Will Pacquiao v Diaz do big PPV numbers?

[fitzgeraldz]

I'm anxious to see how this card pans out ... it has a weak undercard ...

I would like to see Steven Lueveno v Mario Santiago but the other fights aren't worth seeing ...

Tye Fields v Monte Barrett
Humberto Soto v Francisco Lorenzo

I'm wondering what fights they would televise but other than the main event - this fight isn't really worth it.

I know i'm going to order just based on the main event ... but I can't stand these weak PPV undercards ... its getting worse -

I liked the undercard of Taylor v Pavlik II ... but the other PPV cards this year were very weak.

[peter5]

Well, it is true, for what we have to pay for the main event, the undercard should be stacked, more often than not!

[superchile]

no way im paying for this crap

[sam_theman]

In England fortunately its free like the Cotto - Margarito fight :D
Don't think it will do massive numbers in US though

[4Rounder]

Crap fight with crap undercard with a paper belt on the line. Just because its Pacquiao it will do around 200k buys, which is not that high.

[Thread Stealer]

No, it won't do very good numbers.

[NickBarker]

I'll admit to being curious about the Fields/Barrett fight. But overall, you guys are right: this is a weak undercard. Furthermore, Arum does not seem to be doing much to improve this. It is likely that the Cotto/Margarito undercard will be stocked full of display fights, rather than competitive, important matchups. It's truly disappointing.

[LB3000]

In England fortunately its free like the Cotto - Margarito fight :D
Don't think it will do massive numbers in US though Not exactly free unless you have (Virgin XL) as we have to pay a monthly subscription fee for setanta. But it is great value with all the fights they will be showing. :D

[smoochp]

No, it won't do very good numbers.
I hear u again, because it wont. But if it does he is the man no denying that besides Oscar and TITO

[aillmatic]

maybe 180-200k off Pacquiao's name. I won't be ordering it.

[PacDbest]

I agree with the undercards. I don't want to see Ty fields and Luevano. They're boring.

They should've put Donaire, AJ banal, Concepcion or Victor Ortiz on it.

But it doesn't matter we still Order it. It's Party time whenever Pac fights.

This fight will still sell. Nobody really cared about undercards in the PPV fight. It's still the main events that's sells. Why it will sell??? This is Pac's 1st fight at Lightweight. No Pinoy ever gets a Lightweight belt. The guys he's fighting has a perfect style for a Great fight. There will be no running. It will all depend also in how they hype the Countdown shows. David Diaz seems to have the personallity and Charisma to capture more audience. He entertained the Pinoy Crowds in Berkeley with his Articulate speeches and sense of Humor.

I expect it to sell no lower that 350K. It could break the 400K mark because Diaz can speak English and him and Pac can really generate mainstream interest with guesting with ESPN, Foxsports and any Nightime talkshows.

[dangerousity]

It should do over 300k quite easily. Pac-Solis did 225k and that was a worthless fight. This is a fight for a belt at 135, its history making and eveyrone is anxious to see how Pac does at the new weight.

[eze]

Unsure on the numbers probably 300k. Give or take.

[Miles5149]

I agree with the undercards. I don't want to see Ty fields and Luevano. They're boring.

They should've put Donaire, AJ banal, Concepcion or Victor Ortiz on it.

But it doesn't matter we still Order it. It's Party time whenever Pac fights.

This fight will still sell. Nobody really cared about undercards in the PPV fight. It's still the main events that's sells. Why it will sell??? This is Pac's 1st fight at Lightweight. No Pinoy ever gets a Lightweight belt. The guys he's fighting has a perfect style for a Great fight. There will be no running. It will all depend also in how they hype the Countdown shows. David Diaz seems to have the personallity and Charisma to capture more audience. He entertained the Pinoy Crowds in Berkeley with his Articulate speeches and sense of Humor.

I expect it to sell no lower that 350K. It could break the 400K mark because Diaz can speak English and him and Pac can really generate mainstream interest with guesting with ESPN, Foxsports and any Nightime talkshows.

I agree, it all depends on David Diaz and the countdown shows. I read the article about David Diaz and he seemed very intelligent and charismatic and if they hype this up right enough it could do a lot better than most would think.

[Silvermags]

Crap fight with crap undercard with a paper belt on the line. Just because its Pacquiao it will do around 200k buys, which is not that high.

Comments like coming from a certifed pac hater this isn't new....like saying or imlplying that pac lost to jmm 2x :patsch

[RafaelGonzal]

it wont do big numbers many casual fans dont know who Diaz is or that the fight is even taking place.

[IsaL]

Manny's stock has gone down a bit after not being able to put away a very old Barrera and getting a gift against JMM.

[Ramshall1]

Not as big as a fight with JMM.

[IsaL]

whats good uliuli? i think that the fight with diaz will bring the best outta pac and get his stock back up. its kinda hard to ko an old barrera running and avoiding exchanges. the thing is, when barrera did exchange with manny he got the better of it (2nd fight). are u gonna order the fight?

No. I expect Manny to beat the turd out of Diaz. I'm not much into spending my money on fights I know the outcome. Now boxing is a sport with surprises, but it is very unlikely D. Diaz will pull the upset. Diaz is the weakest Champion and went neck to neck with a shot Morales.

[psychopath]

It should do over 300k quite easily. Pac-Solis did 225k and that was a worthless fight. This is a fight for a belt at 135, its history making and eveyrone is anxious to see how Pac does at the new weight.

I guess it would sell better than Pac/Solis . . . so maybe above 300 buys.

[dangerousity]

No. I expect Manny to beat the turd out of Diaz. I'm not much into spending my money on fights I know the outcome. Now boxing is a sport with surprises, but it is very unlikely D. Diaz will pull the upset. Diaz is the weakest Champion and went neck to neck with a shot Morales.

And beat a Sta.Cruz who beat Casamayor.

[BigBone]

This card will do above average PPV numbers (250k) but will steal at least 100k from Cotto-Margarito following it the very next month.

I think that the two Top Rank shows will do around 450k together which would be good for one card... but for 2 shows - and the GREAT Cotto-Margarito getting the lower numbers - it's pretty bad... truly, both fights are for the masses, PacMan-Diaz is not PPV worthy, Cotto-Margarito is but Arum could make millions of fans showing it on free HBO, but in the end, HBO will get his usual hardcore fans' money, and those non-hardcore fans who'll buy only one PPV in the summer will waste their money on an early PacMan KO and Cotto-Margarito will de very disappointing numbers...

[Silvermags]

Manny's stock has gone down a bit after not being able to put away a very old Barrera and getting a gift against JMM.

You have to check your memory. The judge admitted he made a mistake and because of that mistake JMM was gifted a DRAW.

Sourgraping to till the LAST minute...:patsch Grow up and move on with your life :hey

"Don't turn apples to oranges... "

[Sandmanl337]

I say around $300K.. The undercard is weak, yes, but I'm still paying for this fight, shitty undercard ir not.. I think it'll do more than people except.. You know some of them Pac haters will be ordering it :)..

[Scar]

Won't do very good, probably something around 200-250k. If Morales vs Pacquiao made 350k then don't expect this to do insane numbers.

[IsaL]

You have to check your memory. The judge admitted he made a mistake and because of that mistake JMM was gifted a DRAW.

Sourgraping to till the LAST minute...:patsch Grow up and move on with your life :hey

"Don't turn apples to oranges... "

WTF r u talking about?

[theunderdog]

i think it will do worse than all of all of pac's ppvs. diaz is no marquez, barrera, or morales

[cardstars]

I will be honest; I am VERY curious how Pac looks at the weight so I will probably split the cost with some friends. Otherwise yes; the undercard sucks imo

[Hatesrats]

Be curious to see what The Diaz/Morales Fight did...
compared to What The Diaz/Manny fight will do.
I'm still not convinced Manny can pull numbers without a NAME (Mexican) Opponent!

This has "*******" written all over it tho.

[Jose FM]

I think itll do very well, Pac has fought worse and done very well, so i dont see it being any different this time around.

[saul_ir34]

YOu guys forget that on the Solis fight Arce was fighting on the main undercard with Mijares.
That pretty much drew half of the total PPVs. I remember the people around here rented it to watch Arce not Pac. Most people dont like fights were they know the outcome.

I think it hits 200K buys. I hope it does lower so Bob realizes not every fight Manny does now has to be PPV.

[Silvermags]

WTF r u talking about?

"getting a gift against jmm":patsch :patsch :patsch

it was jmm who was gifted by a draw coz of the mistake of the judge :hey :hey :hey

[dangerousity]

YOu guys forget that on the Solis fight Arce was fighting on the main undercard with Mijares.
That pretty much drew half of the total PPVs. I remember the people around here rented it to watch Arce not Pac. Most people dont like fights were they know the outcome.

I think it hits 200K buys. I hope it does lower so Bob realizes not every fight Manny does now has to be PPV.

Half? Mijares before he was famous couldnt draw 30k if he was main event, even with Arce.

[CJLightweight]

"getting a gift against jmm":patsch :patsch :patsch

it was jmm who was gifted by a draw coz of the mistake of the judge :hey :hey :hey

you're taking the thread a left turn here you know...stick to the topic.

anyway..250k buys to 300k is my prediction, there are lots of filipinos in chicago after all, and perhaps every filipino in the US would order this fight. Championship fights are important for them no matter who the opponent is

[4Rounder]

This fight has no business being on PPV. There are bigger and more meaningful fights oh regular HBO and Showtime.

[Galileo Galilei]

250,000 seems like a reasonable over/under target.

But I aint gonna be one them.

The undercard sucks nasty ass and the main event isn't ppv worthy at all.

I hope this card bombs majorly.

Ppvs need to be at a higher standard.

If we keep buying junk we'll keep getting junk.

[fitzgeraldz]

I don't think that this will do anywhere near 200k buys ... I think that Pac can't produce that many numbers ... Diaz isn't considered a real Mexican and is more American than anything ... add to that, Diaz doesn't have a big fan base himself ... his name alone can't produce 20k buys ... he has never headlined a venue before ... never seen him on B.A.D ... or W.C.B ... I think he was on shobox getting beat by Kendal Holt a couple years back.

I'm wondering how Arum will expect to sell this fight ... he can't make any appearances - because no one knows who he is ... so an appearance on ESPN is out of the question.

There aren't any notable fighters on the undercard ... this fight is going to tank.

[boxbox]

good enough to say Pac can still draw crowds

[fitzgeraldz]

Putting butts in seats ... is a totally different ball game than selling a fight on PPV.

[boxbox]

Putting butts in seats ... is a totally different ball game than selling a fight on PPV.

which is better then?

[fitzgeraldz]

PPV buys is better ... you get more money ... if this was a WCB venue then it would be about putting butts in seats ... but PPV is all about sales --

[boxbox]

PPV buys is better ... you get more money ... if this was a WCB venue then it would be about putting butts in seats ... but PPV is all about sales --

ok:good

[pelican]

everything that involves pac have the tendency to get overblown. hes a damn big draw.

[Arriba]

******* FTW.

[Lampley]

It'll do OK, but I won't buy it. And I bought Pac/Larios a couple years back, if that tells you anything.

Manny's best days are behind him, IMO, and Diaz is not a legitimate champion at 135.

[elgrancampeon]

I know for sure im not buying it. I bought Marquez-Pac 2 and it was worth it but this is a joke of a card as a whole.

[Hawks28]

I'm anxious to see how this card pans out ... it has a weak undercard ...

I would like to see Steven Lueveno v Mario Santiago but the other fights aren't worth seeing ...

Tye Fields v Monte Barrett
Humberto Soto v Francisco Lorenzo

I'm wondering what fights they would televise but other than the main event - this fight isn't really worth it.

I know i'm going to order just based on the main event ... but I can't stand these weak PPV undercards ... its getting worse -

I liked the undercard of Taylor v Pavlik II ... but the other PPV cards this year were very weak.

I also liked the undercard of Taylor/Pavlik, and that is the only PPV I've bought this year. No way in hell will I buy this card. Tye Fields vs Monte Barrett should be on Wednesday night fights. Luevanos pretty good, as is Soto, but their matchups dont interest me at all. I dont think this card will do huge numbers, but it should do fairly well, just because of Pacquiao.

[muzkabeatz]

Nah some of the haters here that says the fight will not sell etc. are not PPV buyers as well. I know they'll be cramming for free internet telecast come fight night.

[hmi]

No. I expect Manny to beat the turd out of Diaz. I'm not much into spending my money on fights I know the outcome. Now boxing is a sport with surprises, but it is very unlikely D. Diaz will pull the upset. Diaz is the weakest Champion and went neck to neck with a shot Morales. On the contrary, now is the time for you to put your money in a sure win. Bet $5,000 or more on Pacquiao!

[saul_ir34]

Half? Mijares before he was famous couldnt draw 30k if he was main event, even with Arce.

I never said Mijares. This was Mijares's coming out fight.
But you have to admit Arce was on his way to superstardom if he wasnt already. I know in Mexico he was doing Reality shows. The people around here always talked about him because he was very entertaining and charismatic on TV.
That night all i remember was "Isnt Pac fighting tonight too? Who is Mijares?"

If you think Arce had nothing to do with those numbers then you are just a Pac hugger and lying to yourself.

[divac]

I never said Mijares. This was Mijares's coming out fight.
But you have to admit Arce was on his way to superstardom if he wasnt already. I know in Mexico he was doing Reality shows. The people around here always talked about him because he was very entertaining and charismatic on TV.
That night all i remember was "Isnt Pac fighting tonight too? Who is Mijares?"

If you think Arce had nothing to do with those numbers then you are just a Pac hugger and lying to yourself.


I think everyone is forgetting that the two PPV's that Manny Pacquiao was involved in that did'nt involve JMM, Morales, or MAB.....in both those PPV's, Pac vs Solis and Pac vs Larios, both those PPV's had not only Acre on them, but imo even more important for the Latino buy, it had Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. on them.

.....both Acre and Chavez have done well enough headlining a PPV all by themselves, that it no longer makes business sense for Arum to burn those guys on a Pac undercard.

In this David Diaz fight, for the first time ever, Pac will be selling that PPV all by his lonesome with no help whatsoever from a Latino name like Chavez or Acre.



I'm not kidding here, I'm being honest. The Pac-Solis fight did about 225k, I say about 100k of that walked the line and ordered it because they would also benefit from seeing Chavez Jr. and Acre.

.....no such thing in Pac vs David Diaz......honestly, I say this fight will do in the range of 150k, and I may be giving Pac the benefit of the doubt, it may be a little bit less.



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl at Pacdbest for predicting that it will do above 350k, the MAB and Morales fights did'nt even do that!:lol: :nut

[muzkabeatz]

^

You really love PacD do you?

[Silvermags]

Come to think of it. It does not matter if it does not hit 100 k or 250k as long as pac wins. Wether it hits 5k or 350k. All of us would not get a single cent for whatever the results will be.

So for those saying that pac would not hit this or hit that!? WHAT's the big fuss?! or is it pure and simply jelousy that pac will be getting an "X" amount from PPV and you or your favorite boxer is no where to be found?!

BTW, it's ok there are no BELTS for the best PPV boxer!!!

[divac]

Come to think of it. It does not matter if it does not hit 100 k or 250k as long as pac wins. Wether it hits 5k or 350k. All of us would not get a single cent for whatever the results will be.

So for those saying that pac would not hit this or hit that!? WHAT's the big fuss?! or is it pure and simply jelousy that pac will be getting an "X" amount from PPV and you or your favorite boxer is no where to be found?!

BTW, it's ok there are no BELTS for the best PPV boxer!!!

As long as we dont have to hear from people like yourself that Pac is the draw..........

.....the JMM-Pac fight did over 500K, and all we hear from Pactards is that Pac is the draw......

......this fight right here will tell us exaclty what kind of draw Pac is all by his lonesome!:yep

[Spitbucket]

This fight seems to be absent from the must-see list of a lot of boxing fans for obvious reasons but as a Pac fan I'm personally looking forward to it.

Pac always makes good fights and from a historical perspective this fight is very intresting. Pac will be one of the few boxers in history to have won a belt in at least 4 divisions!

Of course I'm jumping the gun a little and the title is not in the bag yet but, with all due respect to DIaz, this is just a formality!

[divac]

This fight seems to be absent from the must-see list of a lot of boxing fans for obvious reasons but as a Pac fan I'm personally looking forward to it.

Pac always makes good fights and from a historical perspective this fight is very intresting. Pac will be one of the few boxers in history to have won a belt in at least 4 divisions!

Of course I'm jumping the gun a little and the title is not in the bag yet but, with all due respect to DIaz, this is just a formality!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This is what I say to the boxing history you're talking about.
Winning World titles in multiple divisions nowdays is just of little significance, and the Pac-David Diaz paper title matchup is a prime example of the reason.

Hey, I like watching Pac myself, but believe me, if I'm free on the Saturday night of the Pac-Diaz fight and decide to buy it, believe me, it wont be because Pac is fighting for boxing history and winning a title in a fourth division.

A shot Erik Morales should have gotten the decision against David Diaz and won a title in a fourth weight class, which goes to show you the significance of the feat nowdays that even shot fighters can move up and win paper titles against the weakest champion in the division!

[CJLightweight]

i've check the undercards on boxrec and i really don't think its such a bad card.

Pac has a HW undercard for the first time, tye fields is a good prospect but no one cares about HW now adays.

Mario Santiago is a live opponent even though luevano is not that exciting i think its still good.

Lorenzo-Soto for the interim WBC 130 title is also a great matchup, both have good records.

i didn't check it all the first time but i'd be tuning in on soto, the luevano fight and pac

[Spitbucket]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: This is what I say to the boxing history you're talking about.
Winning World titles in multiple divisions nowdays is just of little significance, and the Pac-David Diaz paper title matchup is a prime example of the reason.

Hey, I like watching Pac myself, but believe me, if I'm free on the Saturday night of the Pac-Diaz fight and decide to buy it, believe me, it wont be because Pac is fighting for boxing history and winning a title in a fourth division.

A shot Erik Morales should have gotten the decision against David Diaz and won a title in a fourth weight class, which goes to show you the significance of the feat nowdays that even shot fighters can move up and win paper titles against the weakest champion in the division!

I'm already on record saying DIas is a cherry-picked opponent but either way we look at it Pac will be considered a 4 div. titleholder.

The best thing about this fight is the fact that once it's over it'll clear the way for Pac to make some real interesting fights and believe me he will.

[jaco]

tye fields is a good prospect

Tye Fields is a joke, he will get starched by anyone decent.

[Silvermags]

As long as we dont have to hear from people like yourself that Pac is the draw..........

.....the JMM-Pac fight did over 500K, and all we hear from Pactards is that Pac is the draw......

......this fight right here will tell us exaclty what kind of draw Pac is all by his lonesome!:yep

Lonesome or not, as long as pac wins. PAC fans are happy! On the other hand, what draw can JMM have compared to PAC?!
How can JMM draw numbers if his opponets or resume'?.... never mind! It's another topic.

[fitzgeraldz]

It doesn't say much about HW's that are on PPV undercards (of lightweights)

When did it become like this ... HW's are supposed to headline cards ... not be on the undercard, just for that reason its not going to be a good fight.

I bought Pavlik v Taylor II, Pac v JMM II, Tito v Jones, and thats all the PPV fights on HBO this year ...

Out of those the Pavlik v Taylor was the only card that had a good undercard ... with Mijares and Montiel on seperate bouts, along with Pavlik v Taylor ... thats how the PPV card are supposed to be like ... 3 championship fights ... anything else can be on WCB or BAD ...

[Galileo Galilei]

I think everyone is forgetting that the two PPV's that Manny Pacquiao was involved in that did'nt involve JMM, Morales, or MAB.....in both those PPV's, Pac vs Solis and Pac vs Larios, both those PPV's had not only Acre on them, but imo even more important for the Latino buy, it had Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. on them.

.....both Acre and Chavez have done well enough headlining a PPV all by themselves, that it no longer makes business sense for Arum to burn those guys on a Pac undercard.

In this David Diaz fight, for the first time ever, Pac will be selling that PPV all by his lonesome with no help whatsoever from a Latino name like Chavez or Acre.



I'm not kidding here, I'm being honest. The Pac-Solis fight did about 225k, I say about 100k of that walked the line and ordered it because they would also benefit from seeing Chavez Jr. and Acre.

.....no such thing in Pac vs David Diaz......honestly, I say this fight will do in the range of 150k, and I may be giving Pac the benefit of the doubt, it may be a little bit less.



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl at Pacdbest for predicting that it will do above 350k, the MAB and Morales fights did'nt even do that!:lol: :nut


I think you might be setting the buys a bit low at 150,000.

But the rest I agree with.

Arce and JCC jr had a hand in those other ppvs where Pac wasn't fighting one of the Mexican big 3.

I was on the fence with Pac-Solis and the Arce-Mijares fight pushed me to buy it. Pac-Larios had a weak undercard so I skipped on it.

This fight will be a good indicator of what Pac can do all by himself.

But with a less than appealing main event and a putrid undercard I'll skip this one.

[PH|LLA]

I would buy. I'm a big Pac fan and wanna see how he will fare at 135

but like always i will go watch the fight at the bar with some friends

[PacDbest]

This fight will generate more than what's expected. It will benefit from the Cancelation of Mosley-Judah fight. Diehard fans will not be burdened to Pay for this.

Why are you guys saying this Fight is worthless?? Pac is moving up in weight against the ring rated #2. against a natural Lightweight and a former Jr welter fighter. So who's the worthy fight for Pac at 135???

Let's start with Campbell, He's just considered as an inconsistent Contender and close to being called a journeyman just before he beat the overrated Juan Diaz. Campbell who was beaten by Casa years ago. Casa who was really beaten by Sta Cruz. Who beat Sta Cruz??? That's right... The Guy Pac is facing next, David Diaz.

I think HBO countdown will do justice with this when they make the David Diaz story. Just mentioning David is the one who Beat Judah in the Olympic trials is just enough to convinced fans that this fight will be competitive fight and a must buy. Any Pac fight is a must buy if you like exciting fights.

Pac only has 2 PPVs which doesn't sell more than 350K, the Larios and Solis fight. But those are not covered by HBO, not a Championship fight, nO countdown shows. This pac-Diaz is an HBO show. It will sell no less than 350K. I'll bet you.

[kg0208]

This fight will generate more than what's expected. It will benefit from the Cancelation of Mosley-Judah fight. Diehard fans will not be burdened to Pay for this.

Why are you guys saying this Fight is worthless?? Pac is moving up in weight against the ring rated #2. against a natural Lightweight and a former Jr welter fighter. So who's the worthy fight for Pac at 135???

Let's start with Campbell, He's just considered as an inconsistent Contender and close to being called a journeyman just before he beat the overrated Juan Diaz. Campbell who was beaten by Casa years ago. Casa who was really beaten by Sta Cruz. Who beat Sta Cruz??? That's right... The Guy Pac is facing next, David Diaz.

I think HBO countdown will do justice with this when they make the David Diaz story. Just mentioning David is the one who Beat Judah in the Olympic trials is just enough to convinced fans that this fight will be competitive fight and a must buy. Any Pac fight is a must buy if you like exciting fights.

Pac only has 2 PPVs which doesn't sell more than 350K, the Larios and Solis fight. But those are not covered by HBO, not a Championship fight, nO countdown shows. This pac-Diaz is an HBO show. It will sell no less than 350K. I'll bet you.
You mention Diaz's Ring rating as some sort of validation to make Diaz seem like a worthy opponent. Then you immediately bash the guys ranked ahead of him, the number one guy and champion, by telling us what people "think" of them. So the ranking is either validation or unimportant..... Let us stay consistant shall we?

Campbell was considered a top level contender who had trouble with elite level competition. He lost to Casamayor....and? He is the Ring champion, and just beat a 3 belt champion. And if you think J. Diaz was overrated, exactly what has David Diaz accomplished for you to be praising his worthiness? David Diaz already lost to Kendall Holt. He has gone on to do great things....no, no he hasn't (since we are holding it against Campbell that he lost to Casamayor, I figured in fairness we should point out Diaz's loss)

Casmayor? I don't need to defend his status. He's better than David Diaz. He has wins over top level champions and just KO'd another champion. Many think he lost to Santa Cruz (who was leading on all cards by a significant margin before Diaz stopped him)....so? Many think Diaz lost to an old and completely shot Morales.

I just wanted to make sure you got all the info out there....with come consistancy using your own great logical approach.

Now where is Silvermags to tell you that how much Pacquiao makes doesn't matter? Or is that only applicable when someone is saying Pacquiao won't be doing well?

[Hatesrats]

Pacquiao will feel the pressure in this fight, once you reach the plateu that most people are putting Manny on, ANYTHING LESS than spectacular will be looked at as either a slide or him being unfocused and underestimating his opponent. In reality tho, Pacquiao is going to have to fight like the defending "World champion" in this fight, Diaz actualy has nothing to lose and everything to gain in this fight.

It's gonna be a harder fight for Manny than most think.. (Bloodbath)
A clash of heads will change the entire landscape of this fight.

[kg0208]

Pacquiao should be able to beat Diaz by at least 4 rounds.

I don't question Pacquiao's ability to beat Diaz. I just don't like the way some posters tear down other fighters to build up less worthy fighters to make their favorite fighter look better. This fight is what it is. A title fight (paper title) over a tough, big LW, who is not a top level fighter. He is a good fighter, but limited, and we all know that.

[PacDbest]

You mention Diaz's Ring rating as some sort of validation to make Diaz seem like a worthy opponent. Then you immediately bash the guys ranked ahead of him, the number one guy and champion, by telling us what people "think" of them. So the ranking is either validation or unimportant..... Let us stay consistant shall we?

Campbell was considered a top level contender who had trouble with elite level competition. He lost to Casamayor....and? He is the Ring champion, and just beat a 3 belt champion. And if you think J. Diaz was overrated, exactly what has David Diaz accomplished for you to be praising his worthiness? David Diaz already lost to Kendall Holt. He has gone on to do great things....no, no he hasn't (since we are holding it against Campbell that he lost to Casamayor, I figured in fairness we should point out Diaz's loss)

Casmayor? I don't need to defend his status. He's better than David Diaz. He has wins over top level champions and just KO'd another champion. Many think he lost to Santa Cruz (who was leading on all cards by a significant margin before Diaz stopped him)....so? Many think Diaz lost to an old and completely shot Morales.

I just wanted to make sure you got all the info out there....with come consistancy using your own great logical approach.

Now where is Silvermags to tell you that how much Pacquiao makes doesn't matter? Or is that only applicable when someone is saying Pacquiao won't be doing well?

I'm not overrating David D. What I'm trying to say is that David D is not a Bum and will be a Good 1st fight at 135. This also the reason why I want Pac to jump on Hatton the next fight. Coz Pac is already a Legend and he needs to fight guys who is considered a Legend or already Beat a Legend. At Least David D already beat one in Morales. Who's the Legend in Casa, Campbell and JuanD's resume???

David D lost to Kendall Holt, but that was at the Higher weights at 140 by Early stoppage by the Ref. Who Koed Campbell???? A 130 pounder, light hitting Peden who was scholled by MAB??? Casa has a Case but beating Chico who's not really a Legend and couple with his lost to Sta Cruz in not good enough to be called a Legend.

For Me David D, Campbell, JuanD and the Old Casa are on the same Level.. a few steps below Pac's Legendary status. Saying Pac just pick the easy one is a wrong statement. Why do you think Pac wants Hatton next??? Coz it's a Bigger Challenge than any 135 pounder opponents.

[Boom_Boom]

anyone want to do a week off bet from the forum that this thing does atleast 250,000 buys.

ill take the over

[kg0208]

I'm not overrating David D. What I'm trying to say is that David D is not a Bum and will be a Good 1st fight at 135. This also the reason why I want Pac to jump on Hatton the next fight. Coz Pac is already a Legend and he needs to fight guys who is considered a Legend or already Beat a Legend. At Least David D already beat one in Morales. Who's the Legend in Casa, Campbell and JuanD's resume???

David D lost to Kendall Holt, but that was at the Higher weights at 140 by Early stoppage by the Ref. Who Koed Campbell???? A 130 pounder, light hitting Peden who was scholled by MAB??? Casa has a Case but beating Chico who's not really a Legend and couple with his lost to Sta Cruz in not good enough to be called a Legend.

For Me David D, Campbell, JuanD and the Old Casa are on the same Level.. a few steps below Pac's Legendary status. Saying Pac just pick the easy one is a wrong statement. Why do you think Pac wants Hatton next??? Coz it's a Bigger Challenge than any 135 pounder opponents.
Well that's the main problem with your argument. You don't judge fighters well because you don't use consistant criteria or opinions. Just convenient reasoning to make your favorite fighters look good. You leave out anything that would invalidate your opinion even if its the exact same scenario.

One: In one fell swoop you point out that David Diaz is on the level of Old Casa, insinuating that Casa's age plays a factor, since clearly his resume is less impressive than Casa. But earlier you point out that David Diaz is worthy because he beat a legend in Morales, again trying to elevate Diaz, but now no longer taking into account that Diaz beat an old Morales. So Casa is dropped a notch due to his age, but Morales didn't because you need to point to it as a good win for Diaz.....convenient as usual.

Two: You mention Casamayor's "loss" to Santa Cruz. This of course means you are deciding for yourself who you think won or lost based on your own opinion, which as I just pointed out, is inconsistant in merit. Again proving my point by not pointing out that many think David Diaz lost to Morales. You conveniently leave things like this out when making your points.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Three: Pointing out someone losing by KO as invalidation to their ability isn't smart....you must consider their entire body of work in context. Especially when you constantly make excuses for Pacquiao being KO'd 2 times, by average fighters. You also point out that Peden was "light hitting" to take credit from Campbell because he was stopped by him, but don't point out that Holt has a lower KO percentage than Peden does, because it hurts your case for Diaz.

We all know that Diaz is not on the same level as the other 3 fighters. His ability and his resume reflect this. I am disappointed, thought not surprised, at your spinning him like he is.

[PH|LLA]

I think David Diaz would beat Casamayor, who imo is ripe for the picking (this is coming from someone who bet on Casa to beat Katsidis). Katsidis was really garbage. Diaz is not very good but shot as Casa is, Diaz is better right now.

I'm not saying this just to hype Pac if he wins. Obviously there are tougher challenges at 135 than David Diaz, but imo Casa is not one of them

[kg0208]

btw I think David Diaz would beat Casamayor, who imo is ripe for the picking (this is coming from someone who bet on Casa to beat Katsidis). Katsidis was really garbage. Diaz is not very good but shot as Casa is, Diaz is better right now.
Diaz would be outboxed if they fought tomorrow IMO. He is simply a workrate guy with slow feet and average power. He is also too easy to hit and open for counters. Campbell would beat both Diaz and Casamayor. Santa Cruz would beat Diaz if they fought again. Juan and Julio Diaz both beat D. Diaz IMO.

Pacquiao should beat him clearly. If he doesn't, we will have to revisit his status at 135. Not Diaz's, but Pacquiao's.

I know you're not hyping Pacquiao. Not your m.o.. You are not painting Diaz as a top level fighter at his weight class.

[PH|LLA]

Diaz would be outboxed if they fought tomorrow IMO. He is simply a workrate guy with slow feet and average power. He is also too easy to hit and open for counters. Campbell would beat both Diaz and Casamayor. Santa Cruz would beat Diaz if they fought again. Juan and Julio Diaz both beat D. Diaz IMO.

Pacquiao should beat him clearly. If he doesn't, we will have to revisit his status at 135. Not Diaz's, but Pacquiao's.

I know you're not hyping Pacquiao. Not your m.o.. You are not painting Diaz as a top level fighter at his weight class.
David Diaz is easily top10

not an top level fighter but a good test at 135, especially considering that its only 3 months since Pac's last fight.

Casa right now is shot to shit. it will probably show in his next fight

[kg0208]

David Diaz is easily top10

not an top level fighter but a good test at 135, especially considering that its only 3 months since Pac's last fight.

Casa right now is shot to shit. it will probably show in his next fight
He's top 10. But not top 5, certainly not top 3. He is a good test for your first fight at 135 if you're a championship level fighter moving up. No problem with that stance. I don't agree with hyping him as being as good as the other champions or former champions.

Casa IS shot. But he was shot vs Katsidis too....

[PH|LLA]

He's top 10. But not top 5, certainly not top 3. He is a good test for your first fight at 135 if you're a championship level fighter moving up. No problem with that stance. I don't agree with hyping him as being as good as the other champions or former champions.

Casa IS shot. But he was shot vs Katsidis too....
David Diaz is definately better than Katsidis

[kg0208]

David Diaz is definately better than Katsidis
I think Katsidis stops David Diaz. But I agree that Diaz is a better fighter.

[fitzgeraldz]

David Diaz is one of those cases where he is a champion but isn't ranked no where near the top 5 of the division ... I could name a few guys that don't have belts that have more clout than David Diaz.

I'm not sure that this fight w/ the undercard it has can sell anywhere near the number that Pacquiao v Marquez II did and it sure as hell can't generate the same as far as dollars are concerned.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this fight does about 100k buys ... I'm sure that i'm going to buy this fight but I know its only because of Pacquiao and will be disappointed all the way until the main event.

[dangerousity]

I never said Mijares. This was Mijares's coming out fight.
But you have to admit Arce was on his way to superstardom if he wasnt already. I know in Mexico he was doing Reality shows. The people around here always talked about him because he was very entertaining and charismatic on TV.
That night all i remember was "Isnt Pac fighting tonight too? Who is Mijares?"

If you think Arce had nothing to do with those numbers then you are just a Pac hugger and lying to yourself.

People buy fights for main events, thats a fact. It dont make business sense to have 2 main events on 1 card in boxing anymore. I always laugh at the notion that a main event sold cos of the undercard, this is not just on Pac's fights but on anyones, FLoyd, Hatton etc. When a fight is advertised, its the main even that is being advertised and 90% of viewers bought the fight cos of the main event.

You can dispute that all you want but a few people in this thread will be quite embarrassed with their predictions after this fight. I guarantee it.

[Sandmanl337]

People buy fights for main events, thats a fact. It dont make business sense to have 2 main events on 1 card in boxing anymore. I always laugh at the notion that a main event sold cos of the undercard, this is not just on Pac's fights but on anyones, FLoyd, Hatton etc. When a fight is advertised, its the main even that is being advertised and 90% of viewers bought the fight cos of the main event.

You can dispute that all you want but a few people in this thread will be quite embarrassed with their predictions after this fight. I guarantee it.

I've never looked at an undercard to determine whether I'd buy the ppv or not.. If the main event is good and I like who's in it, then it's bought.. I could care less who fought on the undercard, whether it's good or not, but I always buy it for the main event.. I think most people do it too, just like you said..

[PacDbest]

Well that's the main problem with your argument. You don't judge fighters well because you don't use consistant criteria or opinions. Just convenient reasoning to make your favorite fighters look good. You leave out anything that would invalidate your opinion even if its the exact same scenario.

One: In one fell swoop you point out that David Diaz is on the level of Old Casa, insinuating that Casa's age plays a factor, since clearly his resume is less impressive than Casa. But earlier you point out that David Diaz is worthy because he beat a legend in Morales, again trying to elevate Diaz, but now no longer taking into account that Diaz beat an old Morales. So Casa is dropped a notch due to his age, but Morales didn't because you need to point to it as a good win for Diaz.....convenient as usual.

Two: You mention Casamayor's "loss" to Santa Cruz. This of course means you are deciding for yourself who you think won or lost based on your own opinion, which as I just pointed out, is inconsistant in merit. Again proving my point by not pointing out that many think David Diaz lost to Morales. You conveniently leave things like this out when making your points.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Three: Pointing out someone losing by KO as invalidation to their ability isn't smart....you must consider their entire body of work in context. Especially when you constantly make excuses for Pacquiao being KO'd 2 times, by average fighters. You also point out that Peden was "light hitting" to take credit from Campbell because he was stopped by him, but don't point out that Holt has a lower KO percentage than Peden does, because it hurts your case for Diaz.

We all know that Diaz is not on the same level as the other 3 fighters. His ability and his resume reflect this. I am disappointed, thought not surprised, at your spinning him like he is.

I make it simple for you KG. Let's just look at the Current Ring Magazine, this what we called the Bible of Boxing. The Ring rates Casa as the Champ but we already knew he doesn't deserved it.

Rated #1 is Campbell, this guy deserve this position for Owning Juan and taking his 3 Belts but we knew also Campbell is not consistent and could lose his titles in the next fight.

So who's at #2??? It's David Diaz, the guy you're saying is not even in the Top 10. Can you give me you're top 10 and explain to me why at least eight of them are better than David Diaz???

Let's rewind the events just before the David Diaz, Casa and Campbell last fights. Casa was considered Shot because of his showing with Sta Cruz. Campbell was just an opponent for Juan Diaz who was hoping for a Supershowdown with Pac. How many % of ESB smart people picks Juan to win??? David Diaz just Retired Morales in a Close fight.

I've seen David Diaz in Berkeley and I'm routing for him to give Pac a Great Fight. The guy is a Smart guy. I think he will gain more with tha Pac exposure. I pick him to beat Juan Diaz and Campbell. But I pick Casa to outpoint him. A guy who beat Zab in the Olympic trials cannot be called a Bum.

[PacDbest]

I think Katsidis stops David Diaz. But I agree that Diaz is a better fighter.

I'll bet you a week off bet if this fight happens.

[CJLightweight]

I make it simple for you KG. Let's just look at the Current Ring Magazine, this what we called the Bible of Boxing. The Ring rates Casa as the Champ but we already knew he doesn't deserved it.

Rated #1 is Campbell, this guy deserve this position for Owning Juan and taking his 3 Belts but we knew also Campbell is not consistent and could lose his titles in the next fight.

So who's at #2??? It's David Diaz, the guy you're saying is not even in the Top 10. Can you give me you're top 10 and explain to me why at least eight of them are better than David Diaz???

Let's rewind the events just before the David Diaz, Casa and Campbell last fights. Casa was considered Shot because of his showing with Sta Cruz. Campbell was just an opponent for Juan Diaz who was hoping for a Supershowdown with Pac. How many % of ESB smart people picks Juan to win??? David Diaz just Retired Morales in a Close fight.

I've seen David Diaz in Berkeley and I'm routing for him to give Pac a Great Fight. The guy is a Smart guy. I think he will gain more with tha Pac exposure. I pick him to beat Juan Diaz and Campbell. But I pick Casa to outpoint him. A guy who beat Zab in the Olympic trials cannot be called a Bum.

can you please explain to me why diaz almost lost to a shot morales who is a leftover of pacquiao and how he went the distance with montana and look shitty on that fight when montana has a record of 14-3?

you hype diaz but speak none about his recent performances

[PacDbest]

baldy is borderline bumy..

Baldy is a Good Journeyman.:hey

[PacDbest]

can you please explain to me why diaz almost lost to a shot morales who is a leftover of pacquiao and how he went the distance with montana and look shitty on that fight when montana has a record of 14-3?

you hype diaz but speak none about his recent performances

I'm not hyping Diaz. I'm just telling you guys that Casa, Juan D and Campbell is not way better than David D. They are on the same Level. Pac will beat all of these guys, the only fighter Pac will have Problem is a well conditioned Casa.

You know me, Pac vs Hatton or Pac-DLH/PBF is my Hype.

I watch that EM-Diaz twice and David D clearly wins it. D Diaz was not impressive with montano but he clearly won it. BTW Montano's not a Bad fighter. You can't call a guy a bum if he beat 2 Hype prospects in Americo Santos and Dmitri Salita(It's a draw, you know what it means when an opponent got a Draw with a Hyped Prospect). BTW nobody ever stopped Montano yet and D Diaz is not a Knockout puncher to begin with.

[CJLightweight]

I'm not hyping Diaz. I'm just telling you guys that Casa, Juan D and Campbell is not way better than David D. Pac will beat all of these guys, the only fighter Pac will have Problem is a well conditioned Casa.

You know me, Pac vs Hatton or Pac-DLH/PBF is my Hype.

you still haven't answered my question:

can you please explain to me why diaz almost lost to a shot morales who is a leftover of pacquiao and how he went the distance with montana and look shitty on that fight when montana has a record of 14-3?

anyway i'm off..i'll check back after i'm done with my business:hi:

[Ramshall1]

More delusional Pac-sexuals. :roll:

[fitzgeraldz]

I think Pac could knockout a horse ...

[PacDbest]

you still haven't answered my question:

can you please explain to me why diaz almost lost to a shot morales who is a leftover of pacquiao and how he went the distance with montana and look shitty on that fight when montana has a record of 14-3?

anyway i'm off..i'll check back after i'm done with my business:hi:

What does it do to the discussion??? Diaz winning a close fight with a not Prime Legend Morales is better than Casa getting a Gift from not so good Sta Cruz. better than Juan D Losing to Campbell. David Diaz getting TKOed by 140 pounder Holt in REf terms was not as worst as Campbell getting KOed because he got stupid.:yep

[Chert]

this fight will probably do around 250k.

[kg0208]

I make it simple for you KG. Let's just look at the Current Ring Magazine, this what we called the Bible of Boxing. The Ring rates Casa as the Champ but we already knew he doesn't deserved it.

Rated #1 is Campbell, this guy deserve this position for Owning Juan and taking his 3 Belts but we knew also Campbell is not consistent and could lose his titles in the next fight.

So who's at #2??? It's David Diaz, the guy you're saying is not even in the Top 10. Can you give me you're top 10 and explain to me why at least eight of them are better than David Diaz???

Let's rewind the events just before the David Diaz, Casa and Campbell last fights. Casa was considered Shot because of his showing with Sta Cruz. Campbell was just an opponent for Juan Diaz who was hoping for a Supershowdown with Pac. How many % of ESB smart people picks Juan to win??? David Diaz just Retired Morales in a Close fight.

I've seen David Diaz in Berkeley and I'm routing for him to give Pac a Great Fight. The guy is a Smart guy. I think he will gain more with tha Pac exposure. I pick him to beat Juan Diaz and Campbell. But I pick Casa to outpoint him. A guy who beat Zab in the Olympic trials cannot be called a Bum.

One: Never said Diaz wasn't top 10 (I actually agreed that he was). I said he wasn't top 5. So right off the bat, you're wrong.

Two: You are overstating Campbell's inconsistancy. Even on his bad nights, he is more talented than David Diaz. The issue here is that you think David Diaz is as good a fighter as the other champions and former champs. He isn't. And he has never proven so in the ring.

Three: You can't point out Diaz's Ring rating to boost your argument, and in the same breath diss Ring's other rankings and the fighters ahead of Diaz.

Four: Diaz didn't retire Morales. That was simply his last fight. Don't say such ignorant things.

Five: Campbell was never just an opponent for Diaz. Everyone knew he was a live underdog. And speaking of which, your condescending "ESB smart people" comment didn't go unnoticed. YOU picked Juan Diaz in that fight as well.

Lastly, I never called David Diaz a bum. And umm....amateur boxing is very very different than pro boxing. Diaz beat Judah cuz he throws a ton of punches and that leads to scoring in their system. Abdulaev beat Cotto in the Am's. Cotto KO'd him in the pro's. Bringing it up wasn't even relevant.

Diaz is an average to below average champion, a good contender level fighter. That's all. He is a good test to see how Pacquiao handles 135 but that's it.

[kg0208]

What does it do to the discussion??? Diaz winning a close fight with a not Prime Legend Morales is better than Casa getting a Gift from not so good Sta Cruz. better than Juan D Losing to Campbell. David Diaz getting TKOed by 140 pounder Holt in REf terms was not as worst as Campbell getting KOed because he got stupid.:yep

Anytime you stack up wins against losses, the win has a good shot at coming out on top.

However, his Morales win is not better than ANY of the other fighters top wins. Nice try though.....kinda transparent, but I expected less.

[batang kanto]

i think this would do good in the PPV, better than pac-solis. promotion-wise, manny and david diaz has been going around to alot of places, something pac does rarely before unfinished business. and david diaz speaks english, has quite a following in Chicago. pac on the other hand had major exposure due to the marquez bout. newspapers and dailies around US, even the Sports Illustrated which normally doesn't give a fuck about boxing nowadays, followed his last fight. i think that could make casual fans check him out as how he'd be doing at the new weight class.

[Morrissey]

i think this would do good in the PPV, better than pac-solis. promotion-wise, manny and david diaz has been going around to alot of places, something pac does rarely before unfinished business. and david diaz speaks english, has quite a following in Chicago. pac on the other hand had major exposure due to the marquez bout. newspapers and dailies around US, even the Sports Illustrated which normally doesn't give a fuck about boxing nowadays, followed his last fight. i think that could make casual fans check him out as how he'd be doing at the new weight class.

I am curious on how many sentences they wrote about him.:yep

But you are right, SI does't give a flying fuck about these lower weights boxers nowadays.

[Scar]

It'll do OK, but I won't buy it. And I bought Pac/Larios a couple years back, if that tells you anything.

Manny's best days are behind him, IMO, and Diaz is not a legitimate champion at 135.

You really think Manny's best days are behind him?

[CJLightweight]

What does it do to the discussion??? Diaz winning a close fight with a not Prime Legend Morales is better than Casa getting a Gift from not so good Sta Cruz. better than Juan D Losing to Campbell. David Diaz getting TKOed by 140 pounder Holt in REf terms was not as worst as Campbell getting KOed because he got stupid.:yep

just got back..:yep

diaz didn't win in my eyes, if you would make a poll here at ESB i believe or many believe morales won that fight.

And how about montana? how come you never mentioned him? Ramon Montana was some bum with a record of 14-3(look it up in boxrec). Care to explain that?

correction about montano's record..it is 15-4-2 prior to the diaz fight, now it is 15-5-2

[CJLightweight]

What does it do to the discussion??? Diaz winning a close fight with a not Prime Legend Morales is better than Casa getting a Gift from not so good Sta Cruz. better than Juan D Losing to Campbell. David Diaz getting TKOed by 140 pounder Holt in REf terms was not as worst as Campbell getting KOed because he got stupid.:yep

you wanna know what it adds to the discussion? i was simply asking you a question, its not that hard to answer, you can just say that you can't answer the question or don't know the answer to the question if you don't like..

btw have you seen diaz-sta. cruz fight? Because diaz was getting schooled and sta. cruz was ahead on the cards prior to the stoppage..so disagree that sta. cruz is not a good fighter, i'll brand him as a decent fighter.

[hellblazer]

no, but it would surpass the Pacquiao-Solis fight :hey

[PacDbest]

just got back..:yep

diaz didn't win in my eyes, if you would make a poll here at ESB i believe or many believe morales won that fight.

And how about montana? how come you never mentioned him? Ramon Montana was some bum with a record of 14-3(look it up in boxrec). Care to explain that?

correction about montano's record..it is 15-4-2 prior to the diaz fight, now it is 15-5-2

Go back I already said, Montano beat Hot Prospects Americo Santos and a Draw with Dmitri Salita(A draw with Hot Prospect I considered a win) and never been Koed. He's a Tough fighter despite the 4 loses.

[PacDbest]

you wanna know what it adds to the discussion? i was simply asking you a question, its not that hard to answer, you can just say that you can't answer the question or don't know the answer to the question if you don't like..

btw have you seen diaz-sta. cruz fight? Because diaz was getting schooled and sta. cruz was ahead on the cards prior to the stoppage..so disagree that sta. cruz is not a good fighter, i'll brand him as a decent fighter.

I've seen Sta Cruz -Diaz. And I've seen Sta Cruz also with Trejo fight. He's glassy chin and D Diaz capitalize on it. Pac was behind also with the sasakul fight and yet that was considered as a Great win. Who actually beat D Diaz??? Only one guy, 140 pounder top 10 Holt.

Who beat Casa & Campbell??? How they were beaten??? How big were the guys who beat them???

[CJLightweight]

I've seen Sta Cruz -Diaz. And I've seen Sta Cruz also with Trejo fight. He's glassy chin and D Diaz capitalize on it. Pac was behind also with the sasakul fight and yet that was considered as a Great win. Who actually beat D Diaz??? Only one guy, 140 pounder top 10 Holt.

Who beat Casa & Campbell??? How they were beaten??? How big were the guys who beat them???

huh? whats with all the questions:rofl relax.. i never hype casa or campbell, i am not discrediting pac here nor his fight with diaz, i honestly think its a good test to see if pac would do against a mid level fighter at a higher weight. Its just the hype and claims on diaz is way overboard.

Diaz may have only lost to holt, but look at his wins, his best win was against sta. cruz, theres none on his wins to take note of(and don't say morales because you know how he was when he fought diaz)

to make it simple, david diaz has wins over cans except sta. cruz and a shot morales

[CJLightweight]

Go back I already said, Montano beat Hot Prospects Americo Santos and a Draw with Dmitri Salita(A draw with Hot Prospect I considered a win) and never been Koed. He's a Tough fighter despite the 4 loses.

tnx for answering my question:yep

he's a tough fighter yeah, but still diaz should have KOed him as he was a champ. His record is horrible but i do agree he is tough

[fitzgeraldz]

I see this fight doing 100k buys ... not bad but not good ... this is an excuse for TopRank to showcase fighters that wouldn't normally get the nod by HBO to fight.

Tye Fields would never be on anything besides versus ... I know that he's fighting on the undercard of this PPV but he's a side show ...

Luevano v Santiago should be on B.A.D ...

Humberto Soto bombed his chance at anything getting shut out by Guzman ...

As much as I think Pac's a star ... this fight isn't going to generate much ... you either need another big name besides Pac in the main event or you need a top notch undercard.

100k buys ... its sure as hell not going to reach 200k

[kg0208]

I've seen Sta Cruz -Diaz. And I've seen Sta Cruz also with Trejo fight. He's glassy chin and D Diaz capitalize on it. Pac was behind also with the sasakul fight and yet that was considered as a Great win. Who actually beat D Diaz??? Only one guy, 140 pounder top 10 Holt.

Who beat Casa & Campbell??? How they were beaten??? How big were the guys who beat them???

Silly questions. Losing to a bigger fighter in your natural weight class is not better than a smaller fighter losing to a small fighter in their natural weight class. It depends on the fighters involved.

Are you going to tell me that Pacquiao's loss to Morales at 130 is worse than Diaz's loss to Holt because Holt was bigger?

Most of Casamayor's losses are by SD to world champions....again, a silly question. All 3 fighters he lost to were better than Holt.

[PacDbest]

Silly questions. Losing to a bigger fighter in your natural weight class is not better than a smaller fighter losing to a small fighter in their natural weight class. It depends on the fighters involved.

Are you going to tell me that Pacquiao's loss to Morales at 130 is worse than Diaz's loss to Holt because Holt was bigger?

Most of Casamayor's losses are by SD to world champions....again, a silly question. All 3 fighters he lost to were better than Holt.

Why are you comparing Pac with Diaz. Pac already proved his superiotiry over EM. The cut is the Factor in that 1st fight close pt loss.

Pac is in another level. It's not david Diaz nor Holt level. I'm comparing Diaz only to other 135 Belt holders. If we are going to look who's the tougher fight for Pac at 135, who will be competitive There's really no definite answer coz the 2 tough proven fighter in Castillo and Chico already left 135. Juan Diaz almost got to that level but Campbell exposed him. Campbell's chin was already exposed. Casa already shown he's aged. D Diaz is limited but proven he's tough. So for me either it's Juan, David, Campbell or Casa, it's all very winnable fight for Pac.

This fight it's about the projected PPV # and any fight for Pac with any one of these top Lightweights will sell. D Diaz in No Solis, he's not as small as Larios, He's a US Olympian, He beat Zab Judah, He beat Morales, he can't be there by accident, he's supposed to be beaten by EM and Sta cruz but he proved he's tough.

This is an HBO show, there will be a countdown show, They tour cities, New weight Class for pac, Both are WBC Champion, we wonder if Pac's power will move up with him, Both are brawler, we don't expect running(as you would expect if it's with casa or Guzzy), There's the Pac-Hatton buzz next, The Pac-DLH buzz, D Diaz is a Mex-Am, Chicago a Big City will be hyped and will contribute to the PPV, Judah-Mosley was cancelled, PPV buyers has money to spend, Pac just came from a Great Fight with JMM, DavidD can speak English. This will sell no lower than 350K and will not surprised if hit more than 400K.

[batang kanto]

Originally Posted by RealSpittsbetter than being a dlh tranny that thinks he can beat mayweather in the rematch.

i'm just saying erik wasnt 100% washed against diaz.

Agree, morales looks completely shot against pac due to the weight-drain. plus pac was on all-out attack mode with morales in the third fight with no pacing at all.
at the diaz fight, that was morales' second bout at 135 and was stronger because he didn't have to lose much weight. anyone who says he was 100% shot at the fight is having delusions. his skills were undeniable and still punches hard. the only trouble is he was getting tagged with big punches from diaz who was on all pressure over him.

[batang kanto]

Originally Posted by Morrissey
I am curious on how many sentences they wrote about him.:yep

But you are right, SI does't give a flying fuck about these lower weights boxers nowadays.

They made an article or two. This is considerable enough knowing SI would only write about boxing occassionally to compare it with MMA and say its a dying sport, or that this sick publication would include dead race horses in its obituary for deceased athletes and then completely ignores diego corrales:bart

[batang kanto]

Originally Posted by RealSpitts
:good i agree, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB!!!!!!!!!!!




Who's the noob now? you're talking to a journeyman:deal

[kg0208]

Why are you comparing Pac with Diaz. Pac already proved his superiotiry over EM. The cut is the Factor in that 1st fight close pt loss.

Pac is in another level. It's not david Diaz nor Holt level. I'm comparing Diaz only to other 135 Belt holders. If we are going to look who's the tougher fight for Pac at 135, who will be competitive There's really no definite answer coz the 2 tough proven fighter in Castillo and Chico already left 135. Juan Diaz almost got to that level but Campbell exposed him. Campbell's chin was already exposed. Casa already shown he's aged. D Diaz is limited but proven he's tough. So for me either it's Juan, David, Campbell or Casa, it's all very winnable fight for Pac.

This fight it's about the projected PPV # and any fight for Pac with any one of these top Lightweights will sell. D Diaz in No Solis, he's not as small as Larios, He's a US Olympian, He beat Zab Judah, He beat Morales, he can't be there by accident, he's supposed to be beaten by EM and Sta cruz but he proved he's tough.

This is an HBO show, there will be a countdown show, They tour cities, New weight Class for pac, Both are WBC Champion, we wonder if Pac's power will move up with him, Both are brawler, we don't expect running(as you would expect if it's with casa or Guzzy), There's the Pac-Hatton buzz next, The Pac-DLH buzz, D Diaz is a Mex-Am, Chicago a Big City will be hyped and will contribute to the PPV, Judah-Mosley was cancelled, PPV buyers has money to spend, Pac just came from a Great Fight with JMM, DavidD can speak English. This will sell no lower than 350K and will not surprised if hit more than 400K.
I made the same comparisons you did. You said it was about the size of the fighters and kept pointing out Holt being a 140lb fighter. If it was about level of fighter, you would have never compared Diaz's loss to Holt to Casamayor's losses to Corrales, Castillo, and Freitas, three world champions and 2 Future HoF's. You only brought up "level" because you realized your previous argument had been shot all to hell.

Your last two paragraphs have nothing to do with my post.

[PacDbest]

I made the same comparisons you did. You said it was about the size of the fighters and kept pointing out Holt being a 140lb fighter. If it was about level of fighter, you would have never compared Diaz's loss to Holt to Casamayor's losses to Corrales, Castillo, and Freitas, three world champions and 2 Future HoF's. You only brought up "level" because you realized your previous argument had been shot all to hell.

Your last two paragraphs have nothing to do with my post.

Whatever you say... this fight will sell more than 350K. Pac's now the #1 P4P with the PBF retirement. P4P #1 and the Most exciting fighter, his next fight will sell against a Top 3 Lightweight in Diaz.

[El Matador]

The fight will do exactly 248,348 buys. Mark my words.

[kg0208]

Whatever you say... this fight will sell more than 350K. Pac's now the #1 P4P with the PBF retirement. P4P #1 and the Most exciting fighter, his next fight will sell against a Top 3 Lightweight in Diaz.

I don't care.

[PacDbest]

I don't care.

You don't care??? Why are you posting in this thread?? What's the topic here again???

[kg0208]

You don't care??? Why are you posting in this thread?? What's the topic here again???
You go into threads all the time and start posting about Pacquiao when he has nothing to do with the thread whatsoever. And our particular discussion was centered around your inconsistant logic. Many threads have sub-threads within them and sub topics. I am sure you're bright enough to realize that.

I could care less how much money or how many buys any fighter does.

[CJLightweight]

You don't care??? Why are you posting in this thread?? What's the topic here again???

the reason i also posted in this thread is because of the sub-topics you created. Campbell, holt, casamayor, etc. has nothing to do with this thread either but you kept on mentioning them and yes they are way better than diaz. period no more arguments

[Silvermags]

the reason i also posted in this thread is because of the sub-topics you created. Campbell, holt, casamayor, etc. has nothing to do with this thread either but you kept on mentioning them and yes they are way better than diaz. period no more arguments

I thought the pacDbest vs Kg word war will never end!
Anyway, discussion is getting awful coz it's nothig to do with topic

PEACE to both of you guys! :good

[CJLightweight]

I thought the pacDbest vs Kg word war will never end!
Anyway, discussion is getting awful coz it's nothig to do with topic

PEACE to both of you guys! :good

kg was also a pacfan same as us. The only difference is we are not that delusional and we view things on a reality basis so we don't lose credibility.

I prefer things that lets just hope pac all the best for his fights. peace:rasta

[I_Neutral]

*******ing this bitch.

[fitzgeraldz]

The closer the fight comes ... the more i'm thinking that its not going to produce big numbers ... I don't know other than watching Pac that its worth spending $50 on ...

[SweetScience]

NO! Reason is because everyone is expecting this to be a walk in the park for Pac.

[Chert]

i dunno if this fight is going to be exactly a "walk-in-the-park" for pac. we have to remember that this is actually pac's very first fight @135. we don't know if he can still be able to carry his speed and power into this weight class. and i don't think that he's fully focused on this fight with all the talk of a possible hatton or dlh fight after this.

[fitzgeraldz]

I'm guessing 100k buys ... no one cares about Diaz and no one cares about this paper title.

I don't know if its going to be a walk in the park, but die hard fans aren't going to be anticipating this match up.

[Chert]

i'm guessing 200-250k... pac does have large fan base and this fight will be a guaranteed brawl and slugfest which will probably end in an exciting KO. boxing fans will always watch exciting and entertaining fights especially now that many are getting more interested in pac since he's the new p4p king.

[TommyV]

Pacman's one of the biggest draws in boxing so it should sell okay, especially as he's stepping up and attempting to become a 4 weight world champion.

[fitzgeraldz]

I haven't seen much promotion for the fight ... and its around the corner ... probably because of the michigan market ... but I would expect to see a better promotion of this fight.

I haven't seen anything about a press tour or posters ... a count down ... nothing.

[Chert]

Pacman's one of the biggest draws in boxing so it should sell okay, especially as he's stepping up and attempting to become a 4 weight world champion.
actually, 5-weight... if we consider the ring belt/lineal title @126. that's why pac sometimes calls this fight the "Drive for Five"...

[TommyV]

actually, 5-weight... if we consider the right belt/lineal title @126. that's why pac sometimes calls this fight the "Drive for Five"...

This was after the Barrera fight wasn't it?

[Chert]

This was after the Barrera fight wasn't it?
yep. pac-barrera 1. pac got mab's ring belt and lineal title.

[PacDbest]

kg was also a pacfan same as us. The only difference is we are not that delusional and we view things on a reality basis so we don't lose credibility.

I prefer things that lets just hope pac all the best for his fights. peace:rasta

I don't call myself a delusional. I just have a better imagination and I see things better than you young guys. All talks of Pac vs DLH, Hatton & PBF seems impossible for a lot of you guys here, but I saw it way ahead of you guys, even way ahead of most Boxing scribes. Now it's near reality, actually there's too much talk going on and it it's almost a sure thing because all Parties are interested.

That brought us back to PPV numbers. Talks of Pac vs Hatton/DLH was brought up around Dec 2007, I think this helps on the buys of Pac-JMM PPV, it helps because of the hype. For this Pac-Diaz fight, most of the talk is about Pac-Hatton/DLH next after Diaz. Hatton & DLH speaks their mind already about that Matchup. Hatton fans and DLH fans will be intrigue about this Pacquiao, some of them will check this Pacman, the recently crowned P4P king, to see what really this guy bring. I'm projecting more than 350K for sure, or maybe more than 400K for this fight.

[divac]

I don't call myself a delusional. I just have a better imagination and I see things better than you young guys. All talks of Pac vs DLH, Hatton & PBF seems impossible for a lot of you guys here, but I saw it way ahead of you guys, even way ahead of most Boxing scribes. Now it's near reality, actually there's too much talk going on and it it's almost a sure thing because all Parties are interested.

That brought us back to PPV numbers. Talks of Pac vs Hatton/DLH was brought up around Dec 2007, I think this helps on the buys of Pac-JMM PPV, it helps because of the hype. For this Pac-Diaz fight, most of the talk is about Pac-Hatton/DLH next after Diaz. Hatton & DLH speaks their mind already about that Matchup. Hatton fans and DLH fans will be intrigue about this Pacquiao, some of them will check this Pacman, the recently crowned P4P king, to see what really this guy bring. I'm projecting more than 350K for sure, or maybe more than 400K for this fight.

I will definitely give you your props for being correct and Pac his props for being a legit draw if his coming fight with Diaz does anywhere close to the numbers you're projecting.

As I said earlier in the thread, I just dont see it, without a good undercard as Pac has had in his fights with Solis and Larios, where those fights did about 225K with the help of Chavez Jr. and Acre, I think this coming Pac card is going to be a complete flop.

I dont know where I read in the internet, but Arum is already blaming the economy and high gas prices here in the US. for ticket sales being slow for this Pac-Diaz card, wait ti'll he gets a hold of the PPV numbers!:yep

[Farmboxer]

I just re-checked the PPV cost on Dish Net, it's $59.95, so I doubt if that fight will make record profits, esp. not in Bush's economy. Gas is going up to $5.00 per gal and that is just the beginning.

[fitzgeraldz]

after reading that the fight will be 59.95 i'm sure that this will hurt the PPV numbers ... i'm not sure that this fight will do even 100k buys.

I agree with Farmboxer ... with gas prices the way they are if would have to be a helluva fight card to have people pay their hard earned cash on a PPV fight.

The number's went down dramatically with price on the PPV ...

[4Rounder]

With slow seat sales for this fight, high ppv price, unattractive undercard, a main event set up for Pacquiao to win, and the promoter already making excuses for the poor sales, this event looks destined to flop.

There arent even reports of HBO making a countdown show, we gotta wait and see if it gets played after the Berto fight.

Oh PacD, your hopes are just set too high.

[4Rounder]

I do want this fight to flop, but not because of Pacquiao, he will get paid anyway, just so that Bob Arum thinks twice about stealing people's hard earned money for crap.

[CJLightweight]

I do want this fight to flop, but not because of Pacquiao, he will get paid anyway, just so that Bob Arum thinks twice about stealing people's hard earned money for crap.

i think thats a bit too harsh on arum:yep i mean he's the guy who paved the career of oscar, floyd and many others. Now he is doing a good job with developing future young stars, cotto,pavlik,juanma,jcc jr.. He knows the game/business very well rather than GBP

[divac]

I do want this fight to flop, but not because of Pacquiao, he will get paid anyway, just so that Bob Arum thinks twice about stealing people's hard earned money for crap.

I hear you my friend.

I have mad respect for Manny Pacquiao, but I do feel that Arum needs a mad punch in the mouth that he thinks he can sell off matching Paquiao up with the least regarded lightweight paper champ David Diaz and get PPV sales without as much as a strong undercard.:nono

Arum I feel is insulting the intelligence of those that do buy boxing PPV's.

I've got to think that Arum wanted to ride the PPV sales of Pac's fight with JMM, and think that he could do something in the proximity for this fight with Diaz.
It goes to show just how Arum viewed JMM as an attraction when he had him under his promotion, and the reason why he never went out of his way to get him big fights.

I'll be honest, for Arum's utter disrespect for team JMM, this poster will be one that is full of joy if this Pac-Diaz card is a complete flop.
The less buys, the more my joy.

My wish is for this fight to prove that even an entertaining fighter like Pac, needs a legit opponent to sell a PPV!
It takes two great fighters to sell as many PPV's as the JMM-Pac fight did. Neither Arum, Pac, or Pac fans have ever given JMM at the very least some of the credit for the great PPV buys that the Pac rematch did.

Having said that, as I told PacDbest in an earlier post, my hats off to both Arum and Pac if this fight does anywhere close to what he's predicting!

All indications are right now, that the fight will flop in the PPV sales!
Arum is going to have to do what DLH did with his fight with Forbes, and give away a shitload of tickets!:yep

[divac]

I agree with the undercards. I don't want to see Ty fields and Luevano. They're boring.

They should've put Donaire, AJ banal, Concepcion or Victor Ortiz on it.

But it doesn't matter we still Order it. It's Party time whenever Pac fights.

This fight will still sell. Nobody really cared about undercards in the PPV fight. It's still the main events that's sells. Why it will sell??? This is Pac's 1st fight at Lightweight. No Pinoy ever gets a Lightweight belt. The guys he's fighting has a perfect style for a Great fight. There will be no running. It will all depend also in how they hype the Countdown shows. David Diaz seems to have the personallity and Charisma to capture more audience. He entertained the Pinoy Crowds in Berkeley with his Articulate speeches and sense of Humor.

I expect it to sell no lower that 350K. It could break the 400K mark because Diaz can speak English and him and Pac can really generate mainstream interest with guesting with ESPN, Foxsports and any Nightime talkshows.

Any news if this fight came anywhere close to cracking 350K?

I'm anxious to give PacDbest his props!:D

[CJLightweight]

i think it will only do about 200k same as the larios fight:think

[fitzgeraldz]

Does anyone think that Pac v Diaz did good numbers?

[smoochp]

Does anyone think that Pac v Diaz did good numbers?
Nope alot of people I know didn't even now about it.

[hmi]

With slow seat sales for this fight, high ppv price, unattractive undercard, a main event set up for Pacquiao to win, and the promoter already making excuses for the poor sales, this event looks destined to flop.

There arent even reports of HBO making a countdown show, we gotta wait and see if it gets played after the Berto fight.

Oh PacD, your hopes are just set too high.

Agree with you on all that you said.

[dangerousity]

I think everyone is forgetting that the two PPV's that Manny Pacquiao was involved in that did'nt involve JMM, Morales, or MAB.....in both those PPV's, Pac vs Solis and Pac vs Larios, both those PPV's had not only Acre on them, but imo even more important for the Latino buy, it had Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. on them.

.....both Acre and Chavez have done well enough headlining a PPV all by themselves, that it no longer makes business sense for Arum to burn those guys on a Pac undercard.

In this David Diaz fight, for the first time ever, Pac will be selling that PPV all by his lonesome with no help whatsoever from a Latino name like Chavez or Acre.



I'm not kidding here, I'm being honest. The Pac-Solis fight did about 225k, I say about 100k of that walked the line and ordered it because they would also benefit from seeing Chavez Jr. and Acre.

.....no such thing in Pac vs David Diaz......honestly, I say this fight will do in the range of 150k, and I may be giving Pac the benefit of the doubt, it may be a little bit less.



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl at Pacdbest for predicting that it will do above 350k, the MAB and Morales fights did'nt even do that!:lol: :nut

No chavez or Arce here and it did around 250k buys exceeding both Larios & Solis...bit off from the 150k target you mentioned. Considering the minimal amount of promotion money that went into this from HBO (no countdown, a countdown could have boosted it over 300k), I think thats pretty decent numbers.