Max Schmeling vs Buster Douglas

[PhillyPhan69]

2 of the biggest upsets in the HW ranks IMO are Schmeling taking out Louis in 36 and Buster taking out Tyson in 90.

Max was facing up and coming and percieved to be unbeatable Joe Louis. Louis was 27-0 and seemed to be unstoppable.

Buster was facing the proven Iron Mike who was also percieved by many to be unbeatable. Tyson was 37-0 and seemed to be unstoppable.

max was a former champ while buster was going to be one (although that was unknown at the time). Both had glitches in their armor and both had been stopped 3 years prior to thier fight (Douglas by Tucker & Max by Max baer). Schmeling was 48(34)-7-4 Douglas was 29(19)-4-1.

I was wondering who would win 36' Schmeling (6'1 192) vs 90' Douglas (6'3.5 231). Douglas also had a nice reach advantage in this one. Feel free to make it prime vs prime if you want, I was just thinking about these 2 versions. How do you see it going?

[Holmes' Jab]

The very best of Douglas (Tokyo version) may well win a UD, though Schmeling would provide a very stern test. Any other time and Douglas loses, though. Schmeling was just the much more consistent fighter of the two.

[Hatesrats]

Max Schmeling beacause the Louis upset was bigger than Tyson.

[Antsu]

It sure wasnt

[fists of fury]

Max Schmeling beacause the Louis upset was bigger than Tyson.

No way.

[fists of fury]

I'll echo HJ's sentiments here. Between those two specific versions I pick Douglas. I reckon he could have caused a lot of trouble for just about anyone that night.
Overall, Schmeling. Douglas never reached the heights of Tokyo on any other night.

[Hatesrats]

No way.
I say because everyone knew that Tyson had not prepared up to his best leading up to the fight, even the commentators were saying that maybe tyson did not train his best for this.
I don't think we can say the same about Louis.
Joe trained and showed up to that fight Vs. Max at his best and just got caught. (Unless peep's got evedince otherwise) = Upset.

[PowerPuncher]

I think Douglas is 1 of the most underrated HWs of all time. HE wouldnt repeat his Tyson performance again but that version of Douglas beats many greats in history. Schmelling would have a nightmare getting past that jab and take uppercuts on the inside. I see Douglas by stoppage if hes at his best. If he just shows up unmotivated Schmelling takes him

[fists of fury]

I say because everyone knew that Tyson had not prepared up to his best leading up to the fight, even the commentators were saying that maybe tyson did not train his best for this.
I don't think we can say the same about Louis.
Joe trained and showed up to that fight Vs. Max at his best and just got caught. (Unless peep's got evedince otherwise) = Upset.

Louis didn't show up at his best though. He frequently left camp to go partying or to go see a woman. Max actually did him a favour, because after the loss Joe took his training more seriously. Not to take anything away from Max though...it was a tremendous performance.

The odds in the Tyson-Douglas fight was a ridiculous 42-1. That says it all really.

[Holmes' Jab]

Louis didn't show up at his best though. He frequently left camp to go partying or to go see a woman. Max actually did him a favour, because after the loss Joe took his training more seriously. Not to take anything away from Max though...it was a tremendous performance.

The odds in the Tyson-Douglas fight was a ridiculous 42-1. That says it all really.


Agree with that first part.

Regarding Tyson-Douglas, I was just about old enough to sort of remember the fight as it happened. Surreal stuff at the time, as a wee kid Tyson seemed like a superhero who couldn't be beaten. Obviously the outcome sent massive shockwaves through the sport, but in hindsight and when the dust has settled in the 18 years since it's fair to say Tyson definitely had something like that coming to him sooner rather than later.

It was still a shock of course and many were seemingly still sucked into believing the "Tyson is invincible" aura. The signs were there, though a year prior when he fought Bruno that all wasn't totally well, that's when the first cracks started to appear: plus he underestimated Douglas' ability and talent, believing in his own hype too much. Could Douglas have the self-belief to go out and beat him? I think most still thought otherwise at the time.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, though. You're older than me and you'll obviously recall the buildup and seeing the fight live far more vivedly than me. What were your thoughts back then?

[teeto]

Dont know, this is hard, Schmeling was a great hw imo, Douglas only so in a h2h sense. Maybe the Tokyo Douglas wins this, he probably does, but in general i could see Schmeling do it mostly. Really clever and could time that right to perfection with devastating effect, Douglas likes to use the jab, and if he's not in Tokyo form then Schmeling can come over the top of that and stop him imo.

I must make a pick so, at their best i'll pick Douglas, but it will be hard

[abraq]

Depends on which version of the fighters squares-off.

If they fought just as they were i.e. a 1930's Schmeling vs a 1990's Douglas and the Tyson version of Douglas showed up, then it is curtains for Max Schmeling. 'Buster' will just be too big and strong and good enough to counter Max's boxing skills.

However, if Max got the benefits of more than half a century of boxing progress and any other version of Douglas showed up, a victory for Schmeling is certain.

The real fight will be between a 1990 Schmeling (as he would be) in the 1st Louis fight shape versus a Douglas in the Tyson fight shape.

I will strtetch out my neck and say that Douglas wins a hard fought affair - by decision or late round stoppage.

[Chicago Nights]

I think Schmeling had more heart and desire, but I can't see Max getting past that jab. Douglas by cuts.

[PhillyPhan69]

so far 5 pick douglas (of that night) w/ 1 Schmeling. Of those 5 3 think Schmeling would beat douglas any other night..hmmm.

How much of Douglas's win was due to his excellance, and how much was due to Mike's deteriation (I don't believe it was as bad as some make it out to be..IMHO!).

I think both guys fought a brilliant fight. both seemed to know their opponent real well. If their opponent did not take them seriously I can't help that. I believe both of these guys would come in prepared. Both would look for flaws. I see douglas with a size, weight, reach advantage (if you want to call it that). I believe Schmeling to be the superior fighter. I see Schmeling taking this in a 12 rd UD (I believe it would be close though) or under old school rules KO 14.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Schmelling had Louis fight film specially processed so it was running lsow motion...first guy to do that...so when he said he thought he seen something, he went home and saw it.
So both get to look at Vidios....and Schmelling was a very intellegent counter puncher....Douglas had the best jab of his short era.
What are Douglass's weaknesses when he's got to chase down the guy...that is the key to such a fight.
Louis jab was considered extreamly good too but for that one small flaw....
Tyson was not in shape, had a pot belly...and idiots in his corner. With out the idiots in his corner he still might have won.

Douglass record was better so in spite of how much I like Schmelling, with 6 foot 3 1/2 and 83 inch reach at 230 vs 6 foot 1 76 inch reach and 192 pound fighter...douglass wins and more than just that fight, even if matched up and down the record. Schmelling did not have a granit jaw.

[janitor]

I can't see Max getting past that jab.

Schmeling beat Louis (who is arguably the best jabber of all time), specificaly by countering off his jab.

If Douglas is depending on his jab to win this fight for him then he is f***ed.

[jaywilton]

Douglas-at his best-should win without too much trouble.Obviously,he was pretty inconsistent.In any case,I think it's basically a mismatch;I think Schmeling rates higher historically-and hopefully he'll get the recognition he deserves for being an all-around great guy who was defamed for being a war criminal during WWII;he saved Jews during the Holocaust.And I think Douglas-at his best-would've done the same thing to Tyson in a rematch.

[mr. magoo]

A well trained and motivated version of Douglas ( not the one who fought Holyfield, Tucker, or Ferguson ), would have had my vote to take a decision or Tko win over Schmeling. Max was great in his day, but in this case, he'd be fighting a well skilled boxer who could battle from the outside, and use his sizeable reach and servicable jab to keep Max at bay. In addition, Douglas, had a very underrated right hand, that after a number rounds of creating openings with the jab would begin to land on Schmeling perhaps causing a fair bit of damage. Buster was a 6'4", 225 Lb black heavyweight who generally fought better athletes. Schmeling is a much better legacy fighter, but Douglas was a product of a stronger era, and head to head this match is all wrong for Max.

[janitor]

The enigma of Douglas is that he really is a champion who only had one great fight in him.

I can honestly say that if I had seen nothing of Douglases career apart from the Tyson fight I would asume that I was looking at an all time great, even if I had seen nothing else of Mike Tysons career.

If Nat Fleischer came back from the dead tomorrow and the first thing you showed him was that fight he would asume that he was looking at a great fighter.

The problem is that outside of that fight he really didnt have any outstanding wins.

If Schmeling had fallen under a bus the day before the Louis fight we would asume that he was rescued from a brutal knockout but his resume would still stack up against a Baer or Sharkey.

[mr. magoo]

The enigma of Douglas is that he really is a champion who only had one great fight in him.

I can honestly say that if I had seen nothing of Douglases career apart from the Tyson fight I would asume that I was looking at an all time great, even if I had seen nothing else of Mike Tysons career.

If Nat Fleischer came back from the dead tomorrow and the first thing you showed him was that fight he would asume that he was looking at a great fighter.

The problem is that outside of that fight he really didnt have any outstanding wins.

True, the Tyson fight was by far his grand opus, and that wasn't what I would call the best rendering of Tyson by even a long shot. Still, the physical ability and natural talent was there. He was a big strong heavyweight with an above average jab, good footwork, medium power, and the capacity to go the distance if he had to. Although the Tyson fight can't be used as an accurate measure of how good Douglas really was, we can say for certain that he was a top rated heavweight fairly consistantly between 1987-1990. He had notable performances against Greg Page, Trevor Berbick, Oliver McCall and Tex Cobb ( for what those fights are worth. ) Legacy wise, we can't say much for James, but in head to head matchups, his talents need to be considered.

[PowerPuncher]

Louis (who is arguably the best jabber of all time), .

He isn't a top 10 HW jabber by a long way

[janitor]

He isn't a top 10 HW jabber by a long way

I meant at heavyweight.

[la-califa]

I say because everyone knew that Tyson had not prepared up to his best leading up to the fight, even the commentators were saying that maybe tyson did not train his best for this.
I don't think we can say the same about Louis.
Joe trained and showed up to that fight Vs. Max at his best and just got caught. (Unless peep's got evedince otherwise) = Upset. Well actually Joe didn't get caught. Max studied Joe very thoroughly. and found a flaw in Joe's style in which Max exploited. After Joe threw a jab he pulled back his left very low and was vulnerable to a counter right hand. if you see the film of the first fight. Schmeling countered with a right hand over and over again. As far as Tyson he was just not prepared & there is no excuse for that.

[bumdujour]

douglas, as far as i know, had one night when he actually fought up to his abilities................that was when he beat tyson.

that douglas probably would have beaten schmeling.

but i wouldnt pick a fighter based on the ability he showed in only a single fight.

so its schmeling all the way, maybe even by stoppage.

[la-califa]

douglas, as far as i know, had one night when he actually fought up to his abilities................that was when he beat tyson.

that douglas probably would have beaten schmeling.

but i wouldnt pick a fighter based on the ability he showed in only a single fight.

so its schmeling all the way, maybe even by stoppage. exactly. In Douglas' next fight against Holyfield, he looked horrible, getting kayoed in the process.