Marciano vs. Ali

[Marcianothebest]

Could Ali stand the punch power of Marciano and who would've won this epic battle personally I'm a Marciano fan so I'd go for Marciano but tell me what you think

[rekcutnevets]

The heavyweight version of Baldomir vs. Mayweather Jr.

Marciano is greater than Baldomir, and Mayweather hasn't proven himself to be as great as Ali. Their fight just came to mind when I saw the title of this thread. I'll let you decide who plays which role.

[jonesjrp4p1]

ali with ease

[tays001]

marciano i got s to go with marciano

[Slothrop]

I know that Ali is considered to be immortal and invincible on here, but Marciano would be 50/50 in this.

[Dempsey1238]

I think Marciano is a 50 50, I can see Marciano out swarming Ali like the Rock did to Charles(And Fraizer did to Ali in there first historic class) Marciano DOES have the style to trouble Ali, and Ali's speed will cause problems for the Rock. Could go either way imo.

[Dempsey1238]

I think Charles was the better tact boxer than Ali. Ali though great had some many flaws with his style. His speed made up for it. Charles if we take weight out of the reason was a BETTER boxer than Ali. Charles could hit to both the body and hand and had a fine jab, good not great chin, and speed to match. Charles pound for pound has beating more HOFER's than Ali, like Burley, Moore, Walcott and others. Over all I see a good reason in ranking Charles over Ali pound for pound.

[Dempsey1238]

Well at heavyweight Ali beat Foreman, Fraizer, and perhaps Liston, guys that are greats. And great champions. Ali had the bigger fights at heavyweight. But Charles was a better boxer in regards to skill.

[Dempsey1238]

Well they both fought RJJ, Charles would have a major Weight problem vs Ali. Also Charles and Ali never fought, so unlike the RJJ comparsions, we never know What would happen in Charles vs Ali. Perhaps Charles could beat Ali in a series of fights. We never know. Charles was that good.

[Ramon Rojo]

Could Ali stand the punch power of Marciano and who would've won this epic battle personally I'm a Marciano fan so I'd go for Marciano but tell me what you think
Marciano´s power is overrated.

Ali fought bigger punchers with better skills than Marciano.

[Ramon Rojo]

Work rate and tenacity would be the variables that Marciano is throwing at Ali. Personally I think Marciano gets cut to shit, shaken by stinging counters, and stopped in 8.

The last sentence there is wrong, i corrected it.

[Dempsey1238]

Look, I've seen Charles big fights. I know he's better then his record, and I know I'll look like some boxrec ranger here, but no man who lost 25 times beats the GOAT, not giving up weight and size. Don't build Charles into something he isn't.

Spinks lost about 20 and he beat Ali. :rofl

[Dempsey1238]

The cut thing is over rated imo. Marciano was only cut badly in 3 or 4 fights, and one 1 time was it close to stop the fight (Charles 2) Out of 49 fights he was not cut that often.

[Dempsey1238]

nope, Spinks did pretty poorly after he beat Ali.

[fists of fury]

Tough fight for both men. This is one of those true dream matchups.

Marciano was so unorthodox and wild at times I sometimes chuckle as he swings for the fences, but goddamn it this guy was like a pit bull that just came at you non-stop. It was his very unorthodoxy (is there such a word?) that made him hard to nail consistently. Marciano wasn't exactly Pernell Whitaker defensively, but he was deceptively tough to hit consistently.

What's more, Ali lacked the power to keep the Rock off him. I know many think Ali would just dance circles around Marciano and make him look foolish, but I don't think that would be the case. Marciano was pretty good closing the distance, and he often threw punches from strange angles, sometimes leaping at an opponent to land a shot. In close, he'd just be chucking bombs from all directions, to both head and body.
Really, I'm awed at how many power punches he could throw in close. Every one had knockout written on it. His stamina must have been off the charts.

Ali has in his favour almost abnormal toughness. It was surreal how many bodyshots and left hooks to the head Frazier hit him with, and how Ali was able to come back, fighting hard. His accuracy and speed would be a factor, and I think that Marciano's propensity to get sliced open counts heavily against him, because Ali had those slashing jabs and right hands.

I see a to-and-fro battle that is fought at a blistering pace. It could be another FOTC or Thrilla In Manilla. The winner? I would pick Ali - just - but he'd want no part of Marciano again.

[Sonny's jab]

That's not what I meant. Do you realize how dense it is to use that fight as any kind of example? If you think it's a huge accomplishment to beat Ali at that point though then... whatever.

I think Dempsey1238 was actually responding to you using Ezzard Charles' 25 career losses against him. More than half of those losses were when Charles was over-the-hill or completely shot. So your defense of Ali's loss to Leon Spinks could come across a blatant use of double standards.

[Holmes' Jab]

Ali, by decision. Marcianos crude style would potentially give him fits, though.

[Sonny's jab]

Muhammad Ali, even in his brilliant prime, would have a lot of difficulty beating Rocky Marciano.

I see this as a 50-50 fight.
I dont really understand why Marciano's greatness is still questioned by so many to this day.

[Bummy Davis]

I like Marciano by a late strong finish (could be a KO) Ali had trouble with shorter guys but Marciano had the pace to make Ali work, Like Joe Frazier said, Ali could not rope a dope Marciano, Ali staets fast but Marciano picks up the pace quick and Ali has trouble landing the jab without committing him self and getting countered, Rocky finds his way inside in the middle rounds with Ali resting on the ropes and by the 11th Ali tiring and clowning, Marciano continues to punch the arms,body and Rockys hook is landing, theu exchange frquently but Ali is tired and Marciano does not let up...Angelo does not let Ali answer the bell for the 14th round...Marciano TKo 14 Ali

[groove]

I don't think Ali would rope-a-dope. He only did it when he was in decline and older. But most thought doing rope-a-dope against Foreman was suicide. So to say Marciano would win cuz Ali use rope-a-dope is uncertain but he has a much better chance. I think peak Ali would dance and tie him up and not be on the ropes. This is what he did to Frazier in their second fight. Ali didn't have the conditioning to keep it up in their first after coming back from a big lay-off. Ali did well in the early rounds until his lack of conditioning caught up and he was a sitting target on the ropes. Peak Ali never did that - he was always a moving target. Watch the 15th round of the Terrell fight and see him still dancing and throwing combos from all angles.

[Muchmoore]

Ali by decision.

[Dempsey1238]

Charles fought on when he was VERY sick and ill and way past his prime. There was no commsion that would have stop Charles from going on like Ali.

Before the Marciano fights, Charles record was something like 80 and 8 defeats. After the fights, Charles would gain nearly 20 losses.

[Marciano Frazier]

That's not what I meant. Do you realize how dense it is to use that fight as any kind of example? If you think it's a huge accomplishment to beat Ali at that point though then... whatever. Of course you can't reasonably count the Spinks loss against Ali, because Ali was a shot fighter. But the same thing goes for for more than half of Charles' 25 losses. If Ali had kept going after Berbick and fought on with Parkinson's syndrome for the next few years until his win-loss average was worse than Charles' final win-loss average, would Ali no longer be the GOAT? Yes, you are being a boxrec ranger when you claim that Charles couldn't beat Ali because of how many times he lost.

[Street Lethal]

At LHW I pick noone to beat Charles, but at HW I see no way he beats Ali, or quite a few others.

I pick Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins to beat Ezzard Charles at light heavyweight.

[McGrain]

I pick Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivins to beat Ezzard Charles at light heavyweight.

I bet Lloyd Marshall would indeed have a very good chance.

[Bummy Davis]

Of course you can't reasonably count the Spinks loss against Ali, because Ali was a shot fighter. But the same thing goes for for more than half of Charles' 25 losses. If Ali had kept going after Berbick and fought on with Parkinson's syndrome for the next few years until his win-loss average was worse than Charles' final win-loss average, would Ali no longer be the GOAT? Yes, you are being a boxrec ranger when you claim that Charles couldn't beat Ali because of how many times he lost.



:good Very Good Point

[MachineGunMitch]

ALI's too fast he will punish Marciano every time he comes in

[Duodenum]

When I was a kid, I purchased a magazine issue devoted to Marciano's life and career. It included the compulsory speculation of how Rocky would have done against all the other great heavyweights up to the early 1980's. About facing a peak Joe Louis, the statement was something like, "Louis's jab may have sliced up Marciano en route to winning a late stoppage on cuts, but it would have been no cinch." The producers of this issue had Marciano beating all the other HW champions, until they came to Ali. Then, they asserted something remarkable for writers of a memorial publication devoted to Rock:

"Murray Woroner's staged computer fight may have had Rocky winning by knockout, but the Muhammad Ali of the 'float like a butterfly, sting like a bee' era would have carved up Marciano on the way to a late round stoppage on cuts, or a lopsided decision win." (Or words to that effect.)

That assessment has stuck in my mind ever since, as an extraordinarily confident statement for a special issue of that nature. (I've probably got it buried among my archival possessions deep in storage now.) I viewed Woroner's film twice in it's entirety, and the visual of the two of them in the ring together made it hard for me to accept a Marciano kayo as a realistic outcome. (Although I was delighted that was the conclusion depicted in the wake of Rocky's untimely passing.)

Jersey Joe Walcott was beating Marciano pretty handily, and would have finished the task in their first match, had he not had his left eye blinded from a gush of blood jarred loose from a cut of his by a jab he delivered just before Marciano's kayo. (Of course Ali was only cut by Bob Foster.)

Although Ali has personally expressed reservations about whether or not he would have beaten Rocky (perhaps out of respect and affection for his memory), I think we would have seen a result very similar to Ali/Chuvalo I. Marciano definitely goes the distance without any difficulty, but he wouldn't catch Ali enough in 15 rounds to have a real chance at winning. (Nor would Ali have played any games with an opponent of Rocky's caliber.)

I have enormous respect for what Marciano was able to achieve. He made the most of the ability he had. But this a matter of height, reach, mobility, and speed. Over 15 rounds, Ali would get the job done, on his toes all the way through.

[Bummy Davis]

When I was a kid, I purchased a magazine issue devoted to Marciano's life and career. It included the compulsory speculation of how Rocky would have done against all the other great heavyweights up to the early 1980's. About facing a peak Joe Louis, the statement was something like, "Louis's jab may have sliced up Marciano en route to winning a late stoppage on cuts, but it would have been no cinch." The producers of this issue had Marciano beating all the other HW champions, until they came to Ali. Then, they asserted something remarkable for writers of a memorial publication devoted to Rock:

"Murray Woroner's staged computer fight may have had Rocky winning by knockout, but the Muhammad Ali of the 'float like a butterfly, sting like a bee' era would have carved up Marciano on the way to a late round stoppage on cuts, or a lopsided decision win." (Or words to that effect.)

That assessment has stuck in my mind ever since, as an extraordinarily confident statement for a special issue of that nature. (I've probably got it buried among my archival possessions deep in storage now.) I viewed Woroner's film twice in it's entirety, and the visual of the two of them in the ring together made it hard for me to accept a Marciano kayo as a realistic outcome. (Although I was delighted that was the conclusion depicted in the wake of Rocky's untimely passing.)

Jersey Joe Walcott was beating Marciano pretty handily, and would have finished the task in their first match, had he not had his left eye blinded from a gush of blood jarred loose from a cut of his by a jab he delivered just before Marciano's kayo. (Of course Ali was only cut by Bob Foster.)

Although Ali has personally expressed reservations about whether or not he would have beaten Rocky (perhaps out of respect and affection for his memory), I think we would have seen a result very similar to Ali/Chuvalo I. Marciano definitely goes the distance without any difficulty, but he wouldn't catch Ali enough in 15 rounds to have a real chance at winning. (Nor would Ali have played any games with an opponent of Rocky's caliber.)

I have enormous respect for what Marciano was able to achieve. He made the most of the ability he had. But this a matter of height, reach, mobility, and speed. Over 15 rounds, Ali would get the job done, on his toes all the way through.

Big difference in offence comparing Marciano and Chuvalo, George could take It but did not have the punch intake or punching power of Marciano, and Ali was fortunate not to have had to face Walcotts left hook, that may have been a much rougher fight for Ali than we think

[Duodenum]

Big difference in offence comparing Marciano and Chuvalo, George could take It but did not have the punch intake or punching power of Marciano, and Ali was fortunate not to have had to face Walcotts left hook, that may have been a much rougher fight for Ali than we thinkThe problem for Marciano would have been getting to Ali in the first place. Rocky didn't have Joe Frazier's speed in closing. Ali would have known that getting hit by Marciano was to be avoided, regardless of whether or not Rocky connected with a scoring blow. What Chuvalo and Terrell proved was that Ali could successfully evade Marciano over the 15 round distance.

[NickHudson]

The comparison is more than a little misleading. If we are generous and remove the last 4 years from Charles career (during which time he had 12 fights and lost 8) we still have 17 losses and a draw to account for during a 15 year career (1940-1955).

The losses are scattered amply throughout his career, some early (1941, 1942), some mid (1947), some late ('51, 52, 53, 54 etc). There are several instance of back to back losses (e.g 1943 Bivins and Marshall; 1952 Walcott and Layne; 1953 Valdes and Johnson).

Not sure how this can be seen as anywhere near equivalent to Ali who never lost in his prime, and only lost to 2 men in his second coming, and then faltered in the last couple of years with a diagnosed degenerative disease that effects muscular coordination? All in a 20 year pro career, not 15.

Lets be reasonable fellas.

Of course you can't reasonably count the Spinks loss against Ali, because Ali was a shot fighter. But the same thing goes for for more than half of Charles' 25 losses. If Ali had kept going after Berbick and fought on with Parkinson's syndrome for the next few years until his win-loss average was worse than Charles' final win-loss average, would Ali no longer be the GOAT? Yes, you are being a boxrec ranger when you claim that Charles couldn't beat Ali because of how many times he lost.

[Dempsey1238]

Well Charles was robbed vs Johnson. So there has been cases were Charles had a win taking away. Mostly Johnson and Walcott 4. Also 17 losses in a 90 bout run is pretty good over all. Charles was fighting near evey week also, so he was bound to lose here or there.

[Joe E]

The biggest problem Rocky faces is the 13 inch reach dis-advantage.Joe Walcott said Rocky was easy to hit but not to get at with effective punches.Rocky did'nt follow people like Liston did,he worked at angles at times very awkward angles and he could punch with authority from these angles.Check out the Chuvalo fight.George figured out a way to get at Ali,a prime Ali, and so could Rocky.Alis' foot work would be a factor and give Marciano trouble in the earlier rounds but again check the Chuvalo fight.Ali slowed down quite a bit after the 9th.He could not maintain a high level of movement over 15 rds.Would cuts be a factor? Yes.But not a great enough factor to stop the fight or to effect Marciano a great deal.Could Ali pound out a U.D.?Yes.Could Marciano K.O. Ali in the late rds?Yes.It would'nt surprise me to see either man win.I see this as 50/50,although I would'nt bet against Marciano.Thanks.:bbb