naz....hardest hitter....??

[bigG]

...has there ever been a featherweight who hit harder than naseem hamed.....???....

[Nemesis]

No, and by a good distance too.

[Manassa]

...has there ever been a featherweight who hit harder than naseem hamed.....???....

Possibly not, although there have been more damaging fighters. Saddler was probably not far off in terms of power, but was more punishing; he'd tear skin and break bones; Hamed was a concusser, Saddler was a devourer.

[Vantage_West]

the guy was adamn flywieght aswell...maybe becuase he grew into his new body instead of other who blow than just try to get a title at another wieght.

[Jack]

Can we include the 130lb division in this too? With all divisions splintering like crazy, I think it's fair too. If you can...

It's still early to say, but I think Edwin Valero hits harder. Sadly, I expect him to be forced into retirement (at best), if he ever fights Manny Pacquiao.

Valero is knocking people out cold, with relatively weak looking punches. If he stops more fighters like Mosquera, he will be the hardest hitter at "featherweight".

By the way, I do think he could fight at featherweight. It's just that the division is dead compared, so that's another reason I choose to nominate him.

[young griffo]

Danny Lopez comes close.

[buzzsaw]

Danny Lopez
Alexis Arguello

[NickHudson]

Youve got to be kidding. From what I have seen Naz is in another planet for 1 punch KOs...

Danny Lopez comes close.

[young griffo]

Youve got to be kidding. From what I have seen Naz is in another planet for 1 punch KOs...
No I'm not kidding.
Lopez scored 39 stoppages out of 42 victories which is a higher KO percentage than Hamed had I believe,plus he did it against a higher calibre of opponent than Naz ever did.Lopez KO'd top fighters like Ruben Olivares,Art Hafey,Chuco Castillo,David Kotey,Mike Ayala,and Octavio Gomez.
Hamed looked devastating scoring one punch KO's over various European level spuds and past their prime fighters like Kevin Kelley, Billy Hardy or smaller ones like Vuyani Bunyu yet give him a sturdy fighter like Barrera,Soto,McCullough,or even Paul Ingle and the one punch blow-outs seemed to diminish somewhat.
For power AND precision Hamed probably edges Lopez but for sheer power I'm sure it's very close.

[janitor]

I could suggest Terry McGovern.

[young griffo]

I could suggest Terry McGovern.
I've only seen footage of his fight with Gan's but he was a buzzsaw in the ring by the looks of it.

Out of curiosity do you think that fight was on the level Janitor?

I've heard the rumours but it appeared to me that McGovern simply overwhelmed Gans in that fight,as he floored him multiple times and Gans kept getting up which I don't think you'd do if you were throwing the fight.

I found the footage didn't back up the myth surrounding this fight.

[Sweet Science]

For his size Naseem had very strong powerful legs, which I think were a source from which he drew his power and leverage. He was freakishly powerful and definitley the hardest hitting bantamweight and featherweight ever.

Most people outside England never saw him in his prime (1996), and only saw him post Kevin Kelly when he had detereated tremendously due to lack of training which was mainly down to his silly ego and him thinking he just needed to turn up to win.

People say Barrera exposed him, this was not the case. He had slipped so far by then that he was waiting to be taken. The Naseem Hamed that beat Steve Robinson and Said Lawal would have took Barrera out Just like Junior Jones did. I know people will say that aside from Barrera he never faced a great fighter, but watch him in his prime he would have been a legend if he hadn't let his ego turn him into a has been.

[young griffo]

For his size Naseem had very strong powerful legs, which I think were a source from which he drew his power and leverage. He was freakishly powerful and definitley the hardest hitting bantamweight and featherweight ever.

Most people outside England never saw him in his prime (1996), and only saw him post Kevin Kelly when he had detereated tremendously due to lack of training which was mainly down to his silly ego and him thinking he just needed to turn up to win.

People say Barrera exposed him, this was not the case. He had slipped so far by then that he was waiting to be taken. The Naseem Hamed that beat Steve Robinson and Said Lawal would have took Barrera out Just like Junior Jones did. I know people will say that aside from Barrera he never faced a great fighter, but watch him in his prime he would have been a legend if he hadn't let his ego turn him into a has been.
I don't believe that for one second.

I think the reason Hamed's performance dropped off wasn't that he'd slipped (at 22 or 23 years old with zero tough fights...please) but simply because he had stepped his competiton up and his opponents no longer were overawed by his bizarre style,and realized that Naz'z balance was poor and he was there to be hit (as seen in the Kevin Kelley fight).

Hamed's ego was always out of control hence I don't see it as the primary reason for his downfall,more the fact that his style didn't befuddle the top fighters anymore and once Barrera beat him he didn't have the motivation to dedicate himself to boxing anymore.

Still he was fun to watch and boxings poorer without him imo.

[Sonny's jab]

For his size Naseem had very strong powerful legs, which I think were a source from which he drew his power and leverage. He was freakishly powerful and definitley the hardest hitting bantamweight and featherweight ever.

Most people outside England never saw him in his prime (1996), and only saw him post Kevin Kelly when he had detereated tremendously due to lack of training which was mainly down to his silly ego and him thinking he just needed to turn up to win.

People say Barrera exposed him, this was not the case. He had slipped so far by then that he was waiting to be taken. The Naseem Hamed that beat Steve Robinson and Said Lawal would have took Barrera out Just like Junior Jones did. I know people will say that aside from Barrera he never faced a great fighter, but watch him in his prime he would have been a legend if he hadn't let his ego turn him into a has been.

I think the Kevin Kelley fight was the real beginning of the end for Naseem.
Early Naz was slick like Herol Graham, with monster power, but as he got more and more confident he had so much ego that he neglected to box and just went in there too complacent. He wanted to thrill and entertain and show disdain for his opponent just a bit too much, and no one can do that at the highest level. A fighter needs to use his skills and develop them to be the best in the world and remain so.

Hamed got to the point where he believed he didn't even need his skills. I think the Kelley fight actually made him believe he was invincible, and he lapped up the praise for the fight being exciting. Instead of being concerned that he got hit too much and dropped, I guess he just saw it as inevitable that he'd always win, because he was a "legend" and not a mortal human.

Hamed is a lesson to all that too much hype and showmanship and ballyhoo and talk can get in the way. The guy didn't even drink or do drugs, and I doubt he played around with too many women, he lived basically within the bounds of being respectable muslim. But his sheer ego and over-confidence made him forget what got him there in the first place. By the time he fought Barrera he was relying only on his power and the assumption that his opponent would bow to his superiority. The kid's arrogance got the better of him.

[Nemesis]

I don't believe that for one second.

I think the reason Hamed's performance dropped off wasn't that he'd slipped (at 22 or 23 years old with zero tough fights...please) but simply because he had stepped his competiton up and his opponents no longer were overawed by his bizarre style,and realized that Naz'z balance was poor and he was there to be hit (as seen in the Kevin Kelley fight).

Hamed's ego was always out of control hence I don't see it as the primary reason for his downfall,more the fact that his style didn't befuddle the top fighters anymore and once Barrera beat him he didn't have the motivation to dedicate himself to boxing anymore.

Still he was fun to watch and boxings poorer without him imo.
bullshit :good

[JohnThomas1]

I think the Kevin Kelley fight was the real beginning of the end for Naseem.
Early Naz was slick like Herol Graham, with monster power, but as he got more and more confident he had so much ego that he neglected to box and just went in there too complacent. He wanted to thrill and entertain and show disdain for his opponent just a bit too much, and no one can do that at the highest level. A fighter needs to use his skills and develop them to be the best in the world and remain so.

Hamed got to the point where he believed he didn't even need his skills. I think the Kelley fight actually made him believe he was invincible, and he lapped up the praise for the fight being exciting. Instead of being concerned that he got hit too much and dropped, I guess he just saw it as inevitable that he'd always win, because he was a "legend" and not a mortal human.

Hamed is a lesson to all that too much hype and showmanship and ballyhoo and talk can get in the way. The guy didn't even drink or do drugs, and I doubt he played around with too many women, he lived basically within the bounds of being respectable muslim. But his sheer ego and over-confidence made him forget what got him there in the first place. By the time he fought Barrera he was relying only on his power and the assumption that his opponent would bow to his superiority. The kid's arrogance got the better of him.

Fantastic post Sonny, a ripper.

[Sweet Science]

I think the Kevin Kelley fight was the real beginning of the end for Naseem.
Early Naz was slick like Herol Graham, with monster power, but as he got more and more confident he had so much ego that he neglected to box and just went in there too complacent. He wanted to thrill and entertain and show disdain for his opponent just a bit too much, and no one can do that at the highest level. A fighter needs to use his skills and develop them to be the best in the world and remain so.

Hamed got to the point where he believed he didn't even need his skills. I think the Kelley fight actually made him believe he was invincible, and he lapped up the praise for the fight being exciting. Instead of being concerned that he got hit too much and dropped, I guess he just saw it as inevitable that he'd always win, because he was a "legend" and not a mortal human.

Hamed is a lesson to all that too much hype and showmanship and ballyhoo and talk can get in the way. The guy didn't even drink or do drugs, and I doubt he played around with too many women, he lived basically within the bounds of being respectable muslim. But his sheer ego and over-confidence made him forget what got him there in the first place. By the time he fought Barrera he was relying only on his power and the assumption that his opponent would bow to his superiority. The kid's arrogance got the better of him.


I agree with all that 100%

and Very few people outside of England saw the real Hamed.

[mcvey]

...has there ever been a featherweight who hit harder than naseem hamed.....???....
The nearest to him would be Sandy Saddler ,imo.

[mcvey]

Danny Lopez
Alexis Arguello
Good choices,both had fine one shot power.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Azumah was a powerful man and powerful puncher as well with either hand. Azumah toyed with a higher level of competition than many times holding back his power to torment the likes of Martinez even more.

The thing about Naz's power when I saw him was it was difficult to tell why it came from perhaps his thighs.

[Doppleganger]

I agree with all that 100%

and Very few people outside of England saw the real Hamed. You're right. I think Naz basically became 'power happy'. He knew he had God given power (in fact he used to say it came directly from Allah himself) and so he stopped being impossible to hit and focused on just trying to knock his opponents out, often in a predicted round Ali-style. That was the beginning of the end, not the Kelly fight and not because he stepped up in competition.

Had Naz stayed at Bamtamweight and had stayed focused I think he would have been a top 10 Bantamweight of all time. Even at Featherweight (where he was very short) he would have been an ATG had he kept his elusive style and focus. Sadly he became caught up in his own hype, didn't spar or train properly and tried to knock out opponents with almost every punch.

[Sweet Science]

You're right. I think Naz basically became 'power happy'. He knew he had God given power (in fact he used to say it came directly from Allah himself) and so he stopped being impossible to hit and focused on just trying to knock his opponents out, often in a predicted round Ali-style. That was the beginning of the end, not the Kelly fight and not because he stepped up in competition.

Had Naz stayed at Bamtamweight and had stayed focused I think he would have been a top 10 Bantamweight of all time. Even at Featherweight (where he was very short) he would have been an ATG had he kept his elusive style and focus. Sadly he became caught up in his own hype, didn't spar or train properly and tried to knock out opponents with almost every punch.

Exactamundo brother.

Doppleganger, you speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[bigG]

....i remember naz fondly and really think that a prime naz, ie the one before he started believeing his own hype, would have troubled any bantamweight or featherweight in the world....manny steward said he hit like a middleweight, which is some power.....

[achillesthegreat]

I rank Naz as one of the heaviest punchers this sport has ever seen. His power was concussive and debilitating. His record speaks for itself and dare you challenge it then you can watch the tape to see the victims.

Naz was a featherweight because he didn't train like a Hopkins or a Mayweather. If he did then he would be bantam, maybe super bantam.

The reason NAz couldn't really go to super feather or lightweight was because he was already in his third division.

[achillesthegreat]

There is no doubt Naz stopped training like he should, forgot about what made him great technically and bombed away. Fists that were wrecking balls, his rocket launchers he called them.

Naz is a lower weight Tyson. Like Tyson lost to Holy, Naz lost to MAB. Neither were prime but the upsets were special performances where prime or not, it didn't matter. We must not forget or discredit what they did before this.

NAZ literally dominated a division and has ownership to something like six belts, the major and minor ones.

[Sweet Science]

Achilles, do you agree that a prime Hamed from 95-96' would have most likely beaten the great Barrera?

[PowerPuncher]

Naz was also more of a natural bantamweight and could have stayed at 118 or 122 for his whole career if he wanted too

[janitor]

[quote=young griffo]I've only seen footage of his fight with Gan's but he was a buzzsaw in the ring by the looks of it.

Out of curiosity do you think that fight was on the level Janitor?

This is a controvertial question and it will continue to be for all time.

Like with the Dempsey Flyn fight there is a lot of circumstantial evidence and contemporary testimony to suggest a dive but nothing concrete.


I've heard the rumours but it appeared to me that McGovern simply overwhelmed Gans in that fight,as he floored him multiple times and Gans kept getting up which I don't think you'd do if you were throwing the fight.

I found the footage didn't back up the myth surrounding this fight.


I can see where you are coming from there.

It is conceivable that Gans's pride forced him to put up a bit of a fight and get up a couple of times before lying down.

Bottom line is that given the available evidence you should put a question mark above this fight and be open mided to both sides of the argument. The evidence is not substantial enough to suport a concrete conclusion either way.

[Shareef]

There is no doubt that Hamed wasn't at his best by the time he fought Barrera. He had stopped training hard and was completely in his own world of invincibility. Anyone who doesn't believe so they should watch the documentary "Little Prince Big Fight" which documents the events leading up to his fight with MAB. It was all downhill for Hamed once he split with Ingle. A prime Prince would offer a better fight against MAB whether he won or lost that i am certain of. Also i dont' know why he gets all the hate he lost a decision which was lopsided but its not like he got knocked out or anything it could have been much worse than it was.

[achillesthegreat]

Achilles, do you agree that a prime Hamed from 95-96' would have most likely beaten the great Barrera?
Unfortunately not. That Barrera was sensational. At times punch perfect.

Earlier on, MAB was a different fighter and yes I do think Hamed could beat that fighter. MAB was too ballsy, even open and Hamed was more scientific as he delivered accurate and devastating cannonballs at your chin AND body! I can envision a stoppage as MAB had no B plan. When he brawled he had no B plan. The late MAB boxed and had brawling as a B plan.

[achillesthegreat]

I think the Kevin Kelley fight was the real beginning of the end for Naseem.
Early Naz was slick like Herol Graham, with monster power, but as he got more and more confident he had so much ego that he neglected to box and just went in there too complacent. He wanted to thrill and entertain and show disdain for his opponent just a bit too much, and no one can do that at the highest level. A fighter needs to use his skills and develop them to be the best in the world and remain so.

Hamed got to the point where he believed he didn't even need his skills. I think the Kelley fight actually made him believe he was invincible, and he lapped up the praise for the fight being exciting. Instead of being concerned that he got hit too much and dropped, I guess he just saw it as inevitable that he'd always win, because he was a "legend" and not a mortal human.

Hamed is a lesson to all that too much hype and showmanship and ballyhoo and talk can get in the way. The guy didn't even drink or do drugs, and I doubt he played around with too many women, he lived basically within the bounds of being respectable muslim. But his sheer ego and over-confidence made him forget what got him there in the first place. By the time he fought Barrera he was relying only on his power and the assumption that his opponent would bow to his superiority. The kid's arrogance got the better of him.
That's a beauty.

[mcvey]

There is no doubt Naz stopped training like he should, forgot about what made him great technically and bombed away. Fists that were wrecking balls, his rocket launchers he called them.

Naz is a lower weight Tyson. Like Tyson lost to Holy, Naz lost to MAB. Neither were prime but the upsets were special performances where prime or not, it didn't matter. We must not forget or discredit what they did before this.

NAZ literally dominated a division and has ownership to something like six belts, the major and minor ones.
Hamed had freakish power for his weight ,but "great technically"no way! he was off balance when he missed punches,had sloppy foot work and kept his chin up in the air ,the signature of Ingle fighters,his reflexes and power got him out of trouble but when he began to beleive the hyperbole and bull shit he lost a little of those imponderables ,like Jones Jnr and to some extent Ali he lacked some of the basics,Barrera took him to school,and I was heartily glad he did,Hamed nauseated me as a human being,Im not second guessing his decline ,I had a good bet on MAB.Im personally biased as to his character ,but beleive Im objective abut him pugilistically ,from what Ive read about him SRR was a shit too but p4p the best.

[achillesthegreat]

Hamed had freakish power for his weight ,but "great technically"no way! he was off balance when he missed punches,had sloppy foot work and kept his chin up in the air ,the signature of Ingle fighters,his reflexes and power got him out of trouble but when he began to beleive the hyperbole and bull shit he lost a little of those imponderables ,like Jones Jnr and to some extent Ali he lacked some of the basics,Barrera took him to school,and I was heartily glad he did,Hamed nauseated me as a human being,Im not second guessing his decline ,I had a good bet on MAB.Im personally biased as to his character ,but beleive Im objective abut him pugilistically ,from what Ive read about him SRR was a shit too but p4p the best.
Technically means two things - it means the technique of a fighters skill and it also means the science behind his game. It depends on the context. In this case I mean both.

Hameds sense of distance and timing was very good. He had very good speed but he wasn't Roy Jones. His accuracy was frightening at times. He had flaws technically but it became crazy by the end of his career. Generally his footwork was good but by the end of his career he was doing crazy shit that saw someone like MAB punching him when neither of his feet were even on the floor.

[Carlos Primera]

Danny Lopez
Alexis Arguello
:good
yup,
<== Arguello carried his power well up to as high as 140, though it was considerably diminished by then.

edit: hahaha damn did'nt notice this thread was a month old. got carried away after this was linked in the pac vs. hamed discussion in the general forum

[Beebs]

I think the reason Hamed's performance dropped off wasn't that he'd slipped (at 22 or 23 years old with zero tough fights...please) but simply because he had stepped his competiton up and his opponents

Well keep in mind that "opponent" was a prime MAB, no shame in losing to him, not an ounce. It's not like he stepped up and lost to an iffy fighter, and kept losing. He lost to a great, and then quit, so the rest is speculation.

I think Saddler hit as hard or harder at Featherweight, but nobody did as a Bantamweight

[apollack]

Say what you want about Naz's overall skills, but I don't think anyone ever had as much one punch power at 126 as Naseem Hamed.

[Duodenum]

I wouldn't rule out Bobby Chacon or Ruben Olivares, although I tend to lean towards Little Red. It was a lack of handspeed, not punching power, which led to his defeats against Sanchez.