (hot for a Dane) I think he did pretty good.

As for Lacy - I just love your logic and way of debating.

1. Lacy is a great fighter as he had had +200 amateur fights versus good opponents - so he was proven even before he turned pro! - So Calzaghe beating him is amasing

2. Kessler is crap as he had to have 34 fights before he took a shot at a worldtitle - where Lacy only needed 16...

Make the f*cking math! - Kessler very few amateur fights - he started boxing at age 14 and turned pro at age 18. Lacy started boxing age 8 and turned pro aged 24. Kessler became a Worldchampion at age 25 - Lacy was 27!!!

I've made this math for you several times - but as my other lesson (the how much did Kessler make of the Andrade-fight math-piece) you tend to forget :yep

[Smazz20]

cause blocky dont know any other way to comunicate with other people,and im beginin to think his hate for us danes might have something to do with his girlfriend being from sweden(our neigbours).
u see the swedish people often travel to denmark were they get drunk in our fine beer, and maybe she did that at some point and maybe she had sex with a danish guy:hey so maybe blocky hate is born from him being jaloux or maybe she told him she thinks kessler are hansome........im realy not sure but he REALLY hate us danes for some reason ?! ...but u know what? we dont really care about blocky, cause all he ever does is talk shit to people who dare to argue with his opinions.... and all that does is take away any focus from what we are debating but im not sure he even cares hes most likely here for the verbal brawl and nothing else:tired


Not rying to start an argument here or anything. But just the way you pointed that out. Imagine one of the Danish posters on this forum, actually did fuck Blocky's GF? That's be hilarious:lol:

[psychopath]

When it has been universally established that Joe Calzaghe is the best fighter of the past decade, I will sleep.

You got it wrong . . . JC will never be universally established as the best fighter in this past decade not unless he fights a out of his comfort zone.

So you better sleep now . . . that will only happen in your dreams. :yep

:lol: :rofl

[van the man]

Not rying to start an argument here or anything. But just the way you pointed that out. Imagine one of the Danish posters on this forum, actually did fuck Blocky's GF? That's be hilarious:lol:

its a small world , so u never know:think :lol:

[China_hand_Joe]

So you better sleep now . . . that will only happen in your dreams. :yep

:lol: :rofl
That is a lie and you know it. It could also happen in any delusions I may have, which are highly likely to occur when sleep deprived.

[langshof]

Calzaghe would be dead tired if he had fought Andrade that night - In the last two Calzaghe fights I've watched (Reid and Bika) he was more tired than Kessler was after Andrade. And it pretty normal to be tired after 12 rounds of boxing. Both Kessler and Calzaghe has a high workrate and both got a great stamina.

As for the Mundine fight - for a guy who had no roadwork and only 30 rounds of sparring and fighting in 40 degreas (hot for a Dane) I think he did pretty good.

As for Lacy - I just love your logic and way of debating.


1. Lacy is a great fighter as he had had +200 amateur fights versus good opponents - so he was proven even before he turned pro! - So Calzaghe beating him is amasing

2. Kessler is crap as he had to have 34 fights before he took a shot at a worldtitle - where Lacy only needed 16...

Make the f*cking math! - Kessler very few amateur fights - he started boxing at age 14 and turned pro at age 18. Lacy started boxing age 8 and turned pro aged 24. Kessler became a Worldchampion at age 25 - Lacy was 27!!!

I've made this math for you several times - but as my other lesson (the how much did Kessler make of the Andrade-fight math-piece) you tend to forget :yep

Blocky doesn't forget... To forget something, you'd have to have listened in the first place. That Blocky fuck is just too arrogant to listen.

[langshof]

Not rying to start an argument here or anything. But just the way you pointed that out. Imagine one of the Danish posters on this forum, actually did fuck Blocky's GF? That's be hilarious:lol:

Hilarious? Not for the dude that does her.
I've seen his girlfriend in one of his previous avatars.
She's a real prize cow.... - Without the prize.

Actually her picture is on the smiley list. :yikes

[cjk44]

Will calzaghe become a great if he beats kessler? Max kellerman thinks not.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[deram]

Apparently Blocky has been diagnosed with CCTS (Cronic Cyber Tourettes Syndrome).

We should be understanding instead of judging.

[Arthur]

Will calzaghe become a great if he beats kessler? Max kellerman thinks not.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

just more evidence to support my theory that Kellerman is a giant douchebag!

[deram]

Will calzaghe become a great if he beats kessler? Max kellerman thinks not.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Max is just being American catering to an American audience. I don't know if he really thinks so, but either way he has always be more known for being controversial than actually being right.

Here is another:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[China_hand_Joe]

Max is just a puppet of the American media and their anti-Calzaghe conspiracy.

[China_hand_Joe]

[Only registered and activated users can see links] is a beast.

[cnamdam]

Kessler is a beast.


calzaghe will school him

[Phys]

we should compare judges' scoring to the prediction.

[san rafael]

After just watching Kessler's fights against Mundine, Beyer and Andrade I fail to see how anyone would think that Kessler is the favouite to beat Calzaghe is their proposed sep/nov bout takes place.

What I saw of Kessler was impressive. He has a very good jab, its snappy and powerful, and he's at home following them up with stiff straight-rights which he seems to get good leverage on. He totally nullified Beyer with the jab and showed good power in order to get the ko, the same can nearly be said of Andrade if it wasnt for his freakish chin.

Kessler was also very impressive against Mundine, who's a very intelligent boxer. I had Mundine up 3-1 after the 4th round. Mundine used his superior speed to his advantage and landed solidly on a few occasions, but its more to be said about Mundine's lack of power than the solidness of Kesslers chin. Kessler then used the jab and big phsyical presence to keep Mundine on the back foot untill he eventually wore him down. All in all a very good showing by the dane against whats easily his best opponent.

However

Kessler has not been in the ring with anyone anywhere near Calzaghe's calibre or experience.

The arguement that lots of Kessler supporters use to discredit Calzaghe is the names of his opponents on his resume. This arguement could be used against Kessler even more so.

Kessler's best opposition:

Mundine - Good opponent, credit where credits due.

Besides that he's fought the human punchbag Andrade. A totally shot Beyer, who was never world class to begin with. Former WBC champ Eric Lucas. The only other possible exception being Craig Cummings who's fought some decent fighters but then again got absolutely destroyed by a world class Steve Collins.

If you compare them with Calzaghe's' resume:

Eubank (Not at his best, but still only 33, 2 years younger than Calz is now)
Robin Reid - Former WBC SMW champ
Ritchie Woodhall - Former WBC SMW champ
Charles Brewer - Former IBF SMW champ
Byron Mitchell - Former WBA SMW champ
Omar Sheika
Mario Veit x2 - Very similar to Kessler, more on him later.
Evans Ashira (With only 1 hand for nearly the whole fight and still won on a wide margin)
Saiko Bika - Difficult awkward opponent

And a shutout over Jeff Lacy who was rated in very similar fashion to the way Kessler is now and praised by Marvin Hagler to be "Top 6 pvp in the world", obviously before the Calzaghe fight.

There's no arguing that Calzaghe's resume isnt great, but it kicks the crap out of Kessler's.

Also has anyone noticed how similar Mario Veit and Mikkel Kessler are in regards to their fighting styles and skills ? Ok everything that Veit does Kessler does far far better, but in regards to the way they come forward and use their size and jab.

Calzaghe TKO 1 Veit
Calzaghe TKO 6 Veit - In Germany

Not drawing any comparisons :)


Head to Head

Kessler definatly has the edge in power, and he has the advantage of youth and strong hands, and has a great jab.


Calzaghe is in a different league with speed, he also has a good job, and posesses superior boxing skills. Calzaghe's movement and footwork are also better than Kessler's. His "swarm" style of attack is perfectly suited to Kessler's style and I just cant see what Kessler's going to do against it. Sure he's got a great jab, but Calzaghe's going to be too fast for him to be effective. Joe will go in on the inside and throw punches in quick combinations which will force Kessler to defend as his most effecitve weapon which is his jab will be neutralised. I think if Kessler's going to win it's going to have to be a knockout or Calzaghe's going to have to break both his hands (We've seen he's as effective with just the one hand), but as we know from experience Calzaghe has a great chin, where as Kessler's is relatively untested.

Calzaghe UD 12 Kessler

117 - 111
116 - 112
116 - 112

This isnt to say Kessler isnt a good fighter because I definatly think he's the number 2 SMW in the division and would beat Taylor/Pavlik/Miranda and the severely overhyped Dawson. I just think this is a fight of styles and is probably one step to many for Mikkel.

Definatly good things to come from Kessler in the future.

As for Calzaghe...winner of Bhop/Wright in Feb ?

Lets hope so.

Which was to say Calzaghe was way out of Kessler's league. But he wasn't.

[Phys]

People: The actual scoring was
117-111
116-112
116-112
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

THis guy's prediction was
117-111
116-112
116-112

Spot on! Identical.

Kudos to the OP.
Is he still here?!

Edit:
yesihavearm, the OP stopped posting in 2008. Sad, what a prediction.

[SomeGuy101]

Wow! Fuck me well done to the OP!!!!!! Spot on scoring!!!!

(Probably banned though, ESB Mods love to ban folk. I think they have ties with the English government)

[Phys]

That's sad if true, his OP was rational and wise, and his prediction was perfect for all 3 judges. How often does that happen?
Anybody know?

[JoeAverage]

If Kessler won 2 more rounds the fight would have been a draw - and that in Wales...

[iceferg]

The scoring after 11 was the same as in the Ward fight on my card but without the cheating. Kessler has won round 12 in every big fight he's had. Great post though.

Just shows how long the anti Calzaghe brigade have been around.

[iceferg]

If Kessler won 2 more rounds the fight would have been a draw - and that in Wales...

The scores were fair though. I had 117-111 against a much more active Kessler before any lay-offs and without a huge cut unlike the one Ward fought. Kessler was ducked by Bute at the time and was not KO'd by Andrade like Bute was.

[iceferg]

San Rafael - No. This was a great post and he actually had score cards which were the same as the judges and tottally fair. Great prediction looking back.

[Brickhaus]

People: The actual scoring was
117-111
116-112
116-112
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

THis guy's prediction was
117-111
116-112
116-112

Spot on! Identical.

Kudos to the OP.
Is he still here?!

Edit:
yesihavearm, the OP stopped posting in 2008. Sad, what a prediction.

IIRC, Yesihavearm was Amsterdam's alt. He got booted years ago. Spot on prediction on this one, but he had his fair share of misses too (Mijares jumps to mind immediately).