Ike Williams

[robert ungurean]

Where does he stand in your list of greatest LW Champs?
Does He make your top 50 P4P?

[Manassa]

Williams doesn't make my top fifty pound-for-pound. He makes my top twenty five.

Williams was a really, really good fighter. If we consider the best of the best to be fighters like Duran, Pep and Robinson, then Williams was only a notch below alongside Napoles, Moore and C. Ortiz. The only footage most people see is the first Beau Jack stoppage, but that wasn't Williams' best performance by any means.

#3 lightweight.

[mcvey]

Where does he stand in your list of greatest LW Champs?
Does He make your top 50 P4P?
No 3 at LW,he makes the top 50 easily and gets into the 30,havent broken it down further

[Street Lethal]

Williams was very good judging by his championship reign.

[Manassa]

Lightweights I'd pick to beat Williams:

Pernell Whitaker
Benny Leonard

Lightweights who would stand a 50/50 chance:

Ken Buchanan
Ismael Laguna
Carlos Ortiz

Best lightweights I favour Williams to beat:

Roberto Duran
Joe Gans
Henry Armstrong
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri

[TBooze]

Where does he stand in your list of greatest LW Champs?
Does He make your top 50 P4P?

#7 and no

10 Sammy Angott
9 Julio Cesar Chavez
8 Bob Montgomery
7 Ike Williams
6 Battling Nelson
5 Joe Gans
4 Pernell Whitaker
3 Henry Armstrong
2 Benny Leonard
1 Roberto Duran

Mentions: Jack McAuliffe, George Lavigne, Frank Erne, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Lou Ambers, Beau Jack, Jimmy Carter, Carlos Ortiz, Ken Buchanan, Esteban DeJesus, Guts Ishimatsu (Ishimatsu Suzuki), Alexis Arguello, Edwin Rosario, Jose Luis Ramirez, Hector Camacho Snr, Oscar de la Hoya, Shane Mosley, Steve Johnson, Jose Luis Castillo and Floyd Mayweather Jr

[Manassa]

TBooze, I think you should seriously consider reviewing your opinion of Battling Nelson, and at the same time researching the careers of Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri and Carlos Ortiz. Not trying to preach, but I think it would make your list more respectable, because at the moment there are some strange picks.

[TBooze]

TBooze, I think you should seriously consider reviewing your opinion of Battling Nelson, and at the same time researching the careers of Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri and Carlos Ortiz. Not trying to preach, but I think it would make your list more respectable, because at the moment there are some strange picks.

I have probably done more research on Ross than any other fighter, I think he was excellent but lacked that something.

Canzoneri was another superb fighter, but was slightly below Ross IMO.

Ortiz... Perhaps because I have seen mostly the tailend of his career I just do not see what people see in him. Again he was a very good fighter, but the Lightweights over the last 125 years or so are darn good.

[mcvey]

Lightweights I'd pick to beat Williams:

Pernell Whitaker
Benny Leonard

Lightweights who would stand a 50/50 chance:

Ken Buchanan
Ismael Laguna
Carlos Ortiz

Best lightweights I favour Williams to beat:

Roberto Duran
Joe Gans
Henry Armstrong
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri
Cant see Laguna.

[Manassa]

Cant see Laguna.

Speed, movement, awkwardness - Williams could beat those cagey boxers, but he wasn't immune to them.

[Robbi]

Speed, movement, awkwardness - Williams could beat those cagey boxers, but he wasn't immune to them.

Glad you appreciate Buchanan's talent. He sure was a great boxer at his peak. One of the best left jabs in the division's history. Buchanan was much better from long range, but fighting inside was not a problem either. Lovely bounce around the ring when he got into rythm. Ring generalship, which was a very strong part of his game, never worked against Duran.

Many people have different opinions about the stoppage at the end of the 13th round. Duran clearly hit Buchanan after the bell, and low. I watched a documentary about Buchanan's career recently, and their is a part which shows a still picture of the punch, and its low alright. Buchanan's said he told the referee, Johnny Lo Bianco, that he was willing to resume fighting. But Bianco already came to the conclusion Buchanan was unable to continue. Thats Buchanan's arguement anyway.

Points being deducted should have been the correct course of action if Buchanan resumed fighting. Not sure Duran being DQ'd would have been justified.

If Buchanan happened to resume fighting, not sure he'd have pulled off the stoppage he needed as Duran was well ahead on the cards when the fight ended.

[Dempsey1238]

Outside of power, Ross was a near perfect boxer, what did he lack?? He was a pound for pound great. I also think Ross cleans Williams clocks imo. Unless Williams can out swarm Ross like Armstrong did, (And Williams was NO were near the swarmer Armstrong was) Ross is going to out point him in a close points victory imo.

[mcvey]

Speed, movement, awkwardness - Williams could beat those cagey boxers, but he wasn't immune to them.
A trained,[I wont say prime] Ortiz schooled Laguna,who had speed but for me lacked substance,Ortiz is somewhat like Williams,well schooled can box and punch ,but not as lethal or as strong as Ike,so Ike beats Laguna ,and by stoppage,unless Laguna runs all night.

[Manassa]

Outside of power, Ross was a near perfect boxer, what did he lack?? He was a pound for pound great. I also think Ross cleans Williams clocks imo. Unless Williams can out swarm Ross like Armstrong did, (And Williams was NO were near the swarmer Armstrong was) Ross is going to out point him in a close points victory imo.

Ross could be led into exchanges and dragged into a brawl, and when that happened, Ross often got wild and left himself open; I see Williams catching him with one too many and taking the decision.

[Dempsey1238]

Ross did not let himself open when thsos brawls, He would fight chest to chest in thsos shots, and hardly give the other guy punching room. Even if Ross does get draw into a brawl, Williams is not going to have much punching room in this regard. When Ross brawl with McLarin, McLarin did not relly have any punching room, same with Canzi.

[robert ungurean]

Thanks for the input thus far.
Unfortunatly there is not very much to read about Ike.
Any links to some good articles about him would be appreciated.
I have found very little on him on the web.

[Street Lethal]

Honestly, I would pick a lot of lightweights to defeat Williams. Duran, Armstrong, Whitaker, Chavez, and Ortiz were better.

[timmers612]

Robbi, interesting comments on Kenny, one of my all time favorites. However several points, Duran couldn't be DQ because both he and Kenny were fighting after the bell rang by several seconds when the low blow landed. Kenny also hadn't the pop in his punches to stop Roberto even if Duran had his hands behind his back. Lastly Kenny didn't hesitate to fight inside I agree and was always brave doing so, but his punches to the body had even less sting. The only time I really saw Kenny hurt someone was the big left hook he caught Laguna with. Still at his best the man could box!

1. Duran 2. Leonard 3. Gans 4.Williams

[mcvey]

Oh dear!