Samart Payakaroon KO5 Lupe Pintor

[McGrain]

Here is the extraordinary KO:

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Payakaroon fought world champ Netrnoi Vorasingh on his debut, winning a wide decision over 10 (haven't seen this fight - anyone?). Admittedly, he had already proven himself an extraordinary athlete with an exceptional left hand in his Mhuy Thai career before being matched with WBC champ Lupe Pintor (who failed to make the super-bantamweight limit, coming in at around 125) - in only his 11th pro fight. Pintor was on the wane, but he was also an experienced road warrior who was outweighing his opponent on the night. What a fantastic win.

However - i've also heard the occasional rumble that it was fixed. With the title technically vacant going into the bout, it is true that Pintor had less to lose than would otherwise have been the case - anyone hear anything about this?

Any opinions on Payakaroon more generally are very welcome.

[McGrain]

Bob Mee on Lupe Pintor:

"A tough, all-action brawler with a fast left hook, Lupe Pintor fought his way out of poverty to win two world titles. He loved to work the body and beceame a big favourite in Mexico and on the West Coast, where he sometimes rode his luck but always gave big hearted performances.

...

Pintor was lucky to win a 15 round decision over the great Carlos Zarate in June of 79, but went on to prove himself an excellent champion...After losing in 14 round to WBC super-bantamweight champion Wiflredo Gomez in Decemeber of 1982 he relinquished the bantamweight title. This battle-hardened little man, who learned to box in order to protect his pitch as an ice-cream seller, won the WBC 122lb belt in August of 1985 when he outpointed compatriot Juan Menza in Mexico City, but was then KO'd in 5 by brilliant southpaw Samart Payakarun (sic) in Bangkok in January of 1986."

[JohnThomas1]

Pintor was my favourite Bantamweight for the better part of 6 years. It cut me deep when he lost to Gomez, putting up such a valiant effort. H2H i think Pintor is easily a top 15 Bantam ever.

[McGrain]

Interesting stuff JT. Didn't know that about you. Have you seen the Payakaroon fight?

What did you make of Fenech's effort against Samarat? I read that he didn't really train for that fight (more fool him).

[Minotauro]

Samart is regarded as one of the greatest muay thai fighters ever he won Lumpinee titles in four different weight classes, he's worshipped in Thailand he does movies and sings. Here is a great highlight of him:
5491658146184991961&q=Samart+Payakaroon&ei=XE1BSLbYApP8rQLnlZmcCQ&hl=en
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[McGrain]

Cool video. He could bang allright.

[salsanchezfan]

...............Thanks for posting that McGrain.......

Another little tidbit; after being stopped by Fenech, Payakarun retired to become a buddhist monk.

[McGrain]

Another little tidbit; after being stopped by Fenech, Payakarun retired to become a buddhist monk.

No shit!!!

Before then, in that case, he launched a short lived come back and a series of pop-records ("pop-records"...Jesus). Quite the life.

More and mroe I get the impression that apart from maybe one or two colourfully named superstars, there just isn't enough exposure for these men, even here, in the classic forum. Interesting stories and great, great fighters.

[JohnThomas1]

Interesting stuff JT. Didn't know that about you. Have you seen the Payakaroon fight?

What did you make of Fenech's effort against Samarat? I read that he didn't really train for that fight (more fool him).

Yu-kPjYHTEk

Mate i lived and breathed the Fenech fight. The mate and i used to drink copious amounts of beers to the Fenech explosion. It was fascinating to watch him learn his trade (won the title so early) on suposedly superior (and definitely favoured) fighters, where he most often beat them down to a pulp. Coffee, McCrory, both very favoured yet Jeff was just too damn tough. VC was fave too from memory but Fenech beat him down in a brutal dirty stouch.

HUGE fan of Pintor tho. I wanted a unification vs Chandler. Chandler was classier, but Pintor was tougher. The experts always favoured Jeff, but i am not so sure. It was way later that i came to like Jeff Chandler a lot as well. Call it nostalgia.

[McGrain]

Yeah, Fenech was some man, I think I been guilty of underating the guy in the past.

Shame the YouTube video doesn't have the whole fight...that was the first time Fenech was every down, right?

[McGrain]

Christ, watching that fight again, if Payakaroon really failed to train properly for this fight, he picked the wrong man to come in ill prepared for...

[salsanchezfan]

................I still haven't found anyone that has a copy of Pintor-Meza. :-(

I'll never forget having to work that day, then reading about how great the fight had been a month later in the magazines.

A rueful memory of loss. :|

[JohnThomas1]

Yeah, Fenech was some man, I think I been guilty of underating the guy in the past.

Shame the YouTube video doesn't have the whole fight...that was the first time Fenech was every down, right?

Yeah, i think he put Fenech down in the first.

[JohnThomas1]

Christ, watching that fight again, if Payakaroon really failed to train properly for this fight, he picked the wrong man to come in ill prepared for...

No fighter on earth put more pressure on than Fenech for a time. He just wore them down with sheer workrate, intensity and savagery. Drag em down take em out stuff, and nobody did it better. He did the same in Nelson I. Not a huge hitter but that made him all the more gruelling in a way.

[McGrain]

No fighter on earth put more pressure on than Fenech for a time. He just wore them down with sheer workrate, intensity and savagery. Drag em down take em out stuff, and nobody did it better. He did the same in Nelson I. Not a huge hitter but that made him all the more gruelling in a way.

He shows good punch resistance in that round though, but he doesn't show any real mobility, does he? It's like he came ill prepared with the wrong fight plan...just found himself overwhelmed, as you say, by sheer intensity.

[JohnThomas1]

He shows good punch resistance in that round though, but he doesn't show any real mobility, does he? It's like he came ill prepared with the wrong fight plan...just found himself overwhelmed, as you say, by sheer intensity.

Fenech took mobile fighters such as Coffee and McCrory out into deep water then drowned them. He'd actually beat down Smart very very quickly.

Looks like we might have a future Fenech fan in the making. He was like a young Duran with a bit less skill.

[salsanchezfan]

................My favorite Fenech fight was the Villasana match. He broke BOTH his hands in that one, but you'd never know it during the fight, just kept throwing and Villasana (an all-time great chin) just kept taking. I remember seeing Fenech literally sobbing with pain when they cut his gloves off. What a lion.

[McGrain]

Looks like we might have a future Fenech fan in the making. He was like a young Duran with a bit less skill.

Let's just say i'm having another long look.

"Duran with a BIT less skill" you say? :D

OK, so which fights represent him at his very best, for you?

[JohnThomas1]

Let's just say i'm having another long look.

"Duran with a BIT less skill" you say? :D

OK, so which fights represent him at his very best, for you?

He himself nominates the Victor Callejas fight as his greatest win. As well his wins over McCrory, Coffee and especially Nelson I are great indicators. Duran had the skill on him but Fenech used more physicality and intensity. It's funny how the comentators bag him early vs Nelson when outskilled but soon change their tune as Fenech slowly overwhelmes him.

[McGrain]

He himself nominates the Victor Callejas fight as his greatest win. As well his wins over McCrory, Coffee and especially Nelson I are great indicators. Duran had the skill on him but Fenech used more physicality and intensity. It's funny how the comentators bag him early vs Nelson when outskilled but soon change their tune as Fenech slowly overwhelmes him.

Familiar with the Nelson fight, but i've never seen Callejas or Villasana as nominated by Sal, so i'll look into these two I reckon.

You're on the record as having Fenech down as having "more physicality and intensity" than lightweight Duran?

[salsanchezfan]

Familiar with the Nelson fight, but i've never seen Callejas or Villasana as nominated by Sal, so i'll look into these two I reckon.

You're on the record as having Fenech down as having "more physicality and intensity" than lightweight Duran?



..............It sounds strange to say, but I'd agree with that statement. That was borne of necessity of course, as Duran could and did often box at a distance. Fenech had no such technical skills, and so his bread and butter was getting on top of his oppoenent and smothering him with an avalanche of punches.

[JohnThomas1]

You're on the record as having Fenech down as having "more physicality and intensity" than lightweight Duran?

Oh yes indeed. Fenech was a physical monster. His strength per weight was extraordinary and he put on incredible amounts of weight between the weigh in and actual bout.

[JohnThomas1]

..............It sounds strange to say, but I'd agree with that statement. That was borne of necessity of course, as Duran could and did often box at a distance. Fenech had no such technical skills, and so his bread and butter was getting on top of his oppoenent and smothering him with an avalanche of punches.

Exactly. I'm glad to have such an esteemed observer agree.

[salsanchezfan]

Exactly. I'm glad to have such an esteemed observer agree.


:D

[McGrain]

He's a fun fighter. But horrible.

[JohnThomas1]

He's a fun fighter. But horrible.

Say wot :yikes

[salsanchezfan]

Say wot :yikes


:yikes

[unitas]

the thai beat a former world champion over ten rounds in his pro deb!!

talk about tough matchmaking...

[McGrain]

Say wot :yikes

Horrible - like, pound for pound one of the last guys you would ever want to see in the other corner.

[salsanchezfan]

Horrible - like, pound for pound one of the last guys you would ever want to see in the other corner.



............Honestly, McGrain, the man just shit his pants over there. :lol:

[McGrain]

............Honestly, McGrain, the man just shit his pants over there. :lol:

:lol:

[JohnThomas1]

Horrible - like, pound for pound one of the last guys you would ever want to see in the other corner.

Phew, totally agreed. He is the most intense fighter i may have ever seen. Actually he is closer to Chavez than Duran, but again with more physicality and agression. Chavez was crisper and a bit more refined in ways.

People chuckle but i maintain Fenech was a good chance of beating Gomez at 122, and indeed giving any Feather hell. I would put $500 on him over Pedroza in a heartbeat, and that's saying something. He would more than match him in filth, and kill him for strength and ferocity.

[McGrain]

Phew, totally agreed. He is the most intense fighter i may have ever seen. Actually he is closer to Chavez than Duran, but again with more physicality and agression. Chavez was crisper and a bit more refined in ways.

I am really looking forward to seeing more of him.

It's not like I don't know Fenech at all, just that I don't know him that well - which used to be true of Payakaroon. It's funny, you get nearer the bottom of one fighter, and then you find out about another one you want to see about.

[TommyV]

Was it Lupe Pintor that fought Johnny Owen. Watching that fight still upsets me to this day.

[McGrain]

Was it Lupe Pintor that fought Johnny Owen. Watching that fight still upsets me to this day.

Yes indeed, that's a horrible fucking fight.

Owen's people and Pintor were in touch after the tragedy, fair play to them all. Owen's people actually used to fax him pre-fight to wish him good luck.

Rest in peace that man.

[TommyV]

Yes indeed, that's a horrible fucking fight.

Owen's people and Pintor were in touch after the tragedy, fair play to them all. Owen's people actually used to fax him pre-fight to wish him good luck.

Rest in peace that man.

Makes me sick just watching him fall after that final knockdown, you knew he was gone there and then.

RIP.

[Flea Man]

Full fight for those who haven't seen it. Samart's lateral movement is beautiful.

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I can't find any info on the Netrnoi fight, I can barely find on any info on him. Anyone seen him fight?

[steve w]

Having seen the Pintor tape, I concede Payakaroon was better than I gave him credit for, I was at the Fenech fight and and at the time thought he was hopeless, but looking again on supplied video, Samart was completely overwhelmed, and he fought bravely taking blows that other fighters would have retired on, apologies for denigrating him in other post.

[El Bujia]

Payakaroon was at the end of his ropes in the sport by the time of the Fenech fight due to weight-draining and a general waning interest in it, not to mention Fenech was just an awful matchup for him.

[Flea Man]

Having seen the Pintor tape, I concede Payakaroon was better than I gave him credit for, I was at the Fenech fight and and at the time thought he was hopeless, but looking again on supplied video, Samart was completely overwhelmed, and he fought bravely taking blows that other fighters would have retired on, apologies for denigrating him in other post.

No probs :good He took a horrendous beating against Jeff, but the Thai was known for his exceptional bravery.

Payakaroon was at the end of his ropes in the sport by the time of the Fenech fight due to weight-draining and a general waning interest in it, not to mention Fenech was just an awful matchup for him.

Who do you see Samart matching up well against? How does he fare against the best 122lb fighters of the last 15 years or so, Barrera/MAB/Vasquez/Rafa? Would Izzy fair any better than Meza?

I maintain that he could've made more of a contest of it with Fenech with his legs underneath him ;-) Not much more mind.

[My2Sense]

However - i've also heard the occasional rumble that it was fixed. With the title technically vacant going into the bout, it is true that Pintor had less to lose than would otherwise have been the case - anyone hear anything about this?

I've never heard anything like that before - and that KO looks pretty damn legit to me.

Any opinions on Payakaroon more generally are very welcome.

He was an amateur star and was being groomed for big things right from the moment he turned pro (hence the reason he was put in with an ex-champ in his pro debut). He was an obvious talent, but seems to have bit off more than he could chew against Fenech, and never really recovered (mentally or physically) from that brutal KO.

[Flea Man]

He never boxed amateur as far as I know M2S.

He was a four-weight Lumpinee Muay Thai champ (105lbs-126lbs IIRC) with numerous wins over Chitalada, and was known for his bravery in taking on bigger opponents (like Dieselnoi)

His debut opponent, Netrnoi is someone I'm looking to find out more about, but at 4'11 and having suffered losses to quality opposition, I can see why they weren't worried about putting Samart in with him.

He'd already had over a hundred fights by the time he fought Fenech, so it's no surprise he went back to kickboxing and only made another brief appearance in International Boxing (and he'd been competing in Muay Thai even during his pro boxing career)

[steve w]

Fenech recently stated that no matter how great Manny is, he has no doubts that he would have beaten him at feather, and somehow, he has a case. Look at Fenech's feather resume and it is impressive, and having seen yesterday the Payakaroon tape, he was awesome.

[Flea Man]

Well, Fenech would certainly have less trouble finding Manny @ 126 ;-)

Glad you liked the Payakaroon footage steve :good Maybe you know realise I'm not a complete mentalist :D

How does everyone see Samart Vs Rafa/Izzy/Nishioka?

[steve w]

I pretty much respect all posts on this site. we all love boxing, I was just thrown by your nomination of Samart against such great orthodox boxers. I look forward to your contributions snd figure you were mischavios there, as I am aware your knowledge of the sport is greater than mine, but hey, we all have opinions.

[Flea Man]

My knowledge of the sport is greater than no ones mate :good You've already schooled me on Fenechs early career :thumbsup

[werety]

Payakaroon I felt got by in boxing on pure talent. He never really honed his technique nearly as much as he did for Muay Thai. Pretty amazing how good of a boxer he was though.

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[Flea Man]

He's pretty damn good throughout that fight, though Meza gets as frustrated by getting called as being knocked down (when he slips) as he does with Samarts style.

Unlike most Thai converts, Payakaroon was a fantastic mover. Some of the most beautiful lateral movement/footwork I've ever seen.

Fantastic finish though, as the video shows above.