Hagler-Trindad at MW

[Longhhorn71]

Trinidad on his best night moves up from
Jr. MW to challenge the Marvelous One.

How long does it go....either way?

[radianttwilight]

Hagler embaresses him, I'm afraid.

His style is all wrong for Trinidad at 160.

Top 3 at the weight chin + his fundamentals were far superior to 160 Trinidad's.

I don't see how Trinidad can win this, actually.

[bladerunner]

if they fought 10 times Tito would get koed ten times.
Hagler is all wrong for Trinidad.

[mr. magoo]

Trinidad was a very durable fighter who was never really stopped in his prime, so I'd say his chances of taking Hagler the distance ranges from fair to reasonable. In addition, he possesed a good amount of handspeed and was a brave fighter on the inside. The problem is, he was tad too brave for his own good, which could prove dangerous for a fighter rising up in weight against Marvin Hagler of all people. Of course, most of Marvin's most notable fights came against men rising in weight including an aging Duran, Thomas Hearns and an inactive Leonard, all of whom troubled or even beat him.

Trinidad's chances of giving Hagler a great fight and even upsetting him are pretty strong in my opinion, but his over zealous bravery could be his undoing. Therefore, I will pick Marvin to take a close decision, perhaps even scoring a knockdown or two along the way.

[CottoDaBodykill]

hagler walks through his shit like mugabi and stops him around 10 or 11

[la-califa]

Hagler is too much for Trinidad,Size,strength,power. Trinidad couldn't keep Hagler off, much like Hearns. Plus Trinidad doesn't seem to carry the punch up to Middleweight. & He feels the punches much more at 160. Trinidad's effectiveness is vastly reduced at the higher weights, which seems odd because he was a fairly large Welterweight.

[mr. magoo]

hagler walks through his shit like mugabi and stops him around 10 or 11

Felix had a chin. Mugabi didn't.

[PhillyPhan69]

B-Hop had humiliated and angered trinidad prior to their fight. Trinidad felt a need to score a KO in order to vindicate himself, look good to his countrymen, and embarass Bernard in return. I know people like to call him a blown up WW, mostly by B-Hop detractors looking to diminish his wins. But Trinidad looked like a MW to me in defeating Vargas and Joppy..he showed a MW chin and even MW power and certainly appears to belong!

I don't think hagler would upset trinidad as much as B-Hop prior to the fight. So I don't think Trinidad would be all hell bent on destroying him, if that plan was not working. I still see hagler winning this fight, but would call it a UD...trinidad continuosly gets sold short!

[la-califa]

B-Hop had humiliated and angered trinidad prior to their fight. Trinidad felt a need to score a KO in order to vindicate himself, look good to his countrymen, and embarass Bernard in return. I know people like to call him a blown up WW, mostly by B-Hop detractors looking to diminish his wins. But Trinidad looked like a MW to me in defeating Vargas and Joppy..he showed a MW chin and even MW power and certainly appears to belong!

I don't think hagler would upset trinidad as much as B-Hop prior to the fight. So I don't think Trinidad would be all hell bent on destroying him, if that plan was not working. I still see hagler winning this fight, but would call it a UD...trinidad continuosly gets sold short! Hagler didn't humiliate his opponents, But he was a very intimidating fighter. His motto was "Destruct & Destroy" If anything Trinidad would be slightly intimidated by Hagler & most likely wouldn't go all out. Trinidad has the boxing tools to last the distance. But it's up to Hagler how hard he wants to press the issue. If hagler attacks like against Hearns, Trinidad falls early. If Hagler waits like against Duran, it will go the distance.

[mr. magoo]

B-Hop had humiliated and angered trinidad prior to their fight. Trinidad felt a need to score a KO in order to vindicate himself, look good to his countrymen, and embarass Bernard in return. I know people like to call him a blown up WW, mostly by B-Hop detractors looking to diminish his wins. But Trinidad looked like a MW to me in defeating Vargas and Joppy..he showed a MW chin and even MW power and certainly appears to belong!

I don't think hagler would upset trinidad as much as B-Hop prior to the fight. So I don't think Trinidad would be all hell bent on destroying him, if that plan was not working. I still see hagler winning this fight, but would call it a UD...trinidad continuosly gets sold short!

Agreed, I think it also pertinant to say that Trinidad was likely past his best against Hopkins, and Longhorn clearly stated that Felix would be in his prime for this fight. I think Tito could go the distance, and take a fair number of rounds in the process. Marvin was one of the best middleweights of all time, but he wasn't invincible, and Trinidad would likely be one of his best opponents.

[gregor]

Trinidad has no chance at all. How? Trading punches with Hagler would be bad idea for anybody, and especially for someone with somewhat suspect chin.

And outboxing... well, Sugar Ray Leonard did it (barely), but it definitely doesn't mean anyone can do it.

[mr. magoo]

=gregor]Trinidad has no chance at all. How? Trading punches with Hagler would be bad idea for anybody, and especially for someone with somewhat suspect chin.


How does a guy who was only stopped once in 45 fights by a late round stoppage to a big puncher have a suspect chin?

[pmfan]

Trinidad has no chance at all. How? Trading punches with Hagler would be bad idea for anybody, and especially for someone with somewhat suspect chin.

And outboxing... well, Sugar Ray Leonard did it (barely), but it definitely doesn't mean anyone can do it.

SRL was a much, much better fighter in every way than Trinidad. There's no comparison. Hagler may have "lost" (I thought he won) to maybe the second greatest welterweight of all time. No shame in that. He would chew up and spit out Trinidad, as would Leonard, Hearns and Duran.

[jc]

Hagler KOs him in 6, not even competitive. Tito was all about his power and strength, well not only does Marvin have a chin of iron but he hits harder and was stronger.

[dpw417]

IMO Hagler would systematically break Trinidad down by 9th rd TKO. Trinidad will fight with alot of heart, but Hagler is too strong and tough.

[birddog]

This fight is a mismatch, Any version of Hagler would finish him inside of 10 rounds (It's about styles, skills and attributes).

I think a better matchup would be the Duran that beat Moore and Barclay vs Tito at 154, Though I think Tito loses to Duran in a great fight at that weight though, assuming Duran shows up motivated.

[roscoe]

Hagler would destroy trinidad. Marv had great boxing skills & would eventually wear tito down. Hagler overall was a far superior fighter to tito. I doubt Tito could of beaten any of the fab 4 of the 80's hagler, leonard, hearns & duran.

[Lampley]

If we are talking about prime versions of each fighter, there's no way that the Leonard fight should enter into the equation. Nor should Hearns or Duran, for that matter, although at least that was closer to Marvin's best.

The 1980-81 Hagler bores into Trinidad, keeps him off-balance and delivers a career-altering beating. Tito would take too much punishment in this fight.

I don't see what Trinidad does to trouble Hagler at all.

[roscoe]

If we were talking prime there would be no need to comment on hagler v tito as prime tito was at 147! But they all fought at 160 & we're successful.

[Ezzard]

Trinidad was not a top MW and would to pretty much any ATG MW and many not so great. His reputation allowed Hopkins to build himself up but Hopkins always knew it was not going to be a difficult job.

Trinidad was a top welter and that's where he should be matched.

This would look like Monzon-Napoles only worse.

[Senya13]

Close decision for Hagler. Trinidad will be competitive, and Hagler will be cautious when he feels Tito's power.

[pmfan]

Close decision for Hagler. Trinidad will be competitive, and Hagler will be cautious when he feels Tito's power.

He was not cautious with Hearns' power. Marvin would walk right through Tito.

[Senya13]

He was totally scared of Briscoe's power (compare it with Monzon and Valdez fights), as well as he didn't like Leonard's sharp punching. Only a fool thinks Halger had a destroyer mentality.

[Ezzard]

It was the body shots that made Hagler back off from Briscoe, that and the fact that Bennie was something of an unmoveable object. I certainly don't think he was scared.

I struggle to think of a MW champion that Trinidad could beat.

[PhillyPhan69]

It was the body shots that made Hagler back off from Briscoe, that and the fact that Bennie was something of an unmoveable object. I certainly don't think he was scared.

I struggle to think of a MW champion that Trinidad could beat.

Joppy?

[Senya13]

Like I said, see Monzon and Valdez vs Briscoe, then compare it with Hagler's fight.

[Ezzard]

Joppy?

Champion rather than glorified challenger, please.

[radianttwilight]

Like I said, see Monzon and Valdez vs Briscoe, then compare it with Hagler's fight.

See Hagler-Hearns and ask yourself if Trinidad punches harder than Hearns.

If we're going to play this game, that is.

[Ezzard]

Like I said, see Monzon and Valdez vs Briscoe, then compare it with Hagler's fight.

I know where you're coming from but even so I don't think it has much bearing on Hagler-Trinidad. Trinidad was never as durable and would very quickly wilt in an extended exchange with Hagler.

Marvin was also quite light for a MW and was not the strongest physically. Briscoe was strong in the clinch...Trinidad is not comparable.

[mcvey]

Felix had a chin. Mugabi didn't.
A sweeping statement,Mugabo was kod3 times ,by Hagler,an atg,a division above him,by Norris and McClle,both very good puynchers,tkod by Thomas and stopped twice at LH when he was 38 and 39,not a china chin,Certainly he wasnt dropped as many times as Trinidad ,and not by people like Kevin Lueshing.

[Senya13]

Against Trinidad he won't have to take chances to win, he'll be happy to outpoint him without making it a war. Trinidad might have not the sturdiest chin out there, but he's durable enough to take anything Hagler has, Marvin didn't hit very hard and his handspeed wasn't fast enough to be catching Tito by surprise for it to end in a KO. No matter how sturdy your chin is, you won't want to take many chances against Trinidad also, he hit hard and sharp enough for that. I'll go so far as to compare his mid-range punching to that of Joe Louis, although not equal, but pretty close nevertheless.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Against Trinidad he won't have to take chances to win, he'll be happy to outpoint him without making it a war. Trinidad might have not the sturdiest chin out there, but he's durable enough to take anything Hagler has, Marvin didn't hit very hard and his handspeed wasn't fast enough to be catching Tito by surprise for it to end in a KO. No matter how sturdy your chin is, you won't want to take many chances against Trinidad also, he hit hard and sharp enough for that. I'll go so far as to compare his mid-range punching to that of Joe Louis, although not equal, but pretty close nevertheless.

Oh Senya, I do believe I've had a similar debate with you before. You are so stubborn. Hagler was no Nigel Benn but he could hit plenty hard enough when he set down on his punches. 52 stoppages from 62 wins, I mean come on ! Hagler was no Sugar Ray Leonard but he definitely had comfortably above average speed, coupled with superb reflexes and timing during his peak years. If Hopkins managed to dominate Tito and, knock him down and out, then Hagler could to.

[Senya13]

Nigel Benn wasn't that hard of a puncher either, I don't think he hit any harder than Hagler, to say the truth (from some 30 or so Benn's fights I've seen). Above average punching power, but not really exceptional. I haven't seen Hagler show anything but average handspeed in all his fights I've seen. Neither have I seen anything special about his reflexes, good, but not exceptional. And he showed his timing against poor boxers mostly.

Hopkins was a better counter-puncher than Hagler, while having about the same punching power as Marvin. He didn't want to take many chances either against Tito, and neither would Hagler when he figured he could outbox him instead.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Nigel Benn wasn't that hard of a puncher either, I don't think he hit any harder than Hagler, to say the truth (from some 30 or so Benn's fights I've seen). Above average punching power, but not really exceptional. I haven't seen Hagler show anything but average handspeed in all his fights I've seen. Neither have I seen anything special about his reflexes, good, but not exceptional. And he showed his timing against poor boxers mostly.

Hopkins was a better counter-puncher than Hagler, while having about the same punching power as Marvin. He didn't want to take many chances either against Tito, and neither would Hagler when he figured he could outbox him instead.

Nigel Benn not that hard of a puncher? Nothing special about Hagler's handspeed, reflexes or timing? Wow !! :smoke

[Samurai]

Nigel Benn wasn't that hard of a puncher either, I don't think he hit any harder than Hagler, to say the truth (from some 30 or so Benn's fights I've seen). Above average punching power, but not really exceptional. I haven't seen Hagler show anything but average handspeed in all his fights I've seen. Neither have I seen anything special about his reflexes, good, but not exceptional. And he showed his timing against poor boxers mostly.

Hopkins was a better counter-puncher than Hagler, while having about the same punching power as Marvin. He didn't want to take many chances either against Tito, and neither would Hagler when he figured he could outbox him instead.

Bhwhahahahahahahaha! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[Thread Stealer]

He was not cautious with Hearns' power. Marvin would walk right through Tito.

That was because Hagler had to fight that way against a tall, lanky, brilliant outside boxer like Tommy.

Trinidad doesn't have those boxing skills like Tommy, but he did prove himself to be a magnet for Wright's right jab. Granted, Tito was probably better in 2001 than 2005, but Hagler's best punch was his jab.

Hagler would outbox Trinidad behind the jab and stop him late.

[Senya13]

Well, tell me how many Benn's fights have you seen? He was a ferocious fighter, but more about quantity than quality.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Well, tell me how many Benn's fights have you seen? He was a ferocious fighter, but more about quantity than quality.

How many? I think all of them...and at least two from actually in the arena. Next question?

[Samurai]

Well, tell me how many Benn's fights have you seen? He was a ferocious fighter, but more about quantity than quality.

I don't know if you're talking to me or the other guy, but anyway, I have 26 of his fights and he is one of the hardest punchers I've seen. Go tell the fighters he fought that he only had 'above average' punching power.

[Senya13]

Ok, next question is tell me a couple of his most impressive clean KO wins, beside the Logan victory. Most of the time he needed several KD's, and was beating the opponent into the ground, rather than requiering one clean punch.

[Ezzard]

Tito, IMO, would end up the same as most of Hagler's challengers... Generally Hagler defended against aggressive boxers who brought their big pay off punch to the party.

When they finally landed it and had a little success they'd open up and this is when they became vulnerable. Tito would be unable to resist (just like most punchers) and after landing one or two of his best, what would come back would be too much for him to eat all at one sitting.

Trinidad wouldn't have beaten Hamsho, Minter or Antuofermo.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Ok, next question is tell me a couple of his most impressive clean KO wins, beside the Logan victory. Most of the time he needed several KD's, and was beating the opponent into the ground, rather than requiering one clean punch.

You're swinging wildly now.....

[J-Dog]

can hardly bring myself to answer the thread due to thinking about few posts back....BENN DIDNT HAVE A DIG....WTF

He could rattle your ancestors down to there socks.....:!:

sorry where were we, oh yes Hagler Trinidad, its nearly as crazy...

Hagler KO.

[fists of fury]

Trinidad was not a top MW and would to pretty much any ATG MW and many not so great. His reputation allowed Hopkins to build himself up but Hopkins always knew it was not going to be a difficult job.



Is that why he spent two years studying Trinidad's style before he even fought him?

[radianttwilight]

Is that why he spent two years studying Trinidad's style before he even fought him?

I don't know if this is true, but it shouldn't subtract from Hopkins' win.

He systematically broke him down in an embarassing fashion and then stopped him. It was one-sided from the start.

[Ezzard]

Is that why he spent two years studying Trinidad's style before he even fought him?

I find that difficult to believe

[fists of fury]

It was reported in a local magazine just after the fight. (Boxing World)
Basically it was a big article on Hop, wherein it said he admitted to studying Trinidad's style years before, as he always knew they would end up meeting one day.

[Hatesrats]

Trindad should have never been a Middleweight.
Jr. Middleweight at the most, IMO

I give Hagler 3 rounds before he dispatches Trinidad.
(Trinidad's Middleweight & Beyond has been a waste of his career)

Welterweight/Jr.Middleweight Trinidad is an ATG.
Middleweight he's a GOOD fighter.

[Ezzard]

It was reported in a local magazine just after the fight. (Boxing World)
Basically it was a big article on Hop, wherein it said he admitted to studying Trinidad's style years before, as he always knew they would end up meeting one day.

Sounds like marketing for the fight to me.

[Ezzard]

Trindad should have never been a Middleweight.
Jr. Middleweight at the most, IMO

I give Hagler 3 rounds before he dispatches Trinidad.
(Trinidad's Middleweight & Beyond has been a waste of his career)

Welterweight/Jr.Middleweight Trinidad is an ATG.
Middleweight he's a GOOD fighter.

Think it might take longer than 3 rounds but other than that I agree

[stevexx28]

I dont say his styles all that bad for him. Sure Hagler's very strong, but tito only lost to skillful boxers with and good jabbing(Bhop, Jones, Winky, De la hoya), anybody who brawled or got close got KO'd.

[Thread Stealer]

I dont say his styles all that bad for him. Sure Hagler's very strong, but tito only lost to skillful boxers with and good jabbing(Bhop, Jones, Winky, De la hoya), anybody who brawled or got close got KO'd.

Hagler was a skillful boxer.

[Thread Stealer]

I'm not too sure about this big size difference. Remember that Tito was making 147 in the day before weigh-in era, and had trouble making the weight. He was a big welterweight who moved up to 154 in 1997, but went back down to chase the big money fights, which he got in 1999.

It was reported in a local magazine just after the fight. (Boxing World)
Basically it was a big article on Hop, wherein it said he admitted to studying Trinidad's style years before, as he always knew they would end up meeting one day.

I get the feeling that Hopkins is the type of guy to study most fighters' styles carefully for a long time, if they are big names near his weight class.

[PaddyD1983]

Nigel Benn wasn't that hard of a puncher...I haven't seen Hagler show anything but average handspeed in all his fights I've seen. Neither have I seen anything special about his reflexes, good, but not exceptional

What?

[stevexx28]

Hagler was a skillful boxer.

ya i know i mean like an out fighter tho.

[Thread Stealer]

ya i know i mean like an out fighter tho.

Yeah, Hagler was a skillful outfighter. He'd probably have a field day with the jab. Trinidad wasn't the best guy when it came to guys using good jabs and lateral movement, his footwork was rather ponderous.

[headhunter]

If anyone picks Trinidad I want the number of there dealer!

[Robbi]

Hagler would have murdered Trinidad inside 5 rounds.

[markedwardscott]

Hagler chops him down in 5.